Audi R8 V10 - rare engine failure
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 04. 2022
- In this video, we explain the damage that occurred to a customer's well maintained, low-mileage Audi R8. It's rare for something like this to happen to such a cherished vehicle, but it does illustrate what can go wrong with these expensive V10 motors.
Contact us for all your supercar maintenance and tuning requirements!
CHECK OUT OUR NEW MERCH!👇
reperformance.co.uk/shop/
#PoweredByMotul
www.motul.com
✅ Standalone engine management specialists Syvecs Ltd & MoTeC
✅ State of the art MAHA Dynamometers 4WD dyno facility
✅ Maintenance and tuning for R8, Lamborghini, Ferrari, McLaren
✅ Official Akrapovic Exhaust System dealers
-----------------------------
Check out Pro-Detail uk for Xpel paint protection film, Ceramic Pro nano coatings, paint correction, preparation & appearance
-----------------------------
📞01793278069
📱07786170031
📧info@REPerformance.co.uk
🌎www.REPerformance.co.uk - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Perfectly explained and shown. Horribly unlucky failure and problematic solution
That is such a shame, the fact that he has been impeccable with his treatment of the car to then have that happen is sad. I hope it all works out for him.
Happy Thursday Rickster. Looking forward to giving this one a watch! Have a good Easter buddy. Nick
been in the trade for 40 years never built an engine without a new oil pump Really enjoying your videos
OUCH! What a horrible situation. I gather the engine was bone stock. How old, and how many miles? Your description of the owner’s use of the car suggests this is not a case of high revs and cold oil. I have owned from new a 2018 R8 (532 hp, not the + version), and it is a wonderful, beautifully made car. Thank you for this video even though it may cause me to lose some sleep. I feel the owner’s pain.
More grace bro, God bless your work, I so admire your jobs 🎉
Thanks so much
As a lover of engines, the heat damage is making me sick… I feel for the owner…..
Did you strip the oil pump and are there any internal clearances you can measure on the lobes in the pump ? Curious to see the internals of that. Knowing the detail you go into, I`m pretty sure you`ll have taken it apart :)
As you say, a very odd problem and not knowing the cause it the sad part. If you could share a rough cost, that would be dead interesting. I have no idea how much repair bills are for this sort of job.
I`m curious, why are you so against using the pistons on a new block ? I`ve not heard of that before. Really good explanation as to why Line Boring is out. As you`ve had engines where you have swapped to Carillo roads, do you have the old stock ones on a shelf you can take 2 from ? Obviously this is the sort of discussion you have with the customer, just thinking how I`d try and keep the cost down on this sort of failure. !
Very well explained
Very nicely explained, especially the case against line boring. Talk about bad luck. On the upside that block would make a cool coffee table?
I have just watched this and I wondered how this was resolved for the owner as its been nearly three months. I think I would be looking around for a good used unit from a written off car, I'm sure there are a few that have come to a sticky end. What is your view - good idea or too rmuch of a risk? Great channel and content.
Could you some how rig up and do a bench test on the oil pump to see what pressure it’s putting out?
Interesting video 👍 I wonder if the rod cap bolt stretched first which dropped the oil pressure on that end of the crank journal aswell.
Sitting at a set of lights is hardly going to do that. Hammering it around a track might well do so but not in this case by the sounds of it. Ricky said he baby's the car so he ain't going to hammer it on a public road.
How many km / milles on the engine don you recall ? Love the videos 👍🏻👍🏻
Ricky I'm watching this 8 months down the line, is there an update on what eventually was decided and happened to rectify the unfortunate situation?
Interesting.I have to say that almost everyone applys too much sealer to casing surfaces.
It's a bit of a sweeping remark but some of the stuff i see is real scary.
Tricky one to try and diagnose.
hi boss we have done v10tt engine for 1500 plus hp but we have a issue cam timing jumps like 1 and 2 teeth we try to fix it like every thing changing solenoids, cams, cam phaser, chain everything we have same issue again and again in three v10 engine im very thank to you if you give us any opinion.
Had an oil check valve stick open with a tiny bit of debry after a hard rev once on an audi a6 dropped oil pressure but lifters on one side rattled
Yeah servicing is key!!
Good idea to record oil pressure for workshop analysis. I guess that is commonplace in racing telemetry systems?
Shouldn't be difficult for manufacturers to add similar tech to this level of road car.
Great channel by the way.
Great point! We use oil pressure and crank pressure logging on all our builds, but yes I agree on road cars they could do with a gauge at least!!
Easter Greetings from New Zealand.
Please do more C6 RS6 videos :)
Similar thing happened to my s2000, took great care and suddenly one of the main failed. Before it happen had a bit of crank walk, and car was having false knock at 1k rpm.. painful to watch
Saw the bike in the background. Would be great to mix in a few bike videos 🏍💨
Man, absolutely gutting for the guy.
Rick help a brother out please, What king bearigs go on S6 5.2 v10?
I understand the issue with line boring the cap & block, so what process was used in manufacture, there is obviously a method to machining this issue.....
Honestly, in the absence of anything else, I'd be curious about the oil viscosity the owner was using and if the appropriate amount came out when you started disassembly. I've recently gone a bit heavier in my 5.0 Gallardo since I plan on tracking it and don't want to run out of "film" at high temp/rpm.
Raising the oil viscosity gives oil temp issues. This was on correct oil.
Fascinating and terrifying in equal measure!
Agreed!
Interesting case. Am keen to know the actual cause if that’s ever found..
I had a lotus engine fully refreshed with forged stuff some years ago and that blew the first time it reved over 4k (after 1000km of running in slowly). Similar burned bearings on 2 cylinders. 1 rod completely melted. Oil pump was a 2 year old monkeywrench one. So should be good. Hence, My 2c is wrong torque on rod bearings on 2 of them. Utter bummer…luckily Lotus is cheaper to mess up..
Any signs that the main bearing shell had delaminated? Have seen this before, where the bearing lining actually loses its bind to the steel backing of the shell, this results in the bearing lining starting to wipe. Also any signs of distortion or debris in the back of the shell?
No it’s all too damaged to tell! How good the other bearings look would point this to being a localised issue from either low pressure, a small amount of debris or actual bearing failure like you say!
A great explanation, terrific video. But made me wonder why do they not use aluminum crank caps, that will then line hone? I assume there is a good reason for that?
They are steel cap inserts in the lower girdle, that’s just how it is designed by the factory! Problem is when the material is different the line bore pushes off the harder material!
The pressure from the cylinder firing is pushing back towards the crankshaft, so the caps are made from a stronger material. When bearings wear they quite often show more wear on the bottom half for this reason.
Great explanation. Something to note, here in the States at least some auto manufacturers will cover part or all of a failure of a component even if it's no longer under warranty. They don't advertise it. I had a Chrysler component fail due to build quality and the dealership provided me with a number to plead my case to Chrysler & they offered about half the cost of the replacement. Granted it cost no where near as this and is a totally different company. But with such a premium brand & a pro like you in their corner to vouch that he babied the car Audi may have decided that to cover such bizarre rare failure seeing it would bode well for their brand reputation. Also it would help not to sour the customer (or other potential customers) on the brand, especially one who can afford such an expensive machine & will surely spend a great amount for a car in the future. If for some reason they don't budge theres always we're in talks with the local news or such & such magazine wants to interview us for an article about this, etc. Lastly I wouldn't go chucking that block just like that. I know it may be something you wouldn't want to risk messing with but it may be worth something to someone with the skillset to take the gamble & bring it back to life. Cheers from San Antonio Texas! 🤠
Looks a mess! Can the oil pump not be tested?
I love your Jobs brother 🎉
🙏🏼🙏🏼
4k get a drysump system ? Be a better option?
Tig weld build it up and then rebore it ?
Poor sod!
Really feel for him!
On the pile pump can’t you put it on a test rig and run it and test it reliably provides the spec performance rather than throwing away a possibly good pump costing £4,000 or can it be rebuilt rather than replaced for less money!
Also it’s a guess that low oil pressure was the cause could it be a factory fault to the block casting oil galleries constricting the oil pressure to the last main bearing not the pump at all?
I think some money spent on further diagnosing would be well spent not only in terms of not replacing good parts “in case” but also on being sure the fault that caused it is definitely removed!
Ur changing the crank centerline is the word ur looking for
Love ur channel btw bro the super technical engine vids are awesome. I'm a 15 year tech myself and I don't gwt to work on the exotic stuff like that so it's cool to learn what I can from ur stuff.
@REPerformance UK, what was the outcome? Hopefully your client is now sorted.
Absolutely gutted for the guy!
Could you spray weld the journal and re machine? Or would you still have the issue of steel vs ali while machining?
Yes very unfortunate! The question is would you take the risk on that failing and wiping out another engine……
@@REPerformanceUK that is very true! I suppose all the time the failure is kinda unknown there is no knowing if it could happen again. How hard is it to find a good second hand unit?
Could it related to clearance?
Now I am curious as to what happened to the engine/car.
Very interesting and disappointing failure . As you say, normally with investigation we can figure out what happened. I don’t think it’s oil pump, because is would show in other areas. If it was a machining intolerance, it would have shown before now. It’s very unusual for a main bearing to failure in any case. Nothing has come loose. Somehow, it must be lack of lubrication to that bearing? Very unusual
Possible to weld damaged main journal , and machine to tolerance. This would preserve the crank centre line. Commonly done to reclaim obsolete classic stuff. Not the best option but would be a more economical repair
We have looked in to this! Build the crankcase upper main back up or even make an insert. The question is would you take the risk as the owner with the cost of another failure?
@@REPerformanceUK As you state in the video, money and circumstances plays a massive part in the customers choices. If it were this option or gamble on the oil pump I'd take this one.
I would weld a bearing to the block journal on the depressed spot with the crank and girdle installed 😃
A bearing would be too soft.
I really pity that poor( well he will be if he has the engine rebuilt) owner. Ricky you genuinely look gutted for the man. Fair play to you.
That’s the law of sod. As an engineer of 40 years I have seen some crazy things. I spoke to the guys who stripped down the 524 engines from a 747 that flew through a volcano cloud. The crew mated to start them in a dive after they stalled. Those engines should have melted long before they landed but they didn’t. A fan blade that was indestructible, friend of mine cut it up and found a crystalline structure that made it indestructible. Widmenstaten think it was . We just never learnt how to create it .
So bath tub curve, mean time before failure. Everything fails it’s just when. Was it a build of tolerances , crank on top limit, shell on top limit. . Bad coating on the shell, heat treatment incorrect. The list can go on.
Most crazy investigation my mentor did. We made thrust reversers for gulfstream . Suddenly the fasteners were corroding in service. Hundreds of hours of laboratories checking stuff on fasteners. The chief quality guy walked outside and thought , that wooden packaging is different . It’s gone from ply to a wood chip pressed.
Basically the the wood chip pressed stuff got wet here in Burnley and at Manchester airport. When it arrived in the USA in the hot climate, the glue being soaked began to gas off and attack the the coating on the fasteners, basically removing it. Then they corroded in service. Cost millions to fix ll the aircraft because someone change the packaging with telling anyone.
Great video - horrible situation.
5hit happens but the not knowing why would be as hard to accept as the repair bill.
I’m no expert nor idiot - would be good to understand the reluctance to fit old healthy pistons in the new block ?
Not doubting you in the slightest - more interested to hear from an expert 🤔
Feel so bad for the owner, we need an update on the outcome
hello, do you have a 5.0L engine or block to sell?
No sorry!
people need not be afraid of so called fancy engines an engine is a engine just build it right
Sad times.
there used to be an oil pump rebuilder that had an oil pump dyno... variable speed drive motor ... amp and voltage measurements on the drive motor.. pressure and flow sensors on the oil pump outputs... to check the flow of the pumps at different speeds... they are closed after decades do to the slump in car repairs in the early 2009 to 2012...
Please can I have a piston?
As a garage owner I would
Love one to collect
Yes we have loads!!
Wonder if the owners insurance policy would cover the cost of the engine, but I suppose at two thirds car value it’s probably touch and go. Feel for the owner.
I don’t think it does!
thats some wicked ouchie on your forearm brother
Yeah one on each side, broke my arm last year racing so both bones are plated!
11:40 the stroke would change the piston would be closer or over the deck 🤔 you will need shorter rods or shave the face of the piston if the rings don't pass the deck compression would change too
The stroke wouldn’t change as the crankshaft isn’t being change but it will affect the piston height in the deck..
Some Dart blocks have steel caps with aluminium block, so line honing is possible, it has to be. So, weld up lip. line bore. Clearancing tops of pistons, maybe for valves also, again, is nothing difficult. Wonder if the crank is junk? This crank would have to be forged steel, and forged steel is easily welded. Do the same thing, weld it up, heat treat, machine and go again? If the bearing was the farthest away from oil pump (even if it wasn't) you'd have to change that oil pump. The rod would have to go, I'd just find a used one, they'll be out there somewhere. In Pakistan, this thing would be running again in 24 hours, no parts changed out except bearings.
All well and good welding everything up, different thing when I have to warrant the engine.
Until it’s a tried and tested route on an engine like this I can’t take the risk.
We have started that kind of repair in this block….still not sure if I would use it or not!
The Toyota Lexus 1uz v8 come with an alloy block and steel caps they get away with line boring the brg bores
You can line bore it, but when you have major damage in the block and overbore the main journal you then have to either find bearings to suit or if you skim the lower girdle you change the piston height.
6:40 there’s your problem….
Not sure if its completely the same engine but Peter Bjorck did repair a broken block czcams.com/video/-GpeAPZM1hE/video.html
They line bore 2jz engines with aftermarket steel caps all the time if u have a very beefy boring bar brgs and take tiny cuts there should not be a problem
See my other comment. It’s not about line boring.
The term is piston quench.
Yes it would change the quench/squish as the crank centreline has been raised.
This isn’t uncommon actually happens a lot. Driven hard or barely driven don’t matter
He could be a bag prophet at which point stuff begins to break down
I don’t get what you mean?
Bad one, the unfortunate cost of owning a high performance car.. there is always something! Shit happens
Yes very unfortunate failure!
Its actually pretty rare to happen to the 5.2 v10. Its mostly reliable actually
Yes, as denoted by rare failure in the title of the video!
I wonder what an engine out of a scrapped car would cost? I guess pretty rare?
Rare failure and VeeDub 😂🤣😂🤣 is that an oxymoron?
clean the block.. make it into a very expensive coffee table with a glass top... the destroyed crank as a lamp... by feeding the wires back and forth thru the oil passages..
manufacture should have to pay for this
It’s not a defect unfortunately.
Try 65.000$ on a Mitsubishi evo x numbers it’s never ending and that just motor sst transfer case turbo intercooler fuel system anything it needed now it the suspension turn another 6 to 10.000$ when will it end never cars what fun they are fun
i wonder if the engine was revved when it was cold.... cold oil does not flow well.. so the bearings starved for oil and it destroyed the mains.. which is why you always warm up race engines.. and air craft engines to get the oil temp up.. cold oil is hard to pull from the dry sump tank when revved.
i would like to with the crank out of the block... figure out how to pump solvent or oil thru the galleys...
Depends on the viscosity. And that’s why I always use 0W-XX oils in everything.
Ricky said several times that the engine was always warmed up
Put an LSX in it and save 20k
And ruin it!! 😂😂
Squish
👍🏼
LS swap?????????
A V10 screamer for an LS. Why on Earth would you want to do that ?