Asking if you felt loved by your narcissistic abuser
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- čas přidán 16. 10. 2021
- In the course of coming to terms with how one was treated as a child a common refrain is often ‘my parent definitely loved me’. Sometimes in session, as we work a little further the question arises of whether the person felt loved by this parent. This question is sometimes met with pause or self-recrimination for being too sensitive to not look past the “occasional” bouts of emotional, verbal, or physical abuse. But where we often arrive at is that although the parent claimed to have loved the person up and down the survivor does not have the experience of feeling loved by that parent. Often, they have had to think there is something wrong with themselves for not feeling this way until it becomes safe to look at why they did not feel loved in the first place.
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Something I realized lately is that the love I feel for my parents is tied to guilt, so I think I only learned to experience love through experiencing guilt.
Same.
Don't love them!!! They dont love you
Thank you! Very eye opening perspective! ❤
very interesting realization, helped me! thanks.
My life 100%. I have myself now but no one else. No other humans. Hard but safe.
That's my life too. Hard is an understatement.
Me too. I have friends but I am lone after being estranged by my narc family. It was hard at first, but now I’m grateful they are out of my life. Life is hard alone, but worth it to be rid of toxic people.
Same here. I know I must face my fear and observe potential friends over time and hopefully be willing to give some trust to. There is no growth in isolation as safe as it might be. Distortions breed without human relationships. We become vulnerable to odd paranoid thinking and behavior in general. They say “ the best revenge is living well” …… i am pretty certain my self imposed solitary confinement , as peaceful as it is many moments……. is not sustainable to keep a human being “ well”. Bless this community . Thank you Jay♥️🌎♥️
I'm completely alone together with my autistic son. With my son, I feel I can exchange love for the first time in my life. But life is very very hard
@@annenoir9409 pretty similar. A girl…
Hard going but more peaceful
I remember telling my mom I loved her but felt so empty inside. I have so many mixed emotions when it comes to my parents. I think I was in love with the idea of parents instead of seeing them for who they are. Coming to that realization is sad. I never felt loved as a kid and even now as an adult.
❤
🤗
Same. I had to 'think' that they are potentially loving... this is the story I had to beleive... And waited for it to happen... I am 55 now, the situation/'releationship' is still more or less the same. They decided to serve/bond with/support my ex narc partner. It's sad. I don't think I am grasping the whole reality of it yet.
But... am aware now, my eyes are open and I am healing, growing, building healthy connections with other, sencere, emapatic People. 😃
You don't move on so that the narcissist can finally realize what they lost by mistreating you so severely and remorselessly and miss you terribly and live a half life full of regret and sorrow staring at pictures of you when they had you.
You move on so YOU can finally realize how much they are missing out on how awesome you truly are and have ALWAYS been.
And the FARTHER you get away from narcissists, the EASIER it is to see how simply wonderful you are. You ARE a DIAMOND💎.
Excellent point. I started, years ago, with the idea that 'if this is love, I can do without.' That eventually led to, 'my parents DIDN'T love me.' From there, I reached what I am fairly sure is the truth. They INTENDED to love me, but they were incapable of loving their kids. I thought of it as being like me with golf. I could go onto the course with every intention of playing golf well, but since I don't have the skills, I'll play a disastrous game. For parents, good intentions aren't enough, because it's the parents' actions and attitudes that come through to the child.
Thank you
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
So sadly true. Heartbreaking.
I think if I intended to play a good game of golf I'd keep applying myself and trying to get better at the skill. I think parents with low skills have low skills because they don't intend to do well, they are delusionally thinking they already do well - so they never apply themselves and improve their skills (because they are the 'best')
@@cairosilver2932 I can't argue. It's 'I assume I am a good parent,' rather than, 'I intend to be a good parent.' Yet there was also some intention involved, and a lot of ignorance about what good parenting is. A lot of the research that has given me understanding of healthy relationships was only being done when I was born; it was maybe being published, but far from being available to the general public. I'm not saying my parents would have been open to it--I don't think they would have been--but it also wasn't available. Since they'd had lousy parenting, how could they have known to do differently?
At 28 years old, when I was driving to my dad my gut feelings told me "I hate him" and I felt so bad for feeling that. But then I realized my dad is a grandiose narcissist and I had been abused by him throughout all my life hence why I felt worthless and attracted people who was using me since I saw myself as unworthy of love. 1 month later I went no contact with him, cut out with my user friends and romantic partner. My whole world fell a part, but now building a new one. At the start it felt like a whole train ran over me in my mind. Now as time passes it feels hopeful, it feel free to rebuild myself. Thank you for your video
You go for it! That's AMAZING! I'm doing something similar here. The falling apart bit isn't so fun but I'm starting to get glimpses of a new future, a future where no one abuses me and I am surrounded by safe loving people. I think that's your future too!
@@gracesagud5773 Thank you Grace, wishing you all the best! The best is yet to come xo
I did that 2 years ago, it gets so much better over time and you wont believe how life will feel like after a while. Im astonished that there was this much joy and normality in life and i was so deprived of it.
Exactly.
There is sooooo much peace and joy now...! 😊
@@irenahabe2855 Truly feels like heaven now, so worth it! Much love and blessings to you Irena ❤
It's always worth thinking about how your narcissistic parent treated you, and then asking yourself if you would do the same thing to someone else. The answer is invariably no. It's more than an absence of love, it's an absence of humanity. My mother did things to me I wouldn't do to a stray dog (or any living creature). I am sure many people here are the same.
Also my mother's voice is so well internalised in my head that even as I'm watching this I can hear her insistent: Well! What about you! Remember when YOU xxxx????
And the point is, I was a child. My mother not only didn't love me, but she also expected me to function as a well adjusted adult. She expected me to be more emotionally mature than herself, and make her feel better for her regret that she chose to be a mother.
Did I feel loved? Not for one second in forty-four years.
This is so true for me aswell.
It wasnt until I worked in a kindergarden for a while, that I truly realized what Id been through, because it became so clear I could NEVER treat a child as my parents treated me, and if someone did at the kindergarden, police would be called emmiedietly.
So that was a big wake up.
Oh, I can hear her voice on mine sometimes. When I try to affirm myself by saying "Its all gonna be ok" or something I can hear her passive agressiveness, in my own voice, its so disturbing ....
Exactly, she aspected me to be more mature then her from age 6.... like b1tch u crazy 😭 it really shows how insane they are.
Bless you 🌸❤❤❤
@@audhumbla6927 Thank you :)
I wish you health, healing, happiness... all the good things. If you recognise all this too, you must be on the journey to peace as well. 💗
@@nenasadie for sure, same to you, bless
100% same.
@@McLovinmybullie I hope you are doing better now ❤
No one touches jay in competence and interaction with survivors on here. I actually feel like I am in the room with a therapist he is so good I could not recommend him highly enough. I am currently saving to do his course and I cannot wait. Thank you so much for everything
Wow!!!you know exactly what goes on! I am 60 years old and I was my mom’s scapegoat all my life! I finally have started telling people how she really is,she went into a rage when she found out! I told her, I haven’t said anything that wasn’t the TRUTH!!!
Thank you so much for your videos they have changed my life and I look forward to doing your courses in the future!
Good for you! They hate hearing the truth. It feels good not to back down. Once, I didn't back down, my mom slowly started to admit that her husband choked me. Before that things like that "never happened".
@Anonymous human They think because they are old they are entitled to talk to and treat people how they want,but this is the reason you see the elderly whose family has walked away from them and they are alone....
now i realize why we blame ourselves for abuse because we don't want to admit our parents could hate us or lack love for us
@Anonymous human i don't get body shamed at all i try to lose weight and the second i tell my mom i have to watch what i'm eating all of a sudden she is making me the fattiest foods and making me cakes its food sabotage lol
I can remember at about the age of 7 or 8 , standing in front of my house, thinking, "why don't these people like me" ? (my parents) Also, when I finally decided to walk away for good, at age 40, I confronted them with the fact that I couldn't ever remember them telling me that they loved me. Their response was "They thought I would just know that they did. " Funny thing is with the way they answered, they never denied not telling me that they loved me.
I can relate. We walk away when we are ready and I'm glad you did. They won't change and their answer shows it.
they'll like you if you're a mini me or dont dare step out of line
You are strong. You are putting it behind you.
Heck NO!!! I feel HATED ☹️
I've told my parents that I dont feel loved by them and they say "you have to be CRAZY!", "your feeler is off!", "you cant feel my love because you're bitter!" "How can you even question it?!?" "You're not being honest!"
Meanwhile if I could describe the feeling I get from them it would be "we love you when you make us feel good and give us what we want." They would never admit that.
The truth is that love is what I have been giving to THEM. They are the ones demanding unconditional love from me as though I were the parent! They want me to justify and excuse their behaviors and give them second chances, they want me to see the good in them and mirror it back, they want me to show them endless empathy! They demand it! They didnt even give me those things when I was a small child! Now that I show dissaproval toward how they treat me they cant even pretend to love me so they just avoid me now and say it's my fault.
Oh my gosh, Jen! Your parents said exactly the same things my mother did! Do the whackos have a manual or something?!?!
You described So well what I feel about my parents. Their love for us is dependent on the love we show them, totally backwards. My parents taught me to that love is guilt, and must be earned by showing appreciation and doing what others expect of me.
this is partly why people rebel when people rebel they see how unconditional their parents love is, most parents will turn on you pretty quickly if you do a big F up i almost failed high school and i realized my parents will only give me their love back if i become a better student
Your not alone...
I always felt that i would be accepted (not loved, that is too much to hope for) if i just didn't cause any trouble. I have needed someone to talk to my whole life. If I tried to talk to my mom, she literally backed out of the room.
I always felt like my parents words of endearment were empty. I felt like life with my narcissistic family was all an act. Nothing felt genuine. I never felt loved by my toxic family.
I never heard words of endearment.
Me neither.
I was never told that I was loved. That is because I wasn’t loved. Love was not allowed.
No. I didn't feel loved. And I can not bring up a recollection of feeling I was loved, try as I might. I think the reason for this is that I wasn't loved, or, at best, only fleetingly.
Wait, my parents were supposed to say "I love you"...? Only time they said it was when asked why they hate me.
Im coming to understand that what i thought was love on my side was actually trauma bond. It felt like a sickening longing for my parents but it was never satisfied, even when they were there and pretended to love me back. It felt cold, empty, unreal. Its like thinking you're drinking water but feel constantly thirsty. I was trauma bonded to them. I didnt feel love towards them.
I appreciate this comment because it made a Bible verse make sense to me (John 4:-4).
Same
Never EVER felt loved and still don't. The duality that I've dealt with and still deal with is maddening!
❤ You are lived by God(your higher self)
*LOVED ❤❤❤❤
holy moly you perfectly described my husband's conundrum with his mom. as an only child he got nothing but confusion: the invalidating, belittling anger interchanged with over the top syrupy "you are my heart my love" displays. even as he, and then we, endured her tantrums periodically in our adulthood, we memory holed the bad stuff and stayed focused on the good times. and didn't wake up to the complete absence of real love until our own kids were too old for her razzle dazzle & started distancing from her. we had to make the decision, in our LATE FORTIES, to withstand her disapproval in order to respect our teenagers choices. she has discarded us & found new supply
Linda, great for your husband that you have his back and together are a team and open to listening to your kids. That breaks the cycle.
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 thank you for your kind words. People IRL don't tend to understand
I'm so glad he's validated now, must be such a weight off his shoulders
Thank you! I still don't know what is what. It's so hard to accuse ones parents. I always protected them when in fact, they had issues that hurt us. It's hard to admit because I am old now and I would have to admit I'm not a perfect parent either. I am seeing this awful unloving behavior more in my oldest sibling. That is what lead me down this path. We all struggled with things because of neglect, probably more emotionally because our mother was overwhelmed with the children they had and she suffered from her own awful mother and bipolar disorder.
As a child, you carry so much shame from all of this, but I'm done with the invalidation. Done.
Working at 60 plus to not put myself through it anymore. So painful.
Luckily my children have love for me, so I did better than I received, but never perfect. I was in my own denial because I wanted a family of origin, but I never really had it in the first place. No child should have to move out at 15 years old. I'm proud that I survived and stayed married for 43 years. Not easy, not easy.
I hear you Ruby. You are done!
The word "Love" was never an issue in my family. I think it was the times when saying "I love you" to your children was considered 'stupid'. I have had my doubts and when I was about 10, I asked: "mum; do you love me?" "of course I do. Aren't parents SUPPOSED to love their children?". There were also no hugs or kisses, ever. Stupid. Maybe this is when I was a teenager I discovered boys a source of kisses and cuddles; that was all I wanted. They thought I was a 'prick tease'. I just wanted my childhood first.
I had to stop this video at about 3:00 because my mind was blown. Did I feel loved? No! Hell no! Never! Calling this a paradigm shift is almost an understatement. The earth moved. I couldn’t think or speak. I just paused it, closed my eyes, and heard, “I never felt loved” over and over in my head. My mom, my ex-husband, my current husband, they were all the same person. And I could ask myself, “But what do I think? How do I feel?” I can actually determine if something is acceptable based on how I feel?!?! Good lord…..
Yeah, it's a strong question. I think what I felt was 'Am I keeping up with what is wanted?' - if I felt that then I could feel relief. That wasn't feeling love.
@@cairosilver2932 Right?! I think I felt that later in marriages. If I was, “…keeping up with what is wanted…” or expected, then I thought life was ok and I was safe. But in relationship with a narcissist we are never safe and never loved.
Saying I love you, is just another form of gaslighting from them because they can't love. I'm happy my mother never told me she loved me. That would have been confusing af!
One of my parents has such a hard time saying I love you choking almost the 2 time they tried to mention it. The other one uses I love you all the time love bombing and gaslighting me. I've had to make amends with the phrase I love you to be able to express it and to be open to receive it. Same with my siblings. One has never said anything and the other uses it like it means nothing after doing something terrible to me they would say you know I love you with tears and everything in an attempt to buy my affection. Noted this phrase has cause severe confusion. To the day I still ask if I even know what that is and if I will ever be able to experience it.
I'm 59 years old & until last year my mother said she loves me however my sibling & father never once said it & it was clear. My "NOTher" mind fukd me bc I saw her joy when she finished telling me how she could never see me as my brothers EQUAL!
I was 7 years old when I told my biological mother that she hates me.
I used the words hate and not "you don't love me". I was right.
When a video stings because you suddenly realise you're on the rung on the ladder below people who had narcissists who insisted they loved their child. That rung below where narcissists who didn't ever say they they loved their child.
In some ways what hurts is the lack of effort put into the illusion. Some people had narcissist parents who put effort into the illusion? Wow.
I'm so sorry for your experience, Cairo. You did not deserve that. 😔
Yes, I wow your wow, my dad never even tried. I went no contact a year ago, no loss, no loss at all. Sad
I’m right there with you
My dad NEVER said he loved me
The topic of this video is one of the things I struggle with most. I just returned from a short visit with my parents, and they acted very loving and seemed to want me to feel at home. They do want me to move back to their state, so I believe on their best behavior. They have a giddy, overwhelming way of expressing their love.
I initially felt love, questioning my past confusion. But, then, I heard my dad trying to confuse my mom every morning. My mom complaining about my dad, but then saying how great he was. My mom kept bringing conversations back to her and how great we had it growing up. When my sister in law said" I'm so sorry you went through what you did" regarding my life with my ex, my mom interrupted her to talk about how it affected my her and my dad. When my parents were introducing us to their neighbors, I felt like they were using us to compete for the best parents. Everybody gushed over how great they were.
My brother didn't experience his childhood the way I did, so it's hard to talk to him about it. I did open up to my sister in law. Without disparaging my mom, she said she did see the things in my mom that I described. That was validating.
But, it was weird to feel comfortable for the most part, when I was not sure what to expect. I know I felt a false sense of security that, in the past has been known to leave me unprepared for a later bout of confusing behavior from them. Knowing what I know now, I try to take advantage of feeling comfortable, while knowing that if they change, it has nothing to do with me.
Possible love bombing/hoover-be very cautious-don’t make big life changing decisions without a get out plan based on this behaviour!!!!
@@estereatlikeyagranny9752So true, thanks. It feels like I'm being lulled into a false sense of security. To be saved by them means I am obligated to them
@@goldieh7121 hun-this is terrifying-please be very cautious-their ‘disease’ is cunning-they have an agenda-they do act when your weak or vunrable-protect yourself emotionally and psychologically and in a practical way-
@@goldieh7121 sweet-God-they cannot save you-they use,manipulate,if they are narcisstic WANT to stop you from achieving proper security and freedom-from achieving basic human needs-they may see you out of a bad situation but do not want to see you free to actually live or be happy-they are sick people and will want to see you flounder!!!!be safe-do not give them power or control over your life-if they want to give you cash,fine,or emotional support,fine-but not anything legal or restraints/control over your life in any way-
@@estereatlikeyagranny9752 Thanks ☺️. Yes, their pattern has been to help, want to do everything for me, then switch, tell me I'm taking advantage of them and threaten to take away their love and support when I don't "behave " how they want me to. I'm just aware now that this drive to think I need to be saved was conditioned into me and to understand why I struggle with it.
I have looked and searched for answers and self help books and media tirelessly and never felt I understood why I felt the way I felt growing up even til now that I’m a grown man until now, I’m in tears, you make perfect sense and once again hit the nail in the head. It all makes sense now and I know what to do but it’s so hard going against what we’ve been conditioned to do/be that it feels so lonely and empty I feel mourning as if someone has died in my life
Let me say that my "hypothetical" mother's name Margaret MARTIN, "hypothetical". And lets say she worked as a cancer nurse and a pediatric Nurse and fooled a WHOLE HOSPITAL that she was the cats meow was single handedly the MOST destructive force in my young life! Let's say "hypothetically" my father was IRISH MAFIA and he even killed people and or had them KILLED BUT he showed me MORE LOVE and compassion that HER! That was the dynamic of my childhood.
Wow! Hugs.
Thank you! I really struggle with this. Because growing up I didn't always feel loved and had all this hurt and anger toward my parents, but I was made to feel like I was crazy and/or ungrateful. I grew up thinking there was something deeply wrong with me, and I always avoided relationships because I knew deep down that I didn't enjoy what was supposedly love.
Not loved at all , but my adopted mother demanded love by bullying, physical violence and intimidation. Then wept like a child when she got the wrong reaction. It was confusing and I felt revulsion being near her.
They think love and control are the same things. It's a big ass lie.
I would love to know what happens among family members when the scapegoat leaves for good; to whom they throw their garbage to or if is there any chance that at least one member can see exactly what's going on.
For the clarity you bring me
I Am Grateful 🙏🏼 THANK YOU.
I'm grateful you're talking about this aspect of it--very well stated. Is it possible that, if you were raised by two parents completely incapable of real love but constantly calling abusive enmeshment "love," that one might not have developed the capacity to actually feel loved by anyone? My therapist has tried to help me identify ways I can feel loved, and it just doesn't seem that my brain has the wiring to receive love from others.
I've studied the love languages (and that was actually held over my head by one of my sisters, like when she said, "I NEED compliments to do my job, and if you don't give them to me willingly, I will FIND ways to get them out of you!"). I've studied boundaries extensively and incorporated so much of that into the ways I interact with people. I feel love *towards* my kids and have been working very hard to figure out how to be a healthier parent for them. I can identify things my husband and kids do to express their love toward me. I just don't "feel loved." I go looking through my brain to find what processes should be activated so I can have that internal experience, and it's like the wiring just isn't there.
no s t. I asked a friend why she got married. she asked if I had not heard of love. I thought hmmm, no. I had not a clue wtf that was.
btw, I now equate love with kindness, compassion, thoughtfulness, etc. I dont give a damn what people say. I watch what they do. love is an action verb way beyond buying shit and providing clothing
I totally get you. Love for me is tied to the icky feelings of enmeshment, guilt and expectations. My parents, ex husband and ex friend, constantly told me they loved me. But that love felt fragile, like they could take it back as soon as I did something they didn't like, or I didn't do something they wanted me to do. The closest I can come to feeling loved, is when I imagine myself as I would if I was my own child and how I would love that child. I think our parents expected us to prove our love to them, like their love for us was tied to how much we appreciated and loved them, which was totally backwards. I hope you are giving yourself credit for unconditionally loving your children, despite not having parents that showed you the same consideration. To me I think that is a huge accomplishment!
I relate 100%.
Yep relate-I don’t know what I’ve is-I don’t think I know what abuse is-especially emotional abuse!! I just get through it!
I'll tell you, my parents would not have insisted any such thing. All I heard was that they couldn't wait til I was 18 and could get out of there, but when I wanted to leave at 15 they wouldn't let me. And not like I was a 'problem', I had straight A's in school, and worked since I was 12. But if they had let me leave there would have been some suspicion as to their perfectness. In various discussions with my mother there has never been any remorse, or that they did their best, just "I wish I'd never had kids". I guess having kids saved the animals from being beaten so much..... grrr.
Ouch, that last statement is so painful. I see this exact scenario with a friend of my daughter and it's absolutely triggering. She wanted to live with us (or anyone else) at 16, yet the parents wouldn't let her go. She's the youngest of 5 and all the others were told to go by 18. Since I started doing my own work, I see abuse everywhere and wish I could save every kid out there. I hope she gets out soon, but they have her convinced she can't do any adult tasks at 19 and had her labeled with a disability. It's awful.
@@pelletier4432 Yes, watching kids be emotionally abused is hard. I once said something to a lady who tried to apologize for her daughter taking to long at a Starbucks. She was loudly berating her daughter as her daughter looked so defeated. When the lady apologized for her daughter, I looked at her daughter and calmly said something like " YOU are not doing anything wrong". The lady went off on me, threatened to come at me, while security tried to calm her down. Her daughter was mortified. I felt bad for creating a scene, but wanted her daughter to know her mother's behavior had nothing to do with her. Another time I was working at someone's house and the mother would be overboard asking her kids if they needed anything one minute, then the next proceeded to berate one of her sons in a very confusing manner. I could see the constant apprehension in every move the teen made. I didn't say anything, but tried to treat the teen respectfully when I had any interaction with him. I think the best we can do is treat the children of abusers respectfully, and let them know they matter, when we have a chance.
@@goldieh7121 Those are powerful examples of when it is okay to be a truth-teller. You rock!
@@pelletier4432 Thanks! I know we have to choose our battles, but, I just want to look every child experiencing emotional abuse in the eye and say " The problem isn't you, it's your parents". Some people say we don't know the whole story, but some behavior, especially coming from adults, is never okay.
@@goldieh7121 Absolutely 100%!
I would actually ask my mum as a 4 year old, “mum, do you love me?” She would raise her voice at me, “Of course I love you. I could tell you I love you until I’m blue in the face and you’d NEVER believe me.” I was diagnosed with ADD when I was 7 and she never told me, even though I would ask from time-to-time, “what’s wrong with me?” I always and still do feel defective (as a now 43 yo mum of 13 children).
My mum was more than willing to cement the idea in my mind that I couldn’t feel her love for me because I’m defective. I find it interesting that I felt more loved by other adults in the neighbourhood I grew up in.
Recently I told my "NOTher" that hearing her say that she loved me turns my stomach into knots bc of her evil doings in 2022 alone. I went to tell her No MORE & the headaches I always have stayed at her house bc when I got home I had no headache, 20 days & counting. God's way of telling me I'm on the right track!
Certainly not, I refer to him as a drive and dream assassin. Throughout my ordeals I never doubted my innate ability. Thank you Dr. Reid, for all you have taught me.
Preach! Wow dream killers and achievement sabotagers for sure!!👏👏
I was hoping you would talk about this some day! Thank you so much Jay Ried!
This ALMOST makes me feel lucky..I was not confused by my mother because she was SO cold I never heard anything about love from her.
This is enlightening...I wondered why she hated me so much but I was not confused...she was a reptile...a dangerous cold blooded piece of breathing leather.
Yep… no ambiguity
My NM never told me she loved me until she felt I was getting nauseated by her abuse and getting detached from her and the whole family. She started to say "I love you" when I was starting to open my eyes about what "love"means to my family which means "you are my slave till you die".
@@Lyrielonwind Mine too. Just after I started to gain a vague sense of independence and realize what kind of abusive monster she is and distancing myself as she is aging and lonely, she began saying this like pathetic puppy. Monster who turned pathetic. Dunno what to think.
I haven't thought about it in these terms but now that you mention it I asked myself this question. When my mom was saying that she loves me the message I got was "I love you so you owe me to love me back". I'm still uncomfortable with people loving me because it makes me feel trapped. Thank you for this video, it helped me see where I got stuck and now I can start dismantling this story.
Some of the unhealthy rules we must refuse to follow could be: 1. Learn to ignore your body signals telling you that you have reached your limits while working harder than the average person does. 2. Don't discuss with family members any difficulties which could reveal to the world any parental shortcomings. Like being told to keep your mouth shut about being abused since it might cause a loss of reputation until the perpetrator of that abuse gets their justice due. Or when feeling deep grief while admitting it then being shamed for not being positive. 3. Top priority is always the reputation of our family name instead of being genuine and honest to others. 4. Keeping secrets is a must to uphold the reputation of the family name while trying to get ahead. 5. Adulting requires being willing to go along with unnecessary risks in life too so long as the stakes are high enough to mean the possibility of additional income in the future to help uphold the family name. For example if a rich stranger or family acquaintance starts showing inappropriate attention to a much younger than him family member who is above the age of consent then complaints about it are not allowed and that family member could be called stupid for saying no to a date with them or when turning down an offer of marriage to them while being their employee or care giver at work. 6. Being genuine or needy is not allowed if it could detract from the false image that the family is successful. And so don't you dare have any set of disabilities which might lead anyone outside the family suspect that the family DNA is only of average quality while in some respects it is at the shallow end of the pool unless you want family members to start doing everything in their power to reach a place where they can pretend you don't exist whenever they are at any well heeled dinner party. Or worse yet then being constant gossiped about as the black sheep of the family or the ne'er do well to anyone who would listen in order to gain pity towards them after they convinced a child they have no disability when the child took on more than what they were capable of following through on. For example princess Alice was almost from birth deaf while being expected to learn how to appear without deafness while Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha from the time he was a young boy was always being expected to pretend he was acquiring and then had what it took to work in the military just like any other male person around.
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It's such a complex subject but so clearly explained in this helpful video.
Thank you so much for another really helpful and supportive and inciteful video, your videos mean a lot to me and are having a really big impact recovering from 2 narcissistic parents. Thank you
I had no I to be loved
I had a very puzzling experience with this phenomenon. Not only was I clearly being lied to about being loved, but it was being drilled into me with outlandish frequency. I stopped believing in it before I was 10 and subsequently didn't feel comfortable replying "Love you too" anymore so I was construed as being schizoid or autistic. But I love plenty of things, deeply and often, just not my parents. And when they die, I'll piss on their graves. Peace!
This sounds like I am making this up: _I never missed my mom as a kid even if I was away for weeks._ I perceived her as a rageful violent monster I had to live with and believe.
Now as adults she tries to guilt us into loving her and she is such a victim. I feel guilty for finding her gross and preferring no contanct. She guilts us. It is just monstrous to abuse your children and mess them up and claim they are evil and uncaring when they do not love after all the violence and abuse. First you torture and then you believe your entitled to be loved my the ones whose lives you ruined. Entitlement beyond any reason.
My mother is a co-morbid narcissitic-borderline with coverted vunerable tendencies that was very physically and emotionally abusive at times. My eldest sister despite her loving and caring nature towards me will be an an enabler and has unconditional love for my mother. She once advised me that my favorite aunt doesn't actually care or really like me. That my aunt love her dog more than me. This isn't true as she isn't the one that is my legal guardian but she is still kind and loving as best as she could. She would works while attending school to send money oversea to her family so they could live decent living standards .
Why, why, why do so many people have children?!!
So that the children will love THEM. So backwards!
So that their children will take care of them when they grow old.
what is love...gentle, kind, compassionate, caring, helpful, supportive, good counsel, tolerant....or hate....destroy, mock, humiliate, abandon, ignore...look at their behaviors to us.
Thank you again, Jay Reid!
So very helpful. Thank you
This was excellent, I have been waiting for this explanation. Thank you so very much 💕
Super helpful video thank you!!! I've not heard these points covered elsewhere 💕
This is the best single piece of material I've seen on this topic, thank you so much Mr Reid.
Thanks Reid! This was/ is my life.. So much identitybuilding process and your videos is my toolbox to survive
Thank you for articulating this.
_"I'll bet you've never once taken a single moment to praise yourself for anything good you’ve done or how much you accomplished at the end of a day. Do you know what it feels like to be loved just for existing and being you?"_
There is grief inherent in that statement just waiting to be processed. Such a good point.
Yesterday I practiced showing myself all the love and acknowledgment at the end of the day for the first time. I was in tears to say the least. A flubbery mucussy mess!! Such a powerful breakthrough.
These videos are very well-explained.
Wow! Answering the question: Did I feel loved? In relation to parents, siblings, alleged friends and other people makes it all clear and organise your mind. Thank you for This powerful message.
Thank you for you super helpful videos ❤🙏
None of my narcissist family loves me or has ever loved anyone else.
You should post more frequently Jay. I can see this channel becoming very popular. Thanks for the video and education
Not one second of the day every day. I knew in my gut
Thank you for this video! This has brought a clarity that I didn't know how to put into words! I would to know if you have material that goes into this point. A huge exhale!
I’ve been waiting for someone to make this video. This explains the difference I felt between the love professed by my family of origin and the love I felt from my soulmate, my husband. The former made me feel like their was something wrong with me, whilst the latter made me feel connected with another human being. The latter felt real, and made me feel like there was nothing that could bring me down. The former made me feel guilty, small, and defective. There is a world of difference between real love and the kind of ‘love’ expressed by abusive people who are trying to control you.n
Once again 🙏thank you so much, Jay ☺️❤️✨ this helps very much 🙂
My ex's favorite thing to say to me was that I'd never find another person who would love me as much as he did. But I had this nagging question of 'Why do I feel so bad if I'm so loved.' He would tell me and others behind my back (I found out later) that I had trust issues because of my family experience. It wasn't until I watched Jay's video about altruistic narcissist did I realize that it described him to a perfection.
Thank you so much! This is very helpful to me.
Thank you very much.
I ended up not celebrating holidays because of the anxiety to make the house "just so" and that compulsion to clean is waning, but I recognize it still. And no matter what I do, that icky feeling never goes away. As I remember the adoration of her at these old fogey events, my sense of belonging is being reframed. Knowing what I know now, I can imagine the gossip going on due to the slanderous backstabbing I now know my adopted parent did. No wonder I never had a single family member want to be a part of my life. These horrible people try to destroy all they can about you to be seen as the "poor victim". Some people do not need to be adoptive parents. They just dont have what it takes. And are just so so sick.
So helpful!!!!
I felt hopeful, always wondering why I was so disturbed and irritated by them.... ? while pretending everything was ok... because you cant ever say its not or you are in BIG TROUBLE!
Thanks for this! I got it🙏🏼
When words don’t match reality, a child learns the incorrect meaning to words and events. Relearning the meanings of emotions is extremely difficult at best.
Yay! Thank you, Jay. I have wondered about this for years. I did not feel loved by my father. I can tell if I am being loved or not by those around me. What a milestone. Many, many thanks! I would award the Oscar on this one to you. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🤗⚜️⚜️⚜️
You are so welcome
I'm beginning to notice my reactions to things happening in the here and now, opposed to acting in response to the distorted reality I was expected to react to. p.s. saving up money to take the course
That's great progress. Keep going. Personally, I am working to end catastrophic thinking and over-reacting to events and challenges that can be managed and resolved one step at a time. Using my "executive function" to replace a lifetime of emotional reactions from family abusers who are actively seeking to provoke an emotional reaction and confusion. It is a daily struggle to overcome the feeling of "overwhelm" and keep moving forward, one step at a time, and not to self-abandon (feeling hopeless) as I have done in the past.
@@firehorse9996 Thanks for the encouragement ♡ Don't beat yourself up. That "trying to figure it out thinking" causes confusion, overwhelmed by the unsolvable circular "problem".
Very good question.
"something is not quite right" you are so gifted at helping others Forgive my bizarro parentheses it is very flow of thought. I know you already know this but as I listen to you the life I was forced to live (it is not our fault we are forced to live it it is better to say hey this is my documented life I want to understand why this happened) and all the work put into healing and learning how to exist in society after being criminally abused (especially with stigma associated with victims attracting more psychos while you also dont want to lie about your life an y more to protect abusers but as you know victims help others the way you help others another great thing about you you know we are here to help others too) I get like a flip book countless memories like puzzle pieces that algorithmically pop up You are so uniquely talented one day as we start to have more freedom not less we can heal this way that you operate by triggering the memories into holographs and sorted by the types of abuse how the world is not rational and being saved by the universal or the empirical or as you say, caring about actually being loved. Thank you dr Reid
Gold.🙏
I like how you make abstract, nebulous material become concrete.
I totally internalised the "that's what love is" part, so much so that I went through life genuinely thinking that that "love" thing is a sham. Actually, I still don't completely get what "love" is supposed to feel like. I can kind of extrapolate from what I feel for my cats but it's not the full picture. Or is it? I have no idea to be honest, and I have no idea where to get the baseline either.
Oh, and none of my "family" members have ever told me that they loved me, if it makes any difference. Stating any kind of emotions wasn't a "thing" in my family of origin. You had to "read minds" and extrapolate from what you see (especially "fun" for my Aspie butt) but explicitly naming emotions was taboo for some reason.
So, what I'm trying to say is, I get the importance of this video, and logically I get what's being said, but overall I just... don't get it. What is being loved supposed to feel like? What bodily experiences correspond to the emotion? Is it even an emotion, or a complex construct, or...?
In my family, showing attention or care was cheesy. Love was the gap between one aggression and the next.
Cristina Megías Cana wow your last sentence really struck me, thank you for voicing that!
I am glad that this contradiction is addressed in this video. To recognize and confirm that these are just manipulation words.
This quality that makes the narcissistic parent portray themselves as loving and caring in public. And the declaration of love for the scapegoat child. Makes it hard for the abused's perception to see that it isn't.
My narcissistic mother sometimes told me that I was her favorite child.
I absorbed these manipulative words.
She said when I was 52 years old and a short time before I went to 0 contact.
That I should always keep that in my mind, even after she died, that I am her favorite child.
The other 2 kids were annoying and exhausting, but I was calm and sweet.
And I should finally let go of this imagination. That she doesn't like me as much as my siblings.
So she said: That I should always know that even after she died...
Thank you ❤️🙏❤️
No love 💔
Thank you so much Jay. I hope I can buy you a beer or coffee someday.
You are welcome. I hope so too! 😅
Thank you so much
I remember last time he said he loved me and i responded no u dont cus ur actions dont line up with your words.
A challenging and confronting topic, at least for me.
You are great
The answer is simple. NO. Thankyou for this information is so powerful.💜🌌
I noticed that after growing up as the scapegoated child in a family dynamic with a covert narcissistic mother.
I've attracted relationships that also repeated patterns again.
(like arriving home)
Because I didn't know anything else. And I'm in a vulnerable position. Not self-determined. The inner beliefs create a vibration that attracts the same thing on the outside.
I now have a partner who supports me. And it helps me to be able to see what was done to me at a distance from my family. But he is also controlling. I don't even know... I don't know what that is..
I only keep in touch with him. He eliminated the other contacts.
"Narc parent doesn't feel Sufficiently Complied With" 🤣🤣🤣
Easy answer, never felt loved by my dad, ever. I think he is relieved by my no contact.
It's hard to know if my father loved me. He rocked me for hours as an infant. But, i feel neutral when I think did he love me. He didn't gaze in my eyes, cuddle or even hold my hand as a child-that i ever remember. I begged to go fishing(age 7)..he said, "you'll cry". I promised not too. He said, you have to get your own night-crawlers, bait your own hook and clean the fish myself. I agreed...because I wanted to fish with my dad, brothers. I never thought my dad was not loving. I just thought it was all normal. I learned later- he used me. Mother said he was a narcissist. I loved my parents, didn't want them to divorce. I tried to keep them together myself. It didn't work.
When I was 12 a couple of weeks after my dad was killed by a drunk driver. My mum told me in front of other family members. That she loves me but doesn't like me.
This has always stuck with me as my relationship with my mum has always since then been in a constant state of rupture. It taught me that being liked isn't superficial. Being loved what's that means. Isn't necessarily required. Being liked and cared for is important. Finding people don't like you and thinking this is your fault and you must centre on yourself in such a way is very damaging. I also don't think you can love someone you don't also like. The only feeling I have ever got some my mother is a type of unreasonable and unexplainable contempt. Like a horrible friend of your girlfriends. Who doesn't like you in that bitchy no reason kind of way a narcy friend does. Her way of behaving that made me feel she would abandon me at will and even deny me as hers was very harmful.
so much of the abuse I endured was under the guise of "love, care and protection". It was incredibly confusing growing up and I still struggle with the cognitive dissonance as an adult. I didn't and don't feel loved by my parents, but they proclaim their love for me and that's only enforced by enabling extended family and siblings. It feels so lonely to stand in that truth of my experience. It felt wrong to think that love meant being abused and scorned, and I was right about that, that is not what real love is.
Even the question if u felt loved is harder than usual to us. & it has levels of difficulty, as the level of damage.
Yes, i was told i was loved but only if i did as commanded.
Toward the end I repeatedly and “jokingly” asked my dad: “Do you hate me?” Sometimes after I let him down in some way, I meant it earnestly. Think about what I would have had to be going through to ask that. I did it in adulthood when my emotionally fragile parts got triggered. Now I know the answer. The answer was yes, he did. He felt contempt toward me, maybe all the time, but definitely in those moments when I asked…
No, I knew I wasn’t loved. He would even tell me, I don’t love you. However, my mother would try to say he did!? I can handle the truth better than lies. Huge enabler
I called my mother as an adolecent I need to know she loves me (before knowing anything about narcissism): *"Of course I love you but I wish you were normal."*
She cannot speak to me without critizing. Nowadays I've lashed enough times about her abuse she attempts to hold her tongue. If anything goes wrong (which in her eyes happens all the time) it is back to abuse and lashing out. She tries to not be such an a** because I've become way more discerning after learning she is a narcissist and not putting up with being disrespected, abused and raged at anymore about every f thing. She cannot help herself. She tries but it "leaks" out with every other thing.
She only began saying this as she is aging and lonely. Her "I love you" = I want you to pay attention to me and be nice to me regardless I've abused you, my child, your whole life. She loves me as far as she is getting something for her.