Holyn Handley Defeats Kristin Tattar In Controversial Fashion
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- čas přidán 7. 10. 2023
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Think about how this was handled compared to Henna immediately calling a penalty on herself a few weeks ago. Whether Holyn actually knew for sure or not, she had no intention of discussing it with her card mates or the spotter.
THIS! She didn't discuss the shot with the spotter or her card for any reasonable length of time considering the situation. She knew she was OB...
Exactly!
@@alexhickman2945 of course she was ob. She was called ob and took a stroke for it. That's not what the argument is about
@@Jase-ul5yi Yes, but she should have had to retaken the T shot because the disc never traveled in bounds at all. Look where she took it from.
@@billmartinn9851 yeah, I do agree about that. Definitely should've re-teed but I guess she thought it crossed
It looked like she knew😆
To be fair, that’s how Holyn looks after every shot.
That was cheating for sure in my opinion…fact is that disc didn’t land inbounds, so….
Landing inbounds isn't the argument. The argument is "did it cross the inbounds plain while in the air and where did it cross?" That's where she would get to throw from. It was close and I'm not even fully sure if she crossed our not with video. And they're not allowed to use video
I wouldn’t put a ton of stock in her “expression” of an OB drive in a high-pressure moment.
classic Iceberg TV - trying to cause controversy
Came here to say this. The disappointed look was almost certainly caused by the disc going out of bounds.
Right, like she would be excited to be taking an extra throw.
Difficult to see from the tee if it crossed or not. I would probably ruled it in, cause the rule says that doubt should be called in favor of the player, doesn't it?
Missy probably tired of getting smoked by Kristin to be honest. Tells Holyn she crossed so Holyn still has a chance to take the win instead of Kristin. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Seriously? I think you underestimate Missy’s sportsmanship.
@@rreed7537 Or you overestimate it, who really knows...
You dont know how people feel. Give a player some credit for going -10..Tattar lost.
You are 100 percent right with everything you posted.
She would have been equally unhappy if it never made it in, or if it rolled out. Both cost important strokes. Not sure her reaction is useful in judging her intent on this one. And her card let her play it as a bounce out. 🤷🏽♂️
My thoughts exactly. Super high-pressure moment, messed up her drive and it goes OB…her “expression” isn’t going to tell us much
Her reaction indicates her own assessment that the shot was never in bounds. "Her card let her play it as a bounce out".
@@FizzyP”Her reaction indicates her own assessment that the shot was never in bounds” - Nonsense. A player reacts negatively when their shot ends up OB. This does not automatically mean she knew it was never in bounds from the tee. In this case, even if she was trying to get a favorable decision from her card, the fact of the matter is that her card didn’t pay enough attention and tell her she should re-tee. It’s as much their fault as hers.
It didn't cross inbounds or land inbounds in my opinion
How happy is your face when you throw ob, whether it crossed inbounds or not? You have to remember that her visible angle is not the same as the camera's and the other card mates are way off on the side with a worse angle to see if it went inbounds or not. Benefit always goes to the player.
Absolutely
This 100%. From where they stood, they likely did think it landed on the line and then rolled out. Do we expect her to be excited about rolling out of bounds? Silly take.
benefit is one thing...........shady bs is another. Just like PP missing that mando by a country mile and playing it like it never happened...............shady bs
No no no. As a disc golfer, I guarantee shes thinking (oh sh*t I don't think crossed in bounds at all.)
This is the one thing imo that is holding this sport back. Having other players on your card be responsible for calling the decision is stupid. If someone goes against the other people's decision they'll look like they're trying to get an advantage and creates tension.
Btw why was there no spotter on this very obvious spot?
There wasn't even any discussion after she took the shot. It's when they finally get there Holyn is like "oh so this is the spot right?". Her teammate Missy just half assedly goes there "yup sure uh uh". Did the 3rd Discraft player on the card and Kristin even say anything?
@@purje7 kristin wasn't on that card😉
A spotter can not inform of what they saw unless they are request to by the players, so you could say it's not in her interest to ask the spotter. I'm not sure her Discraft team mates are very keen on asking the spotter as well.
Spotters don't have just "one' place to watch and monitor.. they have ann entire hole to keep eyes one. I've spotted years. Looking retrospect isn't smart.
She only asked missy gannon. Also a team discraft
Wasn’t 2 other players on the card also Team Discraft? Not saying it happened here but it’s a tough dynamic to have your teammates deciding your fate also. Benefit goes to the player but that’s either way. If Holyn says she never crossed, that’s the way it would have had to have been called. So it falls a lot on Holyn’s decision also. Being this close, I don’t think anyone can be upset at the call either way. Unless we break out them lie detectors like the bass fishing tournaments 😂
Didn’t look like the card looked for where the disc landed. We all saw with the replays that it landed on edge and kicked up a lot of dirt, so probably a clear mark where the disc landed if they cared look for it. At a minimum you need to throw a provisional there and look for the mark.
Never in bounds... Correct... But mind reading that she knew it... Thin ice, man.
100%
Agree!
She prob did know her eyes were on the whole time the person that throws the disc 99% of the time is laser concentrated when being that close to ob
We can't even keep track of the disc once it hits the tree. We just see where it tumbles out.
@@ViJt-oq5nq you can though watch the video with your eyes this time and not your fan boy feelings
Basically, Missy made the call. Discraft player making the call for ANOTHER discraft player! And of course the other two players on the card, were not going to dispute "big money missy's" call! Handley should have did what Henna did a few events ago, when she stopped play and indicated that she threw from the wrong spot. But, unfortunately, she didn't.
100%
I think reading into her disappointed reaction is not anywhere conclusive that Holyn KNEW she never cross in bounds. Even if she thought the disc hit the line and rolled OB, that's still a penalty shot and it's not a great result. At full speed and without a camera the card might have honestly thought the disc hit the line.
You are obviously correct. Going out of bounds in the first place - what do we expect her to be excited about that? From where they stood, they likely did think it landed on the line and then rolled out.
Even Henna blew her change on the majors by being honest and became guilt free
And brian thanked her for maintaining the integrity of our sport..
Your argument is that because she didn't celebrate a shot that was OB, that she knew it also never crossed inbounds?
Revisiting this, I have to ask, how many times have we made a throw and it's gone farther, or not as far, as we thought? All the time, right? It's hard to tell from 300-400 feet away, really hard. Her face may have shown disappointment, but that doesn't mean she was actually aware it landed out of bounds. It's totally possible, and plausible, that she sincerely didn't know, and was merely disappointed about hitting the tree, nothing more. Maybe we all need to cut her some slack. Her card had the same optical illusion as her, apparently, and none of them were holding cameras with a zoom when it happened. cc: @IceBergTV
We are (mostly) not pros and there is a protocol for when you are not sure if a disc crossed inbounds. You are supposed to throw a provisional in case you find out it did not cross. If she was not sure, she needed to throw a provisional. For some reason she was just "sure" it crossed, even though she had the same view as the camera and he rest of us. The lack of a provisional and the fact she has not gone back and watched it, are clear indicators she took advantage of the situation.
So Iceberg is flat out saying she knew it never crossed. Then that would classify her as a CHEATER. "if she knew". Cheater cheater pumpkin eater.
My opinion is that HH knew, so yes, a cheater. imo
@@coreydempsey4660 It's my opinion that you know that she didn't know and are a liar ... see how reliable opinions can be.
oh but youre wrong. @@jaimeperry7326
Why wasn’t there a spotter at that corner? They have one at the edge of hole 5 for this same reason to see if it ever crosses land
The problem here is that you dont only have her teammates to make the call...they are also demoralised from their performance and dont really care about this ruling or its importance. So WHY make a negative call for the only competitor in the group who has a chance for the win. Holyn is only human and wants to win so bad that sportmanship comes in second. So she takes a chance of marking where she "HOPES" the disc went out and the group dont even bother to question that. Sad for Kristin but unfortunately in every way just human reaction of all the rest with no intentions to punish Holyn.
It dosent appear to cross in bounds but to say that she knew because of her “expression” is such a horrible take when it was still an ob shot. She knew it was on that’s why she was disappointed.
This video earned you a new sub.
iceburg karen confidently reads facial expressions. Fitting, as you love to go there but more creepy than informative.
It’s weird if she was inbounds on her tee shot and went out of bounds why didn’t the spotter mark the spot with a flag like they usually do? Why’d she have to ask her cardmates where she went ob? Her upshot went ob and it was clearly marked with a flag.
Because they're being unreasonably polite. The disc was never over in bounds but no one on the card is willing to state the obvious. It seems to happen quite often.
Because the spotter was farther up the hill and was not in a good spot to make a judgement call
@@karlpage9028 The spotter was right in line with the angle of the OB jutting out, they were in perfect position to see if it crossed in or not.
Could she have done that "provisional" thing, where she throws it both ways?
I think if she makes that expression AFTER the card says she crossed in bounds, then maybe she would think she got away with one. She is upset right after throwing it OB and not really knowing whether it crossed then or not..
Much on the card as on the spotter. On this hole, the card's perspective would be tough being so far to the side, it probably is really hard to tell. The spotter should have been the one to call it, having the best perspective.
Why would she be pleased with her shot if it just went ob. If a shot lands in bounds and rolls OB on the 18th hole of a tourney you're not jumping for joy. She mighta known it never hit in bounds but I very much doubt it.
this isnt good for disc golf !
Because this was a pretty major win even if it wasnt a major.
i think there was something of at the players, and seemed that Holyn allmost pushed others to accept that she crossed inbounds ! probably it was the moment and all what made her so nervous and didnt know how to act under that amount of pressure.
but we all know that the final result is now really disputed !
If Holyn had started again from the teepad, she would have needed a birdie to be in contention and if we take a look all the rounds she has played hole 18, there was only a 20% change that she would have pulled that of and when we understand the amount of pressure when reteeng in that situation, i have to give it a doubt that she would have made it !!
ps: after watching the video and hearing your thought, i think we are in the same line of thought, i also think that because of the moment Holyn didnt want to accept it that it didnt cross inbounds and from a viewer with a pretty long look at Holyns game and manners i got to say thet she seems a bit bossy and probably players in the card didnt have the courage to say anything against it..
PPS: for all the ones who are still doubting that did it cross inbound, in live coverage there is a great drone view from the lake and there you can clearly see that closest of touching inbounds was the moment when it hit the ground and still OB, so never inbounds
"she would have needed a birdie to be in contention and if we take a look all the rounds she has played hole 18, there was only a 20% change that she would have pulled that of"
She birdied round 1 and 2 and made par in third. How did you calculate 20%?
@@secondson294 she has played hole 18 now 8 times and birdied only 2 times, bogey 3 times, quadruple bogey 1 time time. so it makes average of 20 %
@@artzi_ip Still confused. How is it possible to play a hole 8 times in 4 rounds?
@@secondson294 well you can be confused, i can see that you havent watched much disc golf.. she was playing the same hole last year also.
@@artzi_ip did you really just took into your calculation plays from the last year? O_o
Unless she was a complete ignorant and mindless person in such a position. There is no way she didn't understand the ramifications of having to retee. It's pretty obvious how hard she cringed with her body language.. She knew.. Thats when desperation kicked in and she turned into a bad sport.. She's a great player but it was obvious she understood the situation and what had occured.. Her trying to sell it probably was reeking of guilt and petty desperation.. yikes KT should realize that people who are envious are capable of this behavior and will cut you open to watch you bleed at all costs.. (paige pierce first and now handley and gannon) shame will follow..
💩💩💩
Desperation leads to deception missy,holyn, paige. 😮
I was rooting for Holyn to beat KT, I like the underdog and I'm tired of people trying to call Kristin GOAT already. After this I don't know if I will ever root for Holyn again.
It was unfair for sure, but you making a video about how she knew for sure. Is worse. She wasnt celebrating because she was OB. Even if she actually crossed. She was still ob she is still not gonna be happy
Does it have to land in bounds or cross over in bounds? I’d love to see an analysis of the shot with some graphics, it looks pretty close. I guess it comes down to the official ruling. Like in football, you can have a play that absolutely appears to not be a fumble, but it was called that way and the ruling stands as a fumble. Or an interception, or a touchdown. Whatever the refs call is how it goes no matter how wrong it appears. This seems like that type of situation. Im not mad at Holyn, I would just say to the organization governing the rules and the group running the tournament to look at it and make changes if that is what’s needed.
It's not about landing inbounds. It's "did it cross the line in the air" at some point. And really, even while slowing it down, its inconclusive. You can't tell for sure - If while crashing through that tree, did the disc (drawing a line straight down) even BARELY touch the line before hitting the ground. That's all it takes to proceed forward (still penalty stroke of course). Since the rules side with the player and on the card to decide, they all made the right call. Sure, we can sit here and debate while watching the video over and over in slomo, but it's still not 100% conclusive anyways. This type of thing happened for DECADES in sports before instant replay and it didn't "illegitimize" those sports... People are just so damn opinionated these days!😂Give the girl some credit. She played amazing and didn't do anything wrong here. Folks acting like she stole something eesh✌🌱
3 things to takeaway;
1. Kristin yanked her way out of winning way more than this were yanked.
2. Her reaction is a good reaction to a bad shoot no matter, everyone gets something crossing inbounds that maybe nevere were, hard to know ;) She never thought she were going for a tie only fighting for nr 2 (like most does over 4 rounds on the same course).
3. Now Kristin has an event shes not won too focus on next year, it will be glorious!
;)
IT was clearly ob!
@@billmartinn9851 Ofc, but was it ever inside the non OB airspace? ;) Would be better with a dropzone for that kind of teeshot.. One with a pinched angle ofc ^^
That’s on the card to call that. Can’t get mad at the call when you were the ref.
hard to tell where the ob line was
No controversy at all, its actuallty quite close, we don't quite see where the disc gets to before it kicks back ob. People with video don't call OB, cards do. The card didn't call this having never crossed, and there was a lot of money on the line, so maybe it looked differently in person than your camera angle.
You are incorrect sir. It clearly does not cross the line and the fact there is money on the line should bring more scurtiny not less.
It clearly doesn't cross the line when the camera zooms in. For what it is worth, even if I am 1 down to this person, I am giving them this spot, unless there is a spotter who is there to say it didn't cross. Benefit goes to the player, that is part of the rules. This is text book benefit to the player, and the fact that y'all are trying to make her into a villain or say she should feel bad about it is a little bit over the top IMHO. @@ilikesnow
Ha ha ha.. "the look of celebration" "facial expression"
What the heck are you talking about?
She had a look like.... "well... that might be in, we'll see what the card says and the spotter said"
I'd react the same way.
She didn't put her hands on her head and fall to her knees like she just made the worst error in the world.
You can't verify either that it was in or out... it's just your opinion... but be a good person and realize that at such a close call with no definite answer... chances are it crossed in bounds... because if it did cross (my opinion) then you'd have a whole other boatload of arguments on the other side.
As far as rules currently go, this was played out the right way.
100% agree.
Her face showing disappointment isnt surprising she threw ob whether it crossed or not no player is gonna be stoked about that on the final hole of a major
No one is going to look happy after throwing it OB. I don't think we can really know the truth on this. But it would be nice if there were officials to handle this sort of thing.
It was out with about 50-60cm.
How could they even think that it crossed the line?
It was out by about 1-2in..Benefit goes to player
Mind reading is unnessery here..margin is narrow but clear..never crossed inbounds watching it live. For me at least watching shot in person is usually much clearer then watching on tv.
Furthermore it might have looked close, but by analysing the place where she hit the trees and the reaction of the disc on the ground and taken in acount spotters poin of view would have made it at least seem professional.
Now it seem like a casual round with friends.. yeah take were you want..you hsd the best line of sight..onlyone your fooling is yourself.
The facial expression looks pretty blank to me. Not any info to take from that
Holyn played her ass off, well enough to win, but this will always have an asterisk on it in my mind. Shame, because she’s clearly talented enough to win on tour. I’m sure she hates that it went down like it did but the card could not reach a determination and therefore she gets benefit of doubt.
It wasn't that couldn't reach a determination, she just simply decided it crossed
She didn't act like she hated how it went down!
Shes not pleased with the shot reaction, thats all lmao
I think it's too hard to tell from the tee pad whether or not it crossed the ob line that curves down towards the water or not. Even watching the video over and over, it's hard to tell. People are being overly ridiculous about it.
Discgolf professionalism has grown a lot the last couple of years, mainly on the mpo side. The discgolf women are still behind in many ways. A few years ago this could have happened on the mpo side. Give it a few years and there will be a lot more talent on the fpo side combined with more professionalism and something like this probably won’t be happening.
Yeah, no-one has a sour face when their disc finishes OB on the last hole of a tournament when they know the best player in the world is on their tail.
Obviously Handley "knew" the disc "never crossed inbounds" because of her inbuilt Terminator robot vision system and the special access she had to vertical and lateral point of view video replays, in addition to the inconclusive and imperfect longitudinal slo-mo videos the rest of us could see.
PS. Discs don't have to "touch" inbounds, they only have to cross the inbounds plane. Doing so by 1/1000 of an inch makes it inbounds, which can be in the air or on the ground.
Yep. Never crossed in bounds and foot faulted on an earlier put. It looks like she’ll do anything to win.
WE GOT WEIGHTS IN FISH!!!
This is NOT on Holyn. Her "facial expression" is the facial expression of someone who just threw a drive OB. If you are expecting a "celebration face" from anyone who just threw OB - whether it rolled there from the middle of the fairway or never touched inbounds, I think that's unrealistic. You also can't put this on her cardmates. This hole tees off from a dock and the cardmates have no real view of the landing from the grass at the side of the lake - and even if they did, the OB line was a piece of string laying in grass more than 300' away. Further, each of the people on her card is also on the 72nd hole of their own tournament - and is about to throw a difficult Teeshot - their focus has to be on their own game.
The problem here is that the PDGA has structured the officiating of the sport in exactly the same way as 4 12-year old's playing 2v2 basketball in the driveway of one of their houses. Professional events need actual officiating - and to place the blame ANYWHERE BUT THAT is to ignore the real problem.
If i’m on her card i’m prolly telling her she was in bounds cause it’s almost impossible to know if it caught that corner or not. Should have had a spotter if you want a accurate judge. That’s on the tournament and not the player
There was a spotter, 50 feet away, right on the OB line staring at that shot like a hawk, and that spotter chose to not place a flag because they didn't see it ever cross in bounds.
When Paige Pierce leaned on a tree she called herself out because her card did not, those are the players I support and enjoy watching.
The best winners are the greatest losers
If holyns second shot goes 6 inches to the right we aren't even having a conversation about the first.cant wait for pregame show for last tournament of year, wondering 🤔 what she will say in her interview if they even have interview with her just have to wait and see.
Holyns disgusted because the shot rolled out of bounds when it obv landed in bounds
This vid is insane
No-one thinks it landed in bounds and there is no evidence of it landing in bounds.
how in the world does she not take a provisional, and nobody talks about the shot on the box, these ladies just go right up to there disc ob no matter where it went out they go to that disc and just take it by it, they don't have any discussions, they just walk up, say is this good, then throws. they treated this ob on this card like it was a round for fun, not the most crucial shot on the last hole of the last round of the tournament. SHAME SHAME SHAME
Her card said it crossed safe, that's all that matters! Get over it!!
1) Body language experts are bullshit. 2) I'm sure she's more disappointed this win will forever have an asterisk.
I put it on the card. Gotta sack up and say something. It hurts the sport when you dont.
Think of how much this happens off camera…smh
Her disc rolled backwards why would she be happy either way
It's never going to be perfect. Especially with no TV replays. Deal with it.
I would have argued that I never crossed. It keeps you humble and you kinda deserve to re-tee. People respect you for that more than trying to argue a bad shot. It’s not worth it in the long run. I could have made a birdie earlier in the round and this bad shot wouldn’t matter. So I would take my lumps and blame myself for earlier missed opportunities that put me in this spot. Like a field goal that wins a football game, if you played better earlier the field goal would never become a factor to decide the game.
Easy for you to say ... guess we'll never know.
@@jaimeperry7326 So what would you have done if it was you who had thrown that horrible shot?
We all do. 53 years of this sport, and I have seen many people argue shots. Weekly leagues. It always backfires. You may get what you want but everyone has an elephant’s memory about it and does there best to not be on your card next week. And it takes months to get on the, “yeah, you can now play on my card.” It’s better to call
Yourself out and let the card decide. If they rescue you then it can’t be blamed on you. Calvin H does that all the time. Calls himself out then waits for card to decide. It’s the safe play and keeps your respect. Maybe that is what happened. So this is a non issue. But I always call myself out when it’s obvious it was a horrible shot. It’s not worth it being on the “don’t play with the whiner” list.
@@mehameha4453 Say what you want but it's not obvious whether or not it crossed in bounds with the benefit of slow motion photography ... clearly seems like the perfect place for the benefit going to the player ... no one on the card could be sure it didn't cross in bounds without video. Anybody who would say 100% that it didn't cross in bounds during a round without the benefit of video is probably a jerk ...
@@jaimeperry7326 The card decides, that’s why as a player you need to watch the shots. They need to come to an agreement and it appears they did. That’s all that matters.
So are you the type that argues your shots or are you the type that lets the card decide if you are in or out? You never answered it. “Easy for you to say”, “Say what you want” what a sassy immature thing to say to an elder. If you came to our league and said that you would be banned.
@@mehameha4453 I follow the rules and let the card decide which is what happened here. I'm 100% ok with how it turned out. I think people claiming she knew and cheated are out of their minds.
Expression was just being OB in general. It’s hard to know if she assumptive sold it to card or not. Either way it’s a pho win.
It's not Holyns fault it's the card's fault.
She knows it was never in.
No shit she looked unhappy.....it ended up out of bounds. Regardless of whether it crossed or not, no one is going to celebrate going OB. Everyone is just on Tattar's nuts.
I confess this doesn't sit well with me.
She won the playoff but the card has to yea/nea under current rules
U had 2 Discarft players say it's in and a soon to be discarft say the same HMMMMMMMMMMM👀🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
I can tell you were center of drama starting back in your days.
I still think she would have taken a 6 on 18 if she had re teed. because she went ob on her fourth shot and made the bogey putt and if she re teed she could easily have taken a 6 i think.
Otherwise, this wouldn't be a problem
agree with everyone else why would you celebrate that throw for any reason
Kind of a lame take here by IceBerg TV. You dont even mention how she threw OB again 2 shots later. Basically then she was where she would have been after a rethrow. So, why is your opinion worth paying attention to?
@1:32, She's not going to be celebratory of this shot whether it crossed in bounds or not at that point.
The only thing that can completely remove the chance of this kind of thing from happening in sanctioned play is to do away with the rule that "if the disc crosses in-bounds before coming to rest out-of-bounds, the lie shall be marked at the last location where the disc was in-bounds before crossing the out-of-bounds line" and to resolve that any disc, whether it crossed in-bounds before arriving at a resting place out-of-bounds, will be deemed as out-of-bounds and the player will have to throw again from their previous mark. In this case, giving the option to play the out-of-bounds lie as a 1-stroke penalizing hazard is a possible way to change the course/tournament rules for future events to avoid a similar controversy.
I think your putting to much stock into face reactions lol 😂. That’s not a good shot even if it did still not a good shot . Even in slow motion you can’t tell . So it goes into the players favor .
Come on people. Stop speculating and giving opinions. Who knows if she knew it never crossed. The tee angle is different and the camera angle is different. Not to mention none of her card mates said anything and the spotter marked it like it had crossed. Either way she would have gotten the same score. I can’t believe people are blowing up her socials like haters. It was an awesome tournament either way.
It is a reflection of the status of the sport . The disc was out of bounds, as indicated by her face. Too bad the players behave like it is a backyard BBQ game .
Can't take the sport seriously , it is just a fun thing to do. A code of ethics akin to the Saudi Arabia PGA would help ?
Her cardmates are the ones who blew the thing here........shes only doing what she is allowed to do. Id have to say imo she knew that disc was never inbounds........so it indeed is a sad day for the fpo
The facial expression thing is a dumb argument. She could have just been reacting without excitement to being out of bounds, without thinking she needed to re tee. I dont know either way but I don't like the logic of that argument.
Nobody is going to be happy about throwing OB whether it crossed in bounds or not ... basing your opinion on her facial expression feels like a terrible take to me. It is the cards call to make and they made it ...
Whether it crossed in bounds or not, it was ob. What kind of reaction would you expect. Not good. Shit happens. Congrats to her.
You cannot see the complete in-bounds line on the ground from the camera shot. It might swing in a little just prior to where Holyn's disc came down. If it crossed the line in the air, then it's in-bounds. Maybe we will hear from Holyn and the group about how they made the call.
You can clearly see the ob line to the right of where the disc lands.
It the card says it crossed in bounds that's all that matters.
Holyn a cheater here. Either fess up, admit that you cheated and apologize or ALWAYS be a cheater. So far she is choosing the latter
cheater cheater
I completely agree with you.....her card cost Kristin's win.
The rule doesn't say it has to land in-bounds, it has to cross in bounds. From the video when the disc is in the tree it is very close to that OB line and the card gave her the benefit. Holyn did discuss it with the card because Holyn said Alexis told her she thought it was close enough to be in and Missy seconded the call. There is no controversy. If they had called her out and Holyn argued it to be called in and they agreed that would be controversial but this is an example of how disc golf rules work. "It was close, do you think it could have been in-bounds before landing OB? Yes I think you probably crossed over here then landed OB. I second that, I think there was a chance it was in-bounds here too. Thanks, everyone." Play on.
Exactly👏
That might make sense except that if you really believe that you'd expect her to throw from a spot where she plausibly flew over in bounds. That would have been quite a few feet back where the fairway swings out to the left more. She didn't do that. She just picked a spot that was convenient and obstruction free somewhat near where her disc landed and obviously never made it in bounds.
@@FizzyP Except that it's not obvious. If it were obvious there wouldn't be all the discussion around it. What is obvious is that the disc flew into the tree somewhere above the OB line and the card gave her the spot. I expect her to throw from the spot the card agreed was appropriate. Where she spotted it was right under the overhanging tree limbs where her disc went into the tree. You can see the tree limb is hitting her in the shoulder where she bends down to mark the lie.
I wouldn't pay attention to the facial expressions, but absolutely the disc did not cross in bounds. This definitely seems to be additional evidence that especially for high stakes matches at a professional level, there needs to be officials watching. He shouldn't be up to the card. I mean this just makes me think of the situation with Paige, where she knew she lost her balance and had a falling putt and called herself out on it to give her the penalty stroke that she deserved, but no one else on her card was even paying enough attention to see it. That's the problem. So yeah, should she have got to play from there? Absolutely not. Did she cross inbounds? Absolutely not. But at the moment, that's the way the rules are written. And unless they do something like some sports where you either have an umpire/referee making all of the calls, or have cameras that can be referred to, there are going to be things like this that get through.
How do you know the disc didnt cross inbounds? Youre only basing it on replay and video which the players arent allowed.
@@karlpage9028 I know, because it was obvious in the replay video. If players can't see that, that's a problem, and supports what myself and many others including pros are saying, that there needs to be officials. This isn't a $50 local league. These are payouts in the tens of thousands of dollars. This level of unprofessionalism doesn't look good for the sport.
@@karlpage9028 plus, it allows players to push agendas. I'm not saying that happened here, but regardless if it did or didn't, there are people ACCUSING Missy of promoting that it was in bounds because she had a vendetta against Kristin for beating her all season. I don't believe that, but it shouldn't even be a question. And the body language of Hollyn lined suspicious given the situation, and lack of excitement, again it could ALL just be coincidence... but it doesn't look good. Proper officiating would eliminate all of that.
Players arent allowed the replay video. If you want that to be changed in the future, then petition for it. Otherwise its up to the player and card members, and nobody knew definitively that it was out of bounds the entire way so she got that spot...You know this has been called like this for years, why are we debating this now? because its a big event?@@clintsawyer7702
Peoples comments are ridiculous. Just looking for something to comain about. She got the win and she deserved it. Nothing else to say!!!
Bummer on all fronts but Holyn is a bad mamma jamma regardless.
Holyn won. Tattar lost. I understand the disagreement, but at the end of the day this is what it was. Let it go. Congrats Holyn!
The card decision was consistent with other close calls regarding “did a disc cross in bounds or not”…vast majority of the time when it’s this close the group decides in favor of the player progressing up the fairway rather than forcing a re-tee. They get one shot at watching the throw so how can we watch it 100 times in slo-mo and say the wrong call was made??
Very obvious cheating
I always give the benefit of the doubt. It probably crossed in the air because only a part of the disc has to cross the line.
Not even remotely close. The only way they can beat Kristin is cheating. Disgusting play
I swear disc golf channels assume that everyone watches these live just like they do... Spoilers man....
Don’t watch CZcams coverage if you don’t want spoilers?
It’s not like you had to watch it if you want to know what happens find a way to watch it sooner
my issue is the spoiler was in the description... didn't even have to click on it. I'm assuming you guys don't have children and a full time job.@@mhoovair89