95% of all drummers can't play their own songs
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- čas přidán 18. 11. 2023
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Thank you for an amazing show yesterday. I expected you to take a seat at the drum kit but was well pleased to see you scream your lungs out. It was well worth the wait!
+1!
Glad you enjoyed it! 🔥🙌🏻🔥
batushka?
@@metallusmelandril7380 yes
@@Lykanthrop your in the original batushka right? Not the one signed to metal blade?
"This isn't Jazz, we are playing Metal here" I loved this quote so much
🤘🏻
Cool topic! I was also thinking about this many times, especially during studio work or during a band video shoot.
Overall my position is kinda in between: I have all KEY fills and parts locked and engrained into my body and mind, but have some moments that I leave "open for interpretation in the heat of the moment". It allows for a more lively performance, primarily during tours when playing the same setlist over and over gets repetitive.
Your point about fills that are improvised is totally spot on.
I'm not a drummer, but I do notice the different flourishes that you'll hear live. I've always wondered why they got away with it and your explanation makes sense.
Well, in our defense, there are many more possibilities and permutations in drums that we can get away with, and oftentimes we do it to embellish parts that we feel are lacking, or we've become bored with. Or it's something that we would have recorded originally but a) never thought of, b) didn't have the time to record or perfect prior to recording, or c) just couldn't play it at the studio session.
It's a phenomenon that many bands experience, even with guitars and other instruments. A band that has been performing for 30 years will never replicate their studio recording. Yes, there are the rare exceptions like Rush, but it's exceptionally common.
The reason Led Zeppelin broke up after Bonham's death was because they felt they had gone down so many strange paths with John that putting in a replacement drummer wouldn't have felt right musically-speaking. Anyone could have played his parts... but not the way he had developed into them.
very impressive topic, never though about this topic, need to show this to my band mates. greetings from Mexico lml
As a musician that grew out from metal (not out of metal mind) it was a very hard thing for me to unlearn. I'd watch all these bands live playing different versions of their songs, jamming their songs, improvising their songs. Took a long time to build that kind of playing into my repitoir instead of just playing 'the part' note for note.
Side note, blake richardson of BTBAM plays his parts to the note over and over, dude knows exactly what he's playing and when.
I think you would be able to produce an amazing cover version of Budstikken. I probably listened to it 20 times today and fell in love with the riff.
I absolutely love budstikken, it's super underrated, and I love the chorus.
I agree to a certain extend, I am guilty myself kind of. I contstruct many fills in the studio in various takes, and the best ones get the spot in the song. Oftentimes I don't memorise what I've done there. But there are key elements which I play the same. Kick patterns that have to match the guitars, or key fill ins I thought about a long time before hitting the studio. But live I like to experiment on fills or small groove variations just for fun. I am a fan of drummers who play certain parts different than on the recording, if it's tasteful. Something slightly new is exciting. If you are shooting music videos on the other hand you really have to learn every single stroke in order to match the recording. I learned that in the last 4-5 video shoots, where there were single shots of me through the whole song. After a few days of shooting you can definetely memorise every single hit you recorded. There is nothing more annoying for a drummer to see, than video footage not matching what you hear...imo :D I will always play something a little bit different live than I did in the studio but I would say it matches 85% of the recording, so 99% of the people in the audience will not notice, and that's fine to me. Fun over perfectionism :)
Always funny to see the 80's & 90's rock videos that had the drummer air sticking to the wrong parts lol. I'd have died if that was me...I'd make them re-edit the video 🤣
So what do you suggest for drummers be tighter
I agree. I play as close as possible to the recorded versions of my songs if I can help it.
I will say metal drumming has the advantage of flexibility in tight spaces
I strongly disagree here. Of course theres nothing wrong in playing the song exactly the same note for note everytime and on a more and more professional level it might have some advantages. But i dont see how improvising has any negative impact from the listeners pov as long you dont mess up. And of course you should preserve fills that are somewhat crucial for the song, but other than that i am all for experimenting.
It's a natural inclination to want to improvise parts and it's one of the hardest habits I've ever had to break. Growing up I played in the school band and in my own on various instruments and every single performance was the same, note for note. I didn't allow myself to improvise parts because I knew I would screw it up without rehearsing beforehand and I wasn't sure it would sound good without the rest of the band. I carried this discipline over to later projects and it has served me well. I tend to rush the production process because I find it boring and often make mistakes that I have go back and correct. Due to my knowledge of my parts, I can go back and record specific measures and the rest of the song will still be on point. I've been using the same amps, same guitars, same pickups, same drum tracks for over 20 years and I can go back whenever I want to remaster or re-record whatever I need. I leave the creativity to the writing process, not the recording and performing process and it has served me well.
Loved the video, very interesting example with the practice pad and splitting the track to mix it later due to a mishap. Congrats!
I totally agree with you and some how find myself relieved cause I thought I just sucked at drums for not being able to repeatedly reproduce a song or a section of it. I thought exactly what you describe "Why if my guitar colleague misses a single note is it so noticeable and if i change a whole part nobody gives a damn as long as I'm on tempo....are drummers just not relevant?". Thanks for posting this and keep up the good work, you are an awesome musician. Take care
Drums are weird cause you can change them up and the song still has the same vibe like we see with those Drumeo videos they do, or a really cool example is there's a video with Jack White talking about the drumming technique for the band The Dead Weather and at the end he plays totally different drums on it and shit sounds totally wicked and yet it's still the same song at the core
I didn't know Lars Ulrich made up 95% of the drummers, since he's notoriously known these days for the implementation of unnecessary fills & severe China abuse.
Lol
But as multi instrumentalist, who started out as a drummer, I get your point completely.
While it's crucial for any band member to know their parts & actually play the song they're supposed to be playing, I think drummers can get away with this sort of thing the most, since it doesn't make too much difference to the audience if the part after the bridge was played on the hi hat instead of the rids cymbal.
As long as a drummer is locked in with the song & stays within the beat & rhythm, that's what matters in the end.
And if a band has played a song over 300 times already in their carrier, it's only natural for each band member to improvise or try out new things during a live setting.
And to some extend I think that, while it may be true that some drummers or musicians in general cannot recreate their songs live due to a lack of experience or musical understanding, some musicians improvise or only play the core structure of a song, because they are just too much in the moment & feel the song differently each time.
A great example of that notion would be solo guitar player, Buckethead.
Someone of that caliber can easily play virtually anything, so I wholeheartedly believe that he's capable to recreate his songs note for note as well.
But in his case he can get away with improvising, because even his spontaneous licks & riffs sound just as good or sometimes even better.
Like I said, there are people who improvise because they feel a song differently each time, & those who lack the skill to recreate their songs.
And the latter is much worse Imo.
But personally, Im very meticulous & value the integrity & authenticity of music very highly.
So while I can forgive improvisation of any kind live, as long as an artist delivers an exceptional performance, I can see past those things.
But I do like drummers who stayed faithful to their studio recorded parts.
That's why guys like Joey Jordison will always be legends in my eyes.
Post Scriptum: Also, I really love those Dark Custom Meinl Cymbals.
Such a deep & accentuated, powerful tone... it's just beautiful.
I just ordered the 18" Dark China & 12" Dark Splash Cymbal to increase my set with.
Thanks for the thought provoking topic & for all your dedicated & passionate work, man.
Keep it up & all the best to you & your future endeavors !
Tbh I truly recognize myself in this video 🙄
Sometimes I use to change some of my fill and add some 16th double bass to have more energy during the songs.
I still play in the correct mesure but sometimes the tempation to add something is sooo strong 🤣
I have to work a bit on that 🥲
Great topic!!!
Nice.. love your job ❤
While i agree, ive also noticed that many guitarists with improvise bits of solos, or licks that happen as a 'fill'. Theyll keep the heart of it, but change it up a bit. I feel like it's a similar action and Ive found many that enjoy that it's not always the same. It can feel nore genuine.
One guitarist which comes to mind is Fredrik Thordendal. I don't think he ever plays his solos live as in the studio versions. But he is kind of jazzy and so are his solos.
Unfortunately I totally recognized myself. :D I think I'll only practice fills now.
Drum parts are so just much harder to remember exactly than guitar
I think some bands are just different, I know there are guitarists that play different riffs, I know theres some bands the simplify some things for the stage for consistency, and there is nothing like listening to an album, but live shows arent albums and can have a newer feel or spin if they want, I know there are guitarists that do this too, so long as its the same key, even if it is improvised, if the person knows the right timing for where to place these flourishes for live shows to make every show unique why not? hell even if its a case of a mistake sometimes shifting the song slightly to better account for the mistake and make it musical is an incredible skill, especially while live.
This might not be bar jazz but its not like there hasnt been influenced by jazz and blues heavily, its just a different feel for certain times, the real key is knowing where to use it, because over use of something, in any context, can get annoying
I always wanted to know who your twin brothers are? Thanks
To be honest, even as a drummer myself I think people overthink playing fills. Nobody really cares whether you play simple run over the toms or some complex rudiments, to basic listener it still sounds the same.
To me there are two types of fills. First are important pieces of composition that you should play the same every single time and then there are fills that signal smaller change or are simple embelishments. These are completely fine being improvised, it makes things fun.
I never played my original songs differently because I was unable to, I had came up with the parts and they were muscle memory after that. Covers almost the same unless I figure a better part then I play that instead.
More burzum please
Many years back, I used to program my drums on FL Studio, for my own songs. After having an e-drum kit in the last 5 years, I realized I don't have the skills yet to play what I programmed last time lol.
Dude I’ve been practicing my 80 or so programmed tracks exclusively for like a year and a half. Half the time I’m doing improvising to try new stuff in my vocab but also just to get them really down so I can breeze through recording. Ekit as well
I think this also depends on the type of metal that you play. For example in prog this is not so important as in the more extreme, fast and precision focused types of metal.
Most prog has clear and concise drum parts that require replay ability and if it's improvised it is usually not improvised in the studio but just live to offer something different and it's usually intentional in some form.
I think it works for drummers because we're percussion, not melody. So long as the main beat is there, the fills and stuff being different doesn't matter all that much. Plus guitarists often change and improvise solos. And a drum fill is just a mini drum solo.
Although the video content is different than the actual title... I agree with the title...
I never knew this was a thing ive always tried to play the same thing every time but I also dont play live so who knows
This is definitely a thing, next time you should compare your favorite metal drummer live performance to their studio’s version and you’ll see some subtle or obvious differences.
😂😂😂 ME !
I cannot play my songs because I change them every week😂
Yeah😂 It's me. Now I finally decided to make things right and began working on repitability.
I think the reason why drummers get away with improvising much more is that usually the audience will not notice any slight difference unless they are drummers themselves. That's the difference between a drummer and a guitarist improvising on stage. I'm definitely guilty of this too, but as long as you nail the grooves and the iconic fills, it's not necessary to play your songs exactly note for note as it was recorded. There's also the issue of smaller bands not always being able to play on the same drum set every gig, so you inevitably will have to change up some fills to acommodate a different setup.
How dArE you throw us drummers under the bus!!!! LOL
All joking aside, I thought this was about recording music that was exceptionally complex (or fast) and then struggling to replicate it maybe a few months or years down the road. Or the fact that often times when I am recording, I don't feel like I have fully mastered what I am putting down, mainly because I am trying to push my envelope at that moment in time. But months later, for example after more rehearsal, the song is then ingrained.
Drums aren't my main instrument so I've always approached it as i'm writing "riffs" for the drums.
heck i'd just be happy if i could play a simple 4/4.
To me its not that black and white. No need to have high and rigid levels of repeatability as long as the ‘vibe’ is there. Music performance does not rely on a validated process. Unless you go back to Sonatenhauptsatzform, anything goes. On the other hand. To become as good of a player as you are, I guess some rigid structure is key..
Guitarists change their solos all the time too. Not rhythms but I’ve seen famous guitarists play completely different solos than on the album.
As a semi-professional drummer who can replay all the parts I come up with, I can't say I agree... especially given that most professional drummers are a lot better than me, I find it very hard to believe they can't recall & play their own parts, like what?! Lol. It's not that hard if you've already thought about the best beat or fill that fits the song. Now, would I remember everything to a song that I haven't played in years? Maybe not...but if I listened to it once first, then yeah. Been to hundreds of shows & watched thousands of hours of drum videos...I can safely say most capable drummers can absolutely, with 100% certainty, play their parts. A better question would be "do they" play what they played before, not "can they". If you're talking professional drummers- of course they can, don't be ridiculous. Do they? Maybe, maybe not. My experience has often been to swap out fills for better ones as I learn more tricks or just think up better parts. Luckily drums can often have parts that are interchangeable in lots of different ways whereas the other instruments usually don't get that luxury. But playing a different part in a song doesn't automatically mean that person can't recreate what they did before. Most could if they wanted to, but if they didn't then they obviously decided to do something different. Now, if you're talking about jazz or improv music...that's a different animal. Much much harder to recreate, if not impossible, unless you record it & memorize your parts afterwards. But that goes for most musicians, not just drummers. Idk, maybe I'm just part of the 5% he's not talking about in the video, lol. My experience has almost always been the guitar players being the ones to not remember how to play a song. 🤷
...I guess if I were to assume there were drummers out there not capable of playing their own parts it would just boil down to memory skills. If you can remember all the beats, the fills (even the improvised ones), the tempo etc...then you should be good to go. If you can't remember how anything goes....that could be a problem lol. I used to have to memorize all my parts for different things long ago, so I got pretty good at it. Later I was in bands that only played improv music, so for a long time I never even tried to remember what I was playing from song to song. Luckily I'm in a band now where I can do both. We have structured songs with the ability to improvise. Some songs even have improvised sections written into them. It's a blast! Anyways, rock on!
i think that Emperor is the only band that really plays note per note exactly like their albums
Agreed about live 100%. When it's a session drummer I'm fine with that because they only had a few days or weeks the learn the parts but if it's the actual drummer I'm always bummed when they play a really important part of the song completely different and the feel is way off.
It's because drummers have many ideas... It happens to me many times so you want to "apply" many stuff at the same time or you think that you can improve what you did and so on.
… the fewer times u get a brain fart … 👍👍
I agree you should master your songs if you're playing them live, but after you have it locked in you can experiment a bit
Heh, in Sleep, Matt Pyke explained in one interview that he (on Guitar) fucks around a lot and no two livesets are ever 100% the same. So while you make valid points for technical metal, it really depends on the style and vibe, even amongst metal subgenres.
Metal players have a comically high opinion of themselves, and the premise of this video is absurd. I made it through about two minutes of it. 😄
I ve been a drummer for over 50 years in many styles... metal drummers are the fastest, cleanest playing drummers there are
@@Q1776Q You’re focused on technical “perfection.” I prefer my drummers not to sound like a drum machine.
@fclefjefff4041 Yes, you are correct..... I prefer to see and perform what most people say is impossible.
I always thought of Black Metal being very similar to Jazz, I feel the entire band is playing their own version of the songs but maybe I'm wrong
I like jazz-metal.
Now what ?
Man I wanted to see you with Batushka in Serbia I can't believe the fking church stepped in and cancelled it
I'm very disappointed, too. :(
It's called getting old.lol.
Пиздец ты скоростишь, я вообще ни хрена понять не успел
That's why I stopped learning drums in my teenage years...the more instrumental options were added, the more I've become lost.😅 So I'm planning to start a career as a professional triangle player in a Metal band. All looks great...I just need a band. 😂
As far as I can tell from my experience, drummers that do not finalize their parts don't really pay attention to other parts of the ensamble. Reason being, from the drummer's perspective at the rehearsals their instument fills the whole acoustic space, while others just barely peek through that wall of sound. Try asking this kind of drummer to hum the main riff or tell what the lyrics are on the second verse, they'd most likely fail to answer. What this means is that they don't play to the song at all but just jamming to the click and in that case why bother.
Click bait and having discussion in the comments section brings him higher in the algorithm.
For drumming there are so many ways to play the same song doesn't mean they can't play it, it just means they don't repeat the song from how they first wrote or recorded it.
Just one word: Lars...
🤣
Well well well...again and again attacks against drummers. I don't want to be rude but your video prove one thing. You're a multi instrumentists not a drummer. The fact you emphazise learning by heart fills is simply because you only play what you can. And i am sorry but as much as i love your music videos, your drum level is quiete basic. And that's totally fine, you can't be a master at everything. But critisizing drummers of not playing the same fills like an album is the proof you don't considerate the instrument and yet, not respecting it.
First point. Comparing with guitars is a non sense, drums are percussions, we do not deal with notes and tuning, this a totally different approach.
Second, your example, in fact, invalidate other aspect of playing music, like: studios, lives and practices. It looks like as drummer we practice only songs that we need to play but iam sorry to say that most of the time we practice rudiments TO actually play the songs better.
And finally, it's very easy when you have your own kit/studio to record videos only. Most of drummers have multiple bands never use the same kit for rehearsal and of course for gigging.
Drum is actually the most difficult instrument to learn, because you can't practice at midnight, if you live in a flat, even an e-kit is not enough to not make noise for neighbours. When you practice drum you reach your body limit at a certain point, so you cannot practice or play anymore. So that is why we need to set in our body some kind of back up plan that we are confortable with when we playbto not fucked up the show. Guitarist do not care of that.
Ane finally 95% of guitarists are not tight during recording and lives, and of course, " It'S tHe FeEliNg".
Sorry if i am kind a harsh but always criticize the drummer like we are slaves of the instumentists kind of piss me off. We are drummers so let us play drums.
We are not robots i dont want to play note perfect every time sure if its needed but hey we all have arseholes just like opinions lol
Check out mitch mitchell with hendrix both of them never played same song note for note but they are famous right
I do play my bands tracks pretty much note for note but sometimes its good to do something creative cheers