So. This Wednesday at 12:30 PM EST, we’re gonna be talking about Arkham Knight on stream. We’ll have a Disagreement Day so anyone is free to join in and debate any of the points. We’ll do another one of these the week or two after to allow more opportunities for disagreements (and more time for people to watch and prepare).
0:44 about that, I came back to his video to see if he updated his comment to talk about your viewpoint, but low and behold I think you might want to see what happened 😰
I don't mean to be mean but GodzillaMendoza had infinitely more charisma than S.K. and is making better points. Obviously he's opinionated but to say "erm actually joker isn't the main villain of knight. Scarecrow is." Joker is not the main villain but he has more screen time and a personal connection with batman. He's basically the main villain. Like I said, no offense but this video is dumb. I don't HATE arkham knight or anything but I do love his video. This isn't bias talking as I've enjoyed your other videos even if they were proven wrong by others. Interesting that you took em down. That honestly takes guts.
>Joker is not the main villain That’s all I need, the statement is incorrect. He’s not “basically” the main villain because he’s a hallucination. It’s not him.
Scarecrow in Arkham Knight is probably the absolute darkest the character has ever gotten. His plans were absolutely apocalyptic and for Mendoza to claim that he's one dimensional is insane
@@Bungycb Complex wouldn't be appropriate. Scarecrow generally is a character that gets very little to work with. Having said this, Scarecrow in Arkham Knight is a monster. 100 million people would be considered collateral damage for him just to get to Batman
@risingtarnished I can't recall specifics but take any issue of the modern comics and I'm sure he's done worse. I mean he wasn't killing civillians in Arkham Knight except for the beginning.
18:44 not quite sure why Mendoza bothered bringing this up since Batman always goes out of his to save criminals and scarecrow likely doesn’t like the random rioters roaming the streets. Scarecrow likely sees them as test subjects. Additionally isn’t there a risk of the fear gas dispersed by the cloudburst continuing to spread horizontally?
Glad to see someone adress the issues with the video. I was okay with it on first watch but grown to have more issues with the points being made upon replaying a bit of Knight and rewatching it. Great Video! 👍
5:58 also, if you played batman arkham VR (a nightmare bruce has mere nights before arkham knight) you see towards the end he sees himself becoming the joker, and responsible for the deaths of Nightwing and robin, directly tieing into his pushing away of his family, and the fear toxin manifesting the symptoms and even possibility for joker's personality to take over batman
@@jesselucy4731 well I guess he didn’t really learn much or progress as a person at all from his experiences during Arkham origins considering he pushes people away pre Arkham knight in other games that come years after origins
@@Sully.. he only really pushed away Robin in city, which in context makes sense because in universe it still hadn’t been a full year since Tim became Robin and Jason supposedly died
Origins honestly has the better writting while City and Knight waste Ra's, Strange and Scarecrow by giving them the least screen time and cool moments compared to Joker.
Hold up, so the titan poisoning was gonna kill Batman within that one night, but all those people in the hospital were fine for several days presumably? I’d understand people who were undergoing extended medical treatment like joker, but people who just get a regular transplant would still be fucked. Also how did Batman even cure so many people when the serum was destroyed, and the blood was shipped to random hospitals all over the city? Even the world’s greatest detective wouldn’t be able to figure out who every individual infected person is, where they are, how to cure them, which hospitals got infected, exact number of infected, and shipping locations for the blood in time to save so many people even if he could teleport. Not to mention that Batman saving the hospitals kinda takes away from City’s ending, and makes it feel nowhere near as bittersweet as it was meant to be. Batman survives and saves Arkham city, but Joker dies and takes countless innocent people with him. That ending had so much impact, and felt grim as well as surprising. But with Knight, now the only thing that stuck was Joker dying and Batman taking a full on W with no real downsides.
I can 1000% see why people were disappointed, but I loveeeeee him. Jason is also my second fav DC character so I'm biased but I still love the Arkham Knight. If the story was slightly tweaked I'd love him more, but he's still super cool.
I do wanna correct that Batman was still infected by the Joker’s blood he took in 3 to 4 pints of said blood as well as when he took the cure he only took half of it before going to try and give it to Joker in City but he died Batman was a gradually changing throughout the story and it was shown in the Vr games he pushed away a lot of people not because be didn’t see them as a liability but because he was scared he may hurt them if Batman lost control and the hallucinates from the Joker back that idea up for example being that the batmobile was turned into a tank due to the influence of the blood changing him
Clownpuncher 139 had a pretty good theory relating to this quandary. In Arkham City, Bruce was dying of a botched blood transfusion due to his and Joker’s blood being incompatible. He got cured of the transfusion’s effects when he took the Blood of the Demon, but the disease still remained latent in Bruce’s system without the cure to fully expunge it, hence why he only experienced hallucinations and paleness by the time he got the cure and not the same symptoms he experienced in Wonder City. It also explains why people didn’t die on a massive scale before Joker did from his blood, because their blood was compatible with his and the disease doesn’t act fast. The theory also postulated that in AK, the four Jokers would have likely fallen under the disease’s effects and died just like Joker due to mutating into the Joker and not being exposed to Mr. Freeze’s cure. Also, since Batman took half the cure, he wouldn’t have contracted this form of the disease and become a perfect recreation of the Joker, like the nightmare section at the end shows.
I mean about red hood helping batman, there are hidden easter eggs in the game that he was probably trying to replace batman as Gotham’s vigilante and betray Scarecrow after he finally kills him
If Jason Todd just wanted to kill Batman and then betray Scarecrow so he could become a superior vigilante who saves more innocents by killing villains, why would be okay with killing so many innocent civilians as part of his plan?
@RyanGP1203_MemeLord but he doesn't really count as threat because she's real and he doesn't affect anything that's actually happening in the plot. Instead of inconvenience I should've said "plot device". And I say that because his existence in this game is a result of Batman continuously getting hit with fear toxin. As soon as you conquers the feat toxin, joker ceases to exist.
I really don't know why people can't just have a second look for their opinions? Like, all Godzilla said (and you actually did) was easy to debunk with all the in-game story that you should know beforehand to avoid saying any kind of "flaws" that the game already explained. Or just a rationalization of the same elements the story establised. Great video.
The whole rellying on the "titan formula did it" as it justifies the whole nonsense of the bad blood joker sickness feels kinda froced, like its suposed to be a supersteroid not a magic thing that justifies anythin the plot needs
it most likely wasn't the titan formula which did it, but still doesn't make the Joker blood plot magic or absurdity, it has been misteriously mutated by whatever the hell Joker did to it, which is completely possible in DC's fiction plus with Joker's intelligence. and its not like it happens to anyone who is infected by it as it requires sometime to mutate without a cure to work. and finally, the victims of the transformation don't even become perfect Jokers, instead they represent some part of his personality with only The Batman being a perfect variant.
The issue is that it's not really inconsistent or hasn't been shown to not to this right? So it's reasonable to just have that as the reason and it making sense. We get introduced to titan from the first game so it being basically the true key to having batman basically start falling apart because of the own fear of becoming what he despises. Thats neat
Why not? Titain isn't real it can do anything the writer wants it to do like it to do I mean it can turn you bones into blades and make theme huge can effect people despite them not being exposed to it such as Poison Ivy. It also turned into a disease after words. That's magic plot nonsense mate I say its just believable as the plant lady and how liquid nitrogen can turn you into Mr Freeze.
I’m not at all in agreement with Mendoza’s criticism’s of Knight as they’re pretty underbaked. The complaint about Joker being the main villain genuinely isn’t an issue, as it’s down to execution. Joker could absolutely be the main villain in all 4 games and I’d argue Mendoza is right in the sense that Knight is far more about the Batman’s relationship to crime and his own role in Gotham, explored more thoroughly through the Joker identity than through Scarecrow’s plan, but one facilitates the other so it’s not too much of an issue. Mendoza’s complaint about Joker’s prevalence in the story is still not an issue by itself. I digress, this response overall does not however effectively counter many of GM points, as easy to counter as some are. I’ll go point by point, explaining where Mendoza is wrong, where SK is wrong and where either are right. First point that became apparent was regarding the fear toxin’s effects and Mendoza complaining they’re inconsistent. He’s right, but not fully. Batman’s unique experience with the toxin could be due to its interaction with the disease in his blood, worsening it, but saying it’s just a new formula isn’t correct. We get a POV of the toxin’s effects at the starting scene with the officer and his visions are far more similar with the nightmare sequences seen in Asylum and numerous times in the AK than they are to a completely new formula with new effects. The new formula is mostly described in game to be a worse and more potent version of the Asylum formula, being able to go through clothes and masks and having similar yet worse effects. The interactions between the fear toxin and Batman’s disease get more confusing and inconsistent but it comes up in other points so I’ll leave it till then. Mendoza’s criticisms of the titans effect on Joker and Batman are really weird and garbled. Yes there are physical injuries caused by the growth of bone and muscle. That does not mean they are the reason he is dying in City, or Batman for that matter. It is said numerous times in City it is the effects of the formula in Joker’s blood that are killing Joker and Batman, IRRESPECTIVE of physical transformation into a monster. This is present before Knight and is an incorrect reading of City to lay more criticism onto Knight by making the effects of Joker blood seem more inconsistent. SK is right about the blood and titan being the issue, not Joker’s blood by itself. There are implications that the formula in asylum killed test subjects on its own, but these were different to the final formula Joker used on himself and Bruce. SK is right about the rules regarding the blood having unique effects. You can’t say it’s inconsistent or poorly explained. It’s sounds more so that GM has an issue with it as a plot point which he later talks more about, and wanted to criticise the presence of the idea in the story AS WELL AS it’s writing implications. I agree and disagree on different levels. Leading to the next point where GM says he finds it dull and ruins the Joker if his blood can be used to make another one. This is again mostly an execution issue. It was interesting that the Joker people had different concentrations of the Joker’s personality and how that resulted in new and unique versions of the Joker but overall I don’t think it was all that great given the little time we even saw these clones. That being said, personality wise GM is right that it would make a Joker clone out of Batman. We see as much when Bruce starts to fully lose it. Even BEFORE the fear toxin, in Arkham VR, which is something that will come up again. Yes SK is semantically right that Bruce will not become the Joker wholesale, but his personality will be virtually identical, with the addition of knowledge Bruce had prior to changing. GM mini rant on Joker’s personality being so easily transferred would need more explanation, it’s not a problem on its own. That’s the criticism I would have. SK instead responds by correcting him that “it’s not just Joker’s blood doing this, it’s the blood with Titan”, while responding to the broader criticisms with clips of Miguel. It’s sidestepping the criticisms but they’re not great to being with so it’s not a huge thing. I would be curious how SK would respond to the writing criticisms if the argument was instead the same other than the blood and titan being the cause. The timeline with the infection is weird in general. Joker dies relatively slower than Batman who we see on death’s door by wonder city, meanwhile Joker has had this for months since Asylum. You could say Bruce might have remained incredibly ill but not dead for a similar time as Joker before dying, but the people in Knight have presumably had it for months and aren’t anywhere near as sick joker was in city. The mutation changing the blood after it’s administered doesn’t clearly explain this, as Bruce gets all the same symptoms as the other patients by the time Knight rolls around, meaning the patients surely should’ve had his ill health long before Knight, however maybe the mutation stops making you sick and instead starts turning you into the Joker. It’s a messy explanation that sorts the timeline out but ruins the tension in City because this means cure or no cure Bruce wouldn’t have died. Bruce still believes he could die so it’s not a huge problem. However is it on,y down to the Joker having the most of his blood that kills him? It seems the blood doesn’t kill you at some point, as long as it mutates which it consistently did in all 5 people that had it other than Joker. Knight makes this plot point really weird. GM is right but for the wrong reasons when he says the cure was meaningless. Still strange that the Lazarus extract with the help of Freeze couldn’t cure it, but hey it’s not inconsistent from what we’re shown. SK is right, the hospital fuck up is not a problem. SK then goes on to say that the cure doesn’t work because Bruce is later exposed to the new fear toxin. This doesn’t make sense as a counter as Bruce shows signs of the infection in Arkham VR and in the prequel comics (the latter being less canon than official games). The Joker personality is seen manifesting earlier than Crane’s new formula being given to Bruce. The accurate criticism is just that the cure only helped Bruce for a small time or didn’t cure him fully. It’s not inherently wrong as GM puts it but is weird as stated before. Again GM is right in pointing out that Bruce’s symptoms being cured by conquering his fear makes no sense. You can say that the worsened state he was in because of Crane’s toxin is overcome but his overall illness predates the fear toxin. Bruce should still turn joker just like the rest. The flashback with Gordon also shows Bruce is already aware he is becoming a Joker and that predates the toxin too and it’s in game, not added later by VR. Ace chemicals bit is mostly neutral, GM is kinda funny, SK Is more correct though, however Gordon’s team being stationed there invites questions as to how Crane got in undetected and killed all of Jim’s men. The scene where Bruce gets the sample is a good example of the actual problems with AK. That soldier trying to use it on Bruce is really convenient as it allows Bruce to track the formula. If Bruce hadn’t got it here he would not have got to AC in time to reduce the blast radius. However, it’s not unlikely that the Militia would have this on them. TBC in comments…
GM complaining about Scarecrow is more of GM complaining in place of criticising. There is no real through line in his criticisms. It’s the kind of argument that sounds great to those who already agree with GM. SK gives consistently good responses to this bit. The Barbara scene is perhaps THE BIGGEST fucking plot hole in the game. It allows Scarecrow to blackmail Gordon without Bruce suspecting it’s possible which leads to a lot of the ending of the game, but more importantly, how TF does it work?!? How does Scarecrow know that Bruce will specifically see a hallucination of Barbara killing herself? How is Scarecrow able to frame it in a way that Bruce will specifically see a hallucination of Barbara being effected by toxin to the point of killing herself, something I do not believe this version of Barbara would do, and neither should Bruce believe it. This whole interaction changes Bruce’s goals part way through the game and greatly impacts Scarecrow being able to blackmail Jim and have him as a hostage by the end of the game. If Bruce didn’t think Barbara was dead, he could’ve rescued her before she could be used to blackmail Jim. Not only that, but it’s so contrived that in the elevator up to Crane, Bruce has to mince words about Barbara to the point where Jim can’t correct him and form a plan to save her. It’s ridiculous that Jim doesn’t bring it up in that scene. If Crane doesn’t know he can frame it this way and responds simply to what Bruce begins to say he’s seeing, it’s so convenient that Crane’s plan so heavily relies on something he COULD NOT have planned for. There is no prior or following scene where Crane is able to have someone see something so particular. GM only scratches the surface of this issue and does not outline it in detail enough, and SK is right in saying Scarecrow can respond to Bruce’s statements, everything after that is just incredibly convenient. Even if all of the staging allows Crane to do this, which again he has no 100% guarantee that he perfectly knows what Bruce is seeing, how does Bruce not doubt what he’s seeing after the whole game, and Joker appearing in that moment, which is already a hallucination, AND if you come back to that spot you can see as the player, from Bruce’s perspective the GUN IS GONE. It’s close to the worst scene in the game. The JL criticism isn’t great as we have no clue the power of the league and what it could mean for Crane. SSKTJL makes this so much worse because we now know the league would fuck up Crane easily. However, we don’t know how available they are, and Crane’s plan is still successful for the most part. SK is right about this. And yes, the blast is intended to go further than Gotham. The back up exists and it’s established he was co-ordinating it with Stagg earlier than the events of the game. GM also disregards the fact that the AC explosion is mostly successful. It only partially failed, and it took Batman being trapped in such a place that he would be badly infected by FT if the blast didn’t kill him. I do find it annoying how Bruce gets distracted in this scene by a conveniently timed call from Barbara that coincides with the clock tower just now being overrun which allows Crane to get away. That shit is retarded, but could easily be fixed by Crane threatening Barbara to allow him to get away instead. Jason and Scarecrow delaying their plan until Bruce is broken is fine as SK points out. There are more issues with Jason in particular, but the main thing is Scarecrow has to prevent Jason from killing Bruce early, meaning Jason just wants to kill Bruce. But Scarecrow is aware of this as he takes control of the copter at AC. This means Crane constantly allows the militia and specifically Jason to attempt to kill Bruce at other times, any of which could kill Bruce, which would prevent Crane’s broader plan of breaking Bruce. If at any point Jason kills Bruce, which he gets close to and is enabled by Crane constantly, then Crane doesn’t get to break Bruce. It’s implied that the partnership is very strained anyway, but Crane’s plan does not account for Jason enough. Jason says he wants to draw it out, and I know we can’t take fail states as canon but if Jason is taking actions that result in a fail state for us as the player (death), then these intentions could interrupt Scarecrow’s plan. Overconfidence is a fucking cheat of an excuse to explain incompetence. I’ll admit that GM’s criticism is not thorough enough and SK partially explains it as part of Scarecrow’s plan, but you cannot explain the shortcomings of their plan in game as due to overconfidence. This gets rolled out as an excuse to explain so many bad villains. SK does give other counters that are reasonable though. The Jason flashbacks are indefensible. They ruin Bruce and they make no sense in game. GM is right here. Bruce sees scenes that are not memories of the tape sent to him. Only the last one is recorded as remembered by Bruce in the scene with a camera. Then Bruce has a memory, not in the tape of Joker showing Jason having been replaced. This means, and it’s retarded as it sounds, Bruce is remembering Jason being shown he was replaced by Tim before he was sent the tape, retroactively. Meaning he is “remembering shit he wasn’t there for”. Not only that but it damages Bruce as a character replacing Jason so quickly. This doesn’t even regard the tapes, I can understand if Bruce couldn’t find Jason as he was hidden somewhere Bruce didn’t even know existed as hard as that is to believe. However, Bruce just replaces Jason too quickly. This is way more an issue of bad continuity. The Arkham timeline got screwed as they put way too much history before Asylum then condensed a load of events following it. Matter of family retcons Tim being robin before Asylum, as Barbara is out of the chair at that point then in the chair in Asylum. Despite this Robin isn’t mentioned. He’s not even sent with Jim to address the fake Bomb scares mentioned in asylum’s campaign. It’s basically because they didn’t invent him till city, then tried to fix it by pasting him in earlier, but that screwed Jason’s place. The comics make it even worse. The main issue with Jason is inconsistency. He gets tortured and programmed to the point of hating and wanting to kill Bruce, condemning a city in the process, then gets convinced otherwise in a matter of minutes by Bruce, even going on to SAVE HIM at the end?!? That’s not an arc, that’s two unrelated points connected by mouldy string. 23:45 Jason DOES NOT know Bruce can survive this OR that his armour can tank the shot, he specifically uses the method of going around the armour. A gut shot can have major consequences and doing this is another example of how Jason could absolutely fuck up Scarecrow’s plan which Scarecrow doesn’t account for enough. You cannot say Jason can rely on the fact that “he’s Batman” and he can survive this stuff. That’s like a character in universe acknowledging the plot armour Bruce has that he shouldn’t have in the first place. 24:16 Jason does the meme by having a pistol, then closing the distance while as SK says “Jason is getting his last words in”, which prevents Jason from safely being able to rant and allows Bruce to disorient him. Before the end of this scene Jason still wants to capture/kill Bruce. He fucks this up because he’s an incompetent villain, made worse ever time he says he knows Bruce’s methods so well. He clearly doesn’t act like it. 24:48 SK response is on point Mendoza is appealing too hard to outside sources and conflating them with the game, not acknowledging the game has reasons for this version of Jason. It’s actually horrendously all over the place when you lay out GM’s point. TBC…
SK is mostly correct about the ending and GM’s criticisms being wrong. GM’s Batman section is pretty bad all round, but I would question SK’s point about “Bruce knowing Jason would rescue him”. Ermmmm idk about that. He sees the red hood symbol at Kingston, but has no way of knowing what it means. He doesn’t even know what mindset he’s in after their last meeting. There’s way too much reading into the Jason confrontation however. I’ll stress again, if Jason’s programming is what’s responsible for him giving up on any sense of morality in regards to the rest of Gotham’s innocents along with hating Bruce, then Bruce talking to him the way he does should have little to no effect. It is a massive 180. In conclusion, I don’t like how inconsistent GM is in general as a critic. SK did good here, I’m not a regular viewer and also I apologise missing the stream SK did discussing the game. I don’t expect too many responses or any for that matter, but I thought some corrections were needed as I don’t think Knight is all that well written. Rankings for games in terms of gameplay: 1) Knight 2) Origins (not accounting for performance, if so then jt’s the worst) 3) City (even the remaster has shitty performance and input errors that Origins improved) 4) Asylum (of course not a bad game but the sequels improved upon it, impeccable level design though and best atmosphere that no game was able to achieve after it) Rankings in terms of writing: 1) Origins 2) Asylum 3) City 4) Knight (honestly, city could be down here, that fucking fetch quest of a narrative full of meaningless twists is only saved by great dialogue. Plot construction is on par with Knight. Knight also unintentionally damaged its plot lol).
I should point something out to GZMD... The Joker is not an anarchist. *Anarky* is an anarchist, joker is not. The Joker is a nihilist. Anarchy and nihilism are not the same thing. Anarchy is the truest form of democracy, whereas nihilism is just not giving a crap.
But when he moves, bullets are back to normal speed Fear takedowns rely on the enemies panicking to miss, which is why he doesn't have it in the middle of combat
I have a criticism for Jason’s character in Arkham Knight: His actions make 0 sense with what we know about his character. He hates Batman because he felt he abandoned him. Great, makes sense. He then teams up with murderous psychopaths to take down Batman, when his character bio reads that he went after Joker because he was annoyed by the no kill rule. I fail to see how Jason can abandon his morals to not only work with villains, but to aid in plans to detonate a chemical weapon that would span multiple cities leading to the deaths of countless innocent civilians, which I do not think he would be okay with. We know that he was annoyed the entire game by Scarecrow’s theatrics, so I question why he even needed him if he just wanted to kill Batman and get it over with. We also have reason to think that he planned to become Red Hood after killing Batman, evidenced by his Red Hood visor and red bat symbol that you can see BEFORE he forgives Bruce. This shows that he still wanted to stop crime, just in his way, so why was he okay with detonating the original bomb which would have utterly annihilated Gotham, Keystone, and Metropolis? Also ngl bro had time to save Batman before he was unmasked. Prick.
Joker manipulated Jason into being a agent of chaos. Jason’s alliance with the other villains is just a means to an end. He needed the extra funding for the operation. Jason worked with Scarecrow to help torment Batman with his fears. When was it ever established that Jason was going to use the Red Hood identity for good?
@@MistahJ1940 Because that’s the only explanation I can think of for why he would switch identities at any point. He was also killing criminals in the prequel comics. (not canon but shows the idea was there) It doesn’t seem consistent for him to be okay with civilians probably killing themselves and each other when eventually exposed to the toxin. The red bat symbol can be seen behind a red drape in the Arkham knight base. Seems like he was always intending to become red hood, and why would he do that if not to become a vigilante? Lastly, why did he need any operation at all? He literally abandons Scarecrow in the game at one point because he’s sick of his shit. He wanted Batman dead. Period. He was going to end it all at Ace Chemicals if he wasn’t stopped. Why did he ever even meet with Scarecrow to raise an army that costs billions of dollars? He could have just killed Batman without going through all this hassle that he clearly doesn’t even give a shit about.
@@B_D75 While I think the Arkham knight had more potential and I wish they did something different but these all have explanations First you can see in scarecrows tapes Jason wanted Batman to suffer but as you said he got sick of it and wanted him dead. And the red hood symbol well couldn’t only find that via hacks? And even then as you said he had the idea but just couldnt care go through with it as joker taught him Also he lost all mortals after what happened with joker while I wish it was written differently it makes sense
well jason needed funding couse he knew he didn't stand a chance against batman also when scarecrow was about to detonate bomb all civilians were out of gotham only criminals were left and as we know jason kills criminals so he wouldn't mind
@@Michal_glus No. the original bomb was going to impact the surrounding cities as well. That clip is shown in this very video. And no I don’t think Jason needed an entire army. He’s literally been stalking Batman since Arkham City and could have sniped him from a roof at some point but the game is inconsistent on whether he wants revenge now or wants him to suffer.
Small correction. It wasn't the fear toxin that triggered Batman's spiral into slowly becoming the Joker. This was explained in Arkham Knight. In one of the Joker hallucinations, Joker says that the reason why he was still transforming into Joker despite taking the cure, was that Batman in particular, was pumped with way SO MUCH of Joker's blood, that the final cure still only had a temporary effect. Joker even says specifically, 3 pints of it. Furthermore, my theory on how Batman overcame the disease is slightly different. The fear toxin was not just the trigger to the Joker disease. The fear toxin was inadvertently the actual cure. There's a bit during the final sequence where the Joker persona in Batman even says, "Oho, you and your fear toxin." Given that Batman's essentially spiraling into a split personality, where it's him and Joker, he just decided to let his Joker persona face the full blast of the fear toxin instead, ultimately defeating it. I'm one who loooooves GodzillaMendoza's video, but even back in the day when I watched it, I legit felt he dropped the ball hard, almost as if he was deliberately skipping clearly established explanations as to why something was or wasn't happening.
12:35 of Batman Arkham knight secret joker dialogues video. This dialogue Suggests that Batman was infected of the joker disease, as well as the “Change of heart” story with Lucius discussing the weaponry of the bat-mobile and suggesting that his personality was already being infected, without the presence of the fear toxin. Ultimately he was infected with the joker disease but the fear toxin most likely amplified it.
Not to split hairs, but joker isn’t a fear toxin hallucination. I mean, he might be briefly when Ace Chemicals goes up - ‘Miss me?’ - but after that he’s a symptom of Batman’s spiralling insanity. When he’s exposed to fear toxin later in the game, it wildly exacerbates this with more joker hallucination because Batman’s fear *is* succumbing to that insanity.
Dude I only just realized that in Arkham City, that hallucination was because of Joker’s blood. That’s crazy to think about because of how it foreshadows a major plot point in Arkham Knight.
There was also that phone call too: “Have you started getting the hallucinations yet? I know, you never could tell if it’s Scarecrow again, that little guy with the hat, my blood running through your veins or after all this time you’re actually going crazy!”
Great video! I’m not all that partial to AK’s story, but you make fantastic arguments in favor of it that were a joy to listen to. Maybe I need to reply the game and reevaluate my feelings to see if anything changes this time around. Well done! 👍
Actually it ain’t the intentions of the game but the execution of it. Let’s all agree Arkham Knight is a good game but it could’ve been done way better by establishing the narrative in gameplay the way the previous three games did.
@@user-dz4wn1mh7d Origins some great character moments, and while it's mentioned alot (for good reason) it was still incredibly interesting seeing a Batman who's still very rough around the edges. And an actual adaptation of Bane that didn't take over the animated series' lack of care about him. Hell even Troy Baker as the Joker, though unfortunately being way too overused, was actually really interesting in his own right. If there's any story I'd actually say is a bit lackluster, it's City's honestly.
Batman couldn't have only experienced side effects of the joker infection after he was exposed to the fear toxins because he had his cell ready before the events of the game even happen he even tells Jim the 5th is coming. Meaning he must've seen something to know he had it.
No, that just means he was paranoid of the possibility of it and the fear toxin played on those fears to convince him it was true. Notice how that gets resolved when he’s not afraid anymore.
@@s.k.4289 Why would Batman be paranoid of turning into the Joker if he wasn't experiencing symptoms before the fear toxin? To him the Joker-Titan blood would just be lethal and potentially kill him. Why the hell would he assume Joker blood could turn him into Joker if he wasn't already having symptoms before Knight?
You know what I noticed? All his “criticisms” are just questions. And questions aren’t criticisms. Especially when they can be easily addressed like is shown here.
If Batman didn’t have the joker disease, then how was he hallucinating Joker in Arkham vr, which is canonically meant to be the start of his affliction in Knight? And how would Batman having titan in his blood with no joker blood, STILL have the same effects as the mutated Joker blood? Even if Batman was afraid of becoming the joker, and that was supposed to be why Crane’s toxin made him have the effects, that still doesn’t make sense because if he never had the disease then he wouldn’t be afraid of succumbing to it. Also how does a deadly disease mutate into a non-lethal one? If anything, this should’ve been the next bubonic plague.
Because the nightmare in Arkham VR was a side effect of getting exposed to titan formula twice. In fact it was already established that titan does some weird things to a person’s mind in Arkham asylum, given by the fact that people who transform into a titan are unable to speak and go into a blind rage, and lose their rationality completely. Joker is still able to speak because he’s already insane. No Batman never exhibits the same effects as mutated creutz Jakob disease. Batman is paranoid of turning into the joker, it’s as simple as that. It’s literally been stated that the disease spreads like that to such a contagious degree. The four infected at Panessa Studios are still having their blood processed. And about that last point, Joker took 18 months to die from titan poisoning, the reason why Batman was dying so early is because his blood type was incompatible with Joker’s. So the 4 infected still have 9 months left to live since their blood types are compatible with joker’s.
I’m still very disappointed by the Arkham knight thing tbh. Jason just kinda APPEARS in this game with absolutely no buildup from any prior entry. It’s hard to expect me to be impacted by this character that just kinda shows up, especially when he was built up to be a completely new character but only amounted to a sub par retelling of under the red hood. Plus the fucking abysmal boss fights in this game don’t help it’s case at all. All that being said tho, this game definitely gets more shit than it deserves these days, there’s still a lot of really good Batman storytelling here, it’s just not the perfect finale I wanted at the time or even now. It’s still the objective best in the series from a gameplay standpoint though, it’s so replayable
Asylum and City (i think?) does have a few easter eggs, with Joker mentioning that Batman needs a new sidekick, asking Robin if he din't kill him already and a cell with Jason's drawings and i think there is one more thing but i don't remember.
Arkham Knights story in general is pretty obviously not what was originally set up in City. Does that make it bad? Not necessarily, but you can’t really look at the portrayal of Hush in Arkham Knight and say that they made the right decisions.
@@B_D75 yea. Like there’s good aspects to the narrative but stuff like the poorly executed Hush plotline or the super predictable Jason Todd arc and the overall poor boss fights doesn’t do the game any favors at all
I personally think Arkham Knight and The Dark Knight Rises are 2 of the best ways to end of Batman’s character excluding stories that are similar in the comics and The DCAU.
@@s.k.4289my one issue is how does Bruce killing himself/faking his death protect his friends? Surly the Rouges Gallery would still want to kill Batman’s allies even if they don’t know who is behind the mask Plus if they know Bruce is Batman it probably would be easier to deduce the identity of Robin, and figure out Lucius was building Batman’s gadgets
This has to be one of the most poorly researched videos i have ever seen. it's like he played the game once and never touched it again. Major mendoza L. great video btw 👍
Judging by his voice he was likely in his teens by the time he played it and got mad because of how bad it was and let his emotions get the better of him. Kids these days are too ready to rush into things sometimes sadly.
great video over here , i can understand godzilla's frustration with the game's story especially with the lack of dini's input , overuse of joker (which may seem annoying at first for most) and the underwhelming utilization of scarecrow , hush and deathstroke (especially with how they built up hush in arkham city) but some of the criticism felt very nitpicky and taken out of context , the story is not that great but calling it having the worst finale ever is an overstatement
How is scarecrow "underutilized"? He Managed to Do many things that no one, outside of brainiac, could accomplish. He unmasked batman, bombed gotham with fear Gas and made bruce go into hiding. Deathstroke was also not underutilized. He became the Boss of the milita, after the knight disappeared, and was only beaten due to being caught off guard.
@@djb9267 i love arkham knight but we do have to acknowledge and see how other perspectives. Like whilst yes scarecrow did alot i think the underutilisation part of is he was more like commanding not having his hallucination levels showing his past trauma and fears but instead just increasing jokers power which is fine but could have done more. And look the deathstroke fight was hugely disappointing cause we had the arkham orgins fight and we know what this man can do and yes him being in command of the milita is cool but the tank fight and 1 punch knockout was hugely disappointing cause this is deathstroke the terminator the man who jason sought out cause he was thr toughest basterd he went up against and this was the fight......come on man
@@teddyisaliar271 Batman did see his past Trauma, in the Form of jason being tortured. This is batman's greatest failure, and is being shown to him over and over again. Deathstroke's underwhelming Boss fight was because of the batmobile. Why would slade go alone, if batman has access to a Tank? Deathstroke was also caught off guard by batman, which he comments on.
@@djb9267 yes we saw the trauma but it wasn't scarecrow doing it it was the joker. And im sorry whilst yes they do make an off hand comment about the circumstances that doesnt make it good. Cause wh on the right mind goes ah yes we have one of DC famous mercenaries/assassin and for his fight we put him in a tank. And your tank argument is bad cause look at the game and how many other villains batman went up against without the tank. The arkham knight boss was hand to hand. Riddler hand to hand, two face, azreal if you choose the bad ending, prof pyg, penguin, deacon and maybe others i cant go off my mind who all know batman probably had a tank. And slade knew this he had the ball in his hand and he knew if he said a battleground batman would go there so you could have easily said a rooftop or somewhere else. No matter what you try to say it will always be bad and not a good representation of the character and bad moment for the game
@@djb9267he feels like he doesn't have much of hands on the story compared to Jason and he doesn't have any memorable moments or scenes aside from two.
While I do like Arkham Knight I do agree with a lot of Godzilla’s critiques. Particularly the Joker shooting Jason for no reason after torturing him for an entire yr made no sense, and your rebuttal that Joker knew Jason would become the Arkham Knight yrs later seems even more ridiculous and convoluted. Joker’s blood being magic and able to turn people into Joker clones,Scarecrow being able to subdue Batman with just a gun, all of these are valid critiques that I don’t think you did much to make them seem less valid. Your rebuttals annd explanations came across a rather flimsy and weak in my opinion.
I don’t think you were paying attention at all. Joker faking Jason’s death was meant to mess with Batman. The four infected people at panessa studios were being affected by mutated version of creutz jakob disease. A real disease that causes personality changes. And it’s a mutated form of it so it’s way more severe. This is a result of titan gestating in their blood for too long, and if you payed attention to Arkham Asylum, you’d know that doctor young intended the titan formula to serve as treatment for the minds of the Arkham inmates. So why wouldn’t the titan formula have some weird effects on a person’s mind and thinking patterns? Also the white skin and green hair is makeup. In regards as scarecrow subduing Batman with a gun, I guess you completely ignored the fact that Batman got hit with fear toxin while in the truck and was incapacitated from it like he was at staggs airships. And I know you’re just saying “in my opinion” as flimsy shield from criticism because you’re blatantly ignoring pre established facts for the sake of making an awful point.
@@MistahJ1940 1. What a lazy excuse. How does Joker faking Jason's death mess with Batman more than just killing Jason outright? He can hurt Batman and get rid of a potential nuisance at the same time. S.K. is the one implying in this video that Joker knew Jason would grow up to become an enemy to Batman which is convoluted and not backed up by anything. Blame S.K.s leaps in logic, not me. 2. Jakobs disease is fatal so a mutated and more severe version of it would just kill the 4 infected even quicker rather slowly turn them into Joker clones. Also, the disease isn't just deteriorating their brains, its being so specific as to turn them into Joker clones with them murdering and mutilating people, carving smiles into their faces, laughing maniacally, being obsessed with Batman and their skin and hair changing color (And yes, there hair and skin are changing color. It's not just makeup and dye, you literally pulled that out your ass. Nowhere is it said to be makeup and dye.) Henry Adams was stable enough to trick and manipulate Batman like Joker would, is this something someone with a deteriorating brain would or could do? Joker's blood turning people into his clones is just a shitty plot idea, Jakobs disease or not. 3. The Titan formula was not intended for Arkham patients mental health, it was specifically designed by Dr Young and Joker as a super steroid. Dr Young's only goal for the drug was to make patients physically stronger. Why else would she use Venom, a super steroid with no benefits to mental health as the precursor? So the Titan formula having any effect on making Joker clones is just more magic handwavy nonsense. 4. And no, Batman wasn't dosed with any fear toxin before his final confrontation with Scarecrow. Why do you insist on making stuff up? It only hurts your arguments and makes you look like an idiot. And even if he was, he was perfectly fine when Scarecrow showed up to strap him to the gurney, so there is still no excuse for why Batman couldn't subdue the physically weak Scarecrow. Good job being wrong about damn near everything showing you know very little about the game you're defending.
@@kingmob2716 to pitch in on this for claim 3 about Venom it does have mental effects.....it turns you into a blind rage with a lower intelligence that's it's only mental effects and it's not a good effect to have
@@kingmob2716okay I see you're pretty cocky and itching for answers so I got the canonical explanations for one of them and before you want to get all bent out of shape about it note I don't like this game(or your additude) so here. The reason why joker didn't kill Jason was because he did intend to have him be something similar to Arkham knight in the sense that he'd be a weapon used against Batman. Basically Joker planned to torture Jason and brainwash him into subservience so that he could use him to emotional wound Batman in a far more greater way. He initially planned to use Jason to fight Batman along with his titan army that's why Jason was secretly kept in an abandoned wing of Arkham along where project titan was. But after Dr Young noped out of the plan Joker decided to use Arkham Asylum as his final battle ground with Batman as he planned to wear him down with the imitates and titan henchmen. He original planned to have Batman show up beaten and hurt in his throne room and have Jason arrive and force Batman to fight his own son while he sits and watches. But Jason escaped that night and vowed revenge on both of them, Joker then improvised and used the titan henchmen and gave himself titan to beat Batman. Joker in this series is the master at the long con as many of his plans even the most smallest ones are months or years in the making such as that oil rig amusement park. From a sadistic point of view it's more enjoyable to see the look and shock on Batman's face as his own son thought to be dead shows up with to snuff him out. It's kinda like how MHA why All For One didn't kill Nana Shimura's family or her grandkid but instead turned him into a villain as it's more painful to corrupt then kill.
@@kingmob2716If batman found out that jason wasn't dead, but instead someone out to kill him, he would obviously feel worse than if joker just killed jason.
great video actually made amazing points and this reminds me of when you made the spider-man ps4 criticisms and people pointed out the flaws it looks like a redemption arc hope you keep making great content
@@MistahJ1940For all everyone knew Joker was “cured” and then Batman walks out of the theatre and Joker is dead. Seems like a reasonable assumption most people would end up making.
@@MistahJ1940 Harley and a lot of the criminals think Batman killed Joker. Rumors and misinformation can spread really fast. It isn’t really confirmed either way what most people think, but I don’t think Godzilla Mendoza was being unreasonable when he assumed that.
i still think the joker infection doesn't really make sense. it killed joker and nearly batman in city, so why would its symptoms change in knight? i also don't get how they were able to save all the infected people since they had the infection before batman, and he was about to die in wonder city.
I still think Arkham Knight is the weakest, maybe not the worst, but the weakest, in terms of story and gameplay. I would rather play Asylum City or Origins than Knight, but if I had to pick between Suicide Squad Killed Batman or Arkham Knight… I would choose Arkham Knight.
I’ve seen that video before, and I quite agree with that Although I can still understand Jason’s hatred for Bruce in this story 1:07 in fairness it does feel like he is the main villain since he technically overshadows them
Thank you for making this. I commented on that guys video a while back saying it did not age well. Thank you so much for these arguments that actually make sense
23:17 I mean it's still weird that bruce didn't find jason in that abandoned wing at arkham. Yes the aylum is huge but no huge that's it's just impossible to navigate. Although I guess that happened in batman beyond return of the joker. It's a little bit weird. A little unavoidable factor.
The problem is that Batman doesn’t know where to look until he gets a video from Joker. And by then, Jason and Joker would’ve been gone. And all Batman would have is the background. No specific location.
@@s.k.4289 The World's Greatest Detective couldn't track down Joker and Jason after months of searching despite them being in Gotham the whole time? Not only that but they were in Arkham Asylum, a place Batman should know like the back of his hand, and he has a backup Batcave on the island? Batman needed Joker to send him a video months after the kidnapping before he starts looking? I could understand if Joker was moving Jason around to different locations so Batman would have a hard time finding them but if Joker was just spending months in the same place, a place Batman should be extremely familiar with, it's absolutely laughable that Batman wouldn't be able to find them.
6:00 on top of that Batman didn’t take the full dose of the cure. Remember Freeze broke one of the vials, so Batman only drank half of it because he was planning to save The Joker
Joker was overused. He didn't need to be in every game. The first and second was fine but when Knight happened I feel like he should've been in flashbacks but not being forced in 100% of the game.
W video. 20:16 i wanted to add in extra Arkham Material its stated that "But when Batman encounters the mysterious Arkham Knight, he ignores, perhaps deliberately, clues to the Knight's identity. For if the Arkham Knight is who Batman secretly suspects him to be, then that means he has truly failed someone he considers family." meaning even ignoring the fact that from Batman's POV Jason is dead then the story will still work.
Once again, a great video, i'm looking forward to see more of your positive takes on movies and games.And Arkham Knight Scarecrow is probably the best portrayal of character next to TNBA.
1:34 plus the joker blood which mutates after being ingestated for too long and attacks the brain, turning the individual into the joker. meanwhile the fear toxin only made the symptons worse.
6:40 I think you’re really reaching here. When Robin says that Batman is turning into the Joker we have no choice but to take him at his word and assume he’s right. Batman and pretty much everyone else operate under the belief that he’s turning into the Joker and not once does anyone in the game challenge that . If it was just the fear toxin they would have said so but they don’t. It seems like you’re trying to make your headcanon a reality that every one has to accept despite there being no evidence for it.
They did say so. Batman said he had a bad reaction to the toxin but is fine when Alfred questioned if he’s okay, and Joker immediately shows up onscreen to contradict that. That’s directly implying it’s the fear toxin. Robin stating something doesn’t make it correct because he can be wrong. Batman is only afraid of the possibility he had the disease and the fear toxin played into that. The resolution to that was “I’m not afraid” after he overcomes his vision of becoming the Joker.
@@s.k.4289 No they didn't say so. Yes, Robin can be wrong, but the narrative never challenges his original hypothesis. Not once does anyone in the story contradict Robin's original statement. I mean what was the point of having the four civilians who were given Joker's blood are turning into Joker plotline if not to set up the big "Batman is turning into Joker" twist? That entire plot point becomes a waste of time if Batman was never actually turning. They could have easily said at the end that the 'Batman is turning into the Joker' idea was wrong but they never do. This is what I mean with you making a headcanon and adding details that don't actually exist in-game. Even if your theory makes more sense if it wasn't the intention of the writers there's no point in using it in defense of the game. I would bet money if you asked any of writers, they would confirm that Batman was actually turning into the Joker.
@@gigagod3384 Batman prepares the 5th cell because he's paranoid of the possibility of having this disease. The game directly implies that the fear toxin caused the Joker hallucinations when Alfred questions him on if he's okay, and Batman claims he is. The narrative does contradict Batman claiming he's fine after the fear toxin, by having Joker pop up right after he says he's fine. It seems very deliberate. I will say that it could be explained better so that the gamer doesn't have to do as much legwork to understand this, but I feel like the pieces are all in the game. The information supports what I said. I also don't think writer's intention is always the strongest metric for determining something, because the work should speak for itself.
@@s.k.4289 So one small scene that somewhat but not really implies it’s just the fear toxin is enough to convince you it’s just the fear gas but not the hours upon hours of the game insisting and screaming in your face that Batman was really turning into Joker? An idea that is never questioned for the entire game by anyone? No piece of dialogue discussing the possibility of it just being fear gas? Just a scene that barely implies anything is enough for you? I have no idea why the Batman being dosed with fear toxin scene is such a big deal to you. It's nothing more than a set up for the Joker disease twist. Were led to believe it's just fear toxin hallucination but then the real reason is revealed later. The Joker disease plot is the driving force of half the game. Does that make any narrative sense to set up a plot point, have that first plot be swepped aside with a twist reveal that sets up half the games narrative but then have the twist not be real and the first plot was the real one, but the game never discusses or confirms if it's real or not? It would make no sense to have the fear toxin be the real reason but then have the disease plot take up half the story and then it turns out to be the fear toxin all along. What a waste of time that would be.
@@gigagod3384 That "one small scene" is an explicit confirmation that the fear gas is causing these side effects, additionally evident by the effects only being experienced upon exposure to fear toxin. As well as Joker saying "give me some more of that fear toxin" in one of the hallucinations. And the fact that Batman's side effects are resolved by him shutting out his fears. Using the fact Batman believes it to be the case at first and that Tim believes it to be the case doesn't disprove the reasoning above, because what characters believe are not always fact. And Tim has reason to believe it based on how the fear toxin is affecting Batman. From his POV, he has just been working with the Jokers all night and Batman must have left a 5th cell for a reason. Batman's preparation of the 5th cell is because he's paranoid of the possibility that this could have happened to him and manifest at any moment. Like I said, I think the game could have done a better job explaining it so there's less legwork required to figure it out, but based solely on the information in these games, it's evident that the fear toxin is causing his hallucinations. Was it just a coincidence that he faced side effects only after being exposed to the fear toxin? Was it just a coincidence that Alfred brings up the possibility of bad side effects, only for Batman to say he's fine then be immediately contradicted by the Joker showing up on his screen? Was it just a coincidence that Batman stopped facing side effects when he's no longer afraid? Food for thought. If you're down for a Discord VC to discuss the game I'm down too.
Awesome video, I understand why people don't like Knight's story and agree with said people to some degree, but as this video has shown, it's far more fleshed out than it's given credit for.
@@s.k.4289 I haven't watch the movie but the ending is most when everyone talks about the film. Btw, I like the video and Arkham Knight is my personal favorite.
It baffles me how some people go on and on about the "One Bad Day" thing, and yet they still pretend they support Joker having a multiple choice backstory. The Killing Joke is not the definitive Joker story. It is just one Joker story and portrayal out of countless, and I'd argue that it isn't even close to the best (my favorite is the Arkham Trilogy, followed closely by his first appearance back in "Batman #1" and then "Mad Love"). Furthermore, the story even says that "One Bad Day" is just Joker's attempt to delude himself into believing everyone else is like him, as his attempt to recreate it with Gordon fails miserably. Almost every backstory we've gotten for Joker is implied to be nonsense resulting from his inability to accurately remember his past, so why do people take this one as gospel? Also, "One Bad Day" is not the whole appeal of the Joker. The main appeal, the one thing that has been mostly consistent about the character for the last 85 years, is his love of darkly comedic mayhem simply for the sake of having fun. The Joker is entertaining because he does things that, while evil, are also hilarious, and we get to laugh along with him at the joke because it isn't real life. He's the type of villain that doesn't need a cause or an understandable backstory. He's just a heartless monster with a dark but excellent sense of humor, although I'll admit that some stories, such as "Batman-Who-Tries-Too-Hard" (Sorry, Batman-Who-Laughs) have sadly misinterpreted this as meaning that all you need to write the Joker is bland shock value gore and the line "HaHaHa!"
GodzillaMendoza really lost me after he apologized to Dan Slott in his video on Nick Spencer’s Amazing Spider-Man and going back to his old videos made me realize how much of a pushover/apologist for the “new gatekeepers” he is 🤷🏽♂️ His Arkham Knight review, while mostly good, is an example of being a parrot for all the people he likes/follows in his attempt to really get noticed.
@@raycom201 1. GM was in the wrong when he did that bc he basically sided with guys like Dan Slott, WHO ACTIVELY TALKED TRASH/BLOCKED PEOPLE FOR ANY KIND OF CRITICISM (GOOD OR BAD)/ENABLED TOXICITY IN THE COMIC BOOK WRITER SPHERE BY COORDINATING WITH THEM ALL TO BLOCK OR REPORT USERS FOR WHO THEY DON’T LIKE BASED OFF “CERTAIN CRITERIA” 2. GM used his apology basically to dunk on “the Spider-Man fans” who “make the fandom look bad” and tries to justify it as “a moment in which I came to understand Maturity” (the same excuse guys like iDubbbz and especially HBomberguy use when they’re so afraid of their pasts creeping up on them [aka Troll’s Remorse]) 3. He cares more about getting in cool with these big shot comic book writers/artists who actively have shown him disdain and contempt for critiquing their work than for fellow readers/fans who wish to share their opinions. It’s not because he “wanted to make right a mistake” but that he wanted to seem like “the good kind of fan”…the kind who will just accept anything.
Sure he may have been a bit too nice to Slott given the guy's known for looking anything that remotely has his name. but all he did was retract a quote he misattributed to Dan.
@@DavidRYates-tk2tq How is he wrong? Arkham Knight has its good aspects, but it isn't a perfect game, by any means, as far as the gameplay and storytelling go. His criticisms were valid and pointed out the issues with the gameplay and story, so what makes Godzilla Mendoza's opinion on the game wrong?
@@TheRiddleMan-ci7hi his critisims were trash and debunked in this video. The game has its issues but non of it was brought by mendoza. All his criticism were trash.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Just because this video may see Menzoda's criticisms differently, doesn't make his opinion any less valid. How are any of his criticisms "trash"? You don't see any flaws in the game's story
i believe what he means is that Mendoza did not present his issues with the game very well, showing poor research or/and poor wording that could be debunked with a simple full walkthrough of the game.@@TheRiddleMan-ci7hi
@@s.k.4289 That sucks, hopefully one day you’ll change your mind on its story because I personally think it’s a great story that just needs lots of explanation to be discussed about into detail.
Yk I used to despise ur criticism based on ur nitpicks on sm1 but I can’t lie u have redeemed urself over the past year ish. You give hope that people can change lmao 😂. Love the Colin and sk duo now uve truly earned my sub.
@@funnyclown12345 Yeah but S.K's rebuttals in this video aren't much better. Like the Joker tortured Jason for months, shot him but missed on purpose and knew Jason would grow up to become the Arkham Knight? Is that really the best S.K could come up with?
@@jameshoreman475 i don't think is that he knew he would become the arkham knight, joker was just having the fun of his life making batman's sidekick hate him while being beat to near death and wasn't going to cut it short anytime soon, maybe he even got a kick off seeing batman actually believing jason is dead, but then if i remember correctly joker does send someone to kill jason (slade? i think?) near arkham asylum's events, where jason finally escapes.
I've never seen someone be so out of touch with a thing that they're "critiquing". They say art is up to interpretation--that's no excuse to give fallacy to ignorance.
Wait. No. Batman DOES have the joker disease. Why else would he have a cell prepared for himself? He didn’t know that he would be exposed to fear toxin. His eyes turn green because that’s what the disease does. It happens to everyone else. Fear toxin wouldn’t do that. It turns Cranes eyes orange because that’s the color of the toxin. It makes no sense for the toxin to turn Batman’s eyes green just because he happens to be hallucinating the Joker.
The joker disease makes no sense. Joker had titan in his blood, how does his blood make you have his personality. I like the idea of normal people turning into the joker and I like the jokers we got but I wish they got cured. And also despite that, it doesn't make any sense
Actually Batman doesn’t have the Joker disease at all. Batman made an isolation cell for himself because of the nightmare experienced in Arkham VR. Its literally stated that Scarecrow used the titan formula to amplify his fear toxin, that’s why Batman’s eyes turn green.
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259it’s not joker disease, it’s a mutated version of Creutz Jakob disease m as a result of the titan formula gestating in their blood for too long.
@@MistahJ1940 you know what? I apologize for looking for logic in a game series where a woman suddenly gained the ability to control plants. Your explanation makes more sense tbf
@@MistahJ1940 I would say you might be onto something about the titan formula and the green eyes but that seems like a massive reach. His eyes are only green when he’s at peak “Joker mode” which doesn’t seem to correlate with how Titan formula works, considering that’s not what titan formula does. And Tim Drake spells out to the player that Batman is the last Joker when his eyes turn green. Sooooo… Also, if he doesn’t have the joker disease, why would he decide to literally lock himself away just because he is having nightmares? Seems like those nightmares prove he DOES have the joker disease.
Added note on top of that “Joker is the villain!” point- the idea of the Arkham games is exploring the Batman and the Joker’s relationship. That’s what it’s been since Asylum.
I love Scarecrow and how heinous his plan really was in Arkham Knight, I know the Joker hallucination is a big part of the game too but it does always rub me the wrong way when people call that the main villain, and not Scarecrow who's directly responsible for all this and heck, his fear toxin is even why we see Joker through the entire game!
i know this is an older Mendoza video but man idk why but his opinions recently just seem…jaded and it turned me off from his newer videos, Will always remember having fun watching him talking about the Spawn games and Cartoon, The spider-man games retrospective, Gutter Space, etc
6:25 i may disagree. He tells Gordon in the flashback before AK that he has the disease(he'll be here soon). While yes you could say Arkham VR is just fear and not proof he has the disease, I would think Batman would check his blood before saying that. Now I probably missed something so if you could explain that would be great.
@@tuanmohdarfantuankhusairry2977 SK used to make vids on games like Spiderman PS4 and have a bunch of lame nitpicks just because he could hate, not for any real reason. Now he’s pointing out legitimate criticism on videos like GM’s- and GM is a great yter, but this is one of his “less good” vids. I hesitate to say worse because it is admittedly still enjoyable to watch but it is inaccurate
Whats funny is that he thinks people liking this game is revisionist history, even though Arkham Knight (not the pc version) was getting good feedback day one. Nowadays the pc version is fixed now.
Very well refuted in nearly every aspect. The only thing I'd disagree with is Batman's Joker affliction. Given the events of VR, where Bruce wasn't exposed to the toxin, he was still affected by the infected blood (I'd guess the amount of the cure he took wasn't enough) and knew he was running out of time, hence the 5th cell and determination to develop a new cure. The toxin just enhanced the mental effects, which was why Joker encouraged Batman to be dosed by the gas more. It really felt like GM's takes were rooted in CinemaSins type criticisms where it's easy to refute the claims, like why Scarecrow and the Knight didn't kill Batman right away. The game tells you the why and how, it's just up to each person to pay attention. Arkham Knight is my favorite game, and it always pleases me to see in-depth discussions about its story, at least ones that aren't absurdly negative. The game has flaws, but not to the level of the story being called horrendous.
So.
This Wednesday at 12:30 PM EST, we’re gonna be talking about Arkham Knight on stream. We’ll have a Disagreement Day so anyone is free to join in and debate any of the points. We’ll do another one of these the week or two after to allow more opportunities for disagreements (and more time for people to watch and prepare).
0:44 about that, I came back to his video to see if he updated his comment to talk about your viewpoint, but low and behold I think you might want to see what happened 😰
@@Joey-vs4fr what happened
@@tombstone9500 I couldn’t find the comment, must’ve taken it down
"What's Alfred gonna do, use a golf club?" You seem to forget Alfred is a stone-cold bad@$$.
Remember when he kicked Superman's ass in injustice?
@@CamzgotgamzHe didnt even take the pill!! 🥶 But still, it was an awesome scene
He literally has a shotgun
@@altalia07 he did, might wanna reread that comic
Also he can beat superman
S.K. Went from making stupid criticisms to calling out people for stupid criticisms. Such a redemption arc S.K. Great job on your redemption.
My Edge of Time stream is using the same standards I use in this video. If I can't defend it like I am here, it doesn't hold up.
I don't mean to be mean but GodzillaMendoza had infinitely more charisma than S.K. and is making better points. Obviously he's opinionated but to say "erm actually joker isn't the main villain of knight. Scarecrow is." Joker is not the main villain but he has more screen time and a personal connection with batman. He's basically the main villain. Like I said, no offense but this video is dumb. I don't HATE arkham knight or anything but I do love his video. This isn't bias talking as I've enjoyed your other videos even if they were proven wrong by others. Interesting that you took em down. That honestly takes guts.
>Joker is not the main villain
That’s all I need, the statement is incorrect. He’s not “basically” the main villain because he’s a hallucination. It’s not him.
Yes
Hey his Review of the Flash (The FLUSH) will be forever missed!
Both godzillamendoza and sk missed one thing
The bombs payload is exposed they can use the power winch to trigger a controlled explosion
Hahaha 🤣🤣 now that's funny
The most insulting thing in the video was that GodzillaMendoza said that Scarecrow was a b-list Batman villain
Scarecrow in Arkham Knight is probably the absolute darkest the character has ever gotten. His plans were absolutely apocalyptic and for Mendoza to claim that he's one dimensional is insane
Facts.
What’s so complex about him
@@Bungycb Complex wouldn't be appropriate. Scarecrow generally is a character that gets very little to work with. Having said this, Scarecrow in Arkham Knight is a monster. 100 million people would be considered collateral damage for him just to get to Batman
@@Bungycbikr
@risingtarnished I can't recall specifics but take any issue of the modern comics and I'm sure he's done worse. I mean he wasn't killing civillians in Arkham Knight except for the beginning.
I wouldn't necessarily consider Joker the main villain, more like a major plot point.
Love how you stayed respectful to a legendary CZcamsr
Facts.
Godzilla mendoza blocked me because I kept criticizing him. He's a 🐕
Let’s see if the legendary CZcamsr is respectful to this guy.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios I’m sure he will.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudiosI don’t see him responding if I’m being honest. Unless this video gets more views than his which I doubt
The fact that video is 7 years ago makes me feel old
18:44 not quite sure why Mendoza bothered bringing this up since Batman always goes out of his to save criminals and scarecrow likely doesn’t like the random rioters roaming the streets. Scarecrow likely sees them as test subjects. Additionally isn’t there a risk of the fear gas dispersed by the cloudburst continuing to spread horizontally?
Glad to see someone adress the issues with the video. I was okay with it on first watch but grown to have more issues with the points being made upon replaying a bit of Knight and rewatching it. Great Video! 👍
Ngl i wonder what the guards reaction was too batman just punching air when at the airship
and then being chocked by air.
Yeah lolll
Guards: maybe he is fighting an invisible guy
5:58 also, if you played batman arkham VR (a nightmare bruce has mere nights before arkham knight) you see towards the end he sees himself becoming the joker, and responsible for the deaths of Nightwing and robin, directly tieing into his pushing away of his family, and the fear toxin manifesting the symptoms and even possibility for joker's personality to take over batman
He pushes his allies away long before he ever has that nightmare or him somehow turning into the joker was even a concept in these games lmao
@@Sully.. but in this game it’s a point constantly criticized because of his arc being learning to not push away help in Arkham origins
@@jesselucy4731 well I guess he didn’t really learn much or progress as a person at all from his experiences during Arkham origins considering he pushes people away pre Arkham knight in other games that come years after origins
@@Sully..He doesn’t push them away if they’re still helping him
@@Sully.. he only really pushed away Robin in city, which in context makes sense because in universe it still hadn’t been a full year since Tim became Robin and Jason supposedly died
People still don’t realize that Bane is the villain of origins huh?
He's the villain you have to deal with the most but you do still end it by beating up Joker
Or strange and scarecrow is the main villains of city and knight
@@Diabolical420if anything ra's al ghul is the main villain in city
Not many people care about origins. It’s mid game just like all the arkham games
@@naolerena3193 oh yeah I forgot joker is a side villains btw but you have to end a game with joker dying if joker does die
This character arc is insane. SK is a real one.
All The Arkham Games are peak Superhero gaming and Batman Storytelling.
Spider-man is better than any of those mid arkham games
@@Bungycb How are they mid?
Nice but in my opinion i think every arkham game is better or as good as the spiderman games@@Bungycb
@@JustAUser231 Prototype > 🥱
Origins honestly has the better writting while City and Knight waste Ra's, Strange and Scarecrow by giving them the least screen time and cool moments compared to Joker.
Hold up, so the titan poisoning was gonna kill Batman within that one night, but all those people in the hospital were fine for several days presumably?
I’d understand people who were undergoing extended medical treatment like joker, but people who just get a regular transplant would still be fucked.
Also how did Batman even cure so many people when the serum was destroyed, and the blood was shipped to random hospitals all over the city?
Even the world’s greatest detective wouldn’t be able to figure out who every individual infected person is, where they are, how to cure them, which hospitals got infected, exact number of infected, and shipping locations for the blood in time to save so many people even if he could teleport.
Not to mention that Batman saving the hospitals kinda takes away from City’s ending, and makes it feel nowhere near as bittersweet as it was meant to be.
Batman survives and saves Arkham city, but Joker dies and takes countless innocent people with him. That ending had so much impact, and felt grim as well as surprising.
But with Knight, now the only thing that stuck was Joker dying and Batman taking a full on W with no real downsides.
I was very disappointed by Arkham Knight when it came out but over time I grew to love it
I think many people did.
Ok I’m tryna be nice but every time I read these these comments I can’t help but call you guys bandwagons
@@Diabolical420 damn, people can't have opinions anymore, only one person can believe something and they can't change that
@@ravencollins5638 I meant I think of a bandwagon and I’m not trying to call them that.
I can 1000% see why people were disappointed, but I loveeeeee him. Jason is also my second fav DC character so I'm biased but I still love the Arkham Knight. If the story was slightly tweaked I'd love him more, but he's still super cool.
I do wanna correct that Batman was still infected by the Joker’s blood he took in 3 to 4 pints of said blood as well as when he took the cure he only took half of it before going to try and give it to Joker in City but he died
Batman was a gradually changing throughout the story and it was shown in the Vr games he pushed away a lot of people not because be didn’t see them as a liability but because he was scared he may hurt them if Batman lost control and the hallucinates from the Joker back that idea up for example being that the batmobile was turned into a tank due to the influence of the blood changing him
Clownpuncher 139 had a pretty good theory relating to this quandary. In Arkham City, Bruce was dying of a botched blood transfusion due to his and Joker’s blood being incompatible. He got cured of the transfusion’s effects when he took the Blood of the Demon, but the disease still remained latent in Bruce’s system without the cure to fully expunge it, hence why he only experienced hallucinations and paleness by the time he got the cure and not the same symptoms he experienced in Wonder City. It also explains why people didn’t die on a massive scale before Joker did from his blood, because their blood was compatible with his and the disease doesn’t act fast.
The theory also postulated that in AK, the four Jokers would have likely fallen under the disease’s effects and died just like Joker due to mutating into the Joker and not being exposed to Mr. Freeze’s cure. Also, since Batman took half the cure, he wouldn’t have contracted this form of the disease and become a perfect recreation of the Joker, like the nightmare section at the end shows.
I mean about red hood helping batman, there are hidden easter eggs in the game that he was probably trying to replace batman as Gotham’s vigilante and betray Scarecrow after he finally kills him
So why is Jason wearing hockey pants?
If Jason Todd just wanted to kill Batman and then betray Scarecrow so he could become a superior vigilante who saves more innocents by killing villains, why would be okay with killing so many innocent civilians as part of his plan?
The joker is more like a plot device than a main villian. He's just there to annoy batman and make him go crazy. He's not an actual threat.
Joker: hey I am not touching you I am not touching you
Batman: you can't annoy me like that
He is what are you talking about? If he doesn't fight the disease away the joker will take over and it's already shown how much hold he has on batman
@RyanGP1203_MemeLord but he doesn't really count as threat because she's real and he doesn't affect anything that's actually happening in the plot. Instead of inconvenience I should've said "plot device". And I say that because his existence in this game is a result of Batman continuously getting hit with fear toxin. As soon as you conquers the feat toxin, joker ceases to exist.
A well thought out response to a great CZcamsr.
I really don't know why people can't just have a second look for their opinions? Like, all Godzilla said (and you actually did) was easy to debunk with all the in-game story that you should know beforehand to avoid saying any kind of "flaws" that the game already explained. Or just a rationalization of the same elements the story establised.
Great video.
The whole rellying on the "titan formula did it" as it justifies the whole nonsense of the bad blood joker sickness feels kinda froced, like its suposed to be a supersteroid not a magic thing that justifies anythin the plot needs
Yeah.
it most likely wasn't the titan formula which did it, but still doesn't make the Joker blood plot magic or absurdity, it has been misteriously mutated by whatever the hell Joker did to it, which is completely possible in DC's fiction plus with Joker's intelligence.
and its not like it happens to anyone who is infected by it as it requires sometime to mutate without a cure to work.
and finally, the victims of the transformation don't even become perfect Jokers, instead they represent some part of his personality with only The Batman being a perfect variant.
The issue is that it's not really inconsistent or hasn't been shown to not to this right? So it's reasonable to just have that as the reason and it making sense. We get introduced to titan from the first game so it being basically the true key to having batman basically start falling apart because of the own fear of becoming what he despises. Thats neat
@@GodzillaMendozaOh shit
Why not? Titain isn't real it can do anything the writer wants it to do like it to do I mean it can turn you bones into blades and make theme huge can effect people despite them not being exposed to it such as Poison Ivy. It also turned into a disease after words.
That's magic plot nonsense mate I say its just believable as the plant lady and how liquid nitrogen can turn you into Mr Freeze.
I love Arkham Knight so damn much, I loved it on release day and probably love it even more now.
I’m not at all in agreement with Mendoza’s criticism’s of Knight as they’re pretty underbaked. The complaint about Joker being the main villain genuinely isn’t an issue, as it’s down to execution. Joker could absolutely be the main villain in all 4 games and I’d argue Mendoza is right in the sense that Knight is far more about the Batman’s relationship to crime and his own role in Gotham, explored more thoroughly through the Joker identity than through Scarecrow’s plan, but one facilitates the other so it’s not too much of an issue. Mendoza’s complaint about Joker’s prevalence in the story is still not an issue by itself.
I digress, this response overall does not however effectively counter many of GM points, as easy to counter as some are.
I’ll go point by point, explaining where Mendoza is wrong, where SK is wrong and where either are right.
First point that became apparent was regarding the fear toxin’s effects and Mendoza complaining they’re inconsistent. He’s right, but not fully. Batman’s unique experience with the toxin could be due to its interaction with the disease in his blood, worsening it, but saying it’s just a new formula isn’t correct. We get a POV of the toxin’s effects at the starting scene with the officer and his visions are far more similar with the nightmare sequences seen in Asylum and numerous times in the AK than they are to a completely new formula with new effects. The new formula is mostly described in game to be a worse and more potent version of the Asylum formula, being able to go through clothes and masks and having similar yet worse effects. The interactions between the fear toxin and Batman’s disease get more confusing and inconsistent but it comes up in other points so I’ll leave it till then.
Mendoza’s criticisms of the titans effect on Joker and Batman are really weird and garbled. Yes there are physical injuries caused by the growth of bone and muscle. That does not mean they are the reason he is dying in City, or Batman for that matter. It is said numerous times in City it is the effects of the formula in Joker’s blood that are killing Joker and Batman, IRRESPECTIVE of physical transformation into a monster. This is present before Knight and is an incorrect reading of City to lay more criticism onto Knight by making the effects of Joker blood seem more inconsistent.
SK is right about the blood and titan being the issue, not Joker’s blood by itself. There are implications that the formula in asylum killed test subjects on its own, but these were different to the final formula Joker used on himself and Bruce.
SK is right about the rules regarding the blood having unique effects. You can’t say it’s inconsistent or poorly explained. It’s sounds more so that GM has an issue with it as a plot point which he later talks more about, and wanted to criticise the presence of the idea in the story AS WELL AS it’s writing implications. I agree and disagree on different levels.
Leading to the next point where GM says he finds it dull and ruins the Joker if his blood can be used to make another one. This is again mostly an execution issue. It was interesting that the Joker people had different concentrations of the Joker’s personality and how that resulted in new and unique versions of the Joker but overall I don’t think it was all that great given the little time we even saw these clones.
That being said, personality wise GM is right that it would make a Joker clone out of Batman. We see as much when Bruce starts to fully lose it. Even BEFORE the fear toxin, in Arkham VR, which is something that will come up again. Yes SK is semantically right that Bruce will not become the Joker wholesale, but his personality will be virtually identical, with the addition of knowledge Bruce had prior to changing.
GM mini rant on Joker’s personality being so easily transferred would need more explanation, it’s not a problem on its own. That’s the criticism I would have. SK instead responds by correcting him that “it’s not just Joker’s blood doing this, it’s the blood with Titan”, while responding to the broader criticisms with clips of Miguel. It’s sidestepping the criticisms but they’re not great to being with so it’s not a huge thing. I would be curious how SK would respond to the writing criticisms if the argument was instead the same other than the blood and titan being the cause.
The timeline with the infection is weird in general. Joker dies relatively slower than Batman who we see on death’s door by wonder city, meanwhile Joker has had this for months since Asylum. You could say Bruce might have remained incredibly ill but not dead for a similar time as Joker before dying, but the people in Knight have presumably had it for months and aren’t anywhere near as sick joker was in city. The mutation changing the blood after it’s administered doesn’t clearly explain this, as Bruce gets all the same symptoms as the other patients by the time Knight rolls around, meaning the patients surely should’ve had his ill health long before Knight, however maybe the mutation stops making you sick and instead starts turning you into the Joker. It’s a messy explanation that sorts the timeline out but ruins the tension in City because this means cure or no cure Bruce wouldn’t have died. Bruce still believes he could die so it’s not a huge problem. However is it on,y down to the Joker having the most of his blood that kills him? It seems the blood doesn’t kill you at some point, as long as it mutates which it consistently did in all 5 people that had it other than Joker. Knight makes this plot point really weird. GM is right but for the wrong reasons when he says the cure was meaningless. Still strange that the Lazarus extract with the help of Freeze couldn’t cure it, but hey it’s not inconsistent from what we’re shown.
SK is right, the hospital fuck up is not a problem.
SK then goes on to say that the cure doesn’t work because Bruce is later exposed to the new fear toxin. This doesn’t make sense as a counter as Bruce shows signs of the infection in Arkham VR and in the prequel comics (the latter being less canon than official games). The Joker personality is seen manifesting earlier than Crane’s new formula being given to Bruce. The accurate criticism is just that the cure only helped Bruce for a small time or didn’t cure him fully. It’s not inherently wrong as GM puts it but is weird as stated before.
Again GM is right in pointing out that Bruce’s symptoms being cured by conquering his fear makes no sense. You can say that the worsened state he was in because of Crane’s toxin is overcome but his overall illness predates the fear toxin. Bruce should still turn joker just like the rest.
The flashback with Gordon also shows Bruce is already aware he is becoming a Joker and that predates the toxin too and it’s in game, not added later by VR.
Ace chemicals bit is mostly neutral, GM is kinda funny, SK Is more correct though, however Gordon’s team being stationed there invites questions as to how Crane got in undetected and killed all of Jim’s men.
The scene where Bruce gets the sample is a good example of the actual problems with AK. That soldier trying to use it on Bruce is really convenient as it allows Bruce to track the formula. If Bruce hadn’t got it here he would not have got to AC in time to reduce the blast radius. However, it’s not unlikely that the Militia would have this on them.
TBC in comments…
GM complaining about Scarecrow is more of GM complaining in place of criticising. There is no real through line in his criticisms. It’s the kind of argument that sounds great to those who already agree with GM. SK gives consistently good responses to this bit.
The Barbara scene is perhaps THE BIGGEST fucking plot hole in the game. It allows Scarecrow to blackmail Gordon without Bruce suspecting it’s possible which leads to a lot of the ending of the game, but more importantly, how TF does it work?!?
How does Scarecrow know that Bruce will specifically see a hallucination of Barbara killing herself? How is Scarecrow able to frame it in a way that Bruce will specifically see a hallucination of Barbara being effected by toxin to the point of killing herself, something I do not believe this version of Barbara would do, and neither should Bruce believe it. This whole interaction changes Bruce’s goals part way through the game and greatly impacts Scarecrow being able to blackmail Jim and have him as a hostage by the end of the game. If Bruce didn’t think Barbara was dead, he could’ve rescued her before she could be used to blackmail Jim. Not only that, but it’s so contrived that in the elevator up to Crane, Bruce has to mince words about Barbara to the point where Jim can’t correct him and form a plan to save her. It’s ridiculous that Jim doesn’t bring it up in that scene. If Crane doesn’t know he can frame it this way and responds simply to what Bruce begins to say he’s seeing, it’s so convenient that Crane’s plan so heavily relies on something he COULD NOT have planned for. There is no prior or following scene where Crane is able to have someone see something so particular. GM only scratches the surface of this issue and does not outline it in detail enough, and SK is right in saying Scarecrow can respond to Bruce’s statements, everything after that is just incredibly convenient. Even if all of the staging allows Crane to do this, which again he has no 100% guarantee that he perfectly knows what Bruce is seeing, how does Bruce not doubt what he’s seeing after the whole game, and Joker appearing in that moment, which is already a hallucination, AND if you come back to that spot you can see as the player, from Bruce’s perspective the GUN IS GONE. It’s close to the worst scene in the game.
The JL criticism isn’t great as we have no clue the power of the league and what it could mean for Crane. SSKTJL makes this so much worse because we now know the league would fuck up Crane easily. However, we don’t know how available they are, and Crane’s plan is still successful for the most part. SK is right about this.
And yes, the blast is intended to go further than Gotham. The back up exists and it’s established he was co-ordinating it with Stagg earlier than the events of the game. GM also disregards the fact that the AC explosion is mostly successful. It only partially failed, and it took Batman being trapped in such a place that he would be badly infected by FT if the blast didn’t kill him. I do find it annoying how Bruce gets distracted in this scene by a conveniently timed call from Barbara that coincides with the clock tower just now being overrun which allows Crane to get away. That shit is retarded, but could easily be fixed by Crane threatening Barbara to allow him to get away instead.
Jason and Scarecrow delaying their plan until Bruce is broken is fine as SK points out. There are more issues with Jason in particular, but the main thing is Scarecrow has to prevent Jason from killing Bruce early, meaning Jason just wants to kill Bruce. But Scarecrow is aware of this as he takes control of the copter at AC. This means Crane constantly allows the militia and specifically Jason to attempt to kill Bruce at other times, any of which could kill Bruce, which would prevent Crane’s broader plan of breaking Bruce. If at any point Jason kills Bruce, which he gets close to and is enabled by Crane constantly, then Crane doesn’t get to break Bruce. It’s implied that the partnership is very strained anyway, but Crane’s plan does not account for Jason enough. Jason says he wants to draw it out, and I know we can’t take fail states as canon but if Jason is taking actions that result in a fail state for us as the player (death), then these intentions could interrupt Scarecrow’s plan.
Overconfidence is a fucking cheat of an excuse to explain incompetence. I’ll admit that GM’s criticism is not thorough enough and SK partially explains it as part of Scarecrow’s plan, but you cannot explain the shortcomings of their plan in game as due to overconfidence. This gets rolled out as an excuse to explain so many bad villains. SK does give other counters that are reasonable though.
The Jason flashbacks are indefensible. They ruin Bruce and they make no sense in game. GM is right here. Bruce sees scenes that are not memories of the tape sent to him. Only the last one is recorded as remembered by Bruce in the scene with a camera. Then Bruce has a memory, not in the tape of Joker showing Jason having been replaced. This means, and it’s retarded as it sounds, Bruce is remembering Jason being shown he was replaced by Tim before he was sent the tape, retroactively. Meaning he is “remembering shit he wasn’t there for”. Not only that but it damages Bruce as a character replacing Jason so quickly. This doesn’t even regard the tapes, I can understand if Bruce couldn’t find Jason as he was hidden somewhere Bruce didn’t even know existed as hard as that is to believe. However, Bruce just replaces Jason too quickly. This is way more an issue of bad continuity. The Arkham timeline got screwed as they put way too much history before Asylum then condensed a load of events following it. Matter of family retcons Tim being robin before Asylum, as Barbara is out of the chair at that point then in the chair in Asylum. Despite this Robin isn’t mentioned. He’s not even sent with Jim to address the fake Bomb scares mentioned in asylum’s campaign. It’s basically because they didn’t invent him till city, then tried to fix it by pasting him in earlier, but that screwed Jason’s place. The comics make it even worse.
The main issue with Jason is inconsistency. He gets tortured and programmed to the point of hating and wanting to kill Bruce, condemning a city in the process, then gets convinced otherwise in a matter of minutes by Bruce, even going on to SAVE HIM at the end?!? That’s not an arc, that’s two unrelated points connected by mouldy string.
23:45 Jason DOES NOT know Bruce can survive this OR that his armour can tank the shot, he specifically uses the method of going around the armour. A gut shot can have major consequences and doing this is another example of how Jason could absolutely fuck up Scarecrow’s plan which Scarecrow doesn’t account for enough. You cannot say Jason can rely on the fact that “he’s Batman” and he can survive this stuff. That’s like a character in universe acknowledging the plot armour Bruce has that he shouldn’t have in the first place.
24:16 Jason does the meme by having a pistol, then closing the distance while as SK says “Jason is getting his last words in”, which prevents Jason from safely being able to rant and allows Bruce to disorient him. Before the end of this scene Jason still wants to capture/kill Bruce. He fucks this up because he’s an incompetent villain, made worse ever time he says he knows Bruce’s methods so well. He clearly doesn’t act like it.
24:48 SK response is on point Mendoza is appealing too hard to outside sources and conflating them with the game, not acknowledging the game has reasons for this version of Jason. It’s actually horrendously all over the place when you lay out GM’s point.
TBC…
SK is mostly correct about the ending and GM’s criticisms being wrong. GM’s Batman section is pretty bad all round, but I would question SK’s point about “Bruce knowing Jason would rescue him”. Ermmmm idk about that. He sees the red hood symbol at Kingston, but has no way of knowing what it means. He doesn’t even know what mindset he’s in after their last meeting.
There’s way too much reading into the Jason confrontation however. I’ll stress again, if Jason’s programming is what’s responsible for him giving up on any sense of morality in regards to the rest of Gotham’s innocents along with hating Bruce, then Bruce talking to him the way he does should have little to no effect. It is a massive 180.
In conclusion, I don’t like how inconsistent GM is in general as a critic. SK did good here, I’m not a regular viewer and also I apologise missing the stream SK did discussing the game. I don’t expect too many responses or any for that matter, but I thought some corrections were needed as I don’t think Knight is all that well written.
Rankings for games in terms of gameplay:
1) Knight
2) Origins (not accounting for performance, if so then jt’s the worst)
3) City (even the remaster has shitty performance and input errors that Origins improved)
4) Asylum (of course not a bad game but the sequels improved upon it, impeccable level design though and best atmosphere that no game was able to achieve after it)
Rankings in terms of writing:
1) Origins
2) Asylum
3) City
4) Knight (honestly, city could be down here, that fucking fetch quest of a narrative full of meaningless twists is only saved by great dialogue. Plot construction is on par with Knight. Knight also unintentionally damaged its plot lol).
My only problem with the story is I think some of the ideas could’ve been executed a little better but overall I think it’s pretty good
I should point something out to GZMD...
The Joker is not an anarchist. *Anarky* is an anarchist, joker is not. The Joker is a nihilist. Anarchy and nihilism are not the same thing. Anarchy is the truest form of democracy, whereas nihilism is just not giving a crap.
Nolan Joker is an anarchist nihilist… Arkham joker? Debatable
@@dc7981even that is debatable mate
@@kwayneboy1524 Very debatable.
Probably gonna be one of my favorite responses/rebuttals
I'll admit that I didn't really dig the game at first but with time it grew on me a lot
29:20 Batman can see bullets in slow motion 🤷🏻♂️
But when he moves, bullets are back to normal speed
Fear takedowns rely on the enemies panicking to miss, which is why he doesn't have it in the middle of combat
I have a criticism for Jason’s character in Arkham Knight:
His actions make 0 sense with what we know about his character. He hates Batman because he felt he abandoned him. Great, makes sense. He then teams up with murderous psychopaths to take down Batman, when his character bio reads that he went after Joker because he was annoyed by the no kill rule. I fail to see how Jason can abandon his morals to not only work with villains, but to aid in plans to detonate a chemical weapon that would span multiple cities leading to the deaths of countless innocent civilians, which I do not think he would be okay with.
We know that he was annoyed the entire game by Scarecrow’s theatrics, so I question why he even needed him if he just wanted to kill Batman and get it over with. We also have reason to think that he planned to become Red Hood after killing Batman, evidenced by his Red Hood visor and red bat symbol that you can see BEFORE he forgives Bruce. This shows that he still wanted to stop crime, just in his way, so why was he okay with detonating the original bomb which would have utterly annihilated Gotham, Keystone, and Metropolis?
Also ngl bro had time to save Batman before he was unmasked. Prick.
Joker manipulated Jason into being a agent of chaos. Jason’s alliance with the other villains is just a means to an end. He needed the extra funding for the operation. Jason worked with Scarecrow to help torment Batman with his fears. When was it ever established that Jason was going to use the Red Hood identity for good?
@@MistahJ1940 Because that’s the only explanation I can think of for why he would switch identities at any point. He was also killing criminals in the prequel comics. (not canon but shows the idea was there) It doesn’t seem consistent for him to be okay with civilians probably killing themselves and each other when eventually exposed to the toxin.
The red bat symbol can be seen behind a red drape in the Arkham knight base. Seems like he was always intending to become red hood, and why would he do that if not to become a vigilante?
Lastly, why did he need any operation at all? He literally abandons Scarecrow in the game at one point because he’s sick of his shit. He wanted Batman dead. Period. He was going to end it all at Ace Chemicals if he wasn’t stopped. Why did he ever even meet with Scarecrow to raise an army that costs billions of dollars? He could have just killed Batman without going through all this hassle that he clearly doesn’t even give a shit about.
@@B_D75
While I think the Arkham knight had more potential and I wish they did something different but these all have explanations
First you can see in scarecrows tapes Jason wanted Batman to suffer but as you said he got sick of it and wanted him dead. And the red hood symbol well couldn’t only find that via hacks? And even then as you said he had the idea but just couldnt care go through with it as joker taught him
Also he lost all mortals after what happened with joker while I wish it was written differently it makes sense
well jason needed funding couse he knew he didn't stand a chance against batman
also when scarecrow was about to detonate bomb all civilians were out of gotham only criminals were left and as we know jason kills criminals so he wouldn't mind
@@Michal_glus No. the original bomb was going to impact the surrounding cities as well. That clip is shown in this very video.
And no I don’t think Jason needed an entire army. He’s literally been stalking Batman since Arkham City and could have sniped him from a roof at some point but the game is inconsistent on whether he wants revenge now or wants him to suffer.
Small correction. It wasn't the fear toxin that triggered Batman's spiral into slowly becoming the Joker. This was explained in Arkham Knight. In one of the Joker hallucinations, Joker says that the reason why he was still transforming into Joker despite taking the cure, was that Batman in particular, was pumped with way SO MUCH of Joker's blood, that the final cure still only had a temporary effect. Joker even says specifically, 3 pints of it.
Furthermore, my theory on how Batman overcame the disease is slightly different. The fear toxin was not just the trigger to the Joker disease. The fear toxin was inadvertently the actual cure. There's a bit during the final sequence where the Joker persona in Batman even says, "Oho, you and your fear toxin." Given that Batman's essentially spiraling into a split personality, where it's him and Joker, he just decided to let his Joker persona face the full blast of the fear toxin instead, ultimately defeating it.
I'm one who loooooves GodzillaMendoza's video, but even back in the day when I watched it, I legit felt he dropped the ball hard, almost as if he was deliberately skipping clearly established explanations as to why something was or wasn't happening.
12:35 of Batman Arkham knight secret joker dialogues video. This dialogue Suggests that Batman was infected of the joker disease, as well as the “Change of heart” story with Lucius discussing the weaponry of the bat-mobile and suggesting that his personality was already being infected, without the presence of the fear toxin. Ultimately he was infected with the joker disease but the fear toxin most likely amplified it.
Not to split hairs, but joker isn’t a fear toxin hallucination. I mean, he might be briefly when Ace Chemicals goes up - ‘Miss me?’ - but after that he’s a symptom of Batman’s spiralling insanity.
When he’s exposed to fear toxin later in the game, it wildly exacerbates this with more joker hallucination because Batman’s fear *is* succumbing to that insanity.
Dude I only just realized that in Arkham City, that hallucination was because of Joker’s blood. That’s crazy to think about because of how it foreshadows a major plot point in Arkham Knight.
IKR. Rocksteady are great at foreshadowing future games. Like how there is an Arkham City foreshadow in Asylum.
There was also that phone call too:
“Have you started getting the hallucinations yet? I know, you never could tell if it’s Scarecrow again, that little guy with the hat, my blood running through your veins or after all this time you’re actually going crazy!”
@@tamariomartin9080 Oh, damn, I completely forgot about that too.
Great video! I’m not all that partial to AK’s story, but you make fantastic arguments in favor of it that were a joy to listen to. Maybe I need to reply the game and reevaluate my feelings to see if anything changes this time around. Well done! 👍
Actually it ain’t the intentions of the game but the execution of it. Let’s all agree Arkham Knight is a good game but it could’ve been done way better by establishing the narrative in gameplay the way the previous three games did.
implying arkham.origins was any good 😅
@@user-dz4wn1mh7d I get why some dislike it but, for me and many others it’s one of the most underrated games by far
@@user-dz4wn1mh7d Origins some great character moments, and while it's mentioned alot (for good reason) it was still incredibly interesting seeing a Batman who's still very rough around the edges. And an actual adaptation of Bane that didn't take over the animated series' lack of care about him. Hell even Troy Baker as the Joker, though unfortunately being way too overused, was actually really interesting in his own right. If there's any story I'd actually say is a bit lackluster, it's City's honestly.
Batman couldn't have only experienced side effects of the joker infection after he was exposed to the fear toxins because he had his cell ready before the events of the game even happen he even tells Jim the 5th is coming. Meaning he must've seen something to know he had it.
No, that just means he was paranoid of the possibility of it and the fear toxin played on those fears to convince him it was true. Notice how that gets resolved when he’s not afraid anymore.
@@s.k.4289 Why would Batman be paranoid of turning into the Joker if he wasn't experiencing symptoms before the fear toxin? To him the Joker-Titan blood would just be lethal and potentially kill him. Why the hell would he assume Joker blood could turn him into Joker if he wasn't already having symptoms before Knight?
@@s.k.4289 yeah no you're wrong the Arkham VR game which is cannon debunks your incorrect statement
You know what I noticed? All his “criticisms” are just questions. And questions aren’t criticisms. Especially when they can be easily addressed like is shown here.
If Batman didn’t have the joker disease, then how was he hallucinating Joker in Arkham vr, which is canonically meant to be the start of his affliction in Knight?
And how would Batman having titan in his blood with no joker blood, STILL have the same effects as the mutated Joker blood?
Even if Batman was afraid of becoming the joker, and that was supposed to be why Crane’s toxin made him have the effects, that still doesn’t make sense because if he never had the disease then he wouldn’t be afraid of succumbing to it.
Also how does a deadly disease mutate into a non-lethal one? If anything, this should’ve been the next bubonic plague.
Because the nightmare in Arkham VR was a side effect of getting exposed to titan formula twice. In fact it was already established that titan does some weird things to a person’s mind in Arkham asylum, given by the fact that people who transform into a titan are unable to speak and go into a blind rage, and lose their rationality completely. Joker is still able to speak because he’s already insane. No Batman never exhibits the same effects as mutated creutz Jakob disease. Batman is paranoid of turning into the joker, it’s as simple as that. It’s literally been stated that the disease spreads like that to such a contagious degree. The four infected at Panessa Studios are still having their blood processed. And about that last point, Joker took 18 months to die from titan poisoning, the reason why Batman was dying so early is because his blood type was incompatible with Joker’s. So the 4 infected still have 9 months left to live since their blood types are compatible with joker’s.
Great Video and very well put together. Look forward to what you have next.
I’m still very disappointed by the Arkham knight thing tbh. Jason just kinda APPEARS in this game with absolutely no buildup from any prior entry. It’s hard to expect me to be impacted by this character that just kinda shows up, especially when he was built up to be a completely new character but only amounted to a sub par retelling of under the red hood. Plus the fucking abysmal boss fights in this game don’t help it’s case at all. All that being said tho, this game definitely gets more shit than it deserves these days, there’s still a lot of really good Batman storytelling here, it’s just not the perfect finale I wanted at the time or even now. It’s still the objective best in the series from a gameplay standpoint though, it’s so replayable
Asylum and City (i think?) does have a few easter eggs, with Joker mentioning that Batman needs a new sidekick, asking Robin if he din't kill him already and a cell with Jason's drawings and i think there is one more thing but i don't remember.
@@funnyclown12345 I mean yea but even then that’s not enough to fully establish it happened before the game
@@THEKXRMANETWORK fair enough.
Arkham Knights story in general is pretty obviously not what was originally set up in City. Does that make it bad? Not necessarily, but you can’t really look at the portrayal of Hush in Arkham Knight and say that they made the right decisions.
@@B_D75 yea. Like there’s good aspects to the narrative but stuff like the poorly executed Hush plotline or the super predictable Jason Todd arc and the overall poor boss fights doesn’t do the game any favors at all
I personally think Arkham Knight and The Dark Knight Rises are 2 of the best ways to end of Batman’s character excluding stories that are similar in the comics and The DCAU.
I think Knight does it way better. Rises has an interesting idea but needed stronger connecting tissue for it to work.
I was gonna disagree and say that Batman Beyonds epilogue in Justice league unlimited was the best Batman ending until I read “excluding”
@s.k.4289 I think TDKR big issue was the joker was ment to play a big role and they scraped it due to heath ledgers death leading to alot of holes
@@s.k.4289Rises is still an epic movie tho...
@@s.k.4289my one issue is how does Bruce killing himself/faking his death protect his friends? Surly the Rouges Gallery would still want to kill Batman’s allies even if they don’t know who is behind the mask
Plus if they know Bruce is Batman it probably would be easier to deduce the identity of Robin, and figure out Lucius was building Batman’s gadgets
This has to be one of the most poorly researched videos i have ever seen. it's like he played the game once and never touched it again. Major mendoza L.
great video btw 👍
Judging by his voice he was likely in his teens by the time he played it and got mad because of how bad it was and let his emotions get the better of him.
Kids these days are too ready to rush into things sometimes sadly.
No, you're wrong. He's just a big fan of the Suicide Squad game. Just mad that nobody's playing that it. But instead playing Arkham Knight.
@@micoddwarriorhis video was made over 5 years ago.
@@micoddwarriorthis video was 5 years ago. Hurry up and delete this
@@kwayneboy1524it’s still not good😭
great video over here , i can understand godzilla's frustration with the game's story especially with the lack of dini's input , overuse of joker (which may seem annoying at first for most) and the underwhelming utilization of scarecrow , hush and deathstroke (especially with how they built up hush in arkham city) but some of the criticism felt very nitpicky and taken out of context , the story is not that great but calling it having the worst finale ever is an overstatement
How is scarecrow "underutilized"? He Managed to Do many things that no one, outside of brainiac, could accomplish. He unmasked batman, bombed gotham with fear Gas and made bruce go into hiding.
Deathstroke was also not underutilized. He became the Boss of the milita, after the knight disappeared, and was only beaten due to being caught off guard.
@@djb9267 i love arkham knight but we do have to acknowledge and see how other perspectives. Like whilst yes scarecrow did alot i think the underutilisation part of is he was more like commanding not having his hallucination levels showing his past trauma and fears but instead just increasing jokers power which is fine but could have done more.
And look the deathstroke fight was hugely disappointing cause we had the arkham orgins fight and we know what this man can do and yes him being in command of the milita is cool but the tank fight and 1 punch knockout was hugely disappointing cause this is deathstroke the terminator the man who jason sought out cause he was thr toughest basterd he went up against and this was the fight......come on man
@@teddyisaliar271 Batman did see his past Trauma, in the Form of jason being tortured. This is batman's greatest failure, and is being shown to him over and over again.
Deathstroke's underwhelming Boss fight was because of the batmobile. Why would slade go alone, if batman has access to a Tank? Deathstroke was also caught off guard by batman, which he comments on.
@@djb9267 yes we saw the trauma but it wasn't scarecrow doing it it was the joker. And im sorry whilst yes they do make an off hand comment about the circumstances that doesnt make it good. Cause wh on the right mind goes ah yes we have one of DC famous mercenaries/assassin and for his fight we put him in a tank. And your tank argument is bad cause look at the game and how many other villains batman went up against without the tank. The arkham knight boss was hand to hand. Riddler hand to hand, two face, azreal if you choose the bad ending, prof pyg, penguin, deacon and maybe others i cant go off my mind who all know batman probably had a tank. And slade knew this he had the ball in his hand and he knew if he said a battleground batman would go there so you could have easily said a rooftop or somewhere else. No matter what you try to say it will always be bad and not a good representation of the character and bad moment for the game
@@djb9267he feels like he doesn't have much of hands on the story compared to Jason and he doesn't have any memorable moments or scenes aside from two.
While I do like Arkham Knight I do agree with a lot of Godzilla’s critiques. Particularly the Joker shooting Jason for no reason after torturing him for an entire yr made no sense, and your rebuttal that Joker knew Jason would become the Arkham Knight yrs later seems even more ridiculous and convoluted. Joker’s blood being magic and able to turn people into Joker clones,Scarecrow being able to subdue Batman with just a gun, all of these are valid critiques that I don’t think you did much to make them seem less valid. Your rebuttals annd explanations came across a rather flimsy and weak in my opinion.
I don’t think you were paying attention at all. Joker faking Jason’s death was meant to mess with Batman. The four infected people at panessa studios were being affected by mutated version of creutz jakob disease. A real disease that causes personality changes. And it’s a mutated form of it so it’s way more severe. This is a result of titan gestating in their blood for too long, and if you payed attention to Arkham Asylum, you’d know that doctor young intended the titan formula to serve as treatment for the minds of the Arkham inmates. So why wouldn’t the titan formula have some weird effects on a person’s mind and thinking patterns? Also the white skin and green hair is makeup. In regards as scarecrow subduing Batman with a gun, I guess you completely ignored the fact that Batman got hit with fear toxin while in the truck and was incapacitated from it like he was at staggs airships. And I know you’re just saying “in my opinion” as flimsy shield from criticism because you’re blatantly ignoring pre established facts for the sake of making an awful point.
@@MistahJ1940 1. What a lazy excuse. How does Joker faking Jason's death mess with Batman more than just killing Jason outright? He can hurt Batman and get rid of a potential nuisance at the same time. S.K. is the one implying in this video that Joker knew Jason would grow up to become an enemy to Batman which is convoluted and not backed up by anything. Blame S.K.s leaps in logic, not me.
2. Jakobs disease is fatal so a mutated and more severe version of it would just kill the 4 infected even quicker rather slowly turn them into Joker clones. Also, the disease isn't just deteriorating their brains, its being so specific as to turn them into Joker clones with them murdering and mutilating people, carving smiles into their faces, laughing maniacally, being obsessed with Batman and their skin and hair changing color (And yes, there hair and skin are changing color. It's not just makeup and dye, you literally pulled that out your ass. Nowhere is it said to be makeup and dye.) Henry Adams was stable enough to trick and manipulate Batman like Joker would, is this something someone with a deteriorating brain would or could do? Joker's blood turning people into his clones is just a shitty plot idea, Jakobs disease or not.
3. The Titan formula was not intended for Arkham patients mental health, it was specifically designed by Dr Young and Joker as a super steroid. Dr Young's only goal for the drug was to make patients physically stronger. Why else would she use Venom, a super steroid with no benefits to mental health as the precursor? So the Titan formula having any effect on making Joker clones is just more magic handwavy nonsense.
4. And no, Batman wasn't dosed with any fear toxin before his final confrontation with Scarecrow. Why do you insist on making stuff up? It only hurts your arguments and makes you look like an idiot. And even if he was, he was perfectly fine when Scarecrow showed up to strap him to the gurney, so there is still no excuse for why Batman couldn't subdue the physically weak Scarecrow. Good job being wrong about damn near everything showing you know very little about the game you're defending.
@@kingmob2716 to pitch in on this for claim 3 about Venom it does have mental effects.....it turns you into a blind rage with a lower intelligence that's it's only mental effects and it's not a good effect to have
@@kingmob2716okay I see you're pretty cocky and itching for answers so I got the canonical explanations for one of them and before you want to get all bent out of shape about it note I don't like this game(or your additude) so here.
The reason why joker didn't kill Jason was because he did intend to have him be something similar to Arkham knight in the sense that he'd be a weapon used against Batman.
Basically Joker planned to torture Jason and brainwash him into subservience so that he could use him to emotional wound Batman in a far more greater way.
He initially planned to use Jason to fight Batman along with his titan army that's why Jason was secretly kept in an abandoned wing of Arkham along where project titan was.
But after Dr Young noped out of the plan Joker decided to use Arkham Asylum as his final battle ground with Batman as he planned to wear him down with the imitates and titan henchmen. He original planned to have Batman show up beaten and hurt in his throne room and have Jason arrive and force Batman to fight his own son while he sits and watches. But Jason escaped that night and vowed revenge on both of them, Joker then improvised and used the titan henchmen and gave himself titan to beat Batman.
Joker in this series is the master at the long con as many of his plans even the most smallest ones are months or years in the making such as that oil rig amusement park.
From a sadistic point of view it's more enjoyable to see the look and shock on Batman's face as his own son thought to be dead shows up with to snuff him out. It's kinda like how MHA why All For One didn't kill Nana Shimura's family or her grandkid but instead turned him into a villain as it's more painful to corrupt then kill.
@@kingmob2716If batman found out that jason wasn't dead, but instead someone out to kill him, he would obviously feel worse than if joker just killed jason.
great video actually made amazing points and this reminds me of when you made the spider-man ps4 criticisms and people pointed out the flaws it looks like a redemption arc hope you keep making great content
At 24:24 in the game there’s multiple conversations thugs have that make them think Batman snapped because he supposedly killed him in Arkham city
Those thugs don’t represent everyone
@@MistahJ1940For all everyone knew Joker was “cured” and then Batman walks out of the theatre and Joker is dead. Seems like a reasonable assumption most people would end up making.
@@B_D75 No they wouldn’t think that considering Joker’s face still looked like it had cellular degradation.
@@MistahJ1940 Harley and a lot of the criminals think Batman killed Joker. Rumors and misinformation can spread really fast. It isn’t really confirmed either way what most people think, but I don’t think Godzilla Mendoza was being unreasonable when he assumed that.
i still think the joker infection doesn't really make sense. it killed joker and nearly batman in city, so why would its symptoms change in knight? i also don't get how they were able to save all the infected people since they had the infection before batman, and he was about to die in wonder city.
I still think Arkham Knight is the weakest, maybe not the worst, but the weakest, in terms of story and gameplay. I would rather play Asylum City or Origins than Knight, but if I had to pick between Suicide Squad Killed Batman or Arkham Knight… I would choose Arkham Knight.
D1 glazing right here
The story was bad but this guy had bad criticism for it
@@kwayneboy1524 Definitely not almost every point was valid? (On gm side)
@@RyanGP1203_MemeLord Godzilla had a lot of bad points due to bad researching
I’ve seen that video before, and I quite agree with that
Although I can still understand Jason’s hatred for Bruce in this story
1:07 in fairness it does feel like he is the main villain since he technically overshadows them
Thank you for making this. I commented on that guys video a while back saying it did not age well. Thank you so much for these arguments that actually make sense
If mendoza did even a lick of research he would have answers to all the questions he is asking.
23:17 I mean it's still weird that bruce didn't find jason in that abandoned wing at arkham. Yes the aylum is huge but no huge that's it's just impossible to navigate. Although I guess that happened in batman beyond return of the joker. It's a little bit weird. A little unavoidable factor.
The problem is that Batman doesn’t know where to look until he gets a video from Joker. And by then, Jason and Joker would’ve been gone. And all Batman would have is the background. No specific location.
@@s.k.4289 The World's Greatest Detective couldn't track down Joker and Jason after months of searching despite them being in Gotham the whole time? Not only that but they were in Arkham Asylum, a place Batman should know like the back of his hand, and he has a backup Batcave on the island? Batman needed Joker to send him a video months after the kidnapping before he starts looking?
I could understand if Joker was moving Jason around to different locations so Batman would have a hard time finding them but if Joker was just spending months in the same place, a place Batman should be extremely familiar with, it's absolutely laughable that Batman wouldn't be able to find them.
He is a detective when you are a detective you kinda need a lead to know where to find someone.
Hell yeah, the story for Arkham knight is awesome, I’m glad someone agrees.
6:00 on top of that Batman didn’t take the full dose of the cure. Remember Freeze broke one of the vials, so Batman only drank half of it because he was planning to save The Joker
Joker was overused. He didn't need to be in every game. The first and second was fine but when Knight happened I feel like he should've been in flashbacks but not being forced in 100% of the game.
The story between Batman and Joker is literally the main point of the games.
Joker is the biggest Batman villain, plus I'm sure it helps with sales. It probably was a no-brainer to put him in the game.
@@marcelosoares7148 as per usual money before quality
says about one of the best looking games out there.@@MILDMONSTER1234
you say about one of the best looking games out there@@MILDMONSTER1234
W video.
20:16 i wanted to add in extra Arkham Material its stated that "But when Batman encounters the mysterious Arkham Knight, he ignores, perhaps deliberately, clues to the Knight's identity. For if the Arkham Knight is who Batman secretly suspects him to be, then that means he has truly failed someone he considers family." meaning even ignoring the fact that from Batman's POV Jason is dead then the story will still work.
Once again, a great video, i'm looking forward to see more of your positive takes on movies and games.And Arkham Knight Scarecrow is probably the best portrayal of character next to TNBA.
30:56 You know, given what EVERYONE has said about Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League, that kind of doesn’t hold up now.
Why is he called Batman, yet isn't a bat? Plot hole. 😠😠😠😠😤
15:48 it kinda seems like he believes the tank used to carry the cloudburst is actually the device itself
1:34 plus the joker blood which mutates after being ingestated for too long and attacks the brain, turning the individual into the joker.
meanwhile the fear toxin only made the symptons worse.
Thanks "fart master"
@@adrianalobo6780 no problem, "adrian".
i can explain in greater detail if anyone wishes however.
30:19 Since when is Scarecrow a "B-list Batman villain", GM? He's like, one of his top 10 biggest antagonists.
No way is Scarecrow a top 10 Batman villain anymore. He hasn’t had a relevant storyline in decades and kind of just does the same thing over and over.
Yeah no
@@RyanGP1203_MemeLord Yeah yes
6:40 I think you’re really reaching here. When Robin says that Batman is turning into the Joker we have no choice but to take him at his word and assume he’s right. Batman and pretty much everyone else operate under the belief that he’s turning into the Joker and not once does anyone in the game challenge that . If it was just the fear toxin they would have said so but they don’t. It seems like you’re trying to make your headcanon a reality that every one has to accept despite there being no evidence for it.
They did say so. Batman said he had a bad reaction to the toxin but is fine when Alfred questioned if he’s okay, and Joker immediately shows up onscreen to contradict that. That’s directly implying it’s the fear toxin. Robin stating something doesn’t make it correct because he can be wrong. Batman is only afraid of the possibility he had the disease and the fear toxin played into that. The resolution to that was “I’m not afraid” after he overcomes his vision of becoming the Joker.
@@s.k.4289 No they didn't say so. Yes, Robin can be wrong, but the narrative never challenges his original hypothesis. Not once does anyone in the story contradict Robin's original statement. I mean what was the point of having the four civilians who were given Joker's blood are turning into Joker plotline if not to set up the big "Batman is turning into Joker" twist? That entire plot point becomes a waste of time if Batman was never actually turning. They could have easily said at the end that the 'Batman is turning into the Joker' idea was wrong but they never do. This is what I mean with you making a headcanon and adding details that don't actually exist in-game. Even if your theory makes more sense if it wasn't the intention of the writers there's no point in using it in defense of the game. I would bet money if you asked any of writers, they would confirm that Batman was actually turning into the Joker.
@@gigagod3384 Batman prepares the 5th cell because he's paranoid of the possibility of having this disease. The game directly implies that the fear toxin caused the Joker hallucinations when Alfred questions him on if he's okay, and Batman claims he is. The narrative does contradict Batman claiming he's fine after the fear toxin, by having Joker pop up right after he says he's fine. It seems very deliberate. I will say that it could be explained better so that the gamer doesn't have to do as much legwork to understand this, but I feel like the pieces are all in the game. The information supports what I said. I also don't think writer's intention is always the strongest metric for determining something, because the work should speak for itself.
@@s.k.4289 So one small scene that somewhat but not really implies it’s just the fear toxin is enough to convince you it’s just the fear gas but not the hours upon hours of the game insisting and screaming in your face that Batman was really turning into Joker? An idea that is never questioned for the entire game by anyone? No piece of dialogue discussing the possibility of it just being fear gas? Just a scene that barely implies anything is enough for you? I have no idea why the Batman being dosed with fear toxin scene is such a big deal to you. It's nothing more than a set up for the Joker disease twist. Were led to believe it's just fear toxin hallucination but then the real reason is revealed later. The Joker disease plot is the driving force of half the game. Does that make any narrative sense to set up a plot point, have that first plot be swepped aside with a twist reveal that sets up half the games narrative but then have the twist not be real and the first plot was the real one, but the game never discusses or confirms if it's real or not? It would make no sense to have the fear toxin be the real reason but then have the disease plot take up half the story and then it turns out to be the fear toxin all along. What a waste of time that would be.
@@gigagod3384 That "one small scene" is an explicit confirmation that the fear gas is causing these side effects, additionally evident by the effects only being experienced upon exposure to fear toxin. As well as Joker saying "give me some more of that fear toxin" in one of the hallucinations. And the fact that Batman's side effects are resolved by him shutting out his fears. Using the fact Batman believes it to be the case at first and that Tim believes it to be the case doesn't disprove the reasoning above, because what characters believe are not always fact. And Tim has reason to believe it based on how the fear toxin is affecting Batman. From his POV, he has just been working with the Jokers all night and Batman must have left a 5th cell for a reason. Batman's preparation of the 5th cell is because he's paranoid of the possibility that this could have happened to him and manifest at any moment. Like I said, I think the game could have done a better job explaining it so there's less legwork required to figure it out, but based solely on the information in these games, it's evident that the fear toxin is causing his hallucinations. Was it just a coincidence that he faced side effects only after being exposed to the fear toxin? Was it just a coincidence that Alfred brings up the possibility of bad side effects, only for Batman to say he's fine then be immediately contradicted by the Joker showing up on his screen? Was it just a coincidence that Batman stopped facing side effects when he's no longer afraid? Food for thought. If you're down for a Discord VC to discuss the game I'm down too.
Considering he didn’t understand the function of jokers blood and it’s infection, he must’ve had a really strange experience playing the games
But he's right?
But the titan affected people should've died batman was gonna die after a few hours but these regular people somehow survived it ?
Because Joker gave Batman a lot more of his infected blood because he’s his enemy
@@BaneStopMotionI haven't seen that stated anywhere ? And joker even said there's a "tiny bit of me in you too". So that makes no sense
@@durpy8184 it’s just speculation because he’s more likely to give batman more blood and the blood donated will probably be spread out more
@@durpy8184 and saying there’s a tiny bit doesn’t mean anything it’s just because Batman will have more of his own blood than joker’s
@@durpy8184joker says that in one of his many dialogues in arkham knight.
(The part of Batman having more blood in him i mean)
Awesome video, I understand why people don't like Knight's story and agree with said people to some degree, but as this video has shown, it's far more fleshed out than it's given credit for.
Hey S.K. What's your opinions on the Dark Knight Rises? I heard some people are mixed about that film.
Weak ending with some stuff I like
@@s.k.4289 I haven't watch the movie but the ending is most when everyone talks about the film. Btw, I like the video and Arkham Knight is my personal favorite.
@@s.k.4289basically Arkham knight
It baffles me how some people go on and on about the "One Bad Day" thing, and yet they still pretend they support Joker having a multiple choice backstory. The Killing Joke is not the definitive Joker story. It is just one Joker story and portrayal out of countless, and I'd argue that it isn't even close to the best (my favorite is the Arkham Trilogy, followed closely by his first appearance back in "Batman #1" and then "Mad Love"). Furthermore, the story even says that "One Bad Day" is just Joker's attempt to delude himself into believing everyone else is like him, as his attempt to recreate it with Gordon fails miserably. Almost every backstory we've gotten for Joker is implied to be nonsense resulting from his inability to accurately remember his past, so why do people take this one as gospel?
Also, "One Bad Day" is not the whole appeal of the Joker. The main appeal, the one thing that has been mostly consistent about the character for the last 85 years, is his love of darkly comedic mayhem simply for the sake of having fun. The Joker is entertaining because he does things that, while evil, are also hilarious, and we get to laugh along with him at the joke because it isn't real life. He's the type of villain that doesn't need a cause or an understandable backstory. He's just a heartless monster with a dark but excellent sense of humor, although I'll admit that some stories, such as "Batman-Who-Tries-Too-Hard" (Sorry, Batman-Who-Laughs) have sadly misinterpreted this as meaning that all you need to write the Joker is bland shock value gore and the line "HaHaHa!"
Do you think Under the Red Hood and Arkham Knight are both good storylines in their own ways ?
In my personal Opinion Under The Red Hood is slightly better written.
Absolutely
@@s.k.4289What is your favourite Arkham game out of the 4?
@@spider-manunknown9193slightly is being nice
Most of your counter arguments make sense
GodzillaMendoza really lost me after he apologized to Dan Slott in his video on Nick Spencer’s Amazing Spider-Man and going back to his old videos made me realize how much of a pushover/apologist for the “new gatekeepers” he is 🤷🏽♂️
His Arkham Knight review, while mostly good, is an example of being a parrot for all the people he likes/follows in his attempt to really get noticed.
What’s wrong with apologizing for mistakes you made in your video?
@@raycom201 1. GM was in the wrong when he did that bc he basically sided with guys like Dan Slott, WHO ACTIVELY TALKED TRASH/BLOCKED PEOPLE FOR ANY KIND OF CRITICISM (GOOD OR BAD)/ENABLED TOXICITY IN THE COMIC BOOK WRITER SPHERE BY COORDINATING WITH THEM ALL TO BLOCK OR REPORT USERS FOR WHO THEY DON’T LIKE BASED OFF “CERTAIN CRITERIA”
2. GM used his apology basically to dunk on “the Spider-Man fans” who “make the fandom look bad” and tries to justify it as “a moment in which I came to understand Maturity” (the same excuse guys like iDubbbz and especially HBomberguy use when they’re so afraid of their pasts creeping up on them [aka Troll’s Remorse])
3. He cares more about getting in cool with these big shot comic book writers/artists who actively have shown him disdain and contempt for critiquing their work than for fellow readers/fans who wish to share their opinions.
It’s not because he “wanted to make right a mistake” but that he wanted to seem like “the good kind of fan”…the kind who will just accept anything.
Sure he may have been a bit too nice to Slott given the guy's known for looking anything that remotely has his name. but all he did was retract a quote he misattributed to Dan.
You took the absolute wrong message from his video. Do better
You made a well-thought-out response to Godzilla Mendoza, but I'd have to respectfully agree with his opinion on the game, fully.
Well that's ridiculous because he's wrong.
@@DavidRYates-tk2tq How is he wrong?
Arkham Knight has its good aspects, but it isn't a perfect game, by any means, as far as the gameplay and storytelling go.
His criticisms were valid and pointed out the issues with the gameplay and story, so what makes Godzilla Mendoza's opinion on the game wrong?
@@TheRiddleMan-ci7hi his critisims were trash and debunked in this video. The game has its issues but non of it was brought by mendoza. All his criticism were trash.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Just because this video may see Menzoda's criticisms differently, doesn't make his opinion any less valid.
How are any of his criticisms "trash"? You don't see any flaws in the game's story
i believe what he means is that Mendoza did not present his issues with the game very well, showing poor research or/and poor wording that could be debunked with a simple full walkthrough of the game.@@TheRiddleMan-ci7hi
28:46 I think Godzillamendoza was being sarcastic here
Has your rating for Spider-Man Edge Of Time story changed after the podcast or it is the same?
No change. Still the 1/10 I thought it was before.
@@s.k.4289 That sucks, hopefully one day you’ll change your mind on its story because I personally think it’s a great story that just needs lots of explanation to be discussed about into detail.
Yk I used to despise ur criticism based on ur nitpicks on sm1 but I can’t lie u have redeemed urself over the past year ish. You give hope that people can change lmao 😂. Love the Colin and sk duo now uve truly earned my sub.
30:08 also, it’s called fear, takedown, and he expects it to be used on the guy who is physically in capable of feeling fear
One issue I have with Arkham Knight's story is you basically wait the whole game for Batman to catch up to you.
what are your thoguhts on Loki?
the mcu show am refering
I’ve never seen you before…but got I love your Spooder-man 2099 profile! 🤣🤣🤣
Not a fan of most of your arguments, like the joker blood or utility belt. Feel like this video is just you piggybacking of someone
To be fair Godzilla made way worse points.
@@funnyclown12345 Yeah but S.K's rebuttals in this video aren't much better. Like the Joker tortured Jason for months, shot him but missed on purpose and knew Jason would grow up to become the Arkham Knight? Is that really the best S.K could come up with?
@@jameshoreman475 i don't think is that he knew he would become the arkham knight, joker was just having the fun of his life making batman's sidekick hate him while being beat to near death and wasn't going to cut it short anytime soon, maybe he even got a kick off seeing batman actually believing jason is dead, but then if i remember correctly joker does send someone to kill jason (slade? i think?) near arkham asylum's events, where jason finally escapes.
@@funnyclown12345 how? 99% of his points are valid
@@RyanGP1203_MemeLord the points that get disproven by normal gameplay?
I've never seen someone be so out of touch with a thing that they're "critiquing".
They say art is up to interpretation--that's no excuse to give fallacy to ignorance.
Citycels malding at KnightBulls
Wait. No. Batman DOES have the joker disease. Why else would he have a cell prepared for himself? He didn’t know that he would be exposed to fear toxin.
His eyes turn green because that’s what the disease does. It happens to everyone else. Fear toxin wouldn’t do that. It turns Cranes eyes orange because that’s the color of the toxin. It makes no sense for the toxin to turn Batman’s eyes green just because he happens to be hallucinating the Joker.
The joker disease makes no sense. Joker had titan in his blood, how does his blood make you have his personality. I like the idea of normal people turning into the joker and I like the jokers we got but I wish they got cured. And also despite that, it doesn't make any sense
Actually Batman doesn’t have the Joker disease at all. Batman made an isolation cell for himself because of the nightmare experienced in Arkham VR. Its literally stated that Scarecrow used the titan formula to amplify his fear toxin, that’s why Batman’s eyes turn green.
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259it’s not joker disease, it’s a mutated version of Creutz Jakob disease m as a result of the titan formula gestating in their blood for too long.
@@MistahJ1940 you know what? I apologize for looking for logic in a game series where a woman suddenly gained the ability to control plants. Your explanation makes more sense tbf
@@MistahJ1940 I would say you might be onto something about the titan formula and the green eyes but that seems like a massive reach. His eyes are only green when he’s at peak “Joker mode” which doesn’t seem to correlate with how Titan formula works, considering that’s not what titan formula does. And Tim Drake spells out to the player that Batman is the last Joker when his eyes turn green. Sooooo…
Also, if he doesn’t have the joker disease, why would he decide to literally lock himself away just because he is having nightmares? Seems like those nightmares prove he DOES have the joker disease.
Added note on top of that “Joker is the villain!” point- the idea of the Arkham games is exploring the Batman and the Joker’s relationship. That’s what it’s been since Asylum.
That's what the entire series is all about. Thank you.
@@TyAmador-yg3kp it’s so strange how so few people seem to get that. Amen man 🙏
@@shinesparkss5193 I've watch Clown Puncher 139 analysis videos.
@@TyAmador-yg3kp Oh fr? Ty for some content man now I got smth to watch 🙏
@@shinesparkss5193 Your welcome
Batman Arkham Knight is a underrated gem.
I love Scarecrow and how heinous his plan really was in Arkham Knight, I know the Joker hallucination is a big part of the game too but it does always rub me the wrong way when people call that the main villain, and not Scarecrow who's directly responsible for all this and heck, his fear toxin is even why we see Joker through the entire game!
This video made seven years ago that’s crazy
i know this is an older Mendoza video but man idk why but his opinions recently just seem…jaded and it turned me off from his newer videos, Will always remember having fun watching him talking about the Spawn games and Cartoon, The spider-man games retrospective, Gutter Space, etc
His videos still hold up imo
theyre definitely well made but i just dont really agree with his opinions anymore
6:25 i may disagree. He tells Gordon in the flashback before AK that he has the disease(he'll be here soon). While yes you could say Arkham VR is just fear and not proof he has the disease, I would think Batman would check his blood before saying that. Now I probably missed something so if you could explain that would be great.
4:34 Wasn't the entire point of the one bad day line that it was wrong?
Yep I feel like a lot people don't understand that.
Dude had the craziest redemption arc
How?
@@tuanmohdarfantuankhusairry2977 SK used to make vids on games like Spiderman PS4 and have a bunch of lame nitpicks just because he could hate, not for any real reason. Now he’s pointing out legitimate criticism on videos like GM’s- and GM is a great yter, but this is one of his “less good” vids. I hesitate to say worse because it is admittedly still enjoyable to watch but it is inaccurate
@@shinesparkss5193 almost all you said was wrong
28:38 is wrong actually. Alfred would crush Scarecrow.
Whats funny is that he thinks people liking this game is revisionist history, even though Arkham Knight (not the pc version) was getting good feedback day one. Nowadays the pc version is fixed now.
Great video knight is definitely my favourite Batman game
Very well refuted in nearly every aspect. The only thing I'd disagree with is Batman's Joker affliction. Given the events of VR, where Bruce wasn't exposed to the toxin, he was still affected by the infected blood (I'd guess the amount of the cure he took wasn't enough) and knew he was running out of time, hence the 5th cell and determination to develop a new cure. The toxin just enhanced the mental effects, which was why Joker encouraged Batman to be dosed by the gas more.
It really felt like GM's takes were rooted in CinemaSins type criticisms where it's easy to refute the claims, like why Scarecrow and the Knight didn't kill Batman right away. The game tells you the why and how, it's just up to each person to pay attention.
Arkham Knight is my favorite game, and it always pleases me to see in-depth discussions about its story, at least ones that aren't absurdly negative. The game has flaws, but not to the level of the story being called horrendous.
What happened to your Avengers Endgame video?
I don’t like my presentation in the video so it’s not up.
@@s.k.4289 can you make it unlisted? I wanna go back and rewatch for old times