How To Anticipate Traffic Light Sensors (Flashing Your Lights Doesn't Work!)
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- čas přidán 21. 02. 2024
- After my video a number of weeks ago where the Police car got stuck with the traffic light sensors I realised there was quite a large gap in people's knowledge.
How Do Traffic Light Sensors Work? | Did the lights fail? - • How Do Traffic Light S...
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Almost all traffic light sensors detect when I operate the handbrake and put the car in neutral.
Step one of the rise of the machines, beep boop
From what I've observed recently, call it a conspiracy theory if you want, I've noticed that with no cars coming from the other direction, I'll be sitting on red while the side with no cars gets the green. Then as soon as a car approaches from the "green" side, they'll change that side to red and give me the green. I think it's deliberate, but can't fathom why.
@@paulsengupta971 from what I understand, it can be deliberate. As Ash mentions, they are often multiple sensors on the approach to lights, which allows the system to work out how fast a vehicle is going. Sometimes, if the system detects that the approaching vehicle is speeding, it will deliberately switch the lights to red, to force them to stop speeding. This might be a myth, but I believe I've had it happen to me, doing the same junction a few times. Sometimes slightly below the speed limit, and sometimes slightly over, I find the lights more often stay green if I'm below the speed limit.
@@paulsengupta971 this will depend on the accident statistics for that junction, it is sometimes used to reduce red jumper ie going before the lights change
@@paulsengupta971In Spain we had traffic lights at the entry points to villages that really did change to red if the vehicle approaching was going too fast. I've never seen it here, but I think it's a rather good idea. Once in town however, there is some dark magic at work.
Used to get my five year old to 'wish the red lights' to change green. She had this 'special technique,' which she took very seriously and was excellent at. With her in the back shouting her commands at the traffic lights, we always get through on a school morning. 😊😊😊
There are lots of sensors but I have observed that in my city, during the day, on weekdays at least, many junctions are switched to a mode that doesn't use the sensors, they just go in a round robin sequence and for fixed periods for each direction.
After maybe 6 or 7pm they go in to sensor mode when there is less traffic.
As a bus driver when lights are red I used that time to have a quick drink or read any messages on our ticket machines about diversions ect. We can only use our machines to read messages when the vehicle has been stationary for 10 seconds or more and won't let us look when the vehicle is moving as it should be. So I'm constantly looking what's happening to make sure I judge my times to do things. But a very informative video Ashley.
As a bus passenger I have often noticed some lights changing prioritising the bus if the bus is at the front of queue as the lights change to red. It will let just a couple of cars out from the other direction before changing back to green, but if the bus is further back in the queue the lights will stay red until the other direction clears.
I guess that depends on what you are drinking 😂🤣
@@BigDavie2000Yeah, as a bus rider, bus priority signalling is great - my route to & from work is great for it. The bus only ever has to stop for pedestrians or other busses, otherwise it's green all the way. Right up the bus lane too, past the jammed traffic.
One or two traffic lights/crossings in my area are programmed to go to red on the main road if nothing is there, and then don't change to green until something is there, and timed in such a way that whatever vehicle arrives has been forced to stop or reduce speed to a crawl. Apparently, they are delibrately set up this way to slow down traffic on some of the fast wide roads around here that only have a 40 mph limit.
One thing I notice people missing is "Platoons". Lights on a longer, busier road are timed, so groups of traffic get the green lights.
They're timed on the speed limit, I.e it takes this long for a vehicle going 30mph to cover X distance. If you speed along at over 30, you'll constantly catch the reds, stop, and almost immediately have to start moving again. Whereas someone going the speed limit will arrive as the amber comes on
I look at green men too! I also (if visible) look at traffic light colours to my right and once they turn amber I get ready. It's a lot more helpful in your own area and know what changes when, but it is indeed a very helpful trick!
Many traffic lights in Sweden have their censors under the ground far away from the junction. There's a 50km/h road near me that most of the time becomes green when you arrive. Because normal stage of the lights is always red on all sides. If you're on the main road you rarely have to slow down.
There are some like that in the UK too but sadly usually a closer distance meaning you end up stopping briefly or having to creep very slowly.
Went to look at car last week, took it for test drive in a city not familiar with. Went into a right turn only lane and hit a red, so stopped. Turned green, just about rolled over the white line and stalled the car.
Waited on the red for 10 plus minutes cursing it to turn green, before I realised I'd overshot the magnetic sensor in the ground. Quick revers back over the sensor and it turned green. If the road was actually busier I would have had cars behind me to trigger the sensor .
Fun times
It's actually electro-magnetic rather than magnetic, the metal in the car alters the impedance of the induction loop like the iron core of a transformer.
Small motorbikes and mopeds sometimes don’t even trigger them. Same with cyclists especially on carbon or aluminium bikes
@@hausmaster9801 Yes, and the the cyclists have no respect for the rules, if theyre forced to jump the red.
Brilliant as always, Ashley. Many thanks for keeping me safe and aware!
I feel you should add turn right filter lanes into this video, the amount of people i see that dont pull forward over the sensor in the road to activate it and then wonder why the filter green light doesnt come on, too many that should know about it as most look like they been driving for years actually dont know this.
I can understand if its a motorbike and its not got enough size and weight to set sensor off but car drivers really need to pull forward and cover it.
There was a time, about 50 years ago, when I drove home from work along the main road from Regents Park past Madame Tussauds and up onto the Westway flyover, London. I'd come through about 10 sets of traffic lights. Many times I didn't have to stop. Catch the first set at the right moment, maintain a steady 30mph and every light would change to green as I approached! It was amazing and fun knowing this would happen. Nowadays, I suspect there is too much traffic to maintain a constant 30 mph unless its late at night.
Nicely done, Ashley. Thank you 🌞
Great video! Many places also have bus priority signalling now - I'm pedestrian & bus rider - many lights will now change green on buses approaching too.
So glad you mentioned the Headlight Flashing Myth! I have had many dicussions with people who thought it worked! Geat video Ashley!
They work on doppler radar, there's no way they can see lights.
How many look stupid flashing lights at traffic lights, as silly as kids of the 80s blowing into their game cartridges.
Takes one or two and everyone starts blindly copying like sheep 🐑
Headlight bulbs can be very expensive, switching them on and of changes the resistance of the filament, this is why bulbs blow. I don't flash people out as you should only flash to warn!
It’s an option on temporary lights (at least it was back in the late 80’s) used it many many times to change lights straight back to green from amber and red if it hadn’t started the sequence on the other side, missing the red/ amber cycle, if it was green it cuts the cycle short but still has to cycle the amber etc. perhaps they use a different sensor these days if too many people caught on
@@insoft_uk why is blowing into a game cartridge stupid? Although it might introduce moisture and so an air blower or IPA on a cotton bud might be better, if the cartridge isn't working due to slight corrosion or dust buildup, it's far from stupid. These are hardly synonymous.
Thank you very much Ashley, this is very informative and very helpful, even at traffic lights I never switch off, my eyes are constantly moving and I’m constantly using my brain until I switch off the engine. 🙃
Interesting video, never really thought much about traffic light sensors before so something to look out for from now on 🙂
Stopping in neutral (and using the handbrake) is something I cannot unlearn, after having to drive like this for about a half a year when my clutch master cylinder was leaking. The pressure was there only at the beginning, but the longer I held the clutch down, the less likely the pedal was to come back up on its own (and the bite point would move down, sometimes unpredictably fast). So I would go into neutral any opportunity I had, release the clutch and wait. Only getting into gear when I was actually going to move (not just preparing to move).
Now I've fixed the issue, but the habit remains.
At least it's a good habit, though.
Doesn't the practice also spare the clutch a lot of unnecessary wear and tear?
Thank you for this excellent video.
After millions of miles under my belt I thought all of this was common sense and just genuinely what you do as a driver to make your own life easier. However your videos show me that most of what I do isn’t actually common, and it’s good you’re educating people on these but it’s also worrying people put so little effort into driving.
It's been a while since I've seen Bootle so it was nice to see it again. A good friend of mine lives (or used to) on Moore Street 👍
The ones "up top" are doppler radar sensors and sense moving vehicles coming towards them in the same way as a speed camera does. In fact, you can pick them up if you have a radar detector in the car. You can also pick up the sensors for automatic shop door openers. The range depends on where they are pointed...they are normally pointed down to not point too far ahead, but one set of lights near my house has a hill leading up to it, and it picks up cars right down the bottom of the hill turning the lights green way ahead of you actually going through them.
The magnetic sensors under the road are metal detectors. I've noticed however that some of the sensors right at the front, near the line, now don't line up with cars since they painted the bike box at the junction, and thus may not pick up that there's a car there at all. Sometimes you have to drive a little into the bike box before the sensor will pick you up. Again, near where I live, after sitting behind another car which hadn't driven right up to the line, we waited through several light changes where our lane hadn't had a green. I got out and explained to the driver in front that he should pull forward a bit as he wasn't over the sensor to activate it. He did and we immediately got a green.
Have the exact same problem with a junction near me, sensor is past the stop line and the lights just won't change until the person at the front drives onto it
What sort of magnetic sensors are used? With many cars being made from mostly aluminium these days does it effect how easily the sensors can detect their presence? Even better in a supercar made from a composite chassis, and aluminium engine and suspension components with magnesium alloy wheels 🤣
@@Rover200PowerBasically metal detectors. If there's enough metal in the car, it should be ok.
Nice work Ashley, blimey the roads in Bootle look to be in great condition, if you're staying put in Liverpool, get a spare set of shock absorbers, or a hovercraft.
This explains something to me. Near where I live there is a set of traffic lights. About 3 cars back there is a keep-clear space. So a lot of the time if you are on the other side of this when the lights do change by the time you reach them they have changed again.
2:08 most of these sensors are not cameras, but microwave radar, very similar technology as used in the Garmin Varia bicycle radar system. You can get systems with cameras, but they're not very common.
Indeed; which is also why the flashing headlights myth is even less believable than most!
Could also be infrared sensors.
@@Ultrazaubererger i dont think infrared is used much for vehicle detection. But possibly for pedestrian detection. However, i think uW radar is more reliable, especially outdoors.
I think it's increasingly common that traffic planners limit the sight lines to traffic lights for other flows. I expect they argue this preventsthe 'amber gambler' or early anticipater, but it dumbs down driving and general awareness. Nice vid Mr A.
Just happened to wake up at 3:30 am Seattle time (USA) and notice this 12 min video come in. Will go back to sleep and watch this later with great interest but a pre-viewing comment on this topic for now: Namely that I find it quite useful to purposely have other traffic ahead of me so that they trip the sensor to make the lights turn green before I arrive. Sometimes it works a treat but not always of course. Apologies if this technique is mentioned in the video but at 3:30am local time, I'm too sleepy to watch.
Co-incidentally, similar technique of letting other vehicles well ahead "discover" big puddles for you in the rain, as well as other hazards, or just to simply pinpoint where the road goes in heavy rain or fog. It all feels a bit sneaky letting other vehicles in front do the work for you and I often wonder if the other drivers realise what I'm up to. Regardless, it's perfectly legitimate. After all, you are doing the same for vehicles behind you, assuming those drivers are aware of this technique.
Hope all is well with everyone in the UK. Heading back to the Canadian border late on Saturday, hopefully with minimal wait times.
There's a good example of this on the A322 going into Bracknell on the first proper roundabout. The lights on the roundabout take about 10 seconds to change after being triggered. The smart money holds back going down the hill to let one of the faster cars get there ahead. Let them do the stopping!
good luck on a smooth crossing. I will also take my time coming to a red light, but there are those who will slow to a crawl way before the light, on an upgrade, and I then have to motor up to the light instead of coasting up to it, and that annoys me.
I used this technique on country roads in the UK which are often too narrow for vehicles going in opposite directions to pass easily and have tight, twisty corners. Especially at night, keep the lights of the vehicle in front in view but at a good distance and you get a nice early warning about things you need to slow down for.
@@MrAceyJay Particularly single track roads with blind corners it requires so much less concentration if you're following someone.
Three things I'd change about the UK's traffic lights:
1. Have those sensors placed further back to avoid changing to amber just because someone left a slightly larger gap, forcing them to brake more sharply than usual. Also sensors that are better able to detect cyclists (once again, good to learn from the Netherlands here)
2. Longer amber phases depending on the speed limit - 3 seconds for 30 mph, 4 for 40 mph, 5 for 50 mph and so on. At higher speeds you really need more time to react and decide to come to a smooth stop, or to continue through.
3. Arrow shapes for the red and amber lights. At complex junctions it's often not immediately obvious that a red signal is intended for turning traffic as it's always a red circle, causing people to stop at them when they intend to go straight (this happens especially at night in unfamiliar areas). Having a red arrow for a right turn immediately says "right turn traffic should stop, this signal doesn't apply to others".
Disagree on point 3: an arrow for me means "go" regardless of colour.
How about road works lights? Is there any way to know if they are working/not working/very slow/several junctions?
There should be a sign saying how many junctions the lights are for. The sensors should be set at the "wait here" sign, so too far forward or too far back they might not pick you up. In general they're pretty unreliable. Some will actually have a little red light which comes on when they've seen you. If it's on you know it's working. If you know it has a light and it's not on, try moving a little forward or back. If it still doesn't come on, I will wait for a bit, but it's probably not working.
Many don't have this little red light, so for those it's more uncertain.
All good and sound Ash but some temporary light still work on sound, but not light, in my experience. If you look at the sensor box above the temporary light set it will show a red LED light as you move towards but not if it's sound triggered. We have to be extra knowledgeable when cycling. A particular set of lights on a busy orbital near me won't change for a single cycle or motorcycle without you making multiple passes over the magnetic loop sensors in the approach.
Before modern buried loops, traffic lights had pneumatic strips in the road that cars ran over to activate the lights, as children we used to walk on these strips when the road was empty to get the lights to change.
In the van today waiting at a big junction I sat on green while I waited for an ambulance to proceed through on their red.😊
I almost always put the handbrake on and go into neutral at a red... but I'm glad not everyone does, as their brakelights are an extra indicator of the lights changing, at a junction near me where the lights are only visible to the first few cars in the queue!
The floor sensors do not work for cyclists. On my very early morning commute (if i choose to cycle), there are 2 sets of lights that i encounter that will not change for me unless a car comes along, regardless of my road postion. I can sit there as long as i like. They are not timed at all.
I have to proceed with caution ( more concerned about PR so only do it if NOBODY is around) or dismount and walk.
Thought it was worth mentioning as i doubt most people would know.
Some do work. Depends on the sensitivity - helps if you go slow over the middle of them too.
If you have a Steel or Aluminium bike lay it on the strip for a few seconds it should trigger the lights, if it's a Carbon Frame you're out of luck
@TerryNutkins3 all of the above! I'll give that a go. Ta
Some floor sensor actually have two induction coils, one for cars, then a smaller one inside for bikes. So sitting in the middle not at the front of the box may get you picked up on a bike... But many won't pick up a bike or a carbon frame.
The units on top of the lights are motion sensitive, and look for moving traffic. They are normally used to judge when a green light can be changed to red without impeding traffic. They can also sense an approaching vehicle when the light is red, and if the cross road is clear, they may turn green in anticipation.
The inductive sensors cut into the road surface are presence sensitive, and while they can sense approaching traffic (if they're installed far enough away), they're more usually used to sense queuing traffic when the light is at red. They do not require the vehicle to be moving, only to be present over the sensor itself.
10:15 the other week I was in the van approaching a set of temp lights at about 7.45am. They were on green on the approach, then turned red, then turned straight back to green.... (eh...????). At the other end - instead of the usual 2 or 3 cars - there was the first car set well back from the light and about THIRTY cars all queued up behind them.....
The change to red for you would've been the "I've not seen movement for a bit" and triggered a cycle. Then when nothing has moved on the green side and it's picked up you has then favoured your side. Temp lights unless they are positioned on the offside aren't set up for queue length activation. They'll be able to see over cars, but if the first few vehicles are vans and they're too far back they probably haven't triggered the "waiting loop" around about where the sign telling you to stop is.
If you're stuck at the front of temp lights for a long time shuffle forwards (or backwards if it's just you) and that'll usually trigger it unless it's broken. Look for the indicator light on the detector.
This morning I was overtaken by an impatient van driver immediately after a set of lights. Predictably they were sat waiting at the next set of lights 1/4 of a mile away that were naturally on red. They had taken up position in lane 2 and I joined them in lane one and.... natually.... reacted to the lights quicker.... but as it is a right into another road and I was in their blind spot I let them go on their merry way.
As a motorcycle rider of 2 years, I can tell you that most drivers would know this in 3 months if they didn't whip out their phones at every traffic stop 📱
As a motorcycle rider of 9 months I picked this up 2 months ago lol
Wow, 2 years?! You must be incredibly experienced.
@@Rover200Power 2 years on a bike teaches you more about the road than most car drivers will ever know. Source: biker for over a decade now
@furonyxwolf wow, after 20 years I must be an expert then.
@@Rover200Power you sound like a nonce
I remember driving back to Liverpool from London late one night (about 3am) and expected to breeze through all the green lights, only for every single one of them to turn red making me wait for nobody on the side roads, just because the timing kept going red as I approached. I don't think I've had such bad luck before
It cannot be stated enough too that your journey time is pretty much dictated by how long you are stopped for and NOT how fast you drive. It would be incredibly difficult to make up a minute on a shortish journey, but very easy to loose 2 or 3 at a bad run through a set of lights.
Many, many years ago, mom & dad would take us on holiday to Devon. To avoid the traffic we would set out very early in the morning and we would all have a sleep on the way (not dad, of course!). One time mom woke up with the car stopped at a red light and dad nowhere to be seen. He was back up the road a ways jumping up and down on the rubber sensors to get the lights to change.
@ 03.25 for those looking for the sensor in the road, they are very common to be at a 45 degree angle cut, and tar marking them out.
What is really annoying is when the lights go red just as you arrive, then you sit and watch them go through their entire cycle with no other traffic or pedestrians anywhere near the area.
The junction was empty and the only thing the lights did was to make you stop and wait for nearly 3 minutes. 🤨
I used to do out of hrs emergency call out and on the main road out of town there was a motorway fly over junction where the lights on the roundabout underneath would do this.
2am in the morning, and no one on the road except you.
To enter the roundabout and turn right onto the motorway you had to go through 3 sets of lights to get around the roundabout.
Each set would make you sit waiting for nealry 3 minutes, so it would take you almost 9 minutes to turn right on a completely empty road.
Same experience as well, no traffic was about at all, it would be better to switch the lights off during the early hours of the day.
Good stuff, interesting... Re the 'flashing' at lights to change them, I'd never heard of that before :)
You're not fooling us, you've been doing that for years 😊
@@ChigleybusMy secret's out..... dohhhhh.
Where I live there are a set of Traffic lights in the village where the sensors don’t work and it’s on a set time system which is ok in the day but at night can get very annoying when your the only one at the junction, I’ve spoke to Lincolnshire County Council about it and nothing has been done about it.
Interesting point about the flashing of lights. I do it at night when you are a long way away so the sensors pick you up earlier than if you are just on dipped headlights. Clearly I have been incorrect.
They use doppler radar, they are not optical at all.
There's a set of lights on the A40 at Lea in Herefordshire. If you approach to cross over the A40 on a road bike.. ie carbon... the floor sensors do not pick you up. The only 2 lawful scenarios that I follow are to await a vehicle in my direction triggering the sensors, although it is a very rural road, or dismount and cross the road on foot.
Here in Bristol during the night the traffic lights stay on green until they see a car coming then go red to stop that car until someone approaches from a different direction. All right it's not all of them but definitely the ones on the Bear Pit roundabout and the ones on the Cumberland Basin flyover, they've done it to me too many times for it to be a coincidence.
I delivered to a company that makes traffic lights once. While I was there I asked one of the guys about the sensors and he confirmed they are just rangefinders and are designed to work regardless of light levels so they can't see you flashing your lights at them.
Yes, I've noticed this as well, generally on traffic light controlled roundabouts. I don't know if this is a good strategy for busy times or whether it's just part of the war against the car!
Perhaps the opposite approach would burn out the red bulbs, which would be more of a safety issue than burned out greens. Road tram signals on which the centre bulb is common to all "aspects" ie stop (bar), proceed & cluster (equivalent to amber) and so is always lit, are often failed due to having burned out.
I was taught from day one by my driving instructor to go intro neutral & handbrake at traffic lights. I always find at least 9/10, I make loads of progress ahead of the car behind me because I was paying attention
mine always said, handbrake, THEN neutral 😛
the flashing headlights at the sensors idea probably came to you across the pond, as in the US, our traffic lights often have sensors that detect emergency services by a *strobe* flashing on the roof of the vehicle. - but people see the flashing lights override the traffic signal and think they can do the same by flashing their headlights at it. and the lights change, anyway, just often enough to reinforce the delusion.
also, in the states, the majority of our lights have a magnetic sensor in the road, and those are basically a metal detector. we also have cameras with object recognition software, although the one in my town has since been replaced with sensors. there are still a few lights that use pressure plates in the road, and some cities will put the lights on a timer, set so the lights will synchronize with people traveling at the legal speed.
There are specific traffic lights near where I live that are on very quiet roads, they are for single lane tunnels under railroad tracks. They use a magnetic sensor under the road and will simply stay in a single position (Green towards town) unless the magnetic sensor picks something up.
I'm a cyclist and I have to get off my bike and lay it down across the sensor for it to change to green for me. If I simply ride my bike over the sensor or stop on top of it... I will simply be there until a car comes to trigger the sensor.
I think most lights use a mix of timing and sensor to stop this problem, but since these are on quiet roads, I think they just use the sensors only.
Kind of annoying to have to get off my bike and lay it down, but better than going through the red and meeting a car coming through the tunnel towards me.
I have heard that some motorcyclists use strong neodymium magnets stuck to the bottom of their bike to increase its magnetic footprint for these type of sensors, maybe the same will work for you.
@@BigDavie2000 Maybe it would help. My bike is a steel frame so lying it down is enough. I know other local cyclists that have lighter bikes and even laying them down doesn't trigger the sensors.
I think I really just need to send a message to the MP about it as cycling is getting more popular and it's only a better of time before a cyclist gets in trouble because of these lights.
In London they shroud some traffic lights to prevent anticipation…you can’t even see it is still green until right on top of it.
A few years ago, I drove right across Leeds, on the main roads, to catch an early flight. Each set of lights were on green, until they sensed my approach some distance off. They then changed to red, despite the absence of any vehicles on the side roads, causing me to slow and stop, before changing back to green.
This seems to be a trend now in the move to demonise cars. It's sometimes comical to watch it from the side...you're sitting at a red light with green to "fresh air" as someone put it down below, then as someone approaches the green from the other side, it turns red and then gives you the green. There are a few traffic light controlled roundabouts I can think of which do that.
On the subject of red traffic lights, here in the USA and Canada I have yet to see anyone release their footbrake whilst waiting at a red light or any kind of traffic holdup. The UK technique of parking brake on / gear in neutral / footbrake off is virtually unheard of here. In all fairness, it goes against the culture of automatic transmissions and simply leaving them in drive, though applying the handbrake is still a wise thing. I am well aware that the traditional UK technique isn't as widely practiced even in Blighty as it perhaps was in the past. As witnessed by the many sets of brake lights still illuminated in stationary UK queues. And yes, auto hill hold etc has partly contributed to this but not wholly. Either way, it's interesting how "brake light dazzle" just isn't a concern here in North America.
correct, even if people apply their parking brake (and there are still many parking brakes that take a foot to apply them) it is drummed into us not to trust the parking brake, and keep our foot on the brake, both to keep the brake lights illuminated so people approaching know we're staying stopped, and because the parking brake has half or less holding force as the regular brakes do. the only time Americans will take the car out of gear is if they know there is going to be a long wait, like at a roadworks, or crash, or a grade crossing with a long freight train.
This video applies to every single set of traffic lights in the country except the set in King's Lynn near St Nicholas Retail Centre on Edward Benefer Way. Approach those on the main road at midnight, 2 or 3am when there's no traffic about, and they almost always turn red when you approach them for literally no reason at all 😂
Some do deliberately turn red to try and prevent speeding and deliberately slow traffic.
Some local councils have actually used the speed detecting capabilities of the radar detector on traffic lights as a traffic calming measure.
There is one down the road that will cycle to red every time if your speed increases a few mph (even if still under the limit) while in the approach zone.
I've long been aware that a lot of lights work on movement approaching them (I've even had times when there's been no traffic around when I've been walking and had temporary traffic lights go green just from me walking past them!), but is it possible that some can also be triggered by movement away from them? I would like to think in both theory and practice it wouldn't pick up movement heading away but can't help but find myself wondering!!
I think the flashing your lights myth is from some systems which detect emergency services vehicles fitted with special flashing strobes, and switch to or extended the green. They certainly used to have these, perhaps still do, in the US (Opticom system). Not sure about UK. Regardless, it’s not possible to fool them by flashing your lights!
I start very early in the morning. Sometimes before 6 .and the lights always change very quickly to green .but when I return more traffic on the road. I'm hitting more red lights. I was behind someone not fully parked at the lights, but lights stayed red .until I told her to move forward for sensors to activate the lights changed.
The lights at the Merton 6:30 have bad timing if you go straight on they only let three or four cars go. At rush hour the traffic backs up down to the last junction.
Useful tip to upset Audi and BMW drivers, gonna use this every time.
Something you didn't mention is that at some junctions, usually bigger ones, there can be a set pattern that the lights operate in.
So as long as traffic keeps flowing into the junction it will keep sending green signals to the lights in the same order.
Especially in your own local area this can be a neat little thing to know as you can come to figure out pretty much exactly when you can expect a green light.
The only thing I would really like to press on people with this is that, even in the possession of this knowledge, is to NEVER stop looking.
Emergiency vehicles may carry short wave radios that can influence the given signal. If you've ever had a green go way quickly back to red and a few seconds later saw an ambulance pass thats more than likely what happened :)
It would be interesting to get your thoughts on waiting at traffic lights in an EV. Since there's no clutch, would you keep it in 'D'? What about applying the electric parking brake?
11:35 regarding the car reversing out; I often go into neutral if I see someone coming, so they see the reverse lights aren't on; is this a good idea?
I think so, it tells them you’re definitely not going to reverse out into their path.
Now I'm still only learning but I would leave it in reverse but brake, to let them know you're still intending on coming out but you're also acknowledging their right of way. If they then want to let you out, that's up to them, but at least they know you want to come out.
@@NinjahDuk There’s another point too. It’s the same reason I either press the brake or hover over it rather than the accelerator, if I’m at the lights and a pedestrian walks across the front. The reverse gear has a lot of torque, if your foot slips off the clutch and you’re in reverse your car could leap back a bit into the path of any cars. And sitting with the foot on the clutch for a long time just isn’t great anyway!
Thanks for confirming a few things 👍🏼
Away from lights, shortly before 6 minutes you indicated in the left only filter lane. Do you advocate this to show people you really are following the correct direction rather than being in a specific direction lane and, therefore, not indicating as why would you not be going left? (or right, accordingly) Hope that makes sense.
Keep up the good work 👍🏼
In the past Ashley has advocated only indicating if there's someone around who will benefit from the signal- on the basis that this will improve your observations as you'll have looked in all the relevant places to determine if you need to indicate. Whereas indicating automatically means you may skip the observations.
@alfonsolapulce2733 something I've done for a lonnng time. I just wondered if the thinking had changed
Speaking of hand brake and in gear. I was on the A1 traffic stopped nothing moving. I put on my hand brake on out of gear and turned the engine off. I was in my campervan. We were stood there for 2 hours. The car in front of me left there engin on foot on the brake and in gear (I could see the car occasionally rock back and forth so definitely in gear) for the whole 2 hours.
Most amazing thing was google sat nav got the traffic moving. About half a mile down the road it took the cars and vans off the A1 onto a country lane the HGV stayed on the A1. It took us around the hold up and back into the A1. Not a single vehicle on the A1 apartment from the ones rejoining from the country road.
The car who was in front of me foot on brake for 2 hours stopped behind the HGV 😂😂. Happened late last summer
reminds me of a return from visiting my MIL where my satnag notified me of a crash 150 miles ahead. when we got there, the crash was still closing 3 lanes of a 4 lane freeway (motorway)
@@kenbrown2808it's probably a typo, but "satnag" is a good name for it when it gets angry with you for choosing a different route! 😂
@alfonsolapulce2733 not a typo for the last 5 years or so.
So glad you spoke about the handbrake and gear. It crazy how many people just sit there with the footbrake on.
The other being slow on approach to find gap is such a good technique i use a lot but often people behind get annoyed (doesn't bother me i just control them) lol.
Many systems with “auto hold” will keep the lights on despite the footbrake having been released.
@JohnR31415 Yeah, the counts for the increase. I remember laughing with a Renault rep when he talked about the new excellent auto hold feature on the courtesy car. I was like, what's wrong with a handbrake? Haha.
Anyway, You can often tell the difference when they launch off from the lights.
Footbrake + handbrake can be a useful tool sometimes too, e.g. when a HGV is fast approaching and you're stationary - gives a big lit-up inication that you are actually stopped
@@richardclarke9966 yup, very good point. I often sit at lights with the handbrake on and my foot on the brake too, so the brake lights stay lit. Once someone stops behind me, I can just take my foot off, so I dont dazzle them the entire time.
@@konradgreen2567 I was going to say more or less exactly that!
Can the police have overrides in their cars? At a junction near me where I know the timings very well they didn't change to red for the big gap in front of me like they normally do but let me and a police car following through, then changed.
In big towns the council UTC (urban traffic control) monitors many junctions on CCTV & can manually control the lights if the operator spots a struggling blue light vehicle. Perhaps this is what you have witnessed - not aware of special equipment on the blue light vehicles.
I have had issues with the sensors on temporary lights not detecting me on a bike. I have a set on my commute that doesn't know I exist. It's a case of jump them or take the path otherwise they never change (it's a 3 way set and I come out of the quiet road)
Sometimes suggested that you weave to a stop as a small vehicle.
A few things about how they work. Yes the one's on top of the lights use infrared to detect cars. I sometimes wonder if there's just a single car, they're too close to being picked up and so it might wait until there's more than 1 car in a queue before it kicks in a timer for the other directions.
The ones cut into the road are more interesting. They work with inductance, like the wireless phone chargers or NFC to know a car is there. The distance for causing lights to change will be about the time when a car isn't hitting the sensor at the back plus a little bit of time. So if a car has just left the front sensor, and nobody has crossed either sensor within a second or so, then the lights will change.
The one's cut into the road are particularly important when it comes to single lane lights. (usually turning left). If a car is not sat on the front sensor, the lights won't change until the main lights for everyone changes. I've seen so many times a car has stopped too far back and hasn't been on the sensor, so the filter lane light hasn't changed. Sometimes these sensors are larger than others. These areas are also more prone to pot holes since it's a weak point in the road, so some people avoid going into the pot-hole and then don't trigger the lights.
Most traffic lights will default to one direction being green when there is no cars (usually the main road), however some will just alternate after a timer.
Although the ones cut into the road are more efficient for changing when there is or isn't a car. Due to the sensors being induction based, a cyclist at the lights wouldn't trigger the lights due to not enough metal, so lights with a dedicated cycle start point will always be infra-red based.
Some use both.
My annoyance comes with temporary traffic lights which use infra-red sensors. They should be calibrated to have the sensor pick up to the "wait here" sigh. But there's been too many times, it's either not been set up correctly (so just works with a timer). Or it constantly thinks something has gone through one end, and not come out the other, so doesn't change.
The ones on top are generally doppler radar, the same thing as on speed guns/speed cameras. In fact, if you have a radar detector in your car, you can detect them. As a radio enthusiast, I bought a cheap radar detector to see what was about. Automatic shop door openers are detected as well.
Genuine question what do you do when temporary lights are stuck on red and could you get a fine for going through? There's a temp one near me that was clearly stuck yesterday as cara on both sides were not moving I didn't want to chance it as I could see a police car in the opposite lane in the traffic but inevitably I went through the red as a car behind me overtook and went through and a van went through the other way once I passed I could see the other light was also on red ..can you still be fined for this? (The police car did nothing , unsurprisingly they tend to do nothing a lot of the time these days )
The law doesn't require you to sit like a pudding until hell freezes over - "reasonable excuse" is always a valid defense
One particular light near to where i live sometimes stays on red until someone comes from the opposite side. I've sometimes been sat for 5 full minutes.
Or you could just use the amber light coming on for its intended purpose of preparing to pull away and slot it into gear. I'd also add that outside the big cities lots of traffic lights don't have sensors and just run in set patterns and sequences.
IAM Motorcycle Observer and Assessor trying to reduce road users observations. Nice!
@@ashley_neal Nowhere did I say anything about reducing your observation on what is going on around you. I was commenting on the idea of trying to second guess when the lights are going to change.
Lol. What do you teach your riders to look at then?
I think Mike will tell them the same as you (it's certainly what the IAM taught me). However its not an exact science & the red amber phase was created to give a " heads up" in advance. Most countries don't have this phase eg France - red straight to green.
There's a set of lights in my town and even though they have sensors on top, they still cycle through on a set rotation including a pedestrian set which goes regardless of whether there's any pedestrians it drives me crazy especially really early morning or late at night
I think it was on a youtube video that someone advised not to ride the clutch at intersections. Something to do with clutch thrust bearings.
I have long since, decades long, been in the habit of neutral and handbrake at traffic lights and stop signs.
It has never slowed me down. I am usually first away as lights change.
My give way sign behaviour is different but I make sure not to jump the gun at lights and stop signs by not even checking to see if the way is clear until the handbrake is on. At which point I do check to see if the way is clear.
It won't necessarily stop an overzealous cop from lying about not me not stopping though.
I know of a set of traffic lights locally controlled by traffic lights where a short spur is buses only. I am sure the sensor there detects heavy weights because if a rogue car uses the bus only section the lights stay red.
it is more likely, the approved buses have a radio transponder that lets the lights know a bus is there.
@@kenbrown2808agreed, otherwise you'd get LGVs using the bus lane.
Inductive loops quite often don't register a motorcycle's presence. There have been times when I have had to wait for a car to queue up behind me before the sequence is triggered. Very frustrating!
Hi, how can I send you a few clips?
Off video topic: what is your professional opinion re signal use in a dedicated lane? Ie would you signal left in a lane that only allows a left turn?
Personally I wouldn't.
The argument against this is that some pedestrians don't know about dedicated lanes (especially children). I would be with you most of the time but prepared to signal if I felt the presence of pedestrians made it necessary.
The sensors on a side road entering a main road will keep the side road light red until a car comes, this also applies to the ends of bus lanes, so cyclists who don't set off sensors can be left all alone for long periods, a permanently green cycle light would solve this . The side roads typically have a timer once the green light come on.
The sensors on main roads are detecting gaps in traffic, but there will be a combined gap detector and maximum timer.
A green man crossing onto a roundabout will automatically go green when the traffic gets a red light, but the green man on the side of the road off the roundabout is controlled by a mixture of pressing the button and waiting upon a timer/ gap sensor combination.
There are still some rubber pressure sensor strips about if a car parks on these the lights will go hey wire until the car is moved. The system will keep giving the side road where the car is parked priority by constantly cycling. The Met Police in the 1980s did this to set up traps with 2 second green lights on the main road. You can't get all your car over the white line in 2 seconds and it would be your word against that of 2 constables.
These rubber pressure strips existed before WW2 and taxi drivers used to get out of their cars and jump up and down on them.
There are some sensors that respond to flashing lights. I drive for a living and when it's late and there's no cars, I often do this from a distance and more often than not I won't even need to slow down as the lights will change as soon as I flash where as they won't change anywhere near as quick if I don't flash.
Cool video
Can you talk a bit more about the sensor in the road? I couldn't see it when you pointed it out in this video.
As always, great content!
If you go to 3:25, you can see the cut out markings in the road for one just between Ashley and the Fiat.
I'm not convinced that inductive loops rely on movmement, since a stationary vehicle would still affect the inductance of the circuit. However, the clip you showed did seem to imply that movement is required. Some experiments may be in order!
They don't, they sense when something (of a suitable mass) is there. Movement is calculated from the data the set sends. The far back ones are usually the queue length trigger, having something stationary on the front loops and the far back loops without any variation (things moving over them) will trigger a change if it's set up for that.
Gap sensing is done with a pair at the front. If there is a demand call from another direction (or pedestrian button) and there's nothing sensed around both loops the lights will probably cycle.
Really interesting video, but it seems that red lights have become advisory for some drivers!
Something I have always wondered, with a PELICON crossing (Pedestrian Light Control), why wouldn't the lights change to a green man essentially immediately upon pressing the button, assuming sufficient time has passed since it was last green? These crossings always make the pedestrians wait... why?
Force observation. Good call. My son when he was tought to drive indicated everything which is lazy. Observe your surroundings and you will become one with them.
Love anticipating when the lights are going to change and can often keep the car rolling at slower speeds rather than fully stopping.
There's a set of lights near where I live that goes under a low bridge, and I've worked out that the lights stay on red on both sides until they detect movement.
At night it's great, because if I don't see headlights on the other side it's usually a good indication they will change as I hit the first sensor (cut into the road), but I'm always ready to stop if not.
There's a narrow bridge near my house like that...but the sensor for the one side is pointed down, and there's a hill going down, so the sensor picks you up at the bottom of the hill, turning the light green while you're still several hundred yards away.
There are some traffic lights that make wonder if I even exist at all! (Motorcycle problems 😅)
At least I know now that there is someone else who engages neutral and the hand brake when stopped at traffic lights.
Surley not all lights have them? I cant think of a couple of junctions near me where you can literally be waiting for ages while nothing is coming from any other side
Going into neutral at the lights also has a long term financial benefit - you don't wear out the clutch springs so fast. Sitting with the clutch depressed holds the springs down and the disengages the clutch plates. The movement of these parts fatigues them and eventually they break meaning replacing them. Any work on a clutch tends to be a lit of work and therefore a bit pricy. It's similar to riding the clutch.
American made cars don't seem to have that problem. of all the things I've driven, I've seen two that had defective throwout mechanisms fail, two that had the clutch linkage fail, and one that had the discs fail. the two that had the throwout mechanism fail were the ones that were most commonly put into neutral at lights, because the clutches were heavy enough to be uncomfortable to sit with the clutch depressed.
also, riding the clutch is different, because all the plates are in motion, and the throwout bearing is riding against them, causing friction that isn't in the system with the clutch fully engaged or disengaged. it puts the wear in a completely different place from sitting with the clutch held down.
@@kenbrown2808 and there's me thinking in a typical dry clutch friction is used to rotate the output shaft when the clutch is engaged, fully or partially. And that slippage occurs when partial engaged and that this increases the west rate of the clutch plates as a former colleague of mine found out the hard way by riding the clutch.
The springs are there to endure that the clutch plates return into contact with each other when the clutch pedal is released to minimise any possibility of slippage. Depress the clutch pedal and the springs are compressed and that loading, if held for longer than needed to change gear, fatigues the springs and if the fatigue life is exceeded then the spring will fail. For those not aware what fatigue means, all materials have limited number of times they can be put under load but if the load is held on for longer than the designers had in mind then the fatigue life can be shortened alternatively if the load is applied more frequently than the designer expected you can also reduce the fatigue life. In the case of the clutch in a manual transmission a life of stop-start urban traffic will reduce the fatigue life by increasing the number of cycles per trip compared to a vehicle used on longer inter-Korean journeys. Likewise hold the clutch pedal down increases the duration of loading reducing the fatigue life without increasing the number of cycles.
Now both failures of the clutch are different both are caused by incorrect usage of the clutch. So, similar cause but different failure point.
I've only driven Europe-built cars so I can't comment on American transmissions.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 in an American built clutch, the design of the clutch is such that it only requires peak force to disengage the clutch. when it is fully disengaged, it takes less force to hold it disengaged. what wrecks clutches here, is people who use it as a footrest, which keeps the throwout bearing sliding against the throwout arms or diaphragm, as I said, or slipping the clutch excessively, which, of course, wears out the friction surfaces. otherwise, the friction of pedaling it causes as much wear as simply holding it disengaged. - and in a modern car, neither should make the clutch fail before the rest of the car is worn out.
@@kenbrown2808 main point seems yo be like a new roof. Having the clutch pedal depressed for excessive lengths of time will reduce the service life of the return spring.
@neiloflongbeck5705 main point is the reduced life still exceeds the life of the rest of the transmission.
Always a good laugh when people flash temporary lights.
The “flash your lights” myth comes from emergency vehicles. Some lights (though not all and it’s even dependant on the area as (iirc) there isn’t a national standard) can detect when emergency vehicles are approaching them and will either keep the light on green longer or turn the light over quicker.
In the US it’s daily common to use a special flasher unit on the vehicles to trigger this. It’s this “special flasher” that the myth came from.
There is a stretch of built up road near me that have five sets of lights. If on green it would take about 2 minutes to travel. Late at night no other traffic around , they can all turn red as you approach each one. Time to travel along the same stretch, 12 minutes. There are cameras on the road and its a 30 limit. To beat the next light turning red you have to do 40 mph. Travel at 30 and each one turns red. Go figure.
Out of interest - what do you do when sensors don't work when you are on a motorcycle? On a particular journey I go on each week, there is one specific set of lights that do not recognise that I am there. If I go early in the morning, 6am ish, then I can get to those lights with no other vehicles around. So I end up having to wait for a car to arrive behind me which can take minutes as I watch the lights go green for every other light, then when they do I have to move across the give way line so the car behind can move up far enough to trigger the sensor ..... am I shamelessly breaking the law/being moronic or is there something else I should do?
For magnetic sensors, give the engine a good quick rev once you're on the sensor... the electromagnetic noise from the engine will usually be enough extra to make it trigger... in theory.
Not something I've ever had to try as I don't ride motorbikes, but it was something I remember reading years ago.
Let your city know that this particular set of lights have an issue, particularly if this is the only set in town you're having this issue with. It might be possible to recalibrate or adjust the sensors to work better, but nothing will be done if no one knows of the problem. In the moment however I believe it is perfectly acceptable to carefully go against red in these sort of cases, once it's clear the light is malfunctioning.
@@tin2001 Will give it a go, worth a try thanks. Tried everything I could think of on the run up to the lights, weaving, waving my arm like a mad man :)
I have seen someone walk their bike across the junction due to this. It was only a fairly small scooter type one though.
Just commented something similar. I have this exact problem on my pushbike on a very late/early commute.
The worst bit is you KNOW the lights will never change for you and its terrible PR to go through....... so what do you do? One of mine is actually over a narrow bridge. I'm not keen to walk it, so tend to go through and await the dangerous retribution from any drivers that may have witnessed it.
I did some work with a company offering police driver awareness courses a couple of years ago and it was explained to me that speed is also registered - if you're driving late at night on quiet roads and you're driving too quick the red lights will be triggered, but by approaching more slowly you're more likely to get a green. A subtle way of managing speed.
@SiWeeMann. Yes same thing here almost, Slough A355 I've heard is if you hit a green and then stick to 28mph you should get through for greens for the rest of the main drag up the A355 through the rest od the town.
I have had lights in front of me turn red, then go green again even though I had been driving within the limit.
@@skylarius3757 That would highly likely be a mixture of either the sensor sensing you when there was no other traffic in the vicinity along with the naturally occurring time sensors within the lights, speed is not always an issue when you are either too close or too far away.
10.00 And he is thinking with your hand gesticulations that you have lost your marbles.
Don't know if anyone's made this point, but I think the myth about flashing your lights to get traffic light sensors to change may come from a confusion with temporary traffic lights. I believe, at least with older temporary traffic lights, that ones that would car count, specifically at night, might be susceptible to light flashing. Not actually sure if any temporary lights operated this way though.
Also, some people think emergency services flashing lights make lights change. Don't know whether that's actually true though either.
Im a hgv driver. We are taught, green means get ready to stop, red means get ready to go!
Defensive driving slow to green & be prepared to stop and pace yourself to the red ready for the green.
Don’t get triggered when out driving but try to anticipate when you are triggering traffic light sensors to keep things flowing
Years ago on my morning commute into work there was a series of 7 traffic lights along a main road. It was quite amusing watching those in lane 2 accelerate hard from the lights when they changed then brake hard for the next set whereas I would be just under the speed limit and not have to adjust speed once we were going. A combination of sensors and timing to keep things moving on those lights until ut got busier and everyone caused chaos by blocking everything