One guy mercilessly trolled the NHL into creating a better rule book | Weird Rules
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2018
- Roger Neilson manipulated the NHL rulebook so much that he landed in the Hockey Hall of Fame. He changed the sport, not just through these three rule changes, but also by instituting offseason training as well as the idea of studying video to plan for opponents. Who’d have guessed that’d help?
Rules include…
1. You can’t put anyone in goal for a penalty shot, it must be the goaltender and they must stay in goal
2. The goalie cannot leave equipment, such as his stick or even a mound of ice, in front of the goal after he has been pulled
3. If you intentionally sub too many men onto the ice it results in a penalty shot
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Roger Neilson: “Okay everyone, strip naked and put all your clothes in the goal”.
Rob Ray put a stop to that
@@LeviathanRX Is there a rule that says we can't sacrifice a goat and leave it in front of the goal?
What about a fan?
@@SporkSlayer Sounds like something a team called the Wichita Wiccans would try
“There’s no rule against hiring Mike Tyson for fights” -Roger Neilson
I mean, still technically speaking, there's no rule that says you can't. NBC would be upset though.
"They should put under every rule: And here's why!"
Yes, they should. They really, really should. Laws too.
They actually often do for laws, at least in the U.S.
@@zach2921 Good!
So why can't you walk a moose down main street on a Sunday in some US towns?
@@loucorona2684 That's probably a question for some US towns.
@@strikerrey6016 My point is that the US doesn't put an explanation of why after their laws. Have you never heard the teem "ignorance of the law is no excuse". There are laws on the book that people have no idea of why or how they became law. Without looking into congressional records the reason may not be known to anyone the law officers included. Don't make blanket statements is all im pointing out.
Ain't no rule says a dog can't play basketball!
Full on air bud 'D I feel like this should be the official phrase
Regular Guy like airbud
Don’t the stadiums say no dogs?
I like Ice Bud.
I'm curious to know what the official ruling on this would be, if they've changed the official rules to prevent shenanigans
ahaha. what was practice like? it was a book club. they would all read a chapter from the rule book, sit in a circle, and pick holes at it.
HI-LAR-IOUS
Actually, a lot of film as he was a pioneer in video breakdowns of opponents.
Max Bell 😂
First half: book club. Read the rulebook and discover loopholes
Second half: practice exploiting those loopholes while on the ice
"hey coach! it doesnt say anywhere in here that the goalie cant leave his stick in the net!"
"brilliant"
Absolutely NO snowmen.
...but what about icemen? Ice _sculptures?_ It ain't piling up snow if it's a professionally carved ice statue that you slide onto the rink when the ref ain't looking!
(which is probably why they ended up making that final "aw, screw it" catch-all revision of "any other object"... which is then your cue to use a flamethrower to melt a 5ft by 2ft channel into the ice in front of the goal that the puck will hopefully get caught in even if hit particularly hard...)
mspenrice Beautiful reply.
...ROGER.
You didn't say anything about snow-women!!
Tell that to Marc-Andre Fleury!
Two more Roger Neilson stories, though not really relating to weird rules:
-In 1978-79 he was fired as head coach by the Toronto Maple Leafs; after outrage across the team and fanbase he was reinstated without missing a game, but the Leafs' cantankerous owner Harold Ballard's original plan was to bring him back as a "mystery coach" with a _paper bag_ on his head, that he was supposed to take off to reveal himself at some point in his first game back. Roger refused, came back as normal, but was again fired at the end of the season.
-In the 1982 playoffs he was coaching the Vancouver Canucks, a job he took over from Harry Neale who was suspended late in the season for attacking a fan in Quebec City, and who were en route to their first of 3 trips to the Stanley Cup Finals. During game 2 of the Campbell (Western) Conference Finals against Chicago, he felt his Canucks were getting the short end of the stick regarding penalties, so he put a white towel on a hockey stick and waved it in mock-surrender. He and three players who copied him were ejected and fined, but at game 3 in Vancouver _thousands_ of fans brought their own towels to wave at the game, and "Towel Power" was born. Roger even has a statue outside Rogers Arena depicting him with the skate & towel raised.
Bringing in a ~mystery coach~ with a bag on his head strikes me as much more of a pro wrestling bit than pro hockey.
Almost 20 years later Nielson, at this point dying of cancer, came into Vancouver as the assistant coach of the Ottawa Senators. Everyone knew that Nielson's cancer was terminal and this was it for him. For that game, Vancouver fans responded by bringing in the "Towel Power" in what was Nielson's last game in Vancouver.
I can't find the article mentioning this-I just remember it from a newspaper article back in 2002.
Screw Vancouver 😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎
Epic trolling, late 70s/early 80s style. Who needs the internet?
TrendingDeezNutz Vancouver stinks 😷 actually all of B.C. stinks
Pure lawful evil
why are you always here?
l3054 Marx was not lawful or evil so what's your point lol
>Marx was not evil
>inventing communism
u k brah?
@@pipoper101 what about Communism is evil to you? Its alternative involves continuous exploitation and fragmentation of the working class inevitably until an entirely fascist state envelops...
gr8 b8 m8
Someone has to be a villain so that the protagonist can evolve and improve himself.
Satan actually means adversary, and originally the story wasnt that he rebelled(angels had no free will, so how could they choose to rebel?), but that God needed an adversary to test and improve creation more specifically peoples faith, even more specifically, those who claim to he faithful and holy
No actually, no one has to be a villain a story arises from any conflict.
Always wondered if you dressed one of those guys that weigh 1000 lbs as a goalie and sort of form fitted him into the net. He wouldn’t have to move, you could even just leave him there between periods.
buddy D I've actually wondered myself
Buddy, I like the way you think.
czcams.com/video/sP8ZVWiZUMA/video.html They tried it. They got eaten up.
Man I was literally thinking the same thing a few days ago lol I got the idea when I heard some talking about goalies with big bodies (Andersen, Bishop, etc.) So I thought what about a 700lb body? Great minds think alike!
Well... you can't leave them there between periods... someone would have to move him out of the nets and move him out of the way with the nets while they resurface... Besides, no player can be on the ice surface until 2 mins left in the intermission (I think).
Reminds me of this nice spot to skate in the town I went to high school.
Initially there was no sign. Then we came and started riding skateboards, so they came outside and told us we weren’t allowed and one of us said “there’s no sign saying we can’t.” And for some reason they let us skate but a sign was posted the next day that said “no skateboarding”.
So we rode BMX bikes... then the sign said “No skateboarding or biking”.
The last time I saw the sign it said “No skateboarding, biking, rollerblading, inline skating, soap shoes, heelies, parkour, razor scooters, quad skating, or choreographed fighting.”
Note: rollerblade is a brand of inline skates in the same way Nike is a brand of gym shoes. So when “no rollerblading was added to the sign only the ones wearing those particular brand of inline skates stopped skating, but the rest continued to skate.”
Had no idea Soap Shoes were a thing til now.
Bring a bunch of unicyclists to that spot!
At least you can still rollerski there
"No choreographed fighting" Two questions: why and how
@@neonbunnies9596 we choreographed an elaborate street fight just to get it written as something on the sign.
They came out and said no fighting and we said it was a choreographed fight.
Finding loophole in rule book is basically 80% of what Formula 1 is about (And other motorsport as well)
For sure, ya - I wish they would just race... especially formula one, those guys are silly.
There was an interesting video doing the rounds on Facebook last week about the rule-bending (and, ultimately, specifically-introduced-new-rule-violating) anti-lag turbo boost system Ford employed on their Focus WRC rally cars for about half a season before it was swiftly banned... and was the reason for them making the otherwise curious decision to adopt the larger North American bumpers on a race car otherwise homologated to (smaller, thus slightly lighter, slightly more aerodynamic) European standards.
The rules include something akin to the Nascar restrictor flap (for much the same reasons - a/ to level the playing field somewhat instead of cars creeping back to the Group B days of Biggest Turbo Wins, and b/ for safety reasons... as demonstrated by Group B, anything much more than 300bhp on a typical rally track is deadly, much like how Nascars are essentially limited to about the highest speed they can realistically sustain around a banked oval without literally flying out of control on the regular), in the form of a restrictor and automatic bypass system that limits how much boost pressure any turbocharger system can provide to the engine... which as they're also limited to 2 litres capacity, and simply increasing revs wouldn't work as you need increasing amounts of boost to feed in enough air, and just increasing the size of the inlet and intake manifold wouldn't work because you both run out of space under the bonnet _and_ introduce horrendous amounts of lag, basically caps how much power any gasoline-fuelled engine of non-revolutionary design can make.
The problem Ford's engineers were originally trying to design their way around is that even without oversize pipes on the intake side of the engine, they were experiencing excessive amounts of turbo lag actually as a side effect of that restrictor system, plus a ban on the more conventional forms of anti-lag (which in any case would regularly lead to an illegally high boost level in certain situations, and either severely impact the fuel consumption, add considerable weight to the front end, or both). How then could they get the turbo to spin back up near-instantly, or at least compensate for it whilst it spooled at a normal speed, when coming back onto the throttle after braking for a sharp corner or making an upshift, without violating the rules?
Well... in the immediate seconds after releasing the throttle on approach to said corner, there's still quite a bit of excess boost in the system - not enough to violate the rules, but far more than is needed by the engine which is essentially turned off momentarily, or at least idling, and normally (in gasoline engines rather than diesels, anyway) that's immediately vented to atmosphere through the wastegate - causing the characteristic "whoosh" noise of a heavily turbocharged car at the point of changing gear or otherwise coming off the throttle - in order to prevent a catastrophic lean burn/predetonation situation that can melt pistons or even the cylinder block itself (anti lag systems are wasteful of fuel, as well as tough on brakes, because they inject an excess of it to prevent this situation). Which is clearly a rather wasteful thing to do, because time and fuel has been spent spinning the turbo up to create all that compressed air...
...and whilst the rules also ban the use of any kind of nitrous oxide or other chemical booster gas system, there's nothing about compressed air tanks... there are all manner of other uses on the car to which they could be put, after all, not least the suspension...
...so, why don't we take the feed off the wastegate and, instead of venting it to atmosphere, send it through a one-way valve down a pipe to a storage tank where it can sit quite happily for a couple of seconds until we come back on the gas, at which point it can be released through a different valve straight into the inlet manifold and immediately get to work feeding extra air into the engine even with the turbo despooled and, in an indirect fashion, helping to re-spool the turbo itself faster than would otherwise be possible? It's a blood simple bit of engineering, really. The valves heading into the tank can be completely passive and only open when there's more pressure coming from the wastegate than is already in the tank; otherwise the air will just vent as normal. Those coming out of the tank need only be fairly simple solenoids... they're either open or shut, don't need to switch more than a couple hundred times per stage if that, don't need to do so with any particular accuracy (responding within about a half second is fine) and won't ever handle more than a few bar of pressure. Compared to a fuel injector, that has to precisely meter dozens of separate squirts of 300-bar-pressurised fuel _per second,_ they're child's play. A nice side effect will be that the released air will be slightly cooler and denser than what comes off the turbo, as the act of shoving it into the tank will create some local heating that will then start to dissipate before it's released... it'll be a bit like adding an extra pint-sized intercooler.
But... we need to conceal the tank, both so our competitors don't realise what we're up to and immediately copy it, neutralising the advantage, but also so the scrutineers don't start getting suspicious that we're maybe running NOS and then end up blabbing that same secret during a misguided public inquiry. Also, even though it won't contain a particularly high pressure, it could still be dangerous if it bursts open in a collision, so it needs to go somewhere that, at least on a rally car, has a very low risk of suffering high speed impact damage.
Hey, I know - let's hide it in the rear bumper! That's pretty much just cosmetic on a car like this, as there's no realistic risk of being rear-ended. There's plenty of simple empty space under there that we can fill up.
(Later on) ... bad news, guys, in order to make the system work, we need to use a bigger tank than what'll fit under the regular bumper...
(A bit later still) ... hang on, I've just spotted a loophole in the rules. They put a limit on how much boost can be produced by the _turbocharger_ ... but _not_ any other air compressor or storage device on the vehicle, including any that might then feed into the air intake system downstream of the turbo. If we arrange things just-so, and stick a small accessory compressor pump inline with the tank filling pipe, then we can pressurise the tank a little more than the wastegate alone can manage, and effectively get a little extra pressure at the inlets than we would have had before... and even combine the two systems to bolster what's coming off the turbo, getting higher than normal effective boost for one or two short but crucial seconds out of every corner or after every gearchange. That sort of thing is a race winner, and best of all, under the current rules, _it's entirely legal._ The _turbo's_ output is still within legal limits, it's just that we get an extra half a bar of air pressure at the inlet for a quick moment here and there.
(Even later, after the race officials have worked out what's going on and legislated against such systems)... aaahhhh *bollocks.* Well, it was good whilst it lasted. It'd have probably ended up spiralling out of control anyway, with ever more powerful pumps and higher pressure tanks creating greater boost for longer, ending up with multiple fatalities after a big crash that sent a car cartwheeling end-over-end and rupturing the rear bumper tank...
Basically in racing, if it wins too much, it gets banned or heavily regulated, lol.
@@gwenynorisu6883 Wow. You just wrote an entire essay in response to a CZcams comment.
I'm not here to tease or anything. I'm just impressed.
@@gwenynorisu6883 yes, but that crash would have been *entertaining.*
Truly a legend of hockey history. He was also the first to analyze game footage and is credited with introducing the rally towel to the NHL when waved a white towel on a stick to mock surrender because felt the refs were being biased.
and the Canucks have been surrendering ever since
Didn't they reach the finals one year, since then?
They haven't surrendered to anyone... but for those that don't understand the history of his white towel manoeuvre, it must be pretty odd to see a statue of a guy waving a white flag, as is the case just outside the Canucks' stadium. As a Vancouverite, I've always found it an odd choice for a statue, understanding the simple fact that people aren't good with nuance.
Leaves? What the
Never won a cup in their history. Surrendered is the perfect word.
“There are not one, BUT THREE rules at least, changed because of his tomfoolery” Tomfoolery is an amazing word
That is not cheating or playing dirty. He was playing by the rules. Exploiting a loophole is still playing by the rules. He was apparently the only one smart enough to know the rules.
If you read any stories about NHL management through to the 1990s (both league and individual teams), you'll know how true your last sentence is.
The most canadian Munchkin of all time
I don't think anyone said he was cheating. Though one might argue that he did violate the spirit of fair competition by exploiting these loopholes. Of course, you could also say that using a strategy that doesn't break the rules that the other team is not expecting would be no different than any other well-planned strategy designed to best your opponent. Still, I can't help thinking "Oh come on!" due to the seemingly cheap nature of these strategies.
People like you are the very reason we have to go through all this bullshit in every game. You can't just play the damn game as obviously intended because you lack skill. It's the same as people who exploit unintentional infinite combos in fighting games. I really despise your ilk...
7F0X7 but here thing it does take skill and knowledge do what he did and find these loopholes. And sports to me is using your skill set to do whatever is within the rules to win.
Fighting games are different for the simple fact that if the dev game a character a no skill infinite combo that’s the devs fault and it’s a broken game so the devs need to fix and any play not a tournament exploiting it doesn’t care about fun.
A example of a soccer loophole would be in 2002 Sheffield United vs West Brom. United were losing 3-0 had used all their substitutes and were reduced to 8 men due to 3 red cards. With a 3 man deficit for the final 15 minutes a severe beating was highly likely which would adversely affect their goal difference (a tie breaker in English Football). Subsequently 2 players left the field "injured" and with no replacements allowed the referee had no option to abandon the game as the minimum number of players allowed is 7.
Soccer players exploiting the game by faking an injury? What is the witchcraft ?
The fix for that is that the team that cannot field the correct number of players or coach forfeits the match.
hengineer That's not the fix for that situation. They were losing 3-0 and they still lost due to forfeit. They just wanted to not let the score reach 7-0 or 8-0 to reduce goal differential as they would lose rank on points table.
Can't believe Barbados vs. Grenada in the 1994 Caribbean cup hasn't been done yet... its my single favourite sporting odyssey of all time!
In short...
- Overtime was sudden death/golden goal for this tourney but special rule was the golden goal counted double
- Barbados needed to beat Grenada by two goals to move on to the next round, otherwise Grenada would
- Barbados was ahead by only one nearing the end of regulation time... meaning they would get knocked out
- Near the end they score on themselves intentionally, to even the game and send it to overtime
- Grenada catches on, they realize that if they score on either goal, they move on! They either win or they lose by one, both acceptable
- So now Barbados has to defend BOTH nets until regulation runs out and Grenada has to play offense both ways... hilarity ensues
And it actually worked for Barbados. They scored in overtime and moved on.
Pandamonium
Bro I thought you were just a soccer fan talking about hockey in soccer terms then I figured out you were talking about soccer and tl;dr'd it.
This comment worked! Except in their vid they butchered the pronunciation of a country that their country invaded.
That's friggin' NUTS
As a kid I loved Roger Neilson because he had such character. I caught him once at an exhibition game and asked him for an autograph. He laughed and said “sure hold my coffee would you”, and at 11 years I was delighted. He gave the autograph and then bought me a hot chocolate from the machine in the rink.
He probably had some idea how much that meant to me at that age .....
I love to imagine everytime Roger found a loophole I can see an old hockey official yelling "ROGER!" while shaking his hand
Some crusty old NHL rulemaker: HA...NO ONE WILL EVER FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET AROUND THIS RULE
Roger Nielson: Hold my beer
Same rulemaker: GDI ROGER!
According to Bob Miller’s Autobiography about his time on the Kings, that rule about the goalie stick across the empty net was actually the idea of Roger’s wife.
So a wife of a coach is credited with a rule in the rule book.
Matt Larson - Roger was never married, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been someone else's wife.
Also. Thanks for making sure that I never will waste my time reading Bob Miller's autobiography.
Why not pull a player for an extra goalie??
maybe we can threaten the referees family....
This thread has got some ideas, keep em comin
How about the crowd throws pucks if there's an open net
I read somewhere (I'm not sure of the book, but it had weird quirky hockey stories) that in the old days of hockey (1900's), a coach tried to start the game with 2 goalies with one less skater. It failed completely, because the goalies kept bumping into each other, and playing with a man down permanently with goalies not being able to make saves goes very badly.
Another idea for a hockey-based video: You could talk about the Brodeur rule, implemented first in the NHL and AHL solely because the greatest goalie of all time was too good at handling the puck.
Have another donut was Jim Schoenfeld, not Roger Nielson.
pjabrony Noted. Thanks.
we actually get into that as part of this Avery-Brodeur Beef History! czcams.com/video/erKjBnAtIVY/video.html
Agree
SB Nation Awesome! Just rewatched that vid. Sometimes it’s hard to remember what’s been covered with all the great content you guys put out.
Marc-Andre Fleury tried the pile of snow in front of an empty net. He got caught.
3:02 this would be a great idea for a movie. "The hero saves the day by being the villain"
Actually there are plenty of fictional villains out there whose motives boil down to "The forces of good are too incompetent/lazy, so I'll create a threat to force them to shape up before a bigger danger comes along."
Erick: Not as many of those that actually do save the day in the end tho.
Looking at you, Ultron
Code Geass
Going back in time before 9/11 and staging a fake terrorist attack, getting yourself caught and going to jail being hated, but also increasing security measures to prevent 9/11 in doing so.
Is it weird that I really respect this Roger Neilson guy now?
And also thanks to Roger Neilson, there's an NHL replay room in Toronto.
I'm from Peterborough, Ontario and when he passed away, we now have Roger Neilson way. What a guy!
Me too!
And do people make a point of exploiting loopholes in the traffic laws there? After all, it's the Roger Neilson way...
My dad and I met Roger through Hockey Ministries International. We had been attending their hockey camps in the summer since July of 1998 and had got to know quite a few people in that organization, including Don Liesemer, president of HMI. Flash forward to the dark times after September 11th, 2001, many flights were of course cancelled or delayed. Roger was taking cancer treatments at the time in Philadelphia and couldn’t get a flight back to Ottawa at the time. Don called up my dad knowing that he was in the area asking him a favour. Roger needed a way back home and he was wondering if my dad could drive him back to Canada to get his needed rest after his treatment. My dad didn’t hesitate and made his 1997 extended cab Ford Aerostar as comfortable as it could be. They didn’t talk too much on that 8 hour ride north as Roger was needing rest and slept most of the way. He was very appreciative and kept in touch over the phone and we went to visit him when he came to town for games in the future. He even offered to sponsor half of my tuition to attend a school in Saskatchewan to play hockey! That’s how I ended up going to school in Saskatchewan and subsequently meeting my wife in high school, making a life for myself up here. Roger got progressively worse in health and while the sponsorship promise fell through near the end of his life it was understandable. His influence and meeting led to many great things for me and my dad (I made the short list for the final tryouts for the Lindsay Muskies at 15 years old, my dad became an off-ice official for the Philadelphia Phantoms) and we were grateful for his friendship. He was a great person and of course an influential coach in the hockey community. He had some terrific stories to share! I still have my Christian Athlete Hockey jersey that he signed and wanted to give to me from way back when. What a fantastic person!
Roger was a master of thinking outside the box. He used to manage a kids baseball team back before he was in the NHL. He had his guys do the hidden ball trick with a potato once. Roger was a brilliant man and really well liked in the game.
He invented video study, brought off season regimens to his teams (all teams have it now) and was always looking for an edge.
I think this is my favorite of the Weird Rules videos, *the lengths this guy went to is great and pretty funny*
One rule I haven't seen discussed here is when the NHL was discussing the 3 on 3 overtime they brought in Neilson to play devil's advocate. He said that he would just pull the goalie and try to win since he would be getting a point anyways. So they put in the rule that if a team pulls the goalie in OT and they get scored on, they would forfeit their OT point.
You can talk about Taro Tsujimoto or how the Sabres drafted an imaginary player.
Great idea. It's a pretty funny story. The timing is also right as we are just approaching the NHL draft next month.
That was an interesting draft in 1974 I think it was. The draft was kept rather low key to prevent teams from the rival league World Hockey Association (WHA) from taking players. Sabres GM George "Punch" Imlach was getting impatient with the amount of time the picks were taking to be made. So, he made up the name of a Japanese player that wasn't real. The pick was soon voided.
Yeah, thats a classic.
NFL weird rule idea: On 11/27/2016, with the Ravens leading by 7 and facing a deep 4th down in the dying seconds against Cincinnati, John Harbaugh told all of his players to hold one of the Bengals defenders. P Sam Koch waited for the time to run out and backed out of the end zone for a safety. Because a game COULD end on an offensive penalty, the game ended and the Ravens won. I believe the rules have been changed since.
Benjamin Kassel That has happened many times and there is not (and probably never will be) a rule against it
Itsscottybruh There's a proposed rule change for the 2018 season that will reset the game clock and impose a 15 yard penalty for intentional fouls to burn time on the offense.
I have seen this multiple times and it is genius.
There are two different things here:
1) 4th down plays near the end of the game where the margin is such that awarding 2 points to the trailing team doesn't change what the opponent needs to do to win (most common with a 6 point margin) the leading team will line up in a punt formation but, instead of punting, retreat to their own end zone and deliberately score a safety for the opponents.
2) As with #1, but the leading team *also* intentionally fouls the other team to maximize the amount of time removed from the clock.
#1 is a legitimate, though rare, part of the game. #2, in the other hand, is a rules exploit and has only happened in the game previously cited. I'm glad to hear that a formal rule change is under consideration, but I don't think one is truly required -- this should be handled as a "Grossly unfair act", with the trailing team geting two points (for the safety) and their choice of additional penalty from the following list:
1) The defense gets the ball, 1st and 10, either at the previous line of scrimmage or the offence's 20 yard line, whichever they prefer. If the game clock has expired, they get a single untimed down, as if a defensive penalty occurred at the end of a half. Note that there is no free kick out this scenario, but the 2 points for the safety are still awarded.
2) 60 seconds is added to the game clock and a 15 yard penalty is enforced on the free kick.
The choice of penalty is important -- if you have timeouts remaining, 60 seconds + the ball on the 50 (likely result of a free kick) is better, but with no timeouts getting a single down in immediate scoring position is arguably better.
Implemented for 2017 season - Rule 12, Section 3, Article 3:
INTENTIONAL FOULS TO MANIPULATE GAME CLOCK. A team may not commit multiple fouls during the
same down in an attempt to manipulate the game clock.
Penalty: For multiple fouls to run off time from the game clock: Loss of 15 yards, and the game clock will be reset to where it was at the snap. After the penalty is enforced, the game clock will start on the next snap.
So it's already been a thing for a whole season.
Absolute madman. He also waved a towel at the end of his stick to surrender to the refs lol
Neilson was the first coach in the NHL to use video playback to scout future opponents. He also introduced off-season training. Two things we think of as a given today, but people thought he was nuts back then.
Speaking of weird rules -- the origin story for the Butterfly swimming events is odd. going by memory alone...
Originally there were only two competitive swimming strokes: breaststroke and backstroke. Then the U.S. Native Americans introduced the "American Crawl". Note that this stroke is almost universally and incorrectly called "freestyle", because American Crawl is the most efficient stroke, and if you can use any stroke you want (which is what freestyle means) then why use anything else?
The new American Crawl was largely dismissed by the "European Elite" as a heathen / savage stroke. Sure it worked, but *gentlemen* used the elegant breaststroke. Someone who wanted to win, however, took a look at how the breaststroke was defined in the rule book of the time and realized that the only requirement was that the arms and legs needed to be symmetrical at all times, and realized that getting the arms *out* of the water for the return stroke dramatically improved efficiency and that a dolphin kick was much more effective than a frog kick. He won at least some races before the rules defining the breaststroke were updated, but eventually butterfly got its own set of events.
As a side note: as mentioned, "anything goes" is the rule for the freestyle events. A swimmer will only be disqualified if they pull themselves along the line rope or push off the bottom of the pool. If, however, someone invented a *new* stroke that was faster than the American Crawl then an odd situation would arise. It would be perfectly legal to use this stroke in the freestyle events (and this is almost certainly how it would be introduced), but this would lead to the end of the American Crawl as a competitive swimming stroke. The logical solution would be to create a new set of events called "American Crawl" and let the new stroke take over the "freestyle" label, but... Almost certainly the result would be to create a new set of events for the *new* stroke and then *change the rules of the freestyle events* to either prohibit the new stroke ( "Anything goes *except*...) or simply mandate the use of the American Crawl.
Not only that - during that early period, butterfly was swum with a breaststroke kick, because the IOC's rules allowed the butterfly stroke but not the dolphin kick for breaststroke events.
Thanks I learned something
The Wikipedia article on the front crawl is really interesting - the variant known as the American Crawl was actually the *last* developed version of the stroke.
As someone who was so blessed to have met Roger several times during his tenure as coach to his beloved Leafs, I can tell you, Roger's life revolved only around hockey, he was an innovator & let no man have a pass for free. During practices, he meant business. He was an extremly hard worker, coming to work even when he was so ill. Even with all of that, his players loved him. It was Darryl, Tiger & Lanny ( I believe) who went to bat for Rog when Harrold fired him & had him rightfully reinstated. On a personal level, Roger was a very sweet, humble, gentle soul..I don't know anyone who had an unkind word to say about him. Roger also recieved the Order of Canada for his advances in the world of Hockey.. he was a great guy, someone we lost far too soon & someone I miss very much. 🏒🥅🇨🇦
That guy who brought about the shot clock was Dean Smith and the 4 corners.
Ironically, he was known for being the first coach to use video to analyze players and game situations.
How is that ironic?
Every so often I come back and watch this video again because it amuses me to no end!
Binging this series has reminded me of three curious loopholes in various historical tournament chess rules sets that were all as far as I understand it closed in response to them being abused for chess puzzles, namely promotion to a king, promotion to a piece of your opponent's colour, and vertical castling with a newly promoted rook.
Not a weird rule but it should also be noted that Neilson also inadvertently brought the rally towel to the NHL.
I met the man that was the reason for the 5 second holding the basketball rule he held the ball for and entire last quarter he is from Indiana and is in his 90s and still plays pick-up games on the weekend
Roger Neilson is known in Vancouver for being the guy who began towel waving in hockey. Game 2 of the WCF against Chicago, he waved a white towel on a stick, and thus began towels in NHL ice hockey. I own one of those original towels they gave out in game 3 back in Vancouver, my grandmother preserved it and gave it to me. I consider it a great piece of sports history.
Love this episode. Im from Peterborough Ontario and we have a public school and road named after Roger. Woulda loved to watch him coach back in the day just to see what crazy stuff he would think of next.
You should do Pop Warner and the Carlisle Indian Industrial School. Half the classic rules in football were written to stop the Native American team and their clever coach from beating rich white kids at football.
Stuff You Missed in History Class did a great podcast episode on that.
Jim Thorpe, greatest athlete!
It should be pointed out that poor Indian kids could play football but poor white kids weren't allowed to. All the white kids were rich.
I know this because Sam told me so.
Except for the time that Harvard outsmarted them. Pop Warner and Carlisle showed up in Cambridge with football designs sewed into their uniforms, and smugly said there was no rule prohibiting that (there is now). So the Harvard coach acquiesced, and then signaled to his equipment guy to bring out the footballs...which were crimson-colored. No rules against that, either.
F.O.
"Roger, you cannot make the goalkeeper leave their stuff in the way, thats cheating."
Just wanted to add that Rogers Neilson is canonical in the Mario Kart Universe. There is a race called Vancouver Velocity and part of it takes place in and around the Canucks' arena. And you can actually see the statue of him that they erected just outside the building, holding a hockey stick high with a white towel at the end
This is so hilarious:D Where I am from, Peterborough Ontario, we have memorial statues and public schools named after him. I’ve never heard any of these stories😀 Totally have some new respect for this guy!
One of the better episodes of weird rules
I found a loophole for the pulled goalie stick rule. Get one or your players to break his stick, and put it in front of the net. He can get another stick and the goal is blocked!
Nah, if the puck hits the stick, it counts as a goal.
Even if you put it like 5 feet in front of the net?
Xetttt in hockey you legally have to drop the stick as soon as it is broken. If you intentionally break it in front of the net and drop it there, then you played by the rules.
Super interesting video and presented amazingly well! Def watching more of this :D
I had all these talks when I started playing hockey this is amazing.
I haven't seen you do motorsports, but I think you need a video (or possibly an entire season) on Smokey Yunick.
The Sean Avery rule! Can't wave your stick in front of the goalie to provide a screen...Because Brodeur didn't like it & Avery was a well known ass
We actually covered this in our Avery/Brodeur ep of Beef History! Check it out: czcams.com/video/erKjBnAtIVY/video.html
He reminds me of Bill Bellichick. Multiple rule changes have been made because of Bill’s shenanigans. The odd formation he used against the Ravens and taking multiple delay of game penalties to run out the clock are 2 I can think of off the top of my head.
This was awesome. Thanks for posting.
Leaving a stick in front of the net is still exploitable. If your stick breaks, you have to drop it, or you will get a penalty. If the goalie intentionally breaks his stick in front of the net and drops it, then the ref can't award that automatic goal, because the goalie is still technically playing by the rules.
Actually, not quite. The goalie IS allowed to play with a broken stick until the next whistle -- so the goalie dropping a broken stick in the goal mouth while skating off the ice would still violate the rule. (Of course, there could be a case where, say, a piece of the blade is left behind, but I'd assume that the refs would go ahead and award the goal anyway if it affected an empty-net try.)
Pretty sure intentionally breaking your stick would get you an unsportsmanlike, let alone just to leave it on the ice.
Now this is a guy we could look up to!
Roger Neilson also has his name attached to a palliative care unit at Ottawa's children's hospital. The Ottawa Senators joined with CHEO in 2003 following Roger's passing from cancer to help offer a place where families can stay together in an unimaginably difficult time. Rogers's tenacious spirit lives on in Ottawa. Rogers's House is invaluable to those who need it. Thanks Rodger!!
2020, still my favorite episode in this series
were these NHL rule changes? Neilson was the coach of the Petes when he pulled the "too many men on the ice" trick and the "defenceman in the net for penalty shots" trick, so clearly they would have entered into the OHL rulebook, but did they get kicked up into the NHL?
67 days since the last Chart Party 😡😡
Dust just imagine if you’re a Pretty Good fan, too. :(
Looks like someone didn’t hear about dorktown
Elijah L heard about it. Saw it. Like it. It’s still different and not chart party or pretty good.
It’s called dork town now
Chart Party and Pretty good video are generally 10-30 minutes long. These videos, along with 1st and Unbreakable Records, are usually 3-5 minutes long. Longer videos take time to make. Quality over quantity. 🙂
i love this weird rules series! will you be doing one on the martin brodeur rule in the nhl?
Whoa.. this channel is amazing. The interview style is sooo great for presenting fun facts. Way better than the animated crap in all those "top 10" videos. Kudos, sub'd.
back in school I was _that kid_ who always found really outlandish exploits in the game rules~ but the problem was that, well, the teachers never understood my the exploits when I explained them :/
I remember, we once played a game with hundreds of kids, where every group of 20 had a base on a big field (the port) where they had a supply of the same item. The goal was to accuire at least one item of each team. in the middle of the field was a neutral trading hub, and you could only leave your habour with your designate flag and "boat". This boat needed at least 4 crewmembers +1 captain that was not allowed to touch the ground and a frame where those people could stand inside. We had a lot of timber and rope that we could get to build our boats, which took quite a bit if time...
well, exept for us. We thought "well, noone said the frame needed to be out of wood, so we just took the rope and made it into a ring with us inside (with the captain getting a piggyback ride).
cringe
Why didn't you abide by Noone's rule?
@@wombataldebaran9686 Before you even mentioned the piggyback ride I thought that was how the game you were describing was meant to be played, lol. I guess we think the same ;)
@@wombataldebaran9686 Was the final score Q to 12?
Have never cared a fig for hockey my entire life... I watched this entire thing.
Well done; informative and interesting!
Now, off to seem like a genius to all of my Canadian friends! XD
You should give hockey a chance and enjoy what is considered the fastest and most exciting team sport on the planet, bud :)
- From a Canadian eh
Yes look up some top 10 playoff highlights. The athleticism and speed is unmatched. The dangles dekes wrap arounds and shots passes across the ice to another guy already wound up slapshot[ONE TIMER] firing 110+ mph. Ppl defending fuking go down cover their face and block these shots Fastest game on earth. And they fight when they get hit dirty. If they dont keep their eyes up they finna get laid out badly. Its intense sport. But its evolving there is definitely alot less snapshots nowadays and more wrist shot and less enforcers but the battle of Alberta cslgary vs edmonton 2020 recently had both full teams brawling the refs lost all control and even a goalies came out and fought at center ice fight LOL
I rewatch this video periodically because it is that good.
Neat! would have never known about these funny stories and changes to the game
You could do one about the rule implemented due to a goalie flipping over the net durring a 2 on 0 to face a penalty shot instead of 2 people at once.
This Roger guy sounds like the Walpole of Hockey
I wonder who...it was Neilson. Neilson did it.
Why let a little snowman in the goal crease get in the way of a good crusade?
Everyone else makes NFL references, Spike makes a literary one instead. Way to stay in character :-)
He was also a really good coach in general, and also was one of the first people to use video as a coaching tool. We think of video as a ubiquitous thing in sports today, but 35 years ago, it was a real innovation.
Well that one soccer rule most of us learned yesterday... If a player refuses to be substituted, the play just goes on. He absolutely has a right to resist a substitution.
Me and my friend exploited the game of capture the flag. (The version of capture the flag that we played allowed you to pull someones belt to get them out as long as you are on your side of the center line, so you can get them out by grabbing their belt from your side even though they are on their side) we developed a strategy where you would get out of jail by getting freed by another player on your team and on the way back grab the belt of someone camping by the center line, then with the belt in our hand we would jump onto our side of the line, land, and pull the belt off.
The teacher banned the tactic ):
Reminds me of a thing we did at our school where people would challenge on the middle line, Each extending a hand and trying to pull the other guy over the line.
Also getting freed from jail and not going immediately, instead waiting behind the lines as a mass rush to go after the flag when a pus occurs
I miss Johns "Pretty good"
Ryan & Seth are by far the best of this channel. Especially together
It does actually sound complementary to me that a great coach would also be someone who knows how to exploit rules. Good coaches find every way they can to help them win, and finding loopholes in rules is certainly one of them. Many of the better coaches aren't afraid to break norms, even if maybe their exploitative nature seems "unsportsmanlike", well a win's a win. These traits also just translate in instilling their coaching in their players. Finding unique ways to more easily get through to their players to player smarter and/or harder, and similarly find ways to stay one step ahead of other coaches.
To use a football example, Bill Belichick has been a defensive mastermind during his long and storied tenure in the NFL, and we have seen in recent years his deep understanding of the rules, too, and how to exploit them (such as the Jets game where he continuously wasted time using penalties to bleed out tons of clock in a winning game). Meanwhile, last year's Cowboys' defense was awful, and a significant reason for that was the apparently needless complexity that caused many of the players to be constantly out of position; they hardly had time to figure out where they were supposed to be any given play, let alone have the mental real estate available to think about what they could get away with on a minute level.
0:27 gotem
Roger Neilson is the Chaotic Good of hockey
He's also the coach that brought in the waving of white towels at home game. In a playoff game in 1982, in Chicago, after the Canucks (who he coached at the time) were called on what he considered another bogus penalty, it placed a white towel on a hockey stick and waved it high in the air in protest. When the Canucks returned to Vancouver, the team gave white towels to the 16000 fans at Pacific Coliseum, and the white towel waving was born,.
Not only is this video hilarious, but the comments are ultra-hilarious. Well done.
Marc-Andre Fleury tried to stealthily build a snow wall in his last game!!
He's my hero
This could've been a good video without the awkward forced conversation of it. Just have a narrator and your chalk style drawings.
Roger Neilson was an innovator, the 3 rules he was part of was a big part of his legacy but it was deeper than that. He was known as Captain Video because he began the NHL practice of video recording practices and games and having study sessions with the teams.
Now in the NHL video is such an integral part of the game that they have iPads on the bench where players will come off the ice and grab the tablet to review their play and the linemates will discuss what happened and what to do next time.
All thanks to Roger Neilson. There's also another rule they didn't mention that changed thanks to him. NHL rules at the time stated that if you swapped your goalie for your backup, you got a few warmup shots for the new goalie. Rather than use his timeout, Neilson would simply swap his goalie, get a few warmup shots and do it again later in the game.
NHL got rid of the warmup shots but you can still swap your goalie a lot.
This is the best one of these yet.
this video had the 2 guys talking, waaaay too much, i wanted a video about some guy trolling the nhl... not you 2 yacking away...
Nah this was interesting, man. They covered all the ways he trolled the NHL. What else could they do?
Hipster phags rewining averyseen
Brackus2
The great thing about youtube is no one is stopping you from creating the exact video you want to watch.
tripsaplenty people who tend to complain also tend to be lazy
This was me with Yugioh
first ever good episode of this series. congrats Ryan
Watching these 2 discuss hockey is pretty funny
This format is just so wack and not in a good way. Do we have to have a conversation where one friend is educating another? The fly on the wall thing with randomly breaking the fourth wall just doesn't work. Good idea, bad execution
Luke Mendelsohn This seems like a “you” problem
#SAD
Luke627 yeah? You like this?
+Luke Mendelsohn yup
Luke Mendelsohn no it’s good.
This might seem weird, but I actually have a lot of respect for that guy mostly just for that. Just the fact that some guy actually sat around and was clever / cut throat enough to find every loophole he could, cracks me up every time.
Man i wish i could erase my memory of this vid just so I could rewatch and feel the same sense of awe
I don't even watch sports but I like these videos. Funny stuff people do to win.
I think that there was an NFL coach (maybe Buddy Ryan) who put extra defensive players on the field (something like 15 of 16 total) at the end of games because he could burn lots of time off the clock with the extra players and the trade-off was only one accepted too-many-men-on-the-field penalty.
My junior basketball coach made up a pick up game rule where the team had to pass once to every teammate before scoring, so we just started to defend the worst player with five players. We didn’t use that rule since.
My great cousin Bill Durnan, Hall of Fame, Montreal Canadians Goalie, was the reason the NHL they implemented the Durnan Rule, which stated that goalies could not be the captain of the team. He would go and complain to the ref's between whistles, and it gave his team a longer break. Luongo was the first goalie to become captain of a team YEARS later. Bill also had a very wild career. 6 Vezina's, 2 Cups in 7 years of playing. He quit because he didnt like the travel. HA.
You should look up Punch Imlach if you are interested in a person redesigning the game. He was the one who invented pulling the goalie in the last minute. He also had his team bench in his arena have two doors to more easily allow teams to change players on the fly, but he did not do it for the visitors bench. Until then there was only one door per bench. Interestingly, both coached in Toronto, the epicenter of hockey even if not the Stanley Cup.
Roger Neilson also was the first coach to use game tape lol.
While these are the rules he specifically helped change, he also had so many other things that this doesnt go into. Like his time as a Leafs coach when he was fired, then re-hired immediately because of fan backlash, or of course the most memorable, bringing Towel Power to the Canucks in the 1982 Campbell Conference finals. Then theres the fact he is responsible for coaches studying game films between games.
Also, 1 of the nicest people you would have met too.
Those are the type of people who think outside the box and invent wacky or creative strategies that fans love them for
This was cool thank you for it