NAD C 3050 Integrated Amplifier.
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
4:42 - Dirac Live
9:44 - How Does it Sound?
12:26 - Data
16:45 - Summary
____________________
All of my tests are conducted using KLIPPEL Hardware and Software. KLIPPEL is an innovative leader in providing unique test equipment for electro-acoustical transducers and audio systems. Founded in 1997 by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel, the novel techniques developed for control and measurement systems of loudspeakers and other transducers are the result of over 30 years of fundamental research. This provides more accurate physical models of loudspeakers, micro-speakers and headphones valid for both small and large amplitudes. The focus is on revealing the root causes of signal distortion and defects and giving practical indications for improvements in design and manufacturing of audio products. For information on KLIPPEL products, please visit their site below:
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”reticent” = hesitant
“Preamp” = integrated amp
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😂, I didn’t even notice those issues
I bought the NAD C298 because it has the NAD M23's Eigentakt:
1) it's less $
2) it has more features like adjustable knob gain, RCA loopout for 2 subwoofers, trigger output to my 2 subwoofers
I want the clarity. I add richness via my Cardas Parsec RCA interconnect cables.
I upgraded from a Parasound 2125v2 (already sounds really good).
Apple Music
Ever since joining Mr Erin's Patreon all my frequencies below 500 hz have been behaving more holistically
That makes sense. It’s what we in the industry call “good karma”. 😂😂😂
Hello YT algorithm. I am supporting Erin.
Awesome thank you!
That's cool. But why do so many people have that four (4) digit number following their screen names, please? Thanks.
@@TriAmpHiFi That's to make each registered username unique. CZcams did change my username automatically and this is a necessary method for database management.
Same
@@tugbars4690
. Thanks. Do you think there are other tugbars here?
"Chocolaty bass" ...LOL! Really, for a second, I thought Erin went to 'the dark side'.
😂😂
Dark chocolatey bass
Does that mean he only hears white chocolatey bass?
I love that you did a review on an amplifier. You're so informative and detailed on what you hear with your speakers that it's awesome watching you talk about an amplifier. Love it
I appreciate that!
You are rocking my dude! I think you will
Hit 100k subscribers this year! This seems to be an excellent excellent unit!
Thanks! I seriously doubt I’ll crack 60k this year. But I’m focusing on providing honest reviews about stuff I think you all will enjoy. So we shall see!
@@ErinsAudioCornerThanks for this great review Erin. I agree with the above comment slightly altered . You definitely deserve 100K subscribers, and I hope you get there, but don’t expect in next year, as you realistically said. I’m 71 now and an avid “Musicophile”, not an Audiophile. I do love listening to music on decent gear and always have to look for real Value. I do a lot of research when considering a new purchase over $200. Budget & circumstances. Anyway I consider myself a well-informed consumer, especially with audio gear. I now trust your reviews more than any others because I’m an ear test guy, but like to see the data. You are no doubt a man of true integrity. I’ve never once thought you were selling out or schilling for sponsors. The only reason I mention it is I’ve heard you address it briefly in several videos. I’m sure a multitude of others feel the same. Just trying to encourage you to keep on keeping on. After watching so many of your videos, I’m always shocked you don’t have more subscribers. I’m extremely confident you will continue to grow exponentially as you keep operating as you have been. It takes awhile for word-of-mouth to catch up. Plus with all you’re going through, I’m surprised you’re still producing vids as you’re prepping for a move. Best of luck to you young brother! And paramount is your dedication to your daughter. I raised three as a single father. Much respect! 👊 😎👍🏼
I really like you mixing other reviews of Amps as opposed to only speakers. It's a nice mix. Was always looking at this amp. Nice overview.
Amazing channel, I recently discovered your Audio Corner, and I am learning each and every time. Thanks Erin, great job!
Awesome! Thank you!
Great review! With amplifiers being practically transparent nowadays you're finding ways to still give a thorough review on features and aesthetics which are what really differentiates the equipment side without resorting to audiophile buzzwords.
Thanks. That’s what I’m trying to do.
pretty cool classic looking receiver, having easy connections to my TV and Streamer is a huge plus!
Definitely! Modern features. Classic look. Awesomeness.
I was starting to worry about you at “chocolatey bass.” 😮 Glad you cleared that up.🍫
Haha. Gotcha!
'I don't need it and that's the problem' - good enough for me. Very good recommendation 😅
You did it again 👏. Thank you Erin. Because of this review, I found NAD C399 that supports two active subwoofers, has built in crossover and in worst case provide dirac. I started fully analog but I have no chance with any kind of treatment to controll base in my room. Thanks to you I see the light in tunnel. New NAD is on the way.
The one-tone vs multi-tone is very interesting when compared to wiim amp, thanks for this one!
Thanks for the meaningful and honest feedback.
Great review Erin! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Great review Erin, nice to have a no nonsense approach. It would be really cool if you could do a comparison of a really cheap or relatively high distortion amp versus a decent well performing low distortion amp (cheap amazon amp versus purifi for instance), but use the klippel and same speaker for each amp. This way we could see how much amplifiers and electronics actually matter.
Hope to see more of these electronic equipment reviews. This integrated is pretty nice in my eyes and offers a lot. I love that it has a crossover as well as Dirac. I used an Arcam SA30 integrated for a little while which had Dirac Live and I did like Dirac. But using a subwoofer with it and then having to run the mains full range was a little tricky getting everything to integrate smoothly. Had the same issues using Dirac on a minidsp DDRC-24D. Being able to cut off the lows on the main speakers & then using Dirac with this NAD is an outstanding feature. HDMI eArc is great for TV app music listening and stereo TV as well. This NAD isn't very expensive and seems like a good buy. Pretty cool looking too. Nice piece for the living room.
Great review, Erin! ❤
Thanks, brother!
Was lucky enough to get the limited version of this amp when they first released it. I bought it for the retro style AND the fact that it came with the BluOS module, which I think is a necessity. The streaming capabilities combined with Dirac Live makes this integrated shine. I have mine paired with Wharfedale Lintons and the sound is wonderful (and looks awesome). Not sure what size what size of room you would need for the 100 watts this thing puts out to not be enough. This amp rocks!
That seems like a fantastic combination with the Lintons just in regards to their classic looks on top of their performance.
Enjoy.
Hello, another really interesting review, thank you. Speaking of class D amps, I would suggest that you take a look at some of the Fosi equipment, I am running a V3 and Elac B52's as well as a Fosi 2120C with small KEF uni-q speakers. Good sound all around.
Take care.
I'm actually impressed, even for the price, never been a NAD fan. Might try this though!
Cool! Good nostalgic vibes. My very first amp was a 302 (25W@8O) that I bought (~1990?) with my own money, being ~12 at the time 🤘🏼😎 My dad had to come along with the car since traveling from central Stockholm to the suburb with an amplifier under my arm wasn't really going to happen. It probably needs new caps today but it performed great last time I had it doing some rock'n'roll with my kids
I think this one got the looks, features (and performance) quite a few new/younger dudes with LPs under their arm are looking for. Hopefully it'll be as good built as some of the previous amps and receivers från NAD. They haven't been the best on the software side but seems to be improving.
Great review on a great looking amp. I’d love to see a review of a tube amp or high impedance output amp like you might see in a Macintosh. Curious to see what their frequency response would be like under a complex or low impedance load.
Love the look of this, would love it even more if there was an olive green throwback version - I love the look NAD was once known for
But before the 1980s green look was this color
Great channel and I hope You will reach 100k subscribers very soon.
Thanks, great review! Would've been a perfect place to go into a little discussion regarding filter slopes when adding a sub or two :). I am so happy that amplifiers like the Wiim and this one, with high pass filters, are finally being produced (and that you check them out)! I feel like I've been waiting for decades for them to arrive. Just adding a subwoofer without being able to HPF the speakers is not ideal. But in my limited experience, I would want to be able to adjust the HPF slope depending on how close to the natural rolloff of my speakers I try to cross over to the sub(s), and the slope of the rolloff of my actual speakers in my room. To me it would seem that the THX approach with 24 LPF and 12 HPF would actually be better for most people than this seemingly symmetrical approach.
Great review Erin. I have the NAD C 3050 driving Totem speakers and a subwoofer. I am very happy with it. Do you know (or speculate) how this amplifier would perform driving 15 ohm speakers (ls3 5/a) ?
Hey Erin. As someome with the NAD M23 and Klipsch Cornwalls. I can confirm NAD has a dead quiet noise floor. Even on their C series that I have tested..dead quiet!
Can confirm, I own the C 3050 LE and it looks really good. Even my mother could tell the difference toggling Dirac Live on and off. It doesn't have a 2ohm nominal number, but it actually has a number for instantaneous power @ 2ohm (300w!).
Great video as always, I was getting really worried when you said chocolatey bass, you totally got me 😂 I love the vintage looks of this amp.
Would be even better if NAD brought out a HT version of this amp which can handle an extra channel and can also do wireless surround (like the M10 V2) Very hard to find a 5.1 amp w Dirac
😂😂
NAD do a 7.1ch with Dirac as that's what I have. Dirac is a game changer with movies..
Very cool looking amp.
The beard really suits you Erin. You're appearance has changed a lot man. You look younger and seem to be healthier and happier. I'm glad to see it. I'm 42 and it's a slippery slope when you get to our age, lol. Thanks for the the video.
Well, thanks man! I have been meaning to trim it back down. I’ve gotten into a bad habit of curling up my mustache. I think one of these days I’m gonna create a video with just a mustache for the heck of it. 😂😂
Yea 78 is even slippery 😅
Can you make a video explaining all the differences between speakers? Like studio monitors/bookshelf speakers/loud speakers/hi-fi/passive/powered etc and the use for each speaker/technicalities/plugs/connections and whatever else you could think of that will be useful to know.
Once again, thank you so much for such a clear and informative review. I was particularly interested in it because I might buy a Nad C399, which is very similar but baded on ncore instead of udc, ess sabre dac, and 180 w (I'd love to watch a review of yours on it). For me bass managements and Dirac are the main strengths of these amplifiers. Still I wonder if Dirac adjusts phase and time alignement between speakers and subwoofer(s). If not, would you consider it a major flaw?
Chocolately bass is definitely an applicable term ❤
Love the tests with complex loads. Is there a simple way to do them at home? I'm doing full-range EQ with UMIK-1 but would be neat to know what the amp is doing precisely.
I bought the NAD C298 because it has the NAD M23's Eigentakt:
1) it's less $
2) it has more features like adjustable knob gain, RCA loopout for 2 subwoofers, trigger output to my 2 subwoofers
I want the clarity. I add richness via my Cardas Parsec RCA interconnect cables.
I upgraded from a Parasound 2125v2 (already sounds really good).
Apple Music
Does it have a loudness compensation control for low volume listening ?
Love this product ... hdmi, sub-out, pre-out, yes.
Just noticed the meter switch on the back, input signal vs. output signal ... interesting.
I guess that's the "flashy dancing metres mode" (input) vs not really going to be doing much until you turn it up loud (output)
Feed the algorithm... pretty please?
Now, seriously. This NAD looks terrific. The fact that it has the performance and flexibility to back it up makes the price fair. IMHO.
Thanks for the food!
Thanks for your great review as always. I have a question a little off from other comments. What did you feel about the internal DAC of NAD C3050? I am using Rotel A12 MkII, which has the same DAC TI Burr-Brown PCM5242 differential DAC, and I am quite satisfied with it to be honest. But, there are so many people out there saying ESS and AKM are far better than BB DAC because it's night and day difference. Did you happen to feel it would be better to use an external DAC for NAD C3050 while reviewing the amp?
I don’t think people can hear the difference in DACs unless there is a problem with the DAC. If they can consistently pick the same DAC in a blind listening test then I’d be more apt to believe it. Until then, it’s just something to talk about to fill space in a review. IMHO.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate it!
Does Erin not like DIRAC above the Schroeder frequency?
Review the Topping LA90D! Or two of them as monoblocks.
You got me on chocolatey bass
Chocolate 🍫 bass.
Dr. Toole corrected me on the phone when I said Schroeder frequency instead of transition region when referring to typical room sizes in a home. He said the concept of Schroeder frequency only applies to much larger spaces.
My favourite bit was the dive into insanity. Second favourite was the objective data. Seriously thinking of buying this now and it wasn’t on my radar before
😂😂
Cheap plug, if you do wind up buying and order online, if you can use my link I’d appreciate it.
Word salad is fun. But not realistic. 😂
Cheap plug, if you do wind up buying and order online, if you can use my link I’d appreciate it.
Say I have Emotiva T2+ which are pretty nice measuring (based on your past review of that speaker), you are saying Dirac Live is not necessary for above 500Hz because the speaker is measuring good enough?
The condition is *assuming you have good speakers*. The T2+ are alright, though, if I recall correctly.
Nice review Erin.
People might like to know this unit is using Hypex class D outputs, which are well known and liked in the pro-audio industry.
There is no reason that any amplifier with low distortion, a flat line frequency response and a good power supply should sound any different than any other. Amplifiers are basically voltage sources and their feedback networks will seek to produce accurate voltages at all frequencies. The actual amount of current flowing is the result of applying that voltage across a load. If the amplifier's power supply is up to it, the speaker will play correctly and nobody ever hears variations in speaker impedance.
The downside of this product, for me, is that it is yet another device you can't fully utilize without a remote control... and make no mistake, a phone app is a remote control.
A don't care the south end of a northbound rat what "audiophiles" think of Class-D amplification. I've had several guests in my home who've complimented me on my system and then got that "freshly punched" look on their faces when they discover it's being run on a 60w/ch Class D amp from China. The audiophile opinion is more snobbery than anything. Clean sound is clean sound, no matter what technology sources it.
Does adding a HPF on mains to 80Hz, greatly reduce load on the mains and thus improve performance? It would be nice if you could do some comparisons of HPF vs no HPF on the result of the frequency response and impedance loads. Also subjectively which one do you prefer? HPF or full range?
That depends on the speakers.
Awesome review! I wonder how it does vs Yamaha a-s1200 in pure amplifier mode, w/o DIRAC... Sounds like not only could I save some money going NAD, but also get a DIRAC Live. Any reason Yamaha a-s1200 would be better with its $3000 price tag?
Thank you 🙏🏻
You are comparing oranges and apples right here..
@@chrisvand2678 care to elaborate? Both are amps, no?
I'd say it's a class AB and class D comparison, and specifically for these two models. Ultimately, I pay money out of pocket for the amp, and would need to choose one, don't care for DIRAC. Don't see any apples or oranges there
Do you happen to know whether Dirac is included for both versions (i.e. the one with the BluOS module, and without)?
It is my understanding that only the version with BluOS also has DL.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks, Erin! that's sort of what I figured
I always wanted some bass chocolate for my inner sanctum
I’ve read various comments from users online saying that DIRAC on this device doesn’t work properly with the sub out engaged.
Can you confirm that DIRAC actually worked as it should with a subwoofer?
I really like the looks of this amp and was seriously considering it as an ‘upgrade’ over my C326 BEE but the reality is the C3050 lacks the connectivity I need and it only offers in reality 3db more total output which I don’t need. Most of the other on paper specs are better on my C326 BEE, I’d only really benefit from DIRAC and funky VU meters if DIRAC will actually work with my subwoofer properly.
I already have streaming and DAC capability with a Pioneer network player. I wish NAD would just make a pure integrated amplifier with plenty of RCA inputs that also has DIRAC and VU meters.
Nice review, could you do a quick overview of whats in the amplifiers going forward? Topology, class D IC used (if applicable), DAC used ect.
My biggest problem with this NAD amp is its too expensive. NADs parent company owns BlueOS, that should be in the base price so should basic Dirac. Also, I've briefly seen this in person and I'm pretty sure the "wood" is vinyl and the VU meters are plastic and so is volume dial, not really ok at this price point.
I do find it really interesting that you've been using class D since 08 and have been ok with it though. Class D from the 00s sounded pretty awful to me and back then I didn't have much knowledge of what was even what, just didn't sound as good as class AB. Two years ago I built a IcePower amp modules you see in $2,000 amps so I had high hopes and that was better than what I remembered but I still didn't really care for it. The first class D I sounded "good" to me is the Fosi V3 (TI3255) and SMSLAL200 (Infineon MA5332MS) both of those sub $150 and sub $300 amps respectively were game changers for class D for me. Oh, well, either way I'm still here for power tests which are great.
@PhillioDoede
Do you really think it's overpriced?
This unit packs A LOT of features into one box. Part of what you are paying for is that integration and convenience.
DIRAC is its own separate entity, and to add it to other products, it ranges from $300 to $500 just for the software license, not including the necessary internal circuitry/hardware costs.
And exactly WHY should the BlueOS functionality be included for free??? It took lots of time and money to develop and manufacture/produce. There should absolutely & inherently be a respective ROI for your product, otherwise you simply go out of business!
I'd be interested in seeing you try to build a similarly featured unit and sell it successfully for considerably less while paying all of your operating costs for R&D, circuit & chassis design, parts suppliers, manufacturing facilities, manufacturing equipment, expendables, office furniture, workbenches, test equipment, labor/employees, building maintenance, utility bills, janitorial services, insurance, employee health benefits, packaging, distribution, owner's manuals/document creation & publishing, advertising costs, UL/CE certification, service and support, etcetera, etcetera, and still make a profit!!!
@@bbfoto7248 You can get similar NAD amps similar features for less in the 'C 3xx' and 'C 7xx'. They all use Hypex modules so you are getting pretty much the same sound until you get into the Ncore based stuff. All NAD products are overpriced in my opinion though and NAD has annoying habbit of having way too many products and holding features back on lower tier models and forcing you to move up the price ladder. I would feel better about this if build quality was better but plastic controls and vinyl "wood" isn't not acceptable at this price point. The Leak Stereo 230 is very similar feature wise, has the same vintage look and is $100 less money with a real wood cover.
Regarding licensing costs its never that simple. That might be what it costs for individual license but when giant corporations want to license someone else's tech they pay a fraction of what the MSRP is. I'm sure Dirac wants to protect their market position / image as a market leader since they don't really do anything else so obviously they don't want to give away their best technology for free if they people are willing to pay for it. Hence you have pay for the full feature set but their going to have to rethink that position as they are not the only ones doing this now, others are getting very good at it.
BlueOS should be free because just like room correction they are going to loose market share to other cheaper, and/or better streaming platforms if they don't. Currently they are abusing their market position because they can get away with it but others are building better platforms for less money. Wiim has pretty much caught up in terms of feature and usability and every year they are making pretty big steps on improving their hardware. EverSolo has a great platform as well is building much better DACs; its pretty much only a matter of time before they build an integrated amp around their streaming and DAC platform. If NAD and Bluesound (Lenbrook) don't move quicker become more competitive their going to be left behind.
I don't have to build a better amplifier for less money or more compelling features for similar money. That already exists from companies like Yamaha, Leak, Lyngdorf, and others depending on what you are looking for.
9:47 I immediately started laughing :D
Voto gag 10/10
the inner detail fidelity suffers immensely when engaging dirac! However, I have a solution for this with my specially tuned quartz crystals. They resonate with the frequency of the constellation of the sun to the earth, thereby eliminating all unwanted vibrations. clicc here to buy!
COMMENT ON AMP DIFFERENCES. My observations are in acoustically untreated rooms (at least absorption of first reflections on all four sides + some bass absorbers) at avg. listening volume over 72 or max 75 dB, its reflections starts to interfere with the sound stage in such manner that many finer frequencies (across all Hz spectrum), details, nuances, layering, imagining etc in the sound stage are getting messed up and somehow lost, especially at avg. listening volume 80 dB+. It means it does smear the source qualities, so it also smears the gears' differences. If you can in untreated room hear clear difference between triode and linear or other modes with tube amp at cca avg. 70 dB listening volume, at over 80 dB or 85 dB would be the same sound stage mess, just noise and for me unbearable for focused or relaxing listening, especially with more open, brighter (a good ones) speakers. But I can also notice that a part of listeners or audiophiles - their register - are not sensitive to such issues, they simply do not notice such changes in frequency responses in the music. They are more orientated on tactile effects of music presentation - mostly the bass amount or effect.
So for someone who listens loud in untreated room is more likely that will not hear significant differences between amps. But of course the differences between lots of most of popular commercial amps (regardless of price to some degree ) of all kinds- brands are small or very small ones and they are more or less boring, at least for me, especially for comparisionos.
Volume= EQ. Somehow yes it is, or the volume can be also considered as adjusting the room's frequency response.
So testing speakers at over 90dB SPL is for my opinion meaningless for most 2 channel audiophile scenarios, except for home theatre users or party purposes. Many of us listen to music at cca avg 70- 75 dB. So such measurement is far more important 96 or OMG 102 dB
Please copy it, edit it and send it to me. I also like like Magnepans - a wall of sound.
Is "hifi" a term that's past its used by date? It seems all the entry level things are good enough and everything else is marginal gains. NAD and BluSound make a bunch of products with this architecture at various price points. All of them work and sound much the same which is to say good enough for the $$$. The more you pay, they greater the superlatives and the deeper the wallet required. This one though is has a retro aesthetic, much like the PSB Passif 50 speakers that make for a matched pair. PSB, Blusound and NAD all live under the same roof so that makes sense. Anyway, if you like the retro aesthetic but with modern capability and for not too much money then this could be the very thing you've been looking for.
Oh yes how does it sound? Inoffensive and with Dirac you can make it sound how you want, something overlooked in the "room correction" conversation. Want your rig to sound like an 80's party machine, tweak that curve accordingly. Its all good.
I just like its’ meters. ✨
I think I’d get a Yamaha S701 instead (seems like a safer bet).
Buy it go ahead buy it
A vintage amplifier needs: tone control (bass, treble AND midrange, defeatable), filters, balance, stereo/mono mode, polarity switch , input selector and tape loop for two tapes input.
@astra004
Well, TBF, this isn't a vintage integrated amplifier. It's a 100% modern unit with "classic" or vintage styling.
If you prefer a true vintage unit, there are certainly plenty of them out there on the second-hand market.
@@bbfoto7248 You‘re right. I wanted to point out, that NAD is hopping on a train with no destination. As nice as a Sansui looks. It doesn’t serves my purposes.
@@astra004
"No destination"? How do you figure? It seems that the general interest and sales for this unit are quite good.
There are plenty of folks with disposable income that prefer the looks and styling of yesteryear, but are keen to have all of the modern conveniences and performance of the present day.
This is also evident in the revival of "Classic" loudspeaker designs that have re-emerged, such as the Wharfedale Lintons, JBL L100 Classic, MoFi SourcePoint, etc.
While it's not for me, IMO, this NAD unit satisfies that market and "destination" quite well, and at a reasonable cost.
I have a feeling that this train is going to continue on its destination unimpeded for quite some time.
@@bbfoto7248 It is in my opinion a niche market.
The future of reproduction lies in active speakers and internal or external streaming boxes.
Class-D amplifiers and noise? Any modern serious brands these days like Hypex, Purify etc have SNR ratios that are far better than most Class-AB amplifiers. On ASR website they are all in at least the top 20.
Noise in these amps is still an idea from at least 2 decades ago from cheap amplifiers or cheap PA amplifiers.
@p_mouse8676
I agree for the most part, but there are still both Class A/B and Class D amplifiers (and other topologies) out there that are technically "bad" mixed in among the majority that are excellent.
Case in point were the Class-D amplifiers in the original 3-way KALI Audio IN-8 active/powered studio monitors. They had a separate built-in Class D amplifier dedicated to each of the 3 drive units.
While the sound quality in general was very good, the Class-D amplifiers in the active IN-8 studio monitors produced a very noticeable noise floor/background hiss that made them difficult to work on and listen to.
Luckily, KALI Audio quickly remedied this problem by producing an updated Version 2.0 with new/better amplifiers which are called the IN-8 "Second Wave", which I own and am 100% satisfied with, but they are now used in my K.I.S.S. bedroom system.
But the early adopters of the original version of the IN-8 were stuck with the hiss/noise floor issue. :/
I also alternately use one of the modern DIYclassD Hypex Nilai500-based stereo "kit" amplifiers with excellent results in my main home HiFi system, but also have the option to use a few other well-regarded high quality Class A/B amps, too.
The Nilai500 Class D certainly "hold their own", and I'd go so far as to say that they "sound" fantastic, or rather that they don't inject any unique character or sound of their own at all, while having plenty of power to drive nearly any pair of loudspeakers.
I'm a saxophonist and drummer, and have my own home recording studio, and with my own recordings I've made using high quality, neutral ribbon microphones and preamps, my recordings sound TRUE TO LIFE when reproduced using these amplifiers.
And since they are pretty much impedance-load agnostic, they perform better with one particular set of somewhat difficult to drive floorstanders I've kept around.
Prior to the Hypex Nilai500-based amplifier, I had tried one of the Purifi 1ET400A-based Eigentakt stereo amps, but after a week or so of living with both, I preferred the Nilai500 amp in the end.
I also use a few of the original Hypex UcD and Ncore-based car audio amplifiers from BikeTronics/Vivid Amps in my high-end car stereo systems with excellent results, and with the bonus that they are extremely efficient.
But I also have excellent Class A/B amplifiers in those systems powering the midrange and tweeters.
There were definitely some early Car Audio and Home Audio Class-D amplifiers that were not up to the task...at least in regards to use on the mids and highs.
But in 95% of the modern Class-D car audio amplifiers (and home HiFi amps as well), the switching frequencies are much higher now, with better comparator circuits/feedback loops, as well as having better filtering in the final output stage.
Case in point are the Class-D Alpine X-series and STATUS car audio amplifiers. I helped a friend install one of these in his car audio system a few years ago and was immediately impressed with the pristine and dynamic sound quality, especially in regards to the 3D holographic Imaging...
So much so, that I swapped out a few of my older, more power-hungry Class A/B amplifiers for these newer Alpine X-series and have absolutely no regrets.
Anyhow...
@@bbfoto7248 that's a very long story to say that there are exceptions.....
On another channel it was mentioned the subwoofer out is still running while headphones are activated. Is this a construction failure or a monday device?
That seems like something I wouldn't want, if true.
On not eqing high frequencies, what if you want to tone down some sibilance frequencies?
Sure. That’s fine. Not saying you should never do it. But my take is to use speakers that don’t necessarily need specific EQ when you can. But it budget doesn’t permit a better speaker and EQ can be used to improve the speaker itself or a couple bands can improve your enjoyment then go for it.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I already got em. The Sourcepoint 8 I would like to adjust a tad bit. It's not terrible.
@@BoxkerpRhe Sourcepoint 8 isn't bright... That's odd... It's clean past the 500Hz region... In fact the best of the standmounts Erin has tested in the past 10 videos outside of the March Audio Sointuva AWG and some KEFs.
But anyway you can tow them so the middle point of each speaker is slight past your ears.
Don't let it face directly into the room or else you lose the treble presence. So not 30° but roughly 15° away from your ears on either side or even lower than 15°
Great review as usual Erin, love your work man.
@@Mishael_Agyei-Boamah I don't think they are bright but there is a frequency up top that I'd like to tone down a bit. I do have them set up as Erin suggested but I still needed to cut the treble on my McIntosh a couple of notches. I'd rather tune it at the exact frequency that's bothering me. With my KEF R3 Metas, I could leave the treble at 0 but the sorcepoint 8 has a slightly better 3 dimensionality. Trade-offs you gotta love them, huh
Any idea what the output impedance of the headphone jack is?
Sorry. I do not.
@@ErinsAudioCornerHave you done an origin story? I'm sure lots of people would like to know how you got into the audio hobby and how you became a technician about it? Please include your reference material and knowledge bases. You're measuring rig is so dang cool. Thanks Erin.
Watching
Edit: New Acoustic Dimension. (Learned something new)
Now I’ve got “private eyes” stuck in my head …
😂
$ 1800 bucks ? my Outlaw receiver cost $ 1000. - 110 real w per ch , many digital and RCA inputs , separate Sub , adjustable phono , classic Alum style..... Of course Ya can get a 100 w / ch Yamaha for $ 200. include phono - and I'd bet I could never hear any difference. note the early 1970's manufac. had an agreement to rate at a conservative ' both chan driven , 20 -20 thou freq.' which isn't always done nowadays. my Cambridge 100 gives 2 ratings - 100 w per with the modern 'easy ' rating and 80 w per with the conservative rating. kinda matches your statement , 15 min in. maybe.?
the electronic equalizer might be good. fun stuff , I'm old & come from an era when stereo mags did tests including like 2 pages of stats, like FM selectivity. FM capture ratio , phono sensitivity , phono S /N. all boils down to , to me - buy what Ya can afford, has the features Ya want & which looks good , you'll be lookin at it a lot. reliability WOULD be super import but I've never noticed any diff - 7 or 8 years out of Pioneer, NAD, Carver , Sony ES ... solid decent stuff.
Do you ever collaborate with Amir?
Nope. And I’ll leave it at that.
Now you're making everybody curious. This implies you have a history. You're sort of competitors, both doing regular hifi reviews with an emphasis on measurements and both of you use the Klippel system, lots of overlap@@ErinsAudioCorner
@@ErinsAudioCornerASR has good info but the entire “SINAD, Purify Amp, Topping/SMSL DAC, Revel speaker” gets tiring fast. 😂
E Dizzle yo.yo.buddy.😊
It's the VU meters, admit it.
It is. It is.
Compared to what? To wiim? To Parasound....? To Musical Fidelity A1?
Did you watch?
@@patrickmiller4987seems they didn't😂
Yep, I watched. Which part do you think I missed in relation with the tons of epithets from 09:45 to 10:15?
@@nikolaygramchev
Lost in translation. ;)
@@bbfoto7248Lost in fantasyation.
You sold me at buttery smooth.
🧈
All amplifiers should look like this and not like ugly boxes.
Nice unit but at 1800 at lest give me a switch for more power be simple enough to do via in put sensitivity on the pre amp side of things class d and all that 80 usd of that spent on the amps power supply and one should have a bit more power lol . i need to see the inside of the unit..EDIT i seen the inside of unit and its modular and easy to service sweet design .just needs more power
I really don.t know if we listen the same amp ??? i have C3050se connected to the B&W 705 signature for half a year... There is NO bass ! Sound is very "dry" without bass....
Blame the speakers or your room.
No. I plug in an Audiolab Omnia and the bass is wonderful... no moving speakers or changing cables... just D on AB. I will never buy a D class again. Greetings from Slovenia 😎
It is your speakers not the amplifier... They have no kick drum fundamental energy as they don't get down to below 60Hz... Your Audiolab did nothing I'm afraid... You just gaslit yourself into agreeing so...
If you have a friend with a Class D Amplifier, let them come with it and help you do a blind test ... Tous come to the realization but hey if it makes you happy have at it but I'd tell you not having an actually powerful amplifier from Benchmark, Apollon, Soncoz and NAD who make some of the best amplifiers in the world because of a community driven supposed audible difference that makes other classes better than Class D (which is false by the way)
@@robert37321
I'm assuming that your listening comparison was performed in such a way that someone else could randomly switch between the two amplifiers multiple times instantaneously?
...And that they were both perfectly level-matched?
...And that the switching between the two amplifiers was done Unsighted and randomized by someone other than yourself, so that you had no idea which amplifier you were listening to at any given time???
Search for and take just 5 minutes of your time to read:
"Audio Musings by Sean Olive - The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests"
I love NAD and I love this amplifier. but for me, its too much money. I would go with a Yamaha amp instead for 60 percent or less of the price of the NAD. Meters are worth paying for, I guess im just not willing to pay that much for them.
Does the Yamaha amp you are comparing this to have a built-in Streamer with BlueOS, a DAC, preamp & subwoofer outputs with crossover & EQ, and DIRAC room correction???
@@bbfoto7248 I would also guarantee that the Yamaha's power rating is with 1ch @ 1khz as well.
Also people can just go buy a Kia rather than a Mercedes as well.
Is that a UK SHIRT? GO CATS
It is! Go big blue!
Would never waste so much on a receiver!
That's all god, but does it sound "warm", and how does it make you "feel"?
Commenting for algo
Thanks!
amplifier doesn't improve the sound. for that you need magic mushrooms.
Lol calling out Klipsch and the rest for their lies when it comes to sensitivity ratinf spec they make available... That is what always makes people end up saying so so and so amplifier isnt synergistic with my speakers when sometimes the true sensitivity isnt 92dB @ 2.83V/1m but around 84dB @ 2.83V/1m
$1800 for class d 😢
Ummm...
# 1. This is much more than just an amplifier. It's also a Network Device that includes a Streamer, DAC, DIRAC, etcetera, with some added functionality and features that very few others offer in similar units.
# 2. But the real question is, WHY do you think that a Class D amplifier should be any cheaper to produce or sell for less than a Class A/B amplifier???
ALL amplifiers ultimately perform the exact same electronic function...that is, they AMPLIFY an input signal voltage to produce a higher output voltage. Period. It's not magic and there is no Pixie Dust involved in either topology.
However, a Class D amplifier has the unique advantage of being much more efficient...
It's like getting the brute Horsepower and performance of a Ferrari or an American Muscle Car while only having the fuel consumption of a tiny Smart Car/Toyota Yaris/Nissan Sentra/Fiat 500, etc.
@@bbfoto7248
If priced fairly, Class-D amplifiers should be somewhat cheaper than their A/B cousins. In general they do not require massive power transformers or huge heat sinks and use far less general parts. That should translate to a saving for the end user.
@@bbfoto7248 why you think the old NAD sound so good because it’s solid state with metal transistors class a/b that give you the warmth deep sound not the the junks class D .
@@tuantrd
Well, I never said anything about a difference in the sound characteristics between the two classifictions of amplifiers,.so there's that.
HOWEVER, there are a MULTITUDE of vastly different circuit designs used within just Class A/B amplifier designs, as well as Class D topologies, that will have a much greater impact on the resulting characteristics of the sound other than just a simple generalized blanket statement that one is Class A/B and one is Class D.
As just one example, some amplifiers may use a comparator circuit or "feedback loop", multiple feedback loops applied to different areas within the amp, varying degrees of said feedback, or no feedback at all in the amplification circuit. This can apply to nearly any classification or topology type amplifier.
What we all must keep in mind is that, an amplifier on its own is not a complete circuit. The circuit of any given amplifier, regardless of the topology or classification, is not a complete circuit UNTIL a reactive load is connected to it...i.e. the loudspeakers.
Furthermore, every unique and individual loudspeaker drive unit OR complete multi-way loudspeaker presents a a unique and varying REACTIVE LOAD to the amplifier throughout the frequency bandwidth it plays. HINT: look at the impedance plot for any given loudspeaker. None of them will be identical.
In addition, if you think of a traditional loudspeaker transducer or drive unit as being an electromagnetic coil of wire that moves within a fixed magnetic field, it is essentially the same principle as being an electric generator just like the alternator in your car, or a gasoline, proprane, wind, or hydro-driven turbine generator.
They both use the same concept of a particular coil of wire that moves within a fixed magnetic field. And any coil of wire will have an a electrical property or value known as inductance.
I'm sure you're aware that we use inductor coils in passive crossover filter networks for loudspeakers in order to divide and separate the range of frequencies that each Drive Unit in the loudspeaker receives and plays.
The values of these inductor coils are predictable in that they are fixed and not moving, and they are not subjected to an opposing magnetic field.
Again, an inductor coil is basically just any coil of wire. And so, a voice coil in a loudspeaker transducer is also an inductor, and as loudspeaker coils operate and move within a fixed magnetic field, they creates an electric current and voltage.
One of the issues is, the unlike the fixed inductor coil that we use in our passive crossover networks, the inductive voice coil within a loudspeaker drive unit has a VARIABLE INDUCTANCE that changes with the position of the coil within the fixed magnetic field in the magnetic pole piece and gap of the urive unit.
Therefore, a speaker also Generates ITS OWN electric voltage and current that is constantly changing depending the position of the coil and also how far it moves in & out of the magnetic field.
This produces both Varying Inductance AND what we call "Back EMF" which is problematic and the amplifier circuit "sees" and has to deal with and correct as best as possible (or not) depending its unique circuitry.
A large part of what you pay for when purchasing and/or using expensive, high quality drive units in a well-designed loudspeaker, is that the individual drive units will most often have a lower inductance value ("Le"), as well as much less inductance variance throughout its full excursion or stroke (Xmax).
This creates much less of a problem for an amplifier that is trying to accurately reproduce the input signal. It also lowers the driver's distortion level, as well as reduces the Back EMF, and individual drivers with lower "Le" will usually play cleanly with smoother frequency response and less distortion up to a higher frequency range.
SO, given all of these many variables in both Amplifier Circuitry AND the Loudspeakers themselves which complete that unique circuit is most likely why you might experience "good synergy" and pleasing sound with a particular amplifier when it is combined with a particular pair of loudspeakers, OR the opposite effect.
To their advantage, most of the newer Class D amplifier designs are very impedance-load agnostic. IOW, the varying/reactive impedance load that is frequency-dependent and which is presented to the amplifier by the loudspeaker does not affect the amplifier's frequency or phase response throughout its bandwidth, nor does it affect the power output of the amplifier.
They are more analogous to a "straight wire with gain" and will not impart their own sonic character to the sound that you hear from your loudspeakers.
This is not to say that ALL Class D amplifiers are good and have this attribute (watch the recent recent review of the $299 WiiM Amp/streamer/DAC on Erin's Audio Corner as one example). But there are plenty of Class A/B amplifiers that perform poorly as well.
I'm also not saying that a good Class A, A/B, or other amplifier design cannot achieve this same indifference to varying impedance loads, but it is naturally more inherent in good Class D designs.
Having said all that, once you have a decent amplifier that does not suffer significantly from any of these limitations or anomalies, AND as long as the amplifier has the necessary power output to drive your loudspeakers to the SPL you desire without clipping distortion, as a recording engineer, I would Much Rather Use EQ to prescribe certain attributes to the sound characteristics of my music and the loudspeakers in my room, such as being "warm" and "smooth", or "detailed" and "analytical".
And as a reference point, the vast majority of PROFESSIONAL active studio monitor speakers that have built-in amplification are using some form of Class D amplifier technology. There are fewer and fewer passive studio monitor loudspeakers on the market these days.
Also consider that these are the music professionals that are actually recording, mixing, mastering, and Producing ALL of the music that you listen to on your HiFi system.
So, regardless of whether or not your home HiFi system uses Class A, Class A/B, Class D, Class H, or some other amplifier topology, 90% of recording studio engineers are working on studio monitors that are powered by Class D amplifier technology.
TBF, if these music industry professionals felt that they were experiencing or hearing ANY disadvantages or shortcomings by using class D amplification, I'm sure that they would be the first group to widely reject it. They have not.
NAD is a copy product…I have owned one of the amp they had copy’d…😒
What product did NAD copy?
@@thomasmylett298 I had kenwood 9993, which had a very odd looking remote control. Well, take a look at NAD T775. You can follow the two over the years, when kenwood made an upgrade, nad did exactly same upgrade 2 years after! And you can follow the same upgrade until kenwood stops making their amp, well what did nad do, it’s also stop…
I had owned Kenwood 9993, it had an odd looking remote control! The very first NAD T775 is made exactly same and with same odd looking remote. Every time Kenwood made an upgrade NAD T775 came with the same 2 years after. You can actually follow these two amps and see it. When Kenwood stopped making their, well nad stopped their T775.😒
Dear Erin, first of all let me say thank you... No, THANK YOU for what you are doing.
I do really think that you made some kind of revolution in hi-fi reviews, it's god blessing for the community to have a reviewer with your's IQ and attitude!
If you don't mind, I will ask you one question:
I'm in situation of qite difficult returns of the purchases and terrible asymmetrical room, so I really need an amp with the best room correction software possible.
For the moment I'm stuck choosing from Technics GX70 and NAD C3050.
In my country they both priced almost similar, 1800 euros for GX70 and 2000 euros for C3050 with BluOS module.
Could you tell me your opinion - which room correction do you think is working better, Dirac or Technic's in-house software or just which amp is overall better?
Which one would you buy for yourself not considering aesthetics side (for sure NAD looks better)?
Thank you Erin for setting up a new level of quality in hi-fi reviewing.
P.S. Another thanks for Lintons recommendation - they are just awesome!
Honestly, I’m not familiar with the GX70. With that said, the NAD’s feature of Dirac live will help. If the GX70 has full spectrum frequency response then it might do a better job at helping to remedy the asymmetry of the setup, though.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Yes, Erin, Technics has correction for the full spectrum. The only thing Technics is missing - correction for pre-outs. For some reason room correction software do not affects pre-outs, and as it does not have dedicated subwoofer output, it will not affect connect via pre-outs subwoofer. But I think sub is quite easy to correct with it's onboard volume and crossover control, so lets go for the Technics! As usually - Thank you Erin )