love this style of videos man! If you even made a whole series of videos on drift setup, little odd things about arms and toe curves weird stuff like that. i would pay money to watch and learn something
More videos like this please! Hard to find brutally honest, technical info from pros for anything these days. P.S. Did you have to let Vaughn win last year?
I went to Chelsea’s school of drift in Stockton California and I lost all my notes and footage from that day and I come back to these videos every month and I’m always learning something new
I feel like this is pretty common sense for anyone that understands what suspension geometry looks like. Instead of the question, "what spring rate" ask "how does suspension geometry work." You'll learn a lot more with that question and Chelsea helped answer that.
Great video! Been building coilovers for my soon to be drift-spec/stance Volvo 960, and i've used the "trial and error" method. ~12k in front and 5k,9k soon 12k in the rear! The geometry of the 960 multilink suspension is weeeeird...
I'm going to fwd this video on to every stance kid that asks me about spring rates and coilovers on their moms hand me down e46 323 automatic "race car" thanks for coming out and saying what I've been telling the local kids for ever, it's not a simple answer.
Thank you so much... I'm not one to ask many questions. You have just swooped in and taught me a lesson ❤️❤️ I love suspension and really enjoy your videos going into detail on the little things
Another factor Chelsea didnt mention is how much horsepower/torque your car makes. Lets say both cars are the same make and model, but one makes 192hp/180.6lb.-ft vs 432hp/390.2lb.-ft for example. You would have two different spring rates for both cars. Stiffer springs can also add grip or allow tires to break grip easier.
Thanks for shared knowledge. Maybe next educatinal video could be how diffrent combinations of suspension parts relate to divability. Like stiff shock + soft spring and med sway bar in the back and soft shock + hard spring in the front and vice versa. Hope you get the idea. Cheers m8
Some of us still hit you up just to see what your up to and how you are and have been...but not enough of us obviously LoL stay safe brother man thanks again for signing our kids giveaway prize at Bash To The Future in Medford. Hope to see you again at the track sometime soon.
Great job explaining this topic, and going into depth about each aspect that needs to be considered. I have a question about spring rates, but it goes beyond your discussion points. So, if you’re familiar with a concept called ‘Flat Ride’, or ‘Fast Settling’, one of the keys to having a chassis with a Flat Ride setup is that the rear axle frequency needs to be higher than the front axle frequency. Various people mention different ratios, but the original person who presented the concept (Maurice Olley) says the rear axle ratio should be 20% higher. So, given this concept, and having a divorced spring setup (E36 M3) with a rear motion ratio of 54%, the rear springs must be significantly higher than the front to achieve this Flat Ride ratio, right? For example, with the stock springs, the E36 front spring rate is around 100lb/in, and the rear springs are around 230lb/in. But continuing this concept of a 20% higher frequency, if the front springs are 400lb/in, the rear would need to be something like 880lb/in, so with the motion ratio included, the spring rate at the wheel would be 475lb/in, or roughly 20% higher than the front. Does this make sense, or am I still confused?
Installing your suspension will take longer than watching this video 🙄 If you don't have 14 minutes to research before spending $1000-2000, you've officially failed the marshmallow test.
Not gonna lie this helped me out a ton to tune my cars for ac and forza as well as in irl thanks man i might be ordering shocks within the next 2 weeks
Appreciate the time out of your day for all the knowledge! Excited for the fox coils to be done! Will definitely be willing to pay more for the proper help setting up
SO MANY people just buy off the shelf generic coilovers to go drifting or even road racing and have no idea how much better their cars could be with a proper spring rate/ valving and a well documented alignment using tire temps (road racing). I always tell people to call the company and tell them what you have, and what you'll be doing because it matters.
Very informative video mate, just fitted bcs to my e46, went for standard spring rate, now I have seen this tho, I can make a more informed decision on the spring rate in the future.
This is super helpful, thank you. You hooked me up with some rear springs recently for my e36 M3 that I'm building after taking a full day at SoD that is almost done. Coming down from Seattle to shred at Parc soon!
I have a bit of a different question: I'm trying to replace the stock rear air suspension in my e61 BMW with springs and there is legitimately only one manufacturer that makes a purpose-built spring (strutmasters, and I don't trust their quality at all). Do you have any idea how to calculate the spring length and rate needed?
So in a video you did with the foxbody on its rear suspension you said spring rate controls side bite on that rear suspension. So in that application a swaybar would decrease side bite?
He's not saying "what spring rate should I run?" is a "Google'able" question - he's saying it's much more complex than "I have 'X chassy' with 'this swap' what kinda spring rate should I run.
I guess big part of equation is combination of suspension travel vs. car weight, which could be a good aproximation, do you agree? How much spring travel do you account for before bottoming out usually for race cars? 2x weight of the car? 3x?
I emailed the email in the description hopefully I didn't give too much info on my setup but I'm hoping you have some 10k springs that are the same length as my 12k that came with my bcs. Car doesn't transfer weight worth a shit. I have some stuff to try this weekend at the track but I think a spring change may be in my very near future
Where can i buy rear springs for e36. Bc website doesnt show if they will fit my car neither doess fortune auto or swift. I need some help. Rear springs i have now are way too long, front are 9k so i wanted some 11k for the rear but they need to be 6 inches at most in height.
Do you recommend any specific brands for different uses? Street , track, drag, autocross and drift? Shopping around trying to fix some wheel hop issues on my Turbo E36
What if I already have a set of BCs could I send them to you to rebuild so I have proper setup? If so what’s the rough estimate on cost ..maybe best to worst case cost range?
Do if I want a neutral setup i should run a harder spring in the back of an e46 because of the suspension design. 10kg front and 12kg rear would be good for a stock power 328i practice car?
LMAOOO I came here cause I was wanting to figure out a spring rate for my E46 for mid HP (300-500) and 3,350 lbs for highway/street use and he calls out my chassis brethren 😅
Meanwhile, here in eastern europe, half of the SEMI-PRO drift cars with full cages and turbo m54s/m60s are driving on 200 dollar ebay coilovers with 6k fronts and progressive rears :D
Ive been hearing a lot of people talking about removing sway bars for more mechanic grip, but Chelsea says he likes running bigger bars. I have Ksport coils on my Z and i want to try out no rear bar for more grip, should i try lower spring rate in the rear instead?
Do you have a suspension parts list for your E36 coupes for drift school and what would you do differently for an oem plus but leaning towards drifting spec?
@@chelseadenofa Any insight why some people use E46 coilovers over E36? Also have you very used the Z3 with the 1.9l steering rack because it takes less revolutions to turn for lock to lock?
love this style of videos man! If you even made a whole series of videos on drift setup, little odd things about arms and toe curves weird stuff like that. i would pay money to watch and learn something
I second this
i third this
As much as you don’t promote low cars . You will probably be the best to go to for coilover setup recommendations.
Coilovers were invented to be able to corner balance a car easier, not go low
@@chelseadenofa This is the main topic of the video. You should add this to the bio of the video.
Hey Chelsea, what spring rate should I use?
its when mommy and daddy love eachother
More videos like this please! Hard to find brutally honest, technical info from pros for anything these days.
P.S. Did you have to let Vaughn win last year?
Haha. Thanks man
I went to Chelsea’s school of drift in Stockton California and I lost all my notes and footage from that day and I come back to these videos every month and I’m always learning something new
I feel like this is pretty common sense for anyone that understands what suspension geometry looks like. Instead of the question, "what spring rate" ask "how does suspension geometry work." You'll learn a lot more with that question and Chelsea helped answer that.
Awesome to see you giving everyone an understanding of how much really does go into setup and that there is no magic setup for every chassis
Great video! Been building coilovers for my soon to be drift-spec/stance Volvo 960, and i've used the "trial and error" method. ~12k in front and 5k,9k soon 12k in the rear!
The geometry of the 960 multilink suspension is weeeeird...
Ur back to filming vids? I mean you about to achieve the “100k Subs” - Silver Play button!!
I didn’t even notice I’m close hahah
I'm going to fwd this video on to every stance kid that asks me about spring rates and coilovers on their moms hand me down e46 323 automatic "race car" thanks for coming out and saying what I've been telling the local kids for ever, it's not a simple answer.
I remember in high school my buddies used to cut the factory springs to lower the cars 🙈😂 much simpler calculations..
Thank you so much... I'm not one to ask many questions. You have just swooped in and taught me a lesson ❤️❤️ I love suspension and really enjoy your videos going into detail on the little things
Another factor Chelsea didnt mention is how much horsepower/torque your car makes. Lets say both cars are the same make and model, but one makes 192hp/180.6lb.-ft vs 432hp/390.2lb.-ft for example. You would have two different spring rates for both cars. Stiffer springs can also add grip or allow tires to break grip easier.
Thanks for shared knowledge. Maybe next educatinal video could be how diffrent combinations of suspension parts relate to divability. Like stiff shock + soft spring and med sway bar in the back and soft shock + hard spring in the front and vice versa. Hope you get the idea. Cheers m8
Would be too niche to each car
@@chelseadenofa I mean in general, to get the gist of how different combinations affect things
Coming back to this a year later I got nothing but love for you man congratulations on the the big moves. Wish the family and team the best!!!
Thanks Chelsea. Appreciate the knowledge. I have a question. How ya doing bro? Love my E36. Bought/built because of videos you’ve made.
Awesome to hear. I’m good!
The name of the video it's even funnier knowing that Tpain watches you and probably this will pop up on his feed😂😂
Please can we get an entire series of set up tips. Thus I the knowledge we need!!
jeez thats generous man, always giving back to the community
I enjoy all the videos you create. Great content dude. Can't wait to see you in action this year.
Some of us still hit you up just to see what your up to and how you are and have been...but not enough of us obviously LoL stay safe brother man thanks again for signing our kids giveaway prize at Bash To The Future in Medford. Hope to see you again at the track sometime soon.
🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
Hell yeah Chelsea is making videos again. I honestly didn’t know about motion ratio but now I do.
Im using all this knowledge to get correct springs for my Japanese mini truck
Great job explaining this topic, and going into depth about each aspect that needs to be considered. I have a question about spring rates, but it goes beyond your discussion points. So, if you’re familiar with a concept called ‘Flat Ride’, or ‘Fast Settling’, one of the keys to having a chassis with a Flat Ride setup is that the rear axle frequency needs to be higher than the front axle frequency. Various people mention different ratios, but the original person who presented the concept (Maurice Olley) says the rear axle ratio should be 20% higher.
So, given this concept, and having a divorced spring setup (E36 M3) with a rear motion ratio of 54%, the rear springs must be significantly higher than the front to achieve this Flat Ride ratio, right? For example, with the stock springs, the E36 front spring rate is around 100lb/in, and the rear springs are around 230lb/in. But continuing this concept of a 20% higher frequency, if the front springs are 400lb/in, the rear would need to be something like 880lb/in, so with the motion ratio included, the spring rate at the wheel would be 475lb/in, or roughly 20% higher than the front.
Does this make sense, or am I still confused?
I don’t have time to watch the vid. WHAT SPRING RATE SHOULD I RUN?
🤣
All of it. 😂
Installing your suspension will take longer than watching this video 🙄 If you don't have 14 minutes to research before spending $1000-2000, you've officially failed the marshmallow test.
Run the spring rate to the rate of the spring so it can be properly springed
Not gonna lie this helped me out a ton to tune my cars for ac and forza as well as in irl thanks man i might be ordering shocks within the next 2 weeks
Appreciate the time out of your day for all the knowledge! Excited for the fox coils to be done! Will definitely be willing to pay more for the proper help setting up
What oil should I use 😂 jk glad your doing well. Good to see you making vids agin.
SO MANY people just buy off the shelf generic coilovers to go drifting or even road racing and have no idea how much better their cars could be with a proper spring rate/ valving and a well documented alignment using tire temps (road racing). I always tell people to call the company and tell them what you have, and what you'll be doing because it matters.
he made this video to send to all the people who ask him about spring rates hahaha, thanks for the info!
Thanks for the video. Hope you're well.
this was crazy helpful to me thank you very much
Absolute legend!! Biggest question is, are you ok?
Cool bro thanks for the ideas you shared much appreciated hope you have a good day
Who ever gave this a thumbs down is def someone who didn't get a response 🤣
The bird is the word bro
I learned so much in this video well done!
Very informative video mate, just fitted bcs to my e46, went for standard spring rate, now I have seen this tho, I can make a more informed decision on the spring rate in the future.
Amazing video thank
You so much
how lucky some are to see you and ask you these things, but if I saw you on the street I would be happy to shake hands and take a selfie with you 😅
Great info keep up the great content
Love the vids keep it up bro
I thought a video may come. You know what grinds my gears? Lol
Great video man good info thanks!!
Thank you for teaching us stuff. I appreciate you
For e36 12 inf front and 8 and rear i Think its ok but i dont understand preload i should get preload or install helpers
Can’t wait to talk to you one day and troll you asking what spring rate I should run 😂
Love from 🇲🇾 Malaysia
This vids are going to help so many people, give them more!!
Ok ok ok seriously what spring rate do you recommend? I got a 94 cadillac fleetwood lmao thanks for the video dude
All hail king denofa
This is super helpful, thank you. You hooked me up with some rear springs recently for my e36 M3 that I'm building after taking a full day at SoD that is almost done. Coming down from Seattle to shred at Parc soon!
I have a bit of a different question: I'm trying to replace the stock rear air suspension in my e61 BMW with springs and there is legitimately only one manufacturer that makes a purpose-built spring (strutmasters, and I don't trust their quality at all). Do you have any idea how to calculate the spring length and rate needed?
I guess the answer for everyone is,
start with what car do you have
then consider everything you have modified, then equate what your goal is for ride
So in a video you did with the foxbody on its rear suspension you said spring rate controls side bite on that rear suspension. So in that application a swaybar would decrease side bite?
Yes
Dude, I feel you. I build and race motorcycle and people hit me up with google'able questions all day.
He's not saying "what spring rate should I run?" is a "Google'able" question - he's saying it's much more complex than "I have 'X chassy' with 'this swap' what kinda spring rate should I run.
You never answered my question though. What spring rates do I run on my motoring vehicle?
Knowledge!
Good video. I'm trying to educate myself as much as I can about the Miata suspension.
Great vid!!.. great information.. learnt alot from this
I emailed you👍😎
I guess big part of equation is combination of suspension travel vs. car weight, which could be a good aproximation, do you agree? How much spring travel do you account for before bottoming out usually for race cars? 2x weight of the car? 3x?
I emailed the email in the description hopefully I didn't give too much info on my setup but I'm hoping you have some 10k springs that are the same length as my 12k that came with my bcs. Car doesn't transfer weight worth a shit. I have some stuff to try this weekend at the track but I think a spring change may be in my very near future
I appreciate the video, i was one of the annoying guys...
Thanks !
Thanks for the helpful info!
Soo good thanks my G !
are you ok mate?
just kidding 😜 thanks for taking the time!
THANK YOU!
Will you be doing the Freedom 500 race? I got $50 on you for the win,
Thanks for the video! First!
Great vid! Awesome to see someone who truly understands the physics of vehicle dynamics. I bet the "me too" boys get annoying.
Nice video bro! Do you have any idea what kind of sway bar would work with the slr ultra angle kit and be series bc coils? It’s on an e46
Great vids
Where can i buy rear springs for e36. Bc website doesnt show if they will fit my car neither doess fortune auto or swift. I need some help. Rear springs i have now are way too long, front are 9k so i wanted some 11k for the rear but they need to be 6 inches at most in height.
Got bcs lowered the car and it’s seems off in the steering corners
What spring rate shouldn't I run?
What spring rate can I run on my bed, I'm confused...
once you are driven to a video via the same question.. feels this bro :)
How you been lately?
Solid dude!
difference between independent rear suspension and four link solid axle? anything to think about picking a spring
Usually with solid axle the rate starting point is 15% or so lower
Awesome video
what spring rate should i run?
Thanks for the knowledge man is there any books you would recommend?
Hey Chelsea... isn't it the other way around? You need heavier springs the further in they go in order to get the same behavior at the wheel?!
Do you recommend any specific brands for different uses? Street , track, drag, autocross and drift? Shopping around trying to fix some wheel hop issues on my Turbo E36
Just a dumb student question ... If I run super hard springs what happens on how the shock works? Or those it "negate" the shock
great stuff
Dude, how have you been?
What if I already have a set of BCs could I send them to you to rebuild so I have proper setup? If so what’s the rough estimate on cost ..maybe best to worst case cost range?
The best option is to buy a new set and keep yours as spares or sell them
@@chelseadenofa good to know, thanks for the reply dude
That’s cool and all but what coily bois do I put on my slipnslide for commuting?
We need more like this! 🤓
whats a spring rhetorical question?
Soooo.... stock E36 with E46 arms and tie rod relocation, 1° of toe out, -4° camber in front. Which spring rates should i run? 🤣🤣🤣
Do if I want a neutral setup i should run a harder spring in the back of an e46 because of the suspension design. 10kg front and 12kg rear would be good for a stock power 328i practice car?
What spring rates do I use on my car that does drifting and off-roading. It’s a Toyota RSX-7 r36
best video on spring rates ever
What spring rate should I run
LMAOOO I came here cause I was wanting to figure out a spring rate for my E46 for mid HP (300-500) and 3,350 lbs for highway/street use and he calls out my chassis brethren 😅
Meanwhile, here in eastern europe, half of the SEMI-PRO drift cars with full cages and turbo m54s/m60s are driving on 200 dollar ebay coilovers with 6k fronts and progressive rears :D
And saying they have the fastest car
Ive been hearing a lot of people talking about removing sway bars for more mechanic grip, but Chelsea says he likes running bigger bars. I have Ksport coils on my Z and i want to try out no rear bar for more grip, should i try lower spring rate in the rear instead?
Do you have a suspension parts list for your E36 coupes for drift school and what would you do differently for an oem plus but leaning towards drifting spec?
I don’t. I’ll release some more info slowly
@@chelseadenofa Any insight why some people use E46 coilovers over E36? Also have you very used the Z3 with the 1.9l steering rack because it takes less revolutions to turn for lock to lock?