Misconceptions About Cults
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- Charles Manson and Jim Jones are two of the most infamous, sinister cult leaders. But are they the exception, or the rule? Let's break down the myths surrounding cult communes, women-led cults, and the average demographic of a cult member.
Host Justin Dodd (@juddtoday) breaks down some common myths and misconceptions about the mysterious world of cults.
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"I’ve been involved in a number of cults both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower but you make more money as a leader."
- Creed Bratton
you beat me to it! hehe
Yes!
I wish you'd explored how to recognize being in a cult from the inside. It seems so easy from the outside. But it's so easy to assume it could never happen to YOU.
Yes! I've been borderline obsessed with cults since I was about 12 and first heard about Jonestown. I didn't realize until after I'd already gotten out that I was part of a cult from age 14 until 20. You often never see it when you're the one it's happening to.
Also most people thinking only dumb people join cults makes it so much easier for cults to retain members.
It leaves people thinking that because they and so many other members are highly educated, that the cult couldn’t possibly be a cult.
It is a fascinating phenomenon that exceptionally (far above average) intelligent people become involved in absurd cults such as Heaven's Gate, Scientology, and QAnon. They will then remain faithful to the cult and defend it after its predictions (if it makes any) repeatedly prove false. I believe a strong factor that keeps people in cults is a desire to avoid the humiliation that comes from admitting one has been absurdly wrong and has tried to recruit others to an absurdly wrong belief system. Back in the 70s, I was part of a communal cult for a short time. It was quite authoritarian. Other communal cults of which I have heard were likewise authoritarian. Possessions in them are shared equally but not power.
As the leader of one, we prefer the term "High pressure group" , less stigma to it ;P
I love catching glimpses of Justin's fantastic manicures!
AND, this was a great episode.
Love your nail polish! Banging'!
Well done, thank you!
I love the color you chose for your nails!
I've always found the hardest part about discussing anything about cults is the loose definition that society seems to have. Especially here in America everyone seems to have a strong opinion on religion, and it seems to me that those beliefs and prejudices often influence the data by virtue of whether some groups are included or not. Personally I just simply define a cult as: A group, sometimes religious, that worships their leader(s).
By that definition, Christianity would be a cult.
Number of years spent in school is an indicator of your psychology and later your financial status. It doesn't really indicate intelligence until you get to master's level stuff. And there is more than one kind of intelligence. You can be genius engineer and still have the emotional intelligence of a tween. I want to know if specific types of intelligence and education could influence whether or not you would join a cult. For intelligence, I'd want to know if cult members are emotionally introspective, if they are prone to trusting confidant personalities, and if they are skilled at reading people's behavior. For education, I'd want to know they are knowledgeable about human psychology, history of religion, methods of logic and reasoning, and critical thinking. And I don't mean if they passed a class in college, I mean actual comprehension of the subject.
JWs will prey on folks who have recently gone through major life shifts, like the loss of a loved one. My husband got a letter from one of their Kingdom Hall locations in Indiana where he grew up after his sister passed away, they were trying to convince him to join their congregation.
To anyone else reading this, I wanna offer a different perspective. My sister and I grew up as a Jehovah's Witnesses and while neither of us are part of them anymore, we hold absolutely no grudge against them.
If anything, we were treated very well and respectfully the entire time we were there. Our foster grandpa was an elder and he died when I was 11 and she was 10, and we kept going to the meetings a few years after.
We both left simply because we don't share the same beliefs and we wished to experience the world our own way, which we were both allowed to do peacefully. They did try to convince us to stay, but once we decided to go through with it, there was no effort to stop us from doing it, which is common with cults.
We only experienced affection and understanding over there and no manipulation or psychological pressure.
I understand others have different, more vile experiences, but I'd argue it's because they are people and in any large enough group of people, you'll find such things. It's not their goal to do so, I believe.
It's not just Witnesses, it's many Christians of various denominations. When my close friend died, at his *funeral* where everyone was mourning, grieving, and crying, the pastor paused the eulogy to ask, "Is there anyone here who hasn't found Jesus?" And when one woman raised her hand, he had her stand up and said some mumbo-jumbo Biblical shit to try and "help her find Jesus and feel his love." In other words, he used my friend's death as an opportunity to recruit religious followers. I was so angry that I balled my fist and gnashed my teeth through the tears I had been weeping; it's disgusting and exploitative.
The only difference between a religion and a religious cult is the number of followers, which in many ways makes religion the more dangerous of the two.
@@Lufernaal My grandmother also grew up as a JW and she experienced the exact opposite you did. I'm glad you didn't have to go through the absolute hell some do go through, but understand your experience is definitely not the norm and it's a big reason why JWs are considered a cult in the first place.
@@Lufernaal
Were you a baptized JW’s, or just someone who had JW parents and who went to meetings but never actually technically were JW’s?
JW’s certainly view non-JW, or “worldly” people as “bad association,” and are repeatedly warned to avoid too much association with anyone like this.
There are countless stories of teens raised among JW, who like you decide to leave, and are then kicked out of the house, or just “soft shunned.”
Doomsday cults, while the people inside are definitely polite and kind and polished, like all salespeople, they are not the good sanitarian. They don’t view people of other religions as worthy of time. They believe any moment everyone who isn’t a JW will be destroyed in Armageddon, so don’t put a lot of time into that whole helping “orphans and widows” or those in physical need. (james).
It’s great that you were allowed to fade away and keep contact. Most JW who want to leave, lose many friends, and if they officially leave, they definitely lose everyone. This is a control mechanism.
The BITE model of cults is all about control. And of course control is something JW excel at, from dress and grooming to beard to what they read and don’t read.
It’s the level of harm and control that often define a cult. And no one in a cult ever thinks they are in a cult. That’s how cults work.
@@Lufernaal
Nothing you said actually disagreed with the original commenter. They certainly absolutely do focus on the vulnerable in society. Those without friends, those who experienced the loss of a loved one. This who went through hardship. While not framing it that way, they do have meetings where many many many times this thing has been said. In their “service meetings” they do emphasize finding these ones, the downtrodden, broken-hearted, etc. But really, they are vulnerable people at their lowest who are emotionally vulnerable.
Anyway, my point was, you didn’t really disagree with what the original poster was saying. From their perspective, they see it as an opportunity to find someone who will be awake to the truth at that moment. But of course, from an outsiders perspective, they are preying on vulnerable, isolated, elderly type people, people without healthy relationships, without family.
I guess I know too much about cults. Lol Although I did almost join a cult that is alien based last year due to loneliness, until I snapped out of it. I don't even believe that aliens visit our planet. 😆 That's how enticing these people can be when you're vulnerable.
🤔
These videos are so well-written. Everything from ap lang spooking me in my mind like "Oh, that's what they meant!"
A couple of decades ago, I met some of The Family's former children. My partner at the time was the daughter of a member who broke away.
Interesting times
Scientology
Okay, as soon as he said he would join that one cult right after showing her with her hair wildly blue to match her wild outfit... all I could see for the rest of his time on the screen was him in drag to match her. Thank you SO MUCH for that image. It'll never be unseen, so to speak. I'm sure that color would be FABULOUS on our host here.
Can you explain the "12 years of education" and also being college educated? 12th grade is still high school....
I think it was the "more than 12 years" we were focusing on, although I could see how "college-educated" is arguably misleading in that context since it might imply that we're talking about college graduates, when "more than 12 years" really only suggests "they finished high school and then did some amount of college."
I research cults a lot because I worry about getting sucked into one because it can happen to anyone
That's admirable.
Look up the BITE model of Mindcontrol.
No. It can't.
@@The_Other_Ghost oh I have, but thank you for the suggestion
@@DevAngelo thank you
Educated does not necessarily mean smart. It surprises me how many times "educated" is used as the counter argument to "smart people don't get suckered in by cults".
"Former cult members" are the ones who were smart enough to get out.
But dumb enough to join
@@blondebeard6335 People who believe themselves to be immune to manipulation are often the ones most susceptible to it
@@blondebeard6335 True, but Jim does have a point that it's a bit of sampling bias that may skew the results a bit. If you're trying to determine the makeup of "people who join cults", you need to include the ones who joined and are still there, too.
Lucky enough
Educated =\= Intelligent
I mean it might be a good indicator but i have met plenty of people in university that i would not classify as intelligent.
If you grew up in the LDS church, you were basically in a cult. That church is insane, for so many reasons. Although, these days I’m not even partial to religion anymore.
I just accidentally discovered a new turn on. Painted nails and a lumberjack shirt. How you doin’? Call me.
Where is Shelly miscavige
Cults, not actually an english rock band, they're from NYC.
Scientology!!!
The only difference between a religion and a cult, is the number of people involved.
Why wasn't scientology covered? The latter end of this episode pretty much covered their particular form of a cult
I've never thought about it.... Bit yes... We always think of cults being led by men...thank you for this video♥️💙💜
As a dude I can only think of dude cults. Never thought about it. Huh.
2:00 Awww. I thought for sure that you were going to say, "Oprah".
Color me disappointed.
you go girls!!!!
A cult of personality? Ah, like Mussolini, or Kennedy.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who though about that.
Every Aussie flinched when Melbourne was said. We know how it's spelt but it's pronounced like Mel-bin.
That’s because you all have a speech impediment where you can’t pronounce your ‘R’s.
I know you from Australia and I’m not, but based on the spelling, even if every Australian is pronouncing it that way, you are all wrong.
I think it comes from the root words that mean Mel Born, because Mel Gibson was born there. Facts.
You kinda sound like the It's Okay To Be Smart guy
If your cult is successful enough, it becomes a religion
Is it just me or does Justin's face look too red in this video ?!
Is no one ready to talk about how lonely college really is? College is never and has never been about community.
are u aware the facial hair doesn't match the hair up on top ur head?
Genetics. Not all hair is the same color, even on the same person.
Sometimes i wish i had less morals, I could lead a cult but no matter how fun it would be it would just feel too icky
omg yes I tell my friends that all the time. damn morals are holding me back.
There has to be a point where a cult leader believes on some level what he is doing. I have family members who are amoral and illogical. Beliefs and ideas in contradiction and who, when the going gets tough, are willing to crush their opposition, but believe they are good people doing God's work. This has been the story of much of humanity. Cult behaviour is built into our DNA. It's what forms societies.
they're very dangerous. Cultus is Latin means to follow, Scientology is one also
I like this equation: Religion = Cult + Church
I remember having a theological discussion with my boss where I characterized the religion I was raised within as a cult. (LDS, in case you are curious.) Even though he was Catholic, he got rather indignant. I don't know exactly why but I guess he thought that if the LDS could be considered a cult, then so could the Catholic church.
At the time I considered LDS to be more cult-like compared to Catholicism. I don't exactly know why. Maybe just because they've been around so much longer. But after watching this I realized one useful distinction in that cults tend to emotionally isolate their members. The LDS church definitely does this. They very much discourage members from getting information from unapproved sources. And LDS are expected to abstain from coffee and alcohol. That may not seem like such a big deal. But how much social interaction occurs outside the workplace where alcohol or coffee aren't involved? Not much. I know when my dad had a work-related event like a dinner or conference to attend, he would have minimal participation. Once dinner was done, he would excuse himself before the drinks really started flowing. He was definitely emotionally isolated from his coworkers. Also, LDS are definitely taught that all kinds of terrible things will happen if they leave the church.
My impression is that the Catholic Church isn't so heavy-handed in this way. I could be wrong.
The term cult actually has a very loose definition. One scholar defined cult the way a layperson uses it as “a religion I don’t like.” So to an atheist all religions may be cults and to a Christian LDS may be considered a cult. I personally think a cult is any organisation that has very high coercive control on its members and a veneration of a human leader. In the Catholic Church general there is little coercive control (except apparently of your a young boy). How involved you get in the Church is really up to you. There’s no earthly person at least to punish you if you miss lent and no accountability for attending church regularly. Also my impressions of the pope is that while there is reverence for him, there’s no true religious devotion to him. He’s mainly a distant 100% human figure who’s just the leader of the Church’s organisation.
Speaking as a former catholic, they’re pretty cult-like too. I was basically ex-communicated when I got pregnant at 17 and had my son when I turned 18. I wasn’t allowed (they’ll say asked politely) to hang out with my friends at youth group while I was visibly pregnant. Rather than embrace my mistake and use my situation as an example of how life can throw you curve-balls when you make unwise decisions I was told not to come back because other kids might make the same choice I made and end up pregnant too. They are so guilt driven I still suffer from moments of anxious guilt (it’s not crippling or anything) over things that happened dozens of years ago. I used to worry whether I’d be accepted in to heaven because of the stupid choices I made. It was horrible and probably part of where my depression stems from. I’ve gotten to the point now I’m convinced ALL religions are cults and if God (or whatever you believe in) manifested themself on earth right now they’d die laughing at the stupidity of us humans and our reliance on religion and the fighting in religion’s name. I’m much happier not spending hours of my Sunday devoted to prepping and going to church. I worship (or whatever) in my own way and I’m totally good with it!
@@piperchristian77 Interesting. I'm sorry you went through that. It sounds awful. I guess things can look a lot different from the outside.
@@MaliqueDon Well I'll take it as a compliment that you think my words are that persuasive. But be realistic. No one reads a comment like this then totally changes their fundamental spiritual beliefs in an instant. At best someone who is already suffering under the oppression imposed on them will read this then maybe start to consider that it isn't working for them and they might need a change. But if religion is all that wonderful, explain to me why they are suffering?
Face it. Your religion has done terrible things to many people. And I say that confidently without even knowing what your religion is. Because all of them have done that.
@@MaliqueDon No such thing as a "good religion".
How is this any different than political parties?
Look up ex Mormons
The majority of followers may have more than a twelfth grade education, but you have to remember that your level of education has absolutely nothing to do with your level of intelligence.
Education never stops, but intelligence does.
Exactly. There's people out there with proper medical degrees who believe in vaccine conspiracy theories for example.
Even geniuses can be brainwashed.
cults prey on the disenfranchised and weak-minded.. same as hypnotism.
??
You left out Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists.
I think they claim to be religions
@@alechall7082 They always do, but consider this: in the 1800s a bunch of people trekked across the plains in the dead of winter, and many died, because they believed what a guy with 44 wives said. Several of those wives were minors, and others were already married to other men. One of their offshoot sects is responsible for a significant amount of the organized crime in Utah. If you tried to start that today, no one would hesitate to call it a cult.
@@eighthourlunch Clearly you don't understand LDS doctrines about marriage/sealings or the historical context behind them.
@@eighthourlunch But I'm totally with you on the Scientology thing.
@@anoel247 I understand better than you think. I was raised a fifth generation Mormon whose g×4 grandfathers were among the original church leadership. I've read thousands of pages from books and research, including your canon of scripture. I didn't just arrive at the conclusion that Mormonism is a cult on a whim.
Speaking of cults in everyday life, and one even founded by a woman... Ever hear of Shaker Furniture? Yep that's a cult-produced product.
Also Onida cutlery! Historical cults are very interesting.
The #1 misconception is that you can call your cult a religion if it gets enough followers. Nope. Xianity, Judaism, Islam, and so on... all cults.
Qanon
Why would it be surprising that college education isn't incompatible with cult membership? Universities heavily promote a culture of strict ideological conformity. In order to get through in one piece as an intelligent and independent-minded person, one needs to either consign themselves to regularly lying and grow comfortable enough with it, or, in order to reduce cognitive dissonance, practice doublethink by changing one's mind to conform to whatever's required at the moment. This is good training in the practice of ideological conformity --- essential to cult membership.
I was thinking about starting a cult and becoming its leader. Cult leaders always get the hot chicks.
... that's got to be one of the most boring videos in the last year. None of those misconceptions are actually things a lot of people believe.
Did you do a study to find out? No? then shut up.
Wow this channel has gone to hell.
How so?
You could always unsub from it. I'm positive they won't miss you.
One of the most interesting cults is feminism because its religious ideology doesn't include an afterlife.