Realistic RSI Polaris Expectations For 45 Minutes
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Realistic RSI Polaris Expectations For 45 Minutes
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00:00 Polaris and Idris CitizenCon Demo
00:56 Introduction
10:02 Point Defense Systems
23:10 Liberator PDS
26:15 Combat Logistics
30:57 PVE will be GREAT in a Polaris
34:55 Polaris Place in the Lineup
37:08 Conclusion Should YOU Get it? - Hry
Since day one of backing in 2013 I've been wanting to be apart of operation pitchfork. I got all my exploration ships but I got some combat ships set aside to do my part incase the community decides to band together like the original idea and day one we push back the vanduual.
Operation Pitchfork will demand all kinds of player pvp and support vessels and stretch backers to absolutely limits. And I look forward to it as well. Was also one fo the reasons I back all those years ago as well at beigining of project and cannot wait to see the challenges ahead for us in the verse!
@@RedJay Absolutely the same. I love exploration but I literally was drawn in by the sheer want to as a community band together against something and I have faith it will happen someday. I'm ready for the challenge and want to be apart of history both IRL and ingame. I think since we inch ever closer we should all get a centralized discord worked on if there isn't one since back in the day discord didn't exist when pitchfork was being talked about.
If CIG today would make up an Aurora commercial... it would of course blow up an Idris 😂
Pretty much lol
Just wait until you see the new PTV commercial lol
@@darkstar0000000000I'm thinking Russian tank propaganda ad. The PTV sprouts wings and shoots down an F8.
@@robwoodring9437 I was thinking it could drive out of the back of a C2 and then coast through space as it floats into and then exploding out of the other side of the Idris as the Idris explodes behind it and the PTV lands in another C2.
@darkstar0000000000 know a good VFX guy? That needs to be made.
Great video, you talked about a lot of things I didn't consider or didn't know, so it's been really interesting. First time I heard this kind of analysis for a ship and I hope you'll make more of these :D I really enjoyed it! And btw, the things you pointed out about the polaris made me like the ship way more than that bit of presentation you were talking about ahah I got the chills (the good ones) while imagining the scenarios you depicted 😂
PDS will have firing angles like all other turrets. So a ship might have 1, 2 or 4 PDS, but how much of a volley is shot down depends on multiple things. Like how long it takes to destroy the torpedo you are shooting at, how fast the PDS can change targets, Range of the PDS (tracking and shooting), how many PDS has over lapping fire (and how much of the flight time of the target is in that over lapping fire).
There also may be different types. LAMS and FLACK, types will exist for PDS. A LAMS is basically Laser Anti Missile System that will use a set burst duration to target oncoming torps, while Flack cannons use kinetic rounds but send up so much shrapnel that it forces detonation of the torps.
Ideally FoF will have 4 PDS top and bottom with 4 PDS (2 left and 2 right) for maximum coverage. Thus making the rear/thruster array vulnerable to damage because the PDS wont be able to cover the rear perfectly.
This also gives a role to light fighters that their main job will probably be to knock out the PDS systems on a certain side of the ship. The Turrets wont be able to track fast enough to knock them down, thus creating a bigger scope.
Hence why fleet combat is going to revolve around formations. An Idris will never be alone as she'll have maybe 2-3 Patrol type craft around her thus increasing her PDS and FoF.
This is why I lean toward the Crucible. It seems like everybody wants to wield powerful warships, and the resulting clash of egos is guaranteed to create a lot of damage on all sides that will need to be repaired.
Crucible will be worth tripple its weight in gold for the players with patience to run one.
@@RedJay At worst, it'll be like salvage gameplay: a nice relaxing powerwasher simulator. But I think it'll be genuinely more interesting, plus you'll get to see a variety of ships every day.
I haven't decided yet, but I put aside the CCU and have a couple of chains leading up near that price point. My patience is strong.
CCU hold is a good idea, at the moment Crucible is shaping up one way and if if there is another suprise during the development to flyable you have some mobility while not missing opportunity to snap it up. @@mattp1337
Does the Polaris have PDS?
i know back in the day they said she have 1 automated turret in the back with 2 size 4's but, does she have anything else? i been trying to google, couldn't really find anything.
Hey RedJay I just discovered your channel through this video and I wanted to let you know that I found it to be super informative and I appreciate the obvious care you took to backup, caveat, and qualify your points, and how clearly considered and thought out what you said was. Fantastic work, and an instant subscribe. I have to ask if you have an org of your own, or one that you are a part of? I've been keeping my eye out these past couple years for orgs that have people who are thoughtful and into theory crafting like this and who are excited about the future of star citizen with its (soonTM) larger scale logistics and combat. If you run/are a part of one, are you guys recruiting?
Thank you. Always recruiting for my small Org and building partnerships! Reach out to me on Spectrum or In-game for an invite (RedJay)
@@RedJay I DM'd you on spectrum yesterday, but Im not sure if I did it right or if I need to add you on there first for you to see it though.
Someone forgot to mention decoy missiles.
When it comes to capital ship combat the goal will be for smaller ships to destroy turrets and engines. A torpedo is normally meant to finish off a target. Alternatively a large swarm of torpedoes increase the odds of some getting through.
Cleanup would be perfect for this ship as a role.
Well considering 750 now, it Will land on 850-900 when released.
I think so. Polaris will rise at Invictus Launch Week if I was to guess.
awesome breakdown and discussion about the polairis and pds, loved it.
Thanks Scott, glad you enjoyed it!
We plan on doing hit and run strategies when we get true capital v capital fights having a few Polaris’s and a ton of retaliators and trying to overwhelm PDS
Good strategy, especially if you have a small bait fleet to draw in the enemy cap ships and distract them.
I mean PDSs are seen on ships like the Perseus but the Idris doesnt show these right ? In case of the Idris its just a lot of ordinary turrets right. If you consider the Hammerhead turrets PDSs you have those
The K kit comes with 4 PDS to augment what is already on the ship. K Kit is just a pile of parts buyable in game but enjoy LTI.
great video red! i did some decisions making and trade my kraken p to a idris. the fact that idris can equip size10, size7, size5torpedo, size 5, and pds maks the idris a much well rounded captial ship in terms of combat.also the hanger bay, and argo utility craft gives it more game play then any other ships.
polaris is going to require a lot of credit for someone that is trigger happy on those torpedoes.
im not sure kraken will have those pdses. not sure if there is a size requirements for pdses. kraken listed to have 5+size weapons on the states page. bmm is good enough for me in term of trading. no need for the kraken-p.
Have a Polaris and I plan on staying far away from Capital ship battles if I have a choice, and use it as a Patrol ship/mobile base, for VHRT/ERT's and the like so I can loot the downed pirate ship's cargo for profit, and if the data mined info regarding its SCU being 432 is correct ill probably haul some cargo in it between patrols to mitigate its operational costs, but those torps won't be used besides for in-game events like Xenothreat where I can feel confident there will be enough other player ships involved to give me the cover and support I need to find the gap I need to launch my torps and haul ass out of there. They said they will up-gun and increase the size of all guns on Polaris in the recent ISC so I'm hoping that decreases dependency on those torps for combat.
Mostly perfect use cases for the Polaris. It will shine in thw deep patrol small Org base moving around... and was made for PVE high profile events where yes other player groups are there suppoeting as an ad-hoc fleet, and will only improve in value over time with its role being extra punching power against Vanduul Incursions evenutally... roll in volley or two... roll out to neew heading come back in on a new beacon in range of enemy Drillers for more volleys...
Awesome content!
Now you have me thinking about the merchantman as an extremely scuffed landing craft similar to the Idris. That thing also has 4 pd turrets, and the cargo bay is massive. Imagine.
The Polaris is the most 'modern' combat capital we have, being focussed on range, speed, highly powerful guided munitions, and information control, rather than just guns. Something people gloss over and I think is actually its BIGGEST trait is its Capital radar. Only the Javelin competes. This will matter a lot more later!
Compared to others in its price point it stands head and shoulders above as a full fat capital that bullies smaller ships with turrets and hunts larger ships with torpedoes. You have to go to Idris or Kraken for a bigger ship and that's a huge deal.
I do believe the Idris will have a more powerful loadout when done, which is why I'm aiming to have both a Polaris and Idris-K. The Polaris is a serious threat that can jump in to just about any fight and make a difference, the Idris-K is more of a big org base/multiplayer anchor.
I once also believed in the Capital radar aspect being an advantage, it is after all in the ship stats sure... but I believe the Idris series and even potentially the Kraken series of ships will also get the Capital radar not the large (smaller) radar. I do agree the Polaris is a heck of a lot of ship, especially for its cost, modest crew requirements, and all of the cap services it brings to the table in a tight package.
I also like it as a mobile base for a small group of players.
Absolutely, Capitals have enough habs and services to operate whole Orgs out of with larger Caps accomidating more players in the group.
Does what a carrack does but has more teeth. I don’t want to have to always run in a Carrack, whereas the aggressive turrets in the Polaris seem very promising. Carrack is no slouch though, but I can deploy bigger ships from the Polaris
@krokenlochen - yeah! That hangar is a must have for me. Im currently living out of the Carrack, and Ive learned to do things Ive wanted to do in the Polaris, at smaller scale (ie: 2x Furies as dropships in the rover bay, a pisces medivac in the hangar, etc...
I cant wait to have my options expanded to either scale up the size of our support craft, OR to diversify and scale up the numbers of the kind of stuff we are currently using.
@@Unit-ro6kmHow you find your Carrack when leaving it space?
@@Focke190 bed logging for the ship owner feels like its in a decent place right now. Very few problems for me, personally.
I bought an Idris, Polaris and a Kraken to my org, it should cover some of the military part that im interested in.
That's quite a spread!
I actually have a thought - are we sure that PDS is something unique and not just automated remote turret via blade?
If so, than a lot of ships will have them in the future.
It's exactly that, a pds is a turret with a free blade. The Perseus gets 2, but you can also turn them off and remote them. It's definitely going to be on multiple ships.
@@SeaRaven227 thanks for clarification!
The Polaris will have an Aries/ion type of meta grip in its respected field of combat in order to build hype and sales. This will definitely change once they get geared up to release the idris variants or other cap ships.
You’re right in the long scheme of things but as of what to expect when this thing is released will be an issue for cig because (my opinion) they’ll hit a point where any event that has idris or 2 or even 3 will be melted away by the number of Polaris owners bringing their new toy to play with. Until they create larger fleet battles it’ll still be lack luster like the old Zeno threat was vs a few tallies.
And bulk Polaris player fleets swooping in to take down multiple NPC Idris is no big deal - This discussion is more targeting the player Idris and player Polaris situation as these ships move out into backers hands. Just like focus fire of NPC gunners on cap ships being purposely removed, NPC ships meant to go down to backers also have less hit points then the real ship and of course only can be as smart as server FPS allows and behave in an predictable manner in known increments (i.e. ok when we land in this belt for this 5/5 contract 2 NPC Idris will spawn along with a Hammerhead and 4 F7As...). Agree completely meta's will change when Players have Idris series ships in their hands.
I know i am late to the party but id like to add my two cents. I mostly agree with your take of beeing limited by the factthat your ordinance needs to reach your target to be effective.
On another note people seem to neglect the turrets on the Polaris, even against combat capitals. The hull shape wich allows most turrets on target as well as the potential upsized weappons on those turrets (they are visually larger in the citizen con showcase than they were in the concept phase and dont match up to be the oroginal concept).
Hey Red , my idea is to have a Terrapin lead one or more torpedoes to the enemy Capital ship blocking the PDS . Also use the SRV to drag a small asteroid to hit the enemy ship as it shields one or more torpedoes . Take some skill for sure but I will be trying it out .
SRV idea in particular is very Beltalowda, would be great to test that haha.
You need to win the small fighters fight to overwhelm the corvettes using decoy missiles to use up pds and counter measures then launching your talis for the kills finally focusing in the Javs and Idris. This is why the sweaty pvp pilots are going to make or break a battle. The flow of battle is dependent on overwhelming systems. The topic was brought up in the video prioritize torpedoes . In my opinion the Idris will be the king of battle. But a king without a throne because once the Idris is alone it is doomed
@@itorca Agree , this is WWII Navel combat , air superiority with fighters , then take out systems and turrets on the larger ships .Then send in Polaris to mop up .
That's the only video I've been searching for more than a week. Thank you so much!
Btw, what do you think about how capable Polaris would be in atmosphere? I mean, since it has only 2 medium hydrogen fuel tanks while being a capital ship...
Polaris has a nice main and auxilary thruster layout and while I am doubtful it will have good fuel efficency in atmo it will itself will be rather good performer in that space thanks to its light weight for a capital ship, I am concerned over how the S10 torps will behave in atmo. Currently atmo effects are not an issue for missile and torp technology but over time we may see atmo impacts on these lowering their range and speed for balancing and just atmo flight models taking place. Bombs have to have a place and S10 Torps are too much all-arounders to make S10 MOAB bombs matter unless there is limitations of S10 Torps (discounting wide area damage needs or emplaced outposts niche roles).
@@RedJay I saw a video of testing S9 torps for ground dumb-fire bombing not so long ago and the damage was...bad. I mean not the damage but the AoE. I think such torpedoes may be used for precise targeting and bombing since they may have cumulative effect and not the HE like MOAB's do.
Thank you very much for the answer, RedJay! I'm struggling with the choice of buying Polaris or not at the moment, but I don't think CIG will ruin that ship's balance since it's quite iconic in the community.
As of PDS - that's a good point. I think if Polaris was capable of just run'n'gun Idrises with torps volleys, they wouldn't increase its shields and some other components to capital size to make it at least semi-viable in a fight with an Idris.
Im mostly lone wolf in game, plan to make Polaris my home base in Pyro. Ccu from Carrack. Bad plan?
Polaris will scare off far more folks until they realize you are flying it solo. I would recommend at least pickup a friend to help you barebones run the ship and offer some kind of playability of the ship or just stick with the Carrack. Both ships are much better off with at least 2-3 crew and on Polaris it will be easier to keep a friend or two on board because you can carry a full size fighter or bomber, so when they want to wander off they can and when they want to help out on board they can compared to the limited in capabilities and range Pisces of the Carrack.
@@RedJaysame is true of the Carrack, though smaller sized craft that will fit in the top hangar.
Piseces is a heck of a ship for sure, but it is limited in range so has to come back more often and also has more limited capbilities for offence/taking a hit then other fighters. Another factor is when you scale up Polaris can rotate through a few fighters/bombers to rearm & resupply a whole wing of such craft where Carrack is locked to Pisces series ships doing that capacity. So its kinda mixed bag honestly when comparing both ships (ignoring Carrack is the jump point / anomoly hunter whereas Polaris is more geared toward scanning down ships to hunt)@@dragofire5063
I am going to get a Polaris along with a hornet (once it's confirmed to fit) so I have at least one escort, I will maybe get a Storm as well for ground infantry.
Nice lineup. Storm in particular is a winner to me due to running it with a single crew on a smaller crew sized ship like Polaris.
The video was the perfect length. You made a lot of good points.
Thank you!
@@RedJayI own the Polaris
This video is amazing. Very good and in-depth analysis of this ship role and capabilities. Would you be interested in doing a similar one, but maybe shorter for every capital and subcapital warship, and Kraken, before Invictus Lunch Week? 10 minutes for each would bebthe same lenght like this video. Those ships will be avalibe to purchase there, and there definitely will be a lot of players to which such knwoledge would be very usefull.
Thank you! I am working on a Cap Ship Tier video soon - you should check out my Quasi-Cap ship Tier video covering many ships pre-CitCon: czcams.com/video/G0ArWuOPhUE/video.html
I think they are getting the polaris out by the end of next year bc there will be quite a bit of gameplay for it in pyro.. xenothreat is their and they have Idris's.. plus im almost 100% positive if a pirate org and just orgs in general or people will go in chat and be like hey there is a Polaris running around at pyro 2 lets go getem.. anywho but i do think the main reason they said they are getting the Polaris first is bc of pyro and the gameplay it will have to do there.. I'm upgrading my Odyssey to a Polaris today but I'm not going to enable the upgrade until it comes out because I really enjoy having a free Carrick lol there's not much I can do with the free hammerhead because right now I mainly play alone every once in a while I group up but when resource management comes online I'm either going to start my own org or I'm going to join one and when I do I would like to have one ship that benefits the org I join or the org I create.. also i jus love the way it looks..it looks like a space submarine.. also i love that it can carry a heavy fighter and even though it's really big it can still land on the surface of a planet so you could use it to bring a small force down to the planet have at least a couple of vehicles and a scout ship or whatever you want to stick in the hanger
For many the Polaris is what they wished the Tali was plus a ton more utility to support their buddies in Pyro, and that was my hope to reset expectations a bit with the video and get people thinking that mindset which is much better to have to make informed decisions. Much like you, many backers will be CCU'ing mid-cost ships up to the Polaris (btw congrats on the nice ship in advance Sean!) and this is a one way trip due to limits on CCU values, i.e. you cannot CCU to same value or below in value once you apply the upgrade. It's important many understand what ship they are truly getting because I have seen the sting of a flyable launch testing the ship on PTU and not seeing exactly how the ship was suggested.
I agree with 98% of your points, HOWEVER I feel as if one of the initial segments discussing the the idris being one shot had some largely over looked details such as the maelstrom system and physicalised damage, even if a single size 10 slips through PDS and lands a solid hit it won’t just drain hit points it will leave a gaping hole in the hull crippling the ship at worst (or best depending on how your looking at it) just a small detail I wanted to point out. Other than that 10/10 video you earns a sub my friend
Had a discussion like this with a guy in the yt comment section that though all he needed is a eclipse and a cargo vessel to pirate the BMM. With 4 PDS turrets and 2 capital shields an eclipse could possibly take out certain part of the ships if the shields are down and you strike it from behind where there is line of sight problems. So i imagine situations where larger size torpedos while they won't win engagments directly they will cause tremendous damage, taking out systems or parts of ships. But only if the enemy shields are down, PDS systems are taken out, depleted or overwhelmed. I see this being accomplished either by ships like the Ares or other ships shooting this systems down or a combined strike by ships like the Esclipse, Retaliator Talons, Vanguards, Freelancers, Constellation and gladiators (missile versions of course) simply overwhelming the defenses with the share number of ordinance coming in.
In my mind attacking an Idris with a Polaris should engage FIRST with a wave of smaller attack ships to pinpoint attack any point defenses before it engages with it's torpedoes.
A single Polaris is not a good idea against a larger vessel.
I can’t wait for this!
Polaris is going to be a fantastic ship for its roles.
Devs have already spoken out that in the demo, the idris was set to low hp and shields off. It is in no way representative of how a polaris vs idris fight will play out (or idris vs any other ship for that matter).
it doesn't matter who wins the fight, the reclaimer is the real winner in the end.
Wise words Birb
indeed@@RedJay
Of course, but it reveals _intent_ . This was further reinforced by the developers' comments immediately following the demonstration.
If an Eclipse can OHKO an Idris with a Size 9 torp, _of course_ a Size 10 torp which scales way higher than a Size 9...will kill it too. That was four size 10's. Four. All of them hit too, so either they totally exhausted its ECM/chaff/flares gradually, or they disabled them in other ways, or they just got *lucky.* Its not going to be that easy to do against a player manned Idris. People need to do the math on the sheer volume of damage that is, but they also need to understand that yes, that was a marketing tool. I genuinely think that the Idris will get an EHP buff before it comes to live.
I'm a proud Polaris owner. I will figure out how to get my torps to hit, the best ways to work with my group, and we're also Idris and Jav owners, so all it takes is time in the ship to get used to it.
Idris in game is not a real idris in the sense of armor, hitpoints, or damage control - additionally you have to factor in NPC turrets are purposely geared to avoid focusing fire "to make it more fun" per the Devs and it has no PDS systems. Just keep that in mind that Idris in game is pale image of a real Idris to be fun for current gameplay.
The best thing about the polaris is the speed
Absolutely! There will be nothing else like it in human hands.
@@RedJayit's faster than the Idris and the smaller Perseus that's only 92m/s currently
The Idris isn't a frigate at this point it's a slightly anemic carrier (really should have about 8 ships on it to make a squadron) Although I guess you'd rotate the ships through the hanger so five on patrol around the Idris and three/four being refueled, rearmed/repaired. At this point the Jav is more like a battlecruiser. The Polaris is more like a destroyer now. The ship has gotten quite a lot bigger, it's become what the Idris was originally envisioned to be when the scope of the game was much smaller. Originally the ship wasn't carrying capital class components or armour. Now the armour is capital class as are the components. The guns seem to have been shifted up a class also. The 'lore' around the Polaris and Idris is broken compared to what they've actually done with the ships. There now seems to be an entire sets of 'large' ships in the 100m to 120m range that do lots of the tasks we'd originally expected the capital ships to do. I really think the purposes of the ships is changing away from the marketing blurb used when CIG first trying to sell them.
A small carrier getting busted up by a destroyer isn't all that impossible. That said if the Idris were to launch a bunch of bombers the Polaris is going to have a hard time assuming that it's not carrying a heavy fighter. The Polaris IS the counter to an Idris. A Jav will just swat either of them away with it's huge anti ship turrets or size 12 torps.
Any swarm of torpedo bombers is likely to make the Polaris life difficult that's how an Idris counters a Polaris. I don't think the PDS is going to do all that much, because the first thing you'd do is send fighters to knock the PDS turrets out, which then makes an interesting conversation around the Idris fighter complement you'd need a mixture of anti fighter and anti ship bombers or within the fleet accompanying the Idris. Carriers don't self escort. Destroyers, frigate and corvettes do.
Idris is a frigate with a flight deck, much like a missile crusier using modern terms with ASW helicopter on board... but instead of missile cells it sports a single capital class gun. Idris K (a stack of buyable in game modules added/replacing to P's slots)/M is armed to the teeth and has PDS, manned turrets, remote missile batteries on M, and as mentioned the railgun/beam laser. Idris has redundant hallways on both sides of the ship engineered to keep it in the fight by helping damage control doing their job (i.e. whole side of ship can be blown open just use the other side of ships hallways to get to critical repair/firefighting location). Kraken series of ships are closer to your example of an aircraft carrier not meant to be in a slugfest, more meant to deploy its much larger flight of ships and then pull back to get more. I agree Polaris has grown in scale and complexity from where it started, I still hold firm that a Polaris being able to volley a rival capital ship is unhealthy for the game and all indications are that this will jot be possible. I look forward to testing out both Polaris and Idris series of ships as I own both and will be an amazing 2024 if both get in our hands this coming year!
@@RedJayThe Idris is operating fixed wing spacecraft. Not VTOLs, name me a frigate that has operated multiple fixed wing aircraft.....it's just not a frigate, it's a carrier🤷
Plenty of carriers have had offensive weaponry...still doesn't make them frigates.
@eaglemmoomin_418 VTOL capability honestly doesn't matter. Every ship has VTOL capability. That doesn't change anything. Idris is a frigate, as they come. Relatively small warship, 240m compared to Javelin 480m or even Bengal 990m, UEES Cervus is similar is size to a big cat.
Has capability for long-range missions, few aircraft, torpedos, AA systems (PDS and Missles), and sizable gun. Multirole ship capable of fleet escort or striking on it's own on a long patrols screams 'frigate' to me.
You need to remember that SC is a space sim game set in 30th century. Some of our logic may not apply here.
@@igorpniak8308 CIG buggered up, they gave it that description years ago when they had very very few ships......the Perseus is classed as a ....frigate. The Idris doesn't fit the designation of frigate at all. People are twisting themselves into pieces to justify a historical classification.
@eaglemmoomin_418 Perseus a frigate my ass. It's gunship and nothing more. Maybe a Monitor inspired gunship. Whatever ship matrix tells you is a lie anyway.
And nomenclature doesn't matter. CIG wants warship smaller than a Javelin destroyer, so they called it a frigate. It's a game, man. They could have called it 'super marshmallow space whale hunter', and it wouldn't change that Idrsi is a capable warship you will fear unless you sit in something bigger.
You cannot balance torpedo boat with a light carrier... You are missing one key component like with a game rock paper scissors. Carrier without its escort is a sitting duck waiting to be shot down so if Idris would be able to fend of Polaris and not die with relative eas then Polaris would be useless because it's not designed for long fighte it's more of a strike and reatret approach where Polaris hits and does not get hit back by anything it's size or bigger (it's a capital ship killer so it must excel in this role)
This carrier is a frigate sporting a S10 weapon system and 4 PDS turrets not counting manned & remote tradional turrets and 3 fighters... we are not talking about a torpedo boat versus a light ambpib assault ship or something like that. Idris is armed to the teeth as was purposely defanged for this demonstration.
@@RedJay again you compare two different classes of ships and Polaris is a capital class hunter killer not a front line heavy armored ship (to defend against torps you would need a support from Hammerhead or some similar ship that has much more "AA" guns)
@@MrFalkor81 Would you say a Polaris should easily slaughter a bengal without escorts? Or a Javelin? If yes, what is the purpose of destroyers? The Idris is a part carrier, part destroyer. If a cheaper corvette is a far superior anti capital ship then why would you run a larger ship? You need more crew, more money to run an Idris. That increased cost has to come with a payoff. A single Polaris cannot be the apex predator of capital ships. As much as the escort term is thrown around commonly a Polaris NEEDS an escort as well to successfully defeat an Idris. Then at some point it becomes a fleet v fleet discussion and out of the scope of this comment.
But why should an attacker be allowed to guarantee success alone while defenders REQUIRE escorts 24/7 to survive? This is bad balancing. The Idris has PDS systems to deal with torps. If you are a Polaris captain and want to take an Idris down ,you need support ships to overwhelm the PDS to let your torps through. Expecting the Polaris to singlehandedly kill an Idris effectively is just being oblivious to game balance.
@@ThirsttyRecon If the Bengal has no escort of Retaliators, eclipse and other anti-capital weapons? Yes, one single Polaris will easily chew it up. It has 28 S10 torpedoes, and the PDS won't be the auto Missile-delete everyone seems to think they'll be. Launch 4 torps at the same time and I'm willing to bet at least 2 hit their mark.
@@ThirsttyRecon you mentioned yourself this magic words "without escorts"... Any capital class carrier ship without escort should be easy to kill with torps becasue if this is not the case than how do you want to win this kind of battles without just hitting one Idris with just another Idris and who has more wins. Why should you bother with with smaller ships at all if in the end they are useless becasue big ships don't need escort? If you don't create at least triangle of power wher small ships kill torpedo bombers and bombers kill capital ships as they are almost immune to small ships than you create stupid power play where you win only by using share numbers.
They also want the game more like naval war games. Smaller ships in those games can just turn and dodge them
Especially with Torps smaller vessels will need to rely on manuvers for sure. Larger ships have PDS turrets and screening vessels to act as their torpedo protection.
I own a Polaris and I didn't limit myself at all. I just simply bought more ships. 😂
Fair enough XD
You'll probably use fighters to disable pds then it fires, if the make pds ballistic that also could balance it
Going into this assuming no support fleet with Idris other then on-board fighters and multiple small fighters or bombers with the Polaris... With the right load out (ballistics or perhaps focusing on distruption to temp knock out the capability) and big enough weapon sizes with multiple small ships coordinating and some luck and lack of any reasonable defensive measures by the ship in question, it's certainly possible. There are multiple PDS turrets spread across the ship and remember the ship can roll to get other PDS turrets on incoming targets... and when a Polaris shows up there is one main threat to focus on between landing S10 shots into the lightly armored torp throwing ship. And remember, you cannot PDS away STS turret and weapon fire.
This is just something like selling a standard Prius as a Ferrari beater. Of course they are only showing the aftermath of the battle.
So relax people, skilled players can always find ways to defeat certain situations.
It would have been far better to qualify the demonstration that way on the day of CitizenCon, or the day the stream feed was edited down for HD CZcams Video.
The Idris M won't be your typical ship. Most will own the Idris P/K. No one knows what "significant costs" really mean, but we can be sure that it won't be easy to get military capital ships since it's already hard to get military fighters when the versions have been purposely split up. A man with a handgun can kill a man with a rifle, and that's all there is to it. The best way to feel safe is to avoid people, not to outgun them. Anyone can die.
They said like a year ago the Idris in game now only has like 10% of the hp it's supposed to have. So she'll definitely be a tanky beast. I'm not too concerned. But it is one of the oldest designs so it also makes sense it won't be the best ship ever or anything.
I hope drive M is rep locked... and hopeful they bring other s10 weapons that are rep locked but unique. Like a s10 distortion from high pirate rep or something
i think you can fit a fleet of infernos on and or retaliators on a kracken so i think a cracken with the proper composition would own an idris
The Infernos have limited Ammo and those smaller pads we don't know if they will allow something as large as an Ares Inferno to run off of them. At any rate when they go to reload the Kraken would need to remain in the fight which means it would have its own worries eating S10 weaponry on a ship without military armor or damage control measures. It would be a full commit so to speak for the Kraken and extremely risky.
if you can fit a ghost You could have a VERY good spying platform
Polaris can fit a Hornet Ghost, good combo!
We love you Redjay! With or without pants.
:OriginBad:
XD
Another advantage Idris has over Polaris is that it can simply recharge the main cannon. Polaris has limited torps and I would imagine they would be a few million each to replace. So use them wisely 😂
Regardless, awesome ships to have and I am jealous if you have either.
That's the thing about this topic - both Polaris and Idris owners are going to have an amazing time with their ships provided they have realistic expectations of their excellent capabilities and roles. Agreed Polaris owners in particular would do better to act as a deterrent more then active attacker, unless a key target (or valuable enough one) wonders into their patrol.
In my own personal experience, the most fun I've had in PvP is when there is an element of "paper-rock-scissors" kind of like Eve Online. There is not "best" or meta or whatever. There is only the situation, and how to counter it with a good fit. If an Idris arrives on scene, and I know I can counter that with a Polaris, then I hope the Idris doesn't launch any Eclipses/Gladiators/etc to counter my Polaris. That's all it's about. Counter and match. Strategy and planning. Not Meta.
I spent a long time in EVE Online as well, over a decade myself, and remember there was meta fleet fits, just different eras of them weather it was battleships, T2 Crusiers, battlecrusier missile boats (Drake brick fleets), T3 Crusiers... and even just in Caps/Supers if you had enough of something you could just steamroll any resistence. Bascially you would take paper... and beat the scissors with an entire ream of paper then not just cover but pullverize the rock too while you are at it. The main counter to this was gimmicky things like bombs... that seen limited value over time and more importantly pos shields because ships like Supercarriers suddenly could not engage POSs so they were just there to kill anything that moved while everything else threw the POS into invuln. I mean this is the realistic nature of folks who deployed Caps and especially Supers in EVE. There was tons of strategy and planning yes, but not really about ship to use, it was most of the time just "how many do they have, how many do we have, whos going to bridge chain the subs where, do we have a logistics FC or just bricking this (in eras that mattered), any intel reports in their home systems any large spikes of their folks and their friends that may second wave for them, is our SRP able to support loses...
I think it'll be a rock paper scissors for specific parts of cap ships, more like PDS, torps, fighters
hopefully the Orion comes out soon
It seems like we're overthinking the Polaris power. We already have the Eclipse and the Tali. As strong as they are neither are OP. If you get surprised you're dead, sure. That's the nature of the beast. But if you spot it first you win 90% of the time. This is the same thing but one size larger. And don't forget these torps are the size of connies and just as slow too.
My goal was to reset expections and bring them back to manageable levels. Polaris vollying a Idris is so popular there are Discord Tenor Gifs covering it and "F The Idris" is a mantra of some across multiple SC Discord fan communities. CIG should have managed this hype a bit by putting a disclaimer on the YT HD Video of CitizenCon with the Polaris demonstration but did not do so, just cut the Devs joking about F the Idris afterwards that was present, and still is, in the Twitch original version I watched live on Nazeris 48 hour stream. It's great to show enthusiasm for the new awesome ship, heck I have one and looking forward to using my Polaris, but just setting unrealistic ideas in players minds of it being an i-win button is not great.
@@RedJay I feel what you're saying. But that's just capitalism. You can't have a marketing team and then tell them not to market the product. And you gotta admit the marketing team is phenomenal. You've seen the Kraken ad I'm sure. People are gonna get hyped. That's just the name of the game.
Marketing is fun and healthy is great at keeping game fresh and attractive to new and returning backers is most welcome. Its unbridled raw marketing though that is dangerous becuase while it has shorterm gains, long term communities trust will be tarnished and bigger the cost to each backer the more it hurts their trust in the project. There needs to be some balance between hypetrain and information to backers... we can have both.@@malikthebarbarian6815
@@RedJay We'll see what happens. By the time the release it and jack the price up another $200 everyone might just feel lucky they bet on it early. Lol
4 torpedos are necer supposed to land on in idris since its a carrier its supposed to have fighters swarming the polaris and or shootin the toprs themselves
Right, the PDS turrets, manned turrets, and fighters help screen threats like torps.
The Polaris does have a capital class radar as opposed to the Idris's large class radar so the Polaris should be able to see the Idris without being seen.
The biggest question for the Polaris is whether or not players will get tools to make torpedos stealthy. What kind of range will size 10 torpedos have? Will the Polaris be able to launch them without a lock and then provide a lock at the last minute? Will there be an opportunity for the Polaris to partner with a stealthy spotter ship (like a Terrapin) that actually provides the lock to the torpedos? What kind of signature will torpedos have that allows them to be spotted from a distance? Will that signature be able to be modified down by the attacker or up by the defender?
If torpedos are easy to defeat with defensive systems or impossible to counter, we are looking at boring capital gameplay. My hope is that CIG figures out some sort of system to bring skill into the fight. The more skilled/clever crew should almost always win, regardless of the weapon system they're using.
Picked up my Polaris for about $400
No worries here. Especially since it will just be our first cap for my Org, so great to train in, and hang out with the boiz. And who knows what gameplay loops something big but quick may fit into.
Will be a great ship for your Org and that is a great price, guessing CCU game pickup. Training a crew to work together for Cap work is currently in the 890 Jump crew deck and while it can be done it is less then ideal versus a true military Capital ship. Enjoy it!
I'mma get a Polaris. There are very few ships in game I actually want. I do not need anything larger than a Polaris....infact, *I* alone do not need anything larger than my Redeemer. But I have a lot of friends who want to like Star Citizen, and a ship like this (assuming proper PVE content for such a vessel exists) would be a fantastic way to get friends who want to experience something like this to play. I don't need a huge fleet of various ships. I don't mine, I'm not a cargo hauler....I'm dedicated combat.
Plus....this thing just looks cool.
Cool factor, can make use of it with friends, PVE content for it for a fan of dedicated combat player... yep you understand what its for. A lot of min-maxer kind of folks talk about it little bit of cargo... and then I point out there are better options. Another issue is wanting to run it solo and I stress you need at least a skeleton crew of players. It's a fun capital ship meant for pvp and pve for a small group of folks to run that happens to be able to be integrated into more advanced PVP fleet strategies.
@@RedJay I've never understood why people care about how much "cargo" space ships like a Perseus or Polaris have *unless* they're anticipating using that room for ammunition and other essential mission supplies. I don't know exactly how repairs are supposed to work on a major warship like this, when you're deep out in the 'Verse beyond friendly space-docks. You might need to devote most of it to Repair Paste (or whatever in-game resource they'll give us). Those who are looking to use that space for Dolovine will be sadly mistaken when it comes to what this ship is intended for.
The Polaris is a warship, through and through. From piracy to anti-piracy, mercenary and dedicated Naval operations, this ship will make a statement when it appears on-grid.
Can we please get the back log ships delivered and the classics like Carrack, 890, etc.. Gold Standard before we keep introducing new ships? Pretty please! BTW, also an Idris and Polaris owner.... Different parts of a naval fleet.. not competition for one another.
Agree! RSI flyable Backlog should be taken care of and concurrently get through other backlogs that are passes on older ships!
We would need the money from SQ42 sales for that
It's easier to release new ships with the new system then fix old ships with the old system on the new system. Or some excuse similar was what I was given.
Im late to this party. But ive always viewed the polaris as a kind of submarine analog. It is hunting ships of the line but once the element of surprise is gone its time to bug out, and re engage from another angle. Submarines were an absolute menace but hunter killer groups prepared for them would end them with little effort.
I get that analogy, but we are talking about a capital class ship with capital emissions and radar to help find targets. It would need stack of support vessels to attempt to sneak around without its radar on and even then it has the signatures of a small cap ship, which means it is easily detectable when looking with your own cap radar or scouts. Speed is critical for it to do its job and preferably the enemy is distracted by an already active engagement where Polaris can roll in at a good angle fire a volley or two and run away to reposition again to come from another direction adding DPS to the fray. Also I think Polaris will be excellent against a few different size Vanduul incrusion ships, but doubt it will sneak up on them without support.
Hey man, like the vid, but I fear you took that CIG polaris vs idris video faaar too literally. I don't think anyone realistically expects what we saw there to be even remotely true to real gameplay when the Polaris and Idris are finally in player hands. You did bring up a lot of good points though! So for those who did take that to be TRUTH, then this vid is def for them. I think most of us are sensible enough to know that it's effectiveness will be highly situational and we don't think we will be popping 8 Idri before returning to port. At least I hope not for their sake. Good stuff though, you earned a sub!
I said in another comment that this video would have been around 10 minutes if it was not for the rapid misinformation we are seeing in the community on Discords, and it got so bad there are "F the Idris" gifs (i.e. the torps till Idris breakup seconds) in the Discord gifs system to post to players hearts content and some players stated they were considering Polaris to be an Idris killer and making large decisions on their CCU options to get to Polaris and damn everything else. There was a sub-set of the community who took it literally and large part of this is aimed at offering a neutral position and a detailed take on just how things will likely shake out. Agreed on your positon that we need balance on these ships and new Polaris ownders setting themselves up for disappointment when they, yes as you put not pop 8 Idris then return to base. Thank you for Subing appreciate the encouragement Prismodon!
As an owner of a Javelin, Idris-K, Polaris, Nautilus, Perseus, HH and A2 (not gonna list all 15k worth of ships I own since this is about large/corvettes and capital combat ships) I must express to the masses that you need to know what role each of your ships fill and not be fooled by hype or marketing. I know several people that truly believe their Perseus will somehow stomp my Javelin into the ground for reasons that make little to no sense and when the day comes that they can’t they will be sorely disappointed and likely a little angry. Every ship has a lane and the owners of these vessels need to stay in that lane.
Also owner of Jav, Idris-P/K, Polaris... etc. etc. in 15K club I feel you on being careful on hype and encourage backers to do their research prior to making big CCU moves let alone Capital ships. More recently I have focused on encoraging those looking at these ships to talk it over with their Orgmates and Friends in the same timezone and ideally start coordinating fleet building with less being more. Agreed there are many roles ships shine at and owners must know them well... and also the limitations of the platform.
While NPC's are limited to how they are programmed to react, there is nothing really stopping a developer to have a primary NPC target to dynamically swap behavior depending on situation, giving the illusion of a truly dynamic NPC that can react to situations.
They are going to have to change events like Xenothreat, so may players have Polaris's that the event will be over in minutes with all those torps flying.
Instanced events will help with that issue. Just keep expanding the event instancing as needed with more and more Polaris fleets.
Lol, my friends and i used 4 Tallies and ended one in "minutes". Polaris isnt the only thing with torps
and add in dynamic pricing for the torps more demand the higher the price@@RedJay
They're going to upscale the Idris EHP a ton, I bet.
Well they already said they had to temporarily nerf the Idris hard for us to be able take down with what we had available when they first introduced it.
Did people actually think that is how the polaris would be? It was obviously just a cool video to show it off its no way near done.
There are folks in Discord communities and Spectrum who essentially believe the gif (the shortened shot of the Polaris firing volley until Idris blows up) as verbatim.
It's big, it's sexy, it has lots of features, and it'll be fun to play with friends. That's why I got one. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that. (Although if it can't hold tanks in its cargo bay, I'll be pretty annoyed--Origin ships can, a literal combat vessel that's supposedly state of the art and meant for patrol/militia operations/search and rescue should be able to fit at least one Nova.)
Agreed on tank and some assorted smaller vehicles. The hot bunking of the hangar for a whole group of fighters at midpoints resupplying them is also quite powerful
Polaris expedition module?
Would love to see it!
Weird they didnt start the Perseus first then polaris then galaxy but whatever feel polaris is gonna be kinda strong/maybe underwhelming we will see.
Think in right hands with a good crew will be incredible at PVP and underwhelming in PVP with low crew count and not deployed in a good setup... good scouting of targets... on flipside it will be a PVE god regardless.
Bro, Im so high, I thought that was Jared talking for the entire time he was holding the mic in your voiceover. Im going to go lie down
haha, have a safe night
Retaliator vs hammerhead
I watched The whole video and ive been sceptical of The Polaris power for a while. BECAUSE of balancing reasons.
If The polaris would be as strong as it shows on that Polaris VS Idris video, then why would anyone buy anything else then a Polaris.
That would just be a game where Polarises fighting other Polarises all The Time cuz no one is flying anything else.
That would be boring AF.
PDS Will be a very important tool for bigger ships and it Will draw down The use of a single polaris vs a single other ship.
I mean lorewise The Perseus had no shield during its time and it was relying on its PDS to keep it safe and it did.
But indeed a Polaris Will be Great if you have a team to back it up and keep your targets PDS busy.
Exactly Kiridox, Polaris with a fleet ready to integrate it can work well and by itself will face stiff problems just trying to sneak attack a random healthy and crewed cap ship. I have to agree if everyone was just crewing Polaris ships that would be boring... but it will be a quite common site at combat sites until Percy, Idris, and Naut rollout to break it up a bit. And yes strongly suspect our Perseus will have shields just weak one over thier armor. Thank you for watching and joining fhe discussion!
Keep in mind people regularly crash into hangars all the time, don't underestimate how bad some players are.
Many of those folks will be waiting on long insurance claim times in the coming years. @@nuclearsimian3281
@@RedJay happy to join in cuz i had this discussion with a Polaris friend the other day and now he might not want the polaris anymore xD I told him to keep it if he likes it but dont expect it to be broken OP as it is being claimed to be :P
… idk if I missed something but what is a tally?
Retaliator bomber, the first bomber they ever presented. People like to call it a Tali
Karma is spot on, also in the first major SQ42 Trailer where a main character announces "Tali's on me" on a torp bombing tun against Vanduul
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea of the Lib being secretly worked on and dropping alongside the Polaris and Pyro but they've done only a few weeks of work on the Lib in 2021 for the concept sale and that's it. No way it's coming with Pyro unless Pyro is over a year away
Liberator was invented to act as the ferry to Pyro for small Orgs and Devs stated many times it was meant to be easy to develop and simplistic in design to help it be ready for Pyro. It has currently 2 crew (but I suspect that will grow to 3) and meager offensive weaponry combined with its lack of pad services mean its main tech blocker is working PDS turrets. It will be out for Pyro.
@@RedJay Lol the Liberator was not invented solely for Pyro and Pyro isn't even the largest system by far. It's a ferry but if they make it a requirement for Pyro sized systems then they would essentially be systems locked to whales. They do not hide work on the progress tracker for anything that has already been announced. So long as Pyro is coming out within the next year, the Liberator will not be dropping with it. They've already been adjusting all the ship's QT tanks in the Pyro playtest which will allow everyone to hop in when it drops.
PDS is not the way to sort it, because it just makes torpedos then entirely useless if they are an i win button against torpedos.
We already know that ships will have precision targeting mode. I think that having something like an Ares Starfighter will help a lot to destroy one or two PDS and then launch torpedoes to the unprotected zones of capital ships.
To not just be a debbie downer: it needs to be somewhere in the middle. I honestly would rather torps be like Freespace 2 in how they operate.
PDS will have limitations, John Crewe noted PDS systems were added to Liberator to avoid it getting volleyed by torp threats (paraphraising)
they can also limit those torps by their prices. I heard size 10 torp might end up being the price of an avenger titan. so you are basically throwing avengers each time you pull the trigger.
yeah, I mean size 10 torps have pretty high hit points. maybe they will also have armored size 10 torps. LOL
6 S9 Torps are enough for a Idris at Xeno Threat or Arlington. So 4 S10 with more damage and Armor Penetration...enough for NPC Idris. For Xeno Threat Event a Polaris do the 4 Idris there alone for sure ;)
NPC Idris is signifigantly smaller HP then a player Idris and Devs stated they removed the ability for its weapons to do focus firing to make the experience more fun. Additionally it lacks the Idris PDS turrets and its escorts are currently less then ideal not acting as screen vessels. Its an experience calibrated for current player ships and good data point but one to carefully qualify with its differences from the real Idris series of ships. With that all out of the way, what I getting at is the scale of that NPC experience should be updated pending Idris release to be tougher but payouts better for Polaris and other soon to be in game Capital ships as a new level of content!
You make a lot of good points, however the Polaris is not a hunter of wounded and depleted capital ship. A Polaris vs a completely new and operational Idris one v one? The Polaris will win 8 / 10 times. It's a guarantee. It's his job to hunt capital ships. Not in pack : alone. it's a ship designed for all intent and purpose to not only fill it's role within a fleet, but also be flagship of frontier militias and designed to operate alone first and foremost. It will definitly fill the role of an Idris in a pinch, although not as tanky. But you can use it as a capital ship buster on it's own, dropship for large operation, serach and rescue, whatever comes to mind. The Polaris is a Carrack on steroid.
I also think you speak much too highly of PDS. They won't be the be all end all of anti torps and missiles, and I think 2 - 3 torps will be more than enough to saturate and PDS systems. And why using an expensive torpedo when the Polaris has more guns than a gunship? The Frontal S7 turret will be more than enough to take care of the Liberator. And about escort ships? Unless your liberator is escorted by a wing of Retaliators, or other capital ships, there isn't a lot fighters can to to scratch the paint of a Polaris. Yes, it has light armor, But it's light CAPITAL class armor.
ON the CCU game, the best way to play it is getting all the CCU you need and not apply them. Be pacient, wait, enjoy the ships you have, and apply them once the Polaris is in-game.
All in all, I really liked your video, although I don't agree on everything, and it's good to think and speculate on such ships. We'll all know everything once the ship is in-game.
Untill the size 10 gets a shot off
@@evobsm2328 One S10? Sure. Throw 4 at the same time? PDS will get maybe one or two. It's S10 we're speaking about, only ine needs to reach the target, and PDS are not the infailible systems people make them to be. You won't need more than 2 or 3 torps to "saturate" them.
@@captainharlock3998 i think you are forgetting that having gunners and fighters shooting down your torpedoes is a thing as well. I think you are forgetting that little crucial detail. People shoot bombs down in this game. Shooting down a slow a$$ torpedo wont be an issue. And im sure that you will need at least 2 torpedoes to take out an idris at the verry least. 1 for all its shields and the other for its hull. Pds distracts one the other hits. A fighter shoots one down and another misses. You now need to reload for a loooong time before you can fire 4 more. In that time the idris would have taken more shots at the polaris and probably closed the distance in wich the polaris wont be able to fire its torpedoes as they will have a minimum range. You can see where the rest is going.
@@captainharlock3998 where as i have never heard of someone destroying a projectile comming out of a gun in this game. Also one s10 railgun shot to the face and you say "sure" carracks have been getting one shot by the idris. Lets say the polaris is a little tankier and takes 3. Its still 3 shots. And since you can fire that thing point blank it doesnt need to keep distance in mind unlike torpedoes.
@@evobsm2328 Shooting down torpedoes is possible but very hard, and it will only get harder. As I said, people really overestimate the effectiveness PDS will have, and especially manned turrets. And it's one thing to shoot one torpedo. Polaris shoots 4 per volley. And with S10, only one needs reaching it's target. And when have you reloaded your 4 S10 to know already what it will be? It's under 10 seconds to reload 4 S9 torps. The Railgun of the Idris takes more time to reload than that.
The ship is designed to be a monster. You need a lot of ships not just fighters to take it down now with master modes.
torpedoes should be countered by shielding and automated defense systems such as turrets and countermeasures. The logistics and costs for acquiring size 10 torps alone should have an effect on the use of the Polaris. Does the US use nuclear subs? yes, are they in combat all the time no, they are expensive special use vessels. Does the UEE have them? yes Do the Vanduul have something similar? Probably better, run human run.
Footage of an Idris knocked out in a single volley? That Polaris must be almost as good as the Ares... 😅
Yep, just like the Ares demonstration lol
You're not going to be soloing a cap ship with an Ares, but a size 7 gun with size 5 missiles is a mean puppy.
Consider how many people it will take to crew an Idris and what fraction of that number, if placed in Ares, would make for a viable threat. 😅
quantum entanglement mines
Would certainly change the landscape of mine use and be a nice EWAR/Support implementation
*idris goes offline, polaris calls vulture and reclaimer cleanup crew to disassemble ship for high payday* epic win
You can already drop an Idris with 6 S9 Torps.
Why do you think 4 S10s wouldn't do it?
Not saying thats the way the game will be in the future, but just scaling missile damage up by one size, 4 torps dropping an Idris makes sense in our CURRENT game.
NPC Idris in game is just a pile of hitpoints which is signifigantly scaled back to make it practical to fight, which also includes its turrets not purposely focusing fire to defend itself to make it "more fun" for the players fighting it.
It is only appropriate for a Polaris Captain to chant the "The Charge of the Light Brigade" poem before ordering an attack run.
Would be suitable haha
@@RedJay I've commented about this on Reddit, I see Polaris as similar to a lancer or Hussar unit, and I believe similar doctrine and tactics could also be adopted in Polaris deployment. A Polaris captain should always try to maintain a running battle and avoid getting dragged down into a slugfest with other ships, even a Perseus.
CIG sells dreams and feels, not JPEGs
If people haven't figured this out yet, I would ask what rock you've been living under for the last 20 years. This is an industry standard practice and this happens in every game with microtransactions. If it is an FPS, it is with guns. If it is a racing game, it is a vehicle. If it is an RPG, it is a piece of gear or maybe a set of pieces. If it is Star Citizen, it is a ship. When something is released, they purposely release it buffed and overpowered. This creates a sense that it is what everyone wants so they can be competitive. Then, after it has been out for a while, usually 3-6 months, it gets nerfed in the name of "balance" and everyone gets upset, but the anger wears off shortly after or when another 'OP' item is announced. Now, I have spent thousands on Star Citizen. But, I do not have any delusions that my ships will always be the way they are when I buy them. I know they will be nerfed. I know they will be changed. And, I know people are going to get pissed about it always. So dumb. Grow a brain and learn this is the 'rinse and repeat' practice of every game in today's world. And, it even goes beyond this industry. The automotive industry has been doing this for decades. The Firearm industry has done this for nearly 100 years. The Tech industry has been doing this since the inception of the transistor. This is common practice for industries who sell anything.
CIG tends to not be completely over the top with the hype and hints of this ship is OP buy now angle in past few years... balancing the hype building with "Look it's a really cool ship buy now!.... but if you want to dig and research we'll gladly provide you more info before you buy it." This to me was a setback on that balance, and my video here was trying to offer that deeper dive CIG should have offered to those looking for what are the limits of the cool soon to be flyable ship. I get many sectors do it, but in our small community we usually have good communication with the Development and Community Teams out of CIG, I guess you could argue above industry standard.
when the Polaris is out of Torpedos it cant do shit anymore i guess
Resupply of Cap ships is going to be a major part of Org work. Combat logistics and fleet resupply all go hand in hand to excercise power by Orgs beyond what a semi-organized gang can offer.
“Honest review from someone who owns Polaris and idris”
I own them both too and to be completely honest with people it’s way too soon to make any sort of assumptions especially since mastermodes with the slowdown of ships and engineering has the potential to completely change the gameplay involved with not only these ships but all of them.
It’s it’s hard to say how the Polaris will operate… will missiles be slowed down just like ships in mastermodes??? If not than we may see a torpedo boat like the Polaris completely controlling entire battles.
ppl I talk think its going to be this invincible ship..
Got a ballista and started shooting a2's c2's heavy fighters..
THEY ALL dodged easily ALL of my missiles..
Server fps was around 13.
And those missiles are fitted for that size of ships.
Just see reality boys... Flares dont even work reliably now.. Once they do the Polares won't be much shit.. I own one as well..
I do agree that Polaris S10 Torps will be not guaranteed DPS, even in some cases very little success rate, but I believe that the torpedoes' will be tuned up until relevant against specific targets, like quasi-caps which will see Polaris as a major threat. Good point to mention server FPS was high during the test during your Balista tests, it helps remove a major confounding variable from the discussion.
@@RedJay yes! thanks man.Also as an Idris owner i can see the same point defense systems being implemented to other ships.
My idris-K has some defenses that are specifically against missiles.
Lets see how that plays out as well.
Would be very boring if every single capital ship in the game gets destroyed like trash cuz missiles...
When it comes to ships on a server CIG can assign a ship as it's own server. So 10 ships with 10 crew each would count as 10 entities on the server and then you would have 10 virtual servers for the crew.
People often don't understand Naval doctrine when it comes to this. Think about it like this; the Polaris is like a submarine in an invisible ocean, while the Idris is your general purpose jack of all trades master of none vessel. The Idris is basically a cheap ship the Navy can use to throw in the way of larger more expensive ships and a ship to send to solve a problem that can't justify a Bengal and entire Carrier Task Force.
I get where you are coming Glory, but want to note the Polaris is the smallest capital class vessel in the game. People will know its out there hunting, especially when its not tandem with a scout ship and trying to use its Captial class radar to find prey. Submarines enjoy the fact that surface vessels can not easily literally see them coming nor use surface radar tracking to "see" them hidden by the unique properties of cold/hot water they cloak themselves in. In SC the easiest comparison to a submarine is the Eclipse bomber with her stealth torp ls but Size 9 Torp and payload reduced, and to a lesser extent the Tali Size 9 but enjoying 6 torps to use and I guess could be compared to a loud, agressive submarine meant to sneak but then go all out on attack run, enjoying the much smaller ir/em/visual signature compared to a cap ship until closer to target. On the Idris series thoughts I agree, its a multi-role cap ship meant to be used on its own with a small support fleet where UEE cannot afford to send larger vessels and also can be integrated into larger fleets. Idris also happens to be the best combat logistics ship for planet/moonside work in the game, due to its incredible size, VTOL systems, and giant ramp out the aft hangar doors all in one neat package - but that is just one of many niches it fills to varying levels.
@RedJay A Polaris's submarine comparison I spoke of comes from a more psychological effect than a visual effect. An experienced ship captain can take a guess as to what something is from size alone. Get to close at the wrong angle, and she's got you.
Any ship in real life can't survive 4 torpedos. They're torpedos.
Imagine if a whole gauntlet of close-in weapon systems were circling the belt of the ship and calibrated for just knocking out those incoming torpedoes like CIWS currently do with cruise missiles. Furthermore, it all depends on where the ship is hit. If all of them hit the same point on the ship depending on tonage the ship can have its entire bow or stern blown off and remain afloat with military damage control... and then we get to the whole we are talking about space armor plating and shields here and ewar on top of the CIWS/damage modeling. The headline is the idea of Polaris just cracking off a single volley of torps and insta-popping an Idris is absurd.
Many warships have survived being struck by over 4 torpedoes, I think it makes sense though if idris died to a full torpedo volley if the torps are slow and easy to shoot down, or bring a CIWS equivalent with its equated fire rate (I'm still salty that the rotary guns fire so slowly in this game.
anyways the jav have size 12 torps.
Indeed! Jav is a beast.
They're gonna be super slow though. Anything smaller than an Idris will be a questionable target most likely.
The BMM will probably destroy an Idris, or more likely a Kraken (Trader vs Pirate and all that)
No way BMM with 2xS8 will clap Idris. Kraken, possibly, depends on which ship has better shields and armour. But any ariwing on Kraken make this fight one-sided. BMM is armed merchantmen, but still only merchantmen.
@@igorpniak8308 It would depend on what weapons they are and if they are bespoke. Dual S8 ballistic railguns would ignore the shields and depending on where you aim the armour will be thinner.
Now, it sure as hell will not oneshot another capital but i would not underestimate a pair of well placed shots into weaker armour of an Idris.
@niklasdahlgren7641 No matter if those S8 are bespoke or not, they are only two of them. On a ship that dedicates the majority of its mass and size to cargo and trade. It doesn't stand a chance against simmilary sized, dedicated fellt going warship, with more armour and 13 M sized shilds as a backup. Size 10 railgun, currently able to oneshot Carack, size 7 STS turret, S8 torpedos and up to 3 fighters will make a quick job of what is at best armed merchant man. There is no comparison here unless Idris is badly wounded and out of power. Bit at this point, everything with S9 torpedos or S7 guns would solo a drifting wreck
@@igorpniak8308You do realize that the damage model is not final? And that S8 weapons ARE anti-capital ship weapons AND that the shields are irrelevant against kinetic weapons?
Im saying the guns, if hitting the right spot can do serious damage because ships will not have hitpoints in the end.
@niklasdahlgren7641 Yes, I acknowledge that. And are you aware that Idris is heavily armoured? It's a WARSHIP. Even if BMM could damage it with only 2xS8, 1xS10, 2xS7, S8 torps, and 3 fighters, it will deal with glorified cargo haulier fast enough to even balistics being irrelevant. BMM will not solo a Capital WARSHIP. If you own one with that in mind, you will be disappointed.
you dont need a pds you just need the torpedos to be very expensive and destroy all remains and cargo inside smaller ships. yes they could waste money trolling people but thats more of a money sink issue than the ship itself at that point. these should be tactical ships used for specific types of combat. maybe you launch a torpedo in an emergancy if your going down anyway but shouldnt be something they just throw away at a whim.
When you're selling a new system platform, you don't pit the platform against a weapon that can beat it. You pit it against a weapon that is currently on top of the food chain but gimped.
A good example the Patriot System/HIMAR systems. When they were being tested, in drone flights the planes used were F-15's, F-16s, and F/A-18s. Why those planes in particular...the F-16 is the most widely distributed US aircraft to her allies. The same with the F-15 that boasts a 104 to 0 K/D ratio and the F/A-18 is also combat capable naval strike craft. Its to sell to congress that if it can shoot down our stuff, then our enemies will have an even harder time overcoming the system itself. I mean other planes were used captured Russian and old F-4 Phantoms...but those planes were no issue for these systems when they were being tested back in the 80s. The same with the Patriot batteries were tested against US made Minutemen Missiles showing that the system was capable of destroying on par weapon systems.
Hence why using the Idris as a whipping boy makes sense. its the first rugged and ubiquitous capitol ship that a player can obtain (eventually salvage) for their org. Its not that the idris is weak, its to show that other ships can in fact deal with a Frigate class warship, although maybe a bit gimped...however it sells itself well enough.
Indeed Polaris attacking an Idris without it's PDS, no evasives, no defensive fighters doing anything, no turrets attacking, no S10 weapon turning ship to shoot back... Idris has been the target of many new anti-cap combat platforms in game. But there needs to be disclaimers on this type of video and the onus should not be on community to clear these things up while CIG is selling large amounts of the Polaris. I get the combat demonstration angle you detail but there is a way to sell big shiny hardware and also be honest about the limitations of the excercise/demonstration.
@@RedJay Agreed 100% with what you said. However if the Military Industrial Complex was 'honest' just as much as we're asking CIG to be 'honest'. Then there'd be on way Turkey weapon platforms would get funded/purchased (F-35/Littorial Combat vessels). I mean if we're going to pose it this way, no one would buy a Corvette Class ship like the Polaris when you have a Frigate class like the Idris that can do majority of what a Polaris can do and you have the Javilin as a Destroyer.
Conversely there's a major reason why most government's now do not use Corvette class warships anymore, a Frigate and Destroyer are far more capable ships that comprise multi-role functions.
I honestly wouldnt buy with cash a Polaris...even seeing it. I rather use more multi-role type ships. However for planetary/base defense a strike group of 4 Polaris ships can be very destructive or at least slow down enemy action until the main fleet shows back up for defense.
I get where you are coming from, I mean if a backer can afford it and wants to have that "one and only cap ship for the Org" so to speak then it would be best suited to get a Idris or Kraken series ship depending on needs of Org. Polaris still has a place and like the ship just see many backers being disapointed with Polaris and not being able to CCU upwards, only melt and start over being option if they want a cap ship and Polaris is not the ticket they wanted. @@grygaming5519
@@RedJay Tbh...I feel the Polaris is one of those ships 'desinated' for in game purchase only, its just they put it out to see if people would buy it. I wouldnt be against some ships being earnable in game and honestly going forward they should start adding in-game exclusive ships to be earned for aUEC as money sinks.
Poor Idris’ they be getting slaughtered out there 😂😂
Whenever a new kid on the block, they gotta go throw snowballs at the Idris house lol
@@RedJay they said many times the polaris will not destroy an idris with 4 torpedos it was for the show
This video could have been 7-10 minutes long, and would have provided the same amount of _valuable information._
This video could have been around the 10 minute mark if CIG released a disclaimer noting the Polaris demonstration was unrealistic or noted the special conditions it is implying and if I skipped my focus on Org level integration of cap ships such as Polaris... but that is my focus of 2023 when talking big ships, avoiding talking about them in a vacuum.
I have a Star Citizen account but until they actually LAUNCH the game, I am unable to play. I did do a test once a few years ago and found the game to be an INTENSE memory hog. Even with 32gb or ram, she was incredibly SLOW.
it bothers me that this ship isnt limited i think its to key and valuable
Fair point. Just picturing dozens of these on the same server and that's of course not going to happen thankfully due to instancing and server meshing but makes you think just how many are out there in players hands already!
Thumbnail says expections...
Good catch, I try to QC the thumbnails and that has become easier with less words on them.
@@RedJay Fewer words? ;)
And my Inferno go brrrrrrrrrt
Ares Inferno is a heck of a ship, but is limited without a place to rearm between runs. On its own or in a small complement of additional Ares could see them effectively knocking out critical subsystems for other fleet ships to conduct their own attacks.
Not only demo video but also eventual balance where size 10 torps can be shot down. You’re making gameplay assumptions based on an ad. It is not a source of information, just speculation. Seen the commercial for the Freelancer?
the polaris has Capital killer torpedoes. its patrols and is lightly armored. Its uses speed and maneuverability to engage larger targets.
Just like a WW2 Light Destroyer or Large Patrol ship. Think Fletcher or Panther
Q&A stated it was supposed to take out med/small capital ships AT WILL, and work using tactics on large targets. Its a military ship, good for solo PATROLS. It doesnt have an IWin Button, it has a "Surprise Mother Fucka" Button.
Polaris gang 💀