I think they could still touch on this in Boruto. Yamato reports Orochimaru blatantly leaves his home arrest. Naruto tells him not to pursue he knows where he is. He finds orochimaru paying his respects at the grave of his greatest rival.
@@fr0stdr4ke95agreed not a good guy but not necessarily evil anymore. Like he is technically under house arrest in Boruto because Naruto doesn’t really trust him to not do evil stuff lol
@@sonnywilson748 he was saying that their powers are opposite of the person they are copied from As in mitsuki was weaker than orochimaru and kashin kogi is stronger than jiraya
koji kashin in boruto is really cool to watch, and he’ll definitely get his jiraya memories back since it was teased a while ago. I just can’t wait for the naruto reunion
@@kjthagawd5619 I really hope so. I got real empathy for these characters. They’ve been through so much trauma and they deserve to come back to life and see the peace that’s been created. I know the plot might be a little tarnished by characters coming back but I don’t care.😢😢😢 I really hope Sasuke brother is still alive. Somehow I know it’s ridiculous but that poor boy he was just a kid when he died.
I always have to question when he does something like that if it’s an actual blind spot or an engagement driver. He’s admitted to it a couple times in either shorts or the podcast, but never the exact thing.
@@nickboaz9629 ehh, Orochimaru was definitely male at some point, but is using a female body at the moment, and does not seem to have a strong connection to either gender, so they works fairly well for them.
Gotta take into consideration that jaraiya was not trying to hurt naruto in 4tails Cloak Oorochimaru was not trying to kill Itachi, he wanted to take over his body
Well, we actually saw both of the fights and they were pretty instantaneous stomps. In the first Itachi pinned him in a Sharingan genjutsu before he could even get off his first attack and then cut off his arm. The second, he decapitated seven of the eight heads of the Eight Branches technique and then absorbed and sealed him with Totsuka no Tsurugi, Itachi did not waste time. Orochimaru not wanting to kill Itachi made zero difference in the outcome.
Orochimaru can't enter sage mode it's stated he couldn't when he was bit by the great snake sage he was lucky to even escape, that's why he made mitsuki
Is orichimaru ever once called they/them in manga? Because I know he is for sure referred to as he multiple times so I’m confused where you get the whole calling him “they” thing? Him stealing a girls body doesn’t make him no longer himself lol.
I think the joke was that he meant it literally, as in more than one person (constantly taking over other people's bodies), not a joke about his androgenous look.
They/them works pretty well for Orochimaru if you consider that they don't care about gender presentation and will gladly operate within a physically 'male or female' body without issue either way. It's a valid headcanon all things considered
@@NekoChanRules Not really. I don’t think Orochimaru cares which gender you see him as. By referring to him in that way, you’re just doing it to fulfill your own desires, not his. He simply wouldn’t care about it like that.
Jiraiya being almost beaten to death by Tsunade is a common trope in shounen anime. The male allowing himself to be beaten by the female. He didn't try to fight back or defend himself against her, so it doesn't really count.
Nah stop downplaying Tsunade mate. She’s super OP. Super strength and pretty much immortal with seal. Jiraiya = lost to Pain. Tsunade = caught 5 Susano’o Madara clones and LIVED.
Orchimaru stomped Tsunade and Jiraiya simultaneously without any jutsu or arms in OG Naruto. It wasn't even close. The only reason why Orchimaru lost, is because Naruto is OP.
I love seeing Orochimaru get some recognition and respect kuz holy shit is that man/woman/whatever tf slept on like the whole fan base just overlooks him or forget about him and it’s like bro is cracked and operates on higher iq than more than 95% of the verse and he’s the all knowing everything while being immortal 🗿also I’d assume he’s great at kenjutsu because sasuke had to learn how to use a sword frm someone👀
Yeah same here man I hate seeing him be underrated. He taught sasuke everything that sasuke knows in Shippuden plus the longer he lives the more op he gets.
It's not just about the body. CZcamsr is just want. Orochimaru is basically not worthy. And can't get into that calm and clarity that sage mode requires. Cause he's out of his mind.
Orochimaru is referred to as him by his peers though. It's Naruto fans that push the trans agenda that made him nonbinary. Not saying it's a big deal or anything, just giving clarity
By the time Boruto came around Orochimaru does not refer to themselves as any gender nor do the people around them. They also call themselves mitsuki's parent, not father. I beleive orochimaru is non-binary now.@@BusterOlsen
Reminder that Jiraiya doesn’t have regeneration when fighting Naruto. So he beat 4 Tails Naruto and used a sealing jutsu to beat 4 Tails Naruto while Orochimaru just sent him away and ran away-Yamato was the one who had to calm him down.
You also have to remember jiriya wasn't hindered when he fought 4 tails naruto and almost died.... where Orochimaru was able to keep 4 tails naruto a bay, without his hands, because of Hiruzen so he couldn't use any of strong jutsu
@@Camera728 orochimaru also wasn't trying to kill naruto, killing him would be useless for body snatching or experimentation , because kurama would be released on death. That's another reason not to kill him as well.
@@joshuachudley1270What? Orochi clearly can use his hands again when he fought 4 Tails Naruto. He literally punched 4 Tails and used Jutsu to block the tailed beast bomb. Orochimaru did worse than Jiraiya because Jiraiya actually managed to supress the 4 Tails and Orochimaru only pushed it back
They literally fought in the anime and jiraiya lost trying to bring Orichimaru back to the village. This guy just loves Jiraiya at this point. Should’ve expected this since he said itachi would lose to him
I've been waiting for this video for so long. You even exolained why certain people didn't worry about genjutsu. Like...why madara never tried it on hashirama. He knew it wouldn't work
1) Manda had the upper hand on bunta and it was tsunade who stabbed manda. 2) U didn't considered reanimation in their fight 3) When oro left leaf jiraya confronted him but wasn't able to stop him. Also during the sanin deadlock it was 2v1 against oro with each sanin being nerfed, then too he gave them a tough fight. 4) Why refering orochimaru as they😅.
Because there was a gag in boruto where Mitsuki asked Orochimaru if he was his mom or dad. From what I have found it was intended to be a joke as he is neither because mitsuki is a clone. Also Orochimaru swaps bodies and he has done it with men and women. So certain people in the fan base consider him nonbinary, I can't find official proof of this since in Japanese he usually get male honorifics , and it doesn't seem to be confirmed. He also appears androgynous. I'm usually annoyed by the pronoun game but in this case I can see it. Because you can say they and he and both work
1) Manda while aggressive wasn't able to do any harm to either of their summons, but yes it was Tsunade who stabbed him, the casual collab fireball jutsu from Jiriya and Bunta outclasses anything he can do though. 2) Orochimaru probably wouldn't have time to get it off since Jiriya is a more physical fighter and his insanely fast aoe moves like Lions Mane that could help prevent him from preforming the technique. Even then his barrier Jutsu and better sealing jutsu gives him more options to deal with Edo Tensai than Hiruzen had. 3) We never get to see the fight in full but Jiriya was trying to stop Orochimaru from leaving not kill him, he was nerfed in a similar manner to Naruto vs Sasuke fight. But either way it was many years before even the Chunin exams so it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
@@BigHeadClan manda easily escaped through the Collab fireball so I don't think it outclasses him. Even the lion Mane didn't helped jiraya as oro was able to extend his neck to attack. So whatever attacks u gave to jiraya was already shown being countered by oro.
Also jiraiya was nerfed because he literally got drugged by tsunade but yea go off. Jiraiya legit prolly had sage mode by the time of this fight. He's like Naruto and never wanted orochimaru dead young.
@@Darkmagecurt talking about nerfs, orochimaru didn't had his hands. Even he had his hydra form and reanimation. Tho jiraya or Naruto didn't wanted to kill but they weren't even able to captured them. Even in part 1 tsunade with an intent to kill wasn't able to do it.
Nick, Manda actually was about to eat Gamabunta and Tsunade saved him impaling Manda through the top of his mouth. Also, didn't finished the video yet but I suspect a little Jiraya bias 😂😂. Also, in 4 tails fight Oro rebirth was used 2 or 3 times
you forgot to add hashirama and tobirama as orochimarus summonings, since hiruzen had to use reaper death seal to take them out while he was fighting a weaker orochimaru, i would argue that orochimaru would probably end up winning because of that added on to everything else you've mentioned
That would be true if we took the Hiruzen fight Orochimaru. Timeline wise Nick used the Orochimaru from the time of when they tried taking over Sasuke to when Itachi sealed them. Gave them a healthy body. Nick mentions Manda 2 over and over cus Manda died from the injuries of Deidara's C0. That means the Hokage aren't available either. Fun fact: Orochimaru & Jiraya died/got sealed the same day. Sasuke vs Itachi and Jiraya vs Pain took place simultaneously.
I agree, it’s wild to see him not mention Edo Tensei, one of Orochimaru jutsus that I believe no other person can use besides Tobirama. Not sure if Jiriyah has a counter against the 1st,2nd,3d,4th hokage. Nick mentions Jiriyah using sage mode with Ma and Pa, you might as well mention Orochimaru Edo Tensei that can “revive” the past hokages or any other person to counter him. I believe that feat is crazy op and unique
The funny thing is that you think that Jiraiya doesn't know the snake of the hidden leaf has the edo and don't know how to stop it which he can. put him under genjutsu he's done or put him in a frog's belly and reverse summon it and burn the contract done and done.
@@MrGordo730 we don't know that lmfao. He didn't even have Perfect Sage mode yet when he died and hadn't put chakra releases into rasengan yet. He wasn't done he just spent his time on his... passions in life lop.
These 2 characters are the definition of power crept. Jaraiya went from being a man that could go toe to toe with Kisame and Itachi, to someone who would lose to Kisame quite badly. Orchimaru went from being this huge master of countless ninjutsu to just this creepy dude that just won’t die.
???? I mean like yes there is power creep in the story but nothing Kisame has in terms of feats in the story prove he'd be able to win against Jiriya making his initial statement correct that he'd loose. The best case scenario for Kisame by the end of Shippuden has him just below Orochimaru and Jiriya. As for an Itachi & kisame vs Jiriya matchup, Jiriya has specific abilities that let him take on almost any number of opponent thanks to his various Barriers, Toad summoning's and Frog song if he is in sage mode. Not only that even when on deaths doors in his fight with Pain Fugaku confirmed Jiriya could have escaped despite being in the middle of enemy territory and against Pain himself. So the statement "it wouldn't matter if we call in reinforcements" is proven out on both accounts, he either could have fled with Naruto no matter what the Akatuski did or potentially wiped them all out if he managed to land a Frog Song in sage mode. Jiriya has a lot of hacks abilities especially ones that let him fight multiple opponents at the same time.
I'm pretty sure Jiriaya would fall to the same problem as Naruto in most of his fights against Sasuke, that he'd hold back from killing him, because of their shared past, only for Orochimaru to have no qualms against that. Also you didn't mention the Edo Tensei against Jiriaya.
There's a lot of good points in this video that I hadn't considered in my evaluation of these two, primarily that Jiraiya fought a stronger Pain than Naruto in almost every way. But, there are a few critical things that are wrong or oddly interpreted that I want to touch on: 1) Orochimaru's Summons definitely outrank Jiraiya's. Tsunade is the one that stabbed Manda with Chief's sword. In truth, that showing from Manda was one of the craziest in the series as he had the upper hand on Gamabunta and Katsuyu. Manda is arguably as big a threat as Orochimaru himself, and it's heavily implied that any version of Orochimaru without his arms is weaker than Manda. As an addendum, I personally believe that Ma and Pa are stronger than Gamabunta and Katsuyi--and also likely stronger than Manda, but Orochimaru + Manda is a comparable team to Jiraiya + Ma & Pa given that Manda is greater than or equal to Gamabunta + Katsuyu 2) Itachi. Itachi is argubaly a retcon in the series. Not because his story arc wasn't planned, but more-so because Kishimoto went out of his way to disguise Itachi's intentions at all times. Itachi and Kisame supposedly could not beat Jiraiya, but Itachi beat Orochimaru twice. This almost sounds convincing except for the fact that Itachi also beat a full-powered Nagato who Jiraiya presumably could not beat. We get into a bit of a scaling issue where Itachi can be significantly weaker than Jiraiya but also roughly equal to Nagato depending on the situation. I think it's commonly accepted that Itachi is stronger than all of the Sanin, but as someone who is an ally of the leaf, his actions don't give us the opportunity to scale anyone from him. He tends to fight decisively so he either destroys his opponent or makes the decision to retreat because he doesn't want the conflict. This basically only leaves us with how the two Sanin performed against Pain. While I believe Pain is stronger than Orochimaru and Jiraiya, I also think the circumstances in which Orochimaru fought the Deva Path did not give him an obvious win since Sasori was also present if I recall. It's another situation where we can't really scale Orochimaru and Jiraiya to each other since there is context in their performances (Jiraiya fighting for his life, and Orochimaru looking for a good opportunity to strike). 3) Chakra Control. Jiraiya is not a perfect Sage precisely because he does not have good Chakra control if I recall. Him needing Ma & Pa to help gather and mold the nature energy is why he never became a perfect Sage. I think if you're going to be charitable to Jiraiya, this doesn't really matter since he's better off having Ma & Pa than not, but this does mean that we should give Orochimaru more credit on his Ninjutsu. With his arms, chakra control, and versatility, Orochimaru should be able to output a good counter for any ninjutsu or summoning that Jiraiya has for him. 4) Orochimaru is susceptible to the Sharingan, but he also has a 5 in Genjutsu and mentored Tayuya who has a very powerful sound based genjutsu in her own right. It's tough to give Jiraiya credit for Toad Song and use the data book to justify a stat difference for physicality, while ignorning the genjutsu stats and Orochimaru's obvious history with sound based genjutsu. In truth, the Sharingan has been shown time and time again to be the pinnacle of Genjutsu. Saying one is susceptible to the Sharingan is not equivalent to any other Jutsu. This is territory where your interpretation very well might be correct, and I respect the narrative you've constructed for the video, but it could easily go either way. Orochimaru could have bodily modifications to counter sound based genjutsu due to experiments with Tayuya, and it's also possible that he would be caught off guard and killed with a Rasengan. Overall, I think if this fight were written/animated, it would really come down to Sage Jiraiya vs. the 8 branches. And in that scenario, I find it tough to vote against the 8 branches just based on the lore of it being Orochimaru's most powerful technique. He competed with everyone else without ever using this, and even seemed to be confident that he could beat Itachi until he got sealed away. Perhaps it was due to Itachi being weakened, but since Orochimaru was always a coy fighter and never showed his hand, I would bet on him.
Your research into the series is unrivaled. Really props to you. The only criticism I have is that you call orochimaru a they or them when it’s clearly stated throughout the entire series that he is a he. Even though he did take over the body of women here and there. He always remained a he and was referred to as he. Often it was stated “his next vessel”.
Orochimaru beats Jiraiya handily. He didn't even talk about Edo Tensei. Sage Mode needs preparation time he won't have in battle of normal environment. Jiraiya's strongest jutsu is literally tanked by Orochimaru (assuming he'll have the mobility and chance to hit him with it). He can't be killed.
Jiraiya doesn't need prep time he has mom and pops and Jiraiya didn't use his strongest attack against that slippery snake because one of he's strongest attack is with mom and pops or and he's summoning abilities.
Itschi is stronger than obito and nagsto stated multiple times even by kishimoto himself in the authors note. So many errors in this videos who is this clown lmao
This gotta be the most cornball response I've ever seen, have you even seen Orochimaru? Lost brain cells trying to understand how you're so easily triggered 🤡
@@fucknames for sure I'm just addressing when he said "very few sages...." But then named off 3 that (which is most of the sages we know about) the sanin and their successors (6) hirozen, haguromo, the first hokage
Without the clones standing still gathering nature energy even hashirama had to stay still on his wood golem to gather nature energy the only character is jugo who's body gathers nature energy passively
@jades5772 so at 1 point he was a she, and went back to he and stayed he but because years ago he was she now he's they? Ur making a political statement
A somewhat minor feat for Orochimaru that'd I'd like to add is after the Sannin fight Hanzo, whilst all three of them are "still standing", Orochimaru is the only one who's standing without support as Tsunade and Jiraiya are leaning on each other
Idk when Tsunade hit orochimaru that was combat. When Tsunade hit Jaraiya. She hit him like a woman scorned, that's a different strength. Point being I don't think Tunades hit was trying to hit him to kill but to injure. I think she legit tried to kill jaraiya for peeping.
You should watch the fight between Manda, Katsuyu and Gamabunta again. Tsunade was the one who stabbed Manda with the sword. Manda was way more impressive than Gamabunta in that fight.
Personal head cannon says that jiriaya wasn’t prepared or “flexing” when hit by tsunade so he took more damage. Orochi was definitely on guard and bracing himself from tsunades attacks 🤷🏽♂️
Bruh either way orchimaru osnway more durable then orchimaru. Head Canon orchimaru wpuld only due to narutos tail beast bomb was because he was weakened all ready and a healthy orchimaru would be fine
Your videos are always so interesting and entertaining, but if you could talk a tiny bit slower I would be able to follow what you're saying easier. You talk so fast that my brain struggles to keep up 😅
0:33 Griffith and Berserk. Ah yes, Berserk. The protagonist of the manga Berserk. My favourite part is when he says I’M GOING BERSERK and berserks all over the place
This just reminds me how crazy it is that orochimaru still can summon, use his snake and body swapping jutsus even after the hokage used the reaper death seal 😅
Love your videos, you really understand Kishimoto and the story line. I love all your content, your brilliant. I have an idea I thought about for your next video. Ranking dads in the Naruto verse. I'd like to start the ranking off with #1 MVD (most valuable dad) Shukaku and in 2nd probably Minato.
Well, one of the arguments about Jiraya nearly dying to Tsunade, we never know if it's when he's older and more experienced, or younger and possibly even pre-Hanzo fight tho...
I think they could still touch on this in Boruto.
Yamato reports Orochimaru blatantly leaves his home arrest.
Naruto tells him not to pursue he knows where he is.
He finds orochimaru paying his respects at the grave of his greatest rival.
that would be pretty cool bro to see him at jiraiyas grave sight
That hit me in the feels a lot more than I thought it would. I like it. Headcanon for now.
Didn’t they take Jiraiya’s body for Kashin Koji though? I could be wrong so don’t lash out pls. 😢😢
Orochimaru has never done anything sentimental like that lol
@@HeroSword_P that's why this would be touching to see
I realized that Tsunade is the only Sannin that doesn't have a clone.
Sakura be like 😮…. Jk jk I’m a sakura Stan don’t attack me
Sakura trainer enough under Tsunade to basically be here clone just different DNA 🤣
Yet
@@user-yc7tv8hc5b 😂🤣😂🤣😭😭😭
And Jiraya the only one not trying to hide his age 🤔
It's sad that Jiraya didnt live long enought to see Orochimaru comeing back to good side. Imagine him meeting Log and Mitsuki. 😭😭😭
I wouldn’t say Orochimaru is on the good side.
@@sephirian688 At best he just isn't entirely evil anymore. He doesn't do anything illegal. As long as no one thinks about it too hard.
He is more like a chaotic neutral character.
@@fr0stdr4ke95agreed not a good guy but not necessarily evil anymore.
Like he is technically under house arrest in Boruto because Naruto doesn’t really trust him to not do evil stuff lol
Current Orochimaru is....neutral
What I have realized is that both Jiraiya and Orochimaru have clones.
Mitsuki and Kashin Koji.
….
And the power difference is roughly the opposite of their original templates (Kashin being the stronger one in this case)
@@DTheCriticalno. Current mitsuki spanks kashin
Let's be real, all the main OG Naruto characters have clones in Boruto...
@@sonnywilson748 he was saying that their powers are opposite of the person they are copied from
As in mitsuki was weaker than orochimaru and kashin kogi is stronger than jiraya
It was actually Tsunade who pinned Manda to the ground with the sword in the 3way deadlock
I still miss jiraiya all these years later
That’s why he came back as a clone because his toad arts are the best and most classic combat scenes to watch
@@kleatise52*penis wiener* 😩
I accept the clone all right But the old man could still be alive the time traveling turtle could’ve saved him right😢😢😢😢
koji kashin in boruto is really cool to watch, and he’ll definitely get his jiraya memories back since it was teased a while ago.
I just can’t wait for the naruto reunion
@@kjthagawd5619 I really hope so. I got real empathy for these characters. They’ve been through so much trauma and they deserve to come back to life and see the peace that’s been created. I know the plot might be a little tarnished by characters coming back but I don’t care.😢😢😢 I really hope Sasuke brother is still alive. Somehow I know it’s ridiculous but that poor boy he was just a kid when he died.
Ah yes Griffith and berserk the most iconic of age old rivalries
Exactly lmaoo
They’re Griffith & Guts, Nick…With love.
I laughed a bit more than I probably should 😂
I always have to question when he does something like that if it’s an actual blind spot or an engagement driver. He’s admitted to it a couple times in either shorts or the podcast, but never the exact thing.
@@MostlyHappyGaming oh I haven’t seen a video where he agrees on it, but hey, makes sense!
It's worse when he calls orichimaru a they. Even worse when he gets confused and calls him a he afterwards lol
@@nickboaz9629 ehh, Orochimaru was definitely male at some point, but is using a female body at the moment, and does not seem to have a strong connection to either gender, so they works fairly well for them.
Gotta take into consideration that jaraiya was not trying to hurt naruto in 4tails Cloak
Oorochimaru was not trying to kill Itachi, he wanted to take over his body
Well, we actually saw both of the fights and they were pretty instantaneous stomps. In the first Itachi pinned him in a Sharingan genjutsu before he could even get off his first attack and then cut off his arm. The second, he decapitated seven of the eight heads of the Eight Branches technique and then absorbed and sealed him with Totsuka no Tsurugi, Itachi did not waste time. Orochimaru not wanting to kill Itachi made zero difference in the outcome.
Both Orochimaru and Jiraiya are Imperfect Sages.
I mean technically Orochimaru couldn't even properly use sage mode, the last body he has in the war arc got majorly amped.
Orochimaru can't enter sage mode it's stated he couldn't when he was bit by the great snake sage he was lucky to even escape, that's why he made mitsuki
@@superjedi4206Orochimaru now can enter sage, he has a zetsu body which is better than Mitsuki and kabuto put together
@@orochimarupr yes but this is in response to the video, where it's orochimaru before the zetsu body
@@orochimarupr I should've said but I'm talking about the orochimaru that Nick is using for the versus
I thought Tsunade was the one who stabbed Manda through the head with Gamabunta's sword.
This is definitely what actually happened
She was
Is orichimaru ever once called they/them in manga? Because I know he is for sure referred to as he multiple times so I’m confused where you get the whole calling him “they” thing? Him stealing a girls body doesn’t make him no longer himself lol.
It’s a joke it’s not that serious lol
Of course, not.
facts
I think the joke was that he meant it literally, as in more than one person (constantly taking over other people's bodies), not a joke about his androgenous look.
It's annoying
Did you just assign orchimaru pro nouns 🤣
He loves his headcanon.
They/them works pretty well for Orochimaru if you consider that they don't care about gender presentation and will gladly operate within a physically 'male or female' body without issue either way.
It's a valid headcanon all things considered
@@NekoChanRules Not really. I don’t think Orochimaru cares which gender you see him as. By referring to him in that way, you’re just doing it to fulfill your own desires, not his. He simply wouldn’t care about it like that.
@@nessatic Do you need a hug?? You seem bitter about something
Jiraiya being almost beaten to death by Tsunade is a common trope in shounen anime. The male allowing himself to be beaten by the female. He didn't try to fight back or defend himself against her, so it doesn't really count.
Tsunami literally BROKE madras’s susanoo with one punch
@@ramonsanders651so the susanoo is slow jiraiya isn't he's not just going to stand there in a real fight
Nah stop downplaying Tsunade mate. She’s super OP. Super strength and pretty much immortal with seal. Jiraiya = lost to Pain. Tsunade = caught 5 Susano’o Madara clones and LIVED.
@@Itsuchi2 I think the point that he’s trying to make is that they weren’t having a real fight.
On my point as always couldn't agree more. And you chose the best timeline for comparison to make it fair
If we're talking about 4th Great Ninja War Orochimaru, then he stomps.
Fuck no 😂
Orchimaru stomped Tsunade and Jiraiya simultaneously without any jutsu or arms in OG Naruto. It wasn't even close. The only reason why Orchimaru lost, is because Naruto is OP.
No but everyone knows the saying don’t fuck with the old man in amine and the old man in the line of work where they die young 💯
im sorry orochimaru isn't beating 4 paths of pain
@@SlayingSinbut jiraiya was poisoned and could barely mold chakra at all so they were probably equally nerfed
I love seeing Orochimaru get some recognition and respect kuz holy shit is that man/woman/whatever tf slept on like the whole fan base just overlooks him or forget about him and it’s like bro is cracked and operates on higher iq than more than 95% of the verse and he’s the all knowing everything while being immortal 🗿also I’d assume he’s great at kenjutsu because sasuke had to learn how to use a sword frm someone👀
Yeah same here man I hate seeing him be underrated. He taught sasuke everything that sasuke knows in Shippuden plus the longer he lives the more op he gets.
Yeah.
And yes, he's one of the top kenjutsu users -Remember his fight against his older clone/son in Boruto. And ofc he teached Sasuke.
Calling orochimaru "they" through the whole video confused the hell out of me😂
Why is he though? Haven't found any source confirming that orochimaru has preferred pronouns, or even subscribes to this ideology.
@@pindorama2609 ok? I'm just saying the word "they" used to refer to two or more people.
I felt the same. But I'm guessing cause oorochimaru, has taken over female bodies as well. So God knows what he is at this point. Lol
@@jaykun182 it's just because orochimaru was never specified to be a man or woman 🤷
@@wisdomdude2701 he definitely was. They call him he throughout the show.
Orochimaru can't even escape Itachi's Genjutsu. I think he'll be caught off guard against Jiraiya's Genjutsu.
Itachis genjutsu is better than jiraiyas genjutsu tho
Yeah, and Jiraiya stares itatchi right in the eyes every time they encounter each other.
@@Smd88no it’s not, sound based genjutsu is op asf in the narutoverse
@@ZeroGoofs It absolutely is. The fact sound is more versatile does not make it stronger.
Dog nobody escapes Itachi
Orochimaru definitely has more jutsu to use, but I think jariya has more raw power, and of course sage mode.
I forgot that scene where Orochimaru gave Jiraiya a hickey.
I refuse to believe that post 4th great war/Boruto Orochimaru can't use sage mode, dude literally has one of the strongest bodies ever
It's not just about the body. CZcamsr is just want. Orochimaru is basically not worthy. And can't get into that calm and clarity that sage mode requires. Cause he's out of his mind.
Bro is calling Orochimaru "they/them" 😂
That’s cause they are
Orochimaru is referred to as him by his peers though. It's Naruto fans that push the trans agenda that made him nonbinary. Not saying it's a big deal or anything, just giving clarity
@@willsinko4236no, he isn't.
I thinks it's because orochimaru has taken female body's not just male body's so to be fair
By the time Boruto came around Orochimaru does not refer to themselves as any gender nor do the people around them. They also call themselves mitsuki's parent, not father. I beleive orochimaru is non-binary now.@@BusterOlsen
Nick I am sending you my medical bill. I took a shot every time you said toe to toe in this video and now I am having my stomach pumped
Ooooo Nick is doing vs battles now... Dangerous path to take shits about to get controversial I can't wait
Reminder that Jiraiya doesn’t have regeneration when fighting Naruto. So he beat 4 Tails Naruto and used a sealing jutsu to beat 4 Tails Naruto while Orochimaru just sent him away and ran away-Yamato was the one who had to calm him down.
You also have to remember jiriya wasn't hindered when he fought 4 tails naruto and almost died.... where Orochimaru was able to keep 4 tails naruto a bay, without his hands, because of Hiruzen so he couldn't use any of strong jutsu
Jiraiya wasn'y fighting 4 tails, he was containing 4 tails and making sure it doesn't get hurt. That's a huge difference.
@@joshuachudley1270pretty sure Jiraya wasn't trying to kill Naruto. He had to fight the 4 tail cloak without harming Naruto or let it harm others.
@@Camera728 orochimaru also wasn't trying to kill naruto, killing him would be useless for body snatching or experimentation , because kurama would be released on death. That's another reason not to kill him as well.
@@joshuachudley1270What? Orochi clearly can use his hands again when he fought 4 Tails Naruto. He literally punched 4 Tails and used Jutsu to block the tailed beast bomb. Orochimaru did worse than Jiraiya because Jiraiya actually managed to supress the 4 Tails and Orochimaru only pushed it back
Nice to have you back. I hope you enjoy your trip to China and Spain.
That los santos customs joke was even better than it normally would be because i was screwing around in gta 5 while listening to this video😂
They literally fought in the anime and jiraiya lost trying to bring Orichimaru back to the village. This guy just loves Jiraiya at this point. Should’ve expected this since he said itachi would lose to him
Funny that the data book has jiraiya as stronger than orochimaru
Your intros and outros are always perfect 😅😅.....
You had to give him a win😂😂😂
NCHammer must know Flying Raijin, cause he was in Spain in the last video. 🙃
I read the first part of your sentence and thought you meant his talking speed. Bro blitzes through subjects with ease
@@oscarlinderbrandt6870 Considering that I listen to his videos at 2x speed, that's also true. 😆
Thank you for doing Jiraiya justice! Good and very fair video
Goku and Krillin still rockin 🤞
I've been waiting for this video for so long. You even exolained why certain people didn't worry about genjutsu. Like...why madara never tried it on hashirama. He knew it wouldn't work
1) Manda had the upper hand on bunta and it was tsunade who stabbed manda.
2) U didn't considered reanimation in their fight
3) When oro left leaf jiraya confronted him but wasn't able to stop him. Also during the sanin deadlock it was 2v1 against oro with each sanin being nerfed, then too he gave them a tough fight.
4) Why refering orochimaru as they😅.
Because there was a gag in boruto where Mitsuki asked Orochimaru if he was his mom or dad.
From what I have found it was intended to be a joke as he is neither because mitsuki is a clone.
Also Orochimaru swaps bodies and he has done it with men and women.
So certain people in the fan base consider him nonbinary, I can't find official proof of this since in Japanese he usually get male honorifics , and it doesn't seem to be confirmed.
He also appears androgynous.
I'm usually annoyed by the pronoun game but in this case I can see it.
Because you can say they and he and both work
1) Manda while aggressive wasn't able to do any harm to either of their summons, but yes it was Tsunade who stabbed him, the casual collab fireball jutsu from Jiriya and Bunta outclasses anything he can do though.
2) Orochimaru probably wouldn't have time to get it off since Jiriya is a more physical fighter and his insanely fast aoe moves like Lions Mane that could help prevent him from preforming the technique. Even then his barrier Jutsu and better sealing jutsu gives him more options to deal with Edo Tensai than Hiruzen had.
3) We never get to see the fight in full but Jiriya was trying to stop Orochimaru from leaving not kill him, he was nerfed in a similar manner to Naruto vs Sasuke fight. But either way it was many years before even the Chunin exams so it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
@@BigHeadClan manda easily escaped through the Collab fireball so I don't think it outclasses him.
Even the lion Mane didn't helped jiraya as oro was able to extend his neck to attack. So whatever attacks u gave to jiraya was already shown being countered by oro.
Also jiraiya was nerfed because he literally got drugged by tsunade but yea go off. Jiraiya legit prolly had sage mode by the time of this fight. He's like Naruto and never wanted orochimaru dead young.
@@Darkmagecurt talking about nerfs, orochimaru didn't had his hands. Even he had his hydra form and reanimation. Tho jiraya or Naruto didn't wanted to kill but they weren't even able to captured them. Even in part 1 tsunade with an intent to kill wasn't able to do it.
Now imagine if Hiruzen had raised Naruto like he had promised Minato he would.
Nick: "In this Legendary battle of Sannin who comes out on top?"
Me: "Tsunade 😏"
Tsunade is definetly a top
Bro, you're literally the GOAT of Naruto/boruto/animé content. I look forward to seeing your content everyday
Who the f**k is they and them. Orochimura is 1 person. Its really throwing me off😂😂😂 He's a dude, just same he and him damn.
tell 'em
Correct!
I was thinking the same thing
It’s a joke because Orichimaru is a Famother
Nick, Manda actually was about to eat Gamabunta and Tsunade saved him impaling Manda through the top of his mouth. Also, didn't finished the video yet but I suspect a little Jiraya bias 😂😂. Also, in 4 tails fight Oro rebirth was used 2 or 3 times
Heavy Jiraiya bias.
You’re a blessing brother. I don’t even like Naruto. BUT… have seen it and both these characters happen to be my favorites
you forgot to add hashirama and tobirama as orochimarus summonings,
since hiruzen had to use reaper death seal to take them out while he was fighting a weaker orochimaru, i would argue that orochimaru would probably end up winning because of that added on to everything else you've mentioned
That would be true if we took the Hiruzen fight Orochimaru. Timeline wise Nick used the Orochimaru from the time of when they tried taking over Sasuke to when Itachi sealed them. Gave them a healthy body. Nick mentions Manda 2 over and over cus Manda died from the injuries of Deidara's C0. That means the Hokage aren't available either.
Fun fact: Orochimaru & Jiraya died/got sealed the same day. Sasuke vs Itachi and Jiraya vs Pain took place simultaneously.
I agree, it’s wild to see him not mention Edo Tensei, one of Orochimaru jutsus that I believe no other person can use besides Tobirama. Not sure if Jiriyah has a counter against the 1st,2nd,3d,4th hokage. Nick mentions Jiriyah using sage mode with Ma and Pa, you might as well mention Orochimaru Edo Tensei that can “revive” the past hokages or any other person to counter him. I believe that feat is crazy op and unique
The funny thing is that you think that Jiraiya doesn't know the snake of the hidden leaf has the edo and don't know how to stop it which he can. put him under genjutsu he's done or put him in a frog's belly and reverse summon it and burn the contract done and done.
@@StickMasterKaiKabuto
@@MyBeardBroyea and Orochimaru just stabs Jiraiya with kusanagi sword and it's done
I wish we got the fight between these two men, it would have been awesome
Think this is a pretty fair assessment.
Nick really said “Griffith & Berserk” come on man
Unrelated to the videos content itself (great stuff btw) your eyelashes are really poppin!!! Makes your eyes look amazing and stand out.
All orochimaru has to do is be in his girl form to give jiraiya a truly deadly noise bleed
Only real answer
Heck even better, Orochimaru could just transform use Sexy Jutsu and use Tsunades image haha.
I appreciate The details on this hypothetical fight. I was thinking some things. And then you touched on those during your explanations
If you don't have a friend in Guantanamo Bay... you might be that friend.
Amazing breakdown, per usual! This was a great one.
The fact that orochimaru has to be nerfed so much to make this fight close to fair tells us who is the better ninja
I mean in large part that because while Jiraiya was ded Orochi got amped tf up lmfao.
@@lucario2able Honestly though, even if he stayed alive, he had no way of catching up to orochimaru anyway 🤷♂️
@@MrGordo730 we don't know that lmfao. He didn't even have Perfect Sage mode yet when he died and hadn't put chakra releases into rasengan yet. He wasn't done he just spent his time on his... passions in life lop.
Possibly theory, could jiraiya be Edotensied using kashin kojis DNA. They are the same person genetically
I'd assume their souls are different, like if they were identical twins, I'd say.
@@jakemoore5077 but that's also under the assumption that kashin koji has a soul
These 2 characters are the definition of power crept. Jaraiya went from being a man that could go toe to toe with Kisame and Itachi, to someone who would lose to Kisame quite badly. Orchimaru went from being this huge master of countless ninjutsu to just this creepy dude that just won’t die.
???? I mean like yes there is power creep in the story but nothing Kisame has in terms of feats in the story prove he'd be able to win against Jiriya making his initial statement correct that he'd loose. The best case scenario for Kisame by the end of Shippuden has him just below Orochimaru and Jiriya.
As for an Itachi & kisame vs Jiriya matchup, Jiriya has specific abilities that let him take on almost any number of opponent thanks to his various Barriers, Toad summoning's and Frog song if he is in sage mode. Not only that even when on deaths doors in his fight with Pain Fugaku confirmed Jiriya could have escaped despite being in the middle of enemy territory and against Pain himself.
So the statement "it wouldn't matter if we call in reinforcements" is proven out on both accounts, he either could have fled with Naruto no matter what the Akatuski did or potentially wiped them all out if he managed to land a Frog Song in sage mode. Jiriya has a lot of hacks abilities especially ones that let him fight multiple opponents at the same time.
Keep doing content like this!! Love the vid, glad you brought it back!
Orochimaru is WASHING jiraiya and it’s literally no competition. I do love me some jiraiya tho
No way bro. I was sick when the Jiraya Vs Itachi video came out, and today, this video comes out while Im sick. Crazy
I'm pretty sure Jiriaya would fall to the same problem as Naruto in most of his fights against Sasuke, that he'd hold back from killing him, because of their shared past, only for Orochimaru to have no qualms against that. Also you didn't mention the Edo Tensei against Jiriaya.
Cuz it’s him vs orochimaru why would orochimaru just summon the first hokage to do everything for him would be very boring
lol why does it keep calling oriochimaru them they ? cant watch the video like this
Orochimaru is a man, how is hard is that to understand my dude? STOP saying they/their
There's a lot of good points in this video that I hadn't considered in my evaluation of these two, primarily that Jiraiya fought a stronger Pain than Naruto in almost every way. But, there are a few critical things that are wrong or oddly interpreted that I want to touch on:
1) Orochimaru's Summons definitely outrank Jiraiya's. Tsunade is the one that stabbed Manda with Chief's sword. In truth, that showing from Manda was one of the craziest in the series as he had the upper hand on Gamabunta and Katsuyu. Manda is arguably as big a threat as Orochimaru himself, and it's heavily implied that any version of Orochimaru without his arms is weaker than Manda.
As an addendum, I personally believe that Ma and Pa are stronger than Gamabunta and Katsuyi--and also likely stronger than Manda, but Orochimaru + Manda is a comparable team to Jiraiya + Ma & Pa given that Manda is greater than or equal to Gamabunta + Katsuyu
2) Itachi. Itachi is argubaly a retcon in the series. Not because his story arc wasn't planned, but more-so because Kishimoto went out of his way to disguise Itachi's intentions at all times. Itachi and Kisame supposedly could not beat Jiraiya, but Itachi beat Orochimaru twice. This almost sounds convincing except for the fact that Itachi also beat a full-powered Nagato who Jiraiya presumably could not beat. We get into a bit of a scaling issue where Itachi can be significantly weaker than Jiraiya but also roughly equal to Nagato depending on the situation.
I think it's commonly accepted that Itachi is stronger than all of the Sanin, but as someone who is an ally of the leaf, his actions don't give us the opportunity to scale anyone from him. He tends to fight decisively so he either destroys his opponent or makes the decision to retreat because he doesn't want the conflict.
This basically only leaves us with how the two Sanin performed against Pain. While I believe Pain is stronger than Orochimaru and Jiraiya, I also think the circumstances in which Orochimaru fought the Deva Path did not give him an obvious win since Sasori was also present if I recall. It's another situation where we can't really scale Orochimaru and Jiraiya to each other since there is context in their performances (Jiraiya fighting for his life, and Orochimaru looking for a good opportunity to strike).
3) Chakra Control. Jiraiya is not a perfect Sage precisely because he does not have good Chakra control if I recall. Him needing Ma & Pa to help gather and mold the nature energy is why he never became a perfect Sage. I think if you're going to be charitable to Jiraiya, this doesn't really matter since he's better off having Ma & Pa than not, but this does mean that we should give Orochimaru more credit on his Ninjutsu. With his arms, chakra control, and versatility, Orochimaru should be able to output a good counter for any ninjutsu or summoning that Jiraiya has for him.
4) Orochimaru is susceptible to the Sharingan, but he also has a 5 in Genjutsu and mentored Tayuya who has a very powerful sound based genjutsu in her own right. It's tough to give Jiraiya credit for Toad Song and use the data book to justify a stat difference for physicality, while ignorning the genjutsu stats and Orochimaru's obvious history with sound based genjutsu. In truth, the Sharingan has been shown time and time again to be the pinnacle of Genjutsu. Saying one is susceptible to the Sharingan is not equivalent to any other Jutsu. This is territory where your interpretation very well might be correct, and I respect the narrative you've constructed for the video, but it could easily go either way. Orochimaru could have bodily modifications to counter sound based genjutsu due to experiments with Tayuya, and it's also possible that he would be caught off guard and killed with a Rasengan.
Overall, I think if this fight were written/animated, it would really come down to Sage Jiraiya vs. the 8 branches. And in that scenario, I find it tough to vote against the 8 branches just based on the lore of it being Orochimaru's most powerful technique. He competed with everyone else without ever using this, and even seemed to be confident that he could beat Itachi until he got sealed away. Perhaps it was due to Itachi being weakened, but since Orochimaru was always a coy fighter and never showed his hand, I would bet on him.
Your research into the series is unrivaled. Really props to you.
The only criticism I have is that you call orochimaru a they or them when it’s clearly stated throughout the entire series that he is a he. Even though he did take over the body of women here and there. He always remained a he and was referred to as he. Often it was stated “his next vessel”.
Thank you. I was about to say the same thing.
Cause Boruto
Why do you keep call him they bro it’s only one person
Orochimaru beats Jiraiya handily.
He didn't even talk about Edo Tensei.
Sage Mode needs preparation time he won't have in battle of normal environment.
Jiraiya's strongest jutsu is literally tanked by Orochimaru (assuming he'll have the mobility and chance to hit him with it). He can't be killed.
Jiraiya doesn't need prep time he has mom and pops and Jiraiya didn't use his strongest attack against that slippery snake because one of he's strongest attack is with mom and pops or and he's summoning abilities.
@@MyBeardBro He does, he needed to seclude himself in a tunnel for minutes.
I never said anything of not using his strongest against Orochimaru.
Itschi is stronger than obito and nagsto stated multiple times even by kishimoto himself in the authors note. So many errors in this videos who is this clown lmao
Never thought nick would bring up Berserk. I can rest easy now
would you ever do a Sasuke vs Hashirama video? i feel like nobody talks about that matchup but it would be so good lol
Accidentally says he and his a bunch 😂. Enough with the they/them crap.
No way youre referring to an anime character as a they… what has this world come to
This gotta be the most cornball response I've ever seen, have you even seen Orochimaru? Lost brain cells trying to understand how you're so easily triggered 🤡
I mean, orochimaru has been reincarnated as women men and neither so ‘they’ kinda does fit
You forgot that naruto also can fight while gathering nature energy.
Shadow clones can collect energy for him yeah but jayra ain’t good as Naruto he probably can’t mix it fast enough
@@fucknames for sure I'm just addressing when he said "very few sages...." But then named off 3 that (which is most of the sages we know about) the sanin and their successors (6) hirozen, haguromo, the first hokage
Without the clones standing still gathering nature energy even hashirama had to stay still on his wood golem to gather nature energy the only character is jugo who's body gathers nature energy passively
I’m so happy to get the props and info orochi deserves. Gotta be my favorite character
Orochimaru is a he not a they. Don't know why u had to go and gender swap him.
Because He is both male and female he has used a female body before
But his birth gender was male
@jades5772 so at 1 point he was a she, and went back to he and stayed he but because years ago he was she now he's they? Ur making a political statement
@@brycebranch9639 it seems like it because He dont lose the other capitylitys
He just tryna stay away from ppl getting mad for no reason
Ah yes the person who literally switches bodies with people can only be deemed a man
The Sannin that comes out on top is clearly Tsunade.
The cartoon network logo at the first scene.😢
Keep up the awesome work and videos Nick love the video
its a shame we diddnt get more fights from Jirayia. show us more of his arsenal.
Are we just going to overlook the fact that Nick might know someone in Guantanamo bay?
A somewhat minor feat for Orochimaru that'd I'd like to add is after the Sannin fight Hanzo, whilst all three of them are "still standing", Orochimaru is the only one who's standing without support as Tsunade and Jiraiya are leaning on each other
Dang, editor really got everything he could out of that clip of Oro punching 4-tailed Naruto.
Idk when Tsunade hit orochimaru that was combat. When Tsunade hit Jaraiya. She hit him like a woman scorned, that's a different strength. Point being I don't think Tunades hit was trying to hit him to kill but to injure. I think she legit tried to kill jaraiya for peeping.
You should watch the fight between Manda, Katsuyu and Gamabunta again. Tsunade was the one who stabbed Manda with the sword. Manda was way more impressive than Gamabunta in that fight.
If Tsunade could put the sword into manda's head gamabunta could too
took me 12min to realize you were saying they/them referring to Orochimaru 😅🤣
Personal head cannon says that jiriaya wasn’t prepared or “flexing” when hit by tsunade so he took more damage. Orochi was definitely on guard and bracing himself from tsunades attacks 🤷🏽♂️
Bruh either way orchimaru osnway more durable then orchimaru. Head Canon orchimaru wpuld only due to narutos tail beast bomb was because he was weakened all ready and a healthy orchimaru would be fine
Bro you have a talent of stretching a 5-10 minutes video all the way to half an hour
Gotta like how Nick is switching from He to They with orochinaru every 2 minutes
Your videos are always so interesting and entertaining, but if you could talk a tiny bit slower I would be able to follow what you're saying easier. You talk so fast that my brain struggles to keep up 😅
lets play a game! take a shot every time he says Orochimaru
0:33 Griffith and Berserk.
Ah yes, Berserk. The protagonist of the manga Berserk. My favourite part is when he says I’M GOING BERSERK and berserks all over the place
Couldnt the orochimaru in buruto (base of the 3 requirements you stated) achieve snake sage mode?
That’s what I’m saying he’s got the body everyone keeps say welp his body but then WHY CANT HE USE IT IN BORUTO😂
This was an amazing video! Please do more versus battles in the future! Especially do one featuring Kabuto vs Obito
Came for the clickbait, stayed for the thirst traps 😂
Orochimaru is not a @they”, he his canonically a man
What is an "@they"
@@professorpengu502 typo. It was supposed to say “they”
You need to enter a speed talking competition
This just reminds me how crazy it is that orochimaru still can summon, use his snake and body swapping jutsus even after the hokage used the reaper death seal 😅
Love your videos, you really understand Kishimoto and the story line. I love all your content, your brilliant. I have an idea I thought about for your next video. Ranking dads in the Naruto verse. I'd like to start the ranking off with #1 MVD (most valuable dad) Shukaku and in 2nd probably Minato.
Jiraiya= Batman with enough prep time he could beat anyone 😂
Legendary fight but I think it ends with Orochimaru slithering away as a small snake before Jiraya ends him
need more what ifs // vs
Ya know, i dont even have to watch this to know Orochimaru slaps
Especially if you use best form of each, Orochimaru wins no diff
Unfortunately NC think he's not
@@impalerofwallachia2924yeah, unfortunately while I trust him on Naruto knowledge, i rarely put any faith into his words in terms of versus battles.
Well, one of the arguments about Jiraya nearly dying to Tsunade, we never know if it's when he's older and more experienced, or younger and possibly even pre-Hanzo fight tho...
We need a “What if Orochimaru was the fourth Hokage?”
Awesome as always thanks ❤
The final comment shows that Nick is biased because he likes Kashin Koji lol. Seriously though, Orochimaru wins mid-high diff.