What Makes A Man? A Study of Joel in The Last of Us Part 2 [cinematic discussion]
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- čas přidán 8. 08. 2020
- There is so much to discuss when it comes to The Last of Us Part 2. So many characters and stories, so many different themes- it's a lot. Naughty Dog did such an amazing job on all fronts, and I thought I'd make my first video about the game a discussion on my favorite character- Joel.
There's a lot that can be learned from him, and I hope this video at least scratches the surface of who his character is. Like I said in the video, the traits discussed can be had by women as well, but I just wanted to discuss them in terms of men since we're looking at them through the framework of Joel.
More videos on TLOU and other games coming soon.
Thanks for watching.
Tags:
#TheLastofUsPart2 #TheLastofUsPartII
The Last of Us Part 2
Joel Ellie Dina Jesse Tommy Maria Abby Owen Mel Nora Manny
Cinematic Edit Montage Store Overview Review Soundtrack - Hry
Over the last month this video has gotten a lot of attention. i just want to say thank you so much to everyone for the kind words, and i'm very thankful for the impact it's had. i'll have more coming soon 🙏
Also, I finally went and found the names of all the music I used -
Union - Tolo
First Flight - The Field Tapes
To Wake Up - Benjamin Gustafsson
Butterfiles Piano Sonata - Tony Anderson
Well deserved attention for sure! I can tell you put a lot heart into this. Seriously can’t wait for what comes next.
For so long i just hated neil druckman for killing of joel but boy ow boy what was I stupid you have given me such a nice perspective of joel and the whole game and how neil created this just thank you
@@Skips04 wow, that's pretty cool. i'm really glad you liked the video 🙏
@@philn0va what are you working on next?
@@butterboi5536 toying with a few different ideas, but possibly talking about uncharted 4 next
He wasn't a bad man
He wasn't a good man
But he did his best
He was just a man no better than anyone else.
Like the other person said, nobody in the apocalypse is good, if you survived for more than 20 years then you would have had to kill at least 1 person, it doesn't mean your bad just because you kill in defense or do what you do to survive, it's just different rules in a different world.
"We are shitty people Joel"
@@KAINSAMA "We are survivors!"
I 100% understand what you're saying but I do believe he was a good man. If he wasn't - he would've ;left Ellie on her own. Ellie is what made Joel a good man and ultimately showed us, the players, that's who he is at his core. A father.
Its also so sad to remember that on the exact day Joel meets his fate, Ellie was already planning on a special occasion to watch a movie with Joel. A movie he said he loved. Man...
OH YEAH! Welp... *TIME TO CRY AGAIN! TWT*
Damn damn damn 😭😭😭😭 RIP JOEL! The greatest father figure in games!
@@lengendaryblackmgmt438 Joel was the probably best video game character ever.
@@anessamer yep it’s a good up between him and lee
@@isayweirdshityk nah between him and arthur morgan
One detail I’ve heard no one talk about is Joel’s blue shirt during the birthday flashback. A shirt we only see him wear in the prologue of the first game, it’s the shirt he wore with Sarah. A shirt he wears because at the museum he loves Ellie as much as he loved Sarah.
i never noticed that. nice catch
It could be used to symbolize his moral alignment. From what I understand green is a neutral color and often used to signify moral flexibility. So it could be that the blue shirt was used to signify Joel is no longer the morally ambiguous smuggler he was.
It ain't the same shirt, this one has a chest pocket, the prologue's does not
Something I noticed during Joel and Ellie’s last conversation is Joel’s body language. The whole time Ellie is speaking hes hunched over, unsure of himself and what he’s going to say. However, when he starts saying how he would do it all over again if the lord gave him another chance, he stands straight up and speaks in a confident tone. Joel never regretted saving Ellie for a split second. Even with the burden it caused him afterwards.
That's the certitude of pure love right there for ya.
I think him telling Ellie that played into her decision in wanting to try and forgive him in the end. Because he was being completely honest with her in that moment.
Joel wis 96% why I like the last of us. When he died, I cried the rest of the game.
best comment ever
@@alexgoshorn3287 ....Which is why there'll probably be many a TV being switched off shortly into the second series. If GOT caused a stir I dread to think what LTOU2 will do.
Like Glenn said “I’d rather have you pissed off at me and Alive, then liking me and dead”
I feel that. At least you still have them and there is hope for change and fixing things
He was the real character in series
Not when the whole world is at stake and she's literally the only known cure
@@niftyskates85 Would you please play last of us 1?
@@ulfor24 i did
The way he chose to say "I saved her" instead of "I killed them"...
Because he didn't killed for revenge or something like Ellie and Abby he did it for love something the second game lacks
@@smoker5989 But even in the first last of us , his motivations was based of off revenge.
He saved Ellie because he loved her but also because in a way it was his revenge.
In his mind , the world took his daughter so why should he have to suffer again even if it meant a cure.
Both games have revenge , the first one is lined with it and the second one is based on it.
@@HottestBrownMan Except revenge was never in his mind. He saved her and killed whoever tried to stop him. Thats survival, not vengence
@@TBone4Breakfast That wasn't his main motive however did contribute to him saving Ellie.
The world already took one daughter , so in a sense he got his revenge by saving Ellie.
He saved her out of love , selfishness and revenge.
Sarah's death is a massive reason for Joel saving Ellie , if Joel never had a kid , he probably wouldn't have said Ellie.
@@HottestBrownMan what? he only thought about saving Ellie because he loved her as his own daugther. and not because he wanted to screw humanity out of pure revenge... he didn't care about the humanity becasue they betrayed him so he couldn't care less. he did not give a single shit about the world or revenge. Ellie was the only thing in his mind when he saved her.
The shot of Ellie smelling Joel’s jacket always gets me, brings me back when I was 12 and I used to smell my grandpa’s clothes after his death.
me too. smelling my nan’s clothes after she passed was one of the most painful growing up experiences i had last year.
Same smelling my father's clothes 🙁
@@itsmeshaun7358sorry for your loss my condolences 💐 🙏❤️🕊️
@@conman8982 sorry for your loss my condolences 💐 🙏❤️🕊️
sorry for your loss my condolences 💐 🙏❤️🕊️
Fuck me. It still amazes me to think that a game can make me feel such strong emotions for people that don’t even exist.
The power of extremely good writing.
Agreed
The reason I’m binge watching all the TLOU takes and reviews on the game I just finished it 2 days ago and I’m still trying to process everything. Can’t wait for TLOU 3 if there’s even going to be a 3…
@@angelinaoliver5587I finished it a year ago and im still crying 😂😂😂
@@user-wj4vz6yk6rfinished first almost 10 years ago 3 times and fixing to finish second and also watching show and hoping tlou3 will come out since it’s in development
When Joel almost cried when Ellie said she would like to try almost makes me cry everytime
Almost? I fully burst into tears
It’s just so sad because he just didn’t want the person he cares about the most in this world to leave him, he was being the best father he could
If you look at his left eye after Ellie walks away, you can see the tears forming, and his facial expression shows just how hard it is for him to hold them back.
It sure made ME crie
Well. That didn't suck.
I'm gonna go cry now.
And what a Damn good cry that was. 💙
Ok
i'm already crying😭
"I'll take what I can get"
©Joel Miller
🥺
For me personally Joel is the most admirable type of man that I wish I had in my life. He didn't live for himself, but for Ellie, he loved her more than anything in his life. He's the father figure I looked up to, because my father didn't give a shit about me growing up and I just didn't talk to people. If Ellie was the one who was murdered, Abigail wouldn't see another sunrise.
I may be really wrong here but maybe he is giving you some tough love to prepare you for the future. I am saying this because one there is a friend of mine who really hated his father but when he grew up and his father passed away, he longed for his father to be there and almost every skill he used in this modern world were passed on by his father.
@TheLee thanks for understanding
@@siddharthsagar1506 tough love as a kid is very different from tough love as teenager.
Joel sacrificed his soul at the end of the day, and like he said, he'd do it all over again. Doesnt make him good or even right, but he found his reason to live and he wasnt going to let her go no matter what.. even if the world depended on it. He's a horrible and brutal man, but I will not judge him, he's human, and did what he thought was best.
@@siddharthsagar1506
Tough love is also known as i try my best but i’m pretty bad at it. A child needs support, not stress or whatever ‘’tough love ‘’ is.
"If I ever were to lose you" -Joel
"I'd surely lose myself" - Ellie
I'm not crying you are!!
Pearl Jam song from 2013 the year the infection took hold the year Sara died…..
“Why don’t you just say whatever speech you got rehearsed, and get this over with”
-Joel Miller, Badass till the end.
"You don't get to rush this...."
He knew he couldn't possibly guessed who Abby was trying to avenge
@@serizaizumi6779 😂😂😂😐😑😐
That moments not about being bad ass. Joel is undoubtedly one. That moment illustrates the point of being a man, a real man. That is accepting the choices you make, being honest of those choices, and not making excuses for them. Joel saved Ellie, a choice that makes sense to anyone who can see themselves in his shoes. But it was undoubtedly also a harmful act, a terrible act in the name of love. As much as Joel explains why he did what he did, as much as he knows that for him it was right, hes not excusing what he did.
@@lrsb1678 yeah, this; he knew it would come one day; he just didn’t know when. Kinda a “live by the sword” mindset.
Now i want a DLC with heartwarming events during the last 4 years in jackson
Agreed. Naughty dog are at their best when they’re writing Joel and Ellie, it’s brilliant character writing really.
Yes. I wouldn’t mind doing patrols or feeding the horse or shit as them with cute banters and moments
Agree... that would be perfect!
a DLC divided in 2 parts: before and after Joel told her the truth. We could play with both Ellie and Joel...
@@travesdesign Perfect idea
"Jesus Chris Joel, what did you do ?"
"I saved her"
You can see in his eyes that he doesn't regret anything and he accepted what he choose
You know, I always wonder how crazy a Last Of Us 2 would be if it was Ellie that died and Joel lived. How dark, brutal, merciless it would be. If Ellie died saving or protecting Joel, leaving him to feel the same way when sara died, having failed to protect his daughter twice now. How sadistic he would be, full of rage, no remorse, compassion, empathy, nothing but rage, hatred, vengeance. Nothing to loose but one thing to gain, find and kill every single person that harmed Ellie and everyone else in his way. The menacing, sadistic, enraged man that he truly is. That would be one hell of a game.
One what if... I'd love to play
That will be just God of War. Kratos already passed that. Even Kratos already wants to move on.
Manhunt lol
That would be so heartbreaking but I think that Joel would probably end his own life like Henry when Sam died. His character wouldn’t have anything to latch onto so the story wouldn’t have anywhere to go. You can’t replace a daughter figure with another daughter figure ya know.
Uninteresting as hell
Now do Arthur Morgan
Arthur Morgan is best represented as a true Brother-Uncle type person. Joel will always have that #1 Father type status. But a video would still be cool.
I really want this now lmao
Dude, YES! I’m currently playing RDR2 and I like the guy
@@toonpacha2396 I’m just answering this comment so that you share your feelings again once you end the game...
@@toonpacha2396 yes give an update please 😂
Joel may not be a good person
But he was a good ass father
Which makes him a good person lmao
@@lavarball528 different things
@@lavarball528 Ikr.
@@lavarball528Bro, imagine your father have murd3red a guy for no reason. You going to say he is a good guy bcs he is a good dad. It dont make sense.
What I love about Joel's words "I would do it all over again." is that he's teaching Ellie that her life did matter, and does matter, even if it's not a life that has a global impact as she thought. She brought joy to people just by being alive, and there. Ellie only learned this lesson at the exact moment she decided not to kill Abby. Sadly it was too late by that point, because Dina was already gone.
Dina and Ellie are like 20-21 years old. They hooked up for a few months.
That relationship is not nearly as deep as the game wants people to believe.
@@cargopilotguy305 his analysis is pretty spot on but focused on the wrong person, it’s not late for ellie to reconcile with dina but she doesn’t have that chance with joel anymore but she still did forgive him that’s why the flashback scene on the porch played during ellie sparing abby when ellie said she’ll try to forgive joel
Joel’s angry face after Jerry says “think of all the lives we could save” always gets me. Top notch
This game embodies the relationship of me and my own father. I think that’s why it means so much to me. Joel and my father William are spitting images of each other. It’s quite poetic to me.
I feel the same man. The relatability strengthens the impact of the game by a mile.
My father looks so much like Joel too.
same. and my dynamic with my dad is very similar to joel and ellie
ohhh this one hit the nail even tho when a child doesnt have a father but too embody or think how it would feel to have a father pictures it really well for this game i love so much
@@NoNameJ1622 Your dad's handsome then (no homo of course)
"I saved her" gives me chills every single time..
I guess what pissed Ellie so much is also the fact that Abby took away her chance to forgive Joel, and seeing him gone kinda hits her hard because she wasted two long years resenting a man she actually loved. Honestly I believe this is what haunts Ellie throughout the game, her ptsd episodes and all. But in the end she backs off when she realizes what Joel means to her and how she wants him to be remembered. I must say though that I found the game emotionally exhausting, so I really hope they make the Part 3 with Ellie probably looking for redemption with her friends, Dina and with herself, so we get a "happier" ending 😅
But just the fact that this game is generating so much discussion and different perspectives is already a proof that it is GREAT and a magnificent piece of art. It's undeniable how hard the story hits and how much it gets you thinking about a lot of stuff, even if you "hate" the game because it wasn't what everyone was expecting it to be.
Thanks for this video!! It helped me put some of my thoughts to words, especially when talking about selflessness.
well said bro well said
Love your comment, 100% how I feel. After the first play though I was exhausted. Think I stared at the title screen for an hour. Having just finished play though number 6, it’s a masterpiece for me, extraordinary
As a father going though the most horrible experience imaginable with my son. This gave me hope to keep fighting for his safety. I just want you to know this video gave me a much needed boost.
You got this brother.
@@angelserrano8386 Thank you, seriously that means a lot!
@tree-bark888 Thank you very much, we are pushing through this horrible situation and I really appreciate that!
Hope all is going well man! Keep fighting!
Keep it up champ. Hope You and your son fought trough the problems
I feel the Actor who plays Joel, needs to see this
He’s Troy Baker, he played a million characters, I doubt he’ll care
@@abdullahaltuwaijri8550 he should care because Joel is probably he's most loved character
@@abdullahaltuwaijri8550 Troy really enjoyed playing Joel and enjoys being an actor in general. I’m sure he’d care but I just doubt he’d have the time to see the video.
He care..
@@abdullahaltuwaijri8550 stfu
I asked my parents what they would do in the situation, and they said they of course would save me...this game is such a deep one
Every parent ever would save their child if it came down to it. I played part 1 with my father and even back then he told me that he would do the same as Joel. People who completely vilify him for doing so clearly don’t understand empathy or what it is to love. Hell even Jerry didn’t answer Marlene when she says “If this was your daughter, what would you do?” He’s left speechless. Because he knows if this happened to Abby, he would never either.
@@cocob0l0 it's a toxic, possessive kind of love though. If he really loved her, he would respect her wishes. He would burst into the operation room and take Jerry hostage and wake Ellie up, so she can decided for herself. Love sometimes means letting someone go. Ellie would want so sacrifice herself and Joel knows that and HE can't lose HER. Great Games
@@pulpficti The fireflies would have just killed him and taken Ellie if he tried to take Jerry hostage. It was either him or them. There was no time but it didn’t have to be that way. I don’t know why the fireflies were rushing everything. Could have ran some tested and waited but nope.
@@cocob0l0 Jerry is the only doctor capable of making a vaccine, therefore he's as valuable as Ellie maybe even more. Plus Marlene was still alive so this could have worked pretty good. That part is however not at all interesting because the interesting part is Ellies autonomy. Knowing she would want this he could also have just accepted the operation. I hear and read all the time that Joels decision wasn't selfish but it clearly was. He's not acting out of love because he can't bear losing another child. Understandable but still selfish
@@pulpficti I don’t think it’s selfish to want your child or child figure to... ya know... not die? Like I said, it’s every parent’s purpose in life. It doesn’t matter what happens to them, as long as their child is healthy and well... no matter what the cost is. Plus Ellie didn’t know she was going to die until she went back all those years later. You can see in part 1 she was excited to get out and be free with Joel. They should have just waited for Ellie to wake up and ask her themselves but, if you recall, the Fireflies never gave Joel or Ellie that chance
6:22 the balance between toughness and tenderness is a huge point in the last of us part 1. Bill and Frank shows what happens if Joel is too tough and argues with Ellie all the time. Sam and Henry shows what happens if Joel is too tender and doesn’t let Ellie defend herself or teach her how to live without him.
My favorite part of this video 10:20:
"When it comes to family, when it comes to someone you love, whether it's romantically, familial, platonic, every man needs to have an endless reserve of patience. Because it's that patience that allows for and respects the pace that those around you choose to live their lives at. Their understanding, their learning, their shortcomings and respective growths. none of them can happen and be appreciated without patience.
And at the very ending of the game, we see that the patience Joel demonstrated as he waited for Ellie gave her gift. Something so important, a life-changing skill that you can only learn by choosing it at each available opportunity. Forgiveness."
Oh man, this made me tear up. Just thinking about those two long years that Joel spent with a gaping hole in his heart just wondering if he would ever be close to Ellie again. Then... he finally gets a chance. And that's when IT happens. I am just SO glad that he did not have to die wondering.
You are correct. I just finished the game yesterday and I was thinking the same about how in Joel's last moments he did get to see Ellie caring for him attempting to save his life. Even though he met his fate in such a horrible way, something tells me he died complete.
@@28goldenboy Absolutely.
It honestly concerns me that there are people who still vilify Joel for what happened at the hospital to this day
people who said he made the wrong choice at the hospital don’t understand what it’s like to be a parent and the protective nature that kicks in when your kids life is at risk. he did what any parent who loves their kid would do
Some people still think that to this day, either the million dollar question has never remotely crossed their minds or they would absolutely sacrifice their own if it means developing a vaccine. Which is concerning
@@ryanhowe6543 Facts. And think about it, the world is destroyed and a lot of the population is dead. Buildings and roads are destroyed. Even if the vaccine was made, the world was never gonna be normal again.
I would do the same for any child let alone the children in my own family.
@@nova_raindrop1257 I think deep down Joel also knew a vaccine (which has a slim chance of even working anyway) wouldn’t solve anything. The 20 years of infection has broken and ruined everyone and everything and the millions (or billions who knows) of infected don’t magically disappear. It would take centuries to get the world even remotely back on track but it would never be the same.
Frfr
You can see Joel fighting back his tears as Ellie tells him she wants to forgive him.
I think that Joel was lost after Sarah's death, it took until meeting Ellie that he was able to find himself again and to learn to be happy again. He had something to fight for, not to just survive.
Man, that splice where you have that "I don't know if I can forgive you, but I would like to try" over where Ellie opts to not kill Abby, that's what I really do think was going through Ellie's mind. We only get the bit of Joel on the porch with his guitar as players, but I think this way is how Ellie actually saw it in her mind, which caused her to stop. It's not really her forgiving Abby, I think. But it's a step toward healing, and maintaining her humanity in the process.
I always thought this was obvious but I guess not
So good .
thats exactly what everyone who didnt like the ending didnt get.. i think ellies journey to get revenge ultimately became ellies lesson to forgive.. imo. ellie was never that revenge driven because of Joel's death.. she was more so angry that she finally wanted to try to forgive joel, and after having lost 4 or so years because of her confusion about joels actions.. when abby takes joel away from her, and her chance to properly forgive him.. she was angry about the way everything was left off.. and at the end.. when ellie finally lets abby live and says "just take him".. that hurt, cause it was meant about Joel, not lev.. also, the fact that joel was alive and saw ellie come after him, I would like to think Joel went with peace feeling that Ellie had finally truly forgiven him, and she still cares..
@Caterfree10 ... I so 100% concur with you. As Ellie is drowning Abby, she is remembering her last conversation with Joel. What is so beautiful about this game is that Naughty Dog doesn't spoon feed us. The story says what it needs to and relies on us to piece it together. I believe the only way anyone cane hate Part 2 is if they don't understand the story and can't piece the narrative together. I mean the haters are probably bigots of varying degrees also, but that's a separate discussion.
@@marcileatherboots1 THANK YOU! It really pisses me off that people think Ellie just forgave her because Abby was a "good character" or because she just couldn't do it. There are so many underlining themese that can be found not just in the conversations or flashbacks but even in the environment. It baffles me that people did not realize that. Naughty did a phenomenal job but people just decided to be pricks man
I love how long it actually takes Joel to confess. You can tell he is using everything inside him to not let the words come out.
Joel’s character arch is extremely moving in the Last of us. The flip of his persona, the choices he makes, it all makes you just appreciate the creativity by Naughty Dog.
Joel isn’t perfect, but he sure is close.
I’m gonna be honest I think I’ve cried every time watching this video. You did a wonderful job doing his character justice. Joel was always at his core just a father trying to do right by his daughters.
thank you 🙏
its joel's self awareness that i love, abby's narrative always trying to force her into the good girl persona who does not have any control over her choices, while Joel actually accepts his choices and admits that he would do it all over again.
I think a lot of Abbys life before Lev was regretful, but isn't that the same think we could say about Joel's life before Ellie and after Sarah?
@@beepbopboop7727 I think so too, but I think the writing was too weak to emphasize that side of Abby, which is why a lot of people struggle to acceptt that about her. Like I think that deep down her character was supposed to be remorseful, but they never made that clear, it made her look cartoonishly evil
@@gersoncelaya7574 Exactly! Abby never feels remorseful for any of her actions (albeit killing Joel who saved her life moments earlier, or masscaring a group of her friends) yet gets everything she wants. While I know this wasn't Naughty Dog's intention, it felt like that one bratty student in Middle School who was treated unjustly, because she was the teacher's favorite.
@Raymond Davis Abby expresses remorse multiple times in the game to Lev/Yara as well as Owen. Constant nightmares. Even her face in the scene after killing Joel certainly doesn't look like she's proud of what she's done. I have a feeling the level of remorse you're looking for could never be matched in a way that would make sense for her character since Joel is someone we all loved for years but also someone Abby has hated for years.
@@pooty195 Owen expresses a intresting prespective about revenge to Abby, but instead of exploring this intresting side, it just leads to a out of nowhere sex scene. Also the nightmares Abby has is never related to Joel, just her Dad dying or the death of Lev. At least that's how I interpreted it.
“Sometimes that’s just what the heart needs... time.” That hit me deep. It’s real
Your monotone perception of Joels attributes is genuinely so soothing, using such direct words in describing how he isn't perfect but was true to what he believed in and nothing could stop him when protecting the ones he loved was amazing. 10/10
Anyone who doesn't understand Joel's choice to save Ellie is because he's not yet a father/mother . If I had to choose between the world or my son, I would choose my son 200x without even thinking about it.
Amazing Video !!!
that.. pissed off look in his eyes when he says with a half voice ''I saved her...'' it hits just so fucking hard
Joel is a direct descendant of Arthur Morgan and no one can change my mind
He's out of line, but he's right
@@samuelsalcedo6875 I understood that reference
How can you be a direct descendant without carrying his last name?? 0.o
@@EroticOnion23 I mean... Arthur did have a son, and clearly this was just for the meme, but if you really wanna put some thought into it you could easily picture the kid surviving the attempt on his life (I think Arthur said someone killed him and the mother) and knowing his father is a wanted, dangerous man, he could just as easily go somewhere else and use a different name. And yeah, I just made that up off the top my head, and it's not to be taken seriously... But yeah, you get the point.
And with that story I don't mean the kid is Joel. No. He's old, but not that old. I meant the kid could've had descendants using another name like... I dunno, Miller? Instead of Morgan.
Let’s not forget that Ellie and Joel were supposed to watch a movie together,
Thank god someone finally understands that it was 100% feasible that Joel opened up to Abby and the strangers like that. People change all the time.
I thought it was a little obvious too, especially being shown that side of Joel with Sarah and later on with Ellie in the first game.
Plus: they were chased by a horde of infected in a blizzard! How is that not acknowledged?!
But Cole Macgrath is a completely different character in inFAMOUS 2 and that’s okay…Sometimes, I just don’t understand people
the people whos biggest criticism of part 2 is that joel wouldn't have been as trusting of Abby from the beginning clearly only took a surface look at the original, if they have played it at all
Exactly, especially since it was 4 years later
Nah it's not realistic for him to be like that to random people... no no no
@@ryanhowe6543 fools just cherry picking
I like how Joel is almost glorified in this game. Ellie’s memories of him almost always paint him as loving and sympathetic, similarly Abby’s memory of her father is the same. This a story where daughters cling to this idea of an idyllic father figure when clearly there are issues at play, they aren’t perfect even if loving and they make mistakes, bad ones. But because of how much the child loves the parent, how painful it is to lose them and how hateful that makes them towards the facilitator of their torment, they can’t bring themselves to intentionally remember their parent in their flawed entirety because that’s an obstacle to their hatred, dissonance to their passionate vindictiveness. Such an emotional overload demands they warp their brains into edifying what they lost. Joel had to be perfect, Jerry had to perfect, otherwise, what am I doing? No one EVER says the word “revenge” in this game. Both Ellie and Abby call their pursuits justice, when that’s not what it is. And the fact that they feel this way at all is indicative of how deep their pain really is and how unconditional true familial love really is.
Incredible take, and perfectly descriptive of both Abby and Ellie's paths in this game. Well done.
This is such a great comment!!
Tlou has such a profound story in which each character development is carefully thought out. Aside from joel and ellie's story, i somewhat emphatize with abby because she was put in the position where her "justice" was justified for everything she had lost. One of the greatest games i have ever played anyway.
Bro, can you speak at my funeral? That was so beautiful.
Joel did nothing wrong
“Good Men, we are violent, stubborn, and will not stop, will not regret any of our actions, to fight for the ones we love,” ww2 American solider interview
Amen. 👌🏻
I’m sad this CZcamsr hasn’t made more videos. This video is among the best video essays I’ve seen.
I was just thinking the same. I've watched this video 3 times already (once per year)
Joel was Ellie’s role model and she grew up to try and be just like him. Even after she found out the truth about her immunity and the vaccine, she still grew up to follow his guidelines and keep him in her memory for as long as possible. Joel was neither a good nor bad man but he was the best man in Ellie’s eyes and the one that kept her going.
Many people said that ellie remembering her last conversation with joel at the end was a bit contrived, myself included, but the more I think about it I really like how we see that short shot of joel, remembering her last conversation with him: "I don't know if I can forgive you, but I would like to try". At that point she realized that, because her pain was caused by not forgiving joel, which led to intense feelings of guilt, forgiveness is the path to move forward. resentment was the cause of all her pain to begin with, she would just be making the same mistake twice if she didn't "try to forgive" abby. I think at that point she realized that her words to joel are equally applicable towards abby as well.
Resentment towards Joel led her to feel an intense guilt, she should've forgiven him, but sadly she started it too little too late. She couldn't let resentment ruin her life again, so she forgave abby, as she wished she could've done with Joel to avoid all that pain.
yep. they told us everything we needed to know with that short little flash of joel and the conversation it represented.
yea but isnt it strange that she forgives HIS KILLER? she killed everyone but not the one she really wanted...
@@vallykoool I can’t believe you can read and listen to all of this and still say that
@@redred2395 man dont get me wrong...i always defend this game against the haters, i understand why ellie spared her i do and the arguments from above are good and it makes sense but it still feels strange and a little bit forced (like u kill everyone but u finally understand that revenge sucks only in the end when u fight the one u wanted, the one who ruined ur life) plus, him/her biting my two fingers would make me even more mad and would make me change my decision..
@@vallykoool but Ellie brought that on herself if she didn’t go after her she wouldn’t have lost her fingers
So glad I got to see this. What a masterpiece this is.
Same🥺
Me too. I am glad. I hope i remember the game as potraited here, not as a disappointment.
I agree.
I Disagree if I was in a happy environment for four years I wouldn’t forget that there’s evil on the earth and let my guard down and love everyone meeting them for the first time you need to have a balance to survive and that’s logical thinking
The production value of this video is phenomenal. The clips used, the way they’re spliced, the implementation of music, and the contents of the discussion itself all blend together to reframe a beautiful picture of a story that I love. I am blown away. You have gained a loyal subscriber, and I’m so excited to see more from you.
thank you 🙏
As a young, 21 year old about to either re-enlist in the military or Leave in a year, this video helped me get a better grasp of myself and the decisions I will be making. It helped me even calm down on my worst days. Thank you.
There are tons of reasons for why I love the character of Joel so much; Troy's performance, him being such a honest depiction of a conflicted human in a post-apocalyptic world, the fact that his motivations are so understandable, his past and I could go on.
He's almost like a mythical character to me. I feel like this video strengthened these qualities, while also presenting some new perspectives on him and for that I can't thank you enough. Your cinematic approach works really well. This video definitely deserves all the attention it can get!
thank you so much 🙏
A key point everyone seems to overlook is that the fireflies never told Ellie that they'd have to kill her to get the cure. At a point in the university she outright asks Joel if he thinks 'it will hurt' and Joel says he believes that they'll only have to draw some blood without Ellie correcting him. Because she didn’t know. Then take what happens when they find the fireflies and Joel has every justification to react as he did.
It was all just wrong. A desperate last attempt at trying to save a world that was long gone. They weren't even sure if they could actually make the "cure", and Abby's dad when confronted by Marlene about if he would still go through with the procedure if It was his own daughter instead of Ellie... He hesitated, obviously.
Man, I love this game and the characters (except for Abby) but it's all so damn tragic for everyone.
Exactly. And medically, the way Anderson was going about it makes no sense. Think about that dispassionately: regardless of who it is or any moral or ethical considerations about Joel's choices in the moment, the Fireflies had ONE subject with immunity. As far as they knew, she was completely unique in the entire world. And yet, their first move was to do a lethal one time procedure on her... with NO guarantee it would even work! How does that make any sense?
The fatal procedure should have been step 5 or 10 or 50 in the process.... not the first damn one! You get a small sample of Ellie's cordyceps growth first through a non-lethal less harmful procedure. You test with that. Then you take another and another if needed. Removing the whole of what was inside her all at once and killing her right away makes absolutely no scientific sense to me regardless of any other consideration. I'm surprised no one ever mentions this.
Everything about the end of part 1 and the scenes with Anderson and Marlene in part 2 on the day Joel and Ellie got to St-Mary's angered me exactly because of this (on top of the emotinal turmoil this story causes as you got attached to these caracters).
Anderson and the Fireflies went at it it like complete presumptuous assholes and that is not even considering they never consulted Ellie (or Joel) to tell her what they would be doing to her which makes the whole thing even more shitty. Murder indeed... but also gross incompetence IMO. With stakes that high, killing their subject as the very first step he does just for a "chance" for a cure is just mind mindbogglingly stupid to me in the story.
This made me cry. I’m playing the Last of Us for the 17th time. It’s not a New Game +, so I’ll play it again. Then The Last of Us: Part 2 for the 5th time. Despite Joel being killed off in the second game. The second game is brilliant.
I know he spent 20 years, as a drifter. Murdering anyone and doing anything to survive. But he lost his daughter. Taking a child off a parent, takes away so much from them. Their existence becomes pointless.
Then he meets Ellie. Who he’s reluctant to be around at first. But then they bond. There’ll never be a game like this one. The fact that I got to exist, when this game came out. Is amazing.
It’s sad to see what Ellie loses in the second game. She goes on a self-destructive journey. Hopefully in the third game, she finds a way to find peace.
I hundred percent agree on this video, especially the last trait. A year with Ellie changed Joel, that means 4 years in Jackson will definitely change his personality and perspective.
Wow, I actually came very close to crying several times in this video.
Beautiful
i did once
Very close? I wiped away tears multiple timesss
@@saramcq I lost my father very recently, his funeral was last Wednesday. I'm wanting to replay the first and second game, I'm expecting this whole story to make me absolutely break down crying now
@@redndead8993 oh gosh I am so sorry I've lost a parent as well and it is not easy. Sending lots of good vibes your way
@@saramcq Thank you, I very much appreciate it. I'm sorry for your loss as well
joel has to be one of my favourite characters from anything *ever*. naughty dog did a wonderful job making him feel so real. the depth this character has and the love he has for ellie is something so relatable which is why i can't help but feel a genuine sense of loss every time i see his death scene. i honestly could have played a whole game of just joel raising ellie after the events of the first game. this was an excellent video essay and you bet i cried like a baby.
thank you 🙏
What Joel did may not have been the right thing to do, but after sitting for hours and seeing his relationship with Ellie grow and coming to love both of these characters, ain’t no way in hell could you not root for the man in that hospital
we've only known Joel for 15 hours yet his character has made such a big impact on us we feel like we've known him forever
CZcams recommendations just blessed me with this video.
I really like how you tied in Ellie’s ability to start to forgive Joel, with her ability to spare Abbey’s life. That was a “lightbulb” moment for me. I also really like your explanation for how Joel easily gave away his name to Abbey because at that point he was a changed man. I stumbled across this video in my recommended and I’m glad I watched it!
Living in a community like Jackson with people you love can do that to anybody. Since it’s been 4 years, I doubt that was his first time introducing himself.
I also find it odd that a lot of people don’t acknowledge that they were being chased by a horde of infected in a blizzard and instead said “oh, they just waltzed into a trap”
@@ryanhowe6543 I think a lot of people really cared about Joel, and wanted to rationalize why his death “couldn’t” make sense to console themselves. Absolutely no evidence for that, just my own anecdotal experience lol
This game in my opinion was beautiful and a masterpiece. Never have i ever felt so close to the characters and at the same time felt so many emotions thru a game
am i the only one who cried because he was a loving father and it reminded me of my dad
I’m glad to see that there’s people out there that loved this game despite all the horrible press over Joel’s death. In reality death never comes at a poetic time and this game exposes that. Joel got ripped from us just like Abby’s father was ripped from her and the writers made us feel that loss.
You might have just made me like this game with that comment
Exactly. People felt lied to, cheated, robbed, and angry over Joel. That doesn't make the scene bad, it makes it what it intended to be
Exactly! People forget the power in storytelling comes not only from it being able to make us feel good, but also with how hard it's able to hit us and make us feel angry, hopeless, and upset.
Except we don't give a shit about Abby or her dad since we literally had a whole game focus on Joel and Ellie. You really thought you did something huh? Joel's death is one of the most forced and worse writing executions in video game history
@@johnsoapmactavish9921 That’s your opinion.
I can finally move past my anger with Naughty Dog...
I can now mourn Joel alone and quietly in my heart....
Great video, man
The flowers left outside his house after his death showed how much he was liked he must have been like a hero for a lot of ppl a mentor for the younger groups like Jesse
This is the kind of understanding this game needs. I agree with everything you said. Joel was a real keeper and they paid respects to him. Amazing job you did here, friend
thank you very much
Much respect. Beaten by a golf club after giving himself up like an idiot even though just four years ago he was an absolute force to be reckoned with
This game is a story-telling masterpiece. No video game has ever came close.
@David Mutchler I'd say that's second, two of my favourites!
It hurts so much because he's the father figure i've always wanted in my life.
This game still haunt's me even if its been over a year since I've first played.
Ill say it again, as I have for a long time. Joel is the type of man I wish to be, not good, not bad, but a man who tries his best for his community and the people he loves/protects
ever since the game released and everybody said ''Joel's death is out of character he would never trust strangers like that'' I always did my best to convince people that the joel from the first game would never trust a stranger, sure, but in tlou2 we have been thrown forward for like 4-5 years and in that time joel became a whole different person. I'm happy that someone made a video saying the exact same thing
Completely agree.
They seem to also ignore that He, Tommy and Abby were chased by a swarm of infected in a blizzard with rather limited options
In a bloated game that half of was just to make stupidly obvious point, they could've soared half an hour to show us the hypothetical new Joel, they didn't.
The sequel was nothing but betrayal for old fans.
I wish I could've played the sequel first, maybe then I wouldn't so deeply despise the story.
Oooof and the stupid binary controversy, in my opinion that was what killed the game and story.
"A live changing skill" me "Don't talk about skillshare for the love of God 😂
fuck this was good
I just went through and watched a bunch of your videos. really good stuff- I loved the art of tearbending. subscribed and definitely looking forward to more!
Thanks for the kind words. Very much looking forward to what you do next. Feels like the kinda channel where if you can keep getting work out, you are pretty much guaranteed to succeed. Great style and just so thoughtful.
@@razbuten after watching your content that means a lot. I appreciate it 🙏 I'll have something new up soon, and then will hopefully start to have some more consistency after that ha.
@@philn0va best of luck. feel free to hit me up on twitter if you ever wanna talk shit about making videos and all that
@@razbuten thank you!
My man drops one video essay, absolutely kills it, and is never seen again? Bro you need to do some more this is amazing
haha thanks.. I will soon hopefully 🙏
it really pains me that Joel and Tommy helped Abby and she still killed Joel. I don't know what i would've done but that broke her for me
Her view on joel is a lot like people who read the leaks for the game before it came out and made assumptions. She had a view of him that she hated and she stuck with it despite him showing hes a good man. Hatred is a hell of a thing.
@@aaronholmes1253 that's actually an interesting analogy
I think they could’ve placed her story better. Personally I think they should’ve put Ellie’s day 1 then Abby’s instead of all at once. Because I hated Abby and almost flat out refused to play her story during Seattle day 1. Jesse was one of my favorite characters in the last of us 2 so that was tricky. But then Abby meets Lev, a kid who like Ellie needed help. Then I had a reason to follow her story.
@@rypiggylebruski5235 Well developers considered this story structure as well but again. This game wants to challenge you. It want you to feel strong emotions. (Excuse my terrible conditionals grammar) If they were to constantly switch from one perspective to another you would've been like "ok I get it there's two sides to the same coin, Ellie stop please". But that isn't what devs we're aiming for. You gotta be in the mindset Ellie's in until the very last second of the Day III. And then the perspective switch hits the hardest. And you're not constantly comparing Abby and Ellie after each chapter. You take the journey with Ellie and then challenged to question everything you've done in the last 3 days
you’re so right sir
After watching this I had to play the birthday level, probably the best level ever made. And I cried a river or two doing so.
I have always identified strongly with Joel. When I first played TLOU, I was 47 and my twin daughters were 14), and when I played TLOU2 (with Elsa, one of my daughters) I was 52 and she had just turned 19. Elsa studied music and art, and in one class they played TLOU, watched "the Road" and then wrote an essay about these two post-apocalyptic worlds.
And with both of us loving TLOU, it was a no-brainer to play TLOU2 together. In my opinion, it made the whole emotional rollercoaster even better. The sadness, loss, anger, and love for the characters deepened even more (at least I think so). And even if we were both really angry and sad - we both loved Abby's story.
Life isn't fair, life isn't a smooth ride. But seeing the hate towards Naughty Dog just makes me sad. They've made two of the best, most emotional games ever.
And as a personal note, I can testify to life's shittiness - in the last decade, I've lost my mom to cancer, lost part of my foot to cancer, lost an eye and have had severe chronic eye pain for 9 years, lost my brother to suicide, I also have a daughter with severe epilepsy (not the one I played with). Sometimes I'd like stories with happy endings, but the stories that have helped me through these years are stories I can relate to in some way. And no story have done this better than TLOU!
This has to be one of the most beautiful and eye opening essays I’ve heard in a long time thank you. Can’t wait to see what’s next
I need to say thank you, it’s very rare that I bumble across a video of this quality and that video manages to make me reevaluate my experience with a game I had extremely strong feelings for.
I’m astonished that this video has only around 9 thousand likes as I’m finding it it deserves much more.
Wow mate you good, it makes me angry to watch other youtubers talking crap coz they really didnt get the story but you are dead on point thanks and hope to see more, to be honest i like all the characters in part 2 coz they really involved in what they believe in, its a game about emphathy
Ok its a game about empathy. Abby got everything she wanted. She got her revenge and her redemption. I should have empathy for her because she is a woman? Which seems to be a big thing in this game: women good men bad smfh
@@leighronrobinson7307 Exactly... Abby is the worst character ever. The game was trash. The video is great but it's as if he played a different game.
@@leighronrobinson7307 Abby wanted a happy life in Salt Lake City with her father, her best friends and her first love Owen. Then came Joel and took that from her. Because she can only think about revenge she loses Owen. She can only focus on training and killing, preparing herself for Joel. Yes she got her revenge but you list that as a positive for her when it clearly wasn't. She wanted to enjoy this moment but she couldn't because she was confronted instantly with the consequences. Owen is now in a relationship expecting a baby, Mel doesn't talk to her since. Manny seems the only really close friend left. So literally everyone of her friends die plus Owen and plus Yara who she tried to save so hard. Yes she gets her redemption but her life is fucking ruined. Only positive is Lev and maybe a purpose again with the fireflies. Ellie didn't have her redemption yet, she just started her journey. But that's because Abby and Ellie are on the same path but at different times. Ellie is now at the same point Abby was after killing Joel. Abby instantly saw and felt that it wasn't worth it. Ellie realized the same thing but luckily sooner than Abby. So I think Ellie got a hopeful ending. I don't understand this women/men bullshit you talking about though. Literally every character is at times portrayed as an asshole and other times as a good guy.
@@leighronrobinson7307 ah yes. This game is all women good men bad. What a logical statement that makes perfect sense
@@leighronrobinson7307 I’m sorry what???
Abby wanted to have a father-hers got killed needlessly
She completely devoted her life to avenging him, tearing all her friendships in the process, including her lover
When she finally killed Joel, she felt no better-and the nightmares she’d been having got worse
After finally killing him, all her friends were murdered in response
She-just like Joel-regained her humanity through kids. This relationship cost her the faction she was a part of, and one of those kids was then killed right in front of her face
When she hunts down the person that killed all of her friends, she lets them go, and when she tries to move on, she gets captured and tortured for months
So yeah, she got her revenge, but it didn’t help. Her redemption didn’t stop her from losing literally everything. Her entire life up to 3 days from the end or the story is gone. And somehow you got the idea that your empathy is supposed to come from...her vagina??? *REALLY?* For fucks sake dude, you’re hopeless. It’s actually pathetic
There are some interesting parallels between Joel and another Troy Baker character, Booker Dewitt. Both are murdered due to the unforeseen consequences of the choices they made for their daughters, neither see it coming, and they are the villains of the bigger picture. Just thought that was an cool similarity
Ah yes! Bioshock infinite I love the series..that game in particular brings the whole series full circle and I really like your comparison between Booker and Joel because I agree!
How is Joel a villain? Everything he ever did in the time playing as him is justified. His past as a hunter does not define him, especially after he saved Ellie's life and helped the Jackson community.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef He is the main antagonist of Abby for years of her life, and their meeting is what kicks off the main conflict for the rest of the game.
@@RickLag8514 He is the villain of someone we weren't attached to. We were Joel. Trying to make the audience feel bad for sympathizing is a risky move. It didn't work out for tlou2. Neil is no George RR Martin
I lost my dad a few years ago, and the events that played out between Ellie and Joel in the second game do kind of mirror certain things in my own life. For the last couple of years there was tension and I wasn't really talking to him anymore, very similar to how Ellie decided to distance herself from Joel. I did have a few last good memories with him before he passed. While I may have been less mature, being a teenager at the time, the conflict mostly stemmed from his side of the situation. Deep down he was a good man, far from perfect, but he tried to be the best dad he could be. I see a lot of my dad in Joel.
Watching this video made me cry, because in many ways this game was therapeutic for me, and this video was such a beautiful exploration of this beloved character, really clarifying what it is that makes him feel so much like a real person. It helped put certain things in my own life into perspective as a side-effect, some grief I haven't really dealt with, but was able to thanks to this character. So, in short, I just wanted to thank you for making this.
wow, thank you very much for sharing... 🙏 i'm glad the video could be helpful, and i'm very sorry for your loss.
This is by far one of the best if not the greatest videos of last of us I've seen. You're extremely underrated.
I cried. A beautifully executed take and exactly how I view Joel and his actions. I take care of my mother and two sisters alone and I can say that so many of these characteristics you dissected do truly make a man or simply a good person.
Thank you. You’ve earned a subscriber.
EDIT: revisiting this video again nine months later. Hope we’ll see more from you soon!
thank you 🙏
Hey good luck to you, too.
The joel we see in part 1 is not who joel is, the world has turned him into a cruel, unforgiving and brutal man. Its only when he meets Ellie he begins to become a father again, which is why his decision at the end of part 1 is so impactful. People that say joel would never trust abby or her friends completely disregard the development of his character, and the joel we see in part 2 is the real joel, one who is caring, forgiving and a loving father.
exactly
you got it my friend!
Thank you!
Some people just don’t understand the character, I think the worst are the ones who vilify him for the ending of the first game, which concerns me because they might as well say they would have let their own die because it’s the “right thing/selfless” thing to do. Those people kinda scare me
@@ryanhowe6543 There actually people who thinks that Joel's choice in the end of the first game was very inhuman and I cannot disagree more. That is probably the most human choice a game character could possibly make
I can understand not exactly agreeing with his choice, but I do think it’s worth considering “would I have really done different if it was (one of) my own?”
It’s the people who still vilify him for it to this day are who concern me
How is this man sitting on only 2K subs? I just watched a professional documentary, including fitting background music, clean edits, a clear story, and poignant and provoking thoughts. Give this man the subscribe.
thank you 🙏
This is by far my favorite video on CZcams, I’ve watched it countless times. I beg you please make more
You know, I didn’t really like The Last of Us 2. But this gave me a whole different perspective, and I really did enjoy your point of view. I thank you for this video because for the first time in a long while I actually cried some. Beautifully well done!
Man, this might be one of the best videos I've ever seen. Brilliant work!
This is truly the MOST impactful and moving video regarding a piece of media I have ever seen
off topic but oh my gosh the way you set up your videos is incredible. The way the music plays in the background setting up the mood and when you paused it so joel’s words could be heard super clear is just chefs kiss
great work! keep it up
JBP’s voice “learn to be a monster, to be a good man”
“Joel waits patiently… loyally..”
Me: 😢
A single tear rolled down my cheek. This is amazing. Ya got me good. This is the true character of Joel, as all who can see him clearly know.
🙏
The talk about tenderness and being tuff really opened my eyes, thank you, really great stuff
I wasn't ready...
Honestly one of my fav scenes and exact moments in this game is when Joel and Ellie are sitting in the space shuttle laughing and smiling at each other 🥰😭
That moment never fails to make me cry man and im a dude!
You are honestly a good person. The way you portrayed the character of joel... It hits you right there. You worked really hard to make this video. Appreciate it man! We really loved joel even he was a fictional.
🙏
i comeback to this video a lot, it is really comforting
My dad walked out on my family. I hope that one day when I’m a father I can show the same attributes to my kids that Joel showed to Eli..