Coaching Clash: How World's Top 2 Coaches Differ
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 05. 2024
- Only in golf would the world's top 2 coaches have such different methods. In this video, I look at how Sean Foley and Pete Cowen see the golf swing differently. If you want to understand your golf swing a little better then taking guidance from these giants of the game will go a long way.
Related Videos
▶ Sean Foley's Swing Model: • World's #1 Swing Coach...
▶ Pete Cowen's model: • Unlocking World's #1 C...
Time Stamp
00:00 Introduction
00:30 Background and personalities
02:20 Cowen's spiral staircase
03:00 Foley's stretch phase
04:05 Cowen's spinning right arm down
05:00 Foley's speedboat analogy
06:30 Cowen's Pressure fade release
07:20 Foley release
07:45 Energy and sequence
08:48 Cowen's BIG MISS
09:22 Ground reaction forces
12:00 The GOLD
#Subscribe #HitTheBell
▶ Become a FREE SUBSCRIBER to drnoelrousseau bit.ly/drnoelrousseau
▶ FREE APP GOLF COACH APP NOW FREE! apps.apple.com/us/app/golf-co...
▶ FREE IMPACT course www.golfcoach.online/offers/X...
▶ LESSONS One-one lessons in-person and online: www.golfcoach.online
▶Online courses: www.golfcoach.online/pricing
Thank you to the Visual Golf CZcams channel for the Champ & Stenson footage:
/ @visualgolf3 - Sport
Excellent Dissertation, Dr.
Oh no 😟 was it a bit academic?
@@GolfCoachDrNoel No, very well done. (not everything is sarcasm)
Bang on!
Love the explanation of both coaches theories. I've been researching a lot about both recently and I've used the Cowen arm spin for a while. Played my best golf with it, amazing compression and easy of swing. Looking at trying the Foley ideas at the range this week and see what I prefer but I love the Cowen model. Just very difficult to understand what he's trying to portray sometimes 😅
I totally agree! Clearly a fantastic technical model but for a coach, he is not great at explaining it in simple terms. There is an old communication model that I try and stick to; 'the archer never blames the target'.
So if my student isn't getting it, the honus is on me to do a better job communicating my point. Not just repeat it louder and more forcefully as my coach used to do with me.
Thank you for your video; I now understand where my problem lies. I've been merging concepts from two different people. When I have a slight fade, I think about releasing the clubhead, and when I feel unstable, I think about maintaining the wrist angle. However, because my forearms are not fully extended (as Pete mentioned), I end up topping the ball when I don't release properly. Then, I try to shift more weight to my left foot, hoping to hit the turf behind the ball... In short, it's a mess. But now things are a bit clearer. Thank you very much.
That C. Champ Drive gave me goosebumps. The elegance alone puts me square into Team Foley
I agree. He moves like water. I could watch that all day I wonder how much of that was Champ before he met Foley though
I like both coaches, our fellow Canadian has extremely done well as you shared! I believe for me a 67 year old I find Cowen’s approach easier to follow as I can’t rotate my body like these young guys/ladies
That’s a good shout. Probably easier to go with the Cowen route if rotating isn’t your thing.
Oh no! never knew i had a self taught mixture of both! Foley chest stretch Cowen arms shoulder load, mixture downswing, foley finish
But striking it the best ever!
If it’s working, keep doing it. Unless you have studiously followed a particular pathway. I think most of us would be a mix of a, number of swing models.
@@GolfCoachDrNoel Tnx i thought id discovered the secret of the chest engine! describing it as rocking a heavy baby!
Obv my playing partners ignored it so i wont tell them its Foleys main move!
Prob as i have a neutral (ok maybe weak!) grip Cowens right arm move helps me deloft/square the club but i think i have the Foley fling with my left!
like you say if it works,my swing feels so solid but dynamic at moment
Thanks for all great videos
i enjoyed the video and i kinda actually can and do both of these type actions and i learned them from youtube and have had good luck with both. the way it works with me is one style is good for a while and when it stops working i think about the other style but they don't mix well. i don't change from swing to swing but more one day this is working and then it's not and let's try this now. i've been around a 12 for many many years and not sticking with one thing is my problem but i enjoy the torture like most of us. golf is fun right???
I feel your pain. I was working out which to go with on the range today 10-mins before tee off 😳
i think more right side winding up and driving down and out with the cowen style and more left side turning back and pulling down and thru with the other. they both work for me but i sometimes have to figure out what feels right. good gofin' to ya.@@GolfCoachDrNoel
For short game (pitch and approach shots) I would take Cowen method, but full shots with mid to long irons and driver I like Foley's method.
Wonderful analyses! With regard to Stenson, unlike most conventional thinking, he almost has a “death” grip on the golf club.
Ahh, that makes sense. I heard Foley promoting this actually while I was doing the research for this video. Apparently not at all like holding a small bird/tube of toothpaste etc after all.
@@GolfCoachDrNoel i could be wrong but i think his coach advocates for an equal and opposite grip pressure from the hands regardless of the intensity, sort of like wringing a wet towel....
Once you’ve worked on Cowens principles and drills for a few months it all starts to click, so consistent and simple, he’s one on the best short game coaches too, unbelievable bunker coach. Great vid mate
Thanks for that. I imagine that most of us don’t give it enough time.
As an older player I prefer the Cowan swing but have struggled to get it working with my driver.
as a fellow older player i found success with gary edwin's method ...
Great video! in my opinion the Cowen method is simpler and more consistent, particularly for older players. Foley is a fantastic coach but he definitely teaches a more athletically demanding method. Both fantastic, but for me, at 61 and a 4 handicap, my swing is far more in line with what Cowen teaches and has been for years mainly to avoid stress on the body.
Really helpful insight. I can imagine how that would be the case. Thank you for sharing your experience of the method
Very interesting, guess we might be mixing and matching parts of both and utilizing neither benefits. Would body type or athletic ability affect one over another. Read someone suggest Cowan is better for seniors, but all the coiling and pressure moves would not appear to be easy. Is this golfing machine hitter vs swinger?
Pressure on the ball that you can create anyway by far outweighs speed anyway in the week , as pressure on the ball will give u more of face control and better strike. Which will result in more accuracy and more repeatability and better scores.
Agreed. I think Foley would also prioritise pressure on the ball though.
Nice comparison. I like the sequencing thought of Foley, but not that clubhead rotation. I am naturally a very wristy golfer with a shallow plane, and to get the club square at impact from being you is very timing dependent. I like to keep the clubhead just a little parallel or in front of me these days. It helps me to turn my overdraws into fades.
Good stuff.Thanks for that. It is all about context in terms of where you are coming from. Sounds like you have found a good direction.
I like Foley’s on Cameron Champ final product better than Cowen’s on Svenson. I love effortless swing looking.
Me too. Not to say that it is a better model but what a move. Champ moves like water. If I swung like that I wouldn't care what I scored, I would just play all day every day.
like the Shawn Clement method. produces fast club head speeds but I do not get the same amount of control as with the Cowen method.
I need to take a look. Would you recommend any particular video?
@@GolfCoachDrNoel Hes just put a few out after a long break,(to me he looks like a left hander playing right)
years ago he was one of the very few that recommended golf related coordination/skill drills which only 1 person at my club has taken on board yet they are one of the major reasons i got good at golf quickly at an old age!
Every good golfer that ever lived can bounce a ball on a wedge,hardly any hackers can! but they cant see the connection
I love the idea of coordination drills. That is the big challenge with golf after all.
Ok, you've convinced me, I'll spend some time and look into his methods.
@@GolfCoachDrNoel One that i called the machine gun drill he calls elephant swinging his trunk!
basically a line of golf balls where you start with continuous feet together swing then shuffle forwards hitting the balls
If i was a coach i would have all beginners/hackers doing feet together continuous 1/2 swings clipping the range peg 10 times then do it with eyes shut!
then with wider stance then with shorter peg etc
warning only 1 person at my club has followed some of my skill drills but hes got his hcp down and going lower
it must be hard being a coach as the easiest way to take 5 shots a round of a poor player is a putting lesson but i bet nobody does! well that and underclubbing
Excellent video, maybe a whole series of like-minded coach comparisons?
Thanks for that. I was thinking along the same lines. Any suggestions?
Maybe Leadbetter, Stack & Tilt, MORAD?
I think there is a good story to be told with short game coaches too.
@@GolfCoachDrNoel I'd love to see a short game comparison, there are so many different approaches.
i thought Foley (was) and is a big believer in the metrics provided by "trackman" and am surmising his swing model is the best for achieving optimal trackman numbers that in his mind, will produce superior ball striking for the golfers he instructs
That certainly seemed to be the case 10 years ago but I think that now launch monitors have been around for a while he would be less driven by the numbers. It is a fantastic tool but not the whole story. Club delivery is always king but I know many players that display a great set of numbers but have to make some funky adaptations in order to do so. I would imagine that Foley would be taking into account a large range of factors; skill level, mobility, appetite for change, dominant patterns etc
Excellent video, sounds like Sean is more of a stack n tilt coach???
I don’t see that connection. He hates an extended (stacked) spine in the backswing which is kinda the defining feature of stack and tilt. Maybe in other ways though.
I have done both models at different times and what I will say is the Foley model produces more speed but it does come at the detriment to ball striking. In order to sling the club and square it up you need very little pressure in the hands, wrists and arms but that at the same time sort of numbs the ability to sense where the face is pointing. The Foley model is hard to control under pressure because if you don't rotate well on a shot the ball is going left. The best ball strikers have incredible hands and that is the Cowen model.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Have practice and figure out😅side
Foley = woods/longer irons, Cowen = medium to short irons, chipping
Interesting perspective
What swing style do you recommend to older and average players?
The answer that is always; depends on where you are coming from. i.e what is your current pattern and tenancies when things go wrong. Sorry that isn't the straight forward answer you may have wanted but that is the role of a good coach; to add the right ingredients to help the player move away from the patterns that hurt them.
Check out Andrew Emery.
SIC
I dont like either one lol. I been looking at mimicking and using the methods of Jack Nicholas, Ben Hogan, Lee Trevino, Young Tiger Woods and Bobby Jones. Turning in the back swing with the shoulders: relaxed arms and Hands. But, controlling the wrists in the swing, using speed through the back swing to set up the club and allowing the weight of the club to set itself in the back swing. Then using the throw method by using both the lateral weight shift and using the chest to speed up the club. Which in-turn makes the relaxed arms to follow behind. which creates lag in the swing and following the weight shift with your chest and coming through the ball with the motion and making sweet contact. I prefer that natural swing method and having less swing thoughts and being less technical or biomechanical about the swing. Rotary Swing method is about learning from the greats of the past. all of today's teaching methods are all set-up to help recreate what the old greats did. Because they found the true golf swing in the upbringing of the sport.
Those are certainly sound fundamentals that are going to help most golfers. Sounds like you really like Chuck’s whole approach.
I like the John Daly approach.........grip it and rip it!
... like a wise man once said ... different horses for different courses ...
SNEAD,HOGAN, ARNIE, NICKLAUS, PLAYER, TREVINO, NONE OF THESE GUYS WOULD HAVE WON AS MUCH IF THEY HAD LISTENED TO EITHER OF THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS. 😮
I am pretty sure that both coaches would have kept all those players doing what they do best and keep an eye on destructive habits. You can't be that experienced with tour players and not be able to adapt and work around the player. But, I hear your point and there is definite risk of de-skilling elite level players if you are too stuck in your own model.
What these guys did with the inside of their bodies is impossible to see. How much do they brace their torso ?
Do you think the fact that Stenson is naturally left handed lends itself to Pete Cowans methodology to stabilise the clubface?
I didn't know that. Thanks.
I think this is Cowen's hard earned swing concept that he would use with every player where applicable. To your point though, it is really dominated by the right side.
@@GolfCoachDrNoel Golf has turned me almost ambidextrous! i can play T Tennis left handed now! would have whiffed every time pre golf!
One says "you struddle." The other says "you struggle eh?"
I honesty find Cowan to be just full of word salad. I can’t bear the guy….overated. Let gravity and physics do the work.
I know what you mean about 'word salad'. I don't think communication is his best attribute but I wouldn't let personal likes get in the way of 50 years of tour experience and wisdom.
I have really warmed to him as I have watched more of his videos. His thing seems to be that he is not trying to convince the viewer of anything or sell any ideas. "Here's my stuff, take it or leave it." I guess you can do that when you are the best in the world.
On that note, I used to have a strong dislike for the way Foley presents but now I love watching him talk. I must be getting older.
Butch Harmon has had some success as well. foley is too complicated
Ahh yes!. Probably more than both of these guys. I need to cover him next. Tougher to find a model in his teachings
maybe that's a good thing @@GolfCoachDrNoel
No earthly idea where this fella came up with the idea that Sean Foley is someone important in golf instruction. That is completely off the wall.
Pete Cowan has for decades worked with experts in Biomecanics he gives them credit in several video's, the latest one with James Robinson here on youtube
Thanks for that. I’d love to see that if you have a link? Maybe he just doesn’t mention it as much
Peter Cowen has coached 8 different major winners.Enough said.
And probably more. It wasn’t a question of which coach is best. Just an objective look at their methods. I do wonder though, how many players both coaches have worked with that they have not been able to help.
Dr.Noel I really like your videos, I've been an instructor for decades now and still review all the current trends in teaching, one can never stop learning. Pete is a master teacher for sure..... have a look at this interview with him @ minute 38:40 he gets into his bio mec work. Keep up the good work it helps me for sure czcams.com/video/Dy-RL-bV11o/video.html
I’m not a fan of Sean Foley at all. He uses so many unnecessary buzz words, and look at what he did to the swings of Woods & Rosey. Gimme Harmon, Leadbetter & Cowen any day
I thought Lead’s lesson with Garret from Good Good was a masterclass in simplicity and effectiveness - no snake oil, just a great understanding of golf-swing mechanics - based on decades of real-world experience with some of the best in the game.
Cameron Champ needs to build his own driver. Stay away from the tour truck.
Hi Steven. Do you have inside knowledge of this? I'd love to know more.
@GolfCoachDrNoel his driver is to whippey. He basically needs an 1 iron 12 degrees and a 2 iron 16 degrees with the stiffest shafts possible. Only one wood in the bag driver 5 degrees with a 120 gram shaft thicker tip.
Sean Phoney is not on the same level as Pete Cowan.
Not even close! Pete Cowen is a master golf teacher, Sean Foley couldn't hold his jock strap. Just say'n!
Cowan is largely unintelligible with his coaching eg spin the arm down 🤷♂️ He may be a superb coach but I have great difficulty understanding him and making sense of his philosophy. However I respect your opinion and I can only go with how I understand things.
@@Sevemache’s largely unintelligible? How can you even say such a thing to one of the best tour coaches out there? He’s a tour coach for a reason. Just because you can’t understand his teaching doesn’t make him “largely unintelligible”
they both teach a weak, confusing swing.
Sean is a joke every player he coaches gets injured