Batteries + solar smash records in California and fossil power plants suffer
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- Batteries + solar smash records in California and fossil power plants suffer
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In Spain we have already achieved negative prices this year for several hours. This will increase probably duting the summer. Fossil fuels represent only 15% of electryicity as of now. Stay tuned to the Spanish national grid data.
The Spanish are showing the rest of us what is possible. Growing pains yes. Growth comes with pain. The US has too large a political hurdle to overcome in big oil. Keep leading the way. Eventually we will get it.
Good for Spain.
That is fantastic. I love Spain. We decided to winter in the Canaries instead of FLA. Best thing we ever did.
@@bossman6174 please do not ever come back to Florida. Stay away.
@@bossman6174 was you born in FLA?
As wonderful an achievement as this all is, it is not decreasing the cost of electricity in California. It never will as long as for profit companies are in charge of the utility grids. Their business is to make money for themselves and secondarily for their shareholders. That's the fly in the ointment here.
Capitalism works. Communism does not. If there is no profit, then the tax payer suffers.
It's probably what paid for that achievement.
If it was not for "for profit" companies...none of this would have happened.
@@MichaelF350 That is true and I don't mind paying a reasonable cost for equipment or service. However I do mind being gouged by companies that are incompetently ran and are more concerned about shareholders and bonuses than their customers. There are municipal utilities that charge less than the conglomerates for energy. Sadly, I don't live in those cities. Now that solar and batteries are cheap enough for most people, the power companies are pulling out all the stops to ensure that they still get a constant income even from self sufficient people.
An additional huge impact is CA is "exporting" large amounts of excess solar to the Pacific Northwest during the day. This allows the hydro plants in CA, WA, OR, ID and BC to spin down during the day and spin up at night, effectively producing a massive hydro "battery". Unfortunately, this isn't going to lead to cheaper energy soon. The private utilities face the huge cost of a century of under-investment in infrastructure (literally, criminally negligently so), wealthy users going "behind the meter", and creating a new interconnected green energy Western energy exchange.
Does anyone have any idea when the price of electricity in in CA will drop?
Good point. CA private utilities have historically deferred essential maintenance, which not only means they have a huge backlog of costs, but also have contributed to the devastating fires that have plagued the state in recent years. This is finally a step in the right direction.
Not all California Utilities are expensive, in my city of Anaheim you get 10 kWh a day for $0.12 per kWh then any excess is at $0.20. I average 30kWh a day for an average of $0.17
I have lived in Anaheim for over 30 years and they have always been 1/2 the price of most other California utilities In addition on the 2 occasions in 30 years I have needed them they arive within an hour of my call. I recently added Tesla solar and powerwalls and they scheduled their inspections with no delays. I'm sure Anaheim is making money on Electricity so I wonder why other utility companies costs are exorbitant.
The price of electricity in California has almost nothing to do with the cost of generation. It's all infrastructure cost. like 80% of the cost is just maintaining California's incredibly spread-out grid. Large population centers more or less subsidize rural and mountain areas. And it has always been this way, from long before renewables became a thing.
So for example, Texas uses double the electricity that California uses on a per-capita basis, and their electricity rates are half of ours. But the average utility bill for a home in Texas is only slightly lower than the average utility bill for a home in California. Its like 10% or so lower... not half.
Higher electricity consumption can thus lead to lower $per/kWh pricing (as it has in Texas). In that regard, electrification of everything in California may lead to lower prices or at least stabilization of prices.
What is changing, however, is that home owners are now able to generate their own electricity and this is putting incredible pressure on the state to find more efficient and cost-effective ways to maintain the larger grid.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312 True enough. I have all of 3.9 kW peak from my solar, but I produce more power than I use. Of course I am fortunate to be under NEM 2.0 and can use the grid as my battery. I'm watching battery progress with interest. I have a small basement room for batteries and will eventually get some. You get a 30% tax credit too.
And Californian's pay $0.40 per KWh for it. So much that Walmart's are crowded on hot days when folks can't afford to run their home air conditioning. Sigh.
Folks love the weather, can't have it all.
Move to England its literally freezing here right now and its May !
@@stevenbarrett7648👍Hello from Hawaii.
Pge charges 46 cents base rate for 8kwh/day, goes up after 8 kwh. My neighbors pay $350 a month or more. I use plug in solar with a couple of Chins batteries. I drive a free Nissan Leaf Which ironically PGE used car rebate paid for. $4k rebate on a $2600 car.
I'm not saying it isn't true. It's stupid. You should have low rates during solar hours, and high rates when the sun goes down, and 40 cents is still too high. You guys can make solar juice for 2 cents per kwh. Now you still have to get it to where it needs to go, and do the billing, and make sure it works all the time, but it doesn't take 38 cents/kw to do that. I don't know why it's dumb, but it is. Californians need EV chargers wherever their cars are parked during solar hours, AND the prices to encourage them to charge then.
The electric company in Vermont realized that they could pay for batteries in the houses of their customer for less money than building a new peaker plant. Nothing to do with solar, just forward thinking.
better check again. california IMPORTS 1/5 to 1/3 of it's electricity.
CA depends on imported energy to function. Just a few month ago they would limit thermostats temperatures and EV charging due to lack of capacity.
This is a bit of an exaggeration. California actually has large in-state generation resources and both imports and exports electricity. Just last year Arizona was relying on exports from California to make it through a heat wave, for example. California was also exporting during the great Texas Freeze, aiding states on the Western Grid (the freeze mostly missed California itself so there were plenty of export resources available at the time).
You might not think about these turn-arounds, but they are just as important as overnight imports are. Still, one could reasonably say that the state has gotten a bit lazy in terms of using imports for overnight generation.
At the same time I will point out that neighboring states rely on exporting overnight to California to keep their nuclear plants running economically (24x7), so it's a two-way street.
In anycase, this dynamic has begun to change quite radically over just the last few years as in-state battery storage increase. Imports have been slowly declining over the last decade and that trend looks like it is going to continue.
Fox News Talking point. 2 years ago California asked Tesla owners to charge their EVs outside peak periods, which is easy to do with Telsas. And Fox News twisted that to their talking point.
So they took control of thermostats and EV chargers? Huh 🤔
@@hermancm Nope. They asked citizen to limit use during the heatwave in 2022, a thing that would be unnecessary if they had the ability to produce all the power they needed. The control of thermostats is a program customers agree to enter. In Colorado many customers were in fact locked out of their smart thermostats by the energy company during the heatwave.
@@mrgustavoperez I can see them asking you to cut back on power if they can’t meet the power demand.
My 12Kw ground mount system puts out ~50 kWh per day lately to the grid depending on outside temperature. Solar works. We need more storage to offset the eve use as well as the morning takeoff.
kWh
Investigate flow batteries salt ions
Energy storage cost is always the problem. 12v@100AH Lifepo4 is almost $300. When its $30 wake me.
I find it ironic that the Google ad which interrupted your video with was for a "built Ford tough" combustion engine pickup.
The Ads are based on YOUR video feed and searches, etc. Not on the video itself.
Mine was for an advertisement for *solar*!
it is an interesting point, but why not consider using *a. d. blokc pluss*? It works and is a mere - but wait - free.
Im sorry you're so poor that you dont have google premium
@@DavidC-pg6ni I think everyone knows that, it's still a ironic situation
California’s lead will be short lived. I live in Northern California and have just installed solar on a new home. The project was way more expensive and had way more red tape than a previous project we did on our home 7 years ago. Pacific Gas and Electric, our local utility, has used its influence to change state building codes to make solar more prohibitive and expensive to homeowners. Ask any electrician in our area and you will hear how solar installation has dropped dramatically because of cost demands of the new code.
It just so happens that we lucked out, and the additional changes to meet code were not too cost prohibitive in our situation. We did install storage battery because the overage rates have dropped way low, 25% market.
It’s sad to know that there are key players out there will to pour sand in the gears of the prospect of a renewable future.
Energy prices in California haven’t come down, because not enough time has passed. Our poorly managed and corrupt public utility system is still trying to make money back from investments made a decade ago. They are already obsolete. This massive transformation in the last 12 months is going to need some time.
Also, even bigger news about solar and batteries, getting cheaper, is that soon we will be able to take matters into our own hands and create our own energy as well as store it. Once we can become independent energy suppliers, and leave the corrupt utility price gouging, just maybe some of these extreme naysayers will finally understand the full potential.
The Public Utilities were forced by the Communist Democrats to do what they say. The fault lies with the corrupt incompetent Commie Socialists in the Govt.
I didn’t realize California had a public utility system. I was under the impression most of the state was serviced by PG&E and SoCal Edison. I think there are some pockets of public utility systems though.
Batteries have cut spring peak exports in half and in a year or two they'll probably cut exports to near zero. California's wholesale electricity prices sometimes go negative in spring, usually only for a few hours on a few days though (it gets heavily exaggerated by conservative media but really it has always been a foot-note at best). Negative pricing is great for grid-scale batteries, but mostly they simply rely on the wholesale costs being low mid-day due to all the solar available.
Note that California's grid-scale batteries can push roughly 6GW right now (it will be 10GW within a year). The actual storage is roughly 5 times that... so the state has roughly 30GWh+ of battery storage now. Within a decade that is likely to exceed 200GWh.
Grid-scale batteries have several incredibly beneficial knock-on effects. They can react in milliseconds to grid events, and the batteries can be situated in congested transmission line zones to de-congest those transmission lines which saves insane amounts of money (not having to upgrade or add new transmission lines). States like California and Texas have realized that grid-scale batteries pretty much pay for themselves due to all of these positive effects.
Sodium ion battery can be 40% cheeper than LFP if mass produced.
For Stationary storage, energy density doesn't matter, so Sodium ion battery is better.
Possibly cheaper but so far LFP prices continue to drop. We're looking at less than $60/kWh this year. Sodium batteries have quite a lot of warts, the biggest one being the huge voltage range of the charge and discharge curves which make it relatively difficult to efficiently interface with the battery's storage capacity. LFP, on the other-hand, has an extremely flat charge and discharge curve which brings incredible benefits with it.
@@junkerzn7312 Not sure if I see why the larger voltage range is that much more difficult to accommodate as the batteries are basically dumping their energy back into the grid through giant line-synched inverters. Is inverter design that much more difficult when dealing with a larger input voltage range?
@@josephduvivier3322 Basically LFP's working voltage on a cell-by-cell basis is 3.0V to 3.55V or so (98% DOD). At 95% it is even narrower but lets use 98% for the LFP. In a grid storage environment with a working voltage of around 480V, just say 160s for argument's sake, that's 480V to 568V. The DC going into the inverter typically needs to be higher than the AC output if you want high efficiencies (higher but not too much higher). Bucking down is always a lot more efficient than boosting up. There is a fairly narrow range where the working voltage can be efficiently inverted.
A sodium cell's working voltage is roughly 1.5V to 3.5V. 95% DOD, roughly. A 160s configuration would be 240V to 560V. If we make the minimum 480V (320s) then the range is 480V to 1120V.
You should be able to see the problem from just that example. Now obviously one tunes the series configuration as appropriate... that isn't the problem. The problem is that the working voltage range is huge for sodium which makes getting high efficiencies out of the rest of the power electronics for a fair portion of the discharge and charge curves is fairly difficult.
This also limits inverter output wattages given the same general component cost. For sodium, the input stage has to deal with a 1.0x to 2.0x current range in terms of heat/losses. For LFP the scale factor is 1.0x to 1.18x.
In a grid/line configuration the inverter output has to be a fixed AC voltage which will then be scaled up by a transformer (depending on the grid interconnect). For example, in a residential configuration this would be 240V. For a grid-scale battery it will be 400-800V... somewhere in there (prior to the utility transformer).
-Matt
109% click click
@@josephduvivier3322 Hmm.. sometimes my answers wind up not posting. Well, not sure whats with that but here's the skinny. A LFP cell has a working voltage (95% DOD) of roughly 3.0V to 3.5V. A sodium cell has a working voltage range of (95% DOD) of 1.5V to 3.5V.
Lets say you are targeting 480V mains. The most efficient inverter configuration is going to be a buck-style (higher input voltage than output voltage), ignoring the sine wave bit for the moment (actual voltage of the sine wave goes much higher than that)... but keeping it simple and just going with RMS values. You generally want the input voltage to only be modestly higher than the output voltage for maximum efficiency. Again ignoring the fact that it is DC-to-AC just for brevity.
So a 160s LFP pack gets you 480V to 560V over its charge/discharge curve.
And a 320s Sodium pack gets you 480V to 1120V over its charge/discharge curve.
I think the problem should be self-evident from those numbers. The inverter needs to deal with a much wider voltage range for the sodium pack... 2.0x instead of 1.17x, roughly. Its going to be tough for the sodium inverter to be able to operate over its entire charge and discharge curve at its highest efficiency. The input amperages for the sodium will also be a lot higher, so the inverter will be a bit less powerful given the same-spec parts (or going by heat dissipation).
That's the basic problem in a nutshell. Sodium works, but there are warts.
-Matt
I live in the bay area and the reason there was more generation is that the weather has not been hot. Also, although there is growth in grid batteries, there is no where near enough to support the increased grid demand in the peak summer months.
The batteries are just to balance the grid demand. They have a long way to go before they actually replace the grid entirely. California grid was 287,220 gWh in 2022.
Batteries in California take a 5GW (x 5 hour) chunk out of evening gas generation. And batteries are now cutting exports in half in Springtime (aka now). That's a lot more than just balancing the grid. This will ultimately expand to remove all gas generation from the evening peak and after that energy storage will start to work on overnight consumption.
Ripple Energy - You need something in Australia and New Zealand - for those live in in flats, or the like.
A huge part of the world outside of the sunbelt has huge hydodams (Norway, Canada and Sweden) or a lot of wind capacity (British Isles, Denmark, Northern Germany and the Netherlands). There is enough renewable energy to power the world.
Yes
No there is NOT enough renewable energy for the world. Renewable energy decimates animal and plant life.....might want to do some research on their out puts and damage to life other than humans.
@@user-sm4kd6ky3e Do you have any sources for your claims?
Is that why the uk had to fire up retired coal plants ? Remember there is a small band of wind speed that they operate the wind farms
@@captaindunsell8568 That's why the UK needs to invest in huge transmission lines.
Thanks Sam, a really positive message there.
Instead of celebrating the milestone, we have the usual haters decrying it and starting conspiracy theories.
It's sad to see how that form of mental illness has spread. My subjective opinion is that it's like wave which stsrted with Limbaugh. He made it seem cool (to damaged, slightly stupid people) to hate and blame and plog vengeance as something of a recreational sport. Now with the next-level scientific supercharging from Fox, it's just off the charts.
I live east of Sacramento and on PG&E. I pay 56 cents per KwH peak rate. Price goes up every year. Our cost of electricity will never go down. pG&E will say that is the cost to maintain the infrastructure. It does not matter whether the infrastructure is coal, nuclear, solar or reindeer farts. PG&E will never reduce price per KWH. They won’t even slow the rate of increase. But I’m glad the electricity comes from a more environmentally friendly source.
So if you can, move power generation close to home, with panels (and batteries but only if that works for you).
I don't know about catching up to Texas in terms of raw numbers for renewables. Texas (ERCOT) had a blockbuster April for renewables, adding 3GW of solar, wind and battery. In one month. CA is definitely ahead on a percentage basis though!
It was NOT just solar energy. It was renewables combined. Yes, solar was the primary renewable, but it was not the only.
All good 🙂
What Tony Seba said. Solar, Wind and Batteries is cheaper energy.
Unfortunately, my relatives in South SF pay more than twice per kwh than I do in an Atlanta GA suburb. And their rates are increased even more during peak hours. Ouch! 🙄
Had solar + batteries for 7 years. My in-laws are paying $1600/month for their electricity. Our house is smaller, but my wife and I have a $60 *credit balance* on our utility bill.
I am very pro renewables. But the cost of electricity in California is at an all time high.
Good reason to keep expanding renewable energy and go off grid. F PG&E.
So install a solar array an back feed th grid
I did solar 6 years ago. Could not put it on the roof, so two rows in the back yard supply me with an average of 25Kw per day. 7.6kw through 24 panels. In PA in the USA, only 70% effective, but 25Kw per day is awesome.
You must move to California. You can then enjoy the nirvana that is the California experience.
Even better, move to Australia. Cleaner air, more space, and it's just... better ;-)
Our grid here in Ontario is over 90% clean all ready with Nuclear , Hydro, solar and wind power so why go to solar here. But I did buy an EV and now I have ordered a heat pump to get rid of the old propane Furniss. YOU reading this can do that too.
Some prefer the downstream (no pun intended tended) effects of solar over those of nuclear and sometimes even hydro. Additionally, the legalized cost of energy from nuclear seems to be pretty stagnant, and the costs associated with wind and solar are still decreasing. That is to say, solar and wind are continuing to get less expensive whereas nuclear does not.
Charge at night at 8 cents a kwh.
Ontario has it together.
@BioniqBob it's awesome 👍
How often does your electric go out ? That is a reason to have solar and even batteries.
Were clean power in BC too pretty much. But..my friend put up 2 panels just using a battery storage and hes amazed how much usable juice hes getting!
Thanks Sam
I have a beautiful old Norway maple tree that shades almost my entire roof during peak sunlight. The solar contractor is urging me to cut it down to make solar economical for me. Sorry, no way.
BUT, the electricity price is all top high in California. 👎👎
👍👍
The opening solar tower is in Nevada
True but it is supporting the California grid.
They really need to use these packs on hydro electric facilities. I would like them constructed where there is a catch basin in the event of a thermal event that any run off be collected and treated accordingly.
The cost of a small solar system to run my house is compounded by the cost to remove the trees that shade my roof. Add on the cost to replace an aging room and it’s a well out of reach.
PGE charges us an arm and leg! +42 cents per kilo
Must be groundhog day. This was covered 11 days ago. 😅😅
Infrastructure costs will always be an issue as long as we keep building single family home neighborhoods in the suburbs. Those neighborhoods don’t bring in enough tax revenue to maintain the infrastructure needed.
Unfortunately, us Californians are still paying $0.52/ kWhr for both PGE in orthern California and similar rates in Southern California.SDGE
California's population is approaching 40 million, ten million more than the population of Texas. But Texas uses far more electricity than California, they have a lot of hot, humid weather, for one thing. The weather is mild along the coast of California, where most people live. So electricity demand is lower than average.
California leads the way when it comes to renewable energy. Millions of solar roofs, and Californians are finding that the battery storage system can cut the costs of electricity by shifting the solar generation to the evening. Battery storage allows a homeowner to join a VPP - virtual power plant - and make money selling power back to the grid. A study said that it's possible to earn up to $10 thousand a year, but I think it's likely to be a lot less than that.
All it took was a corrupt Communist Govt run by idiots to FORCE everyone to use Solar because they think the SKY IS FALLING and have the FORCE of govt...
Electricity prices in Australia rose by 30%, yes 30% in a single year in 2023. In 2024 prices have declined slightly but not nearly as much to wipe out the large increase in electricity last year.
2 days ago had solar and a Powerwall 2 installed, been 'off-grid' since then, despite the usual crap weather here in the UK. Elon and his dream for renewables are coming to life! regards
The image of the large field of concentric mirrors focused on a central heat tower is not solar voltaic.
It reaps heat to make steam and has not been very successful.
Awesome news
Power companies, reducing the price of power? Yeah, right when hell freezes over.!
They’re done stick a fork in em !!! Th disruption is real
Everything has a frequency even th earth
A bit of solar on my roof is my next step. Want to start small with a few kW system, then add more panels to it later.
I think we all have underestimated solar as in just what you are saying.
Sam when you replace your solar panels could you do video and some drone footage. Thanks
Definitely
It's amazing what you can do when you don't have Enron sabotaging your market and causing fake disruptions.
CA is also requiring bi-directional charging capability for all new EVs. The average EV has enough capacity to power the average home for two days but the 40 miles per day the average car travels only uses about 14kwh, which is what most home water heaters use daily. I regularly drive by a certain gas station with $.10/gal cheaper gas and see cars lined up waiting to fill up and save those pennies. Once they realize they can charge their car during the day for free then sell that power for a profit the problem of not enough batteries is solved.
Do you have a link for the bidirectional charging requirement? I haven’t heard this.
A few corrections. First, note that a heat-pump water heater with an 80 gallon tank only burns around 2kWh/day... maybe 4kWh/day with a family of 5.
Second, on V2G (bi-directional charging), there are some major warts there. The first thing to keep in mind is that the car is not actually able to export to the grid on its own. It can connect its battery to the plug, but that's 400-800VDC. And since this is how cars handle Fast DC charging, it isn't hard to allow the current to flow both ways.
So exporting (V2G) requires some external gear... an external inverter to convert that DC to utility AC. Some vehicles use their built-in L2 inverter for this but the last thing you ever want to do is to add wear to the power electronics of your vehicle.
Another big issue with V2G is that you only really want to do this if your car has LFP batteries. You do not want to do this if your car has NMC batteries because the wear on the batteries will be vastly more costly to you than anything you save by exporting.
-Matt
Look for things to turn quickly once some more affordable EVs are available. Right now options are a bit too high for much of the market, at least in the US. It looks like Tesla is going to move rapidly to producing a more affordable EV.
A $30k EV with a $7,500 federal rebate should sell like hotcakes. Especially once people fully understand why EVs are so much cheaper per mile to drive.
$30k - $7.5k - $5k in opex over 5 years makes for a $17.5k purchase. That's how you out of pocket will play out over a five year loan payoff.
@@junkerzn7312
By the time a non-trivial number of cars have V2G, very few of them will be NMC, for the simple reason that the other chemistries are cheaper. But, even with an NMC battery, the impact of V2G on battery health is negligible because power flow is very slow and within the 40-60% range. What does add stress to NMC batteries is full charge/discharge cycles (e.g. 100%->0%), but V2G will never do that or anything close.
The real hangup for V2G is the up-front cost of the "hookup" equipment to wire everything up. It had better cheap, or nobody will do it.
Most water heaters still use elements, not heat pumps, to heat water. They use an average of 13-14 kWh per day which is why they are a good stand in for the average EV usage especially since they’re the biggest drain during peak hours of demand. The additional cost to equip a new EV with V2G is currently $3700. I’m old enough to remember when microwaves cost $2K but now I can buy one for $30. The cost will drop as it is more widely adopted. Battery technology is also improving quickly and as manufacturers are required to install the equipment in order to avoid warranty repair costs they’ll also have to increase the reliability through smart management systems.
I thought you said you'd shut your channel down if it turns out Tesla was actually going to lay off tens of thousands of employees!
Do you want that to happen? I don't. Love the Viking.
@@jackwickman2403I would. He should put his money where his mouth is.
This is both very good and also very bad for California citizens/ratepayers. Yes of course it is amazing that we are getting off of fossil fuels. But Sam, California’s electricity is generated and transported by a very corrupt energy cartel of three, regional monopolies. The capos of this cartel divided up the state into three gang territories. And, the capos of this cartel have so corrupted public officials that they have pushed through price rise after price rise. The result is that my wife and I pay 41cents per kWh for electricity. That rate is scheduled to rise again this year! The prices our robber barrons charge us for electricity, combined with the fact that my home insurance went from $1,500 to over $11,000 per year because of global warming and fires means that the money people might have otherwise spent to install solar and batteries and get an EV is gone. Also, California offers no low interest loans to help pay for solar and batteries. And, if you install solar and batteries, the electricity cartel will only pay you a few pennies per kWh for the power you generate. Our corrupt electricity cartel and the high prices they charge are more than anything generating a lot of hostility among ratepayers towards green energy. We don’t need any more massive batteries and solar and wind farms to make our crooked electricity cartel capos richer. We need affordable home solar and home battery storage systems to help captive ratepayers break away from the cartel.
You said "...break away from the energy cartel" but they will most likely do everything they can to prevent that from happening. I think it's the best thing to do, but staying on the grid give one the opportunity to sell electricity back to the grid and make money - the Aussies claim a VPP participant can earn up to $12,000 AUD a year.
And if the "Utility Tax" passes this fall the CPUC will have given the utilities the right to much higher monthly charges just to be connected to the grid, a disincentive when thinking of using home battery storage to be able to sell back to the grid.
Maybe they (CA) might like to try what we have in most of Australia. Over 100 power companies, all vying for your business (all selling the same thing). The law also states if you switch from one to another, it must be instantaneous. Most have no contracts, entry or exit fees either.
I remember when we all laughed at the Cartoons about "The Sky Is Falling."
Which manufacturers’s solar panels did you choose Sam?
I’d also like to know what you decided to go with.
Batteries don't last forever....how long will the resources for building these mega batteries last? ....
Batteries are recyclable and we keep finding new sources for battery materials. And then there are all the new battery types using different, more common minerals, like sodium batteries. The future is bright.
Yay! 🙂 That's good news!
How much power does California import from neighboring States?
And yet the cost of electricity goes up and up and up
Questions are how long do the batteries last. Where do they dispose of them at end of life stage. Where and how are the materials acquired to create them. How much long term damage is created doing so.
Why aren't the CA electric prices falling if there is so much electricity generated from solar energy?
awesome
This is awesome. Residential electricity in British Columbia Canada is $0.1408/kwh, and 87% is from hydro electric, with 0% from coal or nuclear. It'll be over 90% when the site-c generator comes online. I can't get solar on the house yet, but I hope to within three years.
That's great.
Well, let’s tear down all the dams now.
We need this
Spring time between winter and summer. No heaters or air conditioning. High reservior levels, with spring run off/more generation. Days getting longer more solar. Conditions usually change in May when temps increase and air conditioning starts. We are heading in the right direction.
The efficiency of this equipment decreases in ten years so much that it will need to be replaced. What cost batteries and panels? Especially batteries - their manufacture causes environmental damage, and the waste products from replacing all of the equipment is going to be another concern.
Look at the agricultural land they’re taking 🙉
Lotta trees died to make room for that 'green' energy.
ok , what can be said in few minutes does not have to be spread over 8 mins, we get it , Ca will be only renewable power based.
If it weren't for BC hydro CA would suffer an over due grid failure ! Let the western grid stop ALL back up to CA and see how wind, solar and batteries really "perform" ! !
I wish our government here in Texas would start investing in it. But they are so beholden to the oil and gas company, lobbies that they can't do. What's truly beneficial for the citizens of the state
Right there with you (DFW area). We're stuck on stupid.
They're missing the boat maybe Texas should get behind this and oil.
Oil will get repriced and margins should be good. Everything made with oil will go up. But we will be using less of it...
Gas, & diesel fuel are constituents of crude and it will be looking for another market. Not sure how that plays out whether it helps or hurts.
Same with base load coal plants.
In early build out the peaker plants should be able to buffer the grid.
Allowing the coal plants to be shut down and cleaned up.
Texas has huge wind electricity generation sweetheart
Texas actually is investing in batteries big-time now. It is lagging behind California a bit but still way ahead of other states on battery storage. And knowing Texas, the state where everything is super-sized, this state of affairs will flip around over the next few years. Texas is #1 on renewables (though not on a percentage basis since Texas is also #1 on wasting energy).
@@junkerzn7312 This is mostly due to private industry. The stuck on stupid part is the state's political leadership.
Florida. $.105 per kWh …. It makes no sense … the return on investment will generally exceed the life of the unit …
Southern California has the most expensive grid electricity in the USA with San Diego CA having peak residential rates at over $0.60 kWh. 2020 Cumberland Indiana rates were I lived were $0.10 kWh. In addition many of the SoCa power grids are in bankruptcy and sick unable to make technological and physical advancements on their high voltage transmission lines that spark forest fires causing the power grid management to turn them off during high winds creating black outs for large amounts of a week.
There are parts of California where roof top solar electric panels have turned the roofs into industrial or farming like aesthetics. Where every solar electric panel when connected to the grid without battery storage has increased the cost of grid electricity.
SoCa power grids are required to buy erratic solar electric power whenever it is available. The power grids were required to use net zero pricing, new solar electric panel installations don't get net zero, which is paying at the price the power grid charges a resident for grid quality electricity to buy erratic solar electric power. This has created a positive feed back loop where having to buy erratic solar electric power whenever available that can be largely useless or worse has caused residential rates to sky rocket to cover the costs.
The net zero pricing is then paying residences a more for a kWh of solar panel electricity that along with subsidies on buying new solar electric panels greatly increases people installing them. That causes the power grid to have to buy more erratic solar electric power they can't easy use requiring them to raise electric rates to cover their costs. The higher grid power electricity rates cause more people to buy solar electric panels.
There has been no reporting on how much natural gas or coal the SoCa power grids have been saving with renewable energy! The high price of SoCa grid electricity with many of the power grids unable to be financially solvent (San Diego CA has one of the few power grids that has been financially solvent) indicates huge expenditures with very little or even purely negative effects (using that erratic solar electric power might be cheaper if the utility were to pay for it and not use it because using it costs additional resources) on making economic low cost public power grid electricity which is the duty of a pubic power electric grid.
Imagine the impact on the power grid in places like India and Africa if they were to copy what Is now happening in California and Australia?
Imagine the growth potential for the manufacturers of grid storage solutions.
No hurry nfrastructure perfect for th lunch my distance wirelessly transmitting of energy cross th equator SUbfeeding to Ethernet cable’ing
5/4/2024 solar power 60% CALIFORNIA GRID 👍🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🏆
My prediction is that by 2030, increase in battery capacity and decrease in their charge time and decrease in solar panel costs will quadruple. At that point, nothing else makes sense. For some countries wind and geothermal might be better.
We're starting to get to the point where the dominant cost of solar panels is no longer the panels themselves, but the cost of other stuff, for example, shipping the panels, buying the land to hold them, labor to install them, new power lines to transmit their power. No matter how cheap solar panels get out of the factory, these other costs don't automatically get any cheaper. At some point, the cost of land and labor alone will put a floor on how cheap solar power can get.
Imagine the impact Australia's economy it most houses had solar panels and residential storage working as a virtual power plant.
Cheap electricity is driver of economic growth.
If CA gets around 2x more batterries than now and 2x more wind power than now and keep solar as it we can completely turn off our natural gas power plants.
Batteries are made from mined materials, lead, lithium, manganese and wrapped in plastic boxes made from petroleum products, and the chemical process will weaken the batteries over time requiring replacement which means more mining with diesel equipment and processing with electricity from fossil fuels, not to mention the materials used to make the solar panels,,
So why are electricity prices going up and up?
Greed
Solar and battery prices are still prohibitively expensive in the US for most homeowners. A major contributing factor is that electrical code requires older buildings be brought up to date with present code at a cost in the thousands of dollars before any new institution will even be considered.
This is a very good point. Well "electronical"... that made me laugh. But the regulations are very real and a lot of contractors stop right there and won't take the contract if the residence has too-old a panel (old as in technology-old, not age as in years).
Of course, many of those old panels are extreme fire hazards and the owner really ought to completely replace them anyway just for fire safety. You don't want to be pushing multiple kW for hours on end, every day for years, through an old panel (technology-wise).
I do think the regulations are a bit too strong though. One should be allowed to make minor additions, even if its only like 2kWp of solar, without being forced to upgrade a panel in an old building. There are also electrification solutions that don't require large circuits. For example, you can get an induction stove-top/oven that includes a LFP battery built-in and runs off of a single 110V outlet. There are options for people in old buildings and homes.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312 Fixed the typo . . .
It's also a matter of finding a replacement pannel that won't require structural modifications just to fit because someone decided to double or triple the width of the cabinet.
Please check your numbers... it is hard to believe that the total generation of solar in Texas is anywhere close to California.
a solar kit is as cheep as 500 bucks depending, and from reputible suppliers too, like menards
Sam , Please search Fire Power and Money to see how PG&E really operates in California.
Poor apartment owners being left behind and paying the lions share of energy costs
This is noce tobdee this movinng forward. This is actually news
All to prevent something that is inevitable on this planet......
This guy is living in the clouds, California? Yeah let's all move there!
Please correct me if I am wrong, but there is no California grid, just the Western Grid. California is a part of the Western Grid. Three grids in the US,
From my understanding, while they are interconnected, it is considered importing and exporting still. If you pay extra for green energy, they are exporting excess solar for so you're getting the same power, you just pay extra for the excess power they are selling. Texas, number one in wind and two in solar along with so much natural gas coming out of the ground as a byproduct of oil drilling, prices recently went negative is on its own grid but is about to be connected to the outside states. Texas residential power is about 10¢ and California, who also has plenty of oil but can't update the rigs to modern more efficient rigs pays 45¢
California is part of the western grid in that it is interconnected and there are a ton of cross-border agreements in place, but the California grid is essentially a separate entity managed by the CAISO. Federal agencies are also heavily involved for anything that crosses a state border.
The way to think about it is to view the entire west coast, including bits and pieces of Canada, as a single entity. That's the backbone for the ENTIRE western grid. There was one point during the massive mid-west heatwaves last year where power was being routed all the way from Canada through California to New Mexico and Arizona.
-Matt
Could you talk about the practical considerations of solar cells in cold parts of the world where we have snow?
I once saw a video of a man testing if solar panel can still work if they're snow covered it was still powered Albeit significantly underpowered
In the north the panels both roof and ground based are typically at a steeper angle so normally the snow just slides off.
I live in Wisconsin and solar in winter does suck on a few days after a heavy snow but it clears up. I averaged 40kw a day this past winter. Summer I easily double that
Won’t work as well where it is cloudy days at a time
That is why you need batteries to offset the cloudy days.
Even on cloudy days panels generate electricity. Not as much though.
The same with night time.
That is where wind power helps.
If you think retail electricity prices will fall as a result of solar + batteries, tell them you're dreaming (to coin a phrase from an aussie classic movie). Project IRR calculations will be done at current pricing, and so the electricity must be sold at these rates to keep investors amd bankers happy.
But yes, install solar on your home. Then the home owner gets the benefit of cheap power. Our system (my design and build, cost me US$14,000 at current exchange rate) is fully paid back after 4 years, and i am using this years feed in tariff to pay for upgraded panels, which i will install in June. 20kW solar panels, 70kWh battery storage (repurposed EV battery modules), and overnight export of surplus power (to keep within our 10kW export limit during the day)
I want to know which is cheaper, centralized or decentralized power? What is the energy loss with a grid? Can I go all-DC to reduce losses by conversion, AC-DC?
Rooftop PV 5 times as costly to install compared to grid-scale. All subsidies should be moved to grid-scale.
Depends. Rooftop PV is less impactful on ecosystems, so there is some public good in offering subsidies to increase the amount of PV that's rooftop. Whether enough subsidy to make rooftop PV worth it is good policy or not, that's a judgement call.
And what happens to all that hazardous material when it has to be recycled at the end of its life cycle (batteries, solar panels, and turbines)? What resources will be used to transport these materials to recycling centers and then recycle these materials? What will become of all the hazardous materials?
Morning mate
THATS WHY CALIFORNIA HAS THE HIGHEST ELECTRIC RATES IN THE COUNTRY AND NEED POWER FROM OTHER STATES !!!
Somebody tell the Viking that California already has no coal generation. And California is well ahead of Texas in renewable energy.
Beautiful land has been transformed for the worse too by the look of it
Does that mean that Californians can now charge their EVs at night?