Two stroke engines can return at MotoGP
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Could the era of four-stroke engines in MotoGP be coming to an end, as their alternatives loom on the horizon? But what could be the reason behind this seismic shift, you ask?
The answer may surprise you. The secret to unlocking the ultimate performance in MotoGP may just lie in the resurgence of two-stroke engines.
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Put all riders on 200+ hp 2 stroke bikes, with no traction control, no computer interference. Then we will see who is the best.
I can't wait for the 2 Stroke come back!!!
You’ll be waiting a long long time then
@@macsmith6216 I'll keep waiting.
Hope they come back in all the motorcycle racing for good
Yes, the *buzz-bomb sound!*
@@macsmith6216 maybe they will comeback sooner than we think. It will take some years to come but its seems certain this time.
Modern 2 stroke snowmobiles are real marvels. Direct injection, oil injection to the wrist pin, ignition mapping. They are both very powerful (180 h.p. for a 850 cc displacement) and use a lot less oil. They are able to pass modern emissions standards easily. A v4 500 cc version like the old NSR should be able to produce more than 250 h.p. in a very light package. Would love to see them back!
In 1968, which is 55 years ago, Suzuki developed a 3 cil 50cc race bike that had 16 gears and 19hp at 19000rpm. It’s top speed was 200km/h or 124m/h. It had so many gears because of it’s narrow 500rpm powerband. This is 380 hp/litre. So imagine if 2strokes had the same development as the 4strokes? It never raced, because the fim changed the rules that 50cc could only have 1cilinder and 6 speed gearboxes. You find the information on the internet. Suzuki RP68 prototype….. amazing that even now 4 strokes don’t have 380hp/litre on naturally aspirated engines.
Bring it back please❤❤
To use your car is to drive it. To use your motorcycle is to ride it. It isn't so hard if you think about it a little bit. I can't wait for the Two-strokes either, remember the excitement of Wayne Gardners V4 NSR500 two stroke, yep that one had people walking on three legs also.
The Two Stroke Engine wasn’t environmentally unfriendly, it was the Fuel that made them dirty … also the oil you injected caused the exhaust output problems that kicked them to the curb …
Not particularly useful without the fuel and oil though, so that's a moot point.
The technology is there for 2 Strokes to come back. With all the electronics today the bikes can make a good rider look better than he is. I think if these were to come back it would be good thing as it would require more skill to ride and transfer some of the skills back to the rider rather than from the bike itself.
Nailed it! 👌
The electronic aids will mask the evils of the two stroke engines as they do on the four strokes.
LOL, yeah, cuz you can't put that stuff on a two-stroke!
@@race-ready Actually, there is a news recently that MSMA in MotoGP (Motorsport, Motorcycle, Manufacturers, Association) once again got a new proposal beside the thought of reducing down to 850cc from 1000 starting 2027. Once again 3 manufacturers have voice out an idea to also reduce the cylinders of the future engine. In case they unanimously agree. It's quite interesting as one member of the Race Direction said in the podcast recently that just like 600cc, 1000cc is likely in the verge of extinction.
Despite both Aprilia & KTM already agreed with the reduce of cubic centimeters to the future engine. They are yet convinced about the changes they wanted in terms of cylinders. I bet they will talk about this in the next 3 years before finalizing it in 2027. Beside the non fossil fuels, there is also hydrogen or Hybrid that are offered on the table. But I'm hoping they wouldn't dare to pick the vacuum sound Hybrid.
If they do, probably you might be right that they might comeback to 2 stroke but more evolved & modern I guess than the previous years.
motorcyclesports.net/manufacturers-agree-to-reduce-motogp-engines-to-850cc/
1000cc 2-stroke! Bring it!!!!
Yeah, bring them back..
We will never see it because two strokes would rule again and the manufactures of cams, valves, valve springs, timing gears, timing chains and all the other gear that goes into a valve train will not have a stake in the two stroke engine. I loved my two stroke street bikes because they were fun and fast also easy to work on and ohhhh that sound.
Maybe if the video described how the new 2 stroke technology worked, it might have been interesting.
Totally agree……what a useless video as is.
Right, a lot of "what if's" here. Also, a lot of points given for two-strokes here also applies to racing as a whole. This video would have been much more interesting if it had delved into the nuts and bolts of current 2-stroke design and the tech that could make it happen. Likewise, visuals showing a number of 4-stroke engines while audio is focused on 2-strokes didn't help. I also found video from motorcycle gaming less than stirring. I was hoping to learn something here and was met with wishful thinking. For example, are the motorcycle factories actually working on future 2-stroke GP bikes right now? I have not heard they are.
Really like the 2 stroke. Just need to work on the relyability issues posed by them. I rode them for years and there is little to compare to the power to wieght ratio.
high performance 2 strokes have been more reliable than high performance 4 strokes for 2 years or more....
@@MrKdr500 two stroke: replace piston, ring and wrist pin bearing at 20 hrs. race another 20 hrs. four stroke: rebuild entire engine or it explodes and destroys entire engine including the crank cases, aka most of the engine.
The 2 strokes are a lot more reliable than 4 strokes these days. Outboards, motocross bikes, sleds, jet skis, etc. 4 strokes are decades behind.
@@ahengineering1461 You're most likely right. Replacing critical parts on a two strokes isn't very hard/expensive. As long as you do it yourself and do it often that is.
Neglecting to do so on an ultra high performance 4 strokes may end up like looking for a very expensive brand new or refurbished short block, or worse.
Then you have to be able to do the work by yourself, or having the financial resources to pay someone else to do the work.
its not that they are decades behind, they are reaching a level of diminishing returns. a two stroke isnt magically better. its a matter of physics that 1 powerstroke in 2 is better than 1 powerstroke in 4. two strokes are more volumetrically efficient, 4 strokes are more thermally efficient. for a 250 4 stroke to make the power of a 125 2 stroke the 4 strokes internals need to be twice as strong, that goes for everything, the rods, the pistons, the crank, the main bearings and crank pins especially. much larger and stronger overall. this is becuase they receive double the impulsive force once every 4 piston strokes. thermal efficiency is a different animal and the thermal efficiency of 2 strokes is worse. because of the open exhaust port in a traditional arrangement.
@@sciencemilitia1853
I love 2 Strokes
loved the 500cc erea, with the lighter bikes the rider could do magic with the bikes. Now with havyer bikes it's more the bike who are in controll, deside the outcome
If the bikes are heavier than it is definitely more rider focused... because the rider has a heavier bike in his hands to hes now more important... use your brain.
Two strokes all the way 👍🏻 I've got a Kr1s250 🏍️ she's a screamer 😊
The BEST news in a month....
MotoGP needs to allow “diverse” engineering in order to make it more interesting. We had turbos back in the 80’s, so where are they today? With direct injection and computer technology we need to invite outside of the box engineering! Two-strokes can run cleaner than four strokes! Turbos can make big BHP out of tiny engines! Cmon FIM- make MotoGP interesting again! Allow 2 strokes and turbos! Tiny and light bikes with BIG BHP’S!
They had supercharged two strokes racing in the 30's
The 330bhp the Motogp bikes have now is plenty
No turbos ever in GP racing, Supercharger banned after WW2,
@@mattburnett4185 no not 2 strokes
The speed record in MotoGP is 366.1km/h. The acceleration of MotoGP bikes from 0 to 100 is around 2.6seconds. The current bikes are at about the limit of human capabilities. It's an idiotic thought that making the bikes faster would make the races more interesting. It would make the races only more dangerous, without any advancement in making them more exciting.
The Rule maker need to stop mandating the type of engines ,and tyre brands fuel types and brands and detailed technical aspects of the machines, let the engineers and teams decide what they need and unlock the real potential and peak interest once again .
More power is the least we need..366km/h is too much for the micro cirquits.
Would be fabulous but won't happen .Fact!
Some of us have been watching gp for 50 years and know all about it thanks
I grew up watching racing in the 70s so two strokes have always been my thing but I can't see moto gp going the way. The cost to develop new engines would be enormous and unless the manufacturers have road going two strokes they want to sell I can't see anything in it for them. Moto gp also run a control ECU .How would that work on both two and four stroke bikes. It would have to be all or none and i can't see the likes of Honda, who were keen to go four stroke back in 2002 wanting to go back. Cant say it will never happen but can't see it especially in the current economic climate.
At 1:43 the rod is connected to the wrong side of the crank web the big end resides opposite to the counter weight and not on the same side. LOL
If that happened in MotoGp, i think we ould see the view count double overnight!
Oh yeah! 😬
They can’t do more training, the amount of testing days are limited. Less downtime hmmmm, I remember them seizing regularly on the track and the road.
2-stroke rear engine car of any sort please. thanks.
Really hope the 2 strokes come back with limited electronics...These were men's bikes and the racing was never boring!
I grew up on 2T motorbikes both air and liquid cooled. I miss the big bore MX bikes. If I had known they would be shelved I would never have sold any of them. My 93 KX500 was a pure beast of a bike. Sure it wasn't stock and had some internal wizardry going on but it was built for dirt drags and eventually ended up as a hill climb machine. 80 whp is nothing to sneeze at when the vehicle weighs less than 240lbs wet.
I say even if the newer tech makes them more costly bring back the 2T bikes. There is something about hitting that powerband on a 2T and the bike taking off like it was just shot out of a cannon that no other motorsports engine can replicate. I am a 19 year old stuck in a 51 year old body, and would gladly pay the money to have a modern 500cc 2T MX bike or Enduro to rip around the local tracks on.
If they can figure emissions out I would love to see a modern take on a RD 350, or a GT 550 roadbike. A modern 750 triple 2T bike would be amazing and can you imagine the power figures! Probably won't see any of it in my lifetime but we can always dream and hope.
❤❤❤❤ please comeback 2stroke engine😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
Yeah, but if you can't buy a road going version no one will care. And that's not very likely in the foreseeable future.
When I was young I rode raced Kawasaki triples raced formula 100 go karts and flat tracked two-stroke motorcycles and Ice Race them as well I am a two-stroke freak I would love to see this come back to the norm
Might/ May / Can /Could... That's what you think but despite more power, if you've ever riddent a 2T you'll know that there's no engine brake at all! So this is pure illusion.
pipe dream
Make it equal cc as the 4stroke
#2Stroke shoud life for ever 🙂
Ummmmm……yahhhh, riiiiiiiiiiight. 😂
A radial four cylinder two stroke is two V twins back to back. It gives zero vibration and virtually no torque vibration. All four rods are carried on one big end pin. It would need a blower but air is fed via a hollow crank and fuel via speaker coil injection or even the two stage injection used on F1 car engines.
The Japanese pushed in the four stroke era first in the late 90's in Motocross, double the displacement for the same power output or thereabouts.
What made the difference was the added torque the four stroke provided, which made them easier to ride and control all though heavier than their two stroke counter parts.
I would love to see the two stroke make a comeback, way more fun to ride and cheaper to produce. That was half the problem with the four stroke was it drove the cost of the sport through the roof and pushed out a lot of talented riders due to cost.
Smaller talent pool is never a good thing in sports.
Efficiency is more an issue than emissions 2 stroke will never go as far with as little
Nice video. However, I think you are missing a few points here.
A - Two Strokes engines have been branded as environmentally unfriendly for so long, it might take a while to change this perception among the general population.
B - Refer to A when it comes to what the political implications are.
C - Most engine manufacturers have abandoned the two strokes concept such a long time ago, it might take a while for those so willing to catch up, technologically wise.
D - A two strokes engine will never be as reliable as a four strokes engine. It has to do with the piston never catching a break cooling wise, while four strokes engine pistons have twice the time to cool off. The general public prefer reliability over performance.
E - Two strokes engines have a shorter power band than four strokes', which makes them more delicate to handle than a four strokes'.
F - All of this being said, I'll take a two strokes to go!
One word .....ROTARY
About the power to weight ratio... I don't follow the ever changing rules closely. But I've heard that the manufacturers can't make a bike under a certain weight. If 2-stroke and 4-stroke were competing directly, the rule about the 4-strokes not being under a certain weight would surely have to be discarded. I believe it would improve the materials and technology across the board. Each team would probably compete with both 2 and 4-stroke engined bikes, leaving that to the rider's preference.
Be interesting if Formula1 also switch to 2-stroke! Making them that bit more like super go-karts than race cars, and reducing their weight that bit more.
Castrol R Rules
Bring it on
Can you please tell me exactly where you would store enough hydrogen on a motorcycle to run a race distance ?
I would say either in a replaceable gas tank which could be replaced during pit stops, or using its liquid form, but that would be expensive
I cant imagine what kind of beast 2 stroke 1000 cc with latest technology will become...
I don't think it will be that big, probably 500 or 750
Lubrification and reliabilty is unfort not to be solved 😢
Last 2stroke engine production in malaysia market 2017 miss that sound n smell of oil 2t smoke 😅😅
It would be interesting to add a team perhaps GasGas using this tech to the grid but it wouldn't be for years. Ducati would never agree to this after years and years of development to finally be on top. Japanese manufacturers are too strapped for cash to suddenly abandon their current configuration to start a new engine development.
Brilliant
Beast engine
I've always said Moto GP open classers power plant rules should be;
Maximum capacity.
Maximum number of cylinders.
A minimum weight.
Race starts at Xpm
That is all.
What about wankel & liquid piston engines? Same cc & same fuel load. Same exhaust emission permissible!
Eu aguardando a volta dos 2 tempos as competições da MotoGP 🇧🇷
Bring back the 2 strokes beasts
With the modern chassis and suspension of today's GP bikes and modern 2 stroke power there would be but a few that could handle that combination competitively. Im looking forward to the next Sheen/Roberts showdown. It would be epic!!
About time thank goodness some one has brains
Yes, I think Mick Doohan once said that VALVE ADJUSTMENT was his secret to winning all those titles with his TWO STROKE. 😂
Yeah, the throttle valve!.
Hope so a modern rd400 would be a blast
Make sure the 2-strokes has a swing arm front suspension.
How does it get lubricant
In this moment there are no investiments in two strokes motors.
Seria maravilhoso ver os 2T de volta ao MotoGP. A tecnologia desses motores e seus sistemas de alimentação e exaustão melhoraram muito (KTM, Yamaha e outros fabricantes que o digam). Talvez barateando custos tivéssemos um grid maior e claro, mais emocionante.
The biggest problems with two-stroke engines were the in and outlet ports. The rings were practically grinding over this ports, creating wear and tear. With injectors and outlet valves that stopped. Two-strokes have fewer mechanical parts and are easier to maintain than 4-strokes.
In the end are cheaper to build, with an increased life span.
That's not only valid for motor cycles but for car engines too, diesel, or petrol.
To make it fair, same cc must be the rule. In such case, 2stroke technology will be advanced.
Make smoke great again!
Moto gp will be using synthesized fuels in the next few years
KTM's had developed a direct inject engine that met CA CARB emission requirements in the 2000's,, yet was never produced for riding or racing activities. . Battery powered motorcycles likely will be the next means of powering all disciplines of riding or racing motorcycles. Ducati this season produced battery powered bike for MotoE, MotoGP like race bikes. Battery power poses a problem of lithium disposal and it's difficult for me to see OEMs except Honda or Yamaha having the money n resources to develop, make prototypes n mass produce new concept two stroke or hydrogen powered motorcycles. Battery has at least 15 years of testing n development already on them while being sold to consumers like The Zero MX/dirt bike.
good analysis
KTM still produce the 300EXC road legal enduro models, very good.
5:14 ". . . . let me just adjust my valves . . . " ?
Bottom line is the manufactures want fans to believe the moto gp bikes are very similar to sportbikes sold in dealerships. Even if the only thing in common is general layout and displacement (number of wheels forks a shock and 4 cylinders etc) but literally NOTHING is the same or interchangable between production motorcycles and motgp ....no matter how much production bike owners imagine they might be. At least the SBK bikes are somewhat similar
1:29 ...which produce nothing but water at the end of a combustion cycle.
Me: WRONG!!! It also produces NOx emissions as well.
Indeed! 👌
You didn't really explain the issue of lubrication
Absolutely with no 6 axis ecu cable operated t/bodys only no dara logging
Also very deadly to consider hydrogen as fuel in motorcycles especially a sport that is prone to crashing it will only bring more casualties and death than power and efficiency
Maybe with the right safety measures 🤔
Do you need an ickle quiet space and belly rub?🙄
@@mikejames4271 🤣
@@mikejames4271 me? 💔 yes please
Maybe Honda could bring back their "big bang" engine for another go?
Yeah, Suzuki already had a 250cc four-cylinder, fuel and oil-injected two-stroke for sale in 1989 for on-the-road use in the U.K..
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Sou do Brasil,acho que se um dia os engenheiros eliminar o consumo de oleo ele pode voltar
I was wondering how many times you would say the same thing reworded. Thankfully you had a limit.
2Stroke engines ban is another example of people acting out of stupidity and ignorance. They demonized them so much that we lost them for no real reason.
1000 cc two stroke please
Totally Unrideable.
The old 500 GP bikes alone took immense skill to keep them civilised on the straights.
Even tuned Vespa 2 strokes can be an absolute handful. There’s a tuning firm that made a 350cc engine for a Vespa Large frame for drag racing and they had to put a heavy weight on the front section of the bike to prevent it flipping over. The rider still had trouble keeping the front wheel down and that’s only a 350.
A 1000cc will make mortuary’s a lot of money.
2 stroke with direct injection and freevalve technology? 🤔 nsr500 x tipo134 x freevalve x engine mapping 🤔
water , and, nitrogen oxydes
Yep.
Twice the power per cc.
Not quite.. but more, yes!
Yahoo 🎉🎉
How bout a V4 1000 cc 2 Stroke . It can be done not 2 mention all the Potential Modern Day Sport Bikes . Let the True Sounds of Liberty and Freedom Ring
It’s Pie-in-the-sky discussion. MotoGP shot down the 2stroke years ago, and they ain’t coming back.
i might start watching again if they go to 2 stroke and no traction acc, to much electronics not fun to watch anymore
That would be amazing!
well.. 2stroke for the win anyday. Especially in MX.. and snowmobiles have relied on 2t in racing to this day. It just makes a better sound and smell^^. Both are actually as important for the live audience, as the speed is. You can have your 200hp+ 4t that sounds like a strangled kitten or a 2t that sounds like a pissed off panther... I know which one sounds better in a race.
There are so many problems in this video.
One: the bikes not being fast enough is not a problem MotoGP has. The problem right now is the lack of competition as Ducati dominates the others like we've never seen in the series.
Two: you list the simplicity and fewer moving parts as the upsides of two stroke engines. That's true until we bring direct injection and pressure charging into the picture. As far as I know, MotoGP bikes are still not direct injected, and direct injection brings a whole new level of complicity in the picture.
Three: no major manufacturer spent considerable amount of money on developing two-stroke engines in the last... maybe two decades. Yes, they still manufacturer two-stroke dirtbikes, but the dirtbike engines are not expected to be cutting edge, they more or less stayed unchanged for decades. Transforming the current two-stroke engine developing knowledge into building MotoGP or F1 level of engines would be an INSANE amount of development cost.
Four: the assumption of the paralel existence of a two and a four stroke competition is absurd. There can be only one top class per competition type, two competition would saturate the market and cause fraction.
no fvcking wayyyyyy.
Environmental friendly racing? It’s powerful engines burning thru the fuel.
2 stroke marine Diesel engines rule the shipping world.
Why use game footage instead of race footage?
Race footage is copyrighted and we need to respect the owners of MotoGP 🫡
@@race-ready are you new to CZcams? Your content is transformative. You can legally use it.
Comparing a two stroke bike and rider to a four stroke is like
comparing a violin player to a DJ
😅 bri g them back i will watch moto gp again
Yes please two stroke all the way 😂
Reduced mechanical failures and less maintenance? Trust me that’s not right, they need rebuilding all the time
So many flaws on your assessment of two strokes. You should have fact checked your info.