"Men are not piano keys" Jordan Peterson on Dostoevsky's Notes From Underground
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2017
- see the full lecture at • 2017 Personality 11: E...
In this lecture, 11th in the 2017 series, he discusses the giants of existentialism, a philosophically-grounded psychological position positing (1) that psychopathology or mental illness/distress is built into Being itself and (2) that the adoption of responsibility through action is the appropriate response.
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This actually explains why some people are against getting vaccinated. It has nothing to do with the virus and everything to do with free will.
You got that right. Someone like William Wallace would fight to the death in the name of Freedom.👍
mortality data actually
Accurate 💯💯
You mean selfishness
Yeah, because those people are irrational and even when they are faced with an option that would just provide benefits, that is, being vaccinated, they still choose not to, in a mere act of irrationality. It's dumb and irresponsible.
I am a simple man, i see Peterson, i clean my room...
VitaSineLibertatenih I buy lobsters
@@corvodraken3049 I buy lobsters and make them clean my room for me. And if any of them try to leave before it's done, the other lobsters drag them back inside.
so what you're saying is that simple men are incapable of cleaning their rooms independently
Volleybalmable he said he does clean his room
Same. (I'm a girl)
"What if being dissatisfied is part of what satisfies you?" absolutely brilliant.
LifeGame my wife totally fits that description
Yup
brain cant comprehend, brb after reboot
Sort of like how people deep down enjoy being miserable, since they feel special in a twisted way.
Dopamine and serotonin.
One of the reasons I love the Internet is that there are students, bored out of their mind, sitting in Professor Peterson's class, but there is also a captive audience of thousands of people around the world, who enjoy everything he says and stay up late in order to listen to his words.
will you be my fwend too?
That's a bit presumptive.
You only see their face, not their feeling. I was constantly being told by my teachers that I looked bored and disinterested, that I wasn't even listening. They'd pick on me to answer questions thinking I didn't know what they were saying and I'd answer immediately. It always made me chuckle when they'd say "oh" and continue what they were doing.
@@highestsettings Just like it'd be presumptive to assume they all look bored and disinterested but are actually captivated by his speech and intently listening.
Regardless you are right Hoggar the internet for all it's flaws has some pretty amazing things like globally sharing videos such as these.
I doubt those students would come to the class if the material bored them. If they really were disinterested, they could just as easily be somewhere else and watch the recorded video later. They're not required to be in the classroom, so they come there because they want to hear and see JP.
when school taught me everything i need to know except my soul... which is everything I need to grow, everything that keeps me whole everything that ever meant anything to me so I leave with golden hopes to rip the leash that holds my focus but the fact remains the same, I'm still bound by chains, it doesn't matter if your chain is 10 feet or 100 feet the fact remains the same, you still bound by chains
Can I just say the thumbnail for this video is incredible.
hell he gets me to click on his videos evry tim
Great thumbnail
Yeah, loved it too!
From the Matrix: "Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world where none suffered, where everyone would be happy? It was a disaster. No one would accept the program, entire crops were lost. Some believed that we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world, but I believe that as a species that human beings define their reality through misery and suffering. So the perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from." - Agent Smith
It was actually said by The Architect, but thank you for remind me such an awesome scene.
No it was not it was Smith in the First movie. Watch it again
@@sporegnosis oh yes. Sorry, nevermind.
Yep, exactly what came to my mind. Makes me wonder if the Wachowskis had read Dostoyevsky.
@Snaglebagel who's to say we aren't? If all reality a simulation is it not still real and does it matter?
I've listened to a couple hundred hours of his lectures....never bored, always learning. It's as if he is constantly smacking my face and screaming "Wake up. Think about this!" What a mind.
Hell, I've had massive enlightenment experiences 10 years ago, studied all the great psychological and esoteric traditions, all the authors he mentions (Jung, Campbell, Dostoyievsky, Mircea Eliade and many, many more besides), spent years applying the Work to myself and now have created myself a clinical coach practice -
And even then, I still can't stop listening to the man. I know how right he is, and how much work it represents to integrate that wisdom at an experiential level like he does. His poise just overflows with inner power. Remember when he insisted to Dyson? "Let's get precise - *precise*!"
Countless kudos!
Claude S. Whitacre I truly feel the same way!!!!! Then I copy and send it to as ma many friends as I can but his my drug jajajjaj JK he is addicting
That’s what a good teacher should do!
Also clean your room bucko. Mostly.
Definitively !!
I always felt that Notes From Underground was a long description of 4chan.
Barry Purcell
the fourm for the underground man
lmao
sam zeng Pretty much.
Lmao love it
Notes from the basement that is :P
I study Literature at college in my country, Italy. You may think it's odd for a traditionally conservative (but very chaotic, I know) country like mine, but leftist, SJW mentality is slowly entering college students' mindset even here. I absolutely hate the fact that they seem to think of me as some kind of fascist even though I'd call myself a classic liberal, but the thing I despise the most about them is their blind, cowarldy utopianism. I say cowardly because every time I try to get them to face (by reading, for instance, some good book, like Notes from the Underground, which I love) the fact that their ideology can be refuted, and brilliantly, too, they'll just shrug and not read the thing. Watching these lessons always makes me feel a lot better.
Same for germany. I was called a sexistic, harassing Nazi several times without the topic being about race etc. at all. All of that just because i spoke in the name of science and facts at an open discussion.
My statement ultimately was "my opinion may not always be the right opinion, so i need to rely on facts to find the truth".
(I'm an engineer, i want to know things for sure, not believe in my opinion)
I wouldn't say there is really anything traditionally conservative about Italy. That is more, the traditional leftist strategy of equating anything to the right of Marxism to be fascism. Being Italian, you probably got a shit-ton of brainwashing about Mussolini in your primary schooling. Fascism, in Mussolini's mind was the optimal route to Socialism. You see, no matter what anyone told you in school, Mussolini was a true believer in socialist ideals. He rejected violent class revolution outright though, which is why he split with Italian Socialist Party, who were all about that Bolshevik style slaughter. In the end though, both Mussolini and Marx's routes to socialist utopia were disastrous.
These days, fascist is just another term for skinheads and its lost all of its original meaning. One more victory for leftists and their destruction of language.
Yup, you got that right. I meant conservative as in 'more traditional religious ideas' (especially in the south) and 'more traditional ideas about the family'. Italian kids are thoroughly told, and rightfully so, about Mussolini and the horrors of fascism (and nazis), but the socialist origin of Mussolini's ideas is often...looked over. So we don't really get how dangerous utopianism, of all political colors, is; just how dangerous extreme right-wingers are. Also, if there is a people with short term memory, it's Italians. We're not as tormented by guilt as Germans, which is kinda good on one side because we don't have those culturally suicidal ideas, but it's also bad and really sad, because most Italians don't give a shit about history or about anything else. I know I sound like I'm just hating on my generation and my country and all that shit, but I just can't stand seeing all the lack of values, lack of thinking, lack of interest and curiosity, all this general zero fucks given attitude... Generally speaking,young Italians are just every bit children of nihilism like their other western peers, because nihilism, especially this nihilism for dummies they're selling on campuses, is such an easy and lazy idea to embrace. I'm not trying to sound better than anyone, I'm just saddened by the situation, it boggles my mind...as I said, I study Literature and I actually believe in the slice of truth humanities can pursue. Seeing it reduced, on a daily basis, to dynamics of power and class destroys the spirit.
2T5MUU I'm a young American guy and I thought it was just me but it seems most young people (is it just this generation or was it past ones as well?) don't want to grow up. We want the utopia where we don't have to work or be responsible, we want to drink beer all day and travel the world and fuck each other like bunnies in heat, we want it all and we want it now. I think we realize utopia is unrealistic so we find nihilism instead and that's similar in the sense that we can say oh well, we're all gonna die so who cares if I chain smoke or OD on heron or do nothing of value with my life. Peterson has opened my eyes though, because he talks about bearing our burdens and making the sacrifice and accepting life and growing up, and no one has ever articulated these lessons in such a way to me. Maybe it's because I'm done drifting around aimlessly (and I guess that's nihilism) so to find happiness and enlightenment and to reap the seeds I sow, I have to move on and grow up and bear my burden because life is suffering and I never wanted to accept that but now that actually gets me excited if that makes sense. And I've been seeing more and more young people coming to terms with this through Peterson's lectures.
I don't know about the IQ thing (and don't really care much either, I know a lot of people who score high in IQ tests and then act like bumbling idiots or robots in academic life), but we certainly don't have a great education system: it's old, rotting, and doesn't help smart people who want to actually learn to succeed. I've met a few brilliant fellow italian students, and they all went to another country for the master's degree. Thing is, we don't even have enough money to support education and research, most school buildings suck and so on, because we're spending so much money trying to manage all the immigrants we take in from Africa and Middle East, and half of the money gets eaten up by the mafia anyways. But yes, it's more a shitshow in the south than in central (where I live) or northern Italy.
"The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art - flawless, sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure.
Amazing connection. Spot on.
"Man can do what he wants, but not want what he wants." - Arthur Schopenhauer
"I hope you didn't have kids, loser"
-Arthur Schopenhauer
@@Tomme_S ?
I am reading the book and while I do not have the critical apparatuses or wish to unpack/analyse it, this is the book that has reached me to the core of my self. I feel seen and this lecture was a joy to experience!
Honestly, I only clicked the the thumbnail...
...But stayed for Jordan Peterson
You hit on Dostoevsky's greatest point...the awful and wonderful aspect of human experience that is free will...whether it's the Grand Inquisitor in Karamazov, or the passages you cite, we will do absolutely anything, including the self-destructive, to prove we have agency...free will. And this is why he is maybe as important as St. Paul in explaining Christianity to us.
jamelleholieway4 We don't have free will because we automatically attempt to prove that we have free will if we feel like we are being deprived of it. If we had free will, we could decide to be satisfied in an unstimulating environment.
I hope that you understand what I mean and that my logic is correct. I truly am a genius.
@@nihilismus9840 You're saying that a person struggling to leave an environment that is unsatisfying to them is them trying to prove to themselves or others that they have free will? Surely if one took a more physicalist perspective they'd come to a conclusion similar to that we have free will, yet it is somewhat directed by the constraints of our biology.
That's how I feel, regardless; my real question for you is why claim all people do not have free will when it is clear that humans are not simply biological robots, and that there is clearly some degree of freeness in every decision that anyone makes?
I only now just noticed your username and I am really opposed to nihilism myself, as we all cannot change the fact that we are "in the game", but we definitely can change how we play, or how we feel, or how we react, or even how our physical avatars look. There are things we can do to free ourselves, I mean that just choosing a path down which you will definitely struggle and suffer is free-will in itself, we do not have the option to not play, as even suicide is a free-will option. We have free-will within the game.
I'm just not sure that a person attempting to improve their current situation is an outcry (to themselves? or anyone) to prove they have agency in this world, as in my case, I gain money for selfish reasons, to purchase things that will bring me hedonistic joy, which I value based on my own standards of what is "cool" per say.
@@nihilismus9840 :dude dont listen Satan whispers in youre ears
I wish I was in Peterson's class. I sure as hell wouldn't be on my phone like that dude in the front row. That's why I love all these videos and why I never wanted to go to college, cause when I seek out this knowledge I have an appreciation and passion for it but if I'm forced to be in a class and sit through a lecture (like that guy) I may or may not be interested in, I'd be on my phone or falling asleep or in a different place in my head.
I wish they would film it to cut out the students, some look apathetic, and I find them off putting.
There are students in the video!? sorry guess I didn't notice them.
dman I totally disagree with your choice of the word forced; because anyone who's in University, is there by choice. At times, yes it does feel that we're forced. But that's more often than not our own conscious choice to show up to class and learn. Nobody's forcing you to attend class.
Sam Doohan and what if some of those students are perfectly happy with being reduced to piano keys and prosperity is exactly what they want? Even in Dostojewsky's Russia most people were not as described by him in this quote. We must remember that bolshevic revolution has been led by small group of insane individuals. Most people are not insane, because they are delusional about them being free. They are unaware of being piano keys and its good for them. Some people, that are intelligent and educated enough, know the truth about their freedom, but repress it getting busy with pursuing goals like careers. They are much like Christians who don't really believe but keep their religious practices just for the peace of mind. They repress what they know is true about human condition. And its good. What is not good and bring destruction, are unsuccessful individuals who are obsessed with the meaning of life to justify their relative socioeconomic failure. So when Dr Peterson talks about human condition it hardly describe physicists and mathematicians on his university, but the other end of the spectrum very much so. Don't get me even ask the question how does it corellate to IQ.
liambeatz I used that word for two reasons. 1) when they put you through the system it feels a lot like college is shoved down your throat and to break out of that rat race takes a lot of courage and independence because regardless of what every person concerned with the outcome of your life might say there is more than one path to success. A lot of people in college are probably just going through the motions because that's what they were supposed to do and they don't even know what they want or how to get it. Peterson himself has even said college is never never land, an excuse to not grow up and join the real world, to continue lacking any real responsibility or accountability and the trade off is indentured servitude. College is pressured on people because it's a signal but the job market is so watered down with recent liberal arts degree holders that I don't think it's as powerful of a signal as before.
2) someone already explained in a comment above. If they're majoring in some degree unrelated to philosophy or psychology but this class is a requirement or they just need the credits then yes they're forced to go to graduate and they're probably not interested in Dostoevsky or Jung or anything Peterson is saying cause they just need to pass and keep their GPA up. You could probably zone out most of the class and fuck around on your phone and then get everything you need for homework in a textbook. What Peterson is talking about is enlightening to say the least but from my perspective if I was in a class I would take it for granted too just cause I have such a negative idea of school and classrooms and I tend to shut down and literally nod off in those situations because of that. So taking this (and any) information in on my own time through CZcams and online classes really suits me better I guess.
The people who criticize Peterson and his success - I wonder how many of them have done this level of analysis on ANYTHING - in their personal, professional, or academic lives.
Critical thought often requires unlearning and that's probably out of the scope of their immediate proximal development.
@@linkinparkrulz2275 Mmhmm.
I mean, I'm sure some of them have.
@@User123t5ae shut up nerd
@@User123t5ae Whoa, he has followers?? Yikes!
I’m currently reading this book and after hearing Jordan break it down I’m like “damn I gotta read this again” lol. I wish Jordan did a commentary on these books so I could have his wisdom at hand while reading.
I learned Russian to read Dostoevsky in his original language. Much. much more powerful than translated into English.
No joke I've read this exact chapter yesterday and youtube is reccomending me this video. Coincidences like that make me question reality
Irithyll Beats synchronous or coincidence? You chose.
Foreal its past the point where I can blame it on my phone or Alexa listening to me these coincidences almost seem to transcend the capabilities of anything 3-dimensional having any part in it
Watch 'The Truman Show' movie my friend.
Question your electronics and technology, not reality
Any one who has lived through high school knows this is true for the huge majority of the population. We do stupid acts, knowing they are stupid, just to prove we are independent of those wise people who try to guide us.
this is a very good example. this is why kids today still need to read this book. the lessons dostoevsky taught are timeless
The Brothers Karamazov is the best book ever written.
K Dub did you read every book? wow i'm STUNNED! pick up proust, joyce, nietzsche, sartre, borges, camus, Fitzgerald, Beckett, wilde, aristophanes, ETC
Settle down Matty, he's allowed to have a favorite.
Proust, Sartre, Camus, always the same select few French authors, ignoring the greatest of the 20th century : Louis-Ferdinand Céline.
Not forgetting Brigette Jones Diary.
Holy shit Matty, take a chill pill, mate.
This video is why I'm subscribed to this channel. His lectures are so thought provoking.
I realised this as a child while daydreaming about heaven, that it would be utterly unsatisfying.
I read C.S. Lewis as an older child, and his depictions of heaven were far more compelling than the simplistic 'freedom from all sufferring and necessities' ideas I got from churchgoers. I found them insipid and oversimple when set beside the high drama of moral duty and war in heaven and showing compassion in the midst of a ruthless culture.
Such depictions are in _Perelandra_ , _The Great Divorce_ , and _The Last Battle_ .
Andre Costin Then heaven is different.
Andre Costin. Me too. Although I think life is a dream anyway.
If good and perfection and love are unsatisfying, then heaven isn't where you will choose to go. God sends no one anywhere. When we die we gravitate towards what resonates with our hearts. If chaos and darkness and death resonates, we will choose the place where others of like spirit are creating that very reality. If light and love and peace and beauty delight us, we still choose the place which reflects that. In no way are we placed where we don't want to be. Perhaps we don't like the consequences of what we have chosen, but that's a different topic all together. God is all about free will. He wants us to choose Him and His Kingdom freely because love must be free of it is truly love. We have all rights to freely choose the dark realm too. God doesn't want robots. That's the other guy. The other guy is obsessed with control.
Depends on the world you are escaping from.
I love the thumbnails soooo much. Who would've ever imagined that college-level lectures would have meme-like thumbnails with thug-life glasses and everything? Who would've ever guessed that a professor and his EDUCATIONAL lectures would go viral?
I love this man so much. So much to be grateful for.
I think Mr. Spock quoted this concept best. "After a time you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting.It is not logical, but it is often true."
The irony is that I read the Underground Man and was horrified at the aspects of myself that related to him. I saw him as a man I didn't want to become, yet today happened.
That's the point of the book
Theres certainly no call to embrace Peterson's perverse take. Dostoyevsky wouldn't have liked Peterson nearly as much as Peterson likes Dostoyevsky.
Dude Im 25 years old woman I totally can relate with that character.
@@tescheurich What did Peterson get wrong? His analysis sounds correct and objectively shared with many other laureates across a varied landscape of disciplines. Care to enlighten us?
I've just finished reading this book. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Incredible
The cool thing about this is that it is basically Heidegger's criticism about Technology. Dostoievski is GOAT
Absolutely amazing line of reasoning.
I know for myself, most if if not all of the “issues” in my life I am upset with are correctible if I put in the work. Perhaps the perfect life is having normal problems and being able to successfully tackle them and being rewarded with the feeling of accomplishment. But of course living true to yourself goes hand in hand with this.
I really would like to see the exams he prepares
This is brilliant, I was just talking about this with my roommate. If everything was good, would anything be good?
Notes is more edgy than that. It isn't about why you would want some sweat and some sour in life. It is about how having both, neither, or everything you would set out to wreck your world kind of thing.
It is as in music there is discord that is then resolved... wait, there is some guy breaking a guitar apart over there.
David Fitzgerald no. Not on this planet. What's good for some will NOT be good for others. Though on an individual basis there can be a satisfactory contentment achieved through personal evolution. Life has three basic tenets, health, wealth and relationships. How we choose to relate within this reality will manifest our perceived outcome. One man, one lived experience. What will I express, project, create, or destroy as I fumble about in this what we deem LIFE. BTW may yours be filled with all the joy you can handle. ;-)
It reminds me of what the good dragon says in skyrim. Something to the effect of, it's better to be evil and to become good rather than to have always been good and never known any different.
I think if we resolve to always get a better guitar, then It's not all bad.
That reminds me of The Incredibles when Buddy (Syndrome) wants to give everyone super powers. "When everyone is super, then no one will be."
He will be relevant at all times, as it affects a lot of topics that require attention and understanding always and almost for any generation. This great writer was a profound psychologist. In his works shows such a depth of penetration into the human soul, which did not dream of modern psychotherapists. Read Dostoevsky, think and develop!
japan will retake the kurils sakhalin and Vladivostok south korea will take north korea.
One of the great values of a hobby, is that satisfies (or at least indulges) this itch to be in a struggle.
Excellent! Thank you.
Reminds me of Biblical story of Adam and Eve. Given everything, we will still fuck it up.
Underrated comment
I see your point but it is technically impossible. Let’s say you could be given everything. Every atom, every modicum of whatever. There is still you. So it’s incomplete. Like a wave in the ocean. It may reach out for a moment but soon it will return to the collective. It is not capable of emancipation like a human is. We simply perceive it as something separate from the main water body.
How did they fuck up? They were infantile and god put his burning pit right in the middle of room.
but maybe men don't want what is given but what they want
@MrMorphicus Exactly, like a child burning themselves on a stove because of their ignorance.
What a great professor.
I want to show my gratitude for the creation of this video and give back to it by commenting for algorithm sakes.
But I will give someone that to me... is pure honesty and communicated to you at the best of my ability.
This...
Video..., Jordans explinatioms and... his ability to spread this, even to me.
I love this. I want it to be understood by more. I wish for this to be seen.
What a jewel of a video and also great job with the thumbnail.
Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding... And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy
~ Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet
That's lovely. 🙏 💞
"Why, look you now, how unworthy a thing you make of me! You would play upon me. You would seem to know my stops. You would pluck out the heart of my mystery. You would sound me from my lowest note to the top of my compass. And there is much music, excellent voice, in this little organ, yet cannot you make it speak? 'Sblood, do you think I am easier to be played on than a pipe? Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me." - Hamlet Act 3, Scene 2
Always thought there was a direct line from Shakespeare to Distoyevski (to Kafka).
Absolutely brilliant lecture.
Love the brilliant thumbnails!
The main similarity between a wise person and a fool, is that they both seek perfection. The difference comes when the wise person realizes that the universe is so vast and complex, that the infinite variables of it and the limits of our senses makes perfection impossible to achieve. So the wise man becomes humble when he realizes that a big order of things governs the universe and that he is not a part of the world, but an entity that is composed of the inheritance of all the individuals who came after him...and for that reason, chooses to perpetuate it. The fool will just try to blame something or someone for his lack of understanding of the things. Because to the fool the most important thing in this world is himself, so he will try to validate himself before the world for his approval (the world being the public opinion, the masses). And the fool will hate the wise, because the wise chooses not to be part of the world and chooses based in faith and actions. The fool thinks that just believing is enough, and avoids anything that could potentially prove him wrong. The wise will put his faith to the test, and if his belief is wrong he will retract and try to correct his error. If a scientist can not prove his hypothesis, he modifies it or tries to formulate a new one which he will also test, repeating this until he finds the truth.
God blessed.
well put from a Spiritual Scientist perspective
The more you know, the more you know that there is more you need to know.
Not all Scientists are wise, just as not all Priests are holy...
Richard V Sassoon Dont worry about them. Worry about you. Either way it's the best (and only) thing to do.
cronoschild a fool will think he knows everything because he doesn't know how much he doesn't know.
This is the good that comes from University. Great job Dr. Peterson!!!
The story behind this message is incredible!! Wow.
This is the best speech I have ever heard .When something weird happen ,can not explain rationally,it's help
In a way I feel this during summer breaks from college. After one month I’m bored out of my mind because I have everything I need and no challenge to tackle. I end up having to put myself into self made challenges but man its just not the same. And when I’m at college I love it even though its exhausting and at times miserable. I guess I just really need something to overcome to help justify my life’s purpose. I dont know.
My brother many of us feel this way. Take it one day at a time, what can you challenge yourself with in one day? There's exercise, money making, studies, enjoying music, enjoying video media, perhaps even more trivial things like simply being kind to one person per day, or having a positive interaction with a stranger, or even cooking a meal that is good to your taste. I hope you are well today. Our purpose in this game is to choose a purpose, you and I are both in university, we have chosen a master (for now), personally my future master will be money, I want to be rich as fuck.
This book (Notes From the Underground) floored me when I first read it, though it didn't sink in as well the first time. Dr. Peterson really did a great job here with his commentary. It's a bit startling, the last couple minutes of this video.
burn that book notes from the underground i hate it.
This is my favorite Jordan Peterson video.
Great stuff Mr, Peterson!
Notes From Underground has been a favorite for years. I can say that on every page I was either astonished at a point he made or chuckled out loud at his humor. Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky, Kierkegaard, and Thoreau are all wonderful (unless you're a collectivist).
The world needs just as many collectivists as individualists, and it needs us to fight over it every damn day.
@@tescheurich collectivism is a lie. It's a falsehood. It's wrong. It's unfree. It's totalitarianism. It's evil. Individualism is truth and freedom, and better for the collective at large than collectivism itself.
@@ollikoskiniemi6221 by all means, be a bezzerwizzer for amusement on the internet. If you occasionally listened to collectivists, you'd know what a dead-end self indulgence that is once it has gone on long enough.
My favorite part of the book is his dream on the Greek Isles, It creates such a powerful image.
A masterpiece by itself had Dr. Peterson's lecture conceived to be.
Love the thumbnail lmao. Nice touch.
You got me on 'it's only about a hundred pages long'.
Compared to the phone books 📚 of the rest of his books lol
Despite being only a hundred pages the first 40 or so are quite dense. The second half moves much quicker. But I found that I had to slow down and really pay close attention in that first portion.
Colin what did you think though? Did you get anything from it?
@@craigsips8677 - Admittedly, I will have to read it again sometime to absorb it all. But it's definitely funny in how pathetic that the Underground Man acts and gives you a good laugh. But it also made me reflect on how silly and spiteful I can personally act at times. How nonsensical I can be (we can all be that way I'd assume). This is not a character to emulate.
Colin may have a look for myself. The good thing about dead authors is that their work can be easily found on the net for free.
Thanks Colin
I believe one of the purposes in life is to maintain order, and that the world in inherently chaotic or moves towards chaos. For example:
Don't clean your house,
don't wash your dished,
don't maintain your lawn,
don't fix your car,
don't fix the leaks in your roof,
don't maintain your relationship,
don't work hard,
don't improve yourself
and see what happens, your life will slowly start to deteriorate and fall into chaos.
You are happiest when you have your life in order.
One rule of life, don't force others to do stuff they don't want to (unless your are responsible for them), some people have to taste the bitterness of chaos in order to learn the value of order.
...and I have met those who do not understand why they are in chaos.
Came only to note the great thumbnail keep it up dudes x
Hahahaha that thumbnail is fire my dude!
Excellent critique of modernity!
All religions are based on hate of the modern. They profess to favor stagnation over innovation, they assume that there is an upper limit on the value of human ideas, and they value death over life.
I read Dostoevsky and converted to the Russian Orthodox Church.
@ I doubt wether you understood 'Nietzsche', when that is the conclusion you make after reading his philosophy.
@@tommydebruin2949 I doubt whether you even understand what doubt even is. Or why there's a letter 'b' in it.
@ care to elaborate?
Hmmm ok
But he was an atheist
If I happen to be his student I won't understand anything but would still be amazed at his teaching.
This is one of his most valuable lecture that dismantle the modern way of living...
Even though it may be impossible to be purely good in this world I will strive to ask myself: "How can I become better and, even if I fail, will I become better by that effort?"
MisterAwestasia Failure teaches you 10x more than success. Look at your accomplishments numerically (repetition and so on). That way you can know for sure just how much better you are getting.You
if conceptual ideals (idealism) are essentially or even simply theoretically impossible to attain then what purpose does the concept serve and why does idealism exist and why is it continually in the perifary/perameters of our awareness or consciousness? idealisms of all kinds are included within the spectrum of universal possibilities as a goading vehicle for progress towards learning and growth and for that reason alone have been accepted as a conceptual functional benefic that serves the ego much less than it serves the development of integrity. it's 'okay' to have ideals and to strive towards them, but self awareness makes or breaks how functional and far they can be taken. it's the self awareness/self observation part that determines the overall achievement of functional ideals for society as a whole. enlightenment itself is an achievable ideal but same as utopian ideals it is not exactly what the western mind thinks it is.
we would not have civilization or an educational system if idealism were not an actively functional benefic. MrAwestasia has demonstrated applied idealism.
Notes From Underground is one of my favorite books, second only to The Book of Disquiet.
Fantastic name😷🤗🦂
Tuga?
Gracias por compartir el video con subtitulos en español!
There is diffenately something about working on a difficult project for four days and to finally succeed with good results. You go through a whole range of emotion in a few days. Vision, a step into action and risk, a gradual overcoming of known obstacles, the shock and doubt of new unforeseen obstacles, overcoming those and seeing your vision taking shape, and final victory and success of seeing the finished vision to completion.
4 days? 4 years perhaps a lifetime
Lololol.. the thumbnail for the video!
I'm 100% heterosexual but if I ever had the chance to meet Dostoevsky I would turn 99% gay. I was not a reader in high school, I wasnt the best student at all but Crime and Punishment was the only book I have read entirely in those 4 years, and I was captivated by it. Since then, I have read probably everything Dostoevsky has written, and Crime and Punishment I have read at least 5 times. Honestly, I don't think there has ever been a better writer in our entire history. I'm currently re-reading Demons and one of the topics there is also the criticism of the "new idea" that will save the country and humans, but it's nothing but an empty shell... Anyways...absolutely love mr. Peterson.
that is soooo good! wow.
In high school, we read a host of Dostoyevsky. It was along the path of getting a BA/MA in psychology & getting accepted into a doctoral program.
There's no rational explanation for why that person is on his phone during a JBP lecture.
Aaron Laflin the only one I can think of is that he knew the lecture would be made available on CZcams and he could view the lecture again whenever he wanted; perhaps when he was less hungover
Maybe he wants to prove he is not a piano key even at the cost of missing a JBP lecture.
Aaron Laflin . 👍😂Where would you like me to start?
Fun factoid: Von Mises went into detail on the nature of human action the notion of satiation of all preference, and how thought and action are only possible where preference is unmet and there is something man sees and thinks "this should change!". In a state of nature where there is no unmet want, man no longer exists. Instead a zen-like being, empty of any consideration at all. He would be less than a cow.
do you have exact citation?
sequorroxx no, that is the excuse for letting ourselves off the hook.
when nothing is left to do, learning to increase our appreciation for that and to cultivate thoughts and actions which maintain that are what must be done, and what give us pleasure. (we can learn to enjoy almost anything. wed have a chance then to learn to enjoy utopia. (it requires effort to enjoy, which defines it as utopia. consider this against every other processed option, you can see why we fail.))
one option is akin to working and playing hard and then fairly winning the Stanley cup, anf afterward seeing our name inscribed.
The other is akin to stealing it, putting our name on it and claimng we won it. Our culture rewards this, processed paths to happiness cultivates this.
but we are capable of paradigm shift when the opportunity arises, and we'll need to be to get and remain there.
a person who insists on having a problem to solve will start creating them if left with none too long. But that is not the true limit of people.
the comment fazes people who live externally but describes only them.
fenrisvargen That Mises book is called Human Action.
@@user-un5iz6th1n You put it beautifully friend. We are more malleable than many believe, it is up to ourselves to make our lives happy and meaningful, as it is simply unrealistic for every single tiny need to be met in full.
They phrase things that we have no free will as if it is even possible for a person to be completely satisfied with everything in life, I think the yin and yang, the Dao, is more true to life than any nihilist bullshit.
Holy. This is powerful.
The thumbnail is amazing
Maybe people just have a blueprint in their subconscious that tells them what they are. If the blueprint says the person probably will never make any money, the person acts that way, even if it appears that they DO have a bit of money.
It can get worse than that.
It's why lottery winners frequently wind up in exactly the same place they were before they won the money.
The blueprint is called the 'self image.'
It is, from what I think I know, the most powerful aspect of a personality.
It moulds reality in its own image.
It's not just in money. Suppose the person's blueprint or self image is that he doesn't do well with women. The person acts out this reality, and then finds it to be true, because he made the situation in his own image.
I used to actually feel that I was no good with women. My mother pointed out all the women I had around me, and suggested that my inner image was wrong. When I approached women with a better self image, the results were astounding.
Changing the self image, or blueprint, is the principle object of success training. If a person hates himself, or sabotages himself, it is essential to change the self image first, before success can occur. Apply this to any challenge and I think you'll see that this is right.
I"m sure there are people out there who may have other insights into these subjects. I'd like to hear what others have to say. I'm not a psychologist. I'm a reporter, photographer, and writer. I have been at this stuff since I was around 12 years old. Actual psychology students may have other interesting view points to add.
This is why this lecture is confusing. Peterson himself admits in other lectures that your imagination can create a new 'image' for your future, and you can BE better. Yet, here, he's almost saying that humans are doomed to irrational-dysfunction because we'll always seek out problems even if there are none.
"Yeah, you can grow, but you'll always return to your irrational nature." -Pretty much sums most of Peterson's lectures on human beings.
Jam Jox
That's what psychoanalysis calls a pathology, a natural or 'native' pattern that one returns to by default.
The painful, distressing question to be drawn from this criticism.. if such a utopian ideal is so counter-progressive to the nature of man, if the mass majority of men possess these "flaws" which would label them in need healing - and the minority, those that seek to do this healing.. who, then, of the two parties is truly insane? Whom is really the more destructive of the two?
Personally, this is a question I contend with every day and.. may for the rest of my days.
ooooh, that is a tough question. i like it
@@scribej5473 what do you think the answer is? Much of the time I do believe that trying to heal what ails others goes against nature and so those that heal suffer more for it
@@TheeStoicc perhaps all people would be better off healing themselves? maybe mine, yours, and everyone else's ideas about life and purpose are just mental gymnastic distractions that satiate us just enough to keep on finding meaning in life. personally I have found self-improvement to be very beneficial to mental health
There's an underlying assumption here which I don't agree with; namely that someone who is flawed cannot well heal someone else, or themselves. If there is a surgeon has only one leg, he is clearly disabled but may still be able to provide excellent surgical assistance to someone whose physical condition demands it.
Why should it not be thus also with mental healing? As long as the one assisting with the healing does everything within his power to make sure his particular illness does not affect the healing process of the other, there is no necessity of failure.
@@xn85d2 I agree, the idea certainly wouldn't be binary - we can all heal each other in diverse and nuanced ways. Sometimes those who are flawed help and heal others: those who are familiar and aware with what they themselves are going through and see it in others - something like depression I imagine.
I think the real difficulty may be in seeing and understanding that there is an attainable alternative to our perspectives and suffering - if no one ever teaches you that and you don't acquire the notion from books or other media, you can very easily live the rest of life accepting the status quo of how one's life has turned out. Maybe the answer is education
I've never read this dostoyevsky has made another brilliant point and thank you Jordan for giving me this "light" to shine in my "darkness"
Thank you Mr. Peterson
Maslow makes clear that we have a hierarchy of needs and you only discover the higher needs once you are well fed. There are no short cuts. You must, absolutely must, start by learning to provide for yourself. Only once you are secure in that need will you discover that 'Men are not piano keys' and there is more to life than bread and circuses.
Balzac was a huge influence on Dostoyevsky, who translated some of his work from French to Russian. You should read some of his work called the "Human Comedy" if you want very practical and detailed examples of what Dostoyevsky and Nietzsche refined and explained. It's also a good way to delve into some seemingly more trivial details of psychology and society which Dostoyevsky and Nietzsche didn't really develop.
Balzac was a huge influence on Engels and other humanists but you will never even hear and acknowledge the historical facts or basic economics presented in Kapital. Because it is much easier to be like others, to listen to this sophist parrot his agenda. Look around, there are more people who would rather believe "evil is our nature, capitalism is just nature" - rather than see things with your own eyes.
9am - finished the underground man. 11am - watching this JP lecture. What an incredible, beautiful day, this is.
These thumbnails are really getting me to come back to the videos.
Jesus christ, looking back at my teens i was the so called "underground man" or at least was possessed by the spirit of it. Really scary and gives me chills looking back.
That's certainly not unusual for teens to have cycled through such times
After watching this, I'm reminded of Lori Loughlin and the college admissions scandals going on right now. Being rich and famous, she has it all, and yet she is engaged in cheating for her daughters.
For freaking USC. LOL. Not even a school that's hard to get into
"viciously funny and psychologically alive" wonderful praise. love this book.
Brilliant!!
The clear inability of the students to focus fully on the speaker says volumes about declining attention spans. I am quite sure that the inability today to listen carefully to what people are saying (regardless of who the speaker is) poses an existential problem to our civilisation.
Denian Arcoleo. I think you will find that the gestalt of what Mr Peterson is saying can be gleaned, by his message, the details are merely thought provoking examples. Kudos to him, but I understand his student's. I am also happy he continues to help countless people across the globe, merely by his words.
This is why the first matrix failed. Entire crops were lost...Mr Anderson
Now that is an experience of learning something.
I have often thought that excellence has only one real enemy and that is the notion of perfection.
you can download almost all dostoesvsky'S books on pirate bay......
Right? There are also these things called libraries which generally are completely free. Used books are dirt cheap too.
i prefer pdf
Or buy old copies for a couple bucks each, if you don't like reading on a screen.
dostoevskty is no doubt out of copyright and therefore free. Try Gutenberg
You can get them for free on Kindle through amazon.com
Short version: life is shit and you should be happy about that.
No, life is amazing and in order to recognize the beauty of life one has to stop pretending like suffering isn't a part of the beauty. Peterson constantly talks about how men turn their lives around when they willingly take on their burden. They paradoxically begin feeling better once they take on more responsibility and that means that suffering isn't this bad thing we should strive to abolish. Rather like a tool, it is in our interest to learn how to handle it as it is key to seeing the meaning in life. And pretending to be happy isn't the way to do this, the point of the story where the man doesn't actually change but instead just says he changed and ends up ruining someone else's life, is that you have to willingly face reality and that means being honest with yourself.
power50001562 I agree. Working or attacking a problem no matter what your position is is positivity in motion. So you already get a sense of peace the very fact your getting something down about your problem.
Deep...serious food for thought
Brilliant!
Dostoevsky was not an influence on Nietzsche. Nietzsche discovered Dostoevsky in 1887, after having completed his major works. Nietzsche described Dostoevsky as a happy accident (Twilight of Idols, 45, Pg 110 Penguin classics edition of Twilight of Idols and The Antichrist, translated by R. J. Hollingdale ). Peterson is wrong from the first sentence.
but it didn't influence his works since he discovered him after finishing them. Talk with evidence from Nietzsche himself not this living meme.
"God is dead."
The End. I win. All the internet points.
He read Dostoevsky during the most fruitfull time of his life
Nietzsche read Dostoevsky late in life, so it is not correct to say that Dostoevsky inspired Nietzsche's philosophy. Nietzsche briefly commented that he admired Dostoevsky's psychological understanding of the human condition. Of course, Nietzsche was an atheist, who wanted to move past religion to a more authentic, affirmative and optimistic future for humanity. Dostoevsky was a pessimist who could not come to terms with life without God and religion. Dostoevsky turned away from reason. Nietzsche combines reason and the will, by affirming both in their respective contexts.
I'm really interested in your source for "mainstream science is now concluding that there is a high probability that we live in a created simulation".
He doesn't have a source for it because there isnt one
Peterson didn't read them, he's just speculating. People who choose to educate are very stupid and bitter. They don't have the talent to do serious academic work. Peterson is just a celeb for majority who do not care.
You do know he's had his own clinical practice for a very long time now, and that he doesnt just teach, right...?
And? Does it mean he is right? I doubt you are neurotic or epileptic or depressed thanks to a communist ideology which is non-existent. It's just a meme about Russia, for the great majority of people who are aware about it.
Means nothing, why doesn't he stay there in the department of psychology? Look, I will be honest. He is a good lecturer when it comes to psychology but it is CLEAR that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He uses this Jungian projection as his argument against crazed leftists, explaining how they are resentful, broke, low status and so on. Ironically he sees the world through his own ideological lenses. That he is the clinical psychologist and a professor DOES not make him into authority, DOES not give him the authority to speak politics and philosophy, especially since if he does not know what he is talking about.
BTW I love Psychoanalysis but it is and even was, at the time of its heights, considered to be a pseudo-science. Jung was not even acknowledged within Freud's group. His thesis was not scientific enough even within Freud's circle. Peterson is a loon or a conman with his conservative agenda. I bet his real goal is to become elected in Canada. Look around 99% of people are capitalists and there will parrot his bs at anybody who dares to question.
Goosebumps.
Wow good stuff