SERDI PROFILE - The Most ADVANCED Valve Seat Machine On The Market?
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- Be Sure To Visit SERDI in Machinery Row Booth 5201 At PRI Show 2023 December 7th-9th!
@machinesserdi3318 recently invited me to their facility in North Carolina to learn all about their latest single point CNC valve seat machine, the SERDI PROFILE!
The PROFILE is the latest single point CNC Machine from Serdi. More than 10 years of experience in single point technology condensed into the most advanced machine on the market. Ease of use, speed and accuracy brought to a whole new level, leaving all competition behind. Extremely versatile machine appropriate for machining any kinds of cylinder heads, from small motorcycle to large stationary engine. It does it all.
Longer Form Technical Video: Coming Soon
Chapters:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:02 Introducing Renaud From France
00:01:26
Form Tool Vs. Single Point Cutting Inserts
00:02:08 Machine Axes Explanation
00:03:24 CNC Controlled Spindle Speed
00:03:59 Auto Balance Facing Head
00:04:47 Leveling The Cylinder Head
00:05:27 Hydraulic Collet For Pilot
00:06:14 Defining Cutting Tip Diameter
00:06:48 Describing A Seat Profile For A “Recut”
00:09:14 Programming Seat Diameter
00:09:34 Programming Machining Datas
00:10:45 Setting Centering Float Time
00:11:27 Seat “Touch Off”
00:13:46 Setting Z Offset
00:14:31 Simulating Tool Path
00:14:41 Cutting The First Seat!
00:15:49 Modifying The Programmed Profile
00:17:40 Increasing The Depth
00:19:09 Chip Guard
00:19:22 Comparing To Cutting On A Form Tool Machine
00:20:18 Valve Seat Runout Check
00:21:43 Cutting A More Complicated Profile
00:25:13 Slow-Mo Seat Cutting Action
00:25:29 Transitioning to Cutting Exhaust Seats
00:27:03 Programming & Cutting A Blank Seat Insert
00:31:29 Seat Counterbore Programming & Cutting
00:33:14 Measuring Counterbore & Setting Tool Wear Compensation
00:35:54 Recutting Seat Counterbore (Slow-Mo Action)
00:36:14 Verifying Seat Counterbore Diameter Accuracy
00:36:49 Counterbore Form Tool VS Single Point Comparison
00:37:09 Outro & PRI Show 2023 Invite - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Be Sure To Visit SERDI in Machinery Row Booth 5201 At PRI Show 2023 December 7th-9th!
Let us know if you’re going! The cleaning guy & I will be wandering around all week 😎
I'll be there, crying over the machines I can't afford, lol.
This is the whole experience of PRI as a machinist or fabricator lol
Quite an Amazing flexable Machine but I don't know.....Lots of Math & many Key Strokes Required 😢 .....I Know I'm Not 100% accurate with any Keyboard Entries & Input entry do Happen.....I'm Not getting any younger & feels more More cut Risk errors prone compared to setting up a Known good Single multi-Angle cutter....
Looked for y'all at PRI. Was in the Serdi booth a couple times but missed ya.
Shoot! Sorry we missed you lol!
Whenever someone says they're "kind of" an expert, you know you've found the right person. They know what they know, and they know there's always still more to learn.
Always wished I had went into automotive machine work. I'm 62 and have had a very productive nearly 45 years as a professional mechanic, and later as an Automatic Transmission shop owner operator. I've been using the same machinist for nearly that long. First the father and now the son.
i can just imagine how much more cfm flow would be if the cylinder heads were fitted with race valves or severe duty valves
I would agree. I wish i had got into engine machining. I am in aircraft machining and would love to have access to the machines i need to get my ls3 block work done.
I'm 55 have been a professional mechanic since 1986 and remember grinding valve seats with a pilot in valve guide and stone attached to basically a big hand drill and that was considered high tech 😂😂
@@mgmjferg89If you want the absolute best machine work possible send your block to qmp racing in Chatsworth California.
@jeffbear5317
Thank you Jim's and Serdi. Very informative.
Our pleasure!
glad I'm not the only French viewer and it's nice that they are people in your industry, shoutout to Serdi Machines! :)
Non tu n’est clairement pas le seul👍
Alot of factories and metal shops in the US have French machines. I ran Amada break press and turret press
Renaud's knowledge and use of English is impressive, especially given that it's a second language for him!
He was great to work with!
He knows a few english.
Using polar coordinates instead of cartesian coordinates makes perfect sense for this machine. Bravo, Serdi.
That is insane! One tool and you can deshroud, cut the seat, and presumably match the bottom of the seat and port. So much possibilty!
Coming from the age of grinding seats, myself, this left my head spinning.
All your content is great, but when a multinational machine tool company reaches out to you based on the work they have seen you produce, it speaks volumes about your skill and dedication to the achievement of perfection.
Agreed. You are definitely very talented at your craft young man. Keep up the great work. Enjoy your content almost daily.
A huge advantage of using the single point insert on this machine will be virtually eliminating the chatter that you will get from the large cutting edge on a profile type insert.
That’s pretty amazing! Imagine being able to undercut to make the transition as smooth as possible. Bloody marvellous!
Never have to wait for a custom cutter ever again
Exactly! And when you find out you really wanted a 32° angle on that custom cutter instead of the 35° you ordered, you can change it on the fly instead of waiting all over again! lol
And the price point on the cutters, you can probably get a pack of single point cutters it uses for the price of one special cutter I’d imagine.
Having a great CZcams channel with hundreds of thousands of people enjoying your content is a huge factor on whether or not this becomes affordable. The cleaning guys hot rods and tractor generate a whole lot of interest!! The dyno series and build of the small block was a page turner. I mean video turner. The way they compliment each other is too cool!!
Seems if your doing performance heads this is the next best thing since sliced bread!
I'm glad that your hard work and talent are recognized
Props to the Serdi Rep for having to deal with imperial and never skips a beat!
This machine is amazing. I wonder if it can do non-circular shapes by running the u-axis in and out depending upon the angle.
If it can, it would be able to cut the valve guide and the head around the valve guide to blend into the valve... Perfectly accurately.
I am not sure if this particular machine can do this but I heard a tech talk from one of the big names in Pro Stock several years back where they mentioned they were doing exactly that. IIRC, the presenter said that the seat has to transition into the throat which will be oblong, not round, so they used a single point cutter like this that made the top and main angles round but the throat angle transitioned to the runner shape slightly.
Thanks for sharing hope you guys had a great thanksgiving
Great videos.
Lots of learning!
merci beacoup!
Absolutely fascinating technology!
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
What a incredible machine, I will link this to my friends in France 🇫🇷
This is an amazing bit of kit
I didn't know that Serdi was French. I'm not surprised either. This is pretty neat. CNC has changed so much in machining.
Newen, the company which originally developed this technology, is also French. It was founded in 1992 by two former Serdi engineers.
wow, seems like a very valuable machine.
Very nice piece of machinery....good content...thanks.
Way cool!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great demo!
Thanks!
this is now a cooking channel for metal machining
that was impressive. now of only you had marked the seats so we could see the infinitesimal cuts being made.
those chips were SMALL
Should’ve brought my Dykem lol
Once you move to this type of machine you will never go back. I have been using the Newen cnc for around 10 years now and it is next level compared to anything else. It still takes an experienced operator to produce consistency. They cost a lot but the standard of work it produces is so much better. The only downside is the cutting cycle times are longer than a conventional machine.
That CNC machine is the right tool for production work and you need to batch out a run of heads.
On the flip side, I think it makes one off work easier as well! And you can save your program for the next time that style head arrives in 2 years!
That is super nice to have , so what is the, "but" answer to not getting one of the new CNC machines then, other than affordability of your shop's budget?@@JAMSIONLINE
This machine was not on the market when we made our investment in early 2020. Had it been and had we known what I know about the machine now, it would have been a very serious consideration despite the increased cost over the Serdi 4.5 that we purchased.
Either way, they're both fantastic machines. Serdi has a reputation for quality and our experience has been that they provide the customer service to match!
Dude! That's wicked. Can do the throat taper like using the sandpaper flap wheel before final cut on the seat. Like an infinite angle valve job.
“Babe what’re you doing? Get off me, put your clothes back on.. Jamsionline has a new video out”
with that machine i can imagine a curved radius valve seat. machining valves to match. no abrupt transitions at the seat equals less turbulence equals smoother flow enabling faster air flow.
WOW ! What a nice machine ? $$$$$$$ is all it takes !
In some videos, certain valve seat material were difficult to cut. I am thinking about how those valves seats could be better cut with this CNC machine.
Exactly! This machine would tackle hard seats no problem!
A form cutter has much more load to make a cut while the single point tool cuts effortlessly! Amazing
A French guy doing messurement in Imperial!?
Now thats a treat.
Thanks for the video.
Notification SQUAD!! Have a nice weekend!🔥🔥🔥
Same to you!
@@JAMSIONLINEThank you!😄
Come on Serdi, you should sponsor the guys a machine for content! 🏁 win win
🧐😏
I have no clue about all the technology but it was awesome watching.
Great video wonderful machine gotta take and do a lot of valve jobs to pay for it though that's the only problem great video
What an awesome S&G machine, reminds Me of thr Newen single point machine, I'd be interested to see a head to head comparison of the features and benifits of each..
I think Serdi bought Newen.
@@shawnthomas7404No, they are two different companies. Newen developed the technology first. They were actually founded in 1992 by two former Serdi engineers.
132 👍's up thank you for sharing 😊
Thanks for watching!
Super-detailed videos like this are awesome. I’m curious how many professional racing organizations in the USA use Serdi machines? Must be at least 95% of them.
Hard to say, but I dont think there are thaaat many of these CNC serdis in use... I dont know how a shop could set up with this quality of equipment and turn a profit, thats a whole lot of valve jobs.
Video it self is nice but man over 50 adverts to watch it is insane. 😮
@32:00 the reason for the discrepancy is because the probe has swarf under it. It should have been desinged that it probes each hole before cutting then uses that probe measurement and cuts off that, so it doesn't use the probe while cutting.
Unless I'm wrong and it only uses it as a first measurement.
Yay first comment!
Used to work for Edelbrock and did the valve jobs for a few months, their Serdis are probably from the 90s and were in dire need of service but we still made it work somehow 😅. Wish we had this kind of stuff while I was there. We had some CNC Rottlers and got some training to set those up but they would always give us issues especially with runout...would have saved so much work if we were able to get it running properly, but in the end they ended up ditching them and they're slowly starting to add valve job cycles to their HAAS machines.
I have owned Edelbrock heads, a dyno session and ONE race meeting and all the seats were leaking and one bent valve. Dissaapointing on brand new roller cam race heads.
@@ldnwholesale8552 They've had a reputation for selling bad heads that need work out of the box for a while and after working there for a couple years I am not at the least bit surprised. Leadership valued numbers over quality
dont no a whole about what he is talking about but
I love this stuff
If a CNC machine was on my purchase list to be functionally value added it would have to cut an interpolated circle or ellipse or other offset throat shapes. This is just a programmable concentric seat cutter. Takes the place of form tools and will cut hard seats better without chatter. A good thing but I could not justify the cost based on just that feature or the skim cut features shown.
Then there is the service aspect.. I can fix my S100 and still get parts. Having to call the factory when some electronic issue arises..
Is this machine only for doing seats, so you would need to keep the older machine around for doing guides. Also if something goes wrong in the electronics, you would be setting dead in the water if you didnt have the older machine.
I'm sticking with my Neway hand seat cutters! 🤣
Means you can cut radiuses for valve seats, a very popular profile in aviation valves
Surprised Steve Morris hasn't bought one of these yet. I bet Jackstand would buy one in a hot minute.
Steve has a 5 axis doing his ports his setup is more advanced than this already.
He still cuts his seats on a Rottler form tool machine though! Porting & valve job are two different processes.
very cool machine!! Getting one?
On the wish list lol
What hardness, Rockwell c. I’ve cut 66, more plunge and slide. And can it handle radius vs the simple angles on taper, seat and any reliefs.
it looks like you could eliminate the need to use bowl hogs also. the money amd time savings seems substantial.
Yep! The cutter can do everything from deshrouding to blending into the bowl in a single process!
I could see the benefit of not having to have a different cutter for every available angle combination. That all in one cnc head is nice but deff more technologically involved.
Such a nice machine! Enough to make you sick Lol!
Can the cnc machine copy the profile of a valve and cut the seat to exactly mimic the valve? Thus perhaps eliminating the need for lapping of the valve.
This makes me realize that I'm not sure how we cut the valve seats at work. Maybe they are delivered pre-cut, that could explain why we have so many varieties, I will have to check next time i pass by the cylinder head line.
I work at a factory building heavy duty diesel engines, which includes machining and assembly. We also do prototype work, so would not surprise me to find a machine like this on the prototype line.
Either single point or plunge and slide depending.
@jamsionline what is the name of the micrometer used to measure the seat counterbores and do they make them that measure in thousandths?
If you look up "three point internal micrometer" you will see some different options. The Mitutoyo ones are called "holtest" micrometers I believe. They have standard sizes as well as digital. They're on my tool wish list as they're very handy, but they're also quite expensive lol.
How’d you like North Carolina?
NC is my old stomping grounds.
If you get to go back anytime soon, have some Bojangles and don’t forget the BoBerry Biscuit for dessert.
#LetsGoCanes
lol Cane’s is my jam but I did have Bojangles when I couldn’t find a Cane’s! It was pretty dang good but I missed the dessert! Hopefully Serdi will have me back sometime and I’ll try again lol
I enjoyed it but there were too many trees 😂 I like being able to see for miles with the Rocky Mountains in the distance haha
I live in Charlotte. Wheres the Serdi sales plant located?
Mooresville
This is awesome!
That sure beats the old school stones i have in my home shop!
Does the single point tool mean you can do undercuts too?
Yes! Venturi shapes are possible!
A question springs to mind and 33:04 shows this best, I think. How does the machine handle swarf that gets between the probe and the deck? Especially if it continually references the probe.
The probe references once when you first move to that seat. It isn't constantly referencing during the cut if that makes sense.
@@JAMSIONLINE It does, thank you.
From what was said in the video it seemed as if the machine was constantly referencing the probe every time it cut and the probe made contact with the deck.
I wonder how many heads you need to do in order to pay it off XD awesome machine!
I was wondering the same but... I think a more intense view for shops like JAMSI is how much times does it save to allow me to perform other money generating tasks vs the Serdi that they have? Thats a tough question to answer. I suspect this CNC Serdi is aimed at production shops like Dart, Edelbrock, etc.
Finally something that is better than stones.
can I use all my existing cutters in the new machine?
It wasn't long ago when they said a 5 angle racing valve. How can you cut 5 angles in that little space?
As I was watching the chips fly out and land on the deck surface as the probe came down, I couldn't help but wonder what kind of problems might be caused by a metal chip getting stuck between the deck and the probe. Is there normally air blowing the chips off or something like that?
The probe only measures prior to the cut, it’s not actively measuring during a cut. So as long as you make sure there are no chips under when you initially center on that guide it is no problem.
@@JAMSIONLINE Aahhh... okay
so for the cost of all this cnc goodness how many seats do you need to cut to pay for it? Does it speed things up that much to make you money? I don't care about the tech, I care about the cash flow.
But.. is that a pilot that goes into the guide?
Because
One has to install new guides first correct? If you have a head with 2-300k miles, can you trust the "seats" to be "true" in relation to the guides? I wouldn't think there is a "tolerance" relation between the two. (?)
All valve seat machines reference off of the guide and therefore the guide must be in good condition to expect your seat to come out in good condition. If your guide is worn out, you can’t expect decent seat results. That’s true for all methods of resurfacing valve seats.
How much for the Serdi cnc?
What if a piece of cutting debris gets stuck under the probe tip?
Hi! I just ran across a warning in the repair manual. It warned me not to stamp the rods to mark them with a marker. I disassembled before I had the manual and I always stamp the rods in three spots rod and cap on either side of the joint and 1 on the cap. Should I worry? Should I get them checked at a machine shop? Should I suck it up and get new ones? I am going to reman the engine so I can sell it, I want a new toy! If anyone could let me know what to do or should do I would highly appreciate it! It's on a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.7L V6
I can see the flat bed pulling up now.
Sell the old one advertise head work and get everything in the region
No, don’t sell the old one. Keep it for breakdowns or maintenance on the new machine.
Is the delivered weight of the new machine much different than the old? Seems like they they could get away with a lighter casting, since the loads are smaller. It shouldn't ever see heavy cuts by design.
Would do a better job for roundness then a form tool I would expect
Impressive machine. I can see the old school brigade thinking this is a bit OTT and that you need a lot of valve seat work to justify the investment.
Harbour Fright tool trolley….
Same as the Newen contour.
So this is obviously meant to go head to head with Newen’s Contour BB cnc single point machine. Do they both operate the same, besides the different graphical interface (software)? I haven’t gotten up close and personal with a Newen and this is first I’ve laid eyes of Serdi’s version, but I can’t really see how you could do it any other way besides the three axis he demonstrated here.
Great machine no doubt, however the Siemens sinumerical (sp?) control seemed a little , how to say it, uhh, metric” to me. Like from what I could make out of the their wording it seems a little at odds to what we r used to here in the states. Obviously it’s only a matter of getting familiar with the controls but it just didn’t seem entirely inuitive to me yet it could have been the language barrier with their rep (he did a pretty good job though for it not being his native tongue).
Wearing headphones (as my wife plays her piano) I heard a telephone ringing close to the end, dimly. Ron W4BIN
So this is basically the same as a Newen contour
What is the price of one of those machines?
I’m certain this a great improvement over previous machines of this type. I just wish I could understand the French gentleman’s accent.
If you enable the CZcams provided closed captions on the video they are pretty accurate! We will work on correcting any errors in them.
@@JAMSIONLINEI tried the CC. Didn’t help much.
You could probably get rid of most of not all of the chatter by putting a rubber grommet - band on the guide shaft .
Next video - "We bought the Serdi Profile machine!"
someone tell me how much this machine costs ?
Watch the cleaning guy is probably want to know something about this I hope he cleaned up the metal shaving after the video was finished
Bruh!
Far out!
Why does this Serdi leaves its competitors like Newen behind? And is it more advanced than the Newen? A lot of High end shops uses Newen contours and epocs and the machines have been around for the last 16 years
Bottom of Line, is the Serdi better than the Newen? And why?
I doubt the CNC boring head is proprietary. You could build you own.
Great video and awesome technology in the new Serdi; however, Frenchy was hard to understand.
There is no comparison to the CNC ,machine ,What the difference is in dollars ,When your looking for Horse power gains This is the way to fly, doing profiles then flow bench flow testing when your looking for that bit of Horse power
yes, especially when it comes to a difference of a couple ten thousandths of an inch and a few horsepower