Garret my brother from another mother, or should I say possibly my son. This is a subject near and dear to my heart, and I could right an entire book just to this subject video alone. I feel in love with this lifestyle in 1972. I never looked back it's hard for me to type everything now and after a stroke have often thought I typed words that ultimately wasn't leaving some sentences incomprehensible. Worse it impaired my vision so I can't even prof read my own words. Let's start with that I 90.1 percent agree with you. The other 8.9 I will discuss when or if we communicate as I best can. Bertha I think by now you know what she means to me, but also by now know she isn't my first. When Lyman great plains rifle came into my view finder I was put on my list along with a browning introduction to a short lived Hawkin. In the last year I have acquired a .50 caliber flintlock great plains manufactured in the late 80's. Immediately ordered a replacement barrel from log cabin shop in the 1 n 60" twist of .54 caliber. Yes I would like to have a hunters rifle twist barrel for it , but it is not a priority. I have spent the extra$ to obtain the pedersoli jaeger flintlock that oddly enough comes with a not so friendly 1 n27" twist. I however lay the blame at the feet of what became an American value. Greed. Greed from shameless and even false propaganda from manufacturers claiming the virtues of a lazer accurate system beyond reality. Greedy states seeing orange clad over charged licenses sales and tourist dollars. Brought in, with wildlife management be damn. Outfitters charging tens of thousands of dollars to harvest a trophy in two days so we can get in the next group. And I go on forever on that line a muzzleloader season should have never be regulated by these laws. A muzzleloader season be traditional equipment, with traditional clothing in traditional ways not a cash out lane at kroger's mentality. Think about it most states have 1- 2 month long archery seasons in camouflage with game changing equipment yet we cant set a week or two for buckskin clad traditionalist a safe time with a passion so important to where it all came from. Garrett technically you have a gold mine. Let me explain myself. I have long had the desire to obtain 30,000- 50,000 acres run down working ranch solely with one goal in mind. The ultimate anti dude ranch, dude ranch. A place that the only visible que at the entrance is a sign reading. WELCOME TO 1823. Lots of details to numerous to mention here but a hunting limited to only traditional archers and buckskin clad smokepole enthusiasts where a person can experience a fresh harvested hump rib roasted over the open fire as it should be. No shooting fray a truck just straight up honest earned accomplishment with a fee is a portion of the bounty at the evening campfire meal. This is what would have keep tradition alive is living the tradition. Wearing orange vest hats Muck boots on a Yamaha UTV with a side lock is like going to a cowboy action shoot wearing a complete thoroughbred jockey racing outfit with a quirt strapping on a colt belt rig. Hope this all makes sense
yee haw. this is 100% the best comment i have ever read i am so sick of this doctor and lawyers only money game that is masquerading as muzzleloader season. those people wouldnt know a moccasin from a capote if there lives depended on it. you my captain are very wise
THANK YOU for saying that in line rifles have no place in black powder primitive firearms seasons! The whole idea behind black powder seasons was to give the hunter the opportunity to experience hunting the way our great grandfathers did, using the firearms they used, not scoped, electrically ignited, pellet fed, conical bullet shooting in lines.
Amen. In Utah they moved the muzzleloader season before rifle season instead of in the middle.of the rut in the winter. 50 percent of hunters went out and bought inlines. I was shooting my flitlock next to a guy shooting out to 200 yards with his scoped inline... And he was shooting smokeless powder..
I also agree on that. Here in Oregon where I live they do have certain rules for muzzleloading only hunts. No scopes, only iron sights, only loose powder, open ignition, no 209 shotgun primers, no fiber optic sights and so on and it should be that way to keep muzzleloading only hunts primative.
@@2010GT500 It literally does though. There is ZERO handicap with a modern inline front stuffer in comparison to a cartridge rifle with the exception of realistically being limited to one shot on your deer before it runs. And most often if you shoot and miss even with a metallic cartridge repeater the deer doesn't give you an opportunity for a second shot, even with an automatic. Point being is that muzzleloader season was invented for the same reason as bow season. To handicap. To offer a PRIMITIVE experience. To use TRADITIONAL weapons. NOT to be taken advantage of with technicalities in order to get an unfair advantage on the next guy using a common modern rifle. Call us Fudds all you like, but when all of us "Fudds" have gone on to the happy hunting grounds in the sky YOU and your generation will see the RIGHT to hunt DIE with us. At that point enjoy your gate-kept, neo noble, expensive pastime, if you can afford to.
I 100% agree with keeping hunting with muzzleloaders traditional. When I used to hunt back 20 years ago, all my friends and their fathers used inlines. I never cared for that. So I always went along with my Lyman Great Plains flintlock that I put together from a kit myself. And now here in NJ we’ve got guys running around the woods with crossbows, thinking they’re big time bow-hunters
I have to disagree. I started on inlines and eventually went into the traditional route. I think inlines are a great starting point for beginners as well as pushing the limits of BP.
I have 2 brothers that bought inlines to go muzzle loading hunting. For the first time just the 3 of us in North Missouri. They sighted their 50. Cal.s in. We hunted, I dropped a doe. It was at 150 yards out. Long story short. They haven't used them since. Take care and keep on the trail. TT
Matt Liptak: WHERE ARE YOU IN NJ?!! I live in Woodbridge. Been a buckskinner, off and on, since the late 70's.. Haven't fired my flintlock in AGES, there being NO PLACE to do so anywhere LESS than two hours drive away! I would LOVE to be able to get together with other followers of our sport(obsession?). BTW, I've been doing leatherwork, as a hobby, for about 50 years, and made all my buckskinning gear(except for firearms, at which I have NO talent whatever) myself, and am still quite willing to do custom work if someone wants it
I agree with you100%. I wouldn't have an inline ML rifle if you gave me one. What they are is nothing but the "Easy Button" for those who couldn't care less about traditional arms. Sad days ahead for us old school ML folks.
well like isaid the good news is kibler is killing it with his kits they are great guns. but most people arnt going to want to build there first muzzleloader
Agree totally with you on traditional side locks for muzzle loading season. Unfortunately muzzle loading in West Virginia means putting a 12 year old on a stand watching a corn feeder with inline scoped "muzzle loader".
I agree with you 100%. Whenever I would fill out a Ks deer survey, I would let them know of my dislike for allowing the use of inlines during Muzzleloader season.
This is Ethan hey Garrett don't forget not only are they smokeless inline "muzzleloaders" some of them are not even really muzzleloaders anymore cuz they load from the breach
I’m a seventy two old man who has been wheelchair bound for approximately four years. Hunting was my favorite past time. I haven’t hunted since I was injured. I have an old CVA in-line that I would use during muzzleloading season. I have been bored this winter so I bought a Traditions Kentucky kit to see if I’d like it. Well, I’ve been bitten by the bug and now will try my hand at building a more complex kit. At the church I attend I’ve met one of our members who was a gunsmith at Williamsburg and is willing to help me if I run into trouble. Thanks for the video!
I'm 72 years old myself and I have a traditions 50 caliber Hawken, kind of, it's not just like a Hawken but it looks like a Hawken. It's a double set trigger and I absolutely love it. It's a little hard for me to shoot off hand because of my muscle atrophy but I can prop that baby up and shoot great. Stick with it old man and I can say that because I am too.
I'm sorry to hear all about this. I agree with you about Pedersoli, too. I was shocked at the price for their Kentucky rifles when you look at what you get vs. what you could have for a little more (or a little less) money.
I totally agree with you. Over the past 35 years I've collected the front staffers I've always wanted. I still call it muzzle loading season. Even though they now call it alternative weapons season. Most of all. I enjoy muzzle loading and will use my GPR. For the rest of my days. Thanks for the information. Take care and keep on the trail. TT
The sad part of all this is. When I first got bit by the blackpowder rendezvous bug. My first layman rifle cost 200 dollars and you could get enough power and balls and caps 100 rounds for 8.00 to 10.00. I feel sorry for those guys that have taken up the sport now. Because it's not going to get any cheaper. If you're going to get a good quality firearm. Take care and keep to the trail. T.T.
The problem is a a $1300 Hawken kit isn't going to introduce any new shooters to the experience of traditional muzzleloaders. At best it will add some additional used sidelocks on GunBroker.
Kibler makes a "kit "gun. And charges handmade prices. They do not do anything. It's a put together gun. They do not sell or make a handmade gun. People have gone crazy saying how great "Kibler rifles are"" and they are no different than CVA or any other Black Powder Kit maker. A kit gun is a kit gun. Kibler isn't a Gun or Rifle manufactory maker. They sell a rifle ""YOU"" have to make right. Get so tired of all the Bullshyte....!!! Peace.
Me gusta la avancarga porque no necesitas ir a comprar nada para hacer tus cartuchos ,fulminantes, balas o perdigones para cazar te los puedes fabricar tu mismo en casa Son una buena alternativa de supervivencia . Cuando por diversas razones en estos tiempos que vivimos No te quieran vender municiones . Saludos desde Santiago de Chile Souht America 🇨🇱🇨🇱🇨🇱👍👍👍
You can still get the same exact rifle as the older Investarms Lymen Great Plains Rifle. The Investarms Gemmer Hawken is the same exact rifle as the Lymen & is still in production. I have 3 Thompson Center Hawken & Renegades in 50 & 54, I also have a new in box Pedersoli Traditional Hawken Target 50, a unfired CVA Hawken Supreme 54 with the chrome lined bore, & a CVA Mountain Rifle 50. My next muzzleloader will be either a slightly used Lymen Great Plains Rifle 54, or a brand new Investarms Gemmer Hawken 54.
Spot on Black powder brother, I hunt with a lyman GPR, I have a roundball and a conical barrel, I started muzzleloading in the mid 70s when I built a CVA mountain rifle kit, I have a 45,& a 50 cal with what I have been told were douglas barrels, both shot very well, and a later model 54 with a Spanish barrel, also very accurate, but the GPR is my go to for deer hunting, I love it, I also have a couple of ML shotguns both double and a single that I made, a couple of 36 cal squirrel rifles, traditions 32 cricket, and a 44 cal investarms, I may have another one or two, I, my brother, son and nephew all hunt with side hamm ers including flinters, we are probably in the 1% club here in Oklahoma! inlines, with scopes , synthetic stocks, are the new norms, crossbows are taking over the archery market, I think its all about selling more deer tags, and the easier it is the better!
My first black powder rifle was the Lyman Stainless Steel Deer Stalker Percussion 50 cal that I bought around 15 years ago. I still have it and it’s a amazing rifle that I love. Accurate and since I’m a Florida native, lifelong resident and have only hunted in Florida since I was 6 years old . It’s shorter barrel is perfect for hunting our terrain which is often very thick brush that you hunt by walking on narrow game trails that often lead to a patch network of small to medium sized openings. Spinning around a long barrel rifle just isn’t practical for the terrain I hunt where most shots I take or less then 50 yards . I’m sure there is people who use them to hunt in Florida where they have terrain to make long shots. I’m just speaking for myself and where an how I hunt . For what I do the Deer Stalker is perfect
i agree with you that the BP season should be for traditional rifles and pistols. I bought a break top to see if i could get better accuracy, not shot the same except i needed more powder for expansion bullets to work, 90 gr instead of 80 gr to get the bullet to seal.
Here in ontario we have a shotgun season, back in the 70’s a lot of us shot Thompson center sidelocks,or the smoothbore shotguns,now the savage 220 rules with a scope and capable of hitting a coffee cup at 200+ yards With a rifled barrel and sabots!! Deer have no chance. Miss the old days. Good vid 👍
I started with a Traditions flintlock. My next gun was a Traditions percussion long rifle. From there I purchased a Lyman's Great Plains flintlock and a Connecticut Valley Arms percussion. In my area there are no black powder clubs so I shoot at a rifle range. I am the only traditional black powder shooter out of 250 plus members. Almost half of those shooting modern muzzle loaders scoped up don't shoot them because they are too expensive to shoot, however they take one or two shots prior to the black powder deer season to insure they are still on target at 200 yards. Has anyone noticed the average age at a Rendezvous event? Enough said. In today's instant gratification society I doubt that traditional side lock guns will eventually be phased out.
I got a lyman GPR for about $250 back in 2012. Was a kit build from a gentleman who had passed and his wife wanted it to go to someone who would appreciate it. Shot that rifle almost every day for a good year. Still my favorite to take out hunting. Blows my mind how much these things are going for now.
I totally agree with you 100 % with regards to the new muzzle loaders on the market. I would never purchase a modern muzzle loader. It is counterintuitive to the tradition. But really, history is not being taught to our youth. You may be preaching to the congregation. I got into the black powder guns about three years ago. The flintlocks are becoming my favorite. But I'm old. I think each person that has embraced the old ways of the muzzle loaders needs to take one young person under their wing to at least attempt to garner interest in black powder shooting. Otherwise, this part of history will vanish.
This hits home. I remember my grandfather using a muzzloading shotgun for hunting quail and dove and I've been wanting to get into a side by side muzzloading shotgun but like you said they demand a high price.
Luckily here in Idaho we still have a true black powder season for elk. Flintlock or side percussion cap only. Btw, I have an older Lyman Great Plains rifle with the slow twist and left hand in .54 caliber. Take several deer during the regular rifle season.
I think the issue killing off sidelocks is newer shooters don't know how to use iron sights or consider them too much trouble. Most deer down here are taken at 75yds or less, but nobody uses irons or peeps. Variables 3-9 or up on just about every rifle. Even lever guns come from the factory with rails. The future is bleak.
I love my kibler colonial flintlock in 58 caliber. Next on my list is a woodsrunner, and they made it sound like a Hawkins rifle is on their short list as well a fowler. I started with a cva kit myself, then a lyman great plains rifle in 54 . I agree completely
My first muzzleloaders were CVA Mountain pistol and rifle. This was the late 70’s and both were kits I built. A few years back I built a Traditions Kentucky rifle kit. I worked over the stock so it was more historically accurate. It’s accurate but the length of pull is only 12.5” and the trigger is atrocious! I completely agree with your opinion on traditional hunting seasons!
I have a traditions sidelock and an old cva inline. I love the sidelock and shoot it a couple of sessions a month but hardly shoot the inline anymore. I agree with you Garrett about restricting muzzleloading seasons to traditional arms and hate to see these companies getting out of the business.
I own 2 inline muzzleloaders use to hunt a lot with them. Then I ordered a LYMAN great plains kit in 54. I built it and was amazed how much fun it was and how accurate it was. Well lets just say I have 24 side locks and flint locks now. I own a CVA Kentucky rifle in 45 with a slow twist very accurate gun. Thompson center Hawken in 50 and 45 well you get the point. Where I hunt their is a older guy in his 70s that hunts muzzle-loader and gun season with his Thompson center Hawken in 45 he said why buy a rifle when I got all I need right here. I now do the same both seasons with my 54 great Plains.
I have a 30-30 and a .270 which I hardly ever use anymore. My El cheapo .50 CVA Mountain rifle from 1979 ($79 on clearance) outshoots my .50 TC Hawken ($200, used), and is lighter to lug around, so that's my field partner for both seasons these days. Just learned recently that the CVA is more authentic to the original Hawken than the T/C. BAN INLINES FROM ML SEASON!
It's a shame Lyman isn't making the gpr any longer. It really is a great gun. I was hoping to get a few more then the one I have but I am out of luck. I feel the same way about the tc guns (even some of their modern rifles). I do love these guns and as you said it was where most folks start. I see little reason to go further wither. The guns are so good that they will serve for generations with proper care. I am planning on a few more muzzleloaders such as a long gun and a fowler but I also want a couple more cap locks with the shorter stocks. Some are easy enough but the cap lock guns have become more challenging with the disappearance of so many players in the game
I watched your video and it sent me back about 40 years ago when I was a young man and into cap and ball shooting. I still own a Lyman's plains rifle and a Johnathan Browning mountain rifle in 50 cal. I dug them out and dusted them off for a trip down memory lane. I can't believe that they increased that much in value...I figured they wouldn't be worth much now with all the fuss about in line rifles!
I use entry level Kits, Investarms, Did three, first was a target rifle with Lyman Target Sights. I bought the Last LH Investarms .50 Flintlock. I am carving up the stock now to get behind the sights. Like a shotgun Butt but i am carving a dish for my face in the cheek piiece.
There aren't enough weeks in the fall to have FOUR deer seasons. The calendar is already crowded as it is. Kick the inlines out of muzzle loader season. If they want modern amenities, they can hunt in regular rifle season. Call it "Master Class" and charge a premium for the license.
I've thought before , we need a special sidelock season . Even cut the black powder season in half . Half season modern BP half season primitive BP .......
Alot of barriers are killing off traditional muzzleloading, the scarcity and cost of No.11 percussion caps, the difficulty of sourcing black powder locally and even by shipment, and lastly the increased cost of the gun itself.
Black powder scarcity is not because of in lines. It's because by law black powder is an explosive or hazardous material. Their are sites that sell it but you have to pay a hazardous shipping fee.
It's mostly due to the age of traditional hunters and fans. The rendevouzs have really dried up. We're dying off and just getting too old to hunt with the traditional guns anymore. It takes work to get close to game with a traditional rifle. Many young guys don't want to put in the ffort and value a kill more than the hunt. Their heroes weren't Daniel Boone and they have no childhood fantasies of being alone in the wilderness. We grew up on cowboys, frontiersmen, the Long Rifle mystique, etc. The American Bicentennial meant something. Lots of today's hunters grew up on Transformers. Jus' sayin'
This video you made truly speaks to the heart of what muzzleloder hunter seasons are supposed to be about. To get a special big game season for nothing but muzzleloader firearm was a monumental to climb with enough support, done with signed petitions, to get state legislators to begin a chance for it. That was how it occurred here in Arkansas 50 years ago. When the legislation passed an our governor signed it, lots of us traditional muzzleloader rejoiced and the first hunt season was momentous for all of us. Old style muzzlestuffer flint or percussion, not in-line, did bring into the minds of all who did & some still do, myself included, what it was like for our ancestors. The allowable firearms should only be flintlock, sidelock percussion, and matchlock type without scopes of any style. That is my opinion, and I totally agree with your presentation. Keep saying those type of thing so that the future of what was meant to be special has a chance to remain.
I agree..,,, primitive hunting season,,should be done with PRIMITIVE,,arms,,no scopes,,no sabots,,real black powder,,no plastic stocks,,only what was used before modern cartridges were invented,! every state should rethink this !
I think Pennsylvania has a flintlock or "traditional" muzzleloading season. I've agree with your sentiment going back decades - BP or ML hunting season should be for traditional designs. There's very little difference hunting with a scoped lever-action 30-30 than with a saboted T/C inline perc-cap powder pellet "muzzle loader." I'd prefer a "primitive firearms" season between archery and regular gun season, limited to pre-1850 style designs. Then they could have an extended or second muzzle loading season after regular gun season where modern muzzleloaders are allowed.
I agree, traditional is king. Montana never had a historical season. until 2 years ago we were the only state that didn’t. Now we finally have one and it’s side lock only But alas, it’s only 10 days and it’s “Tommy can you see me?” In 40” of hunter’s orange
I agree with you. I have never and will never own an inline. I just don't have any interest in them. I really want a Fusil De Chasse and am researching them at the moment.
I 100% agree about these 'modern' muzzleloaders. Now here in this state, they are considering allowing straight walled cartridges 1 5/8 or less in single shot guns into muzzleloading season. Also moving the start of rifle season to the traditional time that muzzleloading started because of trophy hunters.
State of Maryland gets it Feb 1-3 Primitive Deer Hunt Days Hunters may only use long bows, recurve bows or flintlock and sidelock percussion muzzleloading rifles or handguns during these days. Muzzleloading revolvers are prohibited during the Primitive Deer Hunt Days. The use of draw-locks and telescopic or other electronic aiming devices are prohibited. Antlered white-tailed deer taken with a bow during the Primitive Deer Hunt Days will count towards the regular antlered archery bag limit. Antlered white-tailed deer taken with a muzzleloader during the Primitive Deer Hunt Days will count towards the regular antlered muzzleloader bag limit. All deer hunters must wear fluorescent color clothing during the Primitive Deer Hunt Days
I agree with you 100%. But folks want the muzzleloader season with out all the hiccups that can come with a side lock muzzleloader. History slip's away to innovation. Tradition with their PA pellet or ultra light or now shed horn is the last of the affordable side lock muzzleloader. I have a large collection of flintlock guns. Most are pedersoli. I do have a CVA and Thompson Center and a Lyman signature series 50 made by pedersoli. Up here in Canada flintlock, matchlock or wheel lock muzzleloader need no license to own or use. But a percussion gun does . That's Canada for you. All pistols flintlock or percussion need a R PAL license PA has a flintlock only season with out that I think the flintlock would have disappeared. A flintlock is magic in the hand. Spark to flash and bang and is still my favorite. If it doesn't fire that's my fault lol. I can't blame the gun. Crap in the touch hole, powder damp, Frizzen to cold, flint not sharp, frizzen not clean. That's real in your face muzzleloading LoL 🤣🤣
That sucks !!! I lije those guns. I got divorced recently . All my guns gone with divorce. I was hoping to try to a rifle from Lyman when could save my money to get one. Now I will be not able to get one. I guess when I can save enough I guess get Traditions. No CVAs either. I guess if don't get a rifle then I if I find out a flea market or yard sale somewhere. 🤕🥶
My actual introduction to muzzleloaders was at Silver Dollar City in Branson, Missouri they would demonstrate how to load and fire the rifle and then pick someone from the crowd to shoot it, if I remember correctly I was around 12 years old. (I was already an avid shooter and gun enthusiasts) Guns were a part of everyday life in the area I grew up in. And from that point on, I wanted a flintlock rifle. (I'm originally from southwest Missouri) but never purchased one until many years later. I'm not sure when I purchased my first flintlock muzzleloader, but it was a pedersoli. Early American Jaeger rifle 54-caliber from Dixie Gun Works for a little over $500.00, including shipping. Now they cost $1650.00 plus. My next rifle was a custom-made hawken 54-caliber percussion built in the 70s 36" barrel and very well built and maintained. (Very accurate). Then, just recently, a Jim Kibler Colonial American Longrifle 54-caliber, beautiful curly maple stock, and it's extremely accurate to. I honestly can't tell the difference in the lock time from the Kibler flintlock and the Hawken percussion rifle, both very fast.
Garrett, you are absolutely right I never hunted deer but if I did I would use my CVA Mountain rifle. Like you I have really never liked the in lines the muzzleloading hunting seaso is corrupted by inlines! As a matter of fact I traded my last inline straight up for a messed up 91/30 Mosin Nagant and feel like I got the best end of that deal.
I bought a 1977 Lyman (Investarm) Plains rifle 50cal. I guess it came before the Great Plains rifle. It has brass furniture on it. Looks like a TC Hawken.
I totally understand. Im just getting starting into muzzleloading. I cant find a simple wood and steel entry level side lock. They seem to have given up on the market. I wont get an inline rifle. Thanks for the video.
Amen brother! I don't really consider an inline a black powder rifle. I have a Traditions 50 caliber Hawken or the spin-off whatever it happens to be with what you're calling the side lock. It's a double trigger and it's a Flintlock and I absolutely love it. I will never get rid of this maybe some of my other guns like you usually do, buy sell trade you know but not this one, this one gets passed down and my son loves it too so he's excited when I die, not really but you know what I'm saying. Thank you for putting this out it's about time somebody said something like this, again I agree with you no in lines it should be traditional sidelock.
Here in montana they started a couple years ago the heritage season has to be faplock wheel lock or flintlock loose powder and sold lead bullets or balls no sabots and I absolutely love it and I did build me a traditions mountain rifle and it’s a beast
Yes there is Kibler, Muzzle loader supply and Track of the wolf kits and supplies. I owned a Thompson center Hawken type rifle but sold it. I plan on putting together a more traditional kit soon. In my opinion the inline rifles are just one step away from a cartridge rifle.
the reason i got into traditional muzzle loading was because of the movie jeremiah johnson when i was maybe 6-7-8 years old i always knew that when i got into muzzleloading that i eventually would get into the more modern inlines (havent yet as of 2024) i do plan to to buy a modern inline but im honestly pretty interested in the traditions deer stalker it looks hawken esque but has a synthetic stock and maybe even a scope mount just dont recall for certain we cant deny that our fore fathers were willing to adopt flintlocks over matchlocks percussion caps over fluntlocks and eventually rimfire and centerfire that being said i cant hate on anyone for using a modern inline
Great video. Love my Lyman Plains rifle in .50. Of the 5 muzzleloaders I own it is my favorite, and all of them are sidelocks. I personally hate in line rifles but at least people are getting out to do more hunting. I use a TC Renegade .50 for the muzzleloader season because it is lighter and shorter than my Lyman. But when I hit the range the Lyman gets used the most. To bad the in lines are causing the death of such great rifles.
Hell, I even sold my Thompson Center Renegade Hunter Single Trigger Model at my local gun store, they almost turned me away because no one is buying sidelock rifles. Everyone wants modern Muzzleloaders be they In-Lines or Muzzleloading bolt actions from Remington
Muzzle Loading season should be for guns in the spirit of the original, going like they are they will soon completely stop the Muzzle Loading season as being a technicality only.
In the 1980’s I shot the plains rifle so much I was on my 3rd barrel! They were a very well built cheaper Traditional Muzzloader! It will be a loss to the new shooters whom can’t afford a custom gun!
Makes me sad like we are losing some of our heritage in a way like what used to be a fun thing to build with you grandpa just became a rare collectors gun bums me out. Thanks for the info tho love you're videos
I agree with you, I don't think in-lines should be included in the muzzle loading deer season. Use them in regular rifle deer season. I own a Lyman 50cal Trade rifle and a T/C 45 cal Cherokee that I use it all the time in regular rifle deer season in my state.
I bought my GPR back in 1995. It was a very good rifle. Heavy AF, but a great rifle. It was stolen when my house was robbed in 2017. I'm older now( 60) and it's just too heavy for my tastes . I've got my eye on a Military Heritage fusil de chasse.
Garret I agree 100%. I just got my first modern muzzle loader because it was an extra encore barrel with a 45-70 pistol rig with a 22-250 barrel. My woods runner just showed up. I will experiment with the 209x50 magnum but it isn’t my interest. It’s a damn shame Lyman stopped making rifles. My Great Plains was my pinnacle flintlock until my killer gets built. I’m glad Pennsylvania still has flintlock only.
I totally agree with the concept that inline shouldn't be aloud for primitive deer hunting. I don't what ppl think. I never missed with the old CVA bobcat 50 cal. It was a $100.00 gun maybe $150.00 can't remember. It shot great for the money.
Great guns I have one in 54. Shot it all day one time on homemade powder & caps surprisingly reliable and of coarse accurate. I need to try this new bullet mold I bought for it
Well I just traded a a&h mod 420 nickel plated for a h&a numiruch arms under hammer in 58, got it home cut a 1960,s monarch side 50 in half made a breech plug out of a 5/8 - 18 bolt put barrel in place of the 58 barrel but the best thing I did was drill that monarch but through so the hooked butt,massive tool box on the side in brass ,next I'm putting a 54 tc barrel hawken together for it,and I mite cut up a n.i.b tc system one 32 cal.for it's barrel also pull a 1/4 #8bolt swap barrels under hammers were designed between 1815& 1860 traditional, do not forget the mule ear also.good shooting all.
I agree about kicking the inlines OUT of the muzzleloading season. The folks that will be hurting soon are the traditional gun builders. The Kibler kits are so easy to put together that almost anyone with 1/2 a brain can get one put together in the white over a weekend. Those builders that charge $1500.00 to $1800.00+ ( and upwards to a year to complete ) will start feeling the pinch of the Kibler Kits...especially when you can get your own kit for roughly $1200.00--$1400.00 and have a gun you can pass down to your children. Kibler got into the business at the right time since everyone is leaving the factory gun market except Traditions. Good video my friend....
oh yes i love the kiblers but i am sad to see the orange box go. bythe way i bought this lyman a couple of years ago right after you did the unboxing video so my blackpowder syndromitis is partially your fault lol
@@Real11BangBang LOL...that's pretty cool.. As you found out...the Investarm models are getting more difficult to find. I definitely prefer those over the Pedersoli models. As you stated, the price was ridiculously high for basically the same gun only built under the Pedersoli roof. I absolutely LOVE shooting the one I have. I'll never get rid of it, even though I can't hit much of anything with it...!!
These traditional muzzleloaders are a thing of the past. This younger generation wants inlines.ill admit I done the inline thing for a while but I sold my inline and bought a traditional muzzleloader. Have more fun with a traditional muzzleloader
Ive bought 4 muzzleloaders last year. Two in line and two side locks, one was a kit for my brother. Im thinking about a flint lock. Not sure if i want a Kentucky or the Traditions Pa Pellet Flint lock.
Garret my brother from another mother, or should I say possibly my son. This is a subject near and dear to my heart, and I could right an entire book just to this subject video alone. I feel in love with this lifestyle in 1972. I never looked back it's hard for me to type everything now and after a stroke have often thought I typed words that ultimately wasn't leaving some sentences incomprehensible. Worse it impaired my vision so I can't even prof read my own words. Let's start with that I 90.1 percent agree with you. The other 8.9 I will discuss when or if we communicate as I best can.
Bertha I think by now you know what she means to me, but also by now know she isn't my first. When Lyman great plains rifle came into my view finder I was put on my list along with a browning introduction to a short lived Hawkin. In the last year I have acquired a .50 caliber flintlock great plains manufactured in the late 80's. Immediately ordered a replacement barrel from log cabin shop in the 1 n 60" twist of .54 caliber. Yes I would like to have a hunters rifle twist barrel for it , but it is not a priority. I have spent the extra$ to obtain the pedersoli jaeger flintlock that oddly enough comes with a not so friendly 1 n27" twist. I however lay the blame at the feet of what became an American value. Greed. Greed from shameless and even false propaganda from manufacturers claiming the virtues of a lazer accurate system beyond reality. Greedy states seeing orange clad over charged licenses sales and tourist dollars. Brought in, with wildlife management be damn. Outfitters charging tens of thousands of dollars to harvest a trophy in two days so we can get in the next group. And I go on forever on that line a muzzleloader season should have never be regulated by these laws. A muzzleloader season be traditional equipment, with traditional clothing in traditional ways not a cash out lane at kroger's mentality. Think about it most states have 1- 2 month long archery seasons in camouflage with game changing equipment yet we cant set a week or two for buckskin clad traditionalist a safe time with a passion so important to where it all came from.
Garrett technically you have a gold mine. Let me explain myself. I have long had the desire to obtain 30,000- 50,000 acres run down working ranch solely with one goal in mind. The ultimate anti dude ranch, dude ranch. A place that the only visible que at the entrance is a sign reading. WELCOME TO 1823. Lots of details to numerous to mention here but a hunting limited to only traditional archers and buckskin clad smokepole enthusiasts where a person can experience a fresh harvested hump rib roasted over the open fire as it should be. No shooting fray a truck just straight up honest earned accomplishment with a fee is a portion of the bounty at the evening campfire meal.
This is what would have keep tradition alive is living the tradition.
Wearing orange vest hats Muck boots on a Yamaha UTV with a side lock is like going to a cowboy action shoot wearing a complete thoroughbred jockey racing outfit with a quirt strapping on a colt belt rig.
Hope this all makes sense
yee haw. this is 100% the best comment i have ever read i am so sick of this doctor and lawyers only money game that is masquerading as muzzleloader season. those people wouldnt know a moccasin from a capote if there lives depended on it. you my captain are very wise
@@Real11BangBang 😉 Booshway
THANK YOU for saying that in line rifles have no place in black powder primitive firearms seasons! The whole idea behind black powder seasons was to give the hunter the opportunity to experience hunting the way our great grandfathers did, using the firearms they used, not scoped, electrically ignited, pellet fed, conical bullet shooting in lines.
100%👍
Amen. In Utah they moved the muzzleloader season before rifle season instead of in the middle.of the rut in the winter. 50 percent of hunters went out and bought inlines. I was shooting my flitlock next to a guy shooting out to 200 yards with his scoped inline... And he was shooting smokeless powder..
I also agree on that. Here in Oregon where I live they do have certain rules for muzzleloading only hunts. No scopes, only iron sights, only loose powder, open ignition, no 209 shotgun primers, no fiber optic sights and so on and it should be that way to keep muzzleloading only hunts primative.
Bunch of Elmer Fudds here. Using inline rifles during muzzleloader season has no effect on your own use of a older style muzzleloader.
@@2010GT500 It literally does though. There is ZERO handicap with a modern inline front stuffer in comparison to a cartridge rifle with the exception of realistically being limited to one shot on your deer before it runs. And most often if you shoot and miss even with a metallic cartridge repeater the deer doesn't give you an opportunity for a second shot, even with an automatic. Point being is that muzzleloader season was invented for the same reason as bow season. To handicap. To offer a PRIMITIVE experience. To use TRADITIONAL weapons. NOT to be taken advantage of with technicalities in order to get an unfair advantage on the next guy using a common modern rifle. Call us Fudds all you like, but when all of us "Fudds" have gone on to the happy hunting grounds in the sky YOU and your generation will see the RIGHT to hunt DIE with us. At that point enjoy your gate-kept, neo noble, expensive pastime, if you can afford to.
I have to agree with you 100%. Justified rant!!! Thanks for speaking up and being counted!!
100%👍
I 100% agree with keeping hunting with muzzleloaders traditional. When I used to hunt back 20 years ago, all my friends and their fathers used inlines. I never cared for that. So I always went along with my Lyman Great Plains flintlock that I put together from a kit myself. And now here in NJ we’ve got guys running around the woods with crossbows, thinking they’re big time bow-hunters
exactly keep it traditional
I have to disagree. I started on inlines and eventually went into the traditional route. I think inlines are a great starting point for beginners as well as pushing the limits of BP.
I have 2 brothers that bought inlines to go muzzle loading hunting. For the first time just the 3 of us in North Missouri. They sighted their 50. Cal.s in. We hunted, I dropped a doe. It was at 150 yards out. Long story short. They haven't used them since. Take care and keep on the trail. TT
Matt Liptak: WHERE ARE YOU IN NJ?!! I live in Woodbridge. Been a buckskinner, off and on, since the late 70's.. Haven't fired my flintlock in AGES, there being NO PLACE to do so anywhere LESS than two hours drive away!
I would LOVE to be able to get together with other followers of our sport(obsession?).
BTW, I've been doing leatherwork, as a hobby, for about 50 years, and made all my buckskinning gear(except for firearms, at which I have NO talent whatever) myself, and am still quite willing to do custom work if someone wants it
I agree with you completely with muzzle loading hunting. Muzzle loading and primitive hunting should be old fashioned sidelock like you said.
If not flint lock…..
I feel the same way about crossbows in archery season. Glad I got both barrels for my Lyman GPR years back.
yes good thing you got them
I agree with you100%. I wouldn't have an inline ML rifle if you gave me one. What they are is nothing but the "Easy Button" for those who couldn't care less about traditional arms. Sad days ahead for us old school ML folks.
well like isaid the good news is kibler is killing it with his kits they are great guns. but most people arnt going to want to build there first muzzleloader
Agree totally with you on traditional side locks for muzzle loading season. Unfortunately muzzle loading in West Virginia means putting a 12 year old on a stand watching a corn feeder with inline scoped "muzzle loader".
I agree with you 100%. Whenever I would fill out a Ks deer survey, I would let them know of my dislike for allowing the use of inlines during Muzzleloader season.
yes it should be traditional only. it is just getting crazy now they have smokless in line muzzleloading. that is way over the line
This is Ethan hey Garrett don't forget not only are they smokeless inline "muzzleloaders" some of them are not even really muzzleloaders anymore cuz they load from the breach
I’m a seventy two old man who has been wheelchair bound for approximately four years. Hunting was my favorite past time. I haven’t hunted since I was injured. I have an old CVA in-line that I would use during muzzleloading season. I have been bored this winter so I bought a Traditions Kentucky kit to see if I’d like it. Well, I’ve been bitten by the bug and now will try my hand at building a more complex kit. At the church I attend I’ve met one of our members who was a gunsmith at Williamsburg and is willing to help me if I run into trouble. Thanks for the video!
I'm 72 years old myself and I have a traditions 50 caliber Hawken, kind of, it's not just like a Hawken but it looks like a Hawken. It's a double set trigger and I absolutely love it. It's a little hard for me to shoot off hand because of my muscle atrophy but I can prop that baby up and shoot great. Stick with it old man and I can say that because I am too.
I'm sorry to hear all about this. I agree with you about Pedersoli, too. I was shocked at the price for their Kentucky rifles when you look at what you get vs. what you could have for a little more (or a little less) money.
oh yeah i have both and i will take a kibler any day
Yeah but kibler rifles will cost you over a$1000 dollars after every thing is said and done not everyone can afford to pay that for a muzzleloader
Brother, I TOTALLY AGREE with you on the ML deer seasons!
Right on
Don't know how I missed this when you put it out you're right about muzzleloading season. And great comparison talk thank you.
I totally agree with you. Over the past 35 years I've collected the front staffers I've always wanted. I still call it muzzle loading season. Even though they now call it alternative weapons season. Most of all. I enjoy muzzle loading and will use my GPR. For the rest of my days. Thanks for the information. Take care and keep on the trail. TT
yup im definitely keeping my gpr as well
The sad part of all this is. When I first got bit by the blackpowder rendezvous bug. My first layman rifle cost 200 dollars and you could get enough power and balls and caps 100 rounds for 8.00 to 10.00. I feel sorry for those guys that have taken up the sport now. Because it's not going to get any cheaper. If you're going to get a good quality firearm. Take care and keep to the trail. T.T.
I agree with your views on muzzle loading deer season.
Pretty sure Kibler has a Hawken on their list of future kits. Can’t wait for that.
me either i will be on the list day one on that one
The problem is a a $1300 Hawken kit isn't going to introduce any new shooters to the experience of traditional muzzleloaders. At best it will add some additional used sidelocks on GunBroker.
Kibler makes a "kit "gun. And charges handmade prices. They do not do anything. It's a put together gun. They do not sell or make a handmade gun. People have gone crazy saying how great "Kibler rifles are"" and they are no different than CVA or any other Black Powder Kit maker. A kit gun is a kit gun. Kibler isn't a Gun or Rifle manufactory maker. They sell a rifle ""YOU"" have to make right. Get so tired of all the Bullshyte....!!! Peace.
Me gusta la avancarga porque no necesitas ir a comprar nada para hacer tus cartuchos ,fulminantes, balas o perdigones para cazar te los puedes fabricar tu mismo en casa
Son una buena alternativa de supervivencia . Cuando por diversas razones en estos tiempos que vivimos
No te quieran vender municiones .
Saludos desde Santiago de Chile Souht America 🇨🇱🇨🇱🇨🇱👍👍👍
You are spot on.
You can still get the same exact rifle as the older Investarms Lymen Great Plains Rifle. The Investarms Gemmer Hawken is the same exact rifle as the Lymen & is still in production. I have 3 Thompson Center Hawken & Renegades in 50 & 54, I also have a new in box Pedersoli Traditional Hawken Target 50, a unfired CVA Hawken Supreme 54 with the chrome lined bore, & a CVA Mountain Rifle 50. My next muzzleloader will be either a slightly used Lymen Great Plains Rifle 54, or a brand new Investarms Gemmer Hawken 54.
You are 100% right. And now you have people using smoke less powder just wrong.
Spot on Black powder brother, I hunt with a lyman GPR, I have a roundball and a conical barrel, I started muzzleloading in the mid 70s when I built a CVA mountain rifle kit, I have a 45,& a 50 cal with what I have been told were douglas barrels, both shot very well, and a later model 54 with a Spanish barrel, also very accurate, but the GPR is my go to for deer hunting, I love it, I also have a couple of ML shotguns both double and a single that I made, a couple of 36 cal squirrel rifles, traditions 32 cricket, and a 44 cal investarms, I may have another one or two, I, my brother, son and nephew all hunt with side hamm
ers including flinters, we are probably in the 1% club here in Oklahoma! inlines, with scopes , synthetic stocks, are the new norms, crossbows are taking over the archery market, I think its all about selling more deer tags, and the easier it is the better!
My first black powder rifle was the Lyman Stainless Steel Deer Stalker Percussion 50 cal that I bought around 15 years ago. I still have it and it’s a amazing rifle that I love. Accurate and since I’m a Florida native, lifelong resident and have only hunted in Florida since I was 6 years old . It’s shorter barrel is perfect for hunting our terrain which is often very thick brush that you hunt by walking on narrow game trails that often lead to a patch network of small to medium sized openings. Spinning around a long barrel rifle just isn’t practical for the terrain I hunt where most shots I take or less then 50 yards . I’m sure there is people who use them to hunt in Florida where they have terrain to make long shots. I’m just speaking for myself and where an how I hunt . For what I do the Deer Stalker is perfect
i agree with you that the BP season should be for traditional rifles and pistols. I bought a break top to see if i could get better accuracy, not shot the same except i needed more powder for expansion bullets to work, 90 gr instead of 80 gr to get the bullet to seal.
Here in ontario we have a shotgun season, back in the 70’s a lot of us shot Thompson center sidelocks,or the smoothbore shotguns,now the savage 220 rules with a scope and capable of hitting a coffee cup at 200+ yards
With a rifled barrel and sabots!!
Deer have no chance.
Miss the old days.
Good vid 👍
I started with a Traditions flintlock. My next gun was a Traditions percussion long rifle. From there I purchased a Lyman's Great Plains flintlock and a Connecticut Valley Arms percussion.
In my area there are no black powder clubs so I shoot at a rifle range. I am the only traditional black powder shooter out of 250 plus members. Almost half of those shooting modern muzzle loaders scoped up don't shoot them because they are too expensive to shoot, however they take one or two shots prior to the black powder deer season to insure they are still on target at 200 yards. Has anyone noticed the average age at a Rendezvous event? Enough said.
In today's instant gratification society I doubt that traditional side lock guns will eventually be phased out.
I was lucky to pick up two Thompson guns (a Flintlock and a Percussion) both for under $300 a few years ago. I'll be keeping ahold of them!
oh yeah you cant touch them for uder 700 hardly anymore
Love my old TC New Englanders, have a 12ga and a .54 from the late 80’s
I got a lyman GPR for about $250 back in 2012. Was a kit build from a gentleman who had passed and his wife wanted it to go to someone who would appreciate it. Shot that rifle almost every day for a good year. Still my favorite to take out hunting. Blows my mind how much these things are going for now.
I totally agree with you 100 % with regards to the new muzzle loaders on the market. I would never purchase a modern muzzle loader. It is counterintuitive to the tradition. But really, history is not being taught to our youth. You may be preaching to the congregation. I got into the black powder guns about three years ago. The flintlocks are becoming my favorite. But I'm old. I think each person that has embraced the old ways of the muzzle loaders needs to take one young person under their wing to at least attempt to garner interest in black powder shooting. Otherwise, this part of history will vanish.
100% there is no Disney davy crockett or robert redford jerimiah jhonson these days to revitalize it so i guess it is just up to us
This hits home. I remember my grandfather using a muzzloading shotgun for hunting quail and dove and I've been wanting to get into a side by side muzzloading shotgun but like you said they demand a high price.
yes way to high for what they are
I agree completely with U about the primitive hunting season! Lock, stock, and barrel. It's become about $$$$
yes sir
Couldn't agree more!
Your a good man 100 percent keep muzzle loading season traditional!
Luckily here in Idaho we still have a true black powder season for elk. Flintlock or side percussion cap only. Btw, I have an older Lyman Great Plains rifle with the slow twist and left hand in .54 caliber. Take several deer during the regular rifle season.
I think the issue killing off sidelocks is newer shooters don't know how to use iron sights or consider them too much trouble. Most deer down here are taken at 75yds or less, but nobody uses irons or peeps. Variables 3-9 or up on just about every rifle. Even lever guns come from the factory with rails. The future is bleak.
With you 100%!
I love my kibler colonial flintlock in 58 caliber. Next on my list is a woodsrunner, and they made it sound like a Hawkins rifle is on their short list as well a fowler. I started with a cva kit myself, then a lyman great plains rifle in 54 . I agree completely
I agree about the modern muzzleloader rifle. That there shouldn't have ever been allowed in muzzleloading season.
My first muzzleloaders were CVA Mountain pistol and rifle. This was the late 70’s and both were kits I built. A few years back I built a Traditions Kentucky rifle kit. I worked over the stock so it was more historically accurate. It’s accurate but the length of pull is only 12.5” and the trigger is atrocious!
I completely agree with your opinion on traditional hunting seasons!
My Investarms/Lyman Trade Rifle is a my go-to flintlock for flintlock season in PA. What an amazing firearm.
I have a traditions sidelock and an old cva inline. I love the sidelock and shoot it a couple of sessions a month but hardly shoot the inline anymore. I agree with you Garrett about restricting muzzleloading seasons to traditional arms and hate to see these companies getting out of the business.
yeah the inlines just arnt the same as taking a deer the same way our ancestors did
I own 2 inline muzzleloaders use to hunt a lot with them. Then I ordered a LYMAN great plains kit in 54. I built it and was amazed how much fun it was and how accurate it was. Well lets just say I have 24 side locks and flint locks now. I own a CVA Kentucky rifle in 45 with a slow twist very accurate gun. Thompson center Hawken in 50 and 45 well you get the point. Where I hunt their is a older guy in his 70s that hunts muzzle-loader and gun season with his Thompson center Hawken in 45 he said why buy a rifle when I got all I need right here. I now do the same both seasons with my 54 great Plains.
I have a 30-30 and a .270 which I hardly ever use anymore. My El cheapo .50 CVA Mountain rifle from 1979 ($79 on clearance) outshoots my .50 TC Hawken ($200, used), and is lighter to lug around, so that's my field partner for both seasons these days. Just learned recently that the CVA is more authentic to the original Hawken than the T/C. BAN INLINES FROM ML SEASON!
Yeah. Pedersoli charges way too much, but let's hope Kibler makes one.
i have hear kiblers say one is in the works. that would be awsome. an authentic hawken right out of the box for under 2,000 bucks is unheard of
It's a shame Lyman isn't making the gpr any longer. It really is a great gun. I was hoping to get a few more then the one I have but I am out of luck. I feel the same way about the tc guns (even some of their modern rifles). I do love these guns and as you said it was where most folks start. I see little reason to go further wither. The guns are so good that they will serve for generations with proper care. I am planning on a few more muzzleloaders such as a long gun and a fowler but I also want a couple more cap locks with the shorter stocks. Some are easy enough but the cap lock guns have become more challenging with the disappearance of so many players in the game
I agree Garrett. I liked that last CVA you showed :)
lol yeah that one you jad is pretty sweet too
@@Real11BangBang I see you have adapted well to a right hand world and learned to shoot right handed.
lol i couldn't shoot a rifle right handed to save my life.... couldnt even shoulder right handed more than likely
Good evening from Syracuse NY brother and everyone else. Now I bought my muzzleloader used a long rifle ( percussion muzzleloader).
i hope it gives you many years of service
It will my friend and I just got my NRA muzzleloader instructor certification paperwork
Thanks for the shout out man! Appreciate it!
I watched your video and it sent me back about 40 years ago when I was a young man and into cap and ball shooting. I still own a Lyman's plains rifle and a Johnathan Browning mountain rifle in 50 cal. I dug them out and dusted them off for a trip down memory lane. I can't believe that they increased that much in value...I figured they wouldn't be worth much now with all the fuss about in line rifles!
oh yes that browning gun is worth a fortune nowa days
The browning.......if I was rich .....I'd offer you a stupid price
I use entry level Kits, Investarms, Did three, first was a target rifle with Lyman Target Sights. I bought the Last LH Investarms .50 Flintlock. I am carving up the stock now to get behind the sights. Like a shotgun Butt but i am carving a dish for my face in the cheek piiece.
Have a traditional season AND a modern muzzleloader season!! That way people will buy both!!
100%
There aren't enough weeks in the fall to have FOUR deer seasons. The calendar is already crowded as it is. Kick the inlines out of muzzle loader season. If they want modern amenities, they can hunt in regular rifle season. Call it "Master Class" and charge a premium for the license.
I've thought before , we need a special sidelock season . Even cut the black powder season in half . Half season modern BP half season primitive BP .......
Totally agree. Montana finally got a short muzzleloader season and it is sidelock only.
I am 100% agreement with sidelock muzzleloading for deer
yeah i allways thought that was the whole reason for the season
Alot of barriers are killing off traditional muzzleloading, the scarcity and cost of No.11 percussion caps, the difficulty of sourcing black powder locally and even by shipment, and lastly the increased cost of the gun itself.
Black powder scarcity is not because of in lines. It's because by law black powder is an explosive or hazardous material. Their are sites that sell it but you have to pay a hazardous shipping fee.
It's mostly due to the age of traditional hunters and fans. The rendevouzs have really dried up. We're dying off and just getting too old to hunt with the traditional guns anymore. It takes work to get close to game with a traditional rifle. Many young guys don't want to put in the ffort and value a kill more than the hunt. Their heroes weren't Daniel Boone and they have no childhood fantasies of being alone in the wilderness. We grew up on cowboys, frontiersmen, the Long Rifle mystique, etc. The American Bicentennial meant something. Lots of today's hunters grew up on Transformers.
Jus' sayin'
I Totally agree with you about Muzzleloader should be Primitive ! Inline rifle should not be allowed!
Black powder season should be a muzzle loader season
This video you made truly speaks to the heart of what muzzleloder hunter seasons are supposed to be about. To get a special big game season for nothing but muzzleloader firearm was a monumental to climb with enough support, done with signed petitions, to get state legislators to begin a chance for it. That was how it occurred here in Arkansas 50 years ago. When the legislation passed an our governor signed it, lots of us traditional muzzleloader rejoiced and the first hunt season was momentous for all of us. Old style muzzlestuffer flint or percussion, not in-line, did bring into the minds of all who did & some still do, myself included, what it was like for our ancestors. The allowable firearms should only be flintlock, sidelock percussion, and matchlock type without scopes of any style. That is my opinion, and I totally agree with your presentation. Keep saying those type of thing so that the future of what was meant to be special has a chance to remain.
thankyou very much
Agree with you totally buddy!! No need to apologize!!
I agree..,,, primitive hunting season,,should be done with PRIMITIVE,,arms,,no scopes,,no sabots,,real black powder,,no plastic stocks,,only what was used before modern cartridges were invented,! every state should rethink this !
I think Pennsylvania has a flintlock or "traditional" muzzleloading season. I've agree with your sentiment going back decades - BP or ML hunting season should be for traditional designs. There's very little difference hunting with a scoped lever-action 30-30 than with a saboted T/C inline perc-cap powder pellet "muzzle loader."
I'd prefer a "primitive firearms" season between archery and regular gun season, limited to pre-1850 style designs. Then they could have an extended or second muzzle loading season after regular gun season where modern muzzleloaders are allowed.
Lots of good information, great video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
I agree, traditional is king. Montana never had a historical season. until 2 years ago we were the only state that didn’t. Now we finally have one and it’s side lock only
But alas, it’s only 10 days and it’s “Tommy can you see me?” In 40” of hunter’s orange
I agree with you. I have never and will never own an inline. I just don't have any interest in them. I really want a Fusil De Chasse and am researching them at the moment.
there is ton of history in that french trade gun you really cant go wrong with it
I 100% agree about these 'modern' muzzleloaders. Now here in this state, they are considering allowing straight walled cartridges 1 5/8 or less in single shot guns into muzzleloading season. Also moving the start of rifle season to the traditional time that muzzleloading started because of trophy hunters.
wow uncle sasquatch. thanks for commenting. we have been big fans fans of yours for some time.
@@Real11BangBang Thanks! I appreciate it.
State of Maryland gets it Feb 1-3 Primitive Deer Hunt Days
Hunters may only use long bows, recurve bows or flintlock and sidelock percussion muzzleloading rifles or handguns during these days. Muzzleloading revolvers are prohibited during the Primitive Deer Hunt Days.
The use of draw-locks and telescopic or other electronic aiming devices are prohibited.
Antlered white-tailed deer taken with a bow during the Primitive Deer Hunt Days will count towards the regular antlered archery bag limit.
Antlered white-tailed deer taken with a muzzleloader during the Primitive Deer Hunt Days will count towards the regular antlered muzzleloader bag limit.
All deer hunters must wear fluorescent color clothing during the Primitive Deer Hunt Days
I agree with you 100%. But folks want the muzzleloader season with out all the hiccups that can come with a side lock muzzleloader. History slip's away to innovation. Tradition with their PA pellet or ultra light or now shed horn is the last of the affordable side lock muzzleloader. I have a large collection of flintlock guns. Most are pedersoli. I do have a CVA and Thompson Center and a Lyman signature series 50 made by pedersoli. Up here in Canada flintlock, matchlock or wheel lock muzzleloader need no license to own or use. But a percussion gun does . That's Canada for you. All pistols flintlock or percussion need a R PAL license PA has a flintlock only season with out that I think the flintlock would have disappeared. A flintlock is magic in the hand. Spark to flash and bang and is still my favorite. If it doesn't fire that's my fault lol. I can't blame the gun. Crap in the touch hole, powder damp, Frizzen to cold, flint not sharp, frizzen not clean. That's real in your face muzzleloading LoL 🤣🤣
I Agee 100% with you .
I miss Thompson Center flintlock guns.
yeah they were great
That sucks !!! I lije those guns. I got divorced recently . All my guns gone with divorce. I was hoping to try to a rifle from Lyman when could save my money to get one. Now I will be not able to get one. I guess when I can save enough I guess get Traditions. No CVAs either. I guess if don't get a rifle then I if I find out a flea market or yard sale somewhere. 🤕🥶
Well the good news is there will still be used ones on the market for awhile
I could not agree more. But hey the Investarm Hawken is still imported its now called the Gemmar Hawken.
I bought a new TC Renegade .54 caliber, 1/48" ( shoots 220 gr round balls very accurately.. 400 gr + bullets pretty accurate $160 many yrs ago
My actual introduction to muzzleloaders was at Silver Dollar City in Branson, Missouri they would demonstrate how to load and fire the rifle and then pick someone from the crowd to shoot it, if I remember correctly I was around 12 years old.
(I was already an avid shooter and gun enthusiasts) Guns were a part of everyday life in the area I grew up in.
And from that point on, I wanted a flintlock rifle. (I'm originally from southwest Missouri) but never purchased one until many years later.
I'm not sure when I purchased my first flintlock muzzleloader, but it was a pedersoli.
Early American Jaeger rifle 54-caliber from Dixie Gun Works for a little over $500.00, including shipping.
Now they cost $1650.00 plus.
My next rifle was a custom-made hawken 54-caliber percussion built in the 70s 36" barrel and very well built and maintained. (Very accurate).
Then, just recently, a Jim Kibler Colonial American Longrifle 54-caliber, beautiful curly maple stock, and it's extremely accurate to.
I honestly can't tell the difference in the lock time from the Kibler flintlock and the Hawken percussion rifle, both very fast.
100% spot on
Garrett, you are absolutely right I never hunted deer but if I did I would use my CVA Mountain rifle. Like you I have really never liked the in lines the muzzleloading hunting seaso is corrupted by inlines! As a matter of fact I traded my last inline straight up for a messed up 91/30 Mosin Nagant and feel like I got the best end of that deal.
lol you one that deal
i agree 100% , my 50 year old CVA mountain rifle stays wrapped up and clean , balls only , it's a beautiful rifle ! ----thanks man ------Jesse
those mountain rifles are sweet!
I bought a 1977 Lyman (Investarm) Plains rifle 50cal. I guess it came before the Great Plains rifle. It has brass furniture on it. Looks like a TC Hawken.
yes thats how yhe stanard investarms still look good guns by the way we have one in 58
Here, here, absofreakinglutely agree!
I totally understand. Im just getting starting into muzzleloading. I cant find a simple wood and steel entry level side lock. They seem to have given up on the market. I wont get an inline rifle. Thanks for the video.
welcome here to muzzleloading!
Amen brother! I don't really consider an inline a black powder rifle. I have a Traditions 50 caliber Hawken or the spin-off whatever it happens to be with what you're calling the side lock. It's a double trigger and it's a Flintlock and I absolutely love it. I will never get rid of this maybe some of my other guns like you usually do, buy sell trade you know but not this one, this one gets passed down and my son loves it too so he's excited when I die, not really but you know what I'm saying. Thank you for putting this out it's about time somebody said something like this, again I agree with you no in lines it should be traditional sidelock.
Here in montana they started a couple years ago the heritage season has to be faplock wheel lock or flintlock loose powder and sold lead bullets or balls no sabots and I absolutely love it and I did build me a traditions mountain rifle and it’s a beast
Yes there is Kibler, Muzzle loader supply and Track of the wolf kits and supplies. I owned a Thompson center Hawken type rifle but sold it. I plan on putting together a more traditional kit soon. In my opinion the inline rifles are just one step away from a cartridge rifle.
the reason i got into traditional muzzle loading was because of the movie jeremiah johnson when i was maybe 6-7-8 years old i always knew that when i got into muzzleloading that i eventually would get into the more modern inlines (havent yet as of 2024)
i do plan to to buy a modern inline but im honestly pretty interested in the traditions deer stalker it looks hawken esque but has a synthetic stock and maybe even a scope mount just dont recall for certain
we cant deny that our fore fathers were willing to adopt flintlocks over matchlocks percussion caps over fluntlocks and eventually rimfire and centerfire that being said i cant hate on anyone for using a modern inline
Agreed! ML hunts should be for traditional ml’s. No trans powder modern firearms that self identify as a muzzleloaders on a ml hunt. Great video.
thankyou
Great video. Love my Lyman Plains rifle in .50. Of the 5 muzzleloaders I own it is my favorite, and all of them are sidelocks. I personally hate in line rifles but at least people are getting out to do more hunting. I use a TC Renegade .50 for the muzzleloader season because it is lighter and shorter than my Lyman. But when I hit the range the Lyman gets used the most. To bad the in lines are causing the death of such great rifles.
Hell, I even sold my Thompson Center Renegade Hunter Single Trigger Model at my local gun store, they almost turned me away because no one is buying sidelock rifles. Everyone wants modern Muzzleloaders be they In-Lines or Muzzleloading bolt actions from Remington
Muzzle Loading season should be for guns in the spirit of the original, going like they are they will soon completely stop the Muzzle Loading season as being a technicality only.
yes sir 100% agreed
In the 1980’s I shot the plains rifle so much I was on my 3rd barrel! They were a very well built cheaper Traditional Muzzloader!
It will be a loss to the new shooters whom can’t afford a custom gun!
Makes me sad like we are losing some of our heritage in a way like what used to be a fun thing to build with you grandpa just became a rare collectors gun bums me out. Thanks for the info tho love you're videos
thankyou for watching
I agree with you, I don't think in-lines should be included in the muzzle loading deer season. Use them in regular rifle deer season. I own a Lyman 50cal Trade rifle and a T/C 45 cal Cherokee that I use it all the time in regular rifle deer season in my state.
I bought my GPR back in 1995. It was a very good rifle. Heavy AF, but a great rifle. It was stolen when my house was robbed in 2017.
I'm older now( 60) and it's just too heavy for my tastes . I've got my eye on a Military Heritage fusil de chasse.
that fusil is a great gun
Garret I agree 100%. I just got my first modern muzzle loader because it was an extra encore barrel with a 45-70 pistol rig with a 22-250 barrel. My woods runner just showed up. I will experiment with the 209x50 magnum but it isn’t my interest. It’s a damn shame Lyman stopped making rifles. My Great Plains was my pinnacle flintlock until my killer gets built. I’m glad Pennsylvania still has flintlock only.
I totally agree with the concept that inline shouldn't be aloud for primitive deer hunting. I don't what ppl think. I never missed with the old CVA bobcat 50 cal. It was a $100.00 gun maybe $150.00 can't remember. It shot great for the money.
Oh I forgot about the archery season too. Anybody can use the crossbow now too.
💯%
Great guns I have one in 54. Shot it all day one time on homemade powder & caps surprisingly reliable and of coarse accurate. I need to try this new bullet mold I bought for it
yup very hard to beat
I've ALWAY's Wanted A .50cal Hawken...
Well I just traded a a&h mod 420 nickel plated for a h&a numiruch arms under hammer in 58, got it home cut a 1960,s monarch side 50 in half made a breech plug out of a 5/8 - 18 bolt put barrel in place of the 58 barrel but the best thing I did was drill that monarch but through so the hooked butt,massive tool box on the side in brass ,next I'm putting a 54 tc barrel hawken together for it,and I mite cut up a n.i.b tc system one 32 cal.for it's barrel also pull a 1/4 #8bolt swap barrels under hammers were designed between 1815& 1860 traditional, do not forget the mule ear also.good shooting all.
I agree about kicking the inlines OUT of the muzzleloading season. The folks that will be hurting soon are the traditional gun builders. The Kibler kits are so easy to put together that almost anyone with 1/2 a brain can get one put together in the white over a weekend. Those builders that charge $1500.00 to $1800.00+ ( and upwards to a year to complete ) will start feeling the pinch of the Kibler Kits...especially when you can get your own kit for roughly $1200.00--$1400.00 and have a gun you can pass down to your children. Kibler got into the business at the right time since everyone is leaving the factory gun market except Traditions. Good video my friend....
oh yes i love the kiblers but i am sad to see the orange box go. bythe way i bought this lyman a couple of years ago right after you did the unboxing video so my blackpowder syndromitis is partially your fault lol
@@Real11BangBang LOL...that's pretty cool.. As you found out...the Investarm models are getting more difficult to find. I definitely prefer those over the Pedersoli models. As you stated, the price was ridiculously high for basically the same gun only built under the Pedersoli roof. I absolutely LOVE shooting the one I have. I'll never get rid of it, even though I can't hit much of anything with it...!!
Sad but true it is a business and business follows the money.
true
These traditional muzzleloaders are a thing of the past. This younger generation wants inlines.ill admit I done the inline thing for a while but I sold my inline and bought a traditional muzzleloader. Have more fun with a traditional muzzleloader
Back when Jeremiah Johnson craze started, I built a 50 cal Hawkins kit from Thompson Center. Love that beast.
Thinking about trying a flintlock. I always convert my smoke poles to use musket caps, better ignition.
the flinters are a lot of fun
Muzzle loading and breach loading are two different things
Dang it
i know
Ive bought 4 muzzleloaders last year. Two in line and two side locks, one was a kit for my brother. Im thinking about a flint lock. Not sure if i want a Kentucky or the Traditions Pa Pellet Flint lock.
I think the same way, the side lock only