Nvidia Has Started Making CPUs For Windows
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- Can you believe it? 🤔
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▼ Time Stamps: ▼
0:00 - Intro
1:27 - Windows ARM64 Version
2:50 - Compatibility Considerations
4:36 - How Much of a Problem Would Emulation Be?
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Imagine having intel gpu and nvidia cpu
xd
and an AMD WiFi card
that's what I'm considering on getting at some point in the future
They switched roles lmao
Well well well.. How the turntables....
I remember wondering why I wouldn't see Nvidia CPUs. Well I guess soon there will be Nvidia CPUs.
There has always has been. There is Tegra. The surface RT uses it. It's just Intel paid them to not produce any X86 CPUs. So they went with Arm instead of X86. Due to Windows only supporting X86, it was never on the personal desktop.
You can still get an Power(PC) Server and get an modern ARM Server CPU or an ARM developer workstation. The thing is you have to use Linux with them.
@@TrueMathSquare Huh, so I guess I didn't look deep enough.
I think they have in the past, some low end computers had some. I recall a Chromebook having a Tegra CPU
@@TrueMathSquare Windows support Arm since Windows8
Cost
Not Caring for/about end users
Not allowing Open Source Drivers
Not Caring about PowerDraw or Heat Output
ThioThio! He's brought back the old intro format!
More competition is better, but not an option without linux support. As MS pushes for more AI baked into the operating system, I find myself running the opposite direction.
Yeah, I don't hate the AI stuff but I heavily dislike it. I think my next PC will have Linux installed. Also the thing I hate the most about my phone is that even though I disabled Google Assistant it will still start if I press the button for it or if I pull around the down corner of my phone it starts.
@@kacperkonieczny7333 main concern is the massive amount of data collection. Everything you click, everything you type being analyzed and sent to M$
@@Aether-Entropy yeah, I know, it annoys. I just didn't thought of it when I wrote the comment.
Yeah, ARM support already seems to be pretty good on Linux anyways so they probably shouldn't ignore it. I don't pay attention to Nvidia but if they have ARM server chips they would probably support Linux there, and if they want to compete in anything other than consumer PCs they would need to. And unless they pull an Apple and make SBCs where every component is custom and proprietary, Linux should be able to support them.
@@dgmarie yes everyone forgets that while Windows is the norm on desktop, in data centers *Linux* is the norm
We are going to see more competition in CPUs. Along with Intel & AMD, now Qualcomm & Nvidia are entering in the Windows computer market. It will give users great choices.
Yeah more competition is great, it means they will constantly fight and add new features and release new CPUs for great prices, and the previous generation ones are gonna get cheaper and cheaper.
The only bad thing is when the companies get greedy and start releasing proprietary technologies and connectors, and also that they want to minimize the cost of production so they stop caring about worker rights and also start polluting.
I’ll be the first to buy the RTX 13900K from NVIDIA 😂
😅😂😂
Coincidentally that's how much it'll cost.
@@CyanRooper13.9m just for the gpu
For 9999.99 USD sure!
Qualcomm had an exclusive contract with Microsoft for Windows on ARM. This exclusive contract has expired so now other ARM CPU manufacturers are starting to make new Windows CPUs. Microsoft also has invested in ARM in Azure using Ampere CPUs.
I'm one of the developers of the Free Pascal Compiler. I use a Raspberry Pi to develop the Arm/AArch64 side of things. I will definitely be interested to see where this goes. I'll probably end up buying one just to help with development and testing.
40+ years of x86. So much has been designed targeting it. So much x86 hardware out there. It may take decades to migrate to arm, if it even makes sense to.
Just cause something has a historied past doesn't mean we should let it cripple to future
@@oRyner Adapting to ARM is hard. There are multiple issues about it.
1) Windows is struggling on ARM compatibility and desktop Linux is not good at it either. Only Android is good at ARM and it's a mobile operating system, meaning that it isn't good for usage in a PC even if Google makes a completely PC compatible version of it.
2) Everything for computers is written for either x86 or x86-64. This means that if ARM gets supported enough and isn't compatible with x86 or just x86-64, developers would need to create versions of their software that is compatible with it. Plus, it will mean that old software wouldn't work on a ARM PC too. It's currently compatible with them but it's emulation, not a direct compatiblity.
Tell that to the QWERTY Keyboard.@@oRyner
@@Otto500206Apple is able to transition smoothly because Apple is able to ask developers to make an Arm version and Mac users mainly use new mainstream software. This is not the same on Windows and Linux.
@@Otto500206atleast for linux, since most of the apps are open source, you could just recompile them and they would literally work with arm
Linux arm workzd for a long time
no mention of the rapidly approaching end of the qualcomm arm exclusivity deal? once everyone can make an arm cpu for windows, things will change.
I was not aware of this 🤔
@@ThioJoeMicrosoft made ARM deal with Qualcomm in 2016. Arrival of M1 had them scraping to stop people from jailbreaking MacBooks to try ARM64 Windows on it. Then they've spent years to match Apple's Rosetta-2 x86 emulator, with even rumors of abandoning ARM64 version of Windows due to weak Qualcomm chips and lack of emulation. Apple won round one in the ARM based laptop and tablets market. Microsoft is aiming to hit back.
There is also that statement in those court files about next gen Xbox using "future RDNA or ARM64 APU" that was leaked during fight with FTC over ABK acquisition.
What I do like about x86-x64 is that they were designed with a certain open ideology, you can pretty much run any os you like on them without restrictions, I know it is possible but I don't expect this from ARM especially that I was an early adopter of windows on arm with the first Microsoft surface (running windows RT) and this device is a paperweight because Microsoft wouldn't unlock the bootloader (I know you could technically hack it to unlock it but I don't want to hack the device I bought to run the software I want if the limitation is artificially set by the manufacturer)
This will create more e-waste, reduce ownership and not because ARM is inferior but because this is what companies want
That's only if manufactures lock the bootloader like on WinRT. But the Surface Pro X, as far as I'm aware, didn't have that issue, and you could install a variety of ARM compiled Linux distros without the need for any "jailbreak." Though that doesn't seem like that good of an idea, Surfaces are known to not play well with Linux, just because drivers from Microsoft devices aren't as well supported in the kernel.
Both ARM and x86 are proprietary anyway, so I would bet the future on RISC-V if I wanted complete freedom
In theory, it’s really easy for Linux users to move to ARM because all the software can just be recompiled by anyone for the new architecture. (I’m aware that ARM is not really new, but it is still relatively new to the PC world.)
And the fact that essentially every popular Linux distro has ARM builds of their entire repositories
Yes, because of the above.
Microsoft going full into machine learning, it's actually pretty awesome how they utilized this in mspaint, allowing you to do photoshop like editing without any real photoshoping skills.
I think it's possible that Microsoft might start making features unavailable unless you have THEIR hardware, and that the number of said features would increase over time, if their aim is to eventually displace the x86 platform with their own. That's more of a strategic marketing decision, because it would cost them a lot of market share in the short-term (and perhaps in the long-term as well) if they were to try to sell more Windows licenses by, say, mandating newer hardware configurations by surprise and shutting out older or more widely compatible configurations altogether
I don't think Microsoft want to control the hardware, I think they want to get their 30% cut of ALL the software that you install like what Apple, Android and Valve (via Steam) do. And since we currently all expect to be able to go download and install whatever .exe we find on the internet because "that's how we've done it since Windows 98" transitioning away from x86 could give them a way to capture more of the installs.
Even if they allow sideloading like how Android does most people just use the Play Store, Microsoft want that to be the Windows Store
Only Nvidia is foolish enough to do that
@@Pegaroo_Windows even supports redirections to the store, you can find links that takes you to the store page of apps and install them from there! So, I wouldn't be shocked if they do that in the future.
can you please adress the s0 connected standby "sleep" state for laptops? people experience "shutting down" a laptop and within a couple of days it stays hot and drains the whole battery.
ltt tackeld this but i have yet to see a full rundown to enable s3 back for some laptops that don't have connected standby on/off option in bios, even with regkeys tricks :(
I read the title and I can’t wait to watch this video.
I always share your videos to other social media,Thank you for your knowledge videos.❤ Support you from Cambodia🙏❤️
it would be a unpredicidle situaltion. the reason why apple was able to succeed in this ARM transition was because the M1 chips were very powerful despite their very little power usage. so people started upgrading and it had demand. the Dowside of ARM was that you couldn't easily upgrade your system. but it was perfect for apple because they already had ways to make sure you couldn't upgrade the macs. Microsoft already started using qualcomm chips. but not many developers started making ARM apps because there are many other computer brands like HP and DELL who were still using x86 chips. so unless the whole industry including intel and AMD starts adopting ARM there would be no reason why developers would optimise their apps for ARM
arm is cool but i don't like the ai they are trying to push. also, i'd just prefer having socketed arm cpus just like x86 is and not having to rely on system integrators. and just have windows (and linux) be compiled and optimised for arm too along the x86 cpus
Now the PC component market is going to be REAL RGB.
Which speaker system do you have?
2026: A good setup for workstations is an ARM64 X26 DPU + 6090 HBM3 GPU + 100 TF NPU + x86/x64 legacy CPU to run these old legacy apps.
I’m not sure, but isn’t Windows 11 ARM version the one, that you can run with Parallels Desktop and vmware Fusion on the M-based Macs?
I have used the ARM based SQ1 Surface Pro X using Windows 11 for a few years. Not a speed demon and I wish it had 16GB memory, but it is surprisingly capable and converts video to H.265 using the hardware encoder fairly quickly. I upgraded to 1TB SSD and It had been my main computer for over year. Hooked up to a dock it drives my three monitor setup all while being a small light tablet on the road. Even has GPS for navigation. In general the only things it can't seem to run is related to absent USB drivers. All the 32bit and 64bit x86 programs I have tried run at an adequate speed.
I, for one, am convinced the future of laptops and maybe even desktops is ARM unless Intel can improve efficiency.
So which attempt # is this windows+nvidia cpu? Still have an old Windows RT tablet with an nvidia Soc from 2013 around my house somewhere... (think it was Tegra 3)
I love your videos bro keep em up
7:16 I love the Imtel logo
Don't forget about Ampere! They make some workstation-class Arm CPUs that run Windows on Arm native. They are a bit out of the median PC price class though.
Because they have access to the gpu architecture it would work seamlessly with cpu in ARM configuration , I believe the target is power to performance dx12 support would be awesome
This is good news. We need competition. I'm hopeful for the 64-bit only x86s CPU too. These are exciting times.
hey joe i have a ? for you.i have a windows 7 and i have a code when i do a recovery,the code is 0x80070005 how can i fix?
4:59 it is kind of hard to do ! is not as simple as getting compiled for a new platform actually ! Most of those programs take advantage of specific features present in the instruction set they were originally developed and those maybe are not present in a completely different arquitecture
Nice to meet you JhioToe
For a second, I thought ThioJoe was making one of his Olde Tyme prank videos.
Great video TheoJosh!
Apple had Rosetta 2 for Intel compatibility pretty much right from the beginning on the M1 Mac. I’ve heard that it performs a lot better than any internal compatibility with Intel programs on windows for arm, and I do personally know that it performs quite well since I have an Apple Silicon Mac and I have run Intel programs on it.
The implications are that this will be for soldered CPUs in laptops and tablets, but I hope this will also lead to ARM-based CPUs finally being available as components for desktop PCs.
Regardless, it will be interesting to see how this plays out for Nvidia, and for ARM computing as a whole.
How will ARM games be distributed? Will launchers like steam/rockstar/ubisoft automatically know which platform and download the right executable?
At the end of the video I got a video about special folders instead of a video about Windows errors!
Imagine having a PC with a Nvidia CPU, a Intel GPU, AMD RAM and LTT Motherboard
I run the ARM version of Windows 11 as a virtual machine on my macbook pro whenever i need a windows install to do something specific when i'm on the go.
it's the wrong link in the endcard
Quick tip: When referring to a generic computer, don't call it a "Windows PC", as such a machine can run a variety of operating systems and have little connect to Windows.
I'm just waiting for Qualcomm to make desktop gpus
Qualcomm making gpu is pretty much making a gpu with amd technology on it....
It's a triple combination all on one chip: CPU, GPU and AI
I'm pretty sure this is why they was trying to buy arm in the first place because if they had access to this their CPUs would literally be next level😮
With that said I'm definitely waiting until 2025 and waiting until this to drop before I even consider buying another PC😊
better get rid of x86_64 for good, if we switch to ARM for the whole pc ecosystem, we will have many choices, exynos, mediatek, google tensor, snapdragon, nvidia, amd, apple silicon and it will be very beneficial for consumers and also software makers because just make an ARM version of the software for everyone.
Surface like devices with arm cpu's 🤝
The appeal of ARM is the power efficiency. These devices will be so much longer lasting battery wise.
Genuinely curious, why is ARM (and RISC in general) so popular now, and why wasn't it as popular in the old days?
"Would you buy a specialized ARM Windows PC made by Microsoft?" I already did, it's called Windows Dev Kit 2023 (code name “Project Volterra”).
Thio joe! I remember when you did this intro with different names. Goon video as well.
That's cool, JoeJoe
Thio, I think you should try Windows 11 on arm before you discuss your thoughts, I don’t say that you are wrong, but using it will make your thoughts more clear and considerable.
I’ve used it using Parallels on an M1 MacBook Air, and it is very snappy, it almost has no compatibility issues with programs, I’ve used old, new, x86, x64 and hardware related programs, having one or two programs with issues, and there was either an arm version or another working alternative.
Even though I played some old games (maybe the first four iterations of Tomb Raider), but I am not a gamer, so gaming is another story.
Does it have support for Linux?
Furst intel made gpus and now nvidia makes cpus
Finally, you can have an all Intel, all nVidia and all AMD PC!
The thought of Windows on ARM always makes me think of how badly botched Windows RT was, or a lot of repeated issues with Windows Phone 8. It's gotta be better than that these days, but folks and software creators generally aren't receptive to adopting Microsoft specific platforms, so it's a hard sell for anyone that has reliance on x86 software being performant.
I mean...What's all this hubbub about Nvidia releasing desktop CPUs? You've already been able to run a fully featured desktop OS on their Jetson series of SBCs for something like a decade now, and if you've needed specific apps it's entirely possible to run a great number of them through translation layers for about two, and all the projects involved are quite friendly if you need to file an issue to get a specific piece of software running.
The Jetson Orin series is no slouch in capabilities and feels quite responsive in modern Linux distros, as well as having quite impressive RAM capacities for the price (compared to GPUs' VRAM) when running AI applications, to the point I've often considered getting one if only for that and the power efficiency.
6:30 ah yes, Microft, the notorious company behind Widows and Offe 365
This is fantastic. So if a Windows update doesn't screw up your computer, the Nvidia update surely will.
Funny thing; in Brazilian Portuguese, "Thio" sounds a lot like "Tio (uncle)". So, for us Brazilians you channel name sounds like Uncle Joe.
I daily-drive an Arm Windows laptop. It's slow, sure, but I get excellent (~15 hour) battery life with it and it doesn't get warm when I'm just doing things like web browsing.
Rosetta is more translation layer than emulation, thereby very efficient in running x86 programs compared to emulation like with Windows ARM and Box86/64 uses.
Think its time for ThioJoeMac videos! 🍏
I would love a kind of phone with normal windows on it. Could be possible with an arm cpu or maybe something like an Intel i3-N300.
There used to be Intel Atom phones (x86) but they were discontinued because of their poor efficiency.
@@Progress2000 I remember 'em but probably it's a bit different today cuz Alder Lake-N actually has quite some performance. At least those 8 core cpus.
This is interesting for sure
What happened to wintel?
This isnt surprising since i saw the Nexus 7 days with the Tegra SoC , now they are really making the jump to CPU's as a whole👍
I get the advantages but I hope the market doesn't ditch x86 due to the millions of programs designed for it.
6:35 Microft :D
That’s dope asf
What's strange is that my pc can run both x86 and arm64 programs. Is my pc sick?
1:04 nvtel and intell. Lol
"ThioThio" you brought it back!
Would be cool to install Linux or Windows via emulation on my old ARM Android tablets stuck on Android 11.
Possible cause I've installed Switch-root Linux on Nintendont Switch, which runs on Tegra, an Arm cpu.
Well, Microsoft is already making tablets with ARM CPUs since Windows 8 era, but so far nothing much is happening program wise. Also Lenovo makes some too.
The Nvidia thing is big though, because until now Qualcomm had exclusivity deal with Microsoft, but now that it apparently ended, other players will start making ARM chips for personal computers, just because Windows can run on them and we may get super energy efficient laptops and tablets, but for desktops, I don't think it matters what architecture you're using in them.
Microsoft used Nvidia Tegra chips in its early Surface tablet running Windows RT, which is one of MS's earliest Windows on ARM efforts. So Nvidia is no stranger to making Windows on ARM Socs.
People are using Windows because of the software which is available. Why should anybody want Windows on ARM? When I want to use ARM then I would use it with Linux because all native Software is already available.
Unlike Microsoft's first attempt at Windows on ARM with WinRT, modern versions have an x86 emulator similar to Rosetta 2 on M-series Macs.
Microsoft's plan is that as more devices are made, there will be more demand and it will be a more appealing development target. However, they don't have the same leverage as Apple as they can't just abandon x86.
In the Spring of 2023 I bought the SQ1 ver. (2019 ver.) of the MS Surface Pro X because it was on sale for 50% off. First off, the hardware/formfactor is simply gorgeous! This is truly beautiful kit. Reality sets in eventually and being powered by a ARM64 processor running Win 11it's not as snappy as the X86 equivalent and you are limited on what programs will run natively on ARM64.
I knew full well of what I was buying and was willing to put up with the shortcomings of this tablet because it's sole purpose is for me to use it to consume content and raw horsepower here is not needed, longer battery life and a gorgeous display are indeed needed. A side benefit of the Qualcomm chip is that there's a LTE modem built in allowing you access to mobile data via SIM card that you provide.
The only pleasant surprise was that the tablet came installed with Win 11.
in 0:05 You said i am ThioThio
Remember nvidia was buying arm. Microsoft and parallels partnered to support m series cpus on mac, virtual windows runs incredibly well on mac. Windows on arm will be big in server market and Microsoft already have arm surfaces. Lenovo make a snapdragon laptop supported by windows and Ubuntu.
ThioJoe: it makes sense for nvidia to be THE partner
Qualcomm:
First, a correction: x86_64 is not emulated on Windows for ARM, it is dynamically recompiled. There is no emulation overhead. The best use case for Windows on ARM right now is to be able to run Windows on an Apple Silicon Mac. I can tell you that Windows 11 ARM on an M2 Ultra absolutely flies. Almost all of the software I need is native, including Visual Studio (which can debug intel binaries on ARM).
Considering the mindset of Windows users, Windows would be a disaster on ARM. It's just not meant to run on any platform other than x86. All of the benchmarks showcased in the Snapdragon X Elite release were performed on Linux (Debian), not Windows.
The whole selling point of Windows is that you can download any random virus from the Internet and easily run it. That relies on it being x86-only. If you add ARM to the mix, that will just confuse people. "Why won't my computer run Cryptolocker? I worked just fine on my other laptop." I hear people cry.
Most modern enough Intel CPU's feature GNA which means many CPU's already accelerate AI blah-blah-blah.
Qualcomm is co-designing with Microsoft proprietary ARM SoCs, the SQ1 and SQ2 which are based on Qualcomm designs and are used in Microsoft's Surface X 2-in-1s. However, they're not anything to write home about. Rumor is that Qualcomm's agreement with Microsoft to supply the latter with ARM CPUs ends in 2024, hence everyone is trying to make ARM CPUs. Interestingly, Intel was once one of the leading ARM manufacturers when it was making StrongARM CPUs for Pocket PC handheld devices running Microsoft PocketPC OSs in the 1990s (I believe). The Pocket PC handhelds were made by HP, Compaq, Sharp and others. Intel ultimately sold the StrongARM division to another chipmake, I believe, Marvell.
Someone was having a lot of fun with those prompts
Why does nobody make a cpu with both arm & x86 for backwards compatibility
2025: Qualcomm making x86 CPUs
2059: NVIDIA making open-source drivers and microcode for Linux, to compete with RISC-V.
6969: Google making their own quantum ternary CPU architecture for the successor of Fuchsia (which already superseded Android)
We already have arm cpus all over, and ive seen it, you get it on an n100, raspberry pi 4 5 , orange pi 5 and 5 plus as well as full built arms💪💪 I build everything at home just in case.
I am waiting for rtx and quadro cpu series
Well, they used to make motherboard chipsets and drivers for them back in the day.
ARM desktops would be an interesting novelty. Not exactly very practical for gaming, but most non-tech folks wouldn't notice.
7:42 as a gamer, no.
The funny part of this is Intel did have an ARM line of cpus for a bit called StrongARM
Well we got Nvidia's Orin SoCs for their Jetson Boxes, we can use that as a basis since that runs Ubuntu. It's only up from here.
If Microsoft really commit to ARM, and all the players in ARM space release competitive offerings, it will be great.
But, it will take a gen or two of both hardware and software to be reliable, efficient and offer great performance in most cases.
1:29 and that is the reason why Windows 11 works on Lumia 950/950XL.
Pc market is still big in laptop and data center
You should say Thio Woah as the intro name.