Kyle Chayka -”Filterworld” & Experiencing the World Through Algorithms | The Daily Show
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- čas přidán 24. 04. 2024
- Kyle Chayka, New Yorker staff writer and author of “Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture” sits down with Ronny Chieng and Jordan Klepper to discuss the effects of algorithm-based suggestions on how we experience taste and culture. Chayka discusses living in a time where we are accustomed to algorithms sorting and delivering content that fits our tastes and opinions, the world becoming more generic, experiencing culture collectively, yet becoming divided in the political sphere by sorting into extremist groups. #DailyShow #Algorithm #Culture
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I love the way Jordan and Ronnie handle these interviews together it really does make the interviews more fun !! More of this please!!
Absolutely! I’m mostly here for Jordan and Ronnie.
I thought it’d be awkward but it actually works. It feels more off-the-cuff than a more traditional tv show interview
"Are we executing serendipity?" - Jordan
"Humans are bad and dumb.” - Ronny
And this is why Jordan and Ronny are the magical couple we love so much.
that's gonna Kosta
they're the opposite of the movie Dumb and Dumber. Smart and Smarter.
The machine directed me here and I love it
💯
Expecting resin gum ad in 3 - 2- 1
Ronni and Jordan are a great tandem!
The "News Pals"! 😂
No, they are a farse of what the show was.
i was just thinking the same thing. They are like Bonnie & Clyde
@@GrowHealthyTropicalTrees that's a horrible team!
@@GrowHealthyTropicalTrees murdering criminals?
I have watched every interview this week due to the Ronnie/Jordan combo
Avocado green, harvest gold, and tangerine orange. All the cool people in the 70s had these colors in their homes. Right down to the kitchen appliances. There was no social media then. Just TV and magazines. We've been keeping up with the Jones's forever.
Right? Parody has always been the way.
or the boring middle class rich
1812 and the influence of Beau Brummell on men's fashions. (And more importantly, his influence toward frequent bathing and dental hygiene.)
That's mostly the colors that were available. Even yarn!
I never thought of it that way. Thanks for the new neural netway
You two keep hitting it out of the park with your topics.
Jordan mentioned Liquid Swords 🏆
Imma Google that immediately
@@Ivartshiva it's a canon-level hip hop classic
When the mcs came to live out their names
I don't know why I was so surprised to hear Klepper drop that casually into the convo. Of course he knows cool music, but what a great example!
Yo, for real, these two are fabulous together! I always like co-anchored shows like "Weekend Update", so this is fantastic for me. But Ronnie be having me _weak_ like when he started loving the writer for the resin gum consumption! 🤣
👏 WE CANNOT BE CREATIVE/UNIQUE WHEN OUR FOCUS IS ON SURVIVAL 👏
It boils down to opportunity. When those options of trying something new could mean upending the broken system that strangles us, we will choose the system not because it's killing us but because we have been left with nothing else to turn to.
We were making cave paintings when survival was a day-to-day thing.
@@williamgechtman9287 Truly wish I knew your point here
@@mattymc1072 "we cannot be creative/unique when out focus is on survival."
We were creating unique art in caves when survival was much more dubious than it is today.
That is not to say we do not labor within a system that is unconcerned about personal realization, exploit us for its own profit, and leaves us too busy or tired to think about trying to change it, never mind acting on those thoughts.
It is just that survival or no, we have always been creative.
Ronnie's put his finger on it! Humans conform in order to create community with other humans. Long before the existence of social media, all donut shops in the US looked the same, regardless of the fact that they weren't chains. I remember a family bakery in my hometown that looked like every other donut shop I've ever been in, even the ones I frequented in Japan. It isn't the algorithm. It's the human desire to have things be comfortably the same and unchallenging.
you don't write well
I think the problem is that algorithms are exploiting this to remove it. For example, algorithms spread content that makes people angry because it garners engagement, not because it wants go make us angry. And the engagement is definitely HUMAN driven, not AI. But we wouldnt be engaging in angering content if it werent for the algorithm.
@@distractionb They're also wrong. I grew up in a small city with 6 coffee shops in the downtown area. All of them were wildly different, and which one you frequented said a lot about you. People who chose the Second Cup were viewed as conformist. Why would you go to sterile cookie-cutter coffee shop when it was two doors down from Serafina's, which was not only an ethical coffee house, but also sold witchcraft books and was decorated like a kaleidoscope? You don't create community by being like everyone else, you create brittleness and resentment. No one likes being told how to think.
That's not a human desire to conform to an aesthetic standard, that's just companies minimizing risk by following a proven sales strategy. And your point doesn't address the larger issue that algorithms are pushing the notion that there is only one correct way to be a doughnut shop and that people like you are falling for it.
@@NickW855 I don't drink coffee or eat doughnuts. Do the shops look like a 1950's diner?
I was rooting for this to be more insightful
Yeah. This guy isn't adding any new knowledge. He's just written a book on something everyone knows anyway. He's using "the algorithm" to get book sales.
Based on the post it notes the book may be better than the interview.
I'm not sure what the point is here, should the algorithms be more stochastic? That's a dead horse at this point, it's a well known issue. Even still, the algorithms on the platforms I use give me stuff I dislike all the time. Also, culture has never been less flat, at least partly due to these very same algorithms clustering niche communities.
In defense of algorithms, I never much enjoyed radio, and I had little exposure to the heavy and musicianship-driven types of music that I actually liked. I had to wade through a lot of junk music to find some of my favorite bands. I'd have loved an algorithm to suggest bands that other people with my taste liked. I think that would have made me musically richer, not poorer.
Ronny and Jordan are fantastic together!
Fascinating information Kyle and fun conversation together! AI knows I like to be 'fed' both right and left, conservative and progressive news and discussions daily and it feeds me well!
“Are we executing serendipity?”
EPIC LINE
Why I prefer Savers and consignment over boutiques. I want to discover. Have a memory. Find a hidden treasure. Why as an old college dj I can’t stand music algorithms as suave as they’ve gotten. They can’t charm.
I was just talking about how many will not experience the mind blowing experience of discovering Bowie, or Aretha Franklin, or Janis Joplin just by changing stations on the radio....#serendipity
I’m in my 20s and so many people my age will never listen to classic artist like these. Simply because they would not ever be recommend by their algorithm. I’m sure if they were exposed to this music as I was when I was younger because my Dad was a classic rock DJ, they would grow to love it. But without that exposure and the fact that people have the natural instinct to be lazy (Why waste time going to a record store digging through crates of music you might not like, when the algorithm will recommend you music you know will fit your current taste already?), culture continues to be flattened and ultimately boring. There will never be another Aretha because she was too unique of a talent. The only artists that succeed today are the ones that already fit the existing mold of the algorithm. Taylor Swift is generic auto tune but no one in the world has ever sounded like Micheal Jackson.
true that
They are a great team: Ronny is the comic. He gives the LOL. Kyle is the straight man, dry facts. Together they give us what we look for, George Carlin.
No matter what they do with their algorithms, they can't stop you from showing your friends the cool album you just stumbled across when you get together.
Daily Show has been nailing it with their guests …let alone the interviewers!
I think it's important to remember that the algorithm has a motive to sell. Where a friend who recommends something to you may also have a motive, that motive is usually to connect on a personal level. It's not comparable. If you compare however the ability of a human to sell vs a computer, the scale becomes impossible for a human to match. That's the advantage of the algorithm. It simply amplifies the selling capacity. You could already be convinced to buy something you don't actually want. That's old news.
In my opinion it should be against the law to use our own species weaknesses against ourselves. It's certainly immoral.
although we all have dealt with the very human used car salesman in some form or fashion
I fully admit I have not read the book, but I'm not overly impressed by Kyle's take here in the interview.
Yes, the algorithms are designed to feed you more of the things you are likely to click on. They "learn" you through your interaction with them. They also will make recommendations based upon the aggregate of what other people, who have liked the same thing you like, liked as well. i.e. Take the way Spotify does music for example.
That all said, I would argue that there is a huge diversification in consumable media and more likely to be more smaller successes than there were before. For example, for music you no longer have record labels being as strong of gate keepers to the wider public as they once were. CZcams clearly breaks the model of TV and movie studio executives being the arbiters of what video sees national and international distribution.
If anything, I would argue that this has not flattened culture but has allowed it to splinter more than ever before.
As for recommendations outside of my ordinary curated bubble I get recommendations from my family, my friends, my coworkers, numerous people on different Discords that I interact with, and my weekly raid group. If what they share sounds appealing, I can go take a look.
As for style norms on menus and/or interior or exterior building appearance that has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years.
Maybe I should read the book to see if Kyle recognizes these historic patterns and addresses this all with the nuance and complexity it deserves. But, from the interview, eh.
Yeah, if people want to abdicate all their decision making to an algorithm, they can.
Im so sorry our humanity has fallen.
And on top of that, can we please keep reaching for the stars.
Its only a matter of time, try to bring hope to this world.
❤
Amazon prime video now tells me that it's only showing recommendations and no matter how many times I disable that in settings, Amazon changes right back and puts up the screen telling me it's optional as if I actually have a choice.
Time to cancel.
jordan, thank you for the liquid swords rec, really needed to listen to more wu tang today
wu tang is for the children. word
I think the algorithm gave him his vocal fryyyyy.
The first time I remember an algorithm "sucessfully" recommending something to me was in the mid 1990s when a plain-text e-mail based music recommendation service called Ringo (based on collaborative filtering) recommended Björk to me. I had never heard of her, but based on how many other things it was recommending to me that I already knew I liked, I went ahead and bought her _Debut_ album. Over the next two decades I proceeded to buy all of her (regular) albums. So, that worked…
Loving Jordan & Ronni as cohosts❤❤ Because algorithms are a marketing tool, they won't change completely, but we as the audience should advocate for algorithm tweaks we can choose - like 20-30% (truly) random or contrasting content. Over time, it would also improve the efficiency of the marketing tool.
Our news satire shows have become legit journalistic projects.
Ok lol. He got me at post it notes
liquid swordz , yes!
Why it does it:
Consumer Side - to funnel towards ads for sales as that's the revenue
Politics - to have the viewer constantly engage so they remain on as long as possible and push the object higher so more people see it and stay on to increase views for the consumer side.
It's all to keep you on... seeing ads... and buying things from those ads. Pure capitalism at work.
Honest question. Is boring bad?
We are more alike than we would like to admit. Go out there and blend.
GZA fan!
killa bees on a swarm
Jordan and Ronny = ⚡️❤️🔥⚡️
I keep getting ads in my New York Times (online) for a rehab center in my state 😂 yikes what do they know about me that I don't know?!
I get bored because of algorithms... like, I bought that/looked at that/paused on it once, that doesn't mean I will ever buy it again, or mean that I only want to see those things, or things like them. I feel like the internet ultimately made us all less smart..? IDK, might be an old person rant here.. it was a world of possibilities in the beginning... now it's mostly annoying. Thank you guys for not being annoying!
A set trap , is the rabbit hole where we tumble into the algorithm of our subconscious where we have no logic control, just utter fascination 😊
I'm not in IG or Tik-Tok, live outside the US, and have never seen a coffee shop like that in my life!
Jordan is next. Well earned.
If I buy this book, after watching this video, is that also funneling (: Btw, I did it... Got one.
May the algorithm bless us and distract us.
Was it serendipity or an algorithm that led me to this video? (I have the audiobook to this, so I knew I had to stay and watch haha)
Great job
I can’t speak for younger generations because I’m a Boomer. I was luckily raised to be a critical thinker. I think you get to a certain age when you realize what’s really important, and it’s not wearing the most fashionable anything, or eating the most trendy foods, or driving the most flashy car. Capitalism and materialism and fame only gets you so much satisfaction. Believe me.
That concluding sentence perfectly pins down the root of the issue.
It’s not about generations. In the 50’s there were plenty of families where kids were raised to believe questioning authority is wrong. But there were also families who encouraged critical thinking. I find it ridiculous that people are critical of the generations they helped raise. As if it’s the children’s fault for their struggles and as though every generation doesn’t have struggles. Older generations point to how they overcame their struggles to prove their superiority, ignoring that the kids haven’t have time to figure out how they are going to overcome.
@@GregMerritt-ws8tq what, "Believe me"?
@@LoveProWrestling You already know that's not the line I meant. Stop it.
lol critical thinker? thanks for what? boomers are the Me generation. so what's left?
"Algorithm chooses for me what I will see a custom made Ultra grade reality
Catered to created for, exists only to me"
From the song Self Own by Shadowscale
This is so true. Society is literally being herded through the internet.
Funny how people thought the internet would set them free.
It set some people free, but the vast majority are just too mainstream and easy to herd lol
FYI - feeding people political viewpoints through the medium of comedy works extremely well ;)
an algorithm president is exactly what we need, but then it's still a question of who controls the algorithm. I could see it working if a political party trained a chatbot on their party platform, as long as there was some transparency in place to prevent the model being swapped out after the election. Whatever model did the campaigning should have to serve the full term. of course it also relies on a human proxy who at least promises to do what the AI suggests
Chatbot Teleprompter.
isn't that what happened in the last four elections?
Wow! It's like we are on the spaceship in Wall-E.
#DailyShow needs to interview #IsraelismFilm 🙏🏼☮️🕊🗽⚖️🕉
Flim Springfield ☢️
Is this why I got mostly nbc news on the news tab of CZcams or is that just favored by the site
This stty algorithm keeps feeding me these videos 😂
This late Gen X/early Gen Y'er TOTALLY agrees. I don't allow an algorithm to TELL me what to like. I hardly ever use sm, and when I do, I never follow their suggestions. I think for myself.
5:58 Peak comedy
Wish there was a way for users to customize algorithms. Like maybe some days I just leave it on default and other days I want to go out of my comfort zone.
i know this format is only for this week; with the two of them, but as a word of advice to both; they're both great scripted comedians, but I'd like to see (personally), their question and interviewing skills be a little more polished. again, i understand that this is new, just more of a friendly-feedback-advice:
go with JS-style; have a well thought out formulated question, vs rant-style-tirade with guests :)
so far, they're doing great though :)
9:50 no tidy perfect solutions exist- differences just need to be negotiated until both parties are satisfied to the degree of harboring no ill will to maintain ongoing peace until it’s time for another raising of issues… try not to harbor resentment but I speak for myself it takes quite a bit of self control
😂OK did Jordan Klepper just ask 1 of the Lllloooongest ?? 'S I ever heard?😂😂🎸🐬foooqua
Bananas weren't popular until the late 1800s. Pineapple was a status symbol until mid 1800s. This wasn't a culture or algorithm thing. It was just really hard to move them without spoiling the fruit. Most product change in culture is just from cost and difficulty on the supply. People use the same stuff because economies of scale are cheaper.
I use the same stuff because it works for me and because I am not a factor in pop culture, the products I rely on are systematically discontinued. now however, as more small companies are seeking to P.E, everyone will be forced into $ht products; and the ignorant will have no problem with that what so ever
United we stand, divided we fall, its so obvious why its like this. ÷ the corrupt can keep on corrupting. Nothing gets done. Its all by design.
Frankenstein 101 😂
Algos brought me here.
We have always been choreographed and been told what the in thing is.....Tylor Swift, Beatles, etc., etc, top 40, your region has to like this......or your out
I concur
Liquid Swords has more intelligence behind the lyrics than most of the people in this country probably including myself
In this age, so many resources have been dedicated to psychologically finding the "manipulation point" of populations and individuals. Your average human being cannot compete with the scope of that tech.
I wish the 'algorithm' would tell me how to get everything I ever wanted without harmful repercussions, when i wanted it....
I keep getting dogs’ food ads, but I don’t have dog pets nor I want. Why do I keep getting them? Is the algorithm trying to persuade me? 🤨
If I don't see what I want or something I don't know anything about I look for it. I have no interest in being pigeon-toed into information. I want to know what's out there. Even if I don't necessarily like it.
The Taylor Swift of politics would be Vermin Supreme
I would imagine that the root cause here is globalization vs the algorithms. That is fuel on an already burning 🔥
This guys “vocal fry” is killing his message.
book written on spec - even the author has reference notes for the interview - it's almost algorithmic?
the couple on the right are cute
The algorithm showed me this video.
Why not create a social media platform that allows you to turn off your algorithm?
You can't quite "turn off" an algorithm. An algorithm is just a description of a logical process that being taken. "Turning it off", means removing its existence entirely. As an example, the process of sorting books on a bookshelf, or even presenting a list of names in a phone book... The only way to turn these off, is to not buy books, or collect a list of names at all. To avoid semantics, though, let's instead redefine "Algorithm" as the method by which a company retains value to its users or monetizes the information that it retrieves/produces.
The essence of the problem is that we treat information a certain way in our society in regards to ownership, and we'd need to change that somehow. Plus, if we honor the 1st and care about personal rights, then imposing constraints or detecting monetization/misuse of information/knowledge is practically unenforceable. If we however ignore those rights to privacy/speech/etc, then perhaps what could be done is to require the companies that develop software to support and assist with third party integration into their products. Despite this still not really being enforceable (as software is terribly complex and has a development/maintenance cost), it "could" force algorithmic diversity and allow for micro-competition on all the platforms. However, forcing only "certain" companies to abide by arbitrary rules like this is contrary to free-market capitalism, and would also directly conflict with a company's ability to earn revenue (or provide value to users) if they're required to support alternative processes within their platforms. There's just no __real__ way to motivate investors/developers/maintainers of platforms (or anything really) to be both transparent and altruistic with their processes/algorithms.
We should really just be more lenient with what we consider a monopoly, somehow stretch its definition to include information monopolies, require them to publicize how they turn information into revenue, and impose requirements on how that information may be used/improved/monetized. Essentially turning passive worthless things, like privacy policies or public documentation, into contracts that can actually hold up in a court of law and result in a major lawsuit from users when it is violated. This way platforms can actually be held accountable for their "free" services.
It is hard to find something new and different.
My personality must confuse the algorithm because it's always recommending s*** that I think is weird and would never like and would never try. But I'm over 45, so that means I did a lot of weird s*** in the real world first.
This was a rough interview
The cool high school friend that recommends Liquid Swords!--NICE jordan......killa bees on a swarm
I watched this episode because an algorithm recommended it to me. 🤖
WuTang
I'm so glad they said algorithm and not the other 'A' word. Hey Ronnie, I don't have any antisocial information theft accounts, why you still participating?
I love love both Ronny and Jordan but in interviews Ronny is giving group partner who didn’t do any work and is improv winging the group presentation
Taylor Swift for President who can sing, dance and think! YES!
no, No, NO.... not everyone can like T.Swift... people just say they like her to not get attacked, I personally think she's great....
Between the effected voice fry and the constant injection of “like” makes this hard to hear… “it affects everything”… to use his own words.
Design aesthetics export globally throughout the ages since the advent of mass communication. The algorithm has nothing to do with it. Author clearly has no frame of reference for interior design, architecture, or culture as a export.
🇺🇸 Culture 🧫😂🚫
Algorithms is the same as keeping up with the jones.
Stop falling trends.
In the search of better the algorithm will find what we have missed to find more efficiently than a friend who is not aware of it.
We are always being programmed. Now it's AI programming us.
#NoJokeJoe
There are plenty of people who don't listen to Taylor Swift. Not everyone thinks she's talented. Some people need something more than just dairy writing. Try Ani DiFranco.
#ShadowBanned
I think my algorithm hates me. It only recommends things I don't like.
I'd like to watch the occasional UFO story, but won't because then there will be hundreds of aluminum hat creators flooding my feed. There's only a few talented smart people I consistently watch and as you know this is a place where intelligent empathetic people are pleasantly entertained.
Books like these ARE themselves like coffee shop refurbished wood, in that they all offer opinions to augment societal boundaries, I think the author has a point. Or a corner, if u will.
Ronny asked great questions. The author's answers were disappointingly generic