What’s Wrong With American Idol? (and The Voice)
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- čas přidán 16. 04. 2019
- Are shows like American Idol, The Voice and America's Got Talent good for music? Featuring Michael Palmisano from Guitar Gate and Rhett Shull.
Mike Plamisano / mrguitargate
Rhett Shull / rshull07
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Dave Grohl said it best!!! "When I think about kids watching a TV show like American Idol or The Voice , then they think, 'Oh, okay, that's how you become a musician, you stand in line for eight f****** hours with 800 people at a convention center and then you sing your heart out for someone and then they tell you it's not f****** good enough.' Can you imagine?"
"It's destroying the next generation of musicians! Musicians should go to a yard sale and buy an old f****** drum set and get in their garage and just suck. And get their friends to come in and they'll suck, too. And then they'll f******* start playing and they'll have the best time they've ever had in their lives and then all of a sudden they'll become Nirvana. Because that's exactly what happened with Nirvana. Just a bunch of guys that had some s***** old instruments and they got together and started playing some noisy-a** s***, and they became the biggest band in the world. That can happen again! You don't need a f****** computer or the Internet or The Voice or American Idol ."
I love Dave Grohl. Absolutely right.
BEST COMMENT HERE
Daves words are great. Ive read this b4. I just hope to add something here l hope that Dave DOES NOT become the curator of that ole time art form RocknRoll as Lawrence Welk was to big band, standards, tap etc.
Utter rubbish. The world has changed. There's no longer the huge number of small venues for aspiring artists to play in and learn about their craft. There's never been a time when so many can afford to buy the finest musical equipment, but take a look on CZcams at the ever growing number of "bedroom maestros", none of whom could play in a band, let alone write one original hit song.
The music industry's been running on empty for decades.
@@Guitargate This!
Those shows also teach people only to value super loud, energetic, showy styles of singing.
zebextredon exactamundo!
That is definitely a very true point. Unless they had Harry Connick Jr. on as a guest judge. He could even that out a little
What a terrific point! Imagine Elliott Smith, James Taylor or Bob Dylan on these shows.
I don't watch much, but I agree that it seems like a screaming and modulation contest, especially for r&b female singers.
Power singing. I've spent significant time learning how to sing softer after the influence of these shows.
The Voice taught me how great the band musicians are on the show. WOW! Give them their own show!!
I dont know if you remember the show Rockstar INXS and Rockstar Supernova but the house band was crazy good! If I was ever on one of these reality shows I would be thanking the band after every performance.
I used to run a restaurant in NYC where struggling singers waited on tables and sang thru a karaoke system. They were all young and talented and hungry. I noticed that there is tension between raw vocal talent and vocal artistry and phrasing, which seems to come with experience. The kids had athletic vocal cords and belted out songs as powerfully as they could, even when a nuanced performance was called for. The more mature singers showed a somewhat more restrained approach.
I hate singers who can't sing with nuance. It's cloying.
As someone who was a Quarter Finalist on The Voice UK back in 2013, I agree with a lot of things that are said here.
Also, this channel is ace and been subbed for a long while. Peace! x
I’m from the UK and I can neither confirm nor deny if you were on The Voice and that’s probably true of most people from the UK! No offence though.
@@seeteasea5497 Google is your friend, my friend.
Jazz pianist Kenny Warner said in one of his videos that pianist Thelonious Monk wouldn’t be able to win the Thelonious Monk Competition today haha
oh you are the rock singer right ? yes i remember you , you went far man |
I loved you Mitchell, that was a fantastic season, amd Im not a huge fan of yer style, but you were fantastic!
Yer dad was so awesome hope yer fam is well.
Personally loved Mark Henry. Leah Mcfall was robbed. (I still follow Mark amd Leah, amd I thought I followed you as well. Begley was good but she didn't have the best voice...but, well you know. And Ward was, i dunno, you should of been last 4 buds.
❤ from America
People like Jim Croce and Harry Chapin could never win American Idol the don’t have the look the don’t have the Big voice . Great artists don’t set out to become idols they love music and work hard at it and on rare occasions it results in fame . Some Artists like Joni Mitchell had no interest in fame it was about Artistry. An idol by definition is an object of worship in my view that’s not the goal of any true artist .
Marc I totally agree and thanks for this. The word "Idol" speaks for itself.
Hey Mark thanks for the true definition of an idol. That definition actually goes back to biblical times, and was part of paganism. As a young musician coming up in the last generation I used to idolize certain musicians. And then I realized that they are people to. And as I got older and started to research things, I found out many of these people were into drugs, the dark arts, and other things that are not nice. So I decided to have musical heroes( people I look up to, but not model my life after.) And also the most important thing is to be myself.
I don't watch AI because Simon Cowell is a jerk. Furthermore I feel these shows are about drama, and marketability. I might watch 1 episode per season just to see if there's a contestant that I like. Did'nt mean to write a volume, just sharing my thoughts.
Yeah, right on m8
Marc Scordato well said mate!
Marc Scordato sad thing is in respect to the artist you mentioned. Not sure they would get any airplay these days.
As I'm listing to this my mother was watching The Voice and she said I hope this man wins because he takes care of his mother nothing about his singing.
LOL awww mom being mom!
That sucks..tee hee hee..tell the mom to go bake a cake and shut up..
The only good reality competition show I've ever seen is the Great British Baking Show. There's no contrived melodrama or forced conflict. Everyone gets along and supports each other. Some of the people are downright ugly (physically, not internally). The judges are gracious and give constructive feedback (no witty zingers from anybody). They get a task to bake something. They bake it, and whoever does the best job wins. Whoever fails is politely told why they didn't do well, and how they can do better. They say thank you. At the end of the episode, someone is sent home, and the hosts and remaining contestants surround them for a nice group hug. Probably not a coincidence that this is a PBS show that is not beholden to advertisers.
I'm telling you, in the madness we're living in now, it is really comforting to watch people being decent to each other and making pies. I'm a single, 34-year-old mega dude who devotes a lot of time to NFL football and punk rock. And I cannot get enough of the baking show.
I've not seen the Great British Baking Show, but I feel Fool Us has a similar vibe. They never put any of the contestants down and invariably find something positive to say.
You're an odd one that's for sure.
I think we could all use a little more of that.
Someone obviously has a soft spot for puddings and cakes.
and though american idol used to have harsh, rude, and incencere judges, they do deserve credit that the current judges are very kind abd polite to the contestants, and they also have actual musical experience.
lol! that's the cutest thing I've ever read by a "mega dude". I agree, the Great British Baking Show rocks! I haven't seen it lately, but there was one season where some people were creating real works of art! The problem with these vocal competition shows is that they keep telling people to sing their guts out, when in reality the "coaches" don't even do that themselves, plus I can't stand the "zero to hero" angle. It's so contrived. Does everyone have to be pathetic to make it? I don't idolize someone because I feel sorry for them, how patronizing. I'm sure Jimmy Page and Robert Plant didn't start off with a sob story. They were cocky from the get go. Same for The Who, The Stones etc. That's why we like them. The shows are only for the coaches who are trying to become or stay relevant.
In Sweden we have "Melodifestivalen" which is like a 5-6 show long precontest for Eurovision. Half of the contesters are from Idol. The songs are beyond crap and are played on radio all year. So it never ends. Maybe thats why we've had so many angry metal bands so people can vent the frustration.
The angry metal bands have been around far longer than those talent shows, though :P
@@hansfranz8795 yeah, I mean, Meshuggah started in 1987 and they are one of the best bands that Sweden has gave to the world
There's been Talent shows around far longer than angry metal bands. Not as false as the ones being talked about.
As for Eurovision, britain always took the mickey out of it with Terry Wogan and now Graham Norton.
Många av låtarna är skrivna av samma låtskrivare vilket gör att det mesta låter detsamma, skulle nog vara bättre musik om det var mer variation. Men å andra sidan kan ju även rock/metal band skicka in låtar till mello.
metal bands have been in reply to this disneyfication for longer than idol existed because disney and other corporati have been doing it far longer than idol existed. how many mouseketeers went on to pure elevator music careers? how many bands like the monkey's have been shoved down folks' throats without our knowing they were plastic premanufactured bands? how many of the metal bands were metal versions of the monkeys? we'll probably never know.
It's a reality show: some real, some contrived, lots of heavy editing. And it's often more about the judges than the contestants.
Thanks for recapping what they just said in the video.
@@ImberNoctis Thanks for ACTUALLY wasting our time with your trolling.
And they only promote a certain kind of gymnastic voice that can belt out songs with super power and range. Billie Holiday would never make it on American Idol.
Spot on!
@@TheSimonScowl Thanks for wasting your own time capitalising 'actually' as an attempt to legitimise your statement.
Kelly Clarkson has a podcast with Shane McAnally where she talks about what she had to do to get "Because of You" recorded. Basically what was recorded was almost 100% her original writing, but without the other two more popular songwriters getting credit, it would have never been something the label was interested in.
All that said, I still miss The Midnight Special.
That, and Second City’s take off on The Godfather with the meeting of the Dons, Don King, Don Shula, and Don Kirshner.
@@Egilhelmson SCTV in it's entirety, I think. I was in middle and high school at the time. Sometimes, that age can create revisionist history. However, as an adult, I've seen excerpts and clips from The Midnight Special, and I confirmed that I miss it.
Me too!
Loved that show.
Keith Urban comments to a contestant, "Nice use of pentatonics." J.Lo asks, "What's a pentatonic?"
Of course she wouldn't know that. You really think she would learn music theory with an ass like hers?
I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of her being told to pretend like she doesn't know by the director(s) because stereotypes about women (especially attractive ones) being simpleton bimbos who know nothing about anything aren't going to perpetuate themselves.
@@Butts666 that's a good point. I think you're spot on.
Jane Ross Nah, J-lo is an idiot.
JLO got to where she is on her back and knees
Two words: Jennifer Hudson.
She finished 7th on American Idol, losing to the eventual winner Fantasia Barrino. Who was last seen doing concert tours in medium sized cities. Since then, Hudson has gone on to win 38 major awards, including an Oscar, an Emmy, a People's Choice Award and two Grammys. She has appeared in 15 major motion pictures. I'm still amazed that Hudson didn't win Idol.
The real problem with these TV competitions is they aren't about talent. They are about having the best back story to help get the best ratings and the most votes. It seems like everyone needs a tragedy or two, or a close brush with death to help them bond with the viewers.
I know who Jennifer Hudson is but I've never heard of Fantasia Barrino before now.
Strange how those who don’t win tend to go on to do better than the actual winners. I think that is because they don’t get assistance the winner gets and therefore prove themselves to be more driven in order to achieve their own success. The show surely gave them a kickstart, but by not winning it means that they have to capitalise on the place it’s taken them to and persist with their goals. Jennifer Hudson is a perfect example of this, not to mention that her talent was probably recognised by industry promotors.
I find it quite amusing, I can think of competitions in sports, but not in art. Singing is very personal, from the potency and quality of the voice, to the range, style, technique and emotion... is not about who is "best".
@E.A. de Ruiter I cannot imagine a better choice than Jennifer Hudson. She can really sing, and she is a pretty great actress. I'm looking forward to seeing the film.
Well she didn't win, but didn't American Idol's exposure help Hudson get to where she is? I mean the audience is voting for people at the end, and the audience isn't a group of trained musicians - they pick wrong all the time. Still, Hudson had real talent, and isn't is possible the show help her broadcast that talent to the people who could actually help her in her career?
Of the genre, I think “So You Think You Can Dance?” is closest to being an honest talent contest. Sure it had background stories and “interest” characters at the start of each season, by the time things were in swing, you had a contest between genuine talent.
It is SO nice to hear three knowledgeable, candid voices give knowledgeable, candid, insider perspectives on this topic. I am a musician and radio broadcaster, but nowhere in the same league as you guys are. Yet I have met a very few national acts over the years, but mostly regional and local acts. The difference between the levels is quite noticeable, and surprisingly, the higher-up folks I've met have by and large been more humble than a lot of the lower-tier ones, because many of them have an attitude of "somebody robbed me of my chance" or whatever. But you three have been with some very notable artists, and when you say "we see...," I totally believe you all. There is so much more to artistry than sob stories (and believe me, I have a sob story, and have been known to use it on occasion as a way to connect with the audience). I like your idea about showing how these acts have become the artists they now are. So much to say, but these are but a couple of things that stick out to me. Thank you all for posting this!
About ten years ago I participated in the 1st edition of the Voice of Poland. I was 22 years old, didn't know what I wanted, I vowed never to sign up for this kind of program. One day they called me and invited me for a "pre-casting". I was supposed to show up at 9, but I partied the night before, so I got there around noon, hungover as fuck. I sang "My Hero" by the Foo Fighters, a couple days later I got a phone call that I made it to the blind auditions. And when I got there first, I was like "what the hell am I even doing here?". I was listening to people warming up in the toilets and I felt intimidated, because "I would never be able to sing like that". Long story short, I made it to the final round, I got the 3rd place eventually. I never wanted this, I was not the type who wanted to win at all costs. I just didn't care. Whatever happens is going to be great, because I can learn something new. And I guess it paid off :)
I'm not sure if anything was staged, but what I really liked was that the focus was on singing indeed, not on the backstories and the drama. It changed from the 2nd edition on, it's a freaking circus right now.
BUT
I learned A LOT. I met a lot of amazing people, with whom I am friend until this day. I sang back vocals on records of people whom I would never dream meeting. Today I perform live with a famous singer from Poland, we tour a bit. So when people ask me if the program boosted my career, I say "yes and no", because the program itself didn't. Plus, as I said before, I had no idea what I wanted back then, I was a kid who just liked screaming his balls out. But it did help me by meeting great people, making friends with my friends' friends, etc.
Thanks to this I am a bit more confident of myself, I put a few videos on my youtube channel, I can now sing Chris Cornell's songs (there is a vid on my channel, would love to hear your opinion) and just feel good about it :)
Thanks for the videos, Rick, very inspiring and educational!!!
(And sorry for the long comment...)
@@MichaelJamesWood hey, thanks man! I never got a notification about your reply, so sorry for the late response ;)
"And when I got there first, I was like "what the hell am I even doing here?"." You could have sung 'Creep' by Radiohead then.
Not the least, and who ever wins in the end has more to do with marketability and the political willingness to be used by the music industry and its cronies .
You aughta see the contracts, absolutely disgusting.
@@MidnightMechanic Has anyone actually seen a contract?
@@fireflyva100 there are videos on CZcams detailing the reality TV contracts involved
Hey, Illuminati, I've heard a lot of people are looking for you. You should let them know you're safe.
Fear not, my child
I don't know how I missed this video when it was released but I'm so happy hearing you talk about Michael Johns. His 2009 record Hold Back My Heart was so fantastic. Such a tragedy to lose him at such a young age.
I would love to see you do a series called “Who is This?!” where you select a few talented ‘unknowns’ and give them exposure through the Beato channel to rival America’s Got Talent.
Great idea! But also talented guitarists, watching Rick's skill just astounds me and would love to see others.
Foxes and Fossils
Great idea.
all of the annoying aspects of these shows that were brought up in this video are the direct result of the input of one man, Nigel Lythgoe. This is the guy who is in the judges ears during commercial breaks telling them what to say, and what not to say. He is the one who gets to decide which take of a certain performance is used on the air.
yes, they do two performances of each song, and they can be edited together, shown out of sequence, or manufactured to show a worse performance depending on which contestants Nigel wants to push.
I have worked backstage at American Idol and have seen and heard this stuff first hand.
Another aspect of these shows that wasn't in the video is the crowd. There is absolutely nothing authentic about the crowd's reaction to anything that happens in the show. They are hyped up by someone the television audience never sees, and if their reaction to someone is not strong enough, or they didn't all have the same reaction, the show is paused and the audience is asked to give another reaction. It's actually really weird to see large crowds of people do exactly what they are told without hesitation.
American Idol is a farce.
Don’t believe you. Prove it.
@@chuckm1961 go sit in the audience during the taping of an episode and find out for yourself.
@@Chuck-U-Farlie just like the Jerry Springer show. They even cue the crowd when to chant "Jerry Jerry" and when to collectively say "awe" or "boo" or clap 🤦🏼♂️
So these shows are the professional wrestling of the music world!!! LMAO
Recently here in Australia, it was revealed that an artist was approached to be a contestant on The Voice. When he declined the offer, they guaranteed him that he would make it to at least the semi finals. They approached him as he had a good back story.
+Andrew Betinsky. I have the mirror-image story to tell you. I have a friend whose daughter auditioned for Australia's Got Talent. Phenomenal singer, and the producers told her so. Unfortunately, her family unit is happy and secure, she's never had cancer, no major dramas have ever occurred in her life. Therefore, "nothing to see here". Sorry luv, good luck with your life but you can't come on the show.
Andrew Betinsky - The first winner of the The Voice Portugal was a rock guitarist and singer friend of mine called Denis Filipe. His prize was a record deal and the chance to record an album, plus the opportunity to play live at both national and international levels.
Two coaches turned their chairs in the blind auditions but he ended up choosing the coach who is the singer of an iconic Rock band from the 80's and a major figure in the portuguese music scene, with lots of connections in the music industry. Everybody thought Denis wouldn't make it pass the early stages because he chose to sing only Rock songs but he was so good and his coach, Rui Reininho, was always behind him that he made it to the final and won.
The thing here was that, after a certain stage in the competition it was the public who voted who would get through to the next stage and Denis got a lot of support from his friends, family and people who know him, but also from the fans he gathered nationwide with his performances in the show and that way he managed to go through weekend after weekend. Since it was no longer in the hands of the production to decide who would make it til the end, after the final they (the production and the record label) hung him out to dry. He got the trophy and a handful of nothing. :/
@@Module79L Wow! Kind of says it all really.
@@Module79L typical. who could expect anything else from the disneyfiers?
@@NewFalconerRecords - Yup. The record label didn't want to promote a Rock singer, and even worse, one who wrote his own material, because they weren't gonna make the same money as with a Pop singer who's only job was to sing what other people wrote for him/her (hmmm... where have I seen this before?).
Not even his coach could do anything about it due to the restrictions of the contract Denis signed with the show. He eventually recorded something out of his own pocket after the deal expired but without a label backing him up, all he managed was some air play in one of the public radio stations. Last time I heard about him he was in the UK, working at a restaurant to make money to try to make it in the British music scene.
Just one thing ; it's called 'American Idol'. NOT 'America's greatest musician'. It's not about the pure musicality, it's much more about marketability.
Which is fine but not for me at all.
Great comment. The title of the show pretty much sums it up. In a way it's kind of funny that anyone would expect anything more.
And after 19 seasons, only 2 have gone on to become idols- Kelly and Carrie.
I only ever watched one season of AI, and it happened to be Michael Johns' season. His audition was the best thing I saw on that show. He picked a great song ("I've Been Loving You Too Long") that fit his voice, while also making it his own. I started listening to Otis because of that audition. Really sad that he passed.
American Idol is still on?!
It went away then came back
Yes
@Master Exploder thiccc
Master Exploder really? That’s your contribution to this post? Would you care to compare your singing chops to her’s?
It's like a zombie.
Rick, I think these reality competitions, particularly The Voice, are having another effect on music, an effect you didn't discuss in this video.
This effect arises out of the nature of the competition itself: it's about showcasing the range, quality, versatility, precision and emotional tones of a singer's vocal performance. To impress judges and audiences, a singer has to do a *lot* of note-chasing and warbling, and must include soft/pure and aggressive, raucous passages. Very few songs are sung simply. Every technique must be demonstrated - growls, flips, transitions between low and head voice, etc.
The effect is that pop music has entered a period of calculated vocal demonstrations, particularly for female singers. They're all becoming clones of Demi Lovato, basically.
Now, I have nothing against Demi Lovato. She's an incredible singer. Singers who can imitate her are incredible, too.
But it's a trap. It's molding purchasing decisions of the masses, tilting popular music onto a narrow ground. We are being conditioned to expect note-chasing and warbling and technique-demonstration as the only valid expressions of great popular music.
Further, since the band musicians who are *not* singing in competition are pushed so far into the background, *everything else is taken for granted* by listeners. They might as well be robots. Do you know who Demi Lovato's band members are? I don't. What about them is memorable? There's no spotlight for them; and their creativity is harnessed strictly in service of Lovato's vocal demonstrations.
Can you imagine Mark Knopfler winning on The Voice? Of course you can't. Can the next incredibly creative rock band's lead singer/instrumentalist make it to the big time via The Voice? Probably not. What about Elton John? Sure, he'd do great. Not all historical acts would fail to please this new focus on vocal gymnastics, but the road to popularity has been constricted.
When you add in some of the factors you did discuss, such as assembly-line studio operation, the stultification is multiplied.
You just made a video about Yes' Roundabout song, and mentioned that in 1971, there was a huge vast variety of really excellent - and dramatically different - musical acts and songs appearing on the pop charts. You were right. It was a fantastic year for musical creativity and new sounds.
What's on the top of the charts today is narrowed. Most pop singers are demonstrating their technical vocal mastery to prove to the audience that they are elite singers, and nothing else about the songs has any significance - just as if they were competing in The Voice. New creative music, new sounds, and new virtuoso instrumentation have been pushed into a corner for niche audiences, but those songs don't usually make the pop charts. It's not all that easy to even find truly brand-new and highly-creative musical acts. Where are the new sounds we haven't heard before? They can't make the big time to get our attention.
I blame these competitions, particularly The Voice, for conditioning public taste into a much narrower focus. And I think it's a dead end. No doubt we'll break out of it eventually, and a new golden age of creative rock and popular music will take us by storm; but so long as the competitions retain their grip on audience imaginations, that day will be delayed.
Urgelt I just loved your phrase in respect to these TV show shills “ note chasing “ . Those two words rather sum it up . Kudos
The voice has that added feature where the contestants choose to sing one of the same dozen songs that invariably have the coaches salivating until that whitney/mariah note is hit and they all smash their button as though turning to meet the next global megastar...So many seasons of so many different talent shows like these still fail to produce legitimate acts that could headline the bill at glastonbury for example...Reality T.V. stardom for a fleeting few weeks is what is on offer and only if they work their butt off after the show they just might make a living in music
Yep. You summed it up PERFECTLY
All true, apart from the "pop music is becoming all the same stuff" part. There are exceptional artists coming out in the mainstream that started underground, especially in hip-hop (see the ex members of odd future, brockhampton, Denzel curry, Jpegmafia and so on) which are experimenting with modern music production. It's not anymore about virtuosism, or harmonic complexity or stuff like that, it's getting more about tone, texture, aestethic, beat, and creative music production in general. Also, the lines between mainstream and underground are blurring thanks to music streaming. I don't really see that much vocal virtuosism that you are talking about in the last three years mainstream. Sure, you've got people like Adele, Lizzo, and neo-soul artists, but their vocal prowess is always fitting the song. It's kind of a "it was better back in my days" mentality that is not helping music at all. See what happened to rock music in the mainstream.
I agree with all the other points you made though.
Urgelt I just blame Simon Cowell. Like, for everything. It doesn't matter what it is, but I blame him for it.
Greg Graffin, Joey Cape, Kurt Cobain, Chuck Ragan, Brian Molko... so many character singers who move generations would have never made it on this ruthless show.
Griffin is my favorite singer.
Graffin*
I totally agree, Oliver
My daughter just auditioned for the Voice, this is before you get to the stars, just the Voice’s talent scouts. She said the first thing she did was to see him with a track, she said the track was so stinking loud she could not hear her self in the slightest and there was no getting them to turn it down. ??? And these are professionals
What happened to her? Did she make it through? I never got to that part of the preliminary rounds because I would always get told no because of the fact I don't have the star quality look
@@bradley3238 I was in 2 similar competitions and both times at the cattle call they already had their pick before any contestant entered the room. In one case it was a voice student of one of the judges. That quickly turned me off of these things in my early 20s. Also my music choice isn't compatible with these competitions since I am more on the classical/art song category. These guys want country or compressible bubble gum pop singers. Funny enough my DJ friend who sang in my pop ballad choir for our local theatre ended up getting in even though his voice had nodules from smoking and his voice sounded like cat nails on chalk board.
Adam Lambert didnt win his season. But, he won in life by touring/singing with Queen.
Much like star search many of the losers won and many of the winners lost
you forgot to mention they had to sell their soul first even the losers!
he is a queen.
Brian May has some strange obsession with gay dudes.
Marc ... Beyonce's girl group lost on "Star Search".
Excellent discussion, guys...I, for one, would NEVER go on one of those shows...but I do enjoy watching them with my daughter when they're on...but, you're right, the best thing about those shows, for me, is all the music from the live band...they rock!!! 💗💗💗
Loved this chapter! Agree and understand everything said! Best regards from Portugal!
First video I have seen from you guys. Great commentary! Very fair, balanced and informative! Thank you.
Rick was visibly touched when talking about his late friend. I know it was a while ago but sorry for the lose.
Proud to say: I have NEVER watched even one reality TV show.
However I have BEEN on Restaurant Makeover and you guys are ABSOLUTELY right about 'manufactured' drama, or conflict.
I was called to help a restaurant pick out a good piano as part of their renovation plans. It was so sad. The producers were the most manipulative two-faced, lying pricks, just to get some conflict into the show.
I felt like I was a party to someone getting royally screwed.
SUCH BULLSHIT.
.
Mark Eisenman Funny you say that. It was the Gordon Ramsey restaurant makeover show that sealed it for me that most of these shows were fake or heavily influenced by the creators. I remember one particular episode about a Long Island restaurant that had a few more head scratching moments than usual. I chalked them up to Ramsey just overacting for the camera, but then a few months later I saw the “owner” of the restaurant acting in a movie on HBO!
We watched the very first episode of Survivor. When we saw that it was political survival rather than actual surviving in the wilderness we never turned it on again.
@@Dog-O To be fair the stuff Ramsay did in Britain felt far more real and I doubt anything was staged beyond clever editing. But yeah the American shows are garbage including Masterchef.
I think Rock Star: INXS was the best music competition show of its time. The studio band was incredible, and most of the singers were already singing professionally so it wasn’t just amateur hour.
Agree 100%
Agree
I thought season 2 was even better. Unfortunately supernova sucked.
I also agree. I don’t know why they didn’t continue the show with other bands.
Not sure if this will be read, and I will post it anyway. Just recently, Emisunshine was on "American Idol," and Emi, who is currently 16 years old, has been playing and writing songs since she was 6 years old. She has released 6 albums, and her band is her father, brother, and a cousin. EmiSunshine performs about 150 shows a year across the country. She has performed twice on Marty Stuart’s Late Night Jam at the Ryman Auditorium during CMA Music Fest and has had 16 performances at the Grand Ole Opry.
"American Idol," didn't show her audition, didn't tell any of her story, and gave her no props at all. I think they didn't know how to handle a young lady who is already successful in her own right. She works her butt off and is a great singer/songwriter, and I think they were afraid of showing who she really is to the world. She was voted off by Luke Bryan at about episode 5 or 6, so she didn't need the show, but they didn't give her a fair shake for a 16 year old whose been writing songs and music for over 10 years.
Luke Bryan. Smh. Her career has already outshined his. I can't watch Idol. Katy Perry loves herself so much and doesn't realize she sits next to a man that had a stellar career, even legendary, and yet he sits in a judges chair in a stupid show.
I've never heard her music, but she clearly is too good for American Idol. She was wasting her time to audition. She is already doing it on her own. Did Pink need AI? Did Gaga? Nope. They were writing songs since they were children too. And they made their own way.
@TheDowner what type of music do you singing right? I'm looking for some songs to sing because I'm more of a singer rather than a writer. I have written lyrics but melodies are not my strong suit. I'm looking for anybody who would be willing to help me either with my music or helping me find songs to sing
@TheDowner please send me the song you wrote that's better than "These Days" written by Jackson Browne when he was 16, or even I'll follow the Sun by McCartney when he was 16. I would absolutely love to hear it.
@TheDowner yeah... I didn't think so. I noticed you don't have any videos on here showcasing your brilliance. I would really love to hear the unique singing voice you claim to have. I also understand your songs are so complex no one else could cover them. And you say I idolize Jackson Browne and Paul McCartney because they are famous? I've known more than a handful of people that were most likely much more talented than you will ever be when they were 15. I include myself in that list. I was already getting paid to sing professionally at that age. When I was homeless for 12 years it was because of the choices I made in life, which is likely the reason you were homeless at 15. It doesn't make you special. You didn't invent grief, no matter what your ridiculous CZcams handle is. Once again, I implore you, let's have a songwriting contest. We can have only the people you know judge it. Hopefully, they won't be all racists and narcissists like you. I'm off to bed now so that I can wake up and get paid more than you make in a week to sing for a couple of hours tomorrow.
these shows are the Wrestling of the Music industry (regarding the drama)
I was just about to comment that same thing. It is predetermined even if there's voting involved. The show's producers are the actual judges and voters if they don't who the audience selected.
Probably not wrestling fans, yeah? Lemme clarify some obvious stuff that gets somehow lost on most people.
Wrestling was like that maybe a couple of hundred years ago, e.g. the last time it was actually believed by anyone on the planet to be a real fight. Nowadays in these post-touring-circus times, it's a part of the charm and as much as the ones at the top are actually quite bad at writing it, it's still done with that knowledge in mind and CAN be something special. Same reason you can go to a movie without feeling cheated that the actors aren't actually trying to kill each other for reasons of real international espionage, or that aliens haven't actually landed, or that animated talking animals aren't wandering around the streets outside having wacky adventures. It's genuine to its own context. It'd be like finding out a DeLorean doesn't actually time travel, and then taking some scam artist who holds peoples' computers hostage, putting that creep next to the movie writer, and going "you're the same".
I adore pro wrestling. I'm in that world. I'd probably hate it, back when it began. Because back then, people seeing their local strongman step up to this travelling no-rules grapple champ were actually being taken for fools. And back then it'd probably seem a lot like these music competitions now. But they don't resemble each other now, that's an insult to wrestling. These judge hacks aren't good at a damn thing and they sure as hell depend on actually fooling people.
@ well alright, I took the time to lay out why you're talking bollocks, but I guess it's more fun to shut your brain off and keep talking bollocks.
@ and yeah it's not as good now. Athletically a hugely higher standard, but typically with characters taken too seriously, and a bit too bland on the whole. There are definitely exceptions, throwbacks if you go looking for them, but yes the mainstream has shifted, absolutely.
And that makes pro wrestling akin to one of these genuinely deceptive judge shows... how exactly? That still feels like an undue insult. You can see my point, right?
@ I did point out the key difference and why that comparison's insulting though. You really can't see where I'm coming from?
Oh and singers that think every flippin phrase should begin and end with vocal gymnastic runs.
I won't use the term commonly heard uttered by my lot, but needless to say, even my youngest (21) calls it ( insert unmentionable name here ) and believes it to be truly abhorrent.
She was nearly apoplectic when her mother handed her Iron Maiden tickets, tho. She openly states that Bruce Dickinson is her all time pick for best vocalist, even to the motley crew of "Pop" fan sheeple she has as friends who seem to think that the latest auto tuned tart du jour is the "be all - end all".
It's the every female singer wants to be Beyonce or Mariah syndrome.
@@blairlane1614 you really should be more specific and just say what you're talking about without worrying about offending little snowflakes on CZcams. Seriously man get a backbone and just say what you mean. It makes your point come off as very weak
Your RV Freedom on point. None of the great “storytelling” singers would make it past the first round. “Frank, I need to hear more from you in that first chorus and you’re way behind the one. Again.”
reminds me of Christina Aguilera. Even Family Guy mocked it, her going whoahoahah whoahaohoa and it's like bitch, stop!
You three have voiced so many of the same observations I’ve had about these shows, especially the sad backgrounds which, in effect, turn these into popularity contests instead of talent competitions and the issues with putting children and teens into situations they may not be emotionally equipped to handle.
Notice how comfortable and open Rick is on camera, the other guys are super tense and closed off. Body language is crazy
Perception is crazier.
Most body language reading is bullshit, don't believe it.
Great chat guys! The only thing I remember learning in high school was in a media studies class when we got to TV the teacher opened with "if you see it on TV it's on purpose....nothing is an accident...period." we all said "but what about..." and he kept saying it's on purpose. No exceptions.
So very true!
My problem is that it funnels a lot of people into a certain mold. And if you don't fit that mold, you're out. I've seen quite a few unique and talented singers get voted out in favor of more safer and generic sounding singers. You also have to consider the type of people going for these shows. How many of them actually want to be great artists? A lot of them seem like they just want to be stars.
Or in other words: it's not a singing contest it's a popularity contest. Consider the fact there are about 3.5 million potential voters and 90% of them can't tell a good singer from a cinder block.
Don't be a classical music act they don't like that. In American Idol it seems they only take 1 art song/classical legit singer. Yikes.
I always wondered if Palmisano knew Beato and Shull, and then I stumbled onto this video. Great stuff!
Rick I love your channel and all the videos but these videos where three of you just talk are especially useful because I can turn it on like a podcast while doing chores around the house and not really have to see the screen. You, Rhett, and Dave are a winning combination when it comes to talking about anything. Thanks! Keep it up!
Tom Petty called it:
‘If you’d have shown up and said you were there because you won a competition on TV, you’d have been laughed out of the room.’
HA! I didn't know he said that. Amazing.
Guitargate Yeah, there was a bio-documentary about him on Netflix. I think that’s where I heard it. I believe it was called Running Down a Dream. Not there anymore.
Dude!!! That documentary on Tom Petty was amazing!!! I know what you're talking about, I believe that's the title also, and it was spectacular!!!
@@1111MJR - Thank you for yet another 1111 sighting! :-)) And if it was 'JRM', it'd be my brother's initials, too :-)
A bumper sticker I wished I had, my kid beat up your Idol contestant because he was a s$%t
This video was aight dawg but it was a bit ptichy for me
@@laartwork Does your drunk uncle have a successful CZcams channel? Lame comment of the year...
😂😂😂
E Higgins Dawg, they did their thing!
Wow this is such a great talk and I'm only 5 minutes in and rhett is dropping so much truth! I have hesitated watching these talk videos rick, I usually only watch your music lessons and livestreams. But holy cow you guys are so interesting to listen to, I am gonna have to start throwing this on in the background as if it were a podcast because this is teaching me so much truth about music!
I worked on The Voice for 10 seasons from the finals of season 1 to season 10 blind auditions and it was the most amazing journey I have been on .
There was an article a few years ago that said that the voice is really about making bigger stars of the judges and so much the contestants. It's really just about making the judges bigger rock stars. Often times, they will sing their new single, etc.
Been saying this for years.
Michael Johns singing "Across the Universe" was one of the best performances ever on American Idol.
Rick, I have been playing guitar for over 30 years, and I never took it seriously enough to have aspirations of turning professional. It’s always been a personal passion that just provides me with enjoyment and therapy many times. I’ve always been able to figure out what I’ve needed to be happy, but in the last few years I got interested in recording and mixing my own music just to add another level of enjoyment. I’ve also been a luthier of sorts for many years mostly due to us not being able to afford great guitars or pay pros for repairs, and so I’ve learned over time to do complete builds adding even more fun to my passion. I just wanted to check in and say that in my renaissance over the past few years in seeking knowledge, I found your channels and I wanted to say Thank You. I’ve actually learned some really great tips from watching, as well as some really interesting history in music, artists, and production. And I enjoy your delivery and the quality of your content. So again, Thank You and keep it up!
Very interesting. I really enjoyed seeing this because it’s something I sort of have a frames of reference for. I’ve watched American Idol before, several years ago. This kind of inside information is something I would never be privy to. So thank you for this video. As always, I love your videos because even if I don’t understand the technical side of music, I have more of an appreciation for the talent that musicians have.
Thanks for discussing the world of “reality” music shows.
Chris Daughtry was pretty good with his voice and band...he came in third on the Idle.
He actually came in 4th.
He's super overrated IMO. A classically trained theater boy doesn't have the grit required to sell rock music. You can't turn rock songs into singer ballads. The real issue with these voice obsessed programs is that they ignore EVERY aspect of music except for vocals. Rock music is more than voice. Daughtry is a square peg in a round hole.
40 years ago, Daughtry would've been nothing more than a great regional bar band. They gained national recognition and made tons of money because the timing was perfect as far as the "music show" culture.
@@rubicon-oh9km that's pretty much what he is now. He had to go on The Masked Singer, remember?
Every time I hear Daughtry, I think it's REM before they became famous.🤷♀️
This video really helped me appreciate my own singing and writing. It is true, I watch youtube videos of the voice contestants and think wow I wouldn't make it there I won't make it anywhere. It does suck. This video gave me a new perspective.
Thank you guys :)
fantastic talk, never gets old listening to you guys talk about the industry
If I remember correctly, the top 5 or 10 contestants on American Idol are required to sign a contract with Simon's company (I believe it is owned by Simon or he's heavily involved), not only the winner. Every year, there is a tour with the top contestants, including the winner who has top billing.
These shows are nothing more than a platform for the judges, not the contestants.
That's more true for the Voice.
Exactly
Aren't they scripted?
@@julieanderson100 I agree, but I think it's become more about the judges on American Idol as well. The difference is that the judges on American Idol became more important (in terms of the show focus), while the focus on The Voice was always on the Coaches. On The Voice, the central question is more about which Coach will win the competition. On American Idol, the question is which singer will get the title.
Yes. People enjoy the reactions of beautiful judges like Alesha and Amanda.. and Simon got some fame as well
Love Mike and guitargate!! awesome to see the collab
Rick is so AWESOME!! Thanks for the video!
So many great classic artists would have never made it past the audition phase. Many greats don't have what most would consider an amazing singing voice.
Bob Dylan, anyone.
@@billh.1940 to be fair bob dylan is an awful singer
Bob Dylan
Bruce Springsteen
Mick Jagger
Neil Young
Ozzy Osbourne
Mark Knopfler
Johnny Cash
Simon Le Bon
Ringo Starr
Jimi Hendrix
Eric Clapton
Miley Cyrus
Ashlee Simpson
@@DunmoresMovieMania Euuuhh Simon Le Bon ?? Try sing some Duran Duran stuff.... Would surprise You evenso Ozzy Osbourne. Ronnie James Dio ALWAYS struggled to do the Ozzy songs with Black Sabbath. And DIO was a GREAT Vocalist...
NIN had soome interesting music and textures he's a horrible singer though so yeah. One thing he can say is he wrote the backing tracks to Quake take that Simon Cowell
Phillip Phillips was my favorite American Idol artist. He's not only a great singer, but a great guitar player🎸, as well. HOME🎵 was one of my favorite songs 🎼 of this decade.😀👍
What I love about this channel is that Rick and his guest always try to be balanced and objective. It's a great quality we don't see enough these days.
I'm glad that you guys covered this subject. Ann Wilson had an interesting way of putting it. I'll have to paraphrase, basically she said they put all this pressure on these vocalist who haven't in most cases had a chance to hone their craft. And I think what else she was getting at and what I've always felt they think it's their one and only chance and then are devastated when they don't make the cut.
I have been saying for years that I personally HATE any TV show that features music as a competition. It's fundamentally wrong for me. Art is not a competition. American Idol is pure garbage and so is The Voice.
So true so true...
Sorry, but the industry IS competitive.
There is nothing wrong with having musical competitions, it's how they've been carried out lately. Part of Beethoven's fame during his lifetime came from his legendary piano competitions and duels, which bettered his technique because he would challenge himself to play his competitors music backwards etc. Music is art, but it also requires talent, and one has a right to display such talent. It's just these shows are rewarding only singers, and mostly bad singers, and are praising them as legendary talents for singing a few bars or only covering simple pop and R&B songs.
I agree with you.
@@julieanderson100 the industry is competitive but competition is the opposite of the industry's purpose. competition is only useful to a degree and then it's destructive.
I have been trying to tell non musicians these exact points for years, sadly my experience is people trust the media aspect way too much and it's like beating my head against a brick wall
Another great video Rick. Thx.
Been watching all 3 of you for awhile, but didn’t realize Michael had collab’d with you guys. Cheers from Baltimore! ✌️
I think the main problem with these talent shows is that a legendary singer comes once or twice in a generation, not two or three times per year. You’re getting the best of a bad bunch by letting everyone audition.
For me those shows have a very positive effect. I watch 5 minutes, then i'm like: "Oh hell no!" and go back in the studio to continue working on the next album. :-)
That's exactly right.
They make me go out on Saturday night to watch local artists. Result!
Work, practice and a lot of luck all figure into a career in music like any other vocation. Great panel discussion from pros. Thanks guys!
Haley Reinhart was a runner-up, and sounds amazing on Postmodern Juke Box.
Mmmm love Postmodern Juke Box, never knew Haley did that show.
Music/Art is not a contest.
Music is not but to get a record deal you inevitably will have to compete with many others because not all can get a record deal since it is not a musical utopia.
Didn't say it wasn't a business.@@ThelSuperlKing
it's not a fking game show contest. Jeez. you're so smart. People naturally compete in life.
@Jin jin
People don't naturally compete in life. People naturally compete under capitalism. People naturally co-operate and help one another in a utopia.
@@ThelSuperlKingboth competition and cooperation is essential to humanity. It's intrinsic in our culture, it makes us achieve great things.
I took part in a talent-show in Finland a few years ago, and I even did pretty well coming to the final phases. But what you're saying is all true, and it's brutal to find out that after the show nobody in the record labels or in the production company cares about you anymore, they are already focusing on the next season's crew. And in my personal experience the people who ran the show were really good folks, it's just the mentality itself and the concept that is warped. I also thought it could be a springboard for me towards a quick ascent, but that was so far from truth. But I built great contacts I must say, and I still play with most of the people I met through or thanks to the show. And some are among the best in their thing in Finland.
In my case, the show wasn't full of drama or shenanigans, but years later things changed a bit. It was pretty much about the music fortunately. But it's true that the void you experience when the lights turn off is tough to bear. I'm honestly really happy I had the chance to experience that and understand what music business is about, or better say what it's NOT about. You have to build your own career and find your own way. And some people get there early, some later, because everybody's journey is different and talent, luck, personal connections and so on all play a role.
One thing that disgusts me is that labels who sponsor these shows have found a way to make loads of money (TV pays very well) without committing to tending to and fostering new artists as it was in the old days. Labels had to take risks and accept that artists might not be ready at the first shot, but still they deserve more than one chance and some time to find themselves and grow as musicians.
Hey what's up Mike it's the Animal. Great seeing you here on this video. I'll be rocking out all over Baltimore hope to see you.
David Cook had some great performances on that season.
I was on season 1 of X Factor and a season of America's Got Talent. I was told very directly by the producer who originally reached out to me that it wasnt about who is most talented...its about who makes the best TV.
Rick: “Name ten winners...” the sound of crickets fills the room... 🦗
Hahaha love it
Jennifer Hudson.
Edit: Doesn't count.
to be honest they struggled with finding successful weak singers.
*Name the musicians who play the live music in the the show*
question to the producer,judges.
*Sound of crickets filling the room*
@@brrjohnson8131 She didn't win. She's an example of a singer who was eliminated early, but still made enough of an impression to create a great career.
You might like this anecdote: we've got this great singer-performer that participated in a sort of Venezuelan Idol (I don't think it's the same franchise). The case is that they made her say she hadn't seen her mother in decades, while she visited her weekly, so they could arrange the "reencounter" in front of the cameras
“There’s very little reality in reality television”.....so true,...perfect!
The china equivalent actually introduces the the whole band at the beginning of most episodes. It's actually a notable trait in a lot of Chinese artist to give notice to the musicians and crew. Jessie J actually took part in one of their singing competitions and won. Her performances and competition really stands on another level.
Before the term "reality tv" was invented, they were called "talent shows" and they had been around for years in one form or another, Contestants were announced, they performed their act, and the winner was decided. There were no dramas, no sob stories, none of that "have you got another song" bullshit, just performers doing their thing, and getting off the stage, it's a shame we can't go back to those days.
Everything going forward for these artists that win on Idol or Voice is measured from the experience during these episodes. Which artists come out of these episodes expecting this same high to continue post-show. I would love for them to do a "where are they now?" series!
Those session players are monsters!!! The best of the best!!!🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Imagine Lou Reed on the voice.
Tom Waits? Thom Yorke? Kim Carnes? Macy Gray? I watch the vocalists on these competitions and the first thing I think is, "Oh, that one's been listening to a lot of Whitney Houston or Michael McDonald or Adele or Heart, etc etc..." There is a reason why most of the albums these "idols" put out after winning on these shows bite the dust on a commercial level; it's because the music and style they are aping has already been done and you just know most of the songs are gonna be DOA. I'm not saying the singers don't have talent; what most of them don't have is great original songs or a distinct style we haven't seen before.
@@FriendofDorothy
Kurt Cobain. Or going a little further back....Bob Dylan.
Or John Prine...
Or Neil Young
or bob dylan.
The Beatles honed their chops at seedy German clubs for 2 years before the Ed Sullivan Show on February 9, 1964
Hard working and smart working is the key...
MUSE also had to work their asses off in tiny venues before they got a shot at recording their first album
Yeah, And I think of Tina Turner who worked 364 nights a year back in the day. She earned her success. Respect.
Brother, congratulations on 1 million followers🙏🤟That is amazing🤟
2.4 million in February 2021. It has exploded exponentially, and rightly so. I started here when he had 200,000 subscribers. Don't remember who sent me, but I'm a very lucky duck.
I auditioned for America's got Talent years ago is Seattle WA and the gentleman who judged our performance was very honest. He said that we were obviously talented but AGT is more "a TV show" than a contest and he needed to find acts, (good or bad), that would be entertaining on TV and our audition didn't convince him that we'd keep a viewer interested. He wanted a sad background story or something. It was a fun experience though and I'm glad we took a chance.
You have just confirmed what I have long suspected.
Shou out from Queen Anne!❤️
There is a fundamental flaw in these shows: In the beginning of each season, the judges decide who stays and who goes. These are people who have the knowledge and experience to recognize vocal talent. Later in the season, contestants progress based on voting by the general public. The general public wouldn't recognize actual vocal/musical talent if they fell over it, and the show becomes a popularity contest - it is no longer about finding the best singer.
You hit the nail on the head. But what is commercial success if not popularity? Obviously, the show is about selecting the person with the best chance of becoming the next big pop music phenom. That's why audience response is key.
I don't know if that's the case everywhere, but in my country (Poland) everything is rigged, neither the judges nor the public decide, but TV producers and other 'anonymous' people behind the curtains. Of course, they make it look like it's up to jury/public to decide who wins, but in reality, the winner is known before the season even starts.
They got it right with Kelly Clarkson and Carie Underwood though. I guess even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.
The point of American Idol is to find the next pop star, not the best singer (and I would also say the same applies to The Voice - it's only in the first audition where only their voice matters, and after that it's exactly the same as American Idol). It's not a singing contest, it's a pop star contest. I don't see what's wrong with letting the audience decide who they prefer listening to/watching perform. Why should the best singer win? Just because someone is good at singing doesn't mean they have the necessary appeal as an artist. Being an artist is the whole package, not just your singing skills, especially in pop music (but the same really applies to most music styles, unless we are talking about classical music).
The point of giving the audience the power to choose in the end is that the judges have already chosen all of the artists that they feel have the potential to be the winner. After that it's about what the audience likes. So it's not like the audience just randomly chooses a bad singer - there's a reason why the judges make the first decisions and the audience is only given power after the judges have found the singers that have potential to be pop stars.
This is done to take the pressure and outcome completely off of judges and they TV show itself! They are always innocent and apologetic promising the losers nothing -- but maybe a few song tour for the top losers.
Question: What's wrong with American Idol? Answer: Katy Perry is on it...
I enjoyed seeing Harry Connick as a judge.
I don't watch it anymore for just that reason.
I don't know all the contractual details about the show, but my sister in law was on Idol with Michael Johns and they were good friends who collaborated afterwards. He was taken way too young.
For every good singer on these shows there are a hundred just as talented or more singers out there that may just not have the opportunity to get to an audition of these shows but are out there earning their chops doing small local gigs.
I'm just a no talent hack blues harp player that loves just getting up in front of folks and honking out and bending notes for all I'm worth, and that's all I ever wanted. Fortunately I've been able to do that and hopefully will continue to be able to sit in with local bands on gigs.
I learn so much from your channel Rick I appreciate you very much, and I am sorry for the loss of your friend.
~ Love is my religion
American idol started out as a label looking for people to sign, but that label sold its rights so that other labels can pick up the winners. The reason why stars get big is a lot of money is poured into publicity. For somebody like Beyonce, the cost of promotion was $3 million per album and $1 million per single. Even then, there is little staying power of the product once the promotion money is gone. Another thing about the labels is 90% of the money on a label goes to just 10% of the acts on that label. The rest of the acts, including the winners of Idol and The Voice are fighting over 10% of the promotion money.
One can still make some money. For instance Star Search had a lot of famous singers, but only a couple of the winners made it "big" with no help from Star Search. One of the male singers eventually got a Tony Award for being in the play Wicked and the other is Beth Hart who has been on the blues charts for over a couple of decades and worked with a lot of famous people.
Joss Stone won on Star For A Night. She also didn't get help from the show to launch her career.
orlock20 Excellent insight I never knew that about idol
Thank you for the explanation.
Stardom with no dues payed. If the show was in some dive bar with the audience throwing beer bottles at them because they weren't playing Sweet home Alabama then I'd have more respect.
This comment reminds me of that scene from the Blues Brothers where they end up playing Rawhide!
Randahl R I actually experienced chicken wire in a New Years gig and was told if there was a fight that we should go
Out back until it was over
Now that's funny. LOL@@garybackstrom183
Freebird
It's not fair to paint with such a broad brush. Sure there are some contestants who took a few hours off their job as a stockbroker to audition, but there are also many who have been busking or playing dive bars or whatever else for years or sometimes decades.
Hi Rick. Love your Podcast.
Great comment at 22:20! Artificially hyped success can ultimately be very detrimental to the growth of an artist and damage or destroy his / her career. Same thing happens in the art (visual) world with the commercially hyped art market for modern art. Young artist achieve these insane prices in auctions which pushes their market price way up and disrupts their whole organically grown client/collector/gallery relationships. None of their previous clients/collectors can afford them anymore. A different field of art but similar problems.... Great video! Appreciate the bigger scope discussion here.
Art in its purest form, as philosophers define, is a process of shared discovery. In a competition art is replacd by a mechanical system where skills are measured. Skills are needed to sing, but singing is not about skills. With a program like Idol, we get all the mechanical aspects with none of the aesthetics. Kelly Clarkson is all about techniques whereas Bob Dylan is all about aesthetics.
Very well said!
I agree these shows minimize certain aspects of talent and creativity in favor of ratings and ad revenue. My biggest complaint is that instrumentalists are all but forgotten and only vocalists matter. One thing I DO like is that contestants aren't required to be perfectly physically attractive!! Very refreshing given the overall shallowness of the format.
Amen! Thank you!
Thank you for this terrific epispde.