REACTING to First Warhammer 40K Win Rates Since the Update...
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
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0:00 Intro
2:49 Space Marines
4:38 Perhaps Weaker Armies?
8:00 Middle Tier?
13:07 Stronger on Early Win Rates?
16:03 Early Top Win Rate Armies?
19:18 Tournament Wins
20:19 Play Rate
21:26 Outro - Hry
Auspex broadcasting at all hours like he’s doing election coverage.
@pleasantpeasant3313 ok but like i would trust him actually cuz it’s clear he does research lol
Hahahahaha
Hahaha
0 zero seats for trories 🤞
But unlike the politics people actually pat attention to AT
I'm glad the most baffling flavor fail of all time, the neurotyrant not being able to lead zoanthropes, is finally dead, and you can have a unit of six zoanthropes led by the, you know, mutated super-zoanthrope.
RIP Kroot lmao
Stat-check has no data on them, Goonhammer has them at 40% for casual games but Meta Monday has them at a solid 18%. No top or even high tourney placements as far as I could see either. Sadness
couldnt agree more. yes, lets Nerf Kroot who were mediocre prior to balance slate. GW is awful at this.
The issue with the ork codex is they overnerfed meganobz which were a key unit in almost every detachment, and basically nerfed the two best detachments whilst doing nothing for the other detachments. A single keyword change could do a lot to make dreadmob more viable (chiefly, give lootas and burnas, the mek keyword, maybe even let meks/big meks lead flash gitz), a lot of ork units could do with points decreases, BSBs are hilariously overcosted compared to regular boyz, killa kans, deff dreads, and the buggies could all do with some love from GW. Instead they cost meganobz on their old FNP and then nerf the FNP as well. I do think most people are just sick of war horde so top orks players will pivot to other armies and that will suppress the win rate, but they will likely remain in the 40s, GW jumped the gun based on early results and fear that they'd do too well in pariah nexus.
Green Tide nerfs also were over done. I could understand the charge strat rework, but everything else was ridiculous. 6+ invun for any squad not at 20 limits what you can do for lists and losing the reroll in the case of more than 10 now turned to 5+ invun makes saving boyz moot. As a long time ork player, I was having a great time with the back and forth. Orkz were in a good place and GW destroyed that cause tournament play.
Big mek with shokk attack gun with lootas has an insane damage output, downside is they die to a stiff breeze
My theory is that the GW balance team have a personal grudge against high survivability units. Similar to how they treat flyers/indirect fire. So Meganobz days were always numbered. And after the Necron warrior blob issues in early 10th, recursion mechanics were also in the firing line.
Yeah feels like they really could have brought up a few of the other detachments, as a beast snagga player I would love to run Da Big Hunt detachment more but It's rules are so restrictive and really don't play well into some armies. Also feels bad that my other army is GSC...
As an added bonus, we didn't even get any tangential buffs since we don't exactly have captains with the CP reduction for stratagems.
I think Drukhari were a big benefactor of the artillery nerf. They were quite vulnerable to indirect.
T'au having both a below average win rate and being the faction tied for the most tournament wins is truly a T'au moment
My last tournament was won by a Tau player, and had 2 Tau players at the bottom lol
Its an extreme skill cap army.
Truly a “just get good” faction
@@nicoleandscottnelson3933 yeah the skill ceiling is very high, and internal faction balance is okay, so it leads to stuff like this
@@elibomba6158 didn't MetaMonday have the Kroot detachment at a 18% win rate?
Glory to HIS imperial guard
The Emperor's TRUE FINEST!
A day in the guard is like a day on the farm. Every meal a banquet, every pay check a fortune. I love the guard!
I play Imperial Fists. My bolters feel like they're firing wet tissue paper and my meltas feel like hair blowers. The ranged options of space marines feel like they got hit exceptionally hard by the new toughness scaling, but maybe that's just my experience.
What detachment are you running? That plays a bigger part of it than the paint or even raw datahseet stats
Melta weapons got boned but what hurt much more were MELEE options being nerfed by the toughness changes.
SM weapon in 10th designed with full re-roll to hit and wound OoM in mind, but then GW change OoM and don't give enything in return.
@@JimH. Indeed, at bare minimum they should hand out the anti keyword to a few weapons. Thunder hammers for example, why anyone would choose hammers over fists not that oath doesn't allow re-roll wounds is beyond me.
If the melta-rule was changed to also include increased str at close range that would certainly help. At least push them to Str 10 base if nothing else.
WE CLAIMED THE UPPER TIER IN THE NAME OF THE IMPERIAL GUARD
I think codex marines could be pretty easy to fix: if you don't have any specialist chapter keyword units in your army, you gain X new rule. Because the codex is already out, it'd have to alter an existing rule and be a simple patch, but it should be doable.
I think that the easiest, most impactful, but also most boring fix would patch Oath of Moment:
At the end of the Declare Combat Formations step, units in your army gain the CODEX ASTARTES keyword if your army does not contain any BLACK TEMPLARS, BLOOD ANGELS, DARK ANGELS, DEATHWATCH, or SPACE WOLVES models. When a CODEX ASTARTES unit makes an attack against your Oath of Moment target, you may re-roll the wound roll.
just give them additional targets for oath or reduce points by a lot
Full wound re-roll of Oath is not coming back but maybe we can get AP increase on oath target
Easy and simple fix, so GW will probably instead lower the cost of some unplayed units.
@@vinterbjork4128 No reason desolation squads should cost 200 pts still when most their dps comes from the main gun that's not indirect, and indirect was also nerfed to be bs4+ game wide.
@@PhoenixRising200reducing points wouldn’t work because it would just be boosting non codex chapters at the same time and probably propel those into the stratosphere
What? You mean nerfing space marines while they were already one of the weakest armies DIDNT make them more viable?
@@venlocity2 I'm absolutely shocked (said no one)
HERESY
Calgar is way undercoated, we should nerf him at 250 points :)
Rip firestorm
playing vanilla space marines has been a meme for a couple of editions now, can we stop being flat worse marines compared to chapter divergents? Time will tell (no) :D
I feel like GW needs to bring back gear points for armies. I’m not a fan of free war gear as it feels like some choices are auto haves for units. As for Primaris Marines they need more weapon variety, bring back the different Boltrifles and Plasma weapons.
I concur, though all my plauge marine units would jump 50 points, it would be a good change. New points are just old PL that no one liked.
If they want to still keep it rather simple they could have different costs for equiping the whole squad with specific weapons. Then you can still squeze in a squad with a lesser option into an army without having to do it on individual models.
@@vinterbjork4128 That’s how Intercessors and Hellblasters used to be.
they need to do something against "special" marines causing nerfs for vanillas
Bring back oath wound reroll. If you are a divergent chapter you only get reroll 1s. If you are codex compliante you get full wound reroll. And thats it.
@@mtrunkello or....just don't let divergent use codex compliant detachments
@@rightben59 why not? They share 80% of the rooster. Ultramarines have almost as many unique units as dark angels. That point doesnt make sense.
@@mtrunkello my recent example here would be "biker-wolves"
wanna play deathwing knights? must be dark angels detachment, death company? BA detachment it is, wolfriders? you know ...
compliant detachments lock you from using divergent units in short
divergent already have more units and detachments, would be just fair for compliant fans/players
edit. ofc a wolf/angel/templar can play with compliant detachments, but only with compliant units
@@CarnageCoon problem is that most divergent detachments are utter shit. Melee units need advance and charge. Also sm weapons are low strenght so they need +1 to wound so they all need the gladius detachment.
I dont know why you want to force divergent chapters to use only their own detachment other than pure jealousy.
Space marines still toward the bottom? Better hit them with more nerfs then.
Lmao. Scouts need a bit of a nerf, make them 75 points. Crap I’ve jinxed it now.
Aggressors going to 50 ppm because people are still using them in Gladius on occasion.
Please no haha. Aggressors and scouts going up again will break me.
I know what will help! Another primaris lieutenant.
@@jacksonbedgood2877 Tbh we need one that dual-wields pointy fingers. That ought to set things right.
IMO one of the biggest things for marines is they keep nerfing their best builds, but never buff anything else to replace it. Since the start of the edition marines have had desolation marines nerfed, nothing replaced them and they have been useless since. Then oath wound re-rolls went, nothing was done to compensate that. Then they went after the gladius build so aggressors, inceptors, infiltrators etc. all got points hikes, ALL of stayed the same points even though no one uses aggressors anymore and they hurt firestorm builds as well. Then the vanguard build got nerfed, now the Ironstorm build got nerfed and the Redeemer got nerfed. Consistently balance slate after balance slate they have nerfed marines best datasheets but never given them anything back. Even the Eliminators who went down to a usable 75pts as a cheap infiltrate unit, because of the double firing impulsor thing they got points hikes back up, now they fixed the ability to do that trip, did Eliminators go back down? No of course not still at 85pts. Captains got nerfed by the double strat change, did they go down? Nope.
Where are marine players supposed to go? Every good datasheet is pretty much overcosted or at least expensive, every detachment doing well had either it's best units or best enhancements nerfed (or both). The few minor points drops they have given marines, most have been ignored, 175pt termis still no one takes them as their rules are meh, Brutalis went down still didn't get used, assault intercessors only BA use them, bladeguard don't get used, most of the dreads get ignored, the speeders mostly get ignored, repulsor executioner people don't use, reivers still useless, tac marines still useless, suppressors a forgotten unit, infernus squads not used, outriders still meh so many datasheets, so little used. Probably the only points drop units they have given some play to is Jump Assault Intercessors and Scouts, can't see people rushing to use repulsors any time soon. Why are they not giving anvil siege force, first company etc. detachments some love? why not make some other phobos units more viable for use in vanguard? Why not make some of the other dreads and tanks cheaper to use in ironstorm? Why does Firestorm, that was never OP, keep taking hit after hit?
Buy new armies you newbie scrub.
GIVE ME MONEY MONEY MONEY
-gw
We pay for divergent chapters sins.
GW wants to self-destruct, and push players to other games, but 40k still keeps on going, no matter how they try to kill it…😅
To be fair I can handle most opponents on at least 50/50 odds. Usually a bit better while running guard or eldar. There's a local marine player I have yet to see loose a match at the mid board tables using phobos heavy army with tons of good shooting and movement tricks in vanguard detachment. I was wondering why he doesn't go with a chapter and he just doesn't want to paint his minis as a chapter. I did hear he lost a game vs world eaters recently. Other than that he's not lost yet that I know of.
*GW:* "New Meta and Missions Just Dropped"
*Tyranids:* "Cool New Restaurant Just Opened"
Space Marines at the bottom of the pile, surprise surprise. Damn you GW
Dark angels having so many mellee options but no access to advance and charge in any of their own detachments sucks, even a strat or enhancement would be clutch … happy to see them not below normal space marines at least again lol
I think that's why we see players defaulting to gladius now. Assault doctrine and what have you.
Blood Angels don't have advance and charge strats either or any characters to give it to a unit (aside gabriel seth who then means you can't take any other named BA characters).
@@tajj7youre right, but our knights have no guns at all, and just bolt pistols on our inner circle… but when your new codex comes out I really expect you to gain access somewhere in there to advance and charge, though obviously who knows with GW haha
Damn, looks like we got carry Space Marines Brothers. So far it definitely seems like the fastest infantry factions are doing well especially Anti-Infantry weapons due to new objectives. Guard getting stronger seemingly doesn't surprise me because being able to move is great.
Consider this, regarding the core codex/divergent chapter dilemma:
Assault Intercessors are really only good for killing chaff. A squad of five mulch 12 Cadians if they’re shooting and re-rolling wound rolls of 1. This is ALL they can kill effectively, as they only kill 3 Intercessors by comparison.
Now contrast that with Assault Intercessors in the Blood Angels detachment, and now they kill 7 Intercessors and 19 Cadians.
Why does that unit cost the same in Gladius AND Sons of Sanguinius?
This is real simple: stop needing the core codex; give more precise point values for what things cost.
I think the winrates will be more indicative in a few more weeks. People will finetune and iterate upon the first lists they took to these most recent tournaments and performance from different factions will shift and improve from there.
Indeed, Core-Codex Marines can still push 30% winrate and get more nerfs! 😉
The problem with nerfing everything is that eventually everything is so weak that nothing is fun to play. You cut out all of the fun rules and make everything so expensive that you just start playing a different game system instead.
*me knee deep in prepping my 60 neophytes
*surprised Pikachu face
Just pick up some Aberrants 10 of the big boys are worth 40 neophytes so much easier to paint :^)
Getting nerfed, not winning tournaments and getting beaten up like hotcakes in the latest trailer..
Space marines are in a really bad spot right now.
Love the channel, but couldn't help notice this is the 2nd time in as many weeks that you seem surprised Tsons players still aren't bringing Scarabs in their lists. They are an absolutely dreadful unit! Just to reiterate on a post I made early on in 10th, but Scarabs are:
-Terrible at playing the missions(slow & and only 1 OC per 38pts).
-Terrible at shooting(S4 and Ap-1 in an edition with inflated Toughness values and omnipresent Cover). Even compared to basic flamer Rubrics the Scarabs don't get extra Ap on 6's, ignore cover, or wound re-rolls. And flamer Rubrics are nearly half the price. And can provide a better shooting buff to attached characters. And have better Overwatch.
-Terrible in melee. A3 WS3+ S5 Ap-2 D2 at 38ppm is significantly worse than even a vanilla Bladeguard Veteran(who gets +1A and re-roll 1's To Hit for 8pts less per model). And people don't even really rate vanilla BGVs as good combat units in 10th. S5 is just such a killer in 10th -you so often end up wounding elite stuff(Gravis, Custodes, DG Termies, Canoptek Wraiths, Meganobz, Bloodcrushers, Paragon Warsuits, Wraithguard/blade, Eightbound/Exalted Eightbound, etc) on 5's and most vehicles/monsters(anything T10+) on 6's. I mean by Tzeentch's third eye, GK players call their Termies limp-wristed and their Termies have +1A, +1S, and [Lethal Hits] over Scarabs!
-Actively tank your Cabal Point score(generating 1 CP per 190-380pts, compared to say 3 or 6 CP for the same amount of points if you were to bring along 5 Rubrics+character(if comparing to 5 Scarabs) or 2x5 Rubrics+2x characters(if comparing to 10 Scarabs). Not to mention if you try to utilize their Deep Strike rule then that's at least 2 Turns that the Scarabs don't even generate their 1 CP since CP generation has an "on the table" clause. 😒
With all of that actively going against them, it's really no wonder competitive Tsons players leave their Terminators at home. The unit needs to either be significantly cheaper(I'm skeptical this would even work since we've seen GW adopt that approach with Blightlords and DG players still don't seem to be bringing them) or they need to get a profile upgrade a la what GW just recently did for the GK Dreadknights/Dark Angel melee units.
Tldr: the Scarabs need to be strong enough that including them in your list is somehow worth the potential -5 Cabal Points penalty that they impose when you include them over other options in the same points cost range, and they just aren't anywhere near that level currently. Which is a shame, because Terminators are cool. I would very much like to play with my Terminators sometime this edition! 😊
I would appreciate a big point gap between 5 man and 10 man scarabs. Something like 150 for 5, 360 for 10 would be okayish while we wait for the codex.
What make scarabs good is the wombo combo of stratagems and Magnus nearby. The resource cost in CP and Cabal points of this combo is only worth the effort on a big squad. A 5 man squad is just a unit of 5 standard terminator with all draw back you mentioned and not a single benefit. Recent MFMs make me believe!
No I think this is likely the accuracy of the Ork book at this time.
It's not just the changes to the book, although Green Tide and Bully Boys got smashed pretty hard. The general core rules / mission changes were abysmal for Orks. Stratagem wise, they abused tank shock on trucks, and advance / fallback grenades to do extra damage where the general book kinda fails (Orks are NOT a high damage army...). In addition, the general style of orks is early pressure, deny primary, and run up a score. With secret missions it's way easier to claw back to a 40 primary. Completely acceptable score in a tight / hard fought game.
Subtly too, when a rhino chassis (or rough equivalent) cannot be reasonable dealt with by most detachments in the shooting phase, Orks just get presented with bad game states that require them to massively outplay or out luck their opponent.
In addition, even if War Horde is the good one, people are sick of playing index hammer. The point of the book is to play with cool new stuff and you're left playing a detachment that's been played for a year with a rather linear playstyle (that also DOESN'T help shooting units).
It's a dumpster fire. And points won't address the issue (although there a couple examples like Kommandos / deff dreads where they are horribly overcosted). Orks have plenty of stuff, it just doesn't do enough.
We need more Ork players like you who speak the truth
Everyone just defaults to 'warhorde good '
Adding insult to the injury is the ruling made by GW on the Warbosss in trukk when calling Waaagh.
They make 'aneffort' to write words in Orks FAQ, but can't afford to say "oups, we fucked up, of course your warboss is angry even when embarked".
Or it is literally a week or so after the dataslate, where all Ork players have basically been relying on 18 broken meganobz in bullyboz or hordes of boyz and haven't really worked out an alternative way of playing yet. Considering as well it seems that early Pariah nexus is favouring melee pressure armies quite a lot (Blood Angels, World Eaters, CSM, all doing decently) with both terrains, deployments and missions being more favourable to that (some of the new deployments and GW terrain layouts have armies 12" apart, and Orks are literally a faction who has access to army wide advance and charge, plus cheap transpots), it wouldn't surprise that those two things together and orks will be doing fine again in a month or so.
@@Noalakhow hard would it be for them to say "change the warboss line to say DURING a waaagh..."
@@tajj7 dumb comment , most factions spam 1 datasheet when we can like death wing knights. Tau suits , tanks ,etc you're just soft
Also the meta not even adjusting to horde because everyone wants to play big elite bricks of do nothing. Got salty that Orks could play the mission better
Tell me you suck without telling me you suck at 40k
In order to fix the Space Marines issue, just give the core codex marines either full wound rerolls on Oath targets on top of reroll hits. And if that's too busted, at least reroll wounds of 1
Or give hit re-roll on 2 targets, or re-roll 1s on all hits all the time.
Honestly as a Blood Angels player I'd just prefer a different army rule and let vanilla marines keep their oath. But IMO what they should do is if you run the various detachments as say Raven Guard, so the Vanguard detachment should give more buffs to Raven Guard, gladius to ultramarines, firestorm to salamanders etc. So something like if you run that particular detachment and have a raven guard special unit (which is basically Shrike) thus preventing you from using any ultramarine character or dark angels unit, you should get extra buffs.
Maybe, when 40th edition arrives, Vulkan can return and give us Salamander players the firestorm codex we deserve... One can only dream...
If GW was actually interested in keeping the game balanced, they would actually play test their changes before putting them out and balance the detachments within a codex against each other instead of the same meta builds in each army. Reavers have been bad for 2 editions now with no break.
Reivers and they've been bad for 3 editions.
Whats a reiver?
@@cgb1995One of the space marine phobos armoured units
It's not an accident that the person responsible for game Balance won a tournament this week ... They clearly do some testing for practice if nothing else 😂
@@cgb1995 They're meant to be shock troops with a morale effect and grappling hooks that give them the old fly rule. Problem is they simply don't do enough damage to be meaningfull.
Taken in a vacuum SM are absolutely not bad. The problem is they are just worse than divergent space marines that can use their stuff plus’s other stuff. Tge solution? Stop divergents from being able to use SM detachments and un nerf a few of those (careful with Ironstorm though!)
Pleasantly surprised to see Drukhari being near the top. I kinda thought they’d drop a tiny bit with secondaries not being worth as much as before.
a lot of rules now benefit battleline and they rely on a lot of wyches and kabalites to take objectives and trade so I'm not surprised. also the floating vehicles on circular bases are being played with the new pivot rules in a way that imo is cheesy as hell so that's helping them too
@@wyatt864 Ah, the dark elves learned to drift, that's their secret.
i blame Skari, hes responsible for 90% of our win rate lol
@@wyatt864 Yes, you can save 2" with pivoting boats, but in the end they are just drukhari boats.
Yeah, I guess Skari singlehandedly lifts Drukhari up to those lofty heights. They are still one of the lesser played factions and the guy manages to win everything with literally every kind of list, even Razorwing Jets, which are arguably terrible.
Thanks for the constant stream of amazing content dude. Your upload schedule is nuts esp with the really good accuracy with your rates. Keep it up man!
We’re entering a Drukhari sweep baby that’s what I love to see.
Can't believe the Custodes sister detachment, which everyone including me thought was just a meme, actually won a tournament!
tbf barely 1k points were sos, there were 2 caladius and canis rex (still crazy to win with that detachment tho)
Haha marines dropped to 40 😆😅 what a surprise. Those nerfs were def necessary Gdubs
Let’s go! Dark Eldar kicking arse once again.
GW needs to get CZcamsrs like auspex and play on tabletop to play test these codex’s
IG are feeling pretty savage on the table. My most recent game against Votann was very successful. Lethals are great and double Dorn is slick.
Good to hear it man. I swapped out my artillery for more Scions and tanks and it seems to also be a more fun/active playstyle as well compared to the old artillery parking lots.
Space Marines just dying atm, good lord
We have been hurting for awhile now, but it's just getting worse each balance patch
The further in the hole we get the more they will have to drastically do smth, ie Nids and Ad Mech
@@swogg4586 That's been my hope, but they can't buff us without also buffing divergent chapters, unlike other factions. Unless they finally recognize the core issue and only give buffs to codex compliant chapters.
@@AnotherViewBot Divergent Chapters absolutely *need* to be locked out of the Codex detachments and restricted to just the basic Gladius
I also wouldn't be against restricting access to some units where it makes sense, ie: Black Templars cannot take Librarians, Devastators, Centurions, Whirldwinds...
Otherwise, Divergent Chapters just become 'Space Marines++'
@AnotherViewBot Totally agree, they need to give core SM a buff only in one way or another
Don't let divergent chapters use unique units in codex detachments. Buff oath to allow reroll wounds or hits. Make firestorm crappier strats better. Stormlance too. Anvil gets counts as remain stationary if moved equal to or less than M, 1st company gets reroll hits and wounds on oath target all game for 1st company units (termies, bladeguard, van/sternguard, land raiders, and maybe captain units?
That would be some really nice fixed! Loving the Anvil idea.
What? marines aren't doing well? Why not get rid of more options and make more Hyper focused units? maybe that will make them better? Oh wait that's the god dam issue in the first place.
Space Marines were already bad, got crippling nerfs and are now, shockingly, terrible. 🙄
Fix for playing Vanilla marines, give each of the 'themed' detachments extra buffs if you play as the correct chapter for it. I.e Raven Guard in Vanguard, you get extra buffs, Ultramarine in Gladius, extra buffs, Salamanders in Firestorm extra buffs. So you'd have to play a character from that chapter (which in some cases might be one, like Shrike for Raven Guard) which then excludes you from other marine units (so no BA units etc.) but then you get extra buffs when playing that detachment. I mean Anvil will probably still be crap, but you might then see vanilla gladius, vanguard, and firestorm do better. Also generally those worse detachments in the marine book need some rules changes, like anvil and first company, plus storm lance needs to apply to more than just mounted or literally 3 datasheets in the whole marine codex.
A change for Oath of Moment could be making it so that it affects all objectives on the board within 6" of the objective, rather than targeting a single unit a turn. You lose the single target damage but gain blanket buffs for objective holders. Maybe add an additional buff for Oath of Moment with this change, add a defensive buff for being on objectives as well.
0:57 Auspex, I believe the kids call it clickbait
Ah that term was very popular in the 3rd millennium.
Keep up the good work, always so much content on your channel, always up to date
Other divergent chapters doing well: torches and pitchforks.
BA doing well: balance at top 'pretty great'.
👌
Honestly I'm fine with BA doing well because they got there by playing like BA. With BT it was basically just doing Ironstorm better than codex marines.
According to the stats Mordian Glory went over on Monday, BT players have migrated away from Ironstorm to Righteous Crusaders so these results should reflect that, though he showed BT down at 44% I believe rather than the 47% shown here. Hopefully the tournament chuds chasing the meta move on to something else.
My personal annoyance here stems from the fact that when BT were in the 55% win rate neighborhood using a codex detachment we had 'Helbrecht + Sword Brethren do Whaaaaat?!' sky-is-falling reactions stirring it up and they took nerfs to Templar units before Ironstorm was even looked at.
Regardless of what detachment they are using 55% is 55%. If this isn't just a first weekend anomaly will what's good for the 55% win rate goose be good for the 55% win rate gander, or is balance going to still be 'great'?
My gut tells me the chuds will migrate to overwhelming with jump pack intercessors and VVs with BA leaders if Art of War is calling it out as really strong. Time will tell if that is true and if we see the same click bait pot stirring should it be true.
From what I understand CSM were not "winning a lot of tournaments". They won a few, out of what was a list of some 15-16 different "codexes" that were winning (Orks winning the most by numbers at the time by far) and those CSM lists that did actually win all seemed to do so for a very brief period of time, spamming 20-30 Warp Talons... GW could have nerfed the War Talons a bit for sure (no denying that), but then let the CSM meta get a bit of time to develop before nerfing pretty much every unit that people started to take. Nerfing Havocs again? I mean, what the actual f...???
They basically hit every unit in a radiers list. But that killed the whole army.
Happy independence day form Ireland
People liked the ork codex right so seeing them almost the same level as genestealers is funny with how people didn't like they codex
Well, GW Made Most of what people liked about the Ork Codex much worse, almost as much as they nerfed the GSC Codex 😅
Really surprised GSC is that high tbh. I expect that to drop down to around 35% after some more data.
Auspex on that grind
It would be cool if GW gave SM a chapter master, you choose a unique enchantment and gave him more war gear or something like that...
🤔🤷♂
Nah, we need changes to the core codex marines, not another character
@@AnotherViewBot yeah you might be right, but just think it wouldnt be so cool if you can play with your CM from your own custom SM? I think would be very cool 😎
Drukhari being strong is pretty nice. Space Marines still desperately need a buff but it's nice to see most armies hanging around the middle. Feels balanced.
Really torn between the white and black dices. The white ones are what I always imagined Auspex dice would look like, but those black ones are all kinds of sexy 😍
The thing genestealers have to work with is the fact they can't be played easily, to play genestealers you have to act the part of a cult mastermind, and constantly be planning like 5 different things for each unit
I'm curious with Space Wolves taking Champions of Russ which of them are they taking as their free options? Like if I had to guess it would be either the Feel No Pains or OC buff just for how difficult it is compared to the others.
I believe you can't take OC for free. It is probably the first one you want to unlock.
Any buff to movement is very valuable in this Mission Pack. It also helps getting your characters into melee and unlock additional ones.
On codex vs divergent marines, I honestly think divergents should have much more limited access to codex datasheets, and be restricted to maybe two codex detachments at most (Gladius + 1 lore relevant other).
And codex armies get a buff to Oath, maybe just reroll 1’s to wound?
Thinking back to i think 8th when Space Marines kept getting buffs and new units with more buffs, it feels surreal seeing Marines just get hammered with nerfs.
Chaos space marines got a hit becaise a few sweaty nerds did well with renegade raiders. Now I'm in a worse spot with dread talons than i already was though I think pariah nexus might be a weird buff do to how actions work now
Yeah, the 3% below the 50% threshold for CSM makes perfect sense. That's basically how over-nerfed they were in the update. It's not terrible, but it WAS too much.
Still 10% better than loyalists…😅
Literally instantly bought dice as soon as I heard you say it lol
Codex Space marines can be fixed but it needs some specific targeting. Now you can't just use points on the generic units, because all the divergent chapters get them too. If you want to make them better though what you can do is three things. First, buff the characters that cannot be taken in the divergent ones. Guiliman, Tor Garadon, Shrike ect. Stronger buffs or base gear, or even just points though I'd hesitate to only do points there. Second, you can adjust their sub-factions. They've already got six-you could rework say half of those to not be take-able if you have any divergent units in them, then buff those only stock marine detachments. And third, if you had to, you could lock down more units to not be takeable in the non divergent chapters, though I'd be iffy about this one given it might mess up people's lists.
Ahhhhh The Dark Kin
Guessing we’re waiting 6 months for any kind of change to orks to make them even middling to good if anything, nice codex GW shame the index the only usable option was f you’re not throwing on purpose
Hopefully 3 months, not a great feeling until then though sadly
I will continue to preach the belief that SM can only start to be made better once they cut off all other Divergent chapters from using their detachments.
Litteraly how? That wouldent make the base marines better, it would just make the others worse
@@user-be2nt8bi9j That's why I said 'start'. If other armies had to only use detachments that were in their own codex, they could be easier to balance instead of having to account for 5 different armies being able to take the same detachment.
@@LordOfD3stro my brother in guilliman just buy azrael or dante and cut it off lol
@@mtrunkello what do you mean?
@@LordOfD3stro if you think the divergent chapters are so much better just buy literally 1 model and you can use their detachment and rules for your entire sm army. Divergent chapters had to do the same only with much more money on the line. There is literally no reason for you to punish yourself and play an inferior army for years until gw adresses the issue because they wont. They want to sell models.
I have my first Tyranid game tomorrow, with the new changes. I m stll not sure if the Neuro Tyrants Neuroloid, attached to a non Synapse units hand out the additional -1 to the Battleshock test during Shadows in the Warp. If anyone has a clue, i´d like to know the answer, as i m sure it´ll come up.
No they don't. Their rule makes the target unit count as being in range of Synapse, Not making them Synapse creatures themselves.
Using the same keyword for both Units that can benefit and those that have the Aura is one of the worst possible application of Keywords ever..
@@Errtuabyss Cheers, i thought so too.
So here's an idea for vanilla Marines that might help them a bit- give them an extra rule, something along the lines of 'Adherent to the Codex', which gives them a bonus CP at the top of the battle round. The idea there being that sticking rigidly to the Codex Astartes has tactical benefits that the divergent Chapters can't match. With the recent changes to 'free' strats it could be quite impactful, and the fact that it'd need an exception to the usual CP gaining limits would just help cement the Marines place as GW's favourite special boys.
shoutout to den of fools, GREAT channel!
Blood angels 55?
Oh..
Gw would delete death company flexbility. we are f8cked xDDD
Yep
*Looks at my shelf with 40 death company, each with a wildly different loadout*. "S*********t"
I’m doing a crusade campaign rn with my group of 6 and so far my admech are winning 4-0 :)
Honestly that's a pretty good spread if you ignore vanilla space marines, but that's not exactly a small portion of the playerbase. The divergent chapters seem to be doing fine, so it's just the core codex that's struggling. Fully agree with Auspex that it looks like there needs to be some actual incentive to play core codex marines.
I wouldn’t say that space wolves are doing great since they can’t play their own detachment and are dependent on a detachment from the marine codex and using a single unit type to win. If GW decides to let vehicles be able to fall back and shoot and freely use and auto pass desperate break out tests, that tactic has limited viability.
@@Jason-wh7inthat's not entirely true, wolf jail lists are moving away from stormlance to champions of russ
5 straight wins with deathwing detachment. I was getting beat badly before the update now I'm crushing
Unending swarm really is terrible nerf. They were the iconic feature... I loved playing 3-4 units hormagaunts or termagaunts swarming the foe. They werent very good. But iconic and thematic.
There were options to controlling it that GW could have exercised but instead they went with the most unimaginative way because thinking is hard and they're inherently lazy game designers.
A 9-10% jump for Deathwatch? I know it's only one weekend of data, but that's a good jump up! It would also be very interesting to see what detachment is being used, and the army list.
As a Salamanders + Orks player I'm certainly ecstatic.
As soon as I saw the admech changes I was happy but new it wasn’t enough, they really need to be a semi elite army with rules to show it and please let the mars robots be good again they need it
They should hire an actual mathematician to balance these things.
😂 whats anyone gonna do against 12 tanks? Thank GW for that push on the Guard 🎉
They push us Guard players away from artillery and lots of infantry to using lots of armour. It wasn't what we asked for but I suppose it isn't anything for us to complain about either.
I'm not surprised with the huge drop of orks. The codex in my opinion was poorly designed with how hyper focused the detachments were on a very small amount of units. One unit gets nerfed and you have nothing to pivot to because you just don't have any flexibility in the detachments. Even the war hordes detachments gives no shooting support and it's supposed to be your generalist option.
I find it interesting you have never mentioned big knights doing actions while shooting, did you forget that in the mission pack?
40k Messiah coming in hot!!
Admech wise, i have to say data-psalm with fun police (fulgurites) is great with charge from dunerider. XD
I think Fulgurites looks like Yakuza then police...🙈
@@The_Penguin_8964 they hit people with fun sticks ;)
I guess GW realizes that people buy marines no matter how bad the win rate is... so they're trying to incentivice people to buy other armies.
Meganobz got nerfed a bit too hard. They didn't need both.
And SM just aren't easy to balance because divergent chapters have way too many incentives over core codex builds.
Now is Admech's time to shine! Hoping for some improved win-rate for my toaster cyborgs
I know this is an early look but I wouldn't have guessed that tyranids and imperial guard were both above the 50% mark.
it feels like, most of it is like upside down from January, which fells stupid, not a good job if it was like that, slight nerfing/buffing would be better than always the nerfhammer and then watch what happens
Space Marines are kinda cool because of the play style variety. Also a nightmare because of the same reason
Just give core SM wound rerolls on oath target again lol
I Mist say how much I enjoy GW nerfing the good units for necrons repeatedly, without buffing anything to give different options. I don't want to run C'tan and Wraiths, there just isn't anything else that is legitimately competitive.
GW has this problem with several factions where they're about one way to run your list and then GW seems to think that one way is too powerful and nerf it. They fail to see their lack of creative design within army lists is the root of the problem and not players abusing the army design.
So buying dice. Its the least we can all do for your service and they’re actually a solid deal
What about allowing two detachments for codex space marines?
Why would GW replace meganobz with death wing knights in the meta lol
Because they already sold all the meganobz kits that they were going to sell.
I gotta hand it to 'em, they actually did get rid of cheese for the 'Nids and gave us some fresh meat instead!
As a relatively new player, seeing Blood angels in the top tier for the first time since i started playing is so bittersweet, i get this anxious feeling that GW will "balance" us to the ground ASAP 🤔
It'll probably happen :)
@@ba_commander Ah,it's OK John, i trust that you will lead us to more GT wins on the bikes of your Outriders!
CZcams for the CZcams gods
DG were a 45% last I checked. A bit hard to call point reductions to bad units that are never taken because of bad abilities compensation. It's so hard to get excited about playing them in 10th.
I really enjoyed thier identity in 9th and late 8th but that’s gone now and we’re left with no anti tank, the slowest terminators for an extra t, and our best combo to buff our pbcs just got basically removed.
I've shelved my DG for the time hopefully only until the codex releases. Some sort of change to PBCs, either buff up their raw damage or add more shots to the mortar D6+6 perhaps. Blightlords get a rework, no reason to run them over deathshroud. Would love to see them become an anvil unit, give them 2 OC and a 6+ FNP that goes to a 5+ while they are controlling an objective. Some actual rules changes to other characters, currently we don't have any sort of warpsmith variants so all of our nifty daemon engines have zero support. Pivot some of the abilities that direction.
Its really going to come down to the codex, they did a good job when they changed mega-nobz in their codex so hopefully they're aware of DGs struggling units.
@@cgb1995 I wouldn't get your hopes up honestly. It's sad to say but we will likely get 4 bare bones detachments, no major changes, get -1 weapon skill changed to -1 one to hit, Blight lords might get a small buff like +1 OC because it's easy for them to do, most characters that are trash will still be trash and no durability buffs army wide. And for are new model they will just rerelease the LOC model that you have to buy second hand right now. Maybe 11th edition will be better and we will get are tough identity back.
I love my nid buffs, the people saying that they are op are hard copeing, they definitely got better, but op is too much of a stretch the change is just a lot more pronounced since the killing power was so bad, I say nids will probably settle around 48%. Also my imperial fists weep for the space marines and anvil siege force.
Tyranids are my second army but I got a game in last weekend against Eldar that had been beating me before. I had a resounding victory that was more of a result of using a different unit than the recent changes. Sometimes just changing up your army list can do a lot more than mechanics that don't always benefit you.
you are joking about the win rates of sisters they are beyond busted