The 3 Reasons in Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne Explained
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- "The 3 Reasons in Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne Explained"
The three reasons in Shin Megami Tensei 3 Nocturne are Shijima, Musubi, and Yosuga and all represent ideologies for the new world to be created inside the "vortex world." In this video I'll be covering them and my general thoughts on the game. Also, Shin Megami Tensei 3 is coming to the Nintendo Switch in 2021. WOOOT! - Hry
For some reason I'm getting alot of comments of people saying, "toxic masculinity isn't a thing." The 10 seconds of me mentioning it in the video was legit just that, 10 seconds of me using it as a reference to one of the many themes ATLUS games cover .ATLUS covers alot of, different, timeless, themes to make us question society as a whole. Toxic masculinity, is a theme that haunts young men through development, and it even goes well into adulthood. It is a timeless story telling foundation. Look at films like: American Psycho, Fight Club, The Rocky Films, Lord of the Flies, ect. I don't understand how people are so hung up on the phrase "toxic masculinity." Maybe it's projection, or maybe it's a definition dispute because I feel like when I use the phrase, "toxic masculinity," some people think I'm saying, idk, "giraffe," or something.
Toxic masculinity as defined by Wikipedia:
"The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and to men themselves. Traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant, along with related traits such as misogyny and homophobia, can be considered "toxic" due in part to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence. The socialization of boys in patriarchal societies often normalizes violence, such as in the saying "boys will be boys" with regard to bullying and aggression.
Self-reliance and emotional repression are correlated with increased psychological problems in men such as depression, increased stress, and substance abuse. Toxic masculine traits are characteristic of the unspoken code of behavior among men in prisons, where they exist in part as a response to the harsh conditions of prison life.
Other traditionally masculine traits such as devotion to work, pride in excelling at sports, and providing for one's family, are not considered to be "toxic". The concept was originally used by authors associated with the mythopoetic men's movement such as Shepherd Bliss to contrast stereotypical notions of masculinity with a "real" or "deep" masculinity that they say men have lost touch with in modern society. Critics of the term argue that its meaning incorrectly implies that gender-related issues are caused by inherent male traits.[1]
The concept of toxic masculinity, or certain formulations of it, has been criticized by some conservatives as an undue condemnation of traditional masculinity, and by some feminists as an essentialist concept that ignores the role of choice and context in causing harmful behaviors and attitudes related to masculinity. "
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Video explaining the topic in regards to the popular movie fight club
czcams.com/video/Td88z08a_4c/video.html
It' s large topic with many angles to tackle it from, so to dismiss the entire concept of toxic masculinity is ridiculous.
So I'm gonna sticky this, if I get more comments about, "it's not a real thing dumbass," I'm just gonna refer them to the sticky.
Thanks for that man. People need to stop imposing outdated views on others.
Im surprised that people are hooked on the 10 seconds you mentioned it.
FYI Kagatuschi is a fragment of the Great Will, not Yaweh, I really wish people would stop getting this wrong. Yaweh is not mentioned once in Nocturne, though they Great Will is, and it is the same Japanese term that refers to the being from which Yaweh is a fraction as well.
cringe
Bluepilled coomerbrain moment 😳
Shijima: World of Stillness
Musubi: World of Isolation
Yosuga: World of Apple Bottom Jeans
Born to apple bottom jeans
Forced to boots with the fur
I think the reason I love SMT so much is because there's so much nuance in the choices given. I'm firmly Christian and not once have I felt attacked by the game for my beliefs, even when my God is often the "true" final boss. If anything, SMT is just really good at making me think about why I believe what I believe. It's like a philosophy class with a well-reasoned and non-hostile professor attached to a really enjoyable RPG.
Fantastic work, man. I'll be back for more.
Cindolintoe yeah it doesn't obviously attack religion like other games
Well just a question, but what do you think when you have to kill angels and or siding with chaos
@@kaidene573 I think of it like a "what if" scenario. But I also typically go Law or Neutral, anyways. It's ultimately just a fun game for me to play that makes me think about deeper stuff.
Yeah also this Is gnostic interpretation and the axiom would be closee to the god modern Christian's believe in
We get it you apollogizing as a christain that you play for the law route just as i do .... Nobody fucking cares who you are in the damn shit megoomi titsei fan orgy
The funniest part is that all of the reasons are branches of Law, which is why they are sponsored by angels and eventually kagetsuchi
Yosuga feels more chaotic to me
@@Tudo_suave yet most follower is angel
@@Tudo_suave if yosuga were truly chaos, kagutsuchi wouldn't have allowed it in the first place. even though it seems chaotic, it still has a very good degree of order to it. if you are strong, you rule. if not, you submit. plain and simple. even though that sounds cruel, it still has rationality behind it. that's why kagutsuchi accepts it. order can be born through a reason like that. if only the strong are left, then there won't be any weak people left to suffer. so no chaos.
@@ApexGale It feels more chaotic, I'm not implying that it is truly chaotic but there are situations were Yosuga can be chaotic as hell.For example, two strong leaders meeting each other, it could result in them joining sides or a war which is chaotic, the ladder being the most likely.
I think it's more that yhvh is dead during smt 3, since if he was alive he would be the strongest demon reshaping the world, as he usually does, and since he's dead the angels can think for themselves
This game holds a special place in my heart, my mom went out with this guy that she knew from high school and he eventually moved in and we quickly became connected, he got me into all of the smt games and spinoff games and all that stuff, he was like a best friend to me, he sadly passed away in August of 2019, god bless his soul
I'm sorry to hear that, it's always hard to lose someone but at least you have fond memories together.
@@NobleAbsinthe thank you 🙏
For the strong walk the earth one isn't she fine. Strength in body doesn't mean anything. Its about who can survive right. Well if a physically weak girl can use her cunning and wariness to survive in the apocalypse than yes she is strong. Stronger than say a demon who could lift up a truck but was killed by the protagonist or another more powerful demon. If you can not survive you are weak, so anyone who can survive is strong.
I have not played the game, so my comment is just based on the video.
Just a small note, but Persona, at least before 3, dealt mostly with personal issues with the social ones being a side effect of that. You can especially see that in Persona 2.
I still need to play P1, 2, and 2.5 just wish they didn't discontinue the translation patch on 2.5
@@NobleAbsinthe P2 really needs more love.
@@NobleAbsinthe They're still doing the translation for Eternal Punishment PSP. They've been sharing updates recently
But not hard as nocturne
@@NobleAbsinthe Geez. Even I managed to play Persona 1 as grind heavy as that game can be. It uses the first person dungeon exploration whereas the 2nd games feel more like an isometric RPG as their navigation. Persona 2 also took away the cumbersome grid combat of Persona 1 and streamlined the party for the better as sometimes your party members in Persona 1 cannot attack due to how they are placed in the grid and what weapons they use.
I know this is late, but imo, isamu's reason, the reason of musubi, is childlike in a sense. Everyone has their own world, and you and only you can do whatever you want in it. Everyone has their own world, they cant mess with yours, and you cant mess with theirs, so everyones happy. Thats just how i saw it tho.
It reminds me of kids playing in their quadrant of the sandbox. Arguing that their sandcastle cannot be touched 🏰
@@lenterathe-cat8760 fr. Chiaki's is the only reason I don't completely hate but she's a psycho
The neutral reason is the gathering all the parts and all the reasons and saying:"this is humanity, we have good, we have bad, there can be absolutes, but not all encompassing. I have rejected all reasons, but also I embrace all reasons, for we humanity, are all the good and all the bad. The world needs not to be remade, but to be repaired, and by my hand, I will begin the repair"
So you're saying we should accept the good and the bad and create a world based in critical thinking? You are upsetting the natural balance of things, and must be stopped!
"Your true adversary will come to you"
It could also be a less... overt way of saying “fuck off” to Kagutsuchi, by not denying the world, but denying its rebirth. The world will be as it is, and no overriding will is going to force the world to change.
@@fluxthemagician7928 Ikr, I've heard many say that the True Demon ending is the canon ending.
But I believe that's all up to perspective, especially when you compare Freedom to it.
@@NobleAbsinthe what is "critical thinking" I do not comprehend
Jeansuga reason, only the strongest jeans survive.
got to wear your jeans shirt, with your jeans jacket, and jeans skirt and jeans boots. Also gotta have good genes.
LOL. Do you guys think they literally dressed her head to toe in jeans as an allusion to the fact her Reason has a lot to do with genes? 😂❤
9:18-
is the Demi-Fiend really "qualified" to determine how the world should be? sure he's strong, and certainly the various Reasons created in this game weren't exactly great, but the protagonist-aka you-never displays any original ideas for how the world should be. the closest he ever displays to his own original ideas are choosing to reset the world, or choosing to destroy it permanently as Lucifer wanted him to. he never develops any original idea for how the world should be. he's just a follower, only capable of going along with the ideas of others. such a person shouldn't be considered "qualified" to create a new world. as Superman said in the first Injustice game, "we're not gods. we don't decide who lives and who dies". if idealized figures like him don't believe themselves to be worthy of determining what the world should be like, what right do we mere humans have to shape the world and it's inhabitants into what we want it to look like?
also, Kagutsuchi doesn't hate you for being a demon. he is actually neutral towards you when you meet him for the first time, and encourages you to find your Reason. he only shows hostility towards you when you reject all Reasons for the sake of either resetting the world to the way it was before the Conception or leaving it destroyed and casting away your humanity for the sake of power, and he is definitely more angry with you for doing the latter, and justifiably so. of course, i don't really fault Kagutsuchi for being mad at you for wanting to just reset everything. after all, it wasn't him that caused the Conception to happen. it was humans who did that. so from Kagutsuchi's perspective, it makes no sense for humans to cause a Conception to occur, only to then have everything go back to the way it was before the Conception occurred. if humanity wants the world to remain the same, then why cause the Conception to happen? why summon him if his power is only going to be used for the sake of continuing the old world that humanity had rejected-presumably on purpose? it's a waste of a Conception, and if i were Kagutsuchi, i would be just as annoyed as he was at having my time and power be wasted in such a careless manner.
When I referred to demi fiend as being qualified I meant it in a, "process of eliminatination" sense. The demi fiend is literally the only being left.
@@NobleAbsinthe technically, Raidou/Dante are also still alive and could technically be considered candidates, but I get what you're saying.
@@christopherbravo1813 Due to Demi-Fiend's strength against Kagutsuchi, the Reason he represents is the one to pass, whether Demi-Fiend likes it or not
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 strength alone shouldn't determine how the world is to be remade.
@@christopherbravo1813 It does in the Vortex World, given how you have to triumph over Kagutsuchi
This man really just went above and beyond in explaining the reasons holy shit, this made me question my existence for a minute.
Vote Nocturne 2020
"Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne would never take advantage of our innate gullibility"
sheen megoomy tensay
Thank you, Shin Megoomy Tensay
This was quite a treat to watch! I love SMT for its alignment system. I've been looking for content like this, where the lore gets analysed
Comments like these make it all worth it, and I do plan to make more lore and analysis videos.
@@NobleAbsinthe hell ya! I'd be excieted for that
Thank you very much for this video! You made me understand some details I didn't on my walkthrough and also to look differently on things in this game. Great job!
watching this a year later such a thoughtful and amazing video smt really gets you thinking, there so much you can explore when it comes to the mindset of humans and what we deem is more important. amazingly put together may i add
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'll be making more Megaten content for this channel. Hopefully you'll stick around by subscribing. I love everything Atlus makes and I'm gearing my channels towards more content like this.
Love your description of this game. Gained a fan
Thanks for making this video! I just recently got to play this game and I thought it was lovely. This was a great watch and just made me love this game and series even more!
Wow this was such a fantastic video and explains really what the series really talks about in its themes I’m in for the ride I’ll be watching and subbing to this channel 👌🏼
With how many times I've played this game, and how many videos ive watched on it, I've never encountered one that made me think as deeply about the reasons as this one. Outstanding job, always starving for good megaten content
I just played the game and fell in love with it. It was my first game in the series, and this honestly became one of my favorite games.
The three reasons are basically the three main qualities of what makes our world the thing it is. We strive with eachother, but cannot create without the creavity of others, but the creativity of others can create conflict between us. This conflict doesnt turn into darwinism, like the world of yosuga would want, because we, as humans, have some form of empathy in us, thus us not all striving for ultimate power.
That is personally the main point of all of the reasons: all characters took one concept of humanity, whilst rejecting all of the others.
That is why I personally think that interpreting the game just on american politics is way too narrow-minded and should be looked more at the big picture.
I also wouldn't consider Ms.Takaos Reason as being an interpretation of slacktivism, but more of a representation of how hard our world is to grasp, when you truly think about it. She knew that she wanted something better and opposed all of the other reasons to an extent, but she couldnt create her own reason for she wanted to take the best of all worlds without any of the negatives and just going back to the way it was before.
truly an amazing and deep dive into smt 3 thanks great video
I don't necessarily think the teacher's "Reason" represents slactivism - although I do think her character does. I think the "Reason" itself more represents allowing people to live how they want to live within society - similar to Musubi, but without the isolationist aspect.
The obvious issue with that "Reason" however, is that it perpetuates the whole cycle set forth by the God of SMT 3 - it allows for a Hikawa type person to bring forth the apocalypse, and bring forth the events of SMT 3.
I personally see it more of an admission that the world isn't perfect, but it is a reality which the most diverse amount of ideals can exist. I look at going for the ending as saying, "I'm not ready to give up on the current creation".
According to the devs it's just representative of Yuko, she wants for something but has no ideas of her own. It's the desire but no drive
❌ Republican
❌ Democrat
✅ Destroy the moon
based and demipilled
Man, this was great. I loved the philosophical talk, gotta check your channel out
Don't worry, I think you are a God of timing.
One more god rejected
Ever punched god's avatar so hard it recreates the universe based on someones reason?
Great vid!
I've been really interested in this game because it's a atlus game.. love their persona games and wanna try out SMT. But I think I'll love SMT because of these philosophy. it really gets me thinking and it's really deep for a game to have reputation of being hard. cant wait to play SMT 3 and maybe 5. started playing SMT 1 and jeez, the game is dated but it's really interesting to me.
I'm glad you're giving SMT a try! You can always just watch a longplay if some of the games are tedious.
This video is amazing!
00:20 "Handles with great care"
*laughs in Yosuke & Naoto*
I kinda feel like persona 2 is the only game with character I can relate to. Also this video was awesome my favorite game is the raidou games.
Fun idea about Isamu's reason
Let's say somehow that people are just born without procreation (without interaction between humans, how could we procreate? And if we can imagine humans to have sex with, would the children we make with them be their own individual people thus set off into their own world, or would they be toys for us to play house with?)
If you agree with Tabula Rasa, the idea that we are all empty slates at birth, wouldn't that mean that a world with no interaction would have several sub worlds that are exactly the same?
There's nothing to give you preferences. Nothing to give you experiences before you make your own world. Everyone, when they make their own world, start at the same place--AND because of that, will essentially raise themselves the same way because differences in character are brought about by differences in stimuli and environment. But if we are all just blank slates, we'll make the same blank slate world and raise ourselves with the same set of environments and stimuli.
Unless Isamu's humanity has inherent differences in them, they will literally make the same worlds over and over and over, because that's all they could ever make.
Btw its not the planet that is destroyed by the conception, but the universe. Each world in smt is treated like a universe.
You just made me realize how smart Nocturne actually is
I got whiplash from this vid...
How so
Thanks for explaining the game dude
if persona taught me anything is that Dagda was right
Social Links? Disgusting...
Look kid, I dont give a shit about your friends-Dagda
Not persona fault more people gravitate toward it more but hey smt still get love
If this game was the more popular of the franchise maybe things would be different, but no everyone's all about Persona cause it's brighter and cheerier in visuals
Do you like older or newer MegaTen games? I am personally for the newer ones, even though I believe that if remade would be amazing. Even if just ports with improvements and assist options. Like regaining hp and sp with each tile, removing level down spells, removing the chance for recarm to fail and adding the ability for none humans to level up (even if they never gain new Mystic Skills).
i never knew this old game was so deep
Of the three philosophys the individuality path was covered in the Angelic path for SMT Strange Journey Redux. Minds were changed through the Angels influence. Not everyone accepted the programming or were changed by them. People could be changed by the Angels or reject them. If you did not join their organization you would be excommunicated or killed. A civilization without individuality was taken even further in Devil Survivor 2. How people think was changed to reflect a single ideal. Egalitarianism, Meritocracy or Daichi's third way. Their vision of Metiocracy eliminated advantage based on birth. Your status was equal to how useful you were in society. Egalitarianism made sure everyone helped everyone so those who had little would always be assisted. Daichi's third way was a choice to eliminate war from the equation. Help your fellow man out of kindness. I rarely the Egalitarian path came the closest to perfection. Minus the opinion that the poor should kill themselves it really was as close to perfect as humans can manage. Then, there was a truely perfect path. The world was remade and everyone became better based on their experiences. Every human could influence the collective consciousness of the masses. Which allowed a total reset if creation to end up with civilization from the start.
Ironically Hikawa, as he is member of cult of Gaea, he want to make world that represents order of messiah Ideal.
He is a heretic according to his backstory exposition from Lucifer. This is why Hikawa even started the Conception
I'd enjoy more videos on MegaTen.
Honestly I loved the way you set things out, explaining each reason cause even then it can be a bit confusing. Great video dude! :D
I like SMT III & IV
I don't like them. I LOVE them. And the rest of the SMT games are also worth to be loved.
Love this video
When I see the absolute peace but no individuality I'm always reminded of the danganronpa 3 anime end arc with mitarai. The scene with him perfectly reflects that. If you haven't seen it it's really good.
I'd probably go with reason 2 because everyone can choose what they want to do without it messing with others. Also technically they wouldn't have to be in isolation if the individual world they created for themselves included having a companion
What an amazing video, thank you for opening my eye to nocturne's deeper themes
I wonder what you doing for a living because you make it simple and easy to get in mind
Very good video. Although I feel the racism part was a bit of a stretch, although I can understand why you'd think that. Also, Isamu is my boy.
I'll give my opinion on the part about America's political system:
Republicans think they're better than Democrats.
Democrats think they're better than Republicans.
Centrists think they're better than everyone.
People who don't care about politics think they're better than everyone.
I totally agree with you on the part about "choosing which ideology destroys the country less". Everyone on every side of the American political spectrum and even those who are outside it sucks ass. American politics is the worst thing I've ever seen. Honestly, a Conception happening in real life would be very interesting, to see people from around the world with their different reasons, and not just Japanese high schoolers, although I felt every reason in Nocturne is pretty good in its own way.
SMT Nocturne remains my favorite SMT game.
I love how dynamic and unoredictable the characters and the world felt in it.
I really like this video. Just got through playing on Hard mode new game+ and no matter how many times I play this game I always choose the True Demon Ending. As you said, the importance of nuance and finding grey areas are essential, especially when it comes to the toughest questions in life. All of the reasons have good fragments of ideas in it, but they are all separated as radical, similar to how our political system works in reality.
This is how I would rank this game's endings:
Demon < Shijima < Musubi < Yosuga
Musubi chads rise up
Virgin Yosuga Fan vs. Chad Musubi Enjoyer
What reason was the pre-demifiend world built off of?
"and whos design inspired Naoto Shirogane" is that one of the reasons nyarly named Isamu Edgy Naoto in his no buff run
Good video 👍
And the true demon ending? Where you say screw all. No creation, reject all reasons.
As you become a pawn of Lucifer instead.
and your efforts all come to nothing as you are doomed to be curbstomped by God.
Tbh if we go by Apoc he does have a chance against god. The Great Will that he fights is just an aspect of it, and the Demi-Fiend is a messiah for a reason
Another point though that Nocturne implies, is that another nuance is that destruction isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The way I see it, is that if the world ceased to exist, no one would know anything about it. I don’t think the end of the world is a bad thing. If given the choice, I wouldn’t know what I’d pick, but I certainly know I wouldn’t be worrying about it if I wasn’t here.
Nocturne is a beautiful piece of art. It really does stand out as art first and foremost, I think.
The game i know well based on choosing which path is Infamous games well Second Son as the game let you chose which path to take as if chose good you get some abilities that can help you subdue enemies, heal you which the good path Canon while choosing the evil side will help you become a killer and abilities that will help you on your killing spree but it’s not canon. I love these types of games but SMT is very interesting mostly with SNES as the game never came out to the US
Damn, this man spitting facts
I’m actually playing the game this year and wow I wish I could found this video before I started the game
Kagutsuchi is an avatar of great will, not a fragment of another avatar of hers.
God and the Great Will are used interchangeably throughout the series. sometimes they're the same, sometimes they're not.
Does this game take inspiration from paradise Lost? I can't help but see some similarities
spectacular video I wish I could give it two likes
I just found this video and honestly, I want to discuss something about Isamu... I could never set myself on his side exactly because Isamu always needed to be saved and wasn't doing anything to push his reason by himself until the Endgame.
I think that's the point: to bring up his hypocrisy. He fancies a world of isolation, yet its his former friend that saves him time and time again.
Just like how Chiaki's Reason of strength and power are contradicted by the fact that she is weaker than most demons, but her wit is what kept her alive. Not power.
And of course, as mentioned in the video, Hikawa wants absolute stillness and unity, but set himself above others when he forced the Conception to occur so he could make that decision for everyone.
Every single route has hypocrisies because humanity and our way of life is far more nuanced than any of the reasons or justifications given.
The way I see it, both Isamu and Chiaki, which are young, sees their idealogy bloom in the Vortex world, since they did not enter here with a clear idea in mind:
Due to physical abuse and his cowardness, Isamu wants a world where people are alone and must not suffer each other. This is due to him being weak and constantly getting caught. But also due to the influence the people of Amala's Labyrinth had on him. By the end of the game, once he gets corrupted, he is ready to chase his reason; but he knows he is not strong enough, but as everyone as already aknowledged: You are. So he forces you to help him, because it's all he can do. Because you all currently reside in the Vortex World, not the world he wants to create, so he is forced to bow to the Vortex's rules.
On the other hand you have Chiaki, due to her wits, she evaded everything and understood how the Vortex works: survival of the fittest. And she never questions it, she's fine with it. At some point she meets one of the weakest boss in the game, and looses an arm, because she tried to get something, but got caught and lost because of her own weakness. Unlike Isamu, she only got hurt because she tried and failed, not because she got caught, so she comes to the conclusion that it's her fault. And unlike Isamu who rejects everything, she accepts that she is at fault for not being strong enough in a world where only the strongest rules. And so she decides to become the strongest and create a world that reflects her experience in the Vortex, much like Isamu did... Except she had a better experience in the Vortex World... And then comes the fight with her Reason which is both the easiest and the only one to make you fight multiple ennemies, which always bugged me.
How do you explain the Lucifer/True Demon ending? Great video explaining each path though.
Definition of Friedrich Nietzsche ubermench. The super man who rises above God. You basically superceded all of man's constrained belief to forge your own path, but it also kinda isn't because you're following Lucifer's call.
So it's, complicated...
Lucifer's ending is the culmination of you failing his test but also because you passed the secondary test. Throughout the game The Lady in Black conditions you by expressing the thoughts they want you to experience, she and Lucifer steal your humanity and he wants to see what you'll do as someone with the power to choose but not the power to create.
So by choosing to join Lucifer's cause of stopping the cycle of creation you fail the test of resisting his influence but also he gains another powerful pawn in his war against the cycle.
If you watch the other endings particularly demon and freedom you see that the ultimate "passing" of Lucifer's test was by choosing to opt out of the process and return things to how things were. This is also what kagatsuchi considers to be a luciferean choice. Lucifer compliments you in that ending because it's the hardest path, it results in you and everyone else who experienced the conception being cursed.
Becoming lucifer's partner in defeating Yhvh. Lucifer saw Yhvh's true power before and was beyond 100% certain demi fiend can win.
True demon ending is basiclly a grand quest with extreme sacrifice. You gave up everything including the world and your Humanity. To just stepping in grand plan you wish for. And it left ambigious will you succed in doing it. Or are you gonna fail in the end? I think thats what true demon represent
I feel like the way you interpreted the reasons and the other endings is more how you feel than what was intended. Because the reasons represent the flaws of the person and that is the point. I don't think nuance is the point of nocturne either since they say in interviews that it's an exploration of the kinds of people who would have different interpretations of the use of power rather.
Radical
Wat songs did u use in this video? Just curious
Pretty sure they are all part of the smt 3 ost
Imagine if you could make a unique reason of your own? What are its principles? What would it look like? Who would be your divine sponsor?
I'm pretty simple. If I had the power I'd make a perfect world with resources so plentiful that there'd be no need for money. Everyone would have a baseline equality and self-determination is what governs how you live your own life.
Promote:
* Individuality
* Inclusivity
* Meritocracy (you can get more resources based on what you put into the world)
* Global brotherhood
And to deal with criminals we don't kill but instead focus on rehabilitation. While the prisoners don't have freedom, it doesn't mean they can't contribute to society still.
Being locked in a cage isn't really useful, but in a tech age there's no reason a prisoner can code and try to make a world a better place.
I don't know what I would call my reason, it's pretty progressive/liberal for the most part. But that's a pretty basic idea.
@@NobleAbsinthe Sounds like Ebisu of the 7 Lucky Japanese Gods would be a good fit as your sponsor then.
As for me, imagine a world of knowledge. Where fact and truth prosper unfettered by personal bias and avarice. A world where not only can everyone see through a lens of objective reality, but accept it without denial or deception to the contrary. Imagine the advances humanity could make if could see the world as it was, to know what is possible and worth pursuing, and what is futile. No more lies, no more bias, just knowledge and objectivity, where the clearest paths to happiness and prosperity for all can be seen.
Since this will be a world of knowledge, I think Prometheus, the Greek titan who gave the gift of fire and knowledge to man, would be a fitting divine sponsor for me.
Great video!!! Looking forward to trying this game out when it comes to the switch next year ^
Thank you so much for the compliment it means alot!
That's not what anarchy is. Anarchy isnt just everyone doing what they want. It's the dissolution of hierarchy.
But isn't that just effectively the same thing? I'm not a political science major, but if there is no governing body then people can do what they want.
@@NobleAbsinthe Go talk to an actual anarchist, then. Maybe do your research. You seemed pretty knowledgable about the different types of reason, so I'm surprised you didn't do any research on anarchy or what anarchists believe. Btw I'm a cis lady and I can tell you need to do your homework when it comes to abortion, dude. Maybe look into the lived experiences of women seeking abortions, or videos on the topic such as Philosophy Tubes or Curios. Granted, they have a left-leaning bias.
@@Ookamiryoshi I looked up more things on anarchy and it honestly seems like a deep rabbit hole that I'll never get out of. The term, and as far as I was taught back in grade school, was you basically had no order because you don't believe in organized society.
And apparently philosophers have been arguing with each other forever about it. Also, traditionally in fiction they call absolute freedom in games anarchist. So that was my template. So if I don't have the absolute correct pure definition of anarchy that we both can agree upon. I apologize. But I've had comment saying I was wrong without really explaining it themselves. The answer just google it, is a cheap answer tbh.
I stated what my definition of anarchy was because people have different definitions for words. So I defined it as basically absolute chaos from my exposure to the phrase. So to me it's kinda like how people choose alignment in dnd.
As for the abortion thing, I don't see what was wrong with what I said. Granted it's been a while since I posted this but my belief is that nuance is a thing and we should work on that.
I'm a dude so my perspective comes from a male perspective, but it seems fair. If you want an abortion, you can only get one in the event of incest and rape, like I think it's kinda fucked up to have abortion as a reset button when foster care is a thing. I mean my grandpa was an orphan, basically ditched him when he was 8 years old.
But yeah With so many options to contraceptives for both men and women I don't see how people can still consider optional abortion as a thing. and while it depends on the person, abortion remorse is a thing. I also know people who've had multiple abortions and they don't give a shit. So unless I interviewed or did a statistical analysis off a large n sample size of women. I think that'd be Overkill for a wvideo about a video game where my main message is to think for yourself.
We can agree, disagree, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. I proposed my solution, you can propose yours
@@NobleAbsinthe I'm no expert on poly sci either, but most anarchists seem to advocate for giving power to the people, like neighborhood watches instead of cops. Maybe you should consider how the powers that be benefit from teaching about anarchy that particular way, like historical revisions and stuff like that. As for your argument, yeah foster care is a thing, but it sure as hell ain't the best solution. From my research, the foster care system is pretty messed up. I also don't think you realize just how dehumanizing it can be for an afab person to be told that their autonomy comes second to a potential person, having someone else call the shots on what happens to us. Then there's the myriad of medical issues. Some anti-choice folks seem to see pregnancy as mildly inconvenient when it can be incredibly traumatic, painful, expensive, etc. for a lot of people, especially those with medical/mental health issues. You seem to be pretty lacking in empathy, and while you can say "that's just like, my opinion man" that offers little comfort when those who hold power call the shots on whether I'm considered a human being or just a vessel/broodmare. In my country, there's a constant threat that we may end up in a handmaid's tale scenario. I highly encourage you to listen to the lived experiences of women and other afab people who have had abortions and then maybe reconsider your position. Granted, it is possible for a person to advocate for reproductive freedom while personally not wanting an abortion or not wanting their partner to get an abortion. I really really hope your solution isn't the one that the government goes with, bc if it is then I'm getting TF outta my country pronto. Unlike Nocturne, society has yet to fall and I'm glad that the decisions don't all fall into one person, cause shits way more complicated than that. I'm gonna drop this topic cause I tend to get heated about it and recommend one more time that you watch Philosophy Tube or Curios video on the topic. Have a nice day.
All that is required for anarchism to be maintained is that people have the power to defend themselves, and either an understanding of ethics, or an understanding that violating people's rights carries consequences of ostracisation or retaliation. Without a state in the way, both of these criteria are easily fulfilled.
A system of ethics is brought upon by a system that teaches those core ethics. A system to teach goes against the idea of anarchy. We also can't assume everyone is going to be able to be happy or deal with 1 on 1 confrontations. People with more resources will be attacked en masse or become the beacon for weak, those that are weak will try to seek those with power out of fear and inability to fend for themselves, and regular Joe's will just fight it out or become strong or weak.
It just leads to the need for systems. If anarchy was ever able to work than we'd have more societies in the world be able to do it. Even villages mentally trapped in the stone age still use basic frameworks for society because working together just works. But a modern day form of anarchy, with modern tech, Id like to think it would be possible. Self sustaining farms, free internet, and other luxurious would make me a happy hermit, but that is on the back of other people's labor which is paid by someone else, and thus a system defying anarachy.
@@NobleAbsinthe How does a system to teach go against anarchy? As long as it's not forced on people against their will, it aligns with voluntary principles, and thus, with anarchy. And so it is with people working together, exchanging goods or services, or charitable aid. As long as it's all done without force or coercion (or fraud), it's fine.
@@vulpinedeity3379 systems and working together goes against the definition of true Anarchy. If we were to implement things that allow us to work together and still have ultimate Freedom then there has to be a different name for it but in accordance to the way the games present Anarchy it doesn't work,
@@vulpinedeity3379 personally I'm more of a fan of the chaos paths with just a minor addition of law so I'm with you
@@NobleAbsinthe What you're describing isn't anarchy, per se. It's some sort of sociological solipsism. Anarchy is just being without rulers. So long as they align with voluntary principles, there may be systems of collaboration, exchange, etc. Even within anarchism we are not entitled to freedoms that violate the freedoms of others. Rights are valid only in a negative, or defensive context, after all. My right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose.
Yeah that's cool and all but where was Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne during Hurricane Katrina?
Nice
@Noble, your reason is called Positivism
A stain sphere is a hypothetical theory that an advanced technological species would inevitably lead to a circular construct around a sun to harness its raw energy. SMT is just supernatural Armageddon.
Well in appearance, it is deceptively like a Dyson sphere.
Looks like someone is ready for the new game already lol.
Local teen becomes demon and kills god.
Statistics world wide show that gun control almost halts mass violence. However I will admit that I have my own personal biases, I enjoy owning my firearms.
I personally believe that body armor should be around and easy to buy reguardless. As even without guns over the counter, one should still be allowed to actually protect themselves from another's violence.
These statistics kinda goes against your philosophy of everyone having the means to defend themselves. Gun Control is merely a governmental tool to control the populace and limit their ability to rise up against tyrannical regimes. We have seen that with various past regimes that took away guns as the first step in making sure the only ones with guns are military and police. And if people already distrust the police,having no guns means you have to have cops as a necessary evil.
@@ZX-Gear
I'm just stating what statistics show. Another fact is that both having a weapon never de-escalates an encounter. It always ends in injury or death. Body armor and defensive measurements (like alarms and such) are usually what stop violence. Yes, murder does not stop but is draumatically lessoned.
What I had stated is that even with said information, I do not feel comfortable with the legalization of fire arm's. Limitations, maybe, but until there's a way to have a fully unbiased system of regulation (maybe via A.I. reviewing people. Sounds a bit sci-fi but we already have self driving cars as I type this. It's Just an example anyway), I won't enjoy much regulation either.
I also said this to show the point of the video, that everything needs nuance via a personal example that came to mind.
@@mikhielbluemon4213 Problem is that you are using absolutes such as supposed data in order to argue for nuance. When usual it is more complicated than that. Japan's police is said to be the exact opposite of the US where they are undergunned and made fun of for being useless. Though granted crime is said to better there and whatever murders that do happen makes big news. Of course,that is not including stuff like what the Yakuza are doing behind everyone's backs but I digress.
And as mentioned before,gun control and legislation ultimately leads to tyranny and suggesting AI which is not even smart enough to actually make proactive decision making needed to control things is a bit reductive and is a game of statistics as opposed to a case by case basis. There has been articles where AI have been making decisions with solely data where the end game of said decisions show a less than PC view on certain groups of people. If we argue statistics as our only source of decision making,it goes to show that it doesn't take long till we treat unfairly to these groups of people because of statistic.
What you are arguing for is even more dystopian than the occasional mass shootings that do happen like maybe 3 times a year. Some of these are laughable almost in their shooter's KtoD Ratio as Randy Stairs has only killed like 2-3 people than himself. Sad that lives are lost but the efficiency of these mass shooters are vastly overexaggerated to suit narratives and decisions for career politicians to limit your rights and options to defend yourself.
@@ZX-Gear
I want to say firstly: Don't call everything dystopian. Like, the word has almost lost all meaning because it has been over used.
Also mass shootings are semi common place in America. It's not 2-3 times a year, it's 2-3 times a week. However that's also because of it's massive size when in comparison to most other countries. If we go state to state, it's much less but still more than every other nation. More than most combined.
I do agree that we shouldn't only go by statistics. Fully. It's why, if you re-read what I type, it's kinda obvious that I'm essentially saying "Maybe, but not now, no where near close to now" but with a lot of added fluff.
Also correct on how current A.I. works, different studies have shown that a coder's personal biases almost always get into a code. Because of this, the small scale of A.IM assisted tests have shown that, racism for example, can get into an A.I., decision making.
On top of that, you can't look at statistics for something that hasn't ever been done before.
Also, thank you for being fairly civil because most people just say an unintelligible string of curse words.
@@mikhielbluemon4213 I feel like people are asking for more security at the cost of personal freedoms. I see that with various group thinks within various said groups.
I have seen how people act when things don't go their way when it comes to politics and I don't trust our system or even the voters if they act the way they do when an election is lost on their side. But even still,I would rather trust a vote over a de facto rule by anyone or group. AI or human. Biases will show up and a group of people will suffer for it.
Taking away options out of fear of said consequences is also a sign of cowardice. Don't come crying when all of a sudden you find yourself in a system you would say you didn't sign up for as you already have when you voted for the politicians and policies they enact. That and the other side can use whatever new tactics their opponents have used and both side will bitch and complain about it when it is used against them.
That is why American Politics is so tiring. Granted other countries have their own issues as well.
One thing I don't really get about Yosuga is why does it need Kagetsuchi to implement it in the first place? They already live in a world where the strong can simply amass even more power and then subjugate those without. That's like the entire history of humanity. That's what happens in the game. The faction with the strongest members is the one that gets to force their vision of the world on everyone else. I guess with Yosuga you'd just prevent the formation of laws that protect those without power, but laws like that in the real world have conveniently been ignored or changed by those with power.
I guess they’re just not ready to give the current system up
I came in hopes to learn about the Reasons, but only got R/EnlightenedCentrism
I did multiple comments to assist you against the Almighty Algorithm of the Machine Race.
Can we call these reason bearers Nahobino in any way?
and this is the reason i say that though it's not my favorite game it is the best video game ever created
YOSUGA FOR LIFE.
This is my first playthrough and I'm going yosuga
chiaki almost did the owo
@Noble Absinthe You left out how post-game DemiFiend is one of the biggest chads in gaming history and can solo the series. we can only dream to get on that level too...which itself can be metaphoric. "Ey man, you cant be as big as our boy here, but try your hardest in your way. In-game or irl"
Be careful. The aleph and nanashi tards are coming your way
Your video is interesting, however I think you made some mistakes about the lore of SMTIII.
-At the beginning of the video, you say that "Kagutsuchi is a fragment of YHVH". It is not true. According to SMTIII Official Guide, Kagutsuchi isn't a god, but a physical energy, a celestial body. It is inspired from the Japanese legend "Nihonshoki", in which Izanami gave birth to the god of fire "Kagutsuchi" whereas she was dying herself in her "child"'s flames. It does look alike YHVH in SMTII, however they are not linked, and they are not the same being at all.
-Then, you say that "Hikawa created a device that brings about the apocalypse". It's true, however it's a bit more complicated than that. The machine itself is called the "Nightmare System", on which is written the Miroku's prophecy, that comes from the Buddhism, and deals with the creation of a new world. It is not a coincidence that the Vortex World looks like a sphere, as the text mentions a drum that "reaches the end of the universe." (The guidebook also compares this form with a mother's womb.) This text's content was a mystery for a long time until Hikawa managed to translate it, and was finally able to create this device in order to bring the Conception of Tokyo.
-Finally, I would like to say that SMT is a Japanese series with a story told with a Japanese point of view for Japanese people. 2001's events inspired a lot the ideas for this game, but the core of it targets Japanese, especially how Japan dealt with the event at that time. The series actually deals with Japanese identity. I deeply think anyone can enjoy it no matter his origin, it's not an issue at all, and I understand what you want to say in your video. However, I don't think analysing it from another country and time's perspective is relevant.
Final Fantasy Memory零 It is relevant in showing that this issue is multi-faceted and doesn’t solely lend itself to Japan and its system, even if that is what it is was based off of
I just beat the ps2 version for the first time. You hit the nail on the head on the themes of the game more than I could.
I went with Hikawa’s reason up until the point of no return where Yuko would be sacrificed. Hikawa was pretty bad how he stepped over others to achieve his reason and as you mentioned was hypocritical to his Reason, and Isamu and Chiaki’s reasons were just plain bad.
The neutral ending was the only right choice for me.
Gahdam beautiful video
Too bad no SMT game will give us a Axiom ending.
Maybe we will have on smt 5.
What do you mean with an "Axiom ending"?
@@puzzle_boy czcams.com/video/pLD8JO8W8DI/video.html
Kagutsuchi doesn't hate Demi Fiend, he wants Demi Fiend to go find his own reason. Even if he's a half demon, he'd still want them to figure out their reason and fight for it, yet Demi Fiend never finds a reason of his own. The only time Kagutsuchi gets upset with Demi Fiend is when he joins hand in hand with Lucifer, or tries to reset everything back to square one, which essentially means nothing as it could just happen again in the future and people will still feel the need to change things. It's not racism in any way. Chiaki herself was more demon than human towards the end, yet she was still qualified.
I feel like as an analysis video you succeeded at analyzing the three reasons, yet certain things were over analyzed such as racism. I feel like you'd have a better time saying that the treatment towards the Manikins was racist, but even that would be a bit of a stretch. Extremes in Shin Megami Tensei will always have good traits and severely negative ones, just like real life. It's why you have to find the middleground in things and not go for extremes in real life. Nuances aren't exactly great either, as you more heavily favor one side than the other.
I mean True Demon Ending is basically saying fuck the system and decided to fight against the one who created it in the first place, in Nocturne it is easy to see the creator AKA YHVH since Lucifer practically turned us into a weapon against YHVH.
IRL? You can't do that. You can't fight against god, best you can do is fight the system maker AKA the state, or in destruction ending (we have no Reason) just destroy them all and leave them for dead
Generation X- You can choose to punch god in the face and say no. Or choose to take God with your morning coffee.
Thank you everyone for watching and commenting. I'm surprised this hit 1k views so fast! If you guys want another topic covered I'm open to any requests. Right now I'm working on some character analysis videos, starting with Yu Narukami.
Don’t you mean Chad Narukami
I haven't played all the old SMT games, but it feels like they always aim the Neutral ending (or the "good" Neutral ending in 4/apocalypse) to be the humanist ending. Nocturne doesn't really have that as much, but you can put its Reasons into political "isms" instead of personal philosophies/ideologies.
Shijima: Despotism.
Yosuga: Barbarism.
Musubi: Isolationism.
Like I could totally see North Korea or a fictitious thing like the government in the movie "Brazil" or the book "1984" as a society built on the Reason of Shijima.
Immortan Joe's clan of raiders from Mad Max is how I'd imagine a Yosuga world working. There's order, but it's purely driven by force and cruelty.
Musubi's always come across childish to me, mostly due to how Isamu presents it. But it's also got the most real-world examples, like the US up to/around the time of the civil war, or even more appropriate for the game, Japan.
Outside of political examples, Shijima's similar to the "I want to destroy everything else and then myself" attitude of a few other JRPGs that spring to mind, namely Final Fantasy 5 and 6. The idea of returning everything to a state of stillness is also kind of like an extremist Buddhist position. Despite that, the most Buddhist ending is actually the True Demon Ending, because Lucifer says he wants to end the cycle imposed on the universe by the Great Will.
Yosuga can also be kind of materialistic since the aim is to create a world ruled by the strong and beautiful, given that Chiaki always refers to herself as beautiful because she has power, and the traditionally beautiful angels following her.
Musubi could even have a positive spin taken on it, where it's a world where individuals cause the least harm to others/society as a whole, but I always feel like it's framed as the ultimate selfish world by Isamu. I guess you could also have a world for each individual be a world of undisturbed contemplation, like the idea of monks being cloistered away from society, or the stereotypical guru on a mountaintop.
All 3 of these endings are definitely bad endings in the usual SMT context: they're incomplete answers to how to create a universe.
The Aradia/Freedom ending might also be a false good ending. It looks like things are back to normal, but since the Labyrinth of Amala makes it clear that Kagutsuchi is an extension of the Great Will, that implies all 4 of those endings are actually ordered by the Great Will. Therefore, the Freedom ending isn't actually free, but just a lie that deceives everyone.
That's probably why people treat the True Demon ending as the "canon" ending, since it gives the most answers to the game's world and it rejects the Great Will's control in creating a universe. Thematically, it lines up with the idea of a "good Neutral" ending because of that.
The "demon" ending where you reject Shijima, Yosuga, Musubi, and Aradia/Freedom is like the "bad Neutral" ending where you prevent those ideas from remaking the universe, but don't have an alternative.