@@Nathan-rn7wl Follow the logic where it goes. My example is valid based on the argument provided. P1. Leaders should be bowed to. P2. My manager is a leader. C. Therefore my manager should be bowed to. I don't agree with premise 1 so the conclusion doesn't follow. I act as if the conclusion doesn't follow in my daily life. I don't bow to my manager. Therefore, it follows that the conclusion doesn't follow for any leaders if that's the only reason why people bow to them.
We fight war's for less of course not everyone supports all traditions but you don't have to all you have to do is respect to millions they are very important
@@davidevans3223millions have traditions of hating LGBTQ and women. I will not show an inkling of respect for these people or the traditions they stand for. Same goes for the monarchy. There is no reason to respect such an archaic system that elevates one family above not just other people but in many cases the law itself. How can one stand for people being equal, and still support a monarchy?
@@davidevans3223 when the queen died millions lost access to incredibly important services and places because it's tradition to shut down those services Respect goes both way, if your tradition impedes on my way of living i'm not going to respect it
@@davidevans3223there's a difference between 'respecting' someone's traditions, and a significant portion of the taxes you pay being used to support it.
@@tripweed you're just full of hate for other's born into a different privalige why don't you swap your life for someone born into Rwanda it's a suppose a far bigger drop but of course to you that must mean even more wrong to many having running water and food is living like a king
@tonyschumacher-jones1540 Put it this way, I'm saying that tradition is irrelevant to the point. I only bring up handshakes and compare it to other traditions within context as a response to the woman in the video doing so. I don't think saying "but it's tradition" just wipes away all negativity affiliated with it otherwise. Edit: I assume you meant that comment sarcastically but on the now-noticeable chance that you didn't, sorry lmao
The difference is these are rituals that are universally done by the common people and by the rich aristocrats. Praising someone due to their prescribed status is really strange
Widespread violence & crime have happened for practically all of history- it must be the ideal. Let us strive to be a wretch upon the Earth & all life! 🤦🏽♀️
I also think it particularly funny that a woman was so invested in appealing to tradition but I don't wanna get into how many traditions would not really make her happy to try to keep, as a woman. Unless she thinks her life is less important than a tie, which to bootlickers I'm never sure if it's clear.
Not in the west thanks to the British empire the international slave trader's all over the world have been stopped but outside the Christian world real slaves not modern day slaves there's more than any other time in history. Everyone in the UK is born with different privaliges only the royals comes with duties and the majority support them so it's evil to remove them that's what dictator do
Nothing is more important than culture and heritage nothing at all most people are willing to at least risk their lives for it if you don't have it you have nothing the royals have no power many obligations and make millions happy as long as they have majority support you'd have to be an evil dictator to remove them
@@dennisgoatimer1079that’s not really the argument though, is it? no one is accusing the queen of having been a bad ruler, but rather questioning the system that made her ruler in the first place
@@liamosborne6859 The system is perfect fella without it you would have to wait around every single time one of them dies and by the time that happens the tyrannical dictator can't be stopped like Germany in the 30s when President Von Hindenburg died. Plus it's stability in this trying times that many people look up to. Just look at the Christmas Speech during COVID and how that did help people mentally.
Amazing right. Hell! I know a lot of folks with that thought process. I just wanna shake em,haha wake up people that’s crazy talk. “That’s just the way it is”type shit, kills me. Glad! I’m not the only one who caught that, sure is reassuring haha😂
well i like to point out that the declaration of human rights and the constitution both over - ride god laws. the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment, we didn't vote for god or a king.
@@redwire6315Only because a former wide load royal threw a tantrum and wanted to be able to sleep around unchallenged. Funny how there's a repeating historical theme in these people of tantrum throwing for self gain.
Royalists aren't dumb. We all have birth and genetic privileges, some have more, some have less. Every single person, including Alex, is where he/she is mostly because of the genetic lottery. If it weren't for the lucky crossing over and good genes from parents, they wouldn't be what they are now. Everyone also has non gene related birth privileges. Look at history, the average person has almost never become the leader of a nation. Most often, they are children of rich and powerful people. Monarchy isn't as stupid as Republicans claim, it's just that you guys rarely ever debate with actual Monarchists or Monarchist scholars.
@@holyromanemperor420 The funniest part about your comment is that you seem to be serious. Monarchism is dead, deal with it. Or don't and keep larping as "Holyromanemperor420". You do you
@@shahdhussein4652Looking down from heaven (as in: she’s dead, and now looks from the heavens), as well as “looking down on someone (who is socially beneath you).”
@@filipedias7284Are you sure he isn't British? His apologising for inconvenience potentially caused is spot on, I could swear to the lord above (should one exist, which it doesn't) that he is totally British.
I feel like Alex is kinda being a shit here. The Monarchy is ridiculous and out dated and fair criticism of it is completely warranted. But he didn't need to go about it this way. When he is intelligent enough to know full well that is not what Harry meant by "looking down on us." He is just being a provacatour.
He admits that he's trying to be funny, but it's not like they let him elaborate or that he doesn't have a point. He's saying the dude had a very poor choice of words.
@@GiubileiFernandoit's not a poor choice of words though, it's a perfectly normal way to express that somebody has passed. It's actually completely unreasonable to interpret a personal expression of grief as intended to make a convincing argument in favour of a world view. It's pedantry, plain and simple. It's fine if they point was to make a joke, but it wasn't, it was to pursuade us of an argument. Since it feels like the joke is at our expense, since clearly nobody else interpreted the phrase in that way, it fails to convince the panel or the audience. In general it's considered poor form to make jokes when somebody is grieving. If you are very close, it could be seen as trying to cheer somebody up but when you're not even in the same room as them it's just coming off as callous. You don't have to start singing hymns when a Christian is grieving but it's absolutely not the time to debate the existence of an afterlife.
@fleurdanon Someone in that position has the right to be offended but it does nothing to change the fact that Alex has the more important right to make the joke in the first place. Many people in that position wouldn't like it? So what?
I once worked in a place that receivec a royal visit. I bowed out - if I clearly was to get no work done that day, why be there at all? I mean - I didn't even have any warts that needed curing! One of my pathetic co-workers summed up my absence in a way that impressed even me. "But... but... what if people find out?" No slavery worse than the kind we volunteer for. I have hind legs. Even in old age, I reserve the right to stand on them...
Right. Tradition should be respected to a certain degree, but it's not a religion. Questioning Tradition is not a sin. It's not like we wiwloose all cultural values just because someone questions the value of aristocrats in the 21.century.
People also "ran with" (some still do) sl@very and it "sorta worked." Just because something is a tradition doesn't mean it's good or should be defended. Appeal to tradition is one of the most well-known and transparent logical fallacies.
@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280yes but you're not offering us a fair choice. There's no world in which you can dissolve the monarchy without replacing it. The question isn't what's wrong with the monarchy, the question is what system do you think is so much better that we should invest the huge effort towards changing to it. How much of the government's money do you want to spend rewriting the laws and how are you going to make sure that it's fair? When all is said and done, what tangible benefit does that new system offer that's worth all the hassle? It's simply easier to not change unless you have a better argument that "tradition bad". Because capitalism bad and socialism bad and everything bad if you want it to be.
As a Brit this is really upsetting. A panel of educated individuals who still think like Bronze Age sheep herders. Well done Alex, keep fighting for intellectual freedom.
The people support the RF as millionaires with their taxes, and they don't even rule over them. They are a tourist attraction, they "work" doing volunteer work. But who gets paid like that to do volunteering and charity work??
@@gusgrizzel8397 the most common rebuttal is they bring in tourism and thus, income for the whole country. I have never found this convincing and I still don’t believe it’s true either. Regardless if it was, I don’t think it’s worth it on a moral nor ethical level.
@@TheStanDudley Agree. Any income they bring in is cancelled by the Brit's paying taxes to support them. Allegedly Charles got 500 millions, but is overall worth 24 billion, when the Queen died. They're just rich people. They don't rule over anyone.
@@TheStanDudleyBut Why be so against it? Its not harming anyone, But to be fair, the UK has a greater deal of space between Rich and poor, so money is a huge thing. But the monarchy holds no real power, and stands as a thing for people to unify over. I dont get Why people want a boring republic where the head of State changes every 4 or 8’th year, just to get someone like Boris in who seemed like a Raving lunatic.
These people... comparing undemocratic institution that rules over people, and still has great power, to "wearing ties", is ridiculous. But for that matter - yes, even wearing a tie is not something that should be enforced, just because it's "a tradition".
Well, Its not really enforced, if a majority of a population wants to keep it, isnt it undemocratic to try and Cut it away? Also, it holds no power over you, so Why so against it?
@@magtinfal7908 I guess "soft power" and the ability to issue royal commands, to say nothing of being the head of a state church... No. It still needs to be abolished. All of them do.
@@magtinfal7908 Just watch a Black Rod ceremony for the Commons. It might all be a farce, but never forget the influence they have regardless. A minute of ceremony every now and again adds up, you know. Then there's Sandhurst. How many royals have gotten there because of blood rather than merit? My list of reasons for despising the concept of inherited political authority is too long and too counter to CZcams's censors.
To be fair, most of the time, when people refer to a dead relative looking down on them, they are usually just implying that the person is looking down due to being up in heaven.
Its easy to criticise, much harder to offer valid solutions. So we disolve the monarchy, so what? What will replace their legal function in parliament? Will we go towards the US style republic? What about issues like corruption and lobbying? It doesn't appear to me that those issues have been adequately addressed by other republics. Isn't it better to have a bad system for dealing with corruption than none at all? Maybe we don't need to copy the USA, but I don't see anybody suggesting reasonable alternatives.
The traditions they bring up aren't comparable in the slightest. We're mixing turtles, chameleons and crocodiles under the premise they're all reptiles.
Alex is definitely right on this one. They correctly point out that some traditions are pragmatic and are worth saving. But, it does not follow from this that all traditions are pragmatic and worthy of saving. The tradition of the monarchy is not worth saving, even supports are in incapable of creating coherent arguments for their position. But I am an American….
I love that you point out something so obvious and so agreeable and they just cannot accept it. They just have to point a finger at all these other things rather than agree with you. I'm so glad that you are having a voice in more media over there. I appreciate your candor and rational perspective.
It just shows how they are not willing to think critically or reason about the subject, it's not a matter of reason but "a tradition", like suggesting as if something is "a tradition" then is exemt of any kind of criticism.
@@fimbulInvierno How would it not? Ultracrepidarians vs actual experts... it would kinda have to, no? The UK is not a true monarchy, so it's a very bad example when discussing the actual purposes and functions of the system in question.
@@scaryperi3051 Because I've seen a lot of similar scenarios on similar themes, for example: when it's said that an atheist should debate a professional apologist or priest or similar, just to end saying basically the same arguments that are already debunked. So I don't think it would change that scenario at all for this specific theme, since it is all based on tradition and indirectly based on divine right.
@@fimbulInvierno Yes, but monarchism is not really comparable to religion in this context, is it? Government systems are not supernatural creations being peddled without evidence or reasoning like religious apologism does and apologists do. There are monarchies without the divine right of kings and even with constitutions--while still maintaining executive power, albeit not absolute. Now it sounds like you're straw manning the government type just because you've been exposed to one version of it, and a poor one at that.
Weird take to bring religion into it, but Catholics supposedly wouldn't recognize the validity of the British Monarchy since it separated from the Church and declared itself head of the Anglican Church.
He points this out, he knows what Harry meant but he thinks the phrase can be very ironic when you associate it with how the moncarchs think they're above others.
One person making a bad argument is not an indication that a good argument doesn't exist. All it tells you is that the person is bad at arguing. I seriously doubt any of the panelists care enough about the conversation, their jobs or their audience enough to take the debate seriously. I don't know who any of them are or why they're allowed on TV, but I'm guessing it's not for their slaient reasoning nor their ability to communicate clearly.
So let me get this straight: the best argument for continuing the monarchy is "well we've been doing it for a while now so we might as well keep doing it"? Look, I'm American and don't even pretend to understand British culture, but it seems like a pretty good idea to follow the rest of the western world and get rid of a system that was outdated a hundred years ago.
It would be far different if the monarchy ruled over them, but they have Parliament. The Royal Family live in luxury because of the concept of being paid to do charity work and volunteering. People say they're "a tourist attraction", but I think the buildings and properties are more of an attraction.
true except that the Commonwealth nations, such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to name a few regard the RF officially the same as the British in our constitutional monarchies. Canada to your north was formed by those who did not side with the rebellion out of loyalty to their king.
So should we end Christmas? Should we end democracy? We’ve been doing both for a while now. The rest of the western world is FUCKED. The weird thing is, all Nordic countries are MONARCHIES, and is some of the best countries in the world. I mean who would’ve thought? We just had the most elegant monarch loved by all danes abdicate, where people fucking cried. Dont tell me monarchy dont work.
@@gusgrizzel8397 Royal Family live in luxury because they have inherited wealth and authority. Charity work and volunteering is just a circus they perform to keep the masses happy.
And people like you who still don't understand the difference between Republicanism, Monarchy, and Democracy should definitely not be allowed to vote. People like you are the reason Democracy is rotting from within and the Greek philosophers rejected it the moment it came out.
Well done Alex 👏 As a Swiss citizen I can only shake my head 😂 In our founding myth, Wilhelm Tell refused to bow down to the symbol of the tyrant Habsburg, thus starting our century long history of people's democracy 😊🙋♀️
This man is all about money. In his country he is unwanted, here in America, he is a royal. Making millions out of the idiots that like to go back to medieval times. He is profiting from both worlds.
Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the messes, not some farcical ethroning ceremony... If the Brits wand a monarchy, they can have one. I maintained they would be better without, however.
most of us Brits have no interest in the royals or the "institution". personally, id strip them of all power and stuff them in a low-income council estate so they can see what actual life in the UK is like@@Deridus
Great points as always. It's a pitty those that criticise it can't get past the "pedantic" part. Monarchy is, always has been and always will be completely opposite to equality, all other issues aside.
Communism was literally the Russians answer to replace the monarchy, so I suppose you've got a better plan for what to do when we're done with the guillotines?
"We bow to the institution not the person" how revealing. I'm not sure what's worse, people who simply just like having a monarch and are unaware of the institution, or those who are actively aware of the monarchy as an institution and still choose to bow. I know its annoying these people speak over and interrupt Alex, however in doing so they reveal more and more about their views and how flawed they are.
They argue it both ways depending on what's more inconvenient at the time - the timeless but anachronistic institution, or the living but out of touch monarch.
Because they recognise the history of the institution as well as the ways in which it benefits them personally. People like the monarchy because they get something from it. If you want it to stop you need to demonstrate how the monarchy causes actual harm to yourself or others, otherwise there's no incentive for people to change when they are fully aware of the benefits already.
@@SineN0mine3 Not to mention all the alternatives are infinitely worse. "Monarchy is the worst form of government, except for all the others" - Churchill if he was a true Englishman.
Your RF are living like billionaires. They don't rule over you, they are just a rich family with titles. They are paid to do "charity work" and be a "tourist attraction". But they don't run the country at all. They wouldn't be rich if it weren't for the British people and the property and jewels they've inherited.
The classic appeal to tradition. People who get pissy about anti-royalists never seem to understand that we are not anti-tradition; we just don’t feel like tradition should deflect from reasonable criticism. Naming a bunch of innocuous traditions in response is completely redundant.
Sometimes traditions just need to fade away. Nothing wrong with that. It's cultural and civilizational shifting and progression. As a child when I was a Catholic I found it difficult and problematic to call a priest, Father. As an adult I always find it difficult to call a judge, Your Honor. Screw institutions for the sake of traditions. Screw traditions
Who ensures your rights? Rights are meaningless without an institutional authority which can ensure that they are upheld. Your rights all stop existing as soon as you enter a place without governmental rule. There are plenty of cities in the world where law and order are not the norm. People in these places are rarely concerned with their rights. The concept means nothing unless there's something to enforce it.
Are you sure? If the dead queen drove past your house in her ghost car (or maybe dead royalty would rather use ghost horses and carriage), would you really not get off your lounge to look out the window?
Obviously, wearing a tie and getting married are two completely comparable examples when talking about someone having 'Divine rights' over yours and everybody else's lives. They are not at all false equivalences.
@@Hungrycats1 tradition is nothing but peer pressure from dead people. so who gives a f**k what they think? also, there are many traditions we dont follow...so why do we have to follow one of the most ridiculous ones? ruled by a family of inbred, child molesting, free loaders just because some fictional fairy in a magic sky land said so? fuck them. kick them out. and at the very least ALL TAX payers should be allowed to opt out of paying for them...then we will see how long they last
Some people ( loads of them ) have the need to worship , bow and to be ruled by other privileged humans . And talk over others who have a very reasonable ( and very correct ) opposing views ..
Usually I'm on Alex's side but this was ridiculous. After somebody dies, literally anybody (royalty or not), 'look down' is an incredibly common phrase to use; it has nothing to do with hierarchy, only to do with the religious connotations of heaven.
According to tradition that woman shouldn’t be there. She should be at home taking care of her husband’s children and bearing as many of them as her body can manage. Why isn’t she respecting tradition?
Lots of traditions are harmful and cannot be defended purely because they are traditional. It doesn't mean anything. If a tradition serves a function, it can be evaluated differently.
How to win a debate:keep talking to prevent your opposition from forming arguements
from the Piers Morgan handbook on 'winning' debates
@@nicholasbain2835Muhammed Hijab also does that
@@nicholasbain2835hahahahaha opened the replies to say at least thats what piers does! 😂
More like just let them keep talking til they destroy themselves, seriously she just said shaking hands is equal to worshiping a dictator
I want to see someone in that situation yell "Should I just leave? Because you can easily have a conversation with yourself without me."
Do you wear a tie? She asks the man not wearing a tie.
Well apparently not! 😂
xD
I no longer wear ties as it is cultural appropriation.... I am not french so I shouldn't wear one😂
Why stop at the tie? Clothing in general, or gender appropriate attire at the very least ....
Yes we all love wearing a noose around our neck. Surely a sign of subservience.
"we bow to the position, not the person."
Great argument for a position you cannot take without being the right person.
An no actual reason offered other than, "because we always have."
@@RustyWalkerita because they are our or supposed to be our leaders
@@Nathan-rn7wlSo's my manager but I don't bow to them.
@@RustyWalker ok? he doesnt run the country
@@Nathan-rn7wl Follow the logic where it goes. My example is valid based on the argument provided.
P1. Leaders should be bowed to.
P2. My manager is a leader.
C. Therefore my manager should be bowed to.
I don't agree with premise 1 so the conclusion doesn't follow. I act as if the conclusion doesn't follow in my daily life. I don't bow to my manager. Therefore, it follows that the conclusion doesn't follow for any leaders if that's the only reason why people bow to them.
This is a perfect example of appeal to tradition
We fight war's for less of course not everyone supports all traditions but you don't have to all you have to do is respect to millions they are very important
@@davidevans3223millions have traditions of hating LGBTQ and women.
I will not show an inkling of respect for these people or the traditions they stand for.
Same goes for the monarchy. There is no reason to respect such an archaic system that elevates one family above not just other people but in many cases the law itself.
How can one stand for people being equal, and still support a monarchy?
@@davidevans3223 when the queen died millions lost access to incredibly important services and places because it's tradition to shut down those services
Respect goes both way, if your tradition impedes on my way of living i'm not going to respect it
@@davidevans3223there's a difference between 'respecting' someone's traditions, and a significant portion of the taxes you pay being used to support it.
@@tripweed you're just full of hate for other's born into a different privalige why don't you swap your life for someone born into Rwanda it's a suppose a far bigger drop but of course to you that must mean even more wrong to many having running water and food is living like a king
Shaking hands is a gesture of equality, not submission. Tradition is fine, forced subservience to someone by their right of birth is disgusting.
Good point that. Some traditions good. Others not so. Thanks.
@tonyschumacher-jones1540 Put it this way, I'm saying that tradition is irrelevant to the point. I only bring up handshakes and compare it to other traditions within context as a response to the woman in the video doing so. I don't think saying "but it's tradition" just wipes away all negativity affiliated with it otherwise.
Edit: I assume you meant that comment sarcastically but on the now-noticeable chance that you didn't, sorry lmao
The difference is these are rituals that are universally done by the common people and by the rich aristocrats. Praising someone due to their prescribed status is really strange
Maybe she meant when one party is the first to offer a handshake within etiquette
shaking hands is also a test of basic dexterity and to show you don't have a weapon. That is what i was told anyway when discussing its roots
well slavery is a tradition and it happened for centuries. That surely justifies it.
Millenia actually. Many millenia.
Widespread violence & crime have happened for practically all of history- it must be the ideal. Let us strive to be a wretch upon the Earth & all life!
🤦🏽♀️
I also think it particularly funny that a woman was so invested in appealing to tradition but I don't wanna get into how many traditions would not really make her happy to try to keep, as a woman. Unless she thinks her life is less important than a tie, which to bootlickers I'm never sure if it's clear.
Yeah maybe we should just “run with it”.
Not in the west thanks to the British empire the international slave trader's all over the world have been stopped but outside the Christian world real slaves not modern day slaves there's more than any other time in history.
Everyone in the UK is born with different privaliges only the royals comes with duties and the majority support them so it's evil to remove them that's what dictator do
It’s not a ridiculous tradition, it’s a condescending one.
Both? Both!
Nothing is more important than culture and heritage nothing at all most people are willing to at least risk their lives for it if you don't have it you have nothing the royals have no power many obligations and make millions happy as long as they have majority support you'd have to be an evil dictator to remove them
And she had the audacity to compare a handshake to a bow 🤣
Not mutually exclusive :)
Being offended by irrelevant sht is much more ridiculous.
Let me just talk over Alex as he offers reasonable justification for what he said. Can't have that shit! It makes sense, and that terrifies me!
Always. Every single time. Thought I was watching piers Morgan for a second
But it was so uncouth of Alex to be critical of those inbred elitist toffs.
"Stop it patrick, you're scaring him"
@@stinkygoat2686Underrated comment
Tradition is often the opposite of common sense. It’s what you do despite there being no reason to do it
Never have I seen so many people clutch pearls in unison
Pearl clutching has got to be one of the most hilarious idioms out there lmao
You probably never imagined you’d end up talking about this subject so much. I love it though
So a country needs to look up to someone who's only qualification is the correct sperm and egg happened to meet? 🤔
One would question the word correct. Apart from that spot on.
She did a great job keeping this country together fella
@@dennisgoatimer1079that’s not really the argument though, is it? no one is accusing the queen of having been a bad ruler, but rather questioning the system that made her ruler in the first place
@@liamosborne6859 The system is perfect fella without it you would have to wait around every single time one of them dies and by the time that happens the tyrannical dictator can't be stopped like Germany in the 30s when President Von Hindenburg died. Plus it's stability in this trying times that many people look up to. Just look at the Christmas Speech during COVID and how that did help people mentally.
@@dennisgoatimer1079 man you are so condescending with this fella talk
'we kind of run with it and it sort of works'. i have nothing more to add
Amazing right. Hell! I know a lot of folks with that thought process. I just wanna shake em,haha wake up people that’s crazy talk. “That’s just the way it is”type shit, kills me. Glad! I’m not the only one who caught that, sure is reassuring haha😂
@@joshjackson678Its a good system without we would be worse of
Typical collectivist idealism, lol.
I love that he backpedaled to that without Alex even really responding
@@obitouchiha6439feels more like the denialism than idealism
"I must of forgotten mine today!" Hitchen Feelings LOL
I know I died at that remark 😂😭
Brilliant😂
I applaud your patience here my goodness they never let you get a word in
Because we dont give jerkoffs like him the time to speak.
It's like a religion. Don't you dare insult the institute of power! Crazy
Isn't it. These anti monarchists with their refusal to consider themselves lesser than the king by virtue of birth
well i like to point out that the declaration of human rights and the constitution both over - ride god laws.
the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment, we didn't vote for god or a king.
@@HarryNicNicholasThat's true but not everyone is American, 1st amendment means nothing for me
Well, isn't the monarch the head of the church of England?
@@redwire6315Only because a former wide load royal threw a tantrum and wanted to be able to sleep around unchallenged. Funny how there's a repeating historical theme in these people of tantrum throwing for self gain.
Oh yes wearing a tie is same as being told you are subjects of a fellow human who is given devine right to rule over you by virtue of birth
They’re so brainwashed and they’ll never understand that. The indoctrination begins at birth so it’s really not their fault.
Lmao
Thee don't rule over you. That's the main crux here.
It is largely symbolic. The king has no political power.
and he's not even wearing a tie 😂😂
Are you referring to Judaic Ideology or British royalty? Lol
Why do they even get offended? The woman in the clip is ridiculous
people love being offended, in fact the smaller the brain....
The woman is offended because if she wasn’t offended then she wouldn’t be able to think of anything else to say.
I think it was a guy in the clip. I believe it's James Hewitt's lad.
@@fleurdanon did they just assume, they invited a random lad? The monarchy is a joke. We have one too in Denmark
The men are offended too.🙄
The smug a-holes loudly speaking over Alex only make the royalists look more ridiculous and expidite their doom. Good job!
:p
Royalists aren't dumb.
We all have birth and genetic privileges, some have more, some have less.
Every single person, including Alex, is where he/she is mostly because of the genetic lottery. If it weren't for the lucky crossing over and good genes from parents, they wouldn't be what they are now.
Everyone also has non gene related birth privileges. Look at history, the average person has almost never become the leader of a nation. Most often, they are children of rich and powerful people.
Monarchy isn't as stupid as Republicans claim, it's just that you guys rarely ever debate with actual Monarchists or Monarchist scholars.
@@holyromanemperor420 The funniest part about your comment is that you seem to be serious.
Monarchism is dead, deal with it. Or don't and keep larping as "Holyromanemperor420". You do you
“I wasn’t just trying to be funny (although I was trying to do that), but I …” is such a great thing in a discussion like that, very disarming
If you don't mind me asking, what was he alluding to here?
(English is not my first language, and I am terribly sorry if I inconvenienced you)
@@shahdhussein4652Looking down from heaven (as in: she’s dead, and now looks from the heavens), as well as “looking down on someone (who is socially beneath you).”
@@shahdhussein4652bro already speaking british 🤯
@@filipedias7284Are you sure he isn't British? His apologising for inconvenience potentially caused is spot on, I could swear to the lord above (should one exist, which it doesn't) that he is totally British.
really? I thought he was implying she was looking up (from hell)
I feel like Alex is kinda being a shit here. The Monarchy is ridiculous and out dated and fair criticism of it is completely warranted. But he didn't need to go about it this way. When he is intelligent enough to know full well that is not what Harry meant by "looking down on us." He is just being a provacatour.
He admits that he's trying to be funny, but it's not like they let him elaborate or that he doesn't have a point. He's saying the dude had a very poor choice of words.
@@GiubileiFernandoit's not a poor choice of words though, it's a perfectly normal way to express that somebody has passed.
It's actually completely unreasonable to interpret a personal expression of grief as intended to make a convincing argument in favour of a world view.
It's pedantry, plain and simple. It's fine if they point was to make a joke, but it wasn't, it was to pursuade us of an argument. Since it feels like the joke is at our expense, since clearly nobody else interpreted the phrase in that way, it fails to convince the panel or the audience.
In general it's considered poor form to make jokes when somebody is grieving. If you are very close, it could be seen as trying to cheer somebody up but when you're not even in the same room as them it's just coming off as callous.
You don't have to start singing hymns when a Christian is grieving but it's absolutely not the time to debate the existence of an afterlife.
that’s pedantic 😂. it’s like they’re too stuffy to even appreciate a well timed joke.
The same people harp on about how 'the left can't take a joke' and yet here they are
@@fleurdanon poor taste how
@@fleurdanon "She's looking down on all of us" THAT is a joke in poor taste.
@@karlschmied6218Royalty is in poor taste. Are you being intentionally ironic?
@@fleurdanon Every can be made fun of, get over yourself.
Wasn’t Harry talking about figuratively “looking down on us” from heaven? Or am I missing something here?
Its what we learn as children. Heaven is up in thr sky.
He was, that was part of the joke
@@fleurdanonBut then the would be no point to the yoke... Seems you didnt get the yoke in the first place and now wont admit it..
@fleurdanon Someone in that position has the right to be offended but it does nothing to change the fact that Alex has the more important right to make the joke in the first place. Many people in that position wouldn't like it? So what?
Harry is a moron. He thinks his mother is a living spirit and he thinks his wife has magic powers.
Decided a long time ago I’d never bow to another human being. My own personal tradition. 🙏
I'd bow if I was in Japan and the other person was bowing as well as a sign that we are respecting eachother as equals
I once worked in a place that receivec a royal visit.
I bowed out - if I clearly was to get no work done that day, why be there at all? I mean - I didn't even have any warts that needed curing!
One of my pathetic co-workers summed up my absence in a way that impressed even me. "But... but... what if people find out?"
No slavery worse than the kind we volunteer for.
I have hind legs. Even in old age, I reserve the right to stand on them...
I bow to nobody No god no master
@@spacewizard69you must be the ultimate sigma 😂
@@BobbyB24601 hell yeah , humans and puny gods
I like how Alex starts his sentence 10 times because they won’t stop interrupting him 😂
I am grateful that my English, Irish, and Scottish ancestors left those lands to immigrate to America centuries ago.
Mine too as they ended up in Canada which has the same RF. Some of them got stuck in the states some escaped to the great white north.
yeah we might have to put up with pompous royal nonsense...but at least 100% of our children survive a school day
"we kinda run with it and it sorta works" okay, but can i question it? Doesnt mean you need to change it, but god forbid i question tradition.
Right.
Tradition should be respected to a certain degree, but it's not a religion. Questioning Tradition is not a sin.
It's not like we wiwloose all cultural values just because someone questions the value of aristocrats in the 21.century.
People also "ran with" (some still do) sl@very and it "sorta worked." Just because something is a tradition doesn't mean it's good or should be defended. Appeal to tradition is one of the most well-known and transparent logical fallacies.
@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280yes but you're not offering us a fair choice. There's no world in which you can dissolve the monarchy without replacing it.
The question isn't what's wrong with the monarchy, the question is what system do you think is so much better that we should invest the huge effort towards changing to it.
How much of the government's money do you want to spend rewriting the laws and how are you going to make sure that it's fair?
When all is said and done, what tangible benefit does that new system offer that's worth all the hassle?
It's simply easier to not change unless you have a better argument that "tradition bad". Because capitalism bad and socialism bad and everything bad if you want it to be.
As a Brit this is really upsetting. A panel of educated individuals who still think like Bronze Age sheep herders. Well done Alex, keep fighting for intellectual freedom.
The people support the RF as millionaires with their taxes, and they don't even rule over them. They are a tourist attraction, they "work" doing volunteer work. But who gets paid like that to do volunteering and charity work??
@@gusgrizzel8397 the most common rebuttal is they bring in tourism and thus, income for the whole country. I have never found this convincing and I still don’t believe it’s true either. Regardless if it was, I don’t think it’s worth it on a moral nor ethical level.
@@TheStanDudley Agree. Any income they bring in is cancelled by the Brit's paying taxes to support them. Allegedly Charles got 500 millions, but is overall worth 24 billion, when the Queen died. They're just rich people. They don't rule over anyone.
@@TheStanDudleyBut Why be so against it? Its not harming anyone, But to be fair, the UK has a greater deal of space between Rich and poor, so money is a huge thing. But the monarchy holds no real power, and stands as a thing for people to unify over. I dont get Why people want a boring republic where the head of State changes every 4 or 8’th year, just to get someone like Boris in who seemed like a Raving lunatic.
@@TheStanDudleyas a tourist, I’d actively avoid anything to do with the royal family. Theater in London was fantastic though!
These people... comparing undemocratic institution that rules over people, and still has great power, to "wearing ties", is ridiculous. But for that matter - yes, even wearing a tie is not something that should be enforced, just because it's "a tradition".
You're aware the monarchy doesn't actually rule over the population, right? The king or queen no longer has political authority
The monarchy doesn't even rule over anyone. They just volunteer at charity events.
Well, Its not really enforced, if a majority of a population wants to keep it, isnt it undemocratic to try and Cut it away? Also, it holds no power over you, so Why so against it?
Ties are stupid and absurd, yes. But not offensive in the way the royal family is
@@SigFigNewtonI would argue that ties are more dangerous and far more upsetting when caught up in a lathe or woodchipper.
End ALL caste systems. Down with the Monarchy!
They don't even marry other royals anymore.
The monarchy that has literally no power or authority of any kind?
@@magtinfal7908 I guess "soft power" and the ability to issue royal commands, to say nothing of being the head of a state church...
No. It still needs to be abolished. All of them do.
@Deridus What royal commands? They don't do anything lol. I can understand if you think it should be abolished because of how useless they are
@@magtinfal7908 Just watch a Black Rod ceremony for the Commons. It might all be a farce, but never forget the influence they have regardless. A minute of ceremony every now and again adds up, you know.
Then there's Sandhurst. How many royals have gotten there because of blood rather than merit?
My list of reasons for despising the concept of inherited political authority is too long and too counter to CZcams's censors.
To be fair, most of the time, when people refer to a dead relative looking down on them, they are usually just implying that the person is looking down due to being up in heaven.
She ain't in heaven
@@deethwarrior I don't really know much about her, so I can't really agree or disagree with you.
Alex knows, he was just being a dick, regardless of how justified his criticism of the monarchy is
Shaking hands is not the same is having to submit to royal people who are in no way better than a regular man
Alex is way too intelligent to even participate in a debate with such royal fools..
Its easy to criticise, much harder to offer valid solutions.
So we disolve the monarchy, so what? What will replace their legal function in parliament? Will we go towards the US style republic?
What about issues like corruption and lobbying? It doesn't appear to me that those issues have been adequately addressed by other republics.
Isn't it better to have a bad system for dealing with corruption than none at all?
Maybe we don't need to copy the USA, but I don't see anybody suggesting reasonable alternatives.
@@SineN0mine3 So the royal assholes are experts in dealing with corruption? Wow that's precious. LMAO 😂
The traditions they bring up aren't comparable in the slightest. We're mixing turtles, chameleons and crocodiles under the premise they're all reptiles.
I think it's the atheist in us. The thought of bowing, worshipping, and/or submitting to someone else is just weak and creepy.
Unironic "Amen'" from me, a *very* confident atheist.
It’s disrespectful to most humans to bow to a random person called queen.
Since I don’t like being disrespectful, I have disdain for royalty.
Yes atheists are immune to being oppressed, ask the communists.
Alex is definitely right on this one. They correctly point out that some traditions are pragmatic and are worth saving. But, it does not follow from this that all traditions are pragmatic and worthy of saving. The tradition of the monarchy is not worth saving, even supports are in incapable of creating coherent arguments for their position. But I am an American….
I love that you point out something so obvious and so agreeable and they just cannot accept it. They just have to point a finger at all these other things rather than agree with you. I'm so glad that you are having a voice in more media over there. I appreciate your candor and rational perspective.
It just shows how they are not willing to think critically or reason about the subject, it's not a matter of reason but "a tradition", like suggesting as if something is "a tradition" then is exemt of any kind of criticism.
Alex should debate with an actual, educated monarchist, not just random people who know next to nothing about the subject.
@@scaryperi3051could be, however I don't think it would do much a difference thou.
@@fimbulInvierno How would it not? Ultracrepidarians vs actual experts... it would kinda have to, no?
The UK is not a true monarchy, so it's a very bad example when discussing the actual purposes and functions of the system in question.
@@scaryperi3051
Because I've seen a lot of similar scenarios on similar themes, for example: when it's said that an atheist should debate a professional apologist or priest or similar, just to end saying basically the same arguments that are already debunked.
So I don't think it would change that scenario at all for this specific theme, since it is all based on tradition and indirectly based on divine right.
@@fimbulInvierno Yes, but monarchism is not really comparable to religion in this context, is it? Government systems are not supernatural creations being peddled without evidence or reasoning like religious apologism does and apologists do.
There are monarchies without the divine right of kings and even with constitutions--while still maintaining executive power, albeit not absolute. Now it sounds like you're straw manning the government type just because you've been exposed to one version of it, and a poor one at that.
Never let the reasonable person finish a sentence, everyone gang up and talk over him...
Don’t expect reasonableness from most people.
Expect it least of all from people who have been taught that they have some kind of divine right to rule
Show hosts: "THIS CRAZY THING ISN'T ACTUALLY CRAZY, BECAUSE THERE ARE *OTHER* CRAZY THINGS WE DO AS WELL!"
I am a Catholic and I find your videos on the monarchy very true and funny 😂
Weird take to bring religion into it, but Catholics supposedly wouldn't recognize the validity of the British Monarchy since it separated from the Church and declared itself head of the Anglican Church.
@@Dan_Caponeit's not weird to bring religion into it at all. Alex is mostly known as an atheist rather than an anti-monarchist.
I am amazed how everyone just tries to interrupt you. Are they so afraid of what you're going to say? A rhetoric question...
He didn't mean it like that. He obviously just meant looking down from heaven.
Exactly. I don't believe heaven exists and neither does Alex, but it was obvious what Harry meant.
He points this out, he knows what Harry meant but he thinks the phrase can be very ironic when you associate it with how the moncarchs think they're above others.
It was a joke not a serious point jesus christ
@@GiubileiFernando Yeah, it was a fair comment.
@@matt69nice I never said it wasn’t a joke.
We need to start questioning these traditions, not pass them on for the sake of it. End the monarchy.
One more reason I'm glad to be an American: don't have to watch British TV.
Don't have to watch American TV either. God bless America...
Ah yes, the fallacy of appeal to tradition. You couldn’t watch a finer demonstration. 😂
One person making a bad argument is not an indication that a good argument doesn't exist.
All it tells you is that the person is bad at arguing.
I seriously doubt any of the panelists care enough about the conversation, their jobs or their audience enough to take the debate seriously.
I don't know who any of them are or why they're allowed on TV, but I'm guessing it's not for their slaient reasoning nor their ability to communicate clearly.
So let me get this straight: the best argument for continuing the monarchy is "well we've been doing it for a while now so we might as well keep doing it"? Look, I'm American and don't even pretend to understand British culture, but it seems like a pretty good idea to follow the rest of the western world and get rid of a system that was outdated a hundred years ago.
It would be far different if the monarchy ruled over them, but they have Parliament. The Royal Family live in luxury because of the concept of being paid to do charity work and volunteering. People say they're "a tourist attraction", but I think the buildings and properties are more of an attraction.
true except that the Commonwealth nations, such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to name a few regard the RF officially the same as the British in our constitutional monarchies. Canada to your north was formed by those who did not side with the rebellion out of loyalty to their king.
@@timothyirwin8974 Britain was stupid to give up its colonies and empire.
So should we end Christmas? Should we end democracy? We’ve been doing both for a while now. The rest of the western world is FUCKED. The weird thing is, all Nordic countries are MONARCHIES, and is some of the best countries in the world. I mean who would’ve thought? We just had the most elegant monarch loved by all danes abdicate, where people fucking cried. Dont tell me monarchy dont work.
@@gusgrizzel8397 Royal Family live in luxury because they have inherited wealth and authority. Charity work and volunteering is just a circus they perform to keep the masses happy.
Defending an archaic symbol of tyranny and oppression as just a "wacky tradition" is actually hilarious.
He is 100% correct, the monarchy should be got rid of and the people should get to vote for a leader.
And people like you who still don't understand the difference between Republicanism, Monarchy, and Democracy should definitely not be allowed to vote. People like you are the reason Democracy is rotting from within and the Greek philosophers rejected it the moment it came out.
Well done Alex 👏 As a Swiss citizen I can only shake my head 😂 In our founding myth, Wilhelm Tell refused to bow down to the symbol of the tyrant Habsburg, thus starting our century long history of people's democracy 😊🙋♀️
And then refusing to do anything about the Nazis while storing their stolen riches! How glorious!
Long live the Swiss! Much love from the American West Coast.
Well you were being pedantic
Mufasa:"Everything the light Touches is Our Kingdom"
Simba:"Wow"
Mufasa:"But not the UK,they have Cosplay Royals there"
This man is all about money. In his country he is unwanted, here in America, he is a royal.
Making millions out of the idiots that like to go back to medieval times.
He is profiting from both worlds.
Royalists trying not to look ridiculous challenge (impossible)
Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the messes, not some farcical ethroning ceremony... If the Brits wand a monarchy, they can have one. I maintained they would be better without, however.
most of us Brits have no interest in the royals or the "institution". personally, id strip them of all power and stuff them in a low-income council estate so they can see what actual life in the UK is like@@Deridus
Twisting a comment about someone looking down on us from Heaven into a negative comment is ridiculous
@@igorlopes7589I disagree. changing the subject with a pun while pointing out the ridiculous of others isn’t ridiculous
They would look less ridiculous if they were legitimate hairs, like Simon Abney Hastings.
British Panels when you criticize an outdated hierarchy:
( •̀ ᴖ •́ )
British panels when you twist the positive words from a grandson about his grandmother into a anti-monarchy jab.
@@j0kerclash289the monarchy deserves more frequent jabs
@@j0kerclash289can’t think of much else that I harbor disdain for about you brits
@@SigFigNewton sure, but doing it at that moment was inconsiderate and rude.
@@SigFigNewtonPreferably with a specific brand of the coof vax?
Marriage gives you all sorts of legal advantages. Admiring royalty does not.
Excellent zinger, Alex. Hitchens would approve of that wit.
She blundered there asking you if you wear a tie
really grasping at straws isnt she
wearing a tie is obviously the same has having a family who rules because some f**king sky-nonce said so
Get em, Alex. 😂
Imagine simping for a royal family in the year of 2024
Great points as always. It's a pitty those that criticise it can't get past the "pedantic" part.
Monarchy is, always has been and always will be completely opposite to equality, all other issues aside.
Communism under Stalin was a "tradition" and sort of worked too 😂
Something I never tired of reminding people: It was conservative Communists who tried to overthrow Yeltsin.
Communism was literally the Russians answer to replace the monarchy, so I suppose you've got a better plan for what to do when we're done with the guillotines?
"We bow to the institution not the person" how revealing.
I'm not sure what's worse, people who simply just like having a monarch and are unaware of the institution, or those who are actively aware of the monarchy as an institution and still choose to bow. I know its annoying these people speak over and interrupt Alex, however in doing so they reveal more and more about their views and how flawed they are.
They argue it both ways depending on what's more inconvenient at the time - the timeless but anachronistic institution, or the living but out of touch monarch.
Well, to be fair, we do the exact same thing with democracy.
Carl Schmitt rolling in his grave rn.
Because they recognise the history of the institution as well as the ways in which it benefits them personally.
People like the monarchy because they get something from it. If you want it to stop you need to demonstrate how the monarchy causes actual harm to yourself or others, otherwise there's no incentive for people to change when they are fully aware of the benefits already.
@@SineN0mine3 Not to mention all the alternatives are infinitely worse. "Monarchy is the worst form of government, except for all the others" - Churchill if he was a true Englishman.
The royalist has no argument, so resorts to blathering on to avoid having to answer the other side.
Why I never bother with TV “debates.”
This claim of knowledge makes Harry a liar.
There's no way around that fact - unless he can prove it.
Don't hold your breath.
The UK 🇬🇧 needs to rid itself of the Royal family.
All of their so-called nobles, really. It's nothing but a caste system and must therefore be ended.
No it doesn't, what we need is more patriotism and our empire back
Your RF are living like billionaires. They don't rule over you, they are just a rich family with titles. They are paid to do "charity work" and be a "tourist attraction". But they don't run the country at all. They wouldn't be rich if it weren't for the British people and the property and jewels they've inherited.
@@Hungrycats1 as a Brit, we should dismantle the royal institution and fuck them off.
bunch of inbred, spoiled, child raping nonces the lot of them
What would this change for better? Nothing. If a change doesn't bring benefits it shouldn't happen at all
Who actually watches this?
You apparently.
Me
You me and God
@@harman1957Which one, Zeus?
@@TheAxeterBa'al Hadaad, in my case.
Lol... Equating any of this to the tradition of "wearing a tie"
The classic appeal to tradition. People who get pissy about anti-royalists never seem to understand that we are not anti-tradition; we just don’t feel like tradition should deflect from reasonable criticism. Naming a bunch of innocuous traditions in response is completely redundant.
I find it interesting that they didn't say "Looking up at us"
She’s comparing wearing a tie to submission to a monarchy. 🤦🏻♀️ 😂
Sometimes traditions just need to fade away. Nothing wrong with that. It's cultural and civilizational shifting and progression.
As a child when I was a Catholic I found it difficult and problematic to call a priest, Father. As an adult I always find it difficult to call a judge, Your Honor.
Screw institutions for the sake of traditions. Screw traditions
since the declaration of human rights i'm afraid no one is above anyone anymore, not even god.
Birthright predates human rights
That's one more reason to get rid of it. Birthright, not human rights.
Monarchy is a caste system and should be dispensed with.
@@Deridus let's wait until someone comes up with a better system before we do that.
@@chesterdonnelly1212 thats the dumbest comment ever
Who ensures your rights?
Rights are meaningless without an institutional authority which can ensure that they are upheld.
Your rights all stop existing as soon as you enter a place without governmental rule. There are plenty of cities in the world where law and order are not the norm. People in these places are rarely concerned with their rights. The concept means nothing unless there's something to enforce it.
I always said "if the queen drove past my house I would not get off my lounge to look out the window." Now she is gone, I feel no different about it.
Are you sure? If the dead queen drove past your house in her ghost car (or maybe dead royalty would rather use ghost horses and carriage), would you really not get off your lounge to look out the window?
I might give the middle finger or use a fog horn. Does that count?
I love this guy more and more, just seems to be spot on on everything
Obviously, wearing a tie and getting married are two completely comparable examples when talking about someone having 'Divine rights' over yours and everybody else's lives.
They are not at all false equivalences.
She's not looking at anyone, she is dead.
I felt such joy in watching my distant Irish kinsmen singing, "Lizzy's in box."
All caste systems must end, especially monarchies.
It was pedantic, it was funny, and it was 100% correct
Marriage is another bad argument. Have you ever heard of divorce?!
I don't think handshakes, weddings or wearing a tie scrounge off the taxpayer...
Abolish the monarchy
Yes.
*Hear, hear!*
Never, you cant abolish a whole country's tradition and culture, you anti-monarchists are insane
@@Hungrycats1 We may be insane, but we aren't wrong.
@@Hungrycats1 tradition is nothing but peer pressure from dead people. so who gives a f**k what they think? also, there are many traditions we dont follow...so why do we have to follow one of the most ridiculous ones?
ruled by a family of inbred, child molesting, free loaders just because some fictional fairy in a magic sky land said so?
fuck them. kick them out.
and at the very least ALL TAX payers should be allowed to opt out of paying for them...then we will see how long they last
“you claim to be against an unjustifiable monarchy in the modern day, yet wear clothes. Curious. 🧐“
Some people ( loads of them ) have the need to worship , bow and to be ruled by other privileged humans .
And talk over others who have a very reasonable ( and very correct ) opposing views ..
Usually I'm on Alex's side but this was ridiculous. After somebody dies, literally anybody (royalty or not), 'look down' is an incredibly common phrase to use; it has nothing to do with hierarchy, only to do with the religious connotations of heaven.
If heaves real she ain't there
That something is "traditional" doesn't make it right
Still bowing even after death 😂
"I must have forgotten mine today." I love the humor.
If their only defence is 'its a tradition based on things we don't believe' then they've already lost.
They literally don't even think, they just voice whatever comes to mind...
The whole time Alex is just trying to get a word in between their babbling.
Goddamn I didn’t think I could love Alex anymore!!!! 😂
According to tradition that woman shouldn’t be there. She should be at home taking care of her husband’s children and bearing as many of them as her body can manage. Why isn’t she respecting tradition?
Lots of traditions are harmful and cannot be defended purely because they are traditional. It doesn't mean anything. If a tradition serves a function, it can be evaluated differently.
I was thinking exactly the same. And to then compare it to wearing a tie etc...
Haha that was a good one.
I don't get it
😂😂😂😂😂 I love it when the peasant get defensive over the mocking of idols! Great remark too!
I don't wear a tie. I prefer not to shake hands. I bow to no one. Tradition is a pile of crap.
He killed her twice with this sentence 😂
if i were religious i'd assume shes looking up
I love this guy lmao, I still can't believe a modern country still has a royal family
3ppl shouting words to one man is the perfect way to echo chamber yourself
It's tradition, their family was given a sword by an Angel. We got to respect that😂😂😂😂 this is insane