Why do I believe what the Narcissist tells me?
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- There is a form of psychological abuse committed by narcissistic parents that is hard to identify for a child. It is a psychological process that is designed to mess with the child’s sense of himself or herself. In fact, therapists sometimes get paid the ‘big bucks’ so that they can bring all of their professional and personal training in therapy to know when it’s happening and work to resolve it. Outside of trained professionals, it can be very difficult get out of these interpersonal knots.
I am referring to a process called projective identification. In today’s video I will describe this tactic in detail. Next, I will offer an anonymized case example of Terry* and his narcissistically abusive mother. Through the example, several features of projective identification will be illustrated. Last, I will show a clip from 'This Boy's Life' (1993) that illustrates the process in even greater detail..
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I was bullied at school, one day I came back home and told my mom about it. She said "you must have done something wrong" as if I deserved to be bullied. Then I understood she was bullying me too
So many sick folks out there who torture their family members
When the whole family does this horrendous pathological projective identification - their combined power over the scapegoat is just overwhelming. It is hard not to believe them - the scapegoat being the soft one cares about them despite their aggressive blame and shame attacks - and nothing ever gets resolved - no sorry ever. All gets swept under the "rug"- to blow up later again and again.
Omg so true‼️‼️‼️
Yep
I severed ties. I just couldn’t take it anymore it was too painful to be accused and blamed and beaten 24/7. They never stop.
The enemy ACCUSES Night and Day. These folks yield to be used Constantly by satan. They mask to hide his traits
Yupp
They even tell us what we're thinking, our motives, etc. as if our own subjective experiences were non-existent. The "or-else" is that you'll figure them out. Narcissists are often wrong, never in doubt.
100% ✓
Yes. I'm sitting over here thinking that being told what you are thinking, feeling or what your motive is, is probably the most dead give-away that you're dealing with a narcissist.
Absolutely true.
This channel is gold.
Fr
100% pure.
The child takes on the identity the parent assigns to him/her also to keep the parent safe. The child protects the parent by bearing the abuse.
Later in life the now adult child may indulge say, a female narcissist boss by saying things or acting in a way that corresponds with the way this person needs to see her employee.
or protecting a husband narc by bearing the abuse- of course it only gets worse - and she has to go away to keep herself safe.
When I was six, I thought that My Dad was wrong about a lot of stuff, and I felt guilty for daring to think I knew better than an adult. Then I had to go to church for First Communion, where there was a giant painting of Jesus in Temple with the Doctors of the Law. It made me so happy to see that a mere boy was not only telling the old guys what what was what, but that there was a painting of it in a special place.
fancynancylucille I'm feeling so happy for the obviously extremely intelligent child, who received validation from that painting!
I believe that children ARE allowed to have an opinion and disagree with their parents, yet narcissistic ones won't allow it. ❤
Yeah, like the other response this comment flooded me with joy for you
This was an amazing sum up of my family dynamics. The ONLY way for me to be a part of my family is to accept that I'm paranoid, accept that my parents have the right to label me, that it is really hurtful of me to call them out on it.
I see that they have a really rosy perception of themselves and will receive zero feedback. At 51, they can only relate through a superior/compliant dynamic and they must be right. They do not know me, they don't see me. I am summonsed to be the compliant daughter but I have no voice. at all.
This is so true. They always want to talk about what’s wrong with you with out even looking at themselves. And I hate when they claim they now me and then when you realize what there doing your paranoid
Never heard such an accurate and articulate description before in my life.
Legit !
YESSS
Jay's work has been a godsend for me.
Same
In 3 years of research, this guy Jay is the best. A recovered scapegoat makes the best therapist.
I am spending part of Mother’s Day listening to your videos as a reminder to why I am not contacting her today (first time). I went gray rock with most of my family of origin about a year ago Yesterday I watched the scapegoat ones and breathed into my pain and anger and read favorite children’s books before sleeping, taking as long as I wanted to look at the pictures. The other parts of today I am being in my garden with my fur family and having fun sending pictures back and forth with my own daughter. All this to say Thank you- your work is priceless and so, so healing
So brave!! I hope that a year on it has got better for you.
When mom used to tell me I was selfish because I was doing homework and she was a victim because she had so much unfair cooking and cleaning to do, I would know she was wrong but when I challenged her she would just gaslight, scream, yell, stand right up by my face and shout in my ears, call me dangerous and threatening for challenging her even though I had barely even raised my voice, and go on and on in such a traumatising way my brain became totally confused and I didn't even know what was being said anymore. I have Aspergers so I think I was just getting complete sensory overload. It was so confusing. It felt like I was being slammed against the side of a wall. That's probably the main reason why I feel I had no choice but to go along with her pathological projective identification in my situation.
I can totally relate to your comment Harry. I am Aspergers also and grew up in an abusive environment and yes the sensory overload of the shouting/screaming was horrible. Glad I find understanding in youtube channels like this one. Hope you're doing okay.
With Asperger's on top of it?? You now have the ability to handle Anything ❤️
Jay, these videos are inspiring me to leave my family of origin behind and find myself at the age of 31. Thank you.
Pathological Projective Identification. New term for me. The rage, obliteration, and demand to believe the outrageous and devaluing insistence that one little thing they don’t like makes me a horrible person intrinsically is so true to my experience with an identical twin. They seem bent on annihilating me no matter how much I help them - and they don’t ever want to know me.
I have now watched this 3 times, and I keep finding things to unpack from it in my own decades of experience with what I now know was narcissistic abuse. This term, pathological projective identification, and what it means is a huge eye-opener - and I hope will help me steer clear of future abuse at the hands of my twin and other narcissists that have been in my life. It is very, very sad. But, if I had only known about this before, it might have saved me a life-time of pain and confusion and frustration and lack of self-worth.
There is a distinction in modern psychology between the projection system and covert narcissism, they are different. The projection system is unconscious abuse, the covert narcissism is malicious and calculated abuse.
Yes inappropriate words and inflection for an imagined slight! I hate that narcissist gets away with this abuse!! They’re bullies!
They are bullies they bully you psychologically and physically.
As the family scapegoat and the only daughter with 3 brothers my NM has used projective identification on me my entire life. Growing up I felt invisible, I was an inconvenience to my mother. Now at 61, I am still dealing with this tactic from her, her utter disdain for me is palpable, fortunately my self worth and self esteem are no longer based upon her warped opinion of me. I have stopped expecting anything "normal" from her, she isn't capable of having a healthy adult relationship with me, she has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old so reasoning and rational do not exist. We have a very superficial relationship which is all we will ever have, I have accepted this unfortunately my brothers can't or wont. Thank you for this video.
@karen lawson I too, the family scapegoat, am the only daughter with 3 brothers to a narcissist father. I understand how esp lonely and confusing it was childhood. I also know how having low self worth/esteem makes for a chaotic adulthood. I know that getting to a place of acceptance of our narc parent didn’t come easy, it came after times of having hope, all to just get hurt and re-triggered again. I went no contact 3 years ago when I was 33. My 3 brothers chalks it up to my dad being a jerk as times. I don’t think that our brothers will ever accept the truth. It’s a painful one and unless the truth benefits them to the extent that it has benefited us, they won’t ever consider it. Also, they didn’t receive the same treatment which means their perceptions and relationships with them arent like ours. Sadly, were the only ones who can really understand and comprehend our family dysfunction. On the bright side of all of this, we’re both targeted by narc parents because we possess qualities that they didn’t have nor understood. Having figured out who I am, I can recognize that you are also kind, tenacious, intelligent, compassionate, open minded, caring, thoughtful, respectful (just to name a few)
I am the scapegoat and the only girl in the family too. The boys will never get it because the abuse didn't happen to them. I feel like I was emotionally tortured by my narcissistic family. I have gone no contact. I need to heal myself from all of the emotional abuse and gaslighting I had to endure. No one in the family understands me at all. They just want me to continue in my scapegoated role since it's safe and convient for them. I am finding my own peace without them. I hope you find joy and peace too!💟
❤️
This is me 👆I had to go NC with my 2 brothers also after a lifetime of her narc triangulation
Hi do all Narc parents make up to have one girl for their service?? I too have 2 brothers, they don’t wanna talk to me if I complain about my N Mom under the name of religion = Honor The Parents... yes I’m 39 and in pain about the situation.. my niece & nephews view have been told and saw my parents angry at me in Public..... they also look at me like the problem NO MATTER HOW MANY GIFTS OR COOKING FOOD, My parents always come up nervous with me very painful totally understand all of you👍🏻😍
Parent having no curiosity about me; that was the truth I never knew how to describe; thank you!! I am 54 years old and that is a deep, forgotten wound that those words just ripped open! I just knew mom didn't ask me any questions, she was the only one talking. I just realized she forced that listener trait on me and that's who I have been my whole life! But, sometimes I'm realizing I have things I want to say. All my life I have taken pride for thinking I was a good listener; really happened is I let other people take over every conversation because I didn't matter. My eyes and heart have really been opened today, and I realize I still have a ton of things to work on damnit!! But these are the deep-seated original pains that I really need to go through and work on and it will really change the way I live my life!! So I'm happy and I'm sad; thank you so much Jay! ❤
My mother intentionally called me sissy when I was 12y trying to help her with her chores
Don't tell me the narc doesn't do this on purpose. They know what they are doing, it's not unconscious! They are evil! PURE EVIL!
@Lucy 2021 Exactly
I've experienced this in my family and then my family members started believing in what my father said bout me growing up so then they all took turns in verbally mentally abusing me little by little with different saying and sarcastic humor etc
One problem I had was being the recipient of the assertion that I was mentally ill/ crazy and that my mother was going to take me to a psychiatrist, have me "locked up," etc. My father, as a flying monkey. Actively agreed with her at times. This narrative continued to a lesser degree ( I learned not to piteously argue against these claims at a certain point (late adolescence, I believe) but nevertheless the basic assertion remained a part of the family narrative about me (as well as my mother) until the year she died ( I was 74 years old at the time) and could be easily re-activated by any verbal opposition on my part. My brother continued this tradition up to the present although he may have quietly dropped it.
The good part is I could not truly identified with the assertion that I was mentally ill without losing myself and so I had to resist this with whatever power I had within myself. Arguing against verbally only made it entrenched. I now have 4.college degrees including an MS in counselling psychology and a PhD in organizational psychology and have the complete works of both Freud and Jung as well as numerous other classics in psychology. I am thoroughly aware that I am not mentally ill. Besides, I always have checked.out as normal on several standard diagnostic tests like the MMPI. Lol.
My mom has been convincing the school I am slow or handicapped but before I started school she was going to tell them that I am violent,disruptive and disrespectful.She can't even keep her lies in order.Now I have been reaching out to them for help like I have been since I was 8 and many other adults have tried to help me get out since before I moved in with my mom and munchausen by proxy started the summer of 2016 when I was 10.The first false diagnoses was autism something you have to be born with unless you get it from a vaccines.then in 2018 they told her I am not autistic but she still drags it along when I called her out at an appointment for still dragging it along then she was like "well they said social pragmatic disorder since autism wasn't right".But if course she still drags it along after that recent event which I have a video of.But I moves back in with her at age 12 and finally started fighting back after getting tired of physical and verbal abuse she did the crazy call and got 15+ false diagnoses put on me within a year.the plus is because I have counted 15 but she brings up ones I never hears about all the time so the full amount is unknown.
you have always been more than enough ! Not forgetting that truth is healing
9:55 so true. fear of being abandoned force the child to display "required" characteristics.
I love these videos!... One of the symptoms of this condition of being the family scapegoat, which symptom I may or may not have heard described on this channel (the BEST Scapegoat Channel on youtube!), is that people don't take you seriously, or don't hear what you say, something like that. This is a chronic situation in my life. Often as an employee I share what I think is valid and important information, only to be completely disregarded. Later it turns out that I was correct and they have a much bigger problem on their hands, which makes them angry on two accounts. (One time it was a huge legal battle that could have easily been avoided!) This happens so frequently that I just expect it, but I do not know how to change it. First I intended to post here just to request that a video be devoted to this topic. I inadvertently stumbled across my hypothesis a minute later when I encountered an article about how psychopaths can be recognized by their patterns of speech. Is there a characteristic pattern of speech for the Scapegoat? Is it my pattern of speech that causes people to disregard what I say? If it is, who has the training program to help me change it?......Now I remember a friend of mine giving me a book on "assertiveness training". Ironic, in as that our friendship fractured over the fact that he would never listen to what I had to say, but just wanted me there for his Narcissistic supply.
This is totally how I feel especially after hats my guidance counselor did earlier which has happened more than once.
I have a video about it.
you only can take care of yourself, not others, You can control Nobody except yourself
Years ago I was reading books on "Assertiveness". I am not the assertive type. The book was okay, but towards the ending it said something to the effect that if someone finds herself to be in a situation where she has to too frequently "assert" herself - that is not a good situation for her. That was a light bulb moment for me - though painful. Ended the untenable relationship within the year.
With family it is far more difficult .. working on it.
Its all about my childhood. Im so surprised to hear it. She would run into my room but I didn't want to hear her accusations and tried to push her back behind the door, she would scream and call my dad and he would come running with a belt and ... That was terrible. Thank you! Thank you! I have so much support from your videos
I feel heard listening to your channel.
Unfortunately I have difficulty trusting, due to the performance only relationship with parents. Thank you for this.
Don't worry Difficulty trusting is not a bad thing it kinda indicated your strong discernment im still going through this myself but I realize it's nothing to worry about
You are excellent in your explanations, it is totally precise.
OMG the dishwasher! Sounds painfully familiar
I've suffered narcissist abuse at around 17-18 years old through a friendship that lasted 2 years. Still got all the crap of it and 10 years later I'm still stuck ....
my narcissists mom and family members looked at me never existing, they only need label a pouching bag, a slave.. for real me, never existing
Boy, that clip brought back memories.
For sure.
The point when you refer to the projection of the Narc not quite sitting right with the child, it seems to me that at that pointn while the childs sense of self is pushed so far back, importantly it is not completely annihilated, the resulting tension causes a terrible lack of self esteem and also the irrational hope in the child that the true but now crushed and pushed back self will someday be seen, and loved and valued etc.in childhood this deep hope is naturally wished from the parent, but transfers in adulthood to other hopeless relationships. In childhood this now small part of self that continues to exist is only brought out with great courage and only occasionally as the feeling for potential annihilation and being totally wrong or unacceptable is very overwhelming. This small and pushed back part of the self continues to exist beneath everything and this is important as once accessed, most likely later in adulthood when it is safer to do or when the fall out really hits home and it must be done for survival, when this part is accessed and allowed to be brought out through knowledge and awareness, it is allowed to then grow, this is when the dysfunctional oppression can be pushed back out. The real self pushes out the fake insertions of the Narc. I think this is what we can see in all those who are on the healing path. So there is great hope. Wholeness is possible. You will never change the Narc but it is entirely possible to neutralise and push out the imposed psychological oppression and heal. Awareness is key, once you know what you didnt know before, you cannot unknow it and this is what protects for the future. I think too it's important to remember that not all psychological abuse is loud and overt, and that oftentimes it comes via an overbearing, intense and power based position where there is a lot of silence and shorter sentences as well as the type of scenario depicted in the clip. Thank you for this very thought provoking video, your work will carry healing that will last to countless hurt and wounded and make all the difference in many many lives.
🙏
Those descriptions brought back memories, that was my mother
I may jumping the gun here but just occurred to me that.. if I stop blaming my self, if I break the chain system create an extreme fear. Because is no use to believe my family will change. But if I change i won't be of use for them any more. Won't change my life or wounds to be heal... but will confirmed all the years of hearing that I am unlovable, unworthy. Feel heartbreaking to realise yesterday I was a supply ... now I am not even that as I am sure they find another
Ame T, I know how you feel. The loss of wasted years and energy spent in an effort to be seen and understood is excruciating. The grief over lost hopes and dreams and a comforting backstory and family is deadening at times and overwhelming at other times. The fear of recrimination and backlash for leaving family behind and going no contact is up front and terrifying when we feel lack of confidence. The anger of feeling that I gave up my life to help them, and they can just move onto someone else is huge. As Dr Ramani says, we are nothing more than a coffee-maker to them. If we work, we have fulfilled their need. If we don't, they will be upset and will just replace us with another coffee-maker. We're just an object that provides a service they need.
However, we can now look at the positive side of this knowledge Now we get to learn about ourselves, grow, be creative, find out who we are, and no longer be tethered to what they demand of us - to be nothing, to be unseen, to be their whipping board or coffee-maker. We get to start a new life. Yes, it is painful, and we feel behind and will never reach our full-potential. But, we can't look at that. We have to stay in this moment and breathe in the new life we've been given. Anything is better than what we had before we understood narcissism, narcissistic abuse, and pathological projective identification. Now we can look forward to creating healthy relationships with people who see us and respect us.
I urge everyone to look into somatic experiencing and other methods to help us claim our authentic selves. I just now found out about it, and it is already helping me. Jay Reid here on his channel is a very stabilizing source for me, too. I am looking into getting therapy from someone (don't know where or with who, yet), and I think anyone that works with Jay would be in good hands.
Hello Jay.
I am 72yo Grannie Cyndy from South Australia. Having just watched this video I am really amazed. You have described my mother's treatment of me in my long gone childhood. Selfish was my accusation too. She would berate me over a very minor thing, leaving me a sobbing mess filled with shame. Then I had to wait in my room for my dad to come home so that she could tell him about it. He'd then come in and yell at me. I used to actually wet myself. After he'd finished, she'd come back in and demand to know why did I always upset my father.
A little later, as the family was ready to eat dinmer, she would call me in. I honestly would slink in like a dog, too awful to deserve to be fed. And I could barely swallow any food as they chatted away as though I wasn't unhappy at all. There was no comfort.
Thankyou so much for the work that you do. You are a blessing.
This Boys Life was one of the first movies that resonated with me as a young man after I’d moved out on my own. That scene played out over and over and over again in my childhood, except that it always escalated to getting the shit beat out of me and my mom never ever stepped in or said a word other than, “it’s for your own good” while I was sobbing uncontrollably after being hit. If you want the opposite end of the life spectrum I’d recommend Paul Schrader’s movie Affliction with Nick Nolte.
Wow! That video clip at the end made the anger rise up in me. What a mean bully and that poor kid getting the blame for everything. I haven’t seen this movie but it demonstrates the family dynamic really well.
I saw the movie years ago and remember that it was based on a true story. At the end it says who Toby the man is. He is Tobias, a writer.
Yea it does.
Your story reminded me of life with my mother. Besides her keeping her home like a museum, and micromanaging everything you touch in her home, I happen to be dyslexic so my depth perception and handy skills are remarkably different. She picked up on this difference and used it as evidence that i dont try very hard and that was extrapolated to include my every endeavor.
My Mum wouldn't let me wash the dishes because I could never do a decent job apparently. Had to check and re-wash some usually. Till this day I take ages to ensure every microbe of soap is washed off. Everytime I tried to learn to cook for myself she would passively agressively become angry that I dare mess up the kitchen and try to learn to cook. I left there not knowing how to boil an egg. Just like my Mum when she left home.
@@mtgoxwall That is painful. Your Mom was in pain, too.
Thank you for your thoughtful, thorough & easily digestible shared wisdom 🙂❣️
Thank you for help me to understand it..
I had to watch it twice to let it sink in..
Wow! Wonderful! Thank you!
Unbearable egotistical narcissists, fragile arrangement. The trauma affects an indiviual for many years if untreated. Seeking therapy is key to recovery, thank you for sharing Dr Jay, great content & videos.
Wow what an amazing description - like being back there - and it makes so much sense. Thank you for your clear explaination.
are there studies about suicide tendencies from kids of narcissistic parents?
I too would like to know.
It’s sad cause I know how the guy in the story feels . Being a black gay man In an urban community your not taught to be yourself if being yourself is shameful to the parents image.. some of the generational traditions or so baberic . But you thinks it’s okay cause everyone around you is raised the same way so it’s seems normal. Now I’m in therapy dealing with all the childhood traumas so I can heal and not be in another narcissistic romantic relationship
Keep working on you and loving you. Stay aware of what is going on around you and good luck. You are worth it!
I'm happy if my boys load the dishwasher without whining and complaining. If they do it correctly I'm thrilled. So glad I'm not a narcissistic parent. My parents on the other hand...
Ppi is one factor but another reason a narcissistic mother calls her adolescent child selfish could be about him growing up as an independent being and her feeling that she is losing control/supply + fear of abandon.
I agree 100% didn't realise it till now they want control & a sombe.
The scene from the movie This Boy's Life is more positive than what many of us experienced in that 1) there were witnesses, 2) someone (the brother) spoke up for him and 3) there was another parent to appeal to (even though she did not actively support him). Most real-life victims would not have talked back to the father the way Leonardo DiCaprio did in the movie. They would not have recognized the truth, much less called him out on it. Movies have to show it that way to give the audience cues, but in real life, the suffering happens in a more unconscious--and painful--way.
I agree.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My birth mother told me that all I talked about was myself I shut down, it was an awful form of abuse I was not listened to or heard and it continued with all my relationships with narcissists.
Projective identification....is it possible to get this to end? It's crazy making!
You can't change other people.
@@z1z2z3z If a narcissist can change you, you can absolutely change other people.
This is the exact description of my mother. For so many years I thought that this is just how all relationships are, and that it is just normal parenting. Of course I tried for a very long time to avoid all relationships almost, not understanding why and what was wrong with me as they seemd easy for other people (also because she convinced me that I was so bad, selfish, etc, among other "reasons" because when I was two years old I wasn't taking "good care" of my one years old younger brother. I realized only a few years ago that this is the most ridiculus accusation that I have ever heard in my life! So I also started questioning all the other untrue ones). Than I saw in movies and in some friends's houses that it is not the case, however I found myself in a relationship with domestic violence (fortunately I escaped) and now here I am, trying to figure everything out, with a lot of difficulties. Thank you 🙏
I’m not sure I understand. My mother coerced me to kill my self a lot. I endured it, believed it and constantly acted on it, spending three decades in emergency rooms from suicide attempts and psychiatric hospitals in between. Did she hate herself that much? Did she believe that she didn’t deserve to live? I thought she was embarrassed about me even though I had everything going for me until I had the first of two severe eye injuries and became blind in one eye with nerve damage to my face. She really turned on me when I was sick or injured.
I can see the projective identification more with my father who also scapegoated me. I think he felt inadequate in different ways and was determined to make me feel that way with his merciless bullying of me. I just can’t understand why a mother would want her kid to die except she did say she had children because she wanted someone to take care of her when she was older.
I hope you are well and safe. Please keep yourself self- no matter what.
What happens when therqphist acts out, buys into this projective identification as well? Like join abuse, fail to resist joining/aligning with/being engulfed in split off feelings of narcsiists.
Wrong therapist. Try again.
Critical question.
@@fancynancylucille you don’t always know when you’re in “the thick of it” with the therapist. 4 full years only stopped when she took “time out to pursue further studies” 10 years later I’m unraveling this.
I’m glad I’m here now.
Your explanation of this is so accurate! Thanks for the video.
I want to ask something. I have a boss now who does pathological projective identification on me, like my parents. Is it possible I am sub-consciously continuing to attract abuse? I broke down and am now starting to look for another job.
But if really is that, then how do I shift that? At present, I almost feel it's not in my control, though I have repeatedly got bosses who also make me feel small and invalidated, like my father does.
I dont think so! I read somewhere that 50 percent of people have had to leave a job due to a difficult boss. There are just a ton of narcissists out there they are unavoidable!
Victims of narcissistic abuse definitely attract narcissists. The reason is because that type of relationship feels familiar. You know what you're getting. And, because you already don't feel you deserve better.
It's really important to get help and learn how this is impacting you in order to keep narcissists out of your life - or the pattern will repeat over and over and over again in every relationship in your life.
I watch many CZcams channels on the topic, including this one with Jay Reid and others with Dr Ramani, Deb Dana, Peter Levine, Stephen Porges, and more. I keep watching these videos to gain insight and education, and am now looking into Polyvagal Theory and Somatic Experiencing (SE) to get help with dealing with my narcissistic trauma and abuses.
@@free2beme773 I think that can be true for some people. In my case when I met my ex husband he reminded me of my narcissistic mother. Because I was into buddhism at the time I figured I'd have to force myself to get along with him because they stress respect for the mother "no matter what ". When I got a divorce I reverted back to roman Catholicism and christianity and no longer have this problem. I've been single though for 8 years now and am looking to date but there is just a huge number of narcissistic men at least in my age group on the dating scene. I am by no means going to cave in to them but the sheer quantity is unbelievable. I might just die single I guess. And I do feel women are over pathologized very often for just trying to date.
@@m.pixley8413 I think you are not alone in your plight by any means. Dr Ramani says that the numbers of narcissists are increasing dramatically. And, I agree that it is better to be alone than to get into a relationship with someone who invalidates or abuses us in any way. Yet, the polyvagal theory talks about how much we need to co-regulate as much as we need to self-regulate. So, I hope we can all find healthy people who want to learn to relate in healthy ways that respect each other. Good luck on that front.
@@m.pixley8413 How are you handling the Catholic Church? I went back, and the first thing I get is , "Oh, you're divorced? Well, we accept you anyway, but you can never get married again." WTF! I wasn't married in a church, so I think it doesn't count. I would just have to confess that I was "living in sin". I just go for the service. The rest of it is useless to me.
Glad you are explaining Projective Identification. The pressure to identify and conform to what the parent is projecting. Take on what you are being told you are - yes. Defiance in adulthood to their rules and projections is so important. I think we have accept that iit may anger the parent but we have to remain defiant to heal.
I agree that we do have to remain defiant to heal.
Healings Words. Thank you;-)
All proj. Identification is very low functioning defense with splitting based defenses( idealization , devaluation) along with a very primitive denial that is so intense. The public persona of being all giving and helpful to others and behind closed doors there is a different persona. One of criticizing the child. He own judgments about herself are presented here. People who blame others are often very critical of themselves , which they can't tolerate so projection is used to place these feelings as going on within the child. So there are very primitive defenses used by these patients (narcissists). Notice the way the dishwasher is loaded depicts the childs view of the world and reactions to the people in the world. So the mother is using extreme denial of their own stuff. Project it on to tbe kid. If the child didn't accept the projection the mother would be forced to hold on to this negative stuff. And they decompensate and become very neurotic- phobic hypochondriacal, and often a you down me wrong attitude of the mother that reeks of a paranoid quality.
Could you do a video on narcissistic in-laws/grandparents?
Thank you.
Damn that scene was my whole childhood i woild hear rhis at night from my room and in person
Why can’t the narcissist just be a narcissist? Why do they have to abuse the innocent??
Because then they won’t be narcs. Wolves need to prey and eat...
Yes, prey for power over and control totally - still we can never be worthy for less abuse.
They don’t operate from the source of life, known as God to some. They have to take other people’s energy to survive. Narcissistic abuse is about stealing another’s energy (their soul) . They’re addicts, no different than a junkie or an alcoholic. People give them their temporary fix. If they can make the victim feel lower they feel higher, more superior in their minds. They need people to feed off of.
Fantastic description of pathological projective identification. Very eye opening. That movie scene really drives the point home on everything you said.
Very timely. I wasted a lot of time wondering what I did to make my father hate me before I realized it was my existence. When I saw This Boys Life for the first time, I saw my father and I, only my older brother never stood up for me. They're the same.
Nice explanation of proj. Id. So many people get it wrong. Boundaries and judgment, insight agnosoagnosia on the part of the mother. He was definitely scapgoated.
Great video! Very insightful.
That is a brilliant presentation, so helpful too. Thank you so much, Dr Reid.
I was that young boy myself, once, but a girl. I can see how all these processes unfolded. I can relate to how artificial the pathological identification feels and yet how one is compelled to accept what is imposed upon us as a child.
In my case, I feel as though I never believed my mother's accusations. Very young, I remember being startled, and resentful of her yelling. My reasoning brain got it. But in the affect part, it was chaos. Somehow, I forged a negative self-image : I felt responsible for this state of affairs, may be. If she was behaving this way, so cruelly negative and always accusing me of something, I probably felt it was my fault. She called me selfish all the time and at the same time, she loathed my altruistic idealist temperament which manifested very early on apparently, to her dismay.
So which one was it ? Well, she felt it was unbelievable that I could care so much about anyone or anything besides HER !!! So yes, selfish I was, of course.
All my life I felt some guilt gnawing at me, whenever I helped someone, did some thing for someone else, for causes and associations, anything at all...To this day, I hide what I do, I am afraid I will be blamed or taken for a fool while I am perfectly certain that I am lucky to care about many things in this world and appreciate so much that we are many to do so.
This kind of thing messes you up completely : it creates confusion about who you are and what's right or wrong. You feel that whenever you are yourself, you're hurting someone. This follows you in other relationships. Unconsciously, you are convinced that you will cause the whole thing to fall apart.
In the beginning of the relationship, you try to be everything the other wants you to be, or you think he wants you to be and then, as soon as you think it's time to open up, you get so scared that you just run away for your life ! You probably imagine that either you'll make him angry and disappointed and want to abandon you, or that you will have to continue being "perfect" or be what he wants you to be, and you run away even faster!
I am 35 and I thought my mother would finally stop the rage storms for me. But she didn’t and I can not tolerate it at this state of my life. Now it is very hard to find a way to still be somehow in my life, a way that is not so poisonous to me.
That was Spot on! Thank you.
Thank you for your work
Exactly, thank you!!
just the question i was trying to understand the answer to.. nice
This presentation's read like a play! Poor guy left with some major trust issues major bonding issues so sad I know I'm the scapegoat I got some of this from my mom as well but as I get to understand but as I grow to understand these Dynamics I find myself forgiving her and being a little more forgiving of myself that's the hardest part.
Got to wonder what Terry's mom's life upbringing was like this is often multi-generational.
No they say responsibility is a cure for mental illness is there any way to impart responsibility or accountability to/ from the narcissist? How about getting their heads around the natural laws of cause and effect? Opening the mind and discovering how good awareness/ BEING AWAKE can feel? Compassion fits in here.
This is especially important to me right now since my mother is in her final stretch.
This is powerful
Great content 👍
Glad you think so!
Obliterated every single day for decades.
Soul Murder
My person used a catfished photo of his "son." Couldn't be more blatantly deceptive.
Excellent
I noticed with my therapist, when she started asking questions that suggested specific intentions that were not mine, I was reminded of my mother. I did not agree, but I did not try to defend myself or explain why she was wrong. Once someone has decided why I did something or what they think happened, I distance myself. I stop sharing.
Am I supposed to defend myself?? Because it feels like baiting.
I told another therapist in the same practice something that happened that I hadn't been able to share with my regular therapist (she had said, "I had to get a PFA when I was getting a divorce, too." So I didn't tell her what happened to get the PFA.) And I noticed during my next visit, my primary therapist said something about playing devil's advocate. Shutting me down, labeling my intentions, is not playing devil's advocate, it is unsafe. I am not going to defend myself against totally unfounded accusations, before the person even bothered to ask me. So I shut my mouth.
I'm not sure how a healthy person would respond to that sort of crazy making. Making accusations of someone's inner world is something that can never be proven or disproven to them, because it's within an other, so there is no convincing them.
I was really disappointed when I had to withdraw from my main therapist, but I don't know how to address it with her in a meaningful way. With the power dynamic it's tricky. I need my meds.
There was no seeking to understand. No open questions asked, before I was told what my intentions were. With both my mom and this therapist.
With the therapist situation, she had access to data about me that I did not have. The confusion and fear on my face, when she revealed this information to me, meant nothing to her. I suppose she thought I was upset that I was being called out on it. She had totally assumed I already knew. She had also pre-determined what that data meant, and there was no other story that was allowed. So I didn't tell her. I let her believe the shitty things about me that she wanted to believe; she was not open to other possibilities and didn't give me the opportunity.
If someone doesn't give us the space to answer before they decide for themselves what our truth "must be," is there ever a possibility that they would hear us out?? What are the indicators that we have a legitimate chance of correcting someone's warped assumptions about us?
My therapy has become less and less relevant as the months pass. Because I'll answer her questions, and I won't lie, but she doesn't see me as I am; I don't bother to correct her.
What do I do when people do this? When the person isn't my mother or immediate family? What about if a partner does this? It has happened to me all my life. Is this something that is common in the "normal" world? When someone does this, can I call them out on not being open to my reality?
Could you perhaps do a video on advice for adult children who had both parents as narcissist parents? (In my case, 1 introverted and the other extroverted.) I have told them both after 2 years of going back and forth - trying to establish a connection, but never getting a 'sorry' out of them, or even a change of behaviour - that I can no longer see them for self-preservation. I am now trying to put myself first but this is so hard. The weight of the guilt of turning my back to my own parents is killing me; I feel so guilty for trying to live my life and discover myself. I want to, but the feeling is weighing me down so much. Please give me any advice on this.
I too am going through this as I have walked away from both parents as well and am experiencing that painful crushing guilt.
Can an adult narcissist recover their self worth through love or is it all over for them?
Definitely all over for me...I never had a shot and not trying to prove crap to myself anymore.
@@winterqueenkel But you are not the Narcissist, correct? I feel the same way.
@@fancynancylucille no my mom is a very cruel narcissist. I was born to be hated...I gave up. Once you hit true hopelessness, you are very sad everyday but you don't feel like you have to live for anyone. I may be completely alone on this earth but I'm safe.
@@winterqueenkel I too wonder if it is all over for me as well.
I was telling my beigbhor that my uncle got ran over split in half by a train on the way to work
..back in the say they hopped trains. Its a wonder that I trust myself to drive.I use to imagine what itbqoukd feel like to gave two more uncles to protect me
I walked out on this movie. So harsh to watch. Painful.😢 (Which now with understanding about how the narcissist targets the child that has the qualities she wants - in my case, an "altruistic narcissist mother" - makes a lot of sense. Still though...)
Jay good at movies too😂
Hi jay
Also, I am getting very tired of the way the Narcissists are getting such ill-treatment all over the internet. These people are by definition people who are suffering and do not know how to handle the pain. I met a person whose son went to a psychotherapist ( at last, and really needing help). This idiot of a therapist told the man that he is a Narcissist, which he is, but so what? He needs help, too. The young man was so hurt at being diagnosed as that thing which is being painted all over the internet as a "MONSTER" that everyone needs to avoid, that he did not go back and refuses to see another therapist. How is this helping society? Apparently, I am a "covert Narcissist". When I read the symptoms, I could cry because of the way it describes the way I feel inside and how I struggle to make do. But I got this way because of SEVERE NARCISSISTIC ABUSE at the hands of my Dad and the family. It's not my fault!!!!! I am just a broken person with abundant gifts that I have not been able to share and derive benefit thereby, because my abusive family took that ability away. I would like to be successful. But because I think about being successful without manifesting it in outer life, I am "grandiose"! Why did my family try to suppress me? Why, when I asked for music lessons, did my father say "Get those pipe dreams out of your head. You will work in a factory like everyone else"? When I said I wanted to go to college, he said, "Over my dead body - only sluts go to college." I did manage to get an education. I have become a fairly good musician. But I am terrified to get out there. My sensitivity to criticism is so severe because I had already received more than a lifetime of undeserved criticism long before I had graduated from high school. Not to mention the molestation and beatings. (I've read things about the kids with ADHD having received so much negative feedback by the time they reach school age that they feel they can't do anything right.) So all you freakin' psychological professionals out there need to broaden your perspectives and stop painting any human beings as if they are undeserving of any compassion, the way you do the Narcissists!
Narcissists have chosen to be self servers and to put themselves before anyone else. They have no empathy for the hell they create for others. They are doing the devils work for him right here on earth. Demons are operating them since they’ve chosen ego over the source of love and life. If you give them compassion they’ll drain even MORE of your vital life energy. They’re here to kill, steal and destroy. Best to leave them alone and just maybe they’ll hit a bottom and realize that they’re responsible for themselves.
You're right, narcissists do deserve empathy and they need help, too. I think the therapist made a mistake in telling his patient he was a narcissist, for all the reasons you mention. I'm guessing that therapy for narcissists probably resembles therapy for their victims in that they need to acknowledge how THEY were treated as children.
Is the projective identification unconscious.. or intentional
I think it depends on the person but regardless, it is abuse. It is psychologically damaging and unhealthy to be around.
@@z1z2z3z 🙏❤️
Still listening. There are lots of video’s 👍 it would not be difficult to comment on every one of them. A lot of memories are coming to surface (i lost a lot of my past memories), giving other roads to consider, in the healing process.
🥹 👍 💜 TNKS