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20 x F-22 Raptors vs 100 x Su-35 Super Flankers: 5th Gen vs 4th Gen Battle | DCS
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- IMPROVED Attempt Vid: • IMPROVED 20 x F-22 Rap...
We use DCS World to simulate a long range aircraft battle between twenty 5th Gen F-22 Raptors and over one hundred 4th Su-35 Super Flankers. Can the raptors overcome the numerical odds?
0:00 Overview
1:35 Aircraft/Weapon Details
5:02 Battle Details
9:35 Predictions
11:16 Redfor/Blufor Planning
13:08 FIGHT 1
30:41 FIGHT 2
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IMPROVED Attempt Vid: czcams.com/video/fqtU-dqh_JI/video.html
What if you had 20 humans in the F-22s? They would still have problems with deconflicting targets, but they could at least avoid launching all of their missiles at the front Flanker.
Damn fine point Potato (if I may be so familiar?), also it would be reasonable to expect the AWAC'S would have an escort?
I could imagine a scenario where they might divide into five groups with flights of two plus two, A active and B reserve setting up a 'chainsaw'; B would hold back and replace as A went 'winchester (probably losing ground to maintain their superior range)' , it would certainly aid with 'deconfliction'. Obviously the groups would fan out. This might work better but the major fault with my fiendish strategy is how long it takes A to return and re-arm? The 'Blob' is a mighty foe!
So maybe four initial groups as above, with four F-22's held in reserve and directed to plug the gaps? It's still a mighty 'ask' but surely if any worthy humanoid group could do it, it would be the Grim Reapers (cough cough).
Taking an overview, if there was such a situation with 20 F-22's on one base and a known threat from the 'Blob' I would expect there would be mutual support and defence both land based and Naval.
Still, damn good fun though.
Merry Christmas, I hope it's a good one.
Pax
@@conmcgrath7174 Yes, the key would be to keep all the F-22s from firing at once. I would think human tactics carried out by human pilots could still beat the Blob.
@@conmcgrath7174 AWACS would never have escort as the ideal battle scenario is your fighting force is enough to hold greater than the minimum distance for OPFOR to engage the AWACS. Airborne radar's purpose is to extend your missile range beyond the enemy's missile range. An AWACS loss (how and why) would be, outside of the absolute operation failure, the key information that tells you exactly where your weaknesses are/how you made mistakes.
The AWACS would RTB/egress if or when the combat theater threatens them. Given that they have (up to) 400 nautical miles of "sight", the AWACS knows well ahead of time where they should be positioned.
I was thinking the same thing all those missiles in the second fight were wasted. Proper deconfliction will win the day easily for the F-22.
@@TykeMison_ I bow to your greater knowledge, but 'hang on a sec' two things, firstly I must admit most of my opinion of modern air warfare is based on watching Grim Reapers? They have certainly in the past provided escorts to AWACS, right or wrong tactically. Secondly, I was informed by a trusted serving Officer of HRM's forces that in an exercise (possibly 80's/90's) that the RAF did indeed 'potentially' take out an AWACS of the USA, though I'm willing to admit it might have been Canada, I'm not so well versed on the subject.
I get your point but you didn't address all that I said originally, it ended 'Taking an overview, if there was such a situation with 20 F-22's on one base and a known threat from the 'Blob' I would expect there would be mutual support and defence both land based and Naval.'
Anyway, it's just a game and damn funny at times. Seasons greetings, I hope you have a good one.
Pax
I love how illness has turned all the Reapers into belly-laughing pirates.
😆
Wow. I love how redfor's planning immediately starts off with targeting violet, drawing her away and running her out of gas. Who can blame them though? She's a hell of a pilot. Also grump's foresight to know that they would be trying to draw them out and reminding violet to keep distance and an eye on fuel. It's like you guys have been doing this together for years or something... 😂
and then they both immediately get too close to AI planes and get shot down XD
With only two human "Blue crew" pilots, instead of going into the fight I'd move to escort my Sky Eyes.
@@timbaskett6299 AWACS has always been an after thought in GR.... in the real World, it's the top priority.
fun video cap, but.... I think it would be a better sim if you had an all human f22 force against AI su-35 force. because you need more intelligent use of the limited missiles carried by the f-22. AI will just muck it up. Just a suggestion. love the channel and all you guys.
would be much smaller and they did this probably already.
This is a good suggestion
This or 2 raptors v 10 SU-35’s would help with deconfliction as well, or all jets could be human pilots?
Love the way Cap says "Raptorrr". Sounds like he's had a stroke mid way through saying the word 😂
These battles may not always go as planned, but they sure are fun! Thanks, Cap.
ST-21 Super Tomcat's with AIM-152 GDW's VS F-18 Super Hornet's with AIM-120D's👍👍
Zeppelin's and Boat Planes VS AC-130's and UH-1H's!
Rules-- AC-130's fight Zeppelin's and vise versa! UH-1H's fight Boat Planes and vise versa! However Boat Planes can only attack AC-130's side with Cannons no flanking attacks and The UH-1H's can only attack Zeppelin's with Door Gunner!👍
UH-1H, SA342 Gazelle, and AH-64 Apache VS Mi-17, Mi-24 Hind, and Ka-50 Black Shark 3!
F-111 Aardvark VS MIG-27K
F-86 Sabre VS A-10 Thunderbolt II
P-47 Thunderbolt VS SU-25 Frogfoot
MB-339 Aermacchi VS MIG-15
A-1 Skyraider VS F4U Corsair
J-7 VS MIG-21
AV-8 Harrier VS MIG-23 Flogger
J-10 VS SU-27
F-22 Raptor and F-15EX Eagle II VS 18 North Korean MIG-29's BVR!
F-22 out front attacks from maximum range and F-15EX 100 miles behind burns forward joining the fight with a wall of AMRAAM's!
I was just thinking about the super tomcat and what engines would be best.
The Raptor may be stealthier from behind than you think. There's a radial blocker in the exhaust. You can see the turbine hardware with your eyes if you look straight up the exhaust, but microwaves have a harder time of it.
Roger noted.
Cap, as another year comes to an end, I wanted to thank you and the GR crew for providing endless hours or entertainment once again. As I've mentioned before, I have no interest in getting into this game...sorry...sim...but it always ranges from informative to hilarious when you guys are around...
All the very best.
You said it for me!
Happy Christmas, I hope it's a great one.
Pax
My pleasure Glider! x
@@grimreapers one big issue you stated Russia middles where futuristic when, in fact whrn I fact thryeciding and have been using the hypersonic missile for several months which would blow a F22 out kf the sky.
@@Grant80 not really because the problem is still the fact that the f22 has stealth. Also I believe the US is getting very close to having hypersonic missiles, if we don’t already.
Just watched a Ward Carrol video on the F-15EX that pointed out that the most lopsided 5th-Gen kill ratios happen at Red Flag type exercises with a mix of 4th and 5th Gen on Blue Force. He likened detecting F-22s alone to hearing the quiet tones on a hearing test in the sound booth, vs hearing those same tones at a rock concert when 4th-Gen is making all kinds of em clutter.
I love it how so many people in the comment section try finding excuses for the Raptors loss 😂
Great video GR! 👍
Next time try only humans on the f-22 side as the AI seem way worse then humans, especially when you need a bit of strategy to take on the blob.
rgr
'Quantity has a quality all of its own.'
My brother was an AWACS pilot. He flew in Desert Shield & Desert Storm. He could not given an details about AWAC flight patterns but he said that the vital plane was well protected & did not fly into harms way…too vital an asset to place in danger
the blob would most likely win, but the results of both battles were negatively affected by AI for the raptor team. i think at minimum the raptors would take down at least half (50) reds instead of the 20-25 in the sim.
In a real fight, the raptors would not be constrained to landing on Malta. If they stayed high energy (altitude + speed) and sent at least aim-120 after each incoming high energy flanker, the flankers should be forced to dive into thicker air, sacrificing most energy. Even if this did not buy enough time to restock ammo at Malta, it should give enough of an energy advantage to easily escape to Turkey or Crete. Their superior supercruise would enable restocking there before any red air arrives.
Now, this assumes that the flankers would overwhelm the raptors in the first place, which is not at all obvious. With good coordination of the targeting, and with focus on high energy flankers, the flankers should be forced to stay low as long as some raptors have aim-120s remaining. Not only would this reduce the speed that the flankers could close at (potentially enough to allow some flankers to restock at any time), it would also limit the range of the R77s. Low energy flankers could thus safely be allowed to approach closer to the raptors, meaning any aim-120s eventually launched at them would have a much higher kill probability.
In a real fight, there would also be patriot batteries around the blue airbases, naval forces in the area and other air assets placed nearby, which would quickly turn this engagement very one-sided. Russia is not even able to fly over Ukraine. There is no way they would be able to project air superiority over Nato territory for very long.
Now, if this video is really about Taiwan, then things might be different there. Such a fight (if including the USA) would be radically bigger, though, and a simulation would have to include thousands of planes, SAMs, cruise missiles and naval units. Allied defenses would need to have multiple layers, with some stationed on Taiwan, some on Japanese islands and several carriers to the rear. Probably beyond the scope of a youtube video, though.
The Kuznetsov is on fire ...... again.
Isn't it always on fire? 😆
🤣
It's been on fire for years and even sunk once, but still going strong. What a tough beast!
@@peterfinland1370 Not exactly going strong really is it. I mean it cannot complete a tour without breaking down. They got a few hundred nautical miles away from shore and asked the Americans to supply them with drinking water because the filtration system broke down. The only thing going strong in the Russian Navy is the tug boats and salvage crews.
Kuznetsov roasting on an open fire...'tis the season.
The obvious next option is to distribute the f-22s across several airbases.
Wouldn't matter, force multipliers like stealth just increases the likelihood of winning, not the number of enemies you can fight. If you have no chance of winning due to numbers your still not going to win.
The missles would come from different azimuths, making it almost impossible for 10 raptors to shoot at one guy
Cap needs to stop having the combatants all start the mission by scrambling from airbases or carriers, all it does is string them out and cause them to engage each other in a way that would never happen in real life, and watching aircraft scramble from an airbase is not an important variable of what's being tested. An F-22 can be supersonic before the end of the runway, but the AI treats it like a grandma out for a Sunday drive, so what's being proven here? Cap should just start everyone in the air, organized into flights of four, and separated in space to deconflict adjacent flights for at least the first exchange of missiles.
@@jasonosmond6896 "An F-22 can be supersonic before the end of the runway"..... yeah..... sure..... 🙄
@@danielberger1378 take it up with this guy if you have a problem with it: czcams.com/video/lltMfkj1yPU/video.html
I love how both plans take Violet into account 💜
Great video 🤙
Simba and Grump are definitely my two favorite Reapers. Always entertaining!
I'm not so sure.
After all, can anyone compete with Grumpnik?
Give the Su's their R27ET for more fun!
U.S. Navy VS Iranian Attack!
Drone Sworm! Silkworms with Flack Guns defending and Iranian air to air F-14's protection! Iranian anti ship F-14's, Iranian UH-1H's, and Boghammars all attacking together! VS U.S. Carrier Fleet!👍
Stealth Squadron's and Futuristic Planes VS Star Destroyer Fleet!
Stealth Squadron's Center Front Formation-- Flying in Two Formations of Five-- Ten F-22 Raptors! Few miles behind-- Five F-117's! Flying a few miles behind-- Four B-2 Spirits in formations of Two!
Right Flank-- Ten ST-21's! Few miles behind-- Five F-16V Block 72's with Optical Camo and Ten F-15STOL/MTD's! At a higher altitude few miles behind-- Four YF-12A's! Flying underneath-- Two B-1R's, Two B-21 Raiders, and Five F-15EX's with AIM-260's! Few miles behind-- Two New Hypersonic "UFO's"! Plus The Millennium Falcon with Four X-Wing's and Two Y-Wing's!
Left Flank-- Ten F-35's Five with LRASM! Few miles behind-- Ten F-117's in Two formations of Five! In the back-- Four B-2 Spirits! Please obviously include a few AWACS
Star Destroyer Fleet-- LOTS of Tie-Fighters, Good amount of Tie-Interceptors, Eight Tie-Hunters, and Four Corvette Raiders!! Corvettes start airborne!!🙏
U.S. Carrier Fleet 3rd* rematch VS Russian Carrier Fleet! Russian Carrier has half MIG-29KR's half SU-33's! U.S. Carrier Fleet has Iowa Class Battleship and LHA Amphibious Assault Ship with F-35's/LRASM and Helicopters! U.S. Carrier has half F-18 Super Hornet's and half ST-21 Super Tomcat's! Please have The F-18's take off first and Helicopters on Support Ships! Human Pilots-- U.S. F-15EX or F-22 and Russian SU-35 or SU-57!🙏
i think you would get a better idea of what would really happen if each f22 was human controlled so you can get around the stupid ai... and really that will not hurt the russians much as max skill is likely already a huge buff vs reality
Maybe I'll get some guys together and we'll try 20 humans vs AI reds. Takes a while to organise the guys.
@@grimreapers 10 vs 50 should still work for what you're doing. Probably a more realistic scenario too.
Cap, Raptors are *definitely* stealthy from the back and you can *not* "see the turbine blades", at least not in the microwave spectrum, due to how the exhaust ducts are designed. The F-22 is famous for its all-aspect VLO characteristics and the elaborate exhaust signatures reductions (some of which can still be seen in person on the stripped-down museam pieces) that made it possible.
The All-Aspect stealth of the F-22 is one of the biggest (public) reasons why the F-22 was never, and obviously also will never be, cleared for export to any country, not even to the US's closest NATO allies.
This stands in stark comparison to the F-35 program, which is being exported to many countries all around the world, while it has (arguably) a better stealth coating technology, as well as more modern avionics, sensors, etc.
The compromise that seems to have made this possible is exactly that explicit exclusion of all-aspect stealth from the F-35, specifically from the rear-quarter.
Roger thanks for feedback!
" Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers"- Serious Sam Stone.
How about 10 f-22 humanoids against 50 ai su 35? AI fire everything at the same target, and they were in no rush going home. Love the vids
Wouldn't help.
Will try.
And have 1 human directing the others onto targets.
@Nicoli It would help quite a bit since they'd be flying back to base as if there were a swarm of enemy fighters on their tail, as well as firing their missiles in a somewhat more intelligent way.
@@grimreapers Maybe have a few F15EXs as support or F35s which would be the most likely scenario
Guy in a white van, "Are you the one they call Cap? You need to come with us!"
Very cool the violet AI knows how to rtb
Grump promised me cookies if I had at least some form of self preservation
Have yet to receive cookies though
@@violetmoon5702 No one gets to tempt people with cookies and not give them afterward! Justice for Violet! Cookies from Grump!
Fly: I got a lock. I'm very happy right now.
Me: You're about to be much less happy.
Nice one guys. Surely though, if the de-conflicting was not an issue, the result would be very different. I don't know; I'm just asking.
Yeh de-confliction is the problem here.
I hate to see Raptor(s) being blown up in such large numbers, but this demonstration was quite entertaining. Blob is all knowing and all seeing! Thanks for putting in the time and effort to make blob happen!
Happily do the research. Teacher got to have something to do during the xmas break
Regarding sharing, it's worth looking at the license conditions of the mods, the creators may have actually chosen to allow people to further change/tweak/improve them.
Conclusion: The aI done goofed
agree
....that Flanker's one sexy aircraft!
But Cap, you always entertain us. In fact your dedication to get it right is what makes your work so much fun.
Besides, I love seeing Violet trying to break the laws of physics.
Very unreal the 1x5 ratio
You should try 1x3
It is said quantity has a quality all of it’s own.
something that could work for distributing the plane mods is to create an installer that overrides the files on the planes that you modified. that way people can download the originals and support the creators, and then use the gr installer to make them more realistic and add all the new weapons
Almost need to use teh bug to your advantage and send them all to different points before they start their CAP to try and de-conflict them. Though if all the Flankers funnel to the same point in a blob like that, they'll prob still all fire on the same targets...
IIRC doesn't the R-77-1 have its own AESA radar? That might explain how they can pick up stealth aircraft at close range.
When Grump died the first time, I shouted Tom Brady is down. He really is like Tom Brady when he is leading his team.
Not watched yet but I'm guessing the Flanker will start out slow but eventually overwhelming dominate the F22
😂😂😂
Major note: the su-35 can target the f-22 from about 53 ish miles out because of its updated irst.
There is a reason the russians kept it while the Americans abandoned. Infact, americans are trying to bring it back. The irst can track the infrared signature of the aircraft from far out and guide either a long range infrared missile the r-27ET or guide the r-77-1 on datalink to the target, as infrared target information can be transferred to datalink.
Lastly the su-35 has a reduced cross-section of 1.2-1.5m^2 rcs. It uses stealth coating between 0.7mm to 1.4mm thick to reduce rcs.
Just a notice, the su-35 is much more formidable than portrayed. Please don’t let it’s current poor performance in Ukraine due to poor planning and lack of combined arms, be a factor in its judgement. If the su-35s in the current conflict weren’t dealing with constant SAM threats, they would have obliterated the air-force of Ukraine.
IM a PRO-Ukrainian AMERICAN. slava ukraine 🇺🇦 but I want us as grown adults to take facts over feelings. Thank you 🙏🏾
The f-22 is the most formidable fighter out there, nothing comes close BUT lets not underestimate rival aircraft just because we’re on top. It happened in Vietnam and in the pacific. We have a bad habit of underestimating the enemy, and it’s truly sad.
Interestingly the effective range of Typhoon's IRST has doubled in the last ten years without touching the sensors. Just vastly more powerful real-time data processing of the returned signals. The same reason (tranche 3+) RAF Typhoons are tracking RN F-35Bs at up to 90 miles - real-time digital RADAR and IR return data processing is a game changer. Similarly IRIS-T and ASRAAM AI is so good, if you are in their "sight" - you're dead. Flares - towed decoys - whatever - hopeless against them.
In a real life scenario; I think the SU would win.
F22 has fewer missiles and burns fuel like a madman in dog fight. In a battle of this magnitude, 50 SU would engage to make them burn fuel then send up 50 more halfway through the battle. SU would chase them back to base. Then as they either have to land due to fuel or pull ejection seat. Either way the planes won’t be used again.
Only thing that would save the F22 would be over lapping surface to air near base as they land.
That ratio was way too much… maybe lower the number and enable them to fight to the death. That RTB command was the death sentence… run it again and allow the ai to do the thrust vectoring. Gladiator style fight to the death…find the ratio the raptors can handle. Also the humans going way around to pop shot the awacs is sus too. Love your videos, and all the work your doing. Caps reactions are priceless
The F 22 raptor has capabilities that aren’t even known to the public it’s able to confuse other planes radar systems by sending out different signals and jam enemy radars also as part of its stealth capabilities
Merry Christmas and a happy New Year if you don't post before then.
Still the funnest show on CZcams! Awesome job Cap and all the reapers!
30secs into the video and the first word that came to me was "PHWOAAR" 😍
irl it would be 100 raptors against 30 flankers with undertrained pilots using chinese smart phones for navigation.
Who can afford 100 Raptors?
@Rob K Pretty sure they haven't lost half the fleet to accidents.
WOPR: would you like to play a game?
Cap: How about Massive 5 on 1 AI 4th gen vs 5th gen air battle.
WOPR: Wouldn’t you rather play a nice game of chess?
this is where the F-15 Strike Eagle (or EX) with its capability to carry up to 22 Air to air missiles comes in handy
If you had put four Raptors at each of five bases around the island, at the very least each group would go for whatever reds were closest to them.
VERY Funny guys! THANKS CAP 😂
This test represents 2/3 of the existing Su-35s and only 1/9 of the existing F-22 fleet. USAF prioritizes quantity and quality.
The problem with this, and the reason it’s not working, is the red side knows the raptors are coming, and where they are coming from, which automatically handicaps them with such a numerical disadvantage to start. The second issue, is you’ve set the bases too close together, so the side with more plains will win every time because their is not enough time for the raptors to land and re-arm before the swarm arrives. Finally, it is completely unrealistic to have 35 shots out on a single target. Idk how to fix that in the parameters of the game, but obviously this would not happen irl.
Suggestions to fix…..have the takeoff points out of range of each other. Don’t give each side prior knowledge of where the other side is starting from. Instead, set a battlefield zone that they each fly toward for the engagement.
Is it possible to set a deconfliction, e.g. 5 F-22 go to this waypoint after taking off, 5 to this one, etc...?
Just need to get them to break up somehow so they arent all on the same trajectory towards the enemy.
Make it 4 as in Finger 4’s and have them go to different locations or waypoints that are 40-60 km apart so they’re dealing with different opponents!
I tried, but as soon as combat starts, planes ignore orders and just fire at their biggest threat. Just have to let them get on with it.
@@grimreapers Likely as they can see the enemy as soon as they take off, you would have to either stagger coming into detection range or perhaps have the AWACS on some kind of spawn or activation delay.
Cap, I'm glad you're better! But ngl I will miss you dying laughing coughing
Just curious Cap... If you were given full control of ED, with all of the development team at your disposal, ready to change even the hardcoded programs in DCS, what would be the first thing you do to make life easier for modders and/or gamers?
ooof big question. From my experience we would want access to core missile code. Currently everything with all of our missiles has to be "bodged" which causes all sorts of problems.
I calculated an approximate value of $9,933,000,000 in planes and missiles for this battle, breaking down to roughly:
$1,870,000,000 in su-35s
$7,163,000,000 in f-22s
$600,000,000 in e-3s
$146,000,000 in r-77s
$1,600,000 in r-73s (I estimated $200,000 per missile, this figure is in the ballpark of other modern FOX-2s such as AIM-X and IRIS-T)
$152,400,000 in aim-120ds
It's a rough estimate but the scale still holds
This article suggests that stealth detection ranges may be larger than thought: Search f-35-vs-su-35-nato-pilot-says-f-35-stealth-fighters. Look for eurasiantimes.
The reporting from Eurasian Times on aviation stuff seems biased towards Russia/China from what I've read of it, I'd take anything from them with a pinch of salt.
The official simba fan club would like to thank violet and grump for doing such a great job, and cap for putting together such a brilliant battle! Of course the peoples hero had an excellent strategy!
For the cost of aircraft, you’d be better having a blob of F-16’s against the blob of Flankers.
I’m not sure if they can in real life, but if the AMRAAMs had the ability to redirect to the next target after the first one is killed, it would have been a slaughter the other way.
Que loco todo eso che!!!👀🧿☝🏼👍🏼🦾👌😮
would love to know what the DCS team think of you Cap.
Noooo, you probably don't. Cap has dropped some hints about their "relationship". I gather they don't exchange holiday cards anymore.
They are not very happy with me.
That was one of the best 👍🏽
I wonder if it would be different if all humans were in the F-22 if that would make a difference
Love the content, keep it coming. I’ve often wondered, though, is it realistic to have all AI set to max? Not all pilots are going to be at that level of training. Just a thought. Appreciate you and your team.
It's already unrealistic to have 2/3 of every Su-35 ever built in one engagement in the Med, much less having that concentration surprising a small OPFOR of only Raptors. The idea is to test the metal, not the thinky bits.
As someone once said, "numbers have a quality of their own"......as long as your planes/tanks etc are reasonably decent, big numbers or 'blobs' of them can take down superior weapons systems.....
Maybe a bit more of a feasible engagement like 1:3 or 10 vs 30 and see what happens - Simple test, interesting fight
Hi! I have a technical question. Perhaps I will come out as someone who does not know about the equipment, but for some time I have been wondering about one thing. Camera movement. I've noticed that both in your videos and other youtubers' videos, it's very fluid (especially when viewed from the cockpit). The recording shows virtually no resistance or jumps, which makes watching it more enjoyable. Is it due to hardware, settings? Personally, I think it may be due to the "throttle mouse" ( the controller on the body of throttle), if you know what I mean. Right? And im also wondering, if Saitek's x52 Pro controller can make a simillar movement using its controller.
the f22 is rated for a kill ratio of 1:3 or 1 f22 down for every 3 4th gen fighters so the 1:5 ratio in this battle is probably too much for the raptor to handle. instead, in real life they would push the raptors to take down their awacs and provide tracking for f15 missile trucks which will spam missiles at the mass to counter the bad pk of the AIM 120s in the video
This is where the fun begins!!
100% confident in the F-22, it will crush the SU-35.
Maybe double the Raptor's or give them better Missles... dam... I can't believe they lost. I didn't know that about RTB mode, that they just stop fighting.
@@nathaniellazo5912 Its just a numbers game really, with over 100 planes to shoot down they either need to have a near 100% kill per missile ratio with their first wave of AIM-120's or have the AI fixed so that they actually fire all their missiles at right away at max range and RTB on full afterburner so they can re-arm faster. Either way, by the time the Raptors get back in the air they will just be swarmed by the SU-35s. Even if all the the AI problems were fixed I'd still only call it a maybe 50% chance the raptors win, Its just so many SU-35s.
That bursted quickly!
Id like to see this scaled down 1:5 and use all human pilots and maybe provide the Raptor one respawn. The deconfliction, as said a thousand times, is just awful.
These are the two best air superiority fighters of their generations. You have chosen wisely.
1 AIM-120D is about $1.2 million, 1 AIM-9X is about $604,000, 1 F-22 costs $139 million. If you do some math, all of that comes out to $147,408,000 for one raptor with all this equipment. This isnt counting maintenance btw. 2 E-3 sentry aircraft cost $400,000,000. For all the stuff on the blue side, you would have to invest $3,348,160,000 in hardware. Give or take a few million
Cut down on the number of SU-57’s and add about 10-15 F-15X’s armed with long range missiles coming from another direction. Maybe this would tie up the 57’s and give the Raptors a better chance.
Thanks!
F22 Vs 4 Apache ideally in mountains
With out any possibility of doubt. For any fixed level of spending. Su-35 is the best fourth gen. If you used the money that would be spent on 100 su-35 to buy western jets, you might get 30-40 in the air. Probably less. 1:38
F-22 pilots say that if the F-22 gets within visual range of an enemy aircraft the F-22 pilot has done something wrong.
The PK of AMRAAM above 30 miles is terrible - Raptors will have to get into RADAR contact range with their enemy to get a reasonable chance of a kill. The US made a huge mistake putting all their eggs in the stealth basket and ignoring the weapons. Now they are having to play catch-up with missile tech.
@Grim Reapers Hi, been a fan for years and would like to get some more info as I’ve recently got a lot of time on my hands. Thanks 😊
Just 1 F-22 can beat 100 Su-35s even tho it only has 6 missiles! Thats science and you can't argue with science. ;-)
This video fundamentally demonstrates the failure to understand the concept of "Force Multiplier" by most people. It does not increase the number of enemies you can defeat, but the likelihood that you can defeat a similar sized element. 20 fighters have effectively little to no chance of winning against 100, so if say stealth Is a 5x force multiplier and the chance of success is 1% for normal planes, then they may have a 5% chance of winning the fight.
I honestly once thought that you said "hello valid viewers" and that you meant by it that those of us who don't have the level of knowledge of jet's and aviation as yourselves,,, and I honestly felt as though I was not truly a valid viewer in that respect!
However I still couldn't stop watching and I just thought sod it,, I'll figure it out on the way and excuse the pun but wing it until I knew everything you talk about in your videos..
Now though I feel like a valued viewer and I really really enjoy your videos, they're fun, exciting, tense and educational,,, and also funny at times,
Keep up the good work fellas 👍👍
lols maybe I should change it to Valid!
Couple notes:
-The simulation/system just isn't built to handle that many AI fighters actively fighting each other simultaneously. Suggest tuning it down to something like 4vs20 or even 2vs10 and just adding more repetitions.
-With a ratio of one-to-five Raptors vs Flankers respectively, the Raptors are going to be very strained on missiles - if each of them misses more than just _one_ AMRAAM they're going to have to close in for fox2 or guns.
Doesn't DCS have a mod dependency system? Damn, that's pretty much a must have nowadays for any game with a modding community. Games like Fallout 4 come to mind, where the inherited values in any mod files are just compiled at initialization, but I suppose DCS multiplayer is buggy enough.
I suspect that as you alluded to, Cap, the processing power of the "server" just couldn't handle the load. If the AWACS had enough breathing room in terms of CPU to guide the missiles, the PK would have been much much higher and the blob would have been more of a drip. It would be interesting to see how that would work on a dedicated machine. Very nice job on the set up.
But as DCS is not a sim - it uses simple trigger points so the missile are not deconflicted properly. So the outcome would be the same. In real life the AMRAAMS could be given a new target in flight if the intended target has been taken out. In a target rich environment like this just the confusion alone would guarantee a fair few kills.
I have to agree with this assessment
@@LondonSteveLee Then I am confused. Digital Combat Simulator -- DCS. What am I missing?
@@billisaacs702 The implication seems to be that _DCS_ takes shortcuts in its simulation to allow more stuff at the cost of a 1:1 relation with reality, with the hope that the shortcut wouldn't affect the outcome, and they guessed wrong. A common example from games is the use of hitscan for guns rather than simulating a ballistic trajectory and individual bullets, or indestructible terrain.
Regarding the best 5th gen fighter: on a per-unit basis the F-22 easily wins, but nations don’t build single aircraft (excluding the Busan, for obvious reasons), and with the per-unit cost of the F-35 only about 2/3rds the cost of an F-22 (disregarding inflation as these figures are a decade apart, if I used comparable production year costs the F-35 would be less than half the cost of an F-22) the F-35 is easily the better choice to field a fleet - you can have twice as many aircraft that are almost as good one on one, but that’s also designed for multi role missions and more importantly can sync with other F-35s and legacy aircraft allowing F-15s (for example) to be used as missile trucks and leverage the F-35s superior radar for fire control. This means the F-35 is a force multiplier beyond its own capabilities in ways the F-22 is not.
Of course if the US had replaced the F-15/16 fleet with F-22s as planned that wouldn’t be valuable, but with what actually happened (190 vs 800+) the F-35s are simply a far better value…. Even if the F-22 is way sexier.
OOH nice a grim reapers vid ace. Merry Christmas to you and all your team Cap and to all the fans and a fab new year.
I think that you done the best you could with what you have. I only have 2 ideas, first of which I don't think is posable. First, maybe set the 22's to launch 5 at a time with 30 sec. between sets and most importantly (which I don't think you can do) have them run full burn during rtb. Second choice is as said by others, run full human 22's. Well done none the less!
AWESOOOOOME
Get woke go broke! This bud light for you guys! Good luck GR.
Any commander worth the title would send his/her fighters up in a 200+ km arc & would use a program such as Quarterback or Aegis to insure the missiles hit multiple targets. The commander would also assign planes to protect the AWACS.
It was already modelled (read someone did back of the envelope maths) that a mass attack by Chinese air on the close US airbases would overwhelm any reasonably plausible F22 CAP as they can't carry enough missiles in their internal bays. The US advantage since after Vietnam has been in much better situational awareness via AWACS, numbers and in being a generation or two ahead. It's why there's some thought to using stealth fighters as sensors for missile truck planes with long range missiles in the back such as the new JATM as a force multiplier.
Quantity is its own quality. Great episode GR.
About to watch it and I expect it will be very messy and go very badly for the SU-35s.
After watching: oh well.
Me too but I don't think the Flanker will be beaten, there's just too many
Just to point this out but the entire Russian Airforce has only 110 Su35. So this would be the whole of Russian Air superiority fleet managing to get almost the entire force operating at once vs 1 F22 squadron.
It just put 95% of the existing SU 35s versus about 22% of the existing F22s. Fair maybe, realistic no.
Genuine question form a dummy. When the missile is tracking in game and the missile flips would that actually happen with a real missile when its attempting to track a target?
Personally I don't think so.