North America's Sleeper Train Problem | CBC Creator Network
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2023
- Sleeper trains are making a comeback in Europe, allowing existing infrastructure to be put to good use. So why hasn’t North America made any progress on sleepers for decades?
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Glad CBC finally started to care about rail when it is most needed.
Hurray!!! Happy to see your work again! @PaigeMTL! Kudos to @CBCnews for supporting intelligent, interesting and fun Canadian content creators 🎉
I love a sleeper car, they need to be brought back on all trips. The passenger train should be a priority on the rails like the time before Via Rail.
The rail lines need to be smooth or separated from the bumpy freight rail lines.
My dad and I travelled in Italy for three weeks in '06. One night, we took a sleeper train from Naples to Venice. I loved it: the sway of the train rocked me to sleep, and because European rails are welded together instead of jointed like they are here, it was relatively quiet--no CA-CLUNK, CA-CLUNK--and a very smooth ride.
Most of the rail lines in Canada have been upgraded to continuously welded rail about a decade ago.
Most class 1 railroads use welded rail on their mainlines now, including CN and CPKC
it’s also the quality of the train cars
Ha.... most rails in Canada are welded... Jointed rails are almost all gone now, expect in a few places.
@@trainboy1979 Yet with his welded rail, there are more heat restriction than in the past with jointed rail... Those gaps allow the steel rails to expand and contract as the temperature changes from the hot summer months to the frozen winter months... With welded rail the tracks become like spaghetti noodles when they expand and contract causing MORE DERAILMENTS, and thus more speed restrictions...
This video is so good. Thank you Paige and thank you CBC! Everyone else, send this to your MPs! Policy change won't happen quickly, but it *will* happen if we build up the public support for it.
In Bulgaria, in the last work day, you go to work, and at the evening you take the night train, and the next day, first day of vacation, you are already at your vacation destination
I took the Sofia-Varna night train once. It had one sleeper car and about 9 or 10 seating cars.
The US rail system is designed for freight only, and it's barely adequate for that. Even if there were time in the freight schedule, the trackbeds are often not smooth enough for passengers to get much sleep. We desperately need both high speed rain and sleeper trains to ease the pressure on our airports, but it will be a long time coming.
Extremely long overdue. Sleeper trains and high speed rail lines need to be a high priority in funding and USA transportation.
Well, if the tracks were open access, the other private companies would likely be very happy to share maintenance cost for the tracks to ensure they are smooth and high quality. Not so much when they tracks are owned and operated by one company. Just like any infrastructure, they're not incentivized to increase the service quality since all they move are freight that do not care much, if at all, about track quality.
@@zeighy Yet, the government doesn't have the financial resources to buy the tracks from the freight railroads. Nor does the government have the financial resources to maintain and sustain the tracks. Don't confuse local metro commuter rail networks with trans continental rail networks. Furthermore, the major freight railroads that controls most of the tracks in North America are the richest political powerbrokers of Canada and the United States... The likes of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, among others... Never ever betray the kingmakers...
I liked the video as soon as I realised sleeper trains were being compared to cryogenic hibernation from sci-fi.
Great content. Please do an expose on rail infrastructure in Vancouver Island that is now lying in shambles... Very good
The obituary of European night services was being written as recently as 2019 (There's a book: "Night Trains" by Andrew Martin). The argument that SNCF and others were making was the HSR and ULCC airlines had invalidated the business case for overnight rail travel. Thankfully the Austrians took the contrarian view, creating NightJet and proving that there was still a significant market for arriving at your destination in the morning relaxed, and having avoided airport shenanigans.
Very interesting video! As someone living in France with an interest about these questions, the return of night trains is good but actually pretty underwhelming compared to the service provided back in the eighties. Only a handfull of routes have been restored and mostly between capitals. This pales in comparison to the countless destinations it was possible to connect 40 years ago, even within a country. In Frances case, the national rail operator heavily invested in its high speed rail program, completely omitting the traditionnal network even though it is crucial for the country transportation. In 2021, the French government promised to reopen 10 french nightlines. This has gradually been watered down and no concrete action has yet been taken to build new coaches which are needed to run these trains (the old ones were scraped as soon as service stopped, as if they wanted to be sure they would never use them again). To the North American viewers here, it might seem that I'm just complaining too much and that I should consider myself happy with what we have which is pretty good. However, I just find sad that short haul flights and High speed rail were a reason too anihilate an entire network of trains that could cheaply and efficiently bring you further than high speed rail. Too show what I'm talking about, this link shows how the night train lines have evolved since the eighties (in 2023, only two of these lines have been restored): www.francetvinfo.fr/economie/transports/sncf/comment-les-trains-de-nuit-ont-ete-effaces-de-la-carte-de-france-avant-un-nouveau-depart_4051851.html
None of the rail advocates mention the MAIL... In North America during the heydays of passenger trains long before the jet airliners were a thing, passenger trains had on their consists a dozen or more MAIL cars... Notice at many of the older railroad stations and depots the post office is literally next door or across the street... VIA wasn't created by PT until RN created Amtrak after PennCentral went bankrupt. PennCentral the railroad operating America's Northeast Corridor lost its mail contracts... It never was about passengers, the mail carried the day...
Sounds like we need some major legislation forcing railroad operators to have the same open access and transparency in pricing that enables a competitive market in Europe
Sounds like you need to ditch your rampant capitalism, or rather a super skewed version of it, it's become more like some kind of monopolistic capitalism, - like in communism, except the monopoly is in private hands who do not need to compete as a lot of eg. price fixing is going on, shame😕
Yeah good luck getting freight railroads to give them priority/permission. There’s a law in the US where Amtrak trains have priority but it rarely happens and is never enforced
Years ago, I would take the overnight train to Toronto, leaving Montreal about 11 pm and getting into TO around 7 am. I could then spend most of the day in Toronto, get a late afternoon train back to Montreal and be home in less than 24 hours after I left. It suited me perfectly. Alas, VIA did away with that overnight train many years ago.
There also used to be a Montreal-New York-Washington train that you could board several hours before its nighttime departure. Now, headed south, it starts early in the morning from St Albans, VT. Last time I checked, there was a bus service that would take you there from Montreal's Central Station -- leaving in the wee hours, hardly an appealing replacement.
The Amtrak Maple Leaf from Toronto to New York City takes 12 hours (ten actual travel, two hours customs clearance at either Niagara Falls with CBSA or US CBP), it's a long day trip, This train makes more sense as an overnighter like leaving Toronto around 9PM and roll into NY Penn Station at 9 AM. The big challeng while the Maple Leaf is an international train between Toronto and NYC, ir's a milk run of sotts between NY Penn Station and Buffalo NY.
Love this creator content concept
The Nightjet trains can go 142mph, so they are already much faster than almost all the trains in America.
99 mph for the current ones, only the new ones that will be introduced next year will be able to reach 142 mph.
They can only go 90-100mph and and that’s already pretty good, sleeper trains are for sleeping so speed is not really important
@@CreatorPolar It's for sleeping, but also for travelling: the faster they go, the further you can go overnight.
Most of Amtrak's and VIA's rolling stock and locomotives are quite capable of doing speeds over 79 MPH, 125 km/ph, its the signals that keep that the top speed on almost all of the tracks, notice not ALL of the tracks...
These are good points. problem is how do you nationalise the rail lines? Cause that's what you'd have to do to turnrails into the equivalent of public roads IMO.
To be fair, the new European sleeper trains are a largely revival of services that were shut down in the 2010s. I'm so happy to see them back.
Take a look at Amtrak's woes on the Gulf Coast. They have been trying to reinstate the simple service from New Orleans to Mobile...10 years later it's still a major fight. I live in Moss Point, MS and would ride it frequently. Please do a video on this subject. Truly enjoyed your video. Lived in Europe and can attest to the great service.
So grateful to live in Europe. Just travelled from Brussels to Barcelona using just one highspeed train.
There's no direct train between Brussels and Barcelona.
@@slasherfun lol i live in Belgium and Bruxelles midi is in front of my house. I think I know better than you 😂
@@ammarmangala9814 Sorry, but the fact that you live in Belgium won't make a direct train between Brussels and Barcelona magically appear. There are direct trains between Barcelona and Marseille, Lyon, and Paris, but none go further North so far. And the direct train that goes the furthest south from Brussels ends at Perpignan.
@@ammarmangala9814 can you give me the exact timetable of that Bruxelles Midi - Barcelona train you talk about? Departure time? Train number? Platform? Intermediate stations?
I checked the timetable of all intercity and highspeed traffic departing out of Bruxelles-Midi, but I could not find any direct train to Barcelona. Maybe you have some inside information not known to the outside world?
Enlighten us please. This is important information given the demand for direct trains. The more you know…
I currently live in China and the investment the government does in infrastructure does wonders for travellers despite the country's big size. I can take an old slow sleeper train from the equivalent distance of Toronto to Quebec City for 12 hours or a new high speed one for half the time. The slow train sleeper is about 35 dollars. I just get on the train, go to sleep and when I wake up I'm at my destination. Nothing beats it. Unfortunately the locals prefer the faster, more expensive high speed train so sleeper train services are a lot less prevalent than before but it's still there.
Unfortunately I don't think Canada will ever have good intercity train service. Canada just talks and talks and nothing ever gets done. Politicians in my city are still talking about adding a subway route which I remember them discussing when I was a child in primary. The whole country moves at a snails pace and this mentality is what is causing Canada to lag behind.
Oh man, Montréal to Boston going through Crawford Notch would be *awesome*
Just have to keep Habs and Bruins fans in different coaches
Very long overdue. Rail line need to built for Boston to Montreal route.
@@counterfit5 The line they are proposing isn't through the "notch" sadly.
I took a sleeper train from Vienna to Berlin. Was easily the best way to travel overnight for a taller person. Plane and car seats don’t make for great beds when you’re 6’1
Great video Paige! Love that CBC is investing in my favourite Urban Planning channels
In the EU, every IM (Infrastructure Manager, the entity owning the tracks) has to publish a "Network Statement" with all the charges and conditions under which trains are allowed on their network, and those are free to access even to common citizens. That means I can download the Statement, look at track access charges, and determine with a good approximation how much it would cost to run a train from A to B.
Wanted to do an overnight sleeper from La Junta, CO to Topeka, KS this summer. For the mini low grade private sleeper rooms the cost was going to be $800!!! That is such a rip off!! Just to sit in a chair and not have a place to lay it was going to be about $170 round trip! They NEED to bring those prices down!!!
Fantastic report. I spent 6 weeks travelling exclusively by rail and night trains through europe, visited 13 cities in 9 different counties, and my rail ticket cost me maybe $600. For all the trips! (inter-rail). It's THAT competitive. For North America to be dragging their heels so much on train travel is such a disservice to their populations, and to the economic benefits of a strong, reliable train system.
Train travel is great!
Excellent! (Watching from France)
Great video. Would love the opportunity for better rail travel, at minimum giving a pour airline service more competition
isn’t a transportation video without a slam on Deutsche Bahn😂
Great to see Paige on CBC again!
Now - if only we had the rail infrastructure to support more passenger trains and way better pricing than is currently available.
Have used sleepers in Europe, and fleeing Halifax during Hugo, an the Canadian from Vancouver to Toronto. Insane that this is not more available. Airline execs running VIA?
I took this exact train two weekends ago from Montreal to Halifax. It was a great train, and I do get the point about sleep. However, the train was delayed by 4 hours and I almost missed my flight out of Halifax. It's hard to plan or stick to a schedule when your transportation mode is always delayed!
THat is also caused by the issue addressed in the video. Because the lines are pretty much all owned by freight companies they prioritise their freight. That is true in planning a route like in the video, but also in signalling once the train is scheduled. So often in North America is a train delayed because of a freight train.
You took a train from Montreal to Halifax in order to catch a flight out of Halifax? 🤔
@@partiellementecreme yes lol
I did Paris to Berlin, Naples to Turin, Odessa to Kyiv, Moscow to Saint Petersburg, back in 2006.
The question I have is why sleeper busses haven't caught on in North America. They're quite popular throughout Asia and comparing American road and rail quality would likely make for a much more pleasant ride and better times here.
Best we can do is a standard greyhound in the middle of the night.
Flying is such a miserable experience. Having to stand in the security lines, taking everything out of your backpack. This dude said 2 hours? You really need to get there 3.5 hours before your flight because you have no idea how long the line is going to be.
Then add the flight time.
Then you have to wait for your bags to arrive which could take anywhere between 10 minutes and 45 minutes.
Then what if they don't even arrive? You have to go to baggage claim.
Then find a taxi or rent a car (could take way longer).
Flying should only be necessary for international travel or multi day travel. Generally, if I can take a train somewhere, I'd much rather do that. I did a cross country train trip and it was fantastic. I took breaks in between the trip and that allowed me to see the country in ways I never could have done by car.
I also believe the lack of trains in the US can cause serious problems. You have situations where people need to evacuate suddenly and quickly due to a hurricane in places like Florida and this creates nightmare gridlock traffic.
Why can't the US just fund a decent rail system?
Great content. Please do an expose on rail infrastructure in Vancouver Island that is now lying in shambles...
He got off in Halifax.
Where is the story about the rail line to the 'new deep-water port' of Sydney, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia.
A line that's been laying in wait for a decade.
A man. I love the video and the highlight it put to regulate the trains line for better public usage !
Yes!! Paige on the CBC? Love it. I finally care about CBC has to say 😅
I'm also really tired of busses being suggested as a way to replace rail. You cannot create decent public transit with busses due to the very nature of them being on the road alongside cars. They add to gridlock traffic
There is just one train in the NYC-Albany-Buffalo corridor having sleeping accommodations, the Lake Shore Limited to Chicago. Unlike the others it doesn't stop in downtown Buffalo or Niagara Falls.
Not to mention it gets to Buffalo in the middle of the night both ways. No thank you; that place is scary enough in the daytime.
How dare you poke fun at Eurovision! It’s a very serious contest 😘
I’m booked for sept again ! on the canadiain
Loving these collaborations with Reece ❤️❤️
Problems with train travel:
1. Cost.
2. Passenger trains do not have right of way over cargo trains running on the same track.
3. VIA is on time 57% of the time last year.
4. When I get there I still need a way to get around the town.
Since greyhound went bust, we no longer have any traveling buses at all here...
Fun fact… our existing sleeper cars are 70 years old and are beyond their lifespan. VIA recently announced that they can no longer maintain them, and our existing fleet of sleeper cars will be retired over the next 5-10 years.
1:16 Well, CBC can join Eurovision Song Contest since they contribute to the EBU associately. Switch between that and Radio-Canada.
Excellent video!
i took a nigh train from Sion( Switzerland ) to Venise ( Italy) ... I could not sleep because of the noise while the train was going through tunnels in the alps ... France TGV are way more comfortable and quiet than Italians .
Trains are too expensive here in Canada and the schedules are awful. As a non driver, I would rather take the bus or fly it's cheaper. No deals in Canada better to book an Amtrak ticket and then bus back or see if you transfer the Amtrak pass.
Seperate the passenger trains from the rough freight rail lines. Our country need to stop neglecting passenger rail system.
Another problem which is notorious in the USA. Sleeper, business and 1st class train tickets are more expensive than there plane counterpart tickets. To the point point either fly or rent a car which creates congestion in the roadways and airports.
CP made it impossible for Amtrak to continue its daily Albany-Montreal service this summer by imposing hot-weather speed restrictions too difficult for passenger trains to deal with. Hopefully the issue will be resolved soon. I feel that public infrastructure ownership (as in Europe) is a better business model. 60 years ago, this outdated single-track route should have been dualed-out before I-87 construction was ever started.
"Rail politique" that pun hurt
... almost as bad as the "Deutche ban" one...
You have to factor in minimum comfort vs cost when comparing trains to flight. 1.5 hours from Montreal to Halifax in a cramped airplane economy seat is tolerable, but a 21+ hours in a (roomier) economy seat on VIA is complete torture - so you have to buy the room and spend way more money than you would if you flew. I decided to never take VIA long distance again after a Halifax-Ottawa trip in 1989.
I don’t think anyone recommends attempting to travel 21 hours on a train in a coach seat.
The high price of sleeper accommodation in US and I assume Canada rules out a sleeper for most travelers.
@@richardhazlett7070agreed !
I think those long distance trains in North America are for 'tourists'.
Damn that was a good video
I have used sleeper trains all my life including a CP trip when they ran a competing passenger service to CN. freight rail needs to step aside. Or parallel passenger only tracks. And provide Quebec City with a bus link to the rail corridor on the south shore. Backing the Ocean train over a bridge is ridiculous.
Parallel passenger only tracks will work better.
Isn’t that what I said?@@maroon9273
I'm so sad brexit happened: we could of had a Glasgow to Lyon sleeper train
BREXIT didn't stop a Glasgow to Lyon sleeper. We were never in Schengen so there would have to be a passport check however there's nothing to stop a passport check in Glasgow just like Eurostar travel from London to France.
@@mikefish8226 I know but it made it even more politically infeasible.
@@user-vv6vu1xj7t Politically it's fine. It's the logistics, no-one other than Eurostar puts passenger trains through the tunnel, even going to effort of not selling their old trains so no-one else can use them. The biggest blocker is passport control and security, you need a large secure area to process and hold passengers even St Pancras which is designed for this struggles. Personally I'd love a night train to Europe, do say Glasgow-Manchester (via HS2) then on to Europe but not having it isn't BREXIT's fault.
@@mikefish8226 You really think it's politically "fine" (accepted) to join schegen area. Then why didn't it happen under multiple labour governments let alone tory governments.
@@user-vv6vu1xj7t No-one said anything about joining Schengen. Please re-read then acknowledge your mistake.
North America need to ditch their rampant capitalism (or rather a super skewed version of it), it's become more like some kind of monopolistic capitalism, - like in communism, except the monopoly is in private hands who do not need to compete as a lot of eg. price fixing is going on, shame😕
In North America there's too much collusion between corporations and government. Thus its not proper capitalism.
I've seen articles saying that economic mobility is better in Europe than in the home of the American dream.
I can't help but think distance has a lot to do with the viability of it. As the old joke goes, you can drive for 3 days in Ontario without leaving the Province, in Europe a 3 hour drive requires a passport.
Rail is great for heavy things that have to go a long distance often. People take up too much space. Now if they started putting a couple sleeper cars on the unit trains, it would be both profitable and fast. North American's are too in love with their cars to pay more for slower.
I recently returned to Canada to visit family and took the Via Rail sleeper train from Montreal to Moncton. Here are my thoughts:
European sleeper trains are timed such that one can eat supper before departure and eat breakfast after arriving. There is no food on sleeper trains. ALMOST every night train has a 12-14 hour travel time.
Passengers are given the sheets and must prepare their own beds for sleeping.
Night train renaissance is particularly due to the efforts of the Austrian railways (and now SNCF followed suit), not Europe as a whole. In Poland where I have been living, PKP has not bought a new sleeper railcar since the early 2000s, and some night trains now run only with seats and no beds.
There are a few routes where Via Rail could implement this model, such as Montreal-Saguenay, or to Gaspé if track speeds were improved.
Another annoying downside is that if you live midway along the line the trains may pass through early in the morning and in the middle of the night.
I mean in places where this happens it doesn’t really deter people that much from taking the train. Also if you add a 12 hour schedule or a couple daylight intercity trains it isn’t all bad
Not even close to reality.
That VIA train from Montreal to Halifax doesn't even run daily.
And it is the only VIA passenger train east of the province of Quebec!
Isn't part of the story that both the infrastructure and operation of railways in North America (including passenger AND freight before the highway system and air travel came online - and freight even today) have largely been in the private sector?
It's one thing for governments (e.g. in Europe) to split their national publicly owned rail monopolies into separate infrastructure provider and operating companies forced to compete with new market entrants.
It's quite another for governments (e.g. in North America) to nationalize (generally very profitable) privately owned rail assets or to force the creation of a regulated private monopoly rail infrastructure provider tasked with opening up transparent access to multiple competing rail operators.
Combined with the reality of MUCH lower population densities in the vastness of (most of) North America compared to small, crowded continental Europe, it's surely that much harder to achieve much here by way of shifting back towards rail - even with similar levels of "political will" (the favourite "magic wand" of social engineering fans the world over).
The problem is time, I tried 2 trains in the US, one San Francisco (Emeryville) to Seattle it was so delayed that it took 27 hours when it was only supposed to take 20. The other was Acela Boston to NYC, that I felt was actually worth it since it took about the same time as flying. I originally booked a Toronto to NYC this year but canceled when flooding prevented the trains from reaching NYC, but that was also supposed to be 12 hours to travel across the state of New York.
So when on vacation the time I'd have to spend on the train is very high/compared to air travel.
I took this train from HFX -> MTL and it was horrible. While I would have probably had a better time in the sleeper cabin but for the 400$ I could have just flown in 90min!!
I am a European and I don't love sleeper trains. I like all the benefits, but the problem is the quality of rails is not that good and ride is bumpy. I have taken night trains in China and they do have smooth ride. But with our twisting rails I better not sleep on train.
It's very different on every country's network actually: a ride in Finland will be smooth, while a ride in the Balkans... well not so much.
Reece!
You’d think this’d be big in the US since it makes operation essentially free-market competition. (Then Canada could copy it 😄)
🙏
but nightjet is a brand of trains by ÖBB, not a seperate company. so nightjet does not operate anything, it is not a seperate company. ;-)
The main issue is cost. Adding a birth is rediculously expensive increasing the one way cost, by train, to the equivalent of a first-class *return* ticket by plane. It's even cheaper to fly or even drive and pay for gas, food and lodging. Having done all three, the train just isn't viable and w/e you go, you still need to have a car anyway. Finally, if you take the train to Halifax, the car rental agencies are *all closed* by the time they arrive, forcing someone to pick you up or you have to get a hotel until the agencies open up the next day.
Because gas companies lobbied the government to destroy the rail infrastructure and make it as inconvenient as possible to use.
You're terribly closed minded. You've taken the worst example of rail on Earth, and assumed it is the only way to do rail. If you've seen Paige's video on that topic you'd know why it is so expensive. It is the cheapest, and most efficient way to travel on Earth. Just not in Canada.
Wow you sure showed me! That's crazy how the laws of physics work differently in Canada! @@dylanc9174
@@dylanc9174 I've experienced execelent rail service... in other countries. Even here service used to be good in terms of price, frequency and coverage but successive governments for decades have cut funding in favour of roads and air travel. It's only in the last few years that they've *started* to move more towards the European model and even that is politicized with high speed rail being built in areas that don't need it, but contain ridings the government wants to win/keep, over where people actually live and work. Hence the routing from Toronto to Montreal via Peterborough and Ottawa and the *north side* of the St Lawrence between Montreal and Québec City (even though there's already good existing options). If the train service of my or my father's youth still existed I'd be happy to use it (and did back when it was a viable option, along with good bus service).
@@cstephen98 I don't know what is your experience but I live where it's the norm and I took night trains and they were far cheaper and much more relaxing than flights+food+accommodations. Of course, if you expect a luxury compartment you'll pay more but you can get a good night sleep in a couchette which can cost around 100€, which in many of them includes breakfast. A cabin is around 200€ for a single but much lower per passenger for more, like couples, family or a group of friends. this is far cheaper than driving/flying + hotel.
As for transport, unlike trains the state of public transport in Canada is pretty good for North America and, with inter city rail, should also be expended. If you want to be more like other countries you will need to invest in local public transport as well. In any case, you can still rent a car if you want. When people use trains train stations have all kinds of services, including car rental agencies at the station that are, surprisingly, open.
I'm from Barcelona. The rain station has restaurants, shops, all the big car rental agencies that are open every day all day (some even from 7am to 11pm), regional services, 2 metro lines, buses and plenty of taxis at all times.
If you take a regular service long distance/high speed train the ticket includes free regional rail transfer to/from the station in both the origin and the destination (up to 4h before departure and 4h after arrival) - this is all over Spain, not just in Barcelona.
When you provide good rail service train station are like the airport, with all the services you want, just at the city center and without the hustle (you can board a train up to 2 minutes before departure, although I'll give it it 10-20 minutes).
6:33 Reece of RMTransit CZcams channel👍
High speed trains don't need to be sleepers. They need to b exist on short flight distances. Montreal to halifax is much better by flight unless you have too much time to waste.
At least no more than 8-10 hours.
this is so depressing. is the solution just to move to the Netherlands?
Yes.
And you could come back as a tourist to full one of those long distance sleepers.
Ah, rail travel in (most of) Canada is in a sad state.
Too expensive in Canada it costs about 800$ to 1000$ more than Europe
Canada has more territory to cover with less people to serve.
Could be.
But it might just be the "extra" charge for all the scenery.
HaHa.
Hey shout-out to Reece!!!
Canadians making fun of someone? Now I can say I’ve seen everything!
Sleeper cars aren't new in Europe, they've been using them the same as they are now for many many decades.
True, but the revival in night train travel is. Even just 10 years ago, the night train sector across Europe was seeing mass closure of lines, notably lead by the, at the time, biggest operator, CityNightLine. A consortium made by Deutsche Bahn and SBB, the national railways of Germany and Switzerland.
They did this due to lower than wanted passener numbers, plus smaller returns compared to high speed rail and other offerings, plus competition from budget airlines.
By the end of 2015 CityNightLine had become a thing of the past. But ÖBB, the Austrian state railways stepped in and still saw viability in several routes, and together with SBB, took over a number of the remaining services and modernised the service. Including with the new service rebrand of "Nightjet" which matched ÖBB's other service types like their High Speed 230km/h "Railjet" trains. Needless to say Nightjet has been a huge success, which has also influenced other operators, both state owned and private, and revived interest in these trains. Especially as people were starting to become more environmentally concious at the time. Plus for private companies and others, there were still plenty of unused CityNightLine carriages lying around, waiting to be put back to use.
But all of this has also caused a new issue, which is that operators are running out of hand-me-down trains to affordably buy. There isn't much left and what is left is often so run down it's seen as unviable to modernise. Leaving operators with options to either bear the cost of getting brand new trains, or take another existing old train, not built for night operation, and rebuild it to night train specifications. Though as state operators like ÖBB and Trenitalia (who actually have the cash available) are now going ahead with buying brand new factory fresh night trains, it means their older trains can become available on the market as hand-me-downs for private operators and leasing companies to grab.
The North-American obsession with competition on rails is plainly wrong. Europe had much better international connections and a lot more long distance night trains decades ago, when National State Railways just could cooperate without the need to compete with each other.
And today, the so called competition is only a hobbyhorse from the European Commission. The revival of the night train was almost completely the work the Austrian Federal Railways, because they had the political support and money.
I've also been kind of surprised by the open competitive market as main argument while in France the EU obsession with competitive free market is perceived as one of the main factor to the decline of the different previously exclusively state regulated markets (energy and transport being the most discussed ones).
This is a bit too rosey on cross border european rail . When you want to travel from Germany to the interior of Spain , you have to deal with3 different countries and their systems. The national rail companies are slso very protectionist.
Ticketing and price information is very intransparant . When you have to deal with (inevitable) delays , your next (reserved seat) transfer connection is f#cked .and you have no guarantee system ..
China's "Sleeper Trains" 160/161 kph (100 mph) are its SLOWEST "High-Speed-Rail" Trains
China's "regular" HSR Trains go 250 kph in "remote" regions, like across windy western regions of Taklimakan Desert of Xinjiang, or high altitude southwestern mountainous regions of Himalayas of Xizang Plateau Tibet
in the rest of lower mountainous China, China's faster HSR Trains run 305 kph, 350 kph, and even 405 kph, through two-way parallel tracks running through mountain tunnels and over deep valley bridges
hundreds of millions of people use these HSR trains in China every day (not just every week, month, or year)
Sleeping could explain 8 to 12 hr, it absolutely doesn’t justify 21
unless it's cheap enough
Nationalize
And mismanage then like the government already with CN before having to privatize.
That's funny !!!
So, you heard Canada came about because of the railway !
...and FILL your own tanks...
So embarrassing Canadian trains
Yeap, right up there with intercity buses.
Who wants to ride it more than a day? No one but tourists. Toronto to Montreal or Quebec City. Leaves at midnight, that works and i might pay up to 100$ but why would I take a train to Halifax when I can take flair for like 60$.
CBC propaganda
Funny joke, Cletus. @@theracer6882
Because the train is less stressful, it replaces the need for a hotel (add this to the 60€ flight), at the city center with public transport connections (also add this to the transport to/from the airport) and you get a full day after a goodnight sleep.
Apart from that, if you'll invest in it the train to Halifax will be faster.
Night trains are great for business travelers as well, they can arrive to morning meetings much more comfortably than by air or car.
Did you watch the video though before commenting or just read the headline....it literally explains that!
This is factoring in travel time to airport, airport security, and requirements to be at the gate in advance of boarding. Also, Halifax the city is quite far from their airport.
You know the train you took received one of the highest subsidies among via lines
It's unfortunate VIA rail was so gutted. The ocean line could be profitable, if people actually took it. But thanks to slow lines, and freight priority it takes almost 16 hours to get from Montreal to Moncton.
@dylanc9174 That is why they are trying to build their own tracks. The CN public trade is joke. They become profitable by cutting losing money lines and pricing up remote routes.
@dylanc9174 tue problem is unlike highways , rail corridors aren't nationalized. This is why the network has not expanded. Look at other 7G country were so behind in transportation infrastructure it's an embarrassment. While Spain managed to revived and bring one if the faster train service in Europe in just a couple of years, in the opposite end were a decade stuck in talking about high speed rail between Toronto and Montreal with no progress at all
@@MrAlen6e We aren't serious about rail, just like how we're hot serious about fixing our housing issue. We need serious leadership with real interest in these matters.
@@dylanc9174EXACTLY MY FRIEND EXACTLY
what a joke, eliminate the 8 hrs you would sleep on a train, LOL A) who sleeps for 8 hrs? You need a second job. B) ALWAYS travel by car with 2+ ppl, there is NEVER stopping to sleep, just rotating drivers
The people who want trains are free to pool their own money together and build whatever train they want.
Why are you whining?
Government regulations along with two huge monopolies CN and CP preventing other competitors from entering the rail market.
@@kiddo817they all priotized airline over rail.
Let them all be and remain Europeans loving sleeper trains then. Loving sleeper trains while leaving any needy people back in town when on those sleeper trains on holidays.
Solution looking for a problem. Stop projecting other continent’s issues into NA. Different situations different solutions. Yes, Ive used sleeper trains in Austria,Poland, Norway, Germany, et al.
Canada and the US have a combined population of 350 million, equivalent of the EU and growing at a faster rate. Dense population corridors like Montreal, Toronto, NYC, Boston, Chicago require multiple modes of transit including good, reliable, and affordable passenger rail. We ain’t talking about some fantasy high speed rail here, just basic essential passenger rail infrastructure that Canada and the US used to lead the world with not so long ago. Nowadays, the rail infrastructure quality has deteriorated so much in some parts of eastern Canada and the US that it’s almost impossible to run freight trains.
Let them all be and remain Europeans loving sleeper trains then. Loving sleeper trains while leaving any needy people back in town.
Yes! Politicians wake up or get out!
Good to see @PaigeSaunders and @RM_Transit. 😊
For me to travel from Austin to Orlando, via train, I will pay more than twice as much and take 72 freaking hours. To fly, it's 2.5 hours of flight.