2 Wire Vs 3 Wire Well Pump Motors
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2018
- In this video, Chris explains the difference between the two most common submersible well pump motors.
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We are a distributor of pumps, packaged pumping systems, on-site wastewater treatment equipment, on-site wastewater treatment systems, and custom electrical control panels for water and wastewater applications, water well supplies, drilling supplies, and water treatment equipment.
I enjoyed your video explaining the differences in well pump motors. When you explained the longevity of each motor, another component to longevity of the motors is having more pressure tank volume for it's the number of starts that affect how long the motors last also. Having more volume of pressurized water to lengthen the time before the pump starts again can double the lifespan of the pump. I own a business with a pressurized well system and have hands on experience to back up my comments. Thanks again.
TOTALLY AGREE,,
Thank You. I’m an electrician I have worked on all these systems but never got an explanation for the difference. It’s hard to find people with real knowledge of controls. Thanks again.
I grew up repairing electric motors and replacing well pumps. He explained it very well. Thank You. I've had very good results with 2 wire pumps for residential use. Saw some over 40 years old.
After reading other peoples comments below, I would also share that your iron problems and any iron taste in your water can be eliminated by placing your pump 5 feet below the depth of your casing. The well driller who drilled my well where I live told be that. I had 190 ft of casing and he told me to set my pump at 200Ft and by doing so, would have great tasting water. He was right. The water level from the top of my casing was 20 ft and most plumbers and people will set the pump 20ft further(40ft total)and will have all the water they need. But it will have a iron taste. Setting pump below the casing prevents this and is so cold and refreshing too.
Just to clarify, your saying to set the pump '5ft below any water level' down the well?
Something that affected the life of our pump motor ( it hung at 280 feet in a 360-foot well...) was the build-up of sand and iron in the pump impellers. As the impellers became clogged, the motor ran for longer periods of time as it struggled to bring pressure up to the cut-off point. When the inefficiency became obvious, we'd pull the pump / motor and change them both while they were available. Overkill, perhaps, but better than paying for another "pull" in three or four years.
Great in depth explanation of types of motors. Thanks for the great video!
Thanks for watching!
This is an excellent video explaining submersible pumps.
Great video thanks for posting!
Very thorough coverage thank you so much for doing these it really helps. Good for franklin too ;)
Glad it was helpful!
Great video!!
Excellent... Thanks!!!
excellent presentation. I will go with a 1.5 hp three-wire cscr
Excellent presentation and very informative thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
It might be worth mentioning that a huge advantage of a CSCR control box is current overloads that will protect the motor. They are not as common to find in small HP CSIR applications and EVERY motor should be current protected and a breaker is NOT designed to protect motors. Most motors have thermal protection but that is an auto reset switch so the motor must get dangerously hot to trip it and it will just reset when it cools a bit and just keep doing that until it burns out the motor. If the pump section fails, there will be no water moving and the motor will simply overheat until it dies.
Thanks
Good video very informative
thanks!
Learning at great depths...
Thanks
My pleasure
Thanks this is a start, as an electronic tech / farmer, I am looking for intimate details on a component level, such as that relay. In your other vid you went over the off state test, but left out power up, timing out, and contact integrity. I could figure it out and explain it, but wouldn't be enough content for a whole channel lol, and then not many folks actually care to know. Regards
Thunk you are a good teacher
Thanks for watching!
Yes please how to wire will be very helpful & how i the control boxworks & yes I have a Franklin electric control box
Thanks so much for this tutorial!
You are so welcome!
Great info! Thanks👍
Glad it was helpful!
I recently replaced a Gould's 13 GS series pump that was 16 years old with a new pump of the same model and make. I noticed on the sticker specifications that the locked rotor amps on the old pump was 82 and on the new pump it was only 41. And once this pump was put into operation I noticed a lot less light flickering throughout the building when the pump kicks on. It has the same capacitor and relay in the control box so what's different about the motor that reduces its startup current?
Thank you.
Sir, Thanks for your valuable information, can you tell me that how to choose capacitor ratings for unknown motor capacity(HP), three wire submersible pump. Thanks
On the two wire Franklin motor well pump. Can you run a charge controller to help with the initial startup surge or will it burn the pump up
My Well Details: Elevation:320' Well Depth 266' with 4" casing and changes to 2" casing at about 110-120' for the remainder of the 266'. The pump Intake is at 105 feet Water Level 55-60 Feet
right now I have a Hallmark Industries MA0459X-14A Deep Well Pump, 3" (3.3 Max), 3/4 HP, 230V/60Hz/1Ph, 14 Stage, 270' Head Max, 13 GPM Max, 1"Npt.
I have it set a 40/60 PSI and a cycle stop valve set at 58psi.
I am looking to increase my volume of water and was told I should look at a 2HP pump if that is what I want.
Guidance on sizing a pump for more water volume and same or better PSI would be great.
Thanks, very informative as I have a Franklin 1.5 hp cscr unit @ 125feet.
Glad it helped
One added advantage to the three wire pumps is they have a appreciably lower starting current spikes. If you are a candidate for running you well off a generator or battery/inverter I strongly suggest three wire or the more expensive variable frequency drive pumps. I've run my 1/2 hp three wire (type unknown) off of a 1500 W 120volt inverter through a 2kw 120 to 240 transformer.
great info here
Glad it was helpful!
Hi RC, so for the CSCR setup which control box is required, You did say that the CSIR and CSCR are the same motors, correct?
Wish if you said something about the wire color codes .
Steady soul amazing 👍👍👍
To....good explaining.very clear
Hi Chris, can you run the three wire motor with a VSD? if yes, what would be the specs of the VSD required?
I have a Franklin control box asking for 3 wires - black, red, yellow
I have a two wire pump- do I jumper yellow wire to l1 or l2?
Good video. Would be nice to see some info on starting requirements (inrush current) for generator use!
We've got a video on sizing generators for well pumps: czcams.com/video/-OanTQJn18A/video.html
If there a short in a wire can you by pass it with a 3 wire to get the pump to run again .
You make a good lecturer Man
Thanks!
We have a deep well 240v pump (350+ feet) that was installed when our house was first built. It's been running flawlessly pumping water another 1000' uphill to the house , off a generator no less, for over 27 years.
What is the horsepower of your well pump? Thanks
@@jasonkranz8672 I wish I knew. It's been down in the well since we bought the house. I don't know make/model/HP...nothing. Sorry I can't help ya out there. She's still pumpin' tho!
I guarantee that your motor will go soon. You are on borrowed time. Pick out your new arrangement (pump/motor) soon and have it ready.
@@jimcochrane7826 I agree and realize I'm whistling past the graveyard here, but I just filled our 1200 gallon tank yesterday in just over 2 hours. Another fine performance by this amazing pump (whatever it is).
@@buzzloudlypost make and model once it goes 😊
Do the 3 wire pumps jerk more when you turn them on since they have more torque?
The 3 wire systems are split phase ?
This is just the information I was looking for, subed as well, Thanks! I am going to set up a well in the Philippines and run off solar or generator. How many watts for the 3 wire, and do they have the ratchet ability?
I'm off grid in Canada and running a conventional 120V or 240V well pump off solar isn't easy. It's more cost effective to use a generator. My small 120V 1/2 horsepower submersible well pump draws 55 amps on startup, and a 2.5 kW generator can just barely start and run it. Good luck with your project!
Check out our video on how to size a generator
@@paulmaxwell8851 55 amps x 120 volts = 6600 watts = 6.6 kw. I am not surprised your generator struggles. I am surprised that it works. Glad it does.
On the topic of current I have a three wire 1.1 kw Franklin running 9.2A at 230Vacwhich equates to about 2.2 kw power so I don’t understand where the energy is going
I just had a myers deep well pump come out of my well 290 fl down made in 1991 3/4 hp just been replace it was still working sometimes and it is a 2 wire was takeing out last week
@Kevin Waddell What is Pumptec?
@Kevin Waddell Thanks Kevin for the info. It seems that Pumptec is a beneficial technology that would be good to include in most well set-ups. Is it only used with Franklin equipment?
I have a 25 year old Meyer pump 1.5 HP that is CSIR I want to change the box out just for maintenance purposes should I stick with a CSIR or should I charge it to a CACR box .
Marty
That's an old pump! I would stick with what has worked for 25 years.
I've been looking at Grundfos SQ or SQE pumps for a new well but from the little I understand they seem to be somewhat different than any of these types of pumps. From their videos they explain it's two wire, single phase power but it's converted to 3 phase and operates as well as a three wire design. I'm curious what your analysis on the grundfos pumps is?
Those are motor integrated VFD high frequency design, very advanced. Nothing in common with these std. 60 Hz one phase variants.
I have a 150 feet deep well. What kind of pump can you recommend ? I want to get a least 30 o 35 GPM. Thanks a lot
Cuantos galones por minuto hace su pozo de agua?
Goulds, Grundfos, Flint and Walling.
I have a 60 feet well which kind of submersible pump can I use there sir.
Nice video. Two things I got a two wire pump and it is around 20 years old. The only reason I said around 20 is because I bought my place over 15 years ago. And we never replace the pump. Second since my well is getting that old I'm thinking it's going to go out eventually. Can you tell me a good two wire pump that I can put in myself.
We'd be happy to help you size a pump: 855.329.4519
How to connect pressure pump with three wires coming out from different angles of the pump .
Can you run a three wire pump with a three phase inverter, rather than a "control box"? The capacitors make a third phase anyway. You can get inverters that use 240 volt single phase as power input. You can ramp up speed as startup to lower inrush current. You can monitor for high current conditions in case of rotor lock. You can vary motor speed to fit your application. Anyone running from solar, or battery would find this useful.
Great video THANK YOU I had to change a well pump.
I don't understand the 3 wires is it 2 hots & a neutral or there is no neutral here?
Black , Red & yellow.
I get 230v between yellow & red & 11ov from black to red or yellow.
Does this means the black is the neutral? Or is the control box switching polarity? I don't get it.
If anyone can help
A three wire system actually has four, just as a two wire has three. The ground wire is not counted.
:+)if degree:;:
On a 3 wire pump the red starts the just one flash of electricity then yellow takes power to pump and yellow brings power back up to the control box. A 2 wire the controller is built inside the pump
You have explained alot about 2 wire / 3 wire pumps but is the voltage for both of these style pumps 120 volt or 220 volt?
They're both available in either 115 or 230
1 phase 2 phases it needs more voltage woow
what about DC deep well solar pumps
How can I connect serncer pump
I have a 3 wire motor. I just bought a new pressure switch. What wires from the yellow, red and black hook into the pressure switch. Thanks
Vince, those wires don't go to the pressure switch, they go into a control box. You can find them on our website here: www.rcworst.com/standard-control-boxes.html
Trjrit 5 up dmfh 5th and 3
On a 3 wire pump all the wires get hooked up to the control box. It say y, r, b, then from the control box from line 1 and line 2 go to the two middle screws on the pressure switch. Then the outside screws are hooked up from where power comes in from the electrical panel
We bought this old property and apparently our well pump is 31 yrs old (3 wires, still working) watching this video to learn more before we replace it. We want to replace because besides being old, I don't think is normal for our water to have a lot of sediment.
Give us a call if you want quality equipment and tech support: 855.329.4519
Does anyone know if having a single phase, 240V, 3 wire system help to reduce inrush amperage requirements on startup? IOWs, does having the control box with capacitors reduce the amount of inrush at startup these motors require from the circuit they feed from. Is that why these motors require those capacitors? To reduce in rush current? I'm asking because I want to be able to operate the well pump from a generator during power outages. Obviously inrush requirements are usually the biggest factor in that case. I know the normal draw is 10 amps. But to say inrush could be anywhere from 2 to 6 X normal draw doesn't really help size the generator correctly. I don't want to spend the money for a 10,000 watt generator, plus the extra gas it requires unless that's the only option. Thanks.
Here's a generator-sizing chart: franklinwater.com/more/service/aim-manual/motor-application/all-motors/page-5/#Use-of-Engine-Driven-Generators---Single-Phase-or-Three-Phase
The only thing that will control inrush at startup, is a frequency drive system.
Can you add a GFI to the 220 volt 2 wire pump?
why though? if you are asking if you can add a gfi breaker to the pump circuit, yes you can, but i dont much see the point in it if it is correctly grounded as it should be. it would just be an extra redundant and useless thing to add to the circuit. if you're running a 2 wire pump with just 2 hots and no ground, i would strongly suggest u stop using it immediately and correctly ground it especially if its 220v.
e-bay pumps that are submersible range from 120 dollars to 300 max . with free shipping
Any idea which type is better for generator use? I had a 3 wire but had it replaced with a 2 wire and now my 10kw generator won't run the well pump.
That's very interesting I have a three wire getting ready to hook up a generator to the house looking at currents and load on the generator. My pump is due to be replaced any day it's 40 plus years old. Probably looking to do it three wire again
@@kennybobby9397 Do you have the capacitor box inside the house now with your current 3 wire setup? That's pretty impressive if your pump is 40 years old? Are you saying that your pump and the pump motor are submersible and are both 40 years old? That's kind of hard to believe that the pump motor would last that long submersed in a well.
@@Redneck_Ed from the paperwork I see that the submersible pump which is a red jacket is 40 plus years (1978) not sure if the box has been replaced it's in the crawl space and pretty crusty looking haven't opened it up yet. Forgot to add it's an excellent well with no real iron in the water one of the reasons I bought the place 17 years ago 😁 the house is a shack but it has a good well LOL
@@Redneck_Ed My Franklin is 32 years old (i just looked at the box) and is still going. 3 wire, 1/2hp, 60 feet deep.
Can 120v 2 wire pump control with vfd controller? Ty
Yes, the Subdrive Utility can control either 1/3 or 1/2 HP 115V pumps, see it here: www.rcworst.com/Franklin-Electric-5870202003-SubDrive-Utility-Frequency-Drive-p15883.html
On a 2wire sub pump. Do i have to hook up grown wire
Yes.
Yes you have to
Is it normal for the green to be cut off the 3 wire motors? Mine is a 1hp gould
The older motors did not have a ground wire.
@@RCworstwater When you say did not have a ground do you mean that it was removed or not ever there? We had to pull our pump up not too long ago and replace the impeller and I noticed the green wire was cut off. Which I don't really know but I'm wondering if it is wired correctly.
Great 👍 gay open your head to get it good I learned something.
My pump is from 1972 and was going strong until 2 days ago
I have a 5hp well pump. I notice there are 2 run capacitors (40 microFarad each) in parallel. Why using 2 capacitors? Can we use 1 run capacitor of 80 microFarad?
Are u sure one caps not a start cap, since you have to have a start cap in the circuit to overcome the starting torque??
Thank GOD!!!
An English titled video presented in ENGLISH!!!
Gee that's very white of you - GOD had nothing to do with it, CZcams spans the globe, as you may know, so you are bound to hit any language (or set you preferences so the rest of us don't have to see bigoted antagonistic comments like this). Fun fact before I go: Only 13% of the world speaks English. Thank God.
There was no reference to 3 Phase motors. Every year 3 phase motors become more popular as drive prices come down and versatility goes up.
If you have a house with 3-phase you could run a plain 3-phase motor pump and just a pressure switch.
You're right, but 3-phase power is almost exclusively used in commercial and municipal applications to run larger 15+ HP motors. Residential properties virtually never have three-phase service.
I have a system with a control box. How do I identify whether it is CSCR or CSIR? The system has run flawlessly since 1997. Static water level is 25 feet below ground. Is that why it has lasted 23 years, or is it just luck?
Look inside the control box. A CSCR box will have a start AND run capacitor, whereas a CSIR box will only have the start cap.
I like your presentation---very level headed, but at first you scared me with your blackboard
Thanks for sticking through it!
". . . you scared me with your blackboard . . ." Blackboard? You saw a blackboard?
How would I wire in a 2 wire in place of a 3 wire without running all new set of wires?
Give us a call: 855.329.4519
Lo puedes traducir a español x favor
Man! Come back down to earth 🌎 Rocket man......
please explain the three wire on the pump ???
PSC and Split-Phase are 2 wire, and CSIR and CSCR are 3 wire...
Sir , For D.C. Motors , we build Rectifier but I have query to manufacture D.C. Submersible Pump with whole Solar (MONO OR POLY) Set. Sir , I request you to support me as you're too supportive or recommend me some other Teacher to teach me.
Warm Regards
8:30 pump price comparison
So does that mean a CSIR has one capacitor while a CSCR has two capacitors in the control box?
Correct, at least for smaller motors. As the HP increases the # of capacitors increases as well.
why am I watching a video about the number of wires on pump motors?
Ok so it's been a year now, I'm willing to bet this information came in handy since then but that's because people ask me about electrical problems. I'll bet at least one of you had a hot chick who needed info about her well pump..
I'll bet if there was a four wire motor , it would have four wires
These pumps are all outrageously priced!!!! They should cost $75-$150 at most. I have municipal water but have a well I would like to get running again..... for car washing, pressure-washing, possibly laundry, grass watering. I could even do it all myself........ But $450 BUYS A FREAKING RESERVOIR OF MUNICIPAL WATER IN PA!!!!!! It Just is not worth doing it unless I lived here another 30 years. This is a total scam when u price other motors and pumps and compressor equipment. Pissed off
You get what you pay for with well pumps - as with most things in life. If you're not relying on the well for your family's water supply then it might make sense to go with something cheap to see if it gets your small jobs done.
I see a durachoice 1 inch Y-spring, npt, 316 stainless, PTFE seal, 304 stainless spring check valve. It looks like a top quality check valve, anything to say about it? Thank you for your video send your time.