Fleet Logic Ep 1 - Exploring Fleet Power In Star Citizen
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2024
- In this new series we're going to be exploring combat from a fleet perspective, working out the best doctrine we can for our Org. We want to make this a diary of sorts where we record our experiments and test our theory crafting against in game scenarios.
But before diving in I thought it was worth doing a Session Zero where we establish some key principles and common language so we can all start from the same page.
A big thank you to Syila and SlyMako for letting me borrow some footage and their brains for this vid after they've run some initial events in this vein over at FC.
My referral code for some extra starting cash: STAR-MY2H-6P9B
Come say hi on discord: / discord
If you'd like to fund my burrito habit: patreon.com/loudguns
Thank you to the wonderful Anorii for the awesome backing music - Nebula One!
---Chapters------------------------------------------------
00:00 - Intro
00:35 - Channel Credits
01:09 - Session Zero
02:31 - Fleet Power
03:56 - Ship Classification
10:33 - Threat Assessment
14:24 - Remember it’s a Game
15:55 - Final Thoughts - Hry
Holy hell thank you for this classification of ships, this is exactly what I've been saying since I started, "torpedo boats" do not have hangers for smaller ships lmao
Haha well tbf I think this is kinda a point 4 thing - it’s a game. As much as we try to classify, in truth a Polaris is…”a Polaris from the game Star Citizen”. The devs aren’t constrained by the real world way of things…still for me it’s a destroyer 😂
We will be able to operate ships bigger than the javelin; we just won’t be able to purchase them so acquiring the biggest ships will be challenging but possible. Also, the kraken is more of a mobile outpost not necessarily for combat ships. We still don’t have a dedicated fleet carrier in the player-ownable size range. I imagine when anvil finally reveals its big capital ship, it will probably be a properly armored fleet carrier with internal hangars to go along with its line of carrier-based fighters and bombers. At least I hope it will be.
Yeah I would be interested to see another carrier. At the end of the day the Kraken is just a classically versatile Drake ship - it could be an outpost like you say, but it also definitely has fleet carrier potential.
I know they’ve said about the Bengal being claimable - hadn’t heard about others though. Do you remember when they said that? It’ll be interesting to see how they introduce the Bengals though, and one thing I would say is that they’re likely to be the preserve of a relatively small number of orgs. I wouldn’t be surprised if entire orgs go to war just to stop another org having a Bengal or similar large ship.
@@LoudGuns I’ve only heard about being able to find a bengal from secondary sources. I’m not sure when cig said it themselves. I’m sure you could use the kraken in a combat role as a fleet carrier but, being a drake ship, i don’t imagine it will be able to take a hit very well from something like the idris’ railgun or big torpedoes. As long as you protect it well enough, it should be fine but it’s nice to have a flagship that isn’t a glass cannon and can protect the ships inside it. I guess we don’t really know how strong the kraken’s armor will be though so it’s all just theoretical.
@@LoudGuns The other capital ships (cruiser, frigate, destroyers, Bengal, battlecruiser, escort carrier, were all introduced in stretch goal letters from the chairman as "flyable" or "playable", later specifying that for anything larger than the Javelin this would be by finding, capturing and restoring a rare derelict.
A thoughtful analysis of the game, both now and in predictions for the future. Thank you. You've given me hope and some things to think about.
Awesome topic, super excited that this is only episode 1
Thanks! Yep should hopefully be a lot more explosions and gameplay in the next one as well as the theory crafting !
@@LoudGunsis there still a second part comming or did I just missed it?
@@finnsane4848 hey, there is - but from the practical side we were keen to wait for MM to enter the game since it makes the dynamics more easily understood
@@LoudGuns thank you for the quick response. In that case I am looking forward to see the other Fleet themed videos! Master Modes really did something for the bigger ships :)
i do hope they add formation assist commands, I have heard rumours of fleet commands being in the works for 42
Yeah, some form of follow command for locking to a friendly and maintaining distance and orientation from them would be huge in so many areas of the game
@@LoudGuns CR'S Wing Commander way back in the 90's had a great system for your wingmen . Sooo I imagine 30 years later it will be amazing .
Idk if this is something that youd be interested in, but I built a pretty solid security team of about 130 people in a 600 person org, and we consistently beat a lot of noteworthy organizations in fleet, surface, and combined arms engagements. A lot of that success came from expiramenting the same way youre describing, and understanding how the different pieces can shine when supporting one another as opposed to being pretty "meh" when deployed alone. We spent far more time on tactical instruction than high level doctrine, but I'm happy to talk with you about that experience if you think it would be helpful as you plan out the series.
Looking forward to this series. While I enjoy hearing about a lean towards realism and that you can’t ignore current gameplay it’s nice to see an approach of sc being a game and all of the info letting us the current version of combat is far away from what we will see down the road.
Awesome idea mate.
I suggest you start small, maybe a blockade at a space station, and test how best to enforce it and how to break through.
Expand from there to control mining , if its at a lagrange point, or trading before working your way up to controlling a moon, a planet and finally Stanton....
Thanks! Tbh I think we’re going to start even smaller looking at just using and coordinating a fleet to take on some of the higher level Idris missions - there’s already a lot to talk about there just in terms of the basics.
I doubt we'll ever have player vs player "large scale" Capital battles. I think it will be more like modern carrier groups, where the fleets are one big (Capital) ship, supported by a fleet of non Capital ships. My Capital ship is the Endeavor, so my only interest is support, or industrial stuff.
I appreciate the comments on too much real world comparisons getting carried away! SC is a game. I game to escape the real world lol. I like hearing what real military or pilots have to say, on some things, BUT i like my games to take me out of reality lol
Been awhile since I popped by. Very good video!☺️
This is atleast 10 years away..
More like 28 years
More like 900 years away!
Realistically, this will happen as soon as Pyro, or any other system that doesn’t have facilities like hospitals, refueling, refining etc, enters the game, and ships don’t despawn when logging off. However long that next system takes is anyone’s guess.
@@goldbondmedicatedfoodpowder
As soon as Pyro.. This game will take forever since they keep receiving money from their playerbase on a regular basis. Do you know how much money have received over the years? Here is the number:
500 000 000 million US DOLLARS and this number is from september 2022 - it is HIGHER now!
Looking forward to more
A fleet and its makeup might be determined by whatever is at that time the HVU. HVU standing for “High Value Unit”. This might be dynamic within an org. It might be in one session a logistic cargo ship ( either doing a trade run or supplying materials for a base), on another it may be the carrier. Fleet composition will Ned to be layered regardless. Scout and exploration should not be forgotten nor the deniers such as the QED fitted ships.
Awesome content!!!
Amazing video!
Session zero. Good style as usual. LG, very much looking forward to the rest of the series. Thank you for sharing 🪐
Thanks!! 🙏
Incredible breakdown and expectation setting.
Happiness = Expectations minus Reality 😆
Brilliant and insightful as usual! I agree with your analysis, and hope CIG will implement a system similar to this!
I do think it's kind strange that people keep forgetting that the Tali has turrets and just put down as a purely torp ship yet they include the Connie's turrets
On behalf of people we are sorry! 😂
The tali’s a prime example of how real world read across doesn’t fully work in SC - it straddles multiple lanes in reality.
A great and very interesting video.
Thanks mate 🙏
Great vid. I hope you will address the differences in leadership knowledge/skills/attitudes/behaviours required at the strategic (policy/doctrine), operational (CONOP) and tactical (TTP-SOP) levels. These will eventually mark out the orgs that will be successful in larger fleet engagements. o7 PS Naval vessel classi has always been messy... even in Nelsons time! lol
Great video to set the basics for coming video.s. Polaris is My end goal ship with a crew, Marines and fighters on board. I like the Destroyer/Frigate Roles in fleet combat.
Fleet warfare is quite possibly what excites me most about SC's future, even though I dont see myself necessarily taking part in them because I'm more if a solo or small group player. I'd love to see actual wars between orgs, like in EVE but much cooler because it would actually be happening rather than looking like a lot of pretty coloured lines next to a spreadsheet (sorry EVE fans, the scale and ambition of your game are unrivaled but the actual gameplay and visuals just really arent my thing). Imagine a day when the super massive orgs like Test Squadron could block a rival org from getting their ships through to a particularly resource-rich planet or system. that org then makes a pact with some military focused org and together they go to war to break Test Squadron's hold on the resource supply; once you factor in base building as well thats the kind of scenarior that could create an ongoing large scale military conflict that could literally last for months or more of real world time.
Idk how any of that would actually work performance-wise on a high fidelity game like SC, but its fun to dream 😅
Looking forward to a 2nd episode of this series.
Sorry it will come! Just been more delayed than I intended
Cool idea!
Cheers mate, although all due credit to Syila for organising the events driving the idea!
I think CIG had said that they are looking to reduce the number of people on ships. Can't find the source off hand but I know it was in one of their live shows and that they're looking at around 25 crew for the javalin and not 80
Man, I love your content, maybe the intro could benefit from a bit of love ?
Loud Guns, submarines are my jam, and I'm interested in your thoughts on what I've got to say here. You might've thought of these already, but I think it's important to look at "subs in SC" as more than simply "ships that are stealthy and carry torps".
My Thesis: Talis can potentially reasonably fill the "submarine-like" niche of being able to strike from an unexpected direction (and I'll add, "operate in an unexpected location" to broaden the definition) because of three intertwined factors: Long Range, (relatively) Small Size, and Versatility. There is also one factor which is needed to be a sub analogue and which the Tali lacks, but for which one can compensate with the inclusion of a Terrapin: Enhanced Situational Awareness. These factors combine to allow a ship (or group of ships) to execute "stealth by avoidance", i.e., just being where the enemy isn't looking, which I think is needed for submarine-like tactics or usage. After all, if the Tali can't be used in a stealthy way, it may as well just be any other bomber - not a submarine analogue - as its position will be tracked by the enemy's radars and point defense guns. If it *can* be used stealthily, though, then it can either appear out of nowhere and fire torps before the enemy can react, or possibly even fire torps from outside of detection range, allowing the torps to coast in and be guided to the target by other, closer ships, e.g., a Polaris or other C&C type ship.
First, a caveat: I agree that the Tali is potentially a "stealthy bomber", depending on how it's used, but it is important to remember it is not a "stealth bomber". CIG has never said it is a stealth ship, or that it will get any stealth systems (do correct me if I'm wrong, please) - really, it's closer to a B17 than a B2. The only true "stealth bomber" in the game is the Eclipse, and it obviously can't be a submarine analogue since its single-seat nature clearly ties it tightly to a carrier or other home base, while subs operate independently.
Long Range: Subs are very independent, and don't need to return to base often, but can cruise around the seas for months at a time - really only limited by food for the crew. The Tali's crew quarters alone give it better range than any other bomber in star citizen, and when you add on its ability to turn one of its two modular bays into extra storage of food, water, air, and any other necessary consumables, I predict it can likely stay out for a *very* long time by itself. Being able to go the long way around enemy patrols, or wait for holes in them to open up, will be essential to execute "stealth by avoidance" and attack the enemy from an unexpected direction.
Relative Size: Subs are not truly silent, but are merely less loud than the ocean around them - their own noise blends into the background. The Tali, because it is relatively small for its payload, (prediction) will likely be able to blend into the background in a similar manner better than another ship with a similar payload, thus allowing it to get closer to the enemy before being seen, and further enhancing its ability to execute "stealth by avoidance".
Versatility: Subs are not only used for torping enemy ships, but for spying, for inserting covert teams, search and rescue, scientific experiments, and various other underwater and often sneaky things. The Tali, with its modular bays, will also be able to fill several roles (though maybe not all at once), such as inserting covert teams, possibly doing spy work, and the like. Modules types already listed or at least mentioned as being possible include: cargo, dropship seats, expanded living quarters, atmospheric bomb bays (vs torps), bounty hunting, medical, salvaging, and recharging stations for Titan mech suits. Lots of options exist beyond merely "sneak attack w/ torps", just as IRL submarines have much more going on.
Enhanced Situational Awareness: Subs can listen really really well, and can hear other vessels (especially surface ships) far before those surface ships can hear them. A major reason subs need to be so quiet is because other subs might hear them, so being able to listen better than the enemy is of supreme importance. If you can hear the enemy before they hear you, you can avoid the enemy and maintain your stealth. The Tali, however, lacks this key factor - it probably has a decent radar, as far as these things go, but it's not going to be anything special. Without the ability to see the enemy before the enemy sees it, the Tali won't be able to execute "stealth by avoidance" as a sub does, and it will eventually be discovered, either because it flies into an area it didn't know was being monitored, or because it won't know to avoid an incoming enemy patrol.
To overcome this limitation, and to add the missing factor of Enhanced Situational Awareness to a Tali flotilla, I would include a Terrapin or two to go ahead of the Talis and scout out the way for them. The Terrapin has a *massive* radar for its size, allowing it to do what the Tali cannot - see ships of its own size (or bigger, obviously) before they can see it. The Terrapin is about as small a ship as you can get, meaning it will show up even less against the background noise of space, and its ability to "see" much farther than other ships will mean that a Terrapin will be able to see the enemy before being seen practically every time.
Both the Tali and the Terrapin have the Long Range and Small Size, and each covers the others' lack of Versatility or Enhanced Situational Awareness, respectively. If all you need is a submarine's recon abilities, then just a Terrapin alone could do the trick tbh. But if you care about the torps or other versatility, then Tali+Terrapin = Submarine imo.
This is kind of why I put in that point 4. Because things are always going to be quite imperfect when we try to translate them into the game.
The tali is some form of mix between a sub and a Flying Fortress to my mind, because at the end of the day SC is just a game not a sim.
I think the tal ticks a lot of those boxes for being “a sub” but it doesn’t tick all because at the end of the day what it really is is “the retalliator from the game star citizen”.
The really important thing is that we understand the roles we want certain ships to play in the fleet, then we can compensate if one doesn’t deliver on every facet of the role. Great ideas for other things subs should be capable of though!
good stuff!
🙏 thanks!
I fear the day when I have to face a fully loaded kraken
Think carriers are going to be way more deadly than you think. Just like carriers today they don't have to even be on the battlefield to have an effect. It can site 300km away and act as a resupply for the ships it carries as long as you can jump to them
Drake Caterpillar = Mirai Fury pocket carrier
Drake caterpillar with laser cannons mounted in each of its cargo bays could be a surprise broadside blasting battle-pillar! Common modularity and deployable artillery/guns!
We did run some tests with that, a little clunky but it does work 👍
Theorycrafting can get a bad rap in this game since so much is still up in the air but it is nice to see a channel that's getting into it.
lol to think there will ever be large scale fleet fights is pretty crazy.
Awesome 🤗
🙏 thanks!
Yeah I think armor is going to be very important, and will be the thing that will finally rig the light fighter meta
I look forward to joining an Org where I can donate my ships to the fleet and dominate some sections of space!
I would like to see better anti torpedo measures, active and passive, ecm and directed arms, to complement the vessels. Seeing the Fury as point defence and boarding pods at some point.
It’s really interesting to see how effective hammerheads and Idris point defence turrets can be against torps when the servers get truly snappy. But one thing I’m also looking forward to is Ewar stuff like being able to jam radar or tracking for torps.
Wheres Ep 2? Hype for it
see you next time 2 mate
They will ONLY have a chance to balance capital ships if they ever manage to get dynamic meshing working. Otherwise the formula "bigger ships only work with more players" will not work (which is also the most easy way to add some balance to these ships because at some point the light figther meta needs to go and at this point, you will get problems with fighting capital ships because you either need a very organized group of players or OTHER bigger ships).
So having a big ship with 30 players on board be a moving lag spot (like it would be with static meshing) is something that stand against this method of balancing.
On the other hand if you are able to drive a ship like polaris / pegasus with 5-6 players very effectivly will make balancing quite difficult (you will pay a high price for enabling bigger ships driven by small groups of players).
The current idea of large scale battle is very enticing because its usage of player resources (you need many players to drive these fleet battles) could be one of the end game goals.
And it does not stop there:
The repairing of these fleets (after the battles) would also move quite some resource within the game. Capital ships also require dedicated infra stucture for repair, at some point players need to be able to provide repair for these on their own (running a repair shop for capital ships will most likely require a dedicated group of players to gather these resources and also provide the service itself).
These large ships could generate the need of quite some resources, it would be super benefical for the game if we see capital ships driven by a high number of players at some point in the game because the amount of multiplayer driven game play these ships will generate is totally insane.
Yeah when we’ve tried to simulate some carrier action using things like the 890, and had elements like comms officers to protect against collisions or traffic jams, and repair crews to switch out the guns and patch fighters up with hand tools the crew requirement goes through the roof.
There’s definitely tech hurdles but they’ll take time; we just think you can start doing some training now that’ll provide a head start.
Before starting I had commented somewhere else that players should organize fleets based on a U.S. Battle Fleet. ;-)
On to the video.
Ok, good work, but what about an equivalent to a Frigate (maybe protecting cargo ships or convoys suppling the battle fleet)?
Of all the terms used to describe warships “frigate” was the one where I found the highest degree of ambiguity! If I’m totally honest it went in my too hard pile 😂
I spend a good amount of time thinking about this and I'd love to hear your thoughts on drop ships. The problem with drop ships in sc is that 20 people in 1 ship are less likely to land than 20 ships with one person since everyone is a pilot first and troop second. It's less like reality since ships cost nothing once you buy them in game. Do you think drop ships can be effective in sc?
One episode that’s planned for the future is talking a bit about materiel and personnel. Right now you’ve got unlimited both (respawn yourself or a ship at a station then qt straight back to the fight), but in the future while medical ships might cover your spawns you can only carry so many ships on a Kraken. So I think Dropships are likely to really grow in role - I also think it’ll be interesting to discuss Dropships being used for boarding as well as for getting to the surface.
TLDR: Yes.
@LoudGuns oh that's really interesting, I hadn't considered the possibility of being far from a ship spawning location (Pyro maybe) but still having respawns. I could definitely see a situation where the ships are far more valuable than the humans like that.
Imo the capital ships should be indestructible to light fighter weapons, we will need a mechanic specific to drop/boarding ships to get Marines aboard and maybe self destruct or disable capital ships. Boarding ships will also need to be very tanky.
Holy copium batman, you are getting me excited again for this game! :)
Now I just feel like a dealer 😆
@@LoudGuns haha well I think people only really get into this game because they imagine what it could be and they are optimists. All your footage is in game in engine, so you aren't being cig marketing :) . Things like epic star wars scale space battles are part of that imagined game ..... I really hope it's possible with the tech! I haven't even been able to try xenothreat since buying in :( but I really want to!
Looking forward to the series. Could the Reedemer not fill where the hanmerhead was supoosed to be? Or even hurricanes, as light fighters in the Corvette class seems a bit depowered. As Corvette should be packing some punch.
The Polaris looks like it will be done by year end, so maybe not so long before a Capital Ship gets in game.
I plan to use industrial gameplay as the base to everything else. The Orion mines, and refines, which makes material for hauling. My ships are going to need repair, so salvage and repair allow for cheap materials to use in that. Not to mention charging other Orgs and individuals for services, including refuel.
The Capital ships I have, are for projecting and protecting my fleet from those who would do it harm. Especially since that fleet will be spread across the Verse.
Fingers crossed on the Polaris!
I’m just hoping you have the crew to man all those ships! Part of this series is going to be talking about realistic crew projections, and while some limited roles like point defence can probably be farmed out to AI, one thing we’re discovering once we add carriers with flight deck and repair crew to the mix is that the numbers get very big very quickly.
just a nitpick, but Destroyers aren't considered capital ships IRL.
I find it funny how loud guns one of the more anti hype youtubers, but watching his content makes me want to play the game the most
I think its not only for me, i got no recommendation or message that you uploaded a new video
YT is a strange beast. On the one hand I think you have to tick the bell for notifications, but even then it pushes the videos it thinks you’re most likely to watch and it likes to punish people for taking a week off making vids 😂
I guess this is good for people who didn't already understand the roles that ships play in SC. Not a video for me though.
Tbf it’s mostly about establishing common language so as to avoid future episodes being plagued by “well ackkkktually the Idris is a FRIGATE” type comments 😂
Great video. Why didn’t you continue the series?
Tbh I wanted to see how master modes panned out, I’m planning to resume with the release of the Polaris 👍
But, but, but, I don't like tea!
Out. Get out.
No seriously you can stay.
I just want my Idris yo
I too want your Idris 😆
If they ever get AI sorted then then I dont think you would be the one doing the firing solutions ect. Wait and see as always
Well to an extent your ai is doing your firing solution now - that’s in effect what the pip is? I meant more that realistic space combat would make for a very different game where it’s all about sensors as opposed to visual targeting because everything would be happening at high speeds and distances.
@@LoudGuns was talking about AI crewmen leaving the ship owner to fly or command in battle without making real players fill those ship positions. Thus it will be alot more fun and realistic at the same time.
@@doughnut4867 I reckon there’ll be a good debate at some point (probably when we see the first iterations of AI crew in game) about the right ratio of NPC operators.
Realistically most humans outperform AI, so are you going to be better off fielding less ships but with more humans? In a game I played (Atlas) there was a very famous video of one crew in a medium (size 3/5) ship defeating 3x large (size 5/5) ships because the crew fielding the 3 massive ships were over reliant on AI gunners.
@@LoudGuns oh yea first we need to wait and see if the system will ever be working. The other thing is CIG says AI crew will gain experience the longer they fight and live. If this ever happens, then I imagine for a gunner a rookie AI can't hit much at all, mid level AI can shoot well, the max AI can shoot like a broken AI and almost hit every shot. All speculation though as you said. Might never happen but it's the best hope in my opinion to make the realism more fun. If they make us ever manually unload and load cargo on planets and stations they BETTER get AI working lol.
So there's a large number of player assumptions here that sadly don't work out, mostly around numerical quantity of players. The idea of expecting large fleets to be made of fully crewed cap ships, gunships, and even heavy fighters gets to a ludicrous level of people, half as likely to go somewhere else or do something else.
Let's do a better theory craft so that the next video isn't a rehash of the "my 100 friends crewing an Idris, pair of Hammerheads, 6 Andromedas, and a dozen fighters" talk. That's already hitting some of the practical limits for a regional server allocation, let alone our current theoretical test of 200 per system/server that just happened. So bring the expectation and plan your content around the current number, which is a good number going forward to a. only take half the server at 200 b. max out a regional allocation (say around Hurston planetary system) of 100 and c. not expect a small towns worth of people on a tiny number of a ships.
Assuming that, we come to some revised numbers and assumptions. So a Jav? 20 people. Captain, Pilot, Systems Officer, Scanning, 3 Engineers, 13 gunners. It's unique on this list of ships as the Captain and pilot are separate due to management duties, and nearly every weapon is handled by a human. But this sets the pattern. 80 people on a ship is redundant, nowhere near enough jobs and players will just leave to do anything else. Next up, a Hammerhead? 6 people. Pilot, Systems/Scanning, Engineer, 3 gunners. We can even scratch the systems officer to save manpower or get a floater engineer/gunner. Why are we leaving 2 guns unmanned? Redundant firepower, 3 turrets handles almost anything in game now and is adequate for manic engagements. Future gameplay will see those seats filled with AI. Now for the one that seems wack, Connie/Corsair? 2. Pilot, Systems/Scanning, which gives us 80% of the ship. Again, we want manpower saved. If I 4 manned my Andromedas in a stand up fleet engagement, I'm down 1 ship to the fleet composition that 2 mans them. Sure, they might have a more assured time against light fighters, but that matters little when we're talking double the mainline gunships. So from this set of examples is a host of ships that would fit on the server as is, be at near top combat capability, and not require you to have an entire Mormon family to crew apiece.
Now, with these numbers in mind, fleet compositions come to mind. Theorycrafting a 50v50 symmetrical fleet engagment, the numbers actually look interesting and lively. Building around an Idris or 2 Polaris core, which takes 12 or 16 people respectively. 4 mainline gunships take up 8, 2 heavy gunships take up 10, 4 bombers taking up 4, 4 heavy fighters taking 8, and 8 fighters rounding the fleet out. A utility detachment for repair and support would use the remaining 4 people. From this we have ~23 combat ships and a small host of support ships, accommodating the majority of players. We have all services thanks to cargo bays and hangers on both capital configurations, medical, and high power scanning. While idealized, we've fit a full battle into our current playercount limit on today's servers.
And that's what this lengthy message is about. Being realistic, with both the game's progress and people's desires, while we wait for the layers of depth to add up. There's smaller things like how players should be able to use everything up to a Javelin with minimal prep and the expectations that fleets are going to primarily be PvE oriented endeavors due to how spawning mechanics will likely soften when they get to it, but that's nitpicking. Do like your content, just didn't want to see another person going "here's why giant fleets will work" and proceed to try to get the US Navy to play in their org.
I guess that I would change my thinking if CIG came out and said that server meshing was dead and they were looking to just focus on getting 200 then 300 or so player servers that work like the ones we have now. They haven’t given any indication of that though.
To some of your points. I don’t personally think you should be able to hop straight in a Javelin “with minimal effort” - I think launching the largest warship in the game should be an area which rewards organised orgs and creates some gameplay with a skill floor. Not everything has to be centred around Uber casual players (that’s not the same as saying there shouldn’t be anything for casuals).
Also I think there probably will be more instances of PvE as opposed to PvP where this type of large scale combat will happen. If it takes planning and prep to put a fleet op together you can’t just be hoping the other side will turn up to fight.
NPC crew for some lower key roles like gunning is also an option to fill out numbers. But that too will probably spark a lively debate - is it better to build a smaller fleet with full human crew or a larger one with AI?
That is the difference between you and the author (also me and many more), we think of what the game WILL be and not of what is currently.
If you really following Loud guns videos you should notice that, is pretty clear.
@@LoudGuns Thanks for replying. It's more an in-the-middle type server that I think they'll get up. So you'll likely see servers clusters with 3000 players on them, but those clusters will dynamically mesh on demand and up to strict limits. Judging by how other games handled this kind of regional load balancing, that limit for a complex game is about 200-300. And judging by networking standards, it's a really bad idea to throw all your eggs in one basket with multiple points of failure. So that's my basis for server sizes. Not bad, but definitely tighter than a traditional MMO. I'd love to be wrong of course.
Agreed, that's why it's an up to and not including the Javelin (we'll throw the Pegasus in here as well if they ever decide to make it, very similar ship). Vessels of that size ought to be perfectly reasonable to launch, but the running cost in fuel and wear and tear ought to make it nearly impossible to operate in the black. It definitely should be a negative ship. But I don't think that should apply to just about anything below it. It should simply be much harder to operate at cost or in profit, requiring taking more dangerous missions and running cargo in tandem. A group of players should not be penalized for wanting to run, say, Jumpgate patrol if the mission system allows it just because they're in an Idris or some kind of other cruiser.
Depends on the fleet comp for that in my opinion. Are 4 fully crewed Corsairs better than 16 soloed? That answer ought to be obvious. But then the vulnerability of those soloed Corsairs is laid bare when you bring in 8 heavy fighters with gunners. And that's what excites me about where we can be with the game. That's a good balance discussion, with pros and cons. Adding AI to the mix makes for even more granularity. It's an interesting topic to think on, and does excite me for the future.
There is no flleet logic in star citizen and they really have no idea how a Navy works, Military Idris in the game what I have seen in SQN 42 is a coast guard long range Patrol ship security ship. So it has cater for various missions, So lets look at a crew compliment size of 36 that do have beds, In SQN 42 they told us it is around 80 where do they all sleep. 1 Month on a patrol the crew will kill each other, The Mess for a crew size of 80 is to big it looks like it can feed 200 being on a destroy with 250 people on it the mess was half the size just about than what we see on the Idris. Bridge is too big for a 36 Man crew and after all the weapons and turrets and bridge is manned where is damage control team you don't have enough crew. Even got a Brig on board that is luxury compared to what the crew has. So they have very poor idea how a Navy should work. Just so you know every one on a submarine these days has their own bed. So 2000 years in the future I would expect the same. to me crew compliment of around 90 for the Idris seems right.
First?
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@@LoudGuns Awesome! Well looking forward to the rest of the series.
There won’t be large scale battles in SC.
Not with that attitude 😂
@@LoudGuns for the record I hope I’m wrong.
coping community
The mark of a good SC vid is the negative commenters come out of their burrows 😂