The 16V Li-Ion Battery used by Tesla
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 04. 2023
- Check out the 16 Volt Li-Ion battery used in new Tesla Models S, 3, X, and Y. Learn how to determine if your Tesla has one. Learn the location, function, battery self-protection function, and precautions of the 16-volt system.
Use my Referral code link to purchase a new Tesla ts.la/john304015
CORRECTIONS:
1. The 16V battery uses prismatic cells from CATL, not pouch cells.
POST-VIDEO ADDITIONS:
1. The 16V negative terminal is NOT connected to the battery housing; it is isolated.
2. During an on-car 16V battery discharge experiment, the MOSFET transistors opened with the battery voltage at 13.8V, the State of Charge (SOC) was ~10%, and the car shut off. The discharge took 10 minutes.
3. With the MOSFETs open, a regular battery jumper box (12.6V) did not power up the system; however, the boost feature of the jumper box brought the voltage to 13.9V, and the Tesla immediately turned on. The 16V battery took another 30 minutes to fully recover from 10% SOC to 79% SOC.
TIMELINE:
0:00 Introduction
0:48 How to determine if your Tesla has a 16V Li-Ion battery?
1:25 The location of the 16V battery on a Model 3
1:50 The jump-start terminals of the Model 3
2:18 Owner's manual jump-start cautions
2:56 Owner's manual low-voltage power socket note.
4:18 Mislabeled 16V batteries
5:29 MUST SEE: Differences between 16V Li-Ion abs 12V Lead Acid battery
7:45 MUST SEE: The push-fit battery 16V electrical connector
8:55 The jump-start terminals of the Model Y
9:28 The Internal self-protection mode of the 16V battery
11:10 MUST SEE: Conditions for the MOSFET to open in protection mode
15:17 What alert is displayed with a bad 16V battery?
15:42 MUST SEE: How to recover a 16V battery with an open MOSFET
16:08 The owner's manual method of recovery
17:47 The service manual method of recovery
18:15 Disconnecting the 16V battery
21:12 The Toolbox 3 and service mode methods of recovery
23:24 College-level EV training as a WSU student at www.weber.edu/automotive
23:24 EV training for everyone else at www.weber.edu/evtraining
ABOUT US
Weber State University (WSU) Davis Campus - Automotive Technology Department - Advanced Vehicles Lab. A technical description and operational demonstration of the Tesla 16V Li-Ion battery system.
We teach current vehicle technologies to our automotive students at Weber State University and online. For more information, visit: www.weber.edu/automotive
This video was created and edited by Professor John D. Kelly at WSU. For a full biography, see www.weber.edu/automotive/J_Kel...
Visit my other youtube channel / vibratesoftware to see the amazing NVH app for vibration diagnosis!
ADDITIONAL TRAINING FOR YOU
Join us for hybrid and electric vehicle training with two online courses and then a 5-day on-campus boot camp with Professor John D. Kelly. See www.weber.edu/evtraining
DONATE TO OUR DEPARTMENT
Please consider a donation to the Department of Automotive Technology at Weber State University here: advancement.weber.edu/Automotive
Hi ,I just wanted to take a moment to let you know how impressed I am with your teaching skills in the area of EV vehicles. Your lessons are always engaging and informative, and you have a real talent for breaking down complex concepts into easily understandable terms. Your passion for the subject really shines through in your teaching, and I feel so lucky to have you as my teacher. Thank you for everything you do! Best regards, Reza
Thank you very much Reza!
yeah man. im hooked and this is my first video ive every watched from him
I recently took Prof. Kelly's Hybrid/EV hands on bootcamp. It was one of the greatest learning experiences I have ever had! I would recommend it and I would do it again in a heartbeat!
@@TheDisgruntledMechanic Thank you Mike! It was great to have you in class.
He’s back!! Yay!
Thank you!
WeberAuto • We appreciate you very much, professor Weber!👍👍✌️
@@masbestiaquetu I have muscular dystrophy.
@@masbestiaquetu if you feel ignorant right now, it’s because you are
How powerful is the DC DC converter that charges up the 16V battery? What power can you pull from it? How can you take substational 12-16V power out of the car?
Great to see Dr Kelly back on CZcams! All the best from Australia sir.
Many thanks!
@@WeberAuto Ditto from Australia, love your presentation style, watch every video all the way thru !
Yes the "reconnect LV battery" button in Service mode does the same thing as the toolbox 3 procedure.
Good to know. Thank you
You keep wearing a great gentle smile while explaining the deep technology things. That attracts your student's attention and helps to understand the topic quickly. Keep it up professor.
So nice of you
No one explains EV systems like the doc. Weber must be the best training centre in the US.
Thank you very much!
The amount of research and great work that goes into these videos is simply outstanding.
THANK YOU!
Thank you very much!
There is nobody better with EV technical information than the GREAT Professor Kelly! No other person would be able to notice an incorrect voltage label than John! 🔧👑
LOL, Thanks Dave!
Hello professor,
I want to tank you very much for what are doing, continue education very detailed explanations about those amazing vehicles and technology associated with them.
I've been watching you for a very long time and the informations you provide are extremely valuable. Watching your content convince me to buy a brand new Tesla Model X recently and you gave me the confidence that this vehicle is far more superior compared with any other EV's currently available. Even though Tesla is not to be perfect technology, they are working hard on getting there. Thank you for that. I hope you stay healthy and well and continue doing what you're doing. We need you and I hope there is way of supporting your channel and your work.
You should be nominated for an Oscar in education when it comes to cars and EV's.
Great to see you again Dr. Kelly. I am very impressed with your mechanical and electrical expertise as it relates to these vehicles. Looking forward to see more of your videos in this channel.
Thank you kindly!
Wow I can’t believe this is the best informational video I have ever seen on youtube. Internet should be full of this stuff! Thank you sir!
Thank you Professor Kelly, great to see you again. And thanks to your assistant as well. Cheers from Comox Valley.
My pleasure! I will.
Highly appreciated from Germany, too. As an Ampera-e/Chevy Bolt driver I'm watching every video since your deep dive in Ampi's electric engine. Learned a lot about all the functions of parts in automobiles
Great to hear!
It's been a while and glad to see you back. As always, I love this channel and just learned a lot about my model Y LV battery. I didn't even know it was 16V as opposed to 12V. Thanks for the information.
Thank you. I am glad it was helpful
By the way, it's not 16V as opposed to 12 V: it is 14.4 V (nominal for 4S lithium-ion) as opposed to 12 V (nominal for 6S lead-acid), or 16 V (float voltage for 4S lithium-ion) as opposed to 14 V (float voltage for 6S lead-acid).
@@brianb-p6586 you are correct sir!
Professor John D. Kelly, Thank you very much for wonderful explanation of the Tesla 16V Li-Ion battery. MOSFET brought back my Grad school memories (I have Masters in Applied Electronics). My 2023 Model 3 Tesla had 0% battery when I returned back from July 4th vacation. The car is brand new with 5900 miles on it. Weather was so hot ( I am in Washington DC area) the automatic cabin temperature control kept running and drained the battery. Your video helped to understand the Li-ion battery and now the car is charged from 0% to 70%.
I was been missing this videos.
Thank you
Glad to see you back professor, and congratulations for the video graphical information that pop-up on sometimes, they are very helpful.
Much appreciated!
not just that you make awesome videos, you are an inspiration to me! and even though i dont want to mention it i just feel like i have to, being in a wheel chair i guess is really hard and fact that you managed not only to overcome it but to be such a guru! rock on my man! amazing content!
I'm just addicted to these. I'm not likely to work on my Tesla - but dang I love watching you explain all of this. Thank you to WSUD and to the Professor.
Thank you very much
Terrific video and clear, logical presentation with excellent graphics. Thank you from Virginia.
Hello Dr. Kelly,
Thank you for another fantastic and informative video. I am still learning about BEV's and the "jump start" had be very confused until I watched the full video.
Watching more BEV/Tesla content
P-Chi
You are so welcome!
That is very useful information about the 16V battery as well as the things to watch out for!
Glad it was helpful!
You are a very good at teaching others! So happy to have you in my youtube world. I am a EE and love your videos! I can not say enough! Keep the ball rolling!
Incredible detailed knowledge that is unlikely to be found anywhere else..Thank You .. John for this 1st class lesson as always !
Thank you!
Exceptional video. Thank you for taking the time to make it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Super information, Prof Kelly, as always! We are all a step closer to understanding this new technology!
Thank you very much!
There are no such advanced courses here and everything is still very unknown, thank you
What a gem of a video! I'll be watching a couple of these videos a day! Nice job on presenting this valuable information, thank you!
Finally! I’ve been waiting patiently for this latest video. So glad you are well and still educating us all! 🎉❤
More to come! Thanks for watching
Thank you for your awesome teaching style and incredibly clear videos! Please more Telsa repair videos!
Thanks, will do!
Thank you for this opportunity to learn more about TESLA technologies! 👍
thanks for all the knowledge you are
I know what I'll be watching tonight! Great to see you professor. 👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you so much!
Always enjoy watching your videos sir. Thank you again for the information overload.
My pleasure
Tnx proff for all your effort to introduce us Ev and hybrid
Love the videos you make! I also use the back shock tower bolt for ground as well. Keep up the great work!
Thank You Dr Kellly for your passion and skills for the subject , you make my day, wishing you a pleasent time and greeting from Sweden,
You are so welcome!
Interesting video, thanks for teaching us so much about these cars!
Thanks for all your EV videos Professor Kelly. ⚡⚡
The same battery protection functions that you describe in this video are built into some - possibly many - small lithium battery packs for cordless tools, test equipment etc. They have a MOSFET with a controller that looks at many of the same variables to protect the batteries. Interesting stuff, and very thoroughly presented!
Many have two. One for charge, one for discharge. Many people incorrectly assume the "charger" is the thing with all the brains, but they almost never are. (the most advance one I've ever seen is a 4 bank gang charger for craftsman packs. it only charges on pack at a time, so it has a very tiny analog logic "brain".)
Thank you, good point
Yes, small lithium-ion batteries normally have an onboard BMS, including those in power tools.
What you mention some of these protections are in the cordless tools itself but NOT in the battery. So be careful to not use the battery for something else which may destroy it because of NO protection with these usecases.
Always happy to see a new video
Thank you
Good morning Dr Kelly, thank you very much for your explanetion. I'm Italian and a Tesla owner (MOD Y RWD), you explain in very simple way, thank you.
Max
Glad it was helpful!
Best techinical content around. Waiting for them to put together a EV only workshop (no hybrids).
A great video as always! Thanks for the deep dive into the Tesla 16v battery. Many thanks.
Thanks for watching!
As usual another great automotive video from the prof. As a slight side comment there will likely be two sets of FETs in the BMS since a typical FET has a body diode in its structure which means the FET can only block current in one direction. Opposing FETs are needed to block current in both directions. As a result the BMS can typically block charge, discharge, or both. It wouldn't surprise me if the BMS is acting on the negative side of the battery.
Great information, thanks for watching
Great video, as always. Looking forward to see more of these great videos!
Subbed and thank you, learned something new.
Wow! That was fantastic! Nobody does videos like this! Thanks!!
Glad you liked it!
Such a great video! Thank you for the explanation!
This video is so valuable. Thank you!
Thank God you back
Thank you very much!
So pleased to watch this broadcast and full of interesting information as usual from WeberAuto.
Thank you!
While charging at a level 2 ChargePoint charger, another Tesla owner was having a problem with his LV 16 volt battery. The Tesla service tech was guiding him over the phone. I keep a small jump start battery in my trunk to help ICE drivers jump start their cars. It’s also a handy USB charger. We used it to open the frunk of his car, so he could do the second procedure you described.
It's about time. Seemed so archaic to put a lead battery in something like that. Good explanations
Thank you.
The most common form of Mosfet power switching is negative side. So the positive is connected to the terminal and the negative is switched on or off by the Mosfet. They typically have a very high resistance off so that's why not very much voltage can leak through. I can't say for certain that they're doing this there is also positive side switching, but not used as often.
Thanks for the information
MOS is open on positive side,(from memory) you can still measure the voltage of the battery with the MOS open if you use a meter , since there is a capacitor inside the battery, you'll measure the voltage stored in the cap. Briefly
You can also measure between the LIN and ECPA pins and get the voltage.
If the voltage is 10.5v or more, the vehicle can recovery the battery, if it's lower, it'll need charging using a an off board charger
Great info. thanks!
I now have 3 (Dead) 16V batteries.
No or very low V from positive to lin. I open two of them and tried charging them at the cell connection with no luck. I used a computer charger 14V 2 amp. Any advise?
I disagree. It makes zero sense to use a P-FET because of the losses.
@@patricksughrue1313 yout computer (charger) is not a charger. It's a power supply. Since it's only 14V it will not be able to charge the battery to 15.5-16V.
@@patricksughrue1313...I'd try charging the cells individually with 4v
Good to see you again sir!!! Stay well!!!
Thank you kindly
Great video,I wasn’t even looking for info on EV’s but your teaching style is compelling, had to watch it.
Glad you liked it!
Thank you for this video ☺️
You’re welcome 😊
I love the depth and detail. Working on mostly German cars for 20 years, this LV system is unlike anything I have ever seen. The F80 M3/M4 Li-Ion LV system is the closest but still ICE architecture
Thank you. I agree; unlike anything I have ever seen too.
@@WeberAutoAlso, thank you for explaining the open and re-closing procedures so thoroughly. There were piles of replacement lead-acid batteries (and empty boxes) at my service center. The older system must be very failure-prone
It's not just BMW 12v lithium but also the 48v mild hybrid battery pack too I'll like to see that analysis
Alot of European manufacturers have been using 48 v Batterie for years already
@@carholic-sz3qv Not for 12 V loads though, only for high current loads like electric A/C. Using 48 V for everything requires changing every solenoid, motor, relay, light bulb, and control module in the car. Big PITA and costly for to switch. However, after doing the work and investment, the wiring harness and other components will be lighter and less expansive, using a lot less copper.
Again a very good explanation. Thanks and congratulations
Good to see you back Prof 👍
Thank you kindly
I love your education videos, it is crystal clear and you focus on bringing the important information to the audience. Regards from Hannover/Germany. Danke.
I appreciate that!
Thanks for your great videos, sir!
Thank you very much Fred!
Thanks Professor Kelly. I was waiting for new videos. Congratulations
i am so glad you take the time to give us this information. makes me so proud that i am 66 years old and drive a 1994 Ram 2500 4WD gas burner and plan on it being the last vehicle i ever own don't need special tools or have to use the special gloves that i have to be safe. thanks
Thanks for your feedback
At 6:55 , Just to bring new verified informations: These are laser welded prismatic cells made by CATL and are not pouch cells. These are capable of an insane 10c recharge and 50c discharge (345A for 10 sec) but probably limited to lower value by the BMS. Cell model number is probably: HY-3769c from CATL
Thank you for the clarification.
Yeah, it should jump charge another vehicle no problem :P Not really that different from some jumppacks..
@@rkan2 problem is 4s of NMC cells is way higher volt than conventionnal 12V lead acid. Higher than 15 or 16V might damage the car on 12V battery. OR.. by the voltage difference, the current that goes from the Tsla battery to the 12V battery will be very high and not have any current limiting control except protections cut off from the BMS.
@@Doctorbasss Most 12V systems should be fine at 15-16V when the 12V spec is up to 14,2V charging voltage. There is probably at least 10% margin upwards on most vehicles on the voltage. After that you might start doing damage.
John are you going to disassemble that battery in another video?
I have been thinking about that. I might
@@WeberAuto I'd like to see the inside of the battery. I'd also like to see what sort of communication protocol the LIN uses.
Ingineerix did it on his channel if you can't wait.... czcams.com/video/fJH1r1s8B6Y/video.html
Great content as always! Much respect.
Your explanation of how the Tesla battery works also described the normal actions performed by any BMS designed to work with 4 LiIon batteries connected in series.
Besides all the features you mentioned, most BMS boards also have an automatic battery balancing function that works whenever the battery is charging.
They also have BMS boards that work the same way with the lower voltage, longer life, LiFePO4 batteries. In that case they are equivalent to the voltages obtained by a conventional lead acid car battery, but have 3000 to 4000 full charge/discharge cycles before they drop to 80% capacity...
Very informative video! If the Tesla vehicle in question does indeed have a 16V Li-Ion battery how does one open the Frunk to access the battery? Can you still supply 12V to the connectors located in the front bumper to open it? Thanks again for supplying a great video!
Yes, that will work
Very helpful and clear, I have been using this almost same type of battery for years and am very familiar with the cells voltage, capacity and charge and discharge rate. I fly model airplanes.
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent observation @4:35 with wrong battery voltage labeling ! Thank You !
Thanks for watching
Lots of others have already said it, but Professor John Kelly's through research and clear presentation style make complex technology easy to understand. I really appreciate his videos here at WeberAuto.
Thank you very much George!
Extremely happy of having you back sir 🙏🙏🙏
So nice of you!
Great video again! I think they are great for reuse in other cars/motorbikes because of their lightweight and their self protection.
You might wreck some stuff not being able to run above 15v though.
I think at 400A discharge limit, it can crank quite a lot of small petrol engines, even though it will seriously decrease its lifespan.
Do you know if the negative is always connected to the battery casing? That might give a clue over which one the mosfet opens
Good point on the lifespan. I do not know if the negative is connected to the battery casing. I suspect it is not. I will check. Thanks for watching!
@@WeberAuto I opened a VW 48v mild hybrid battery, and the battery negative was just connected to the battery casing. The contractor was on the positive side. So 12v and 48v have common ground, and only positive switched. But of course, that is a different system.
@@WeberAuto The vehicle has a negative ground for the low voltage system. That means that either the battery negative is connected to the case (either internally or via an external connection), or the case is floating. A floating case for an electrical component seems unlikely to me.
Good and informative video again Professor! I did not know 16V low voltage battery is used on Teslas. Thank you for informing us. Keep the videos coming!
Thanks for watching!
Who’s here because their having aftermarket stereo issues? Your a great researcher and teacher! 👏
Your videos are so well done, thank you. I am considering taking your course as I live down the street from the university!
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks for the video. Does have any thermal protection ? i think, It should, considering that in hot summer, and charging conditions the LI-IO, can get pretty hot. BMS inside the LI-IO might monitor the temperature and command the MOSFET as well. Not sure.
Yes it does, 65 degrees C
Dear Prof. Kelly and the whole team:
I'm aways happy, when I got a notification, that you have uploaded a new video, because I KNOW, there will be another superb content for the starving brain. 🙂 BUT I couldn't stand watching your high quality videos for free all the time, so I donated 100 USD. 😉
You do got the juice, Prof. Kelly, to jumpstart anybody with your energy and skills!
Greetings from Germany - SkyPower Wind Energy - CEO
PS: If you add a PayPal link in the video description, this would make the donation much faster and easier.
PS2: Would a teardown of this 16 v battery be possible? I can't imagine what cells Tesla is using for those extreme high C ratings way over 50 (BMS cut off) . 🤔
The Ingineerix CZcams channel has a 2 part video from over 1 year ago, called Tesla Plaid - 12 volt Lithium Battery where he tears down this low voltage battery pack and goes into detailed explanation on each of the components inside.
Thank you for your donation Ste Da, I appreciate your kindness.
@@KCautodoctor Thanks a lot for the info! I must have missed that. Those CATL cells are really rated for 50 C peak, stated in the data sheet shown in that video. Amazing!
@@WeberAuto You're welcome! 🤝
This is an awesome video, great details , and especially useful to understand better what happens behind those owner's manual instructions. Great to especially know the self-protection features to hopefully never have to replace the LV battery again! (I'm stuck with replacing my lead-acid every ~3-4years..)
Hope many tow truck companies get more familiar with Tesla and other EV low-voltage jumpstart procedures, especially as more rental car companies provide them and folks are not as familiar as real owners, and might run the HV battery down to 0 and need a tow... then they get very confused when by the time they arrive at the supercharger, they still can't charge the HV battery, as often the LV 12/16v batt has run down. Just a quick jumpstart by the tow truck as you demonstrated, can get them going again!!
Thank you
Great information, and great teaching structure! You've got a subscriber! Looking forward to more!
I love these videos
Thank you!
Nice sir 😁
Thank you!
great info - thanks for posting
I don't even own a Tesla just watched the video out of interest, but have to say It is very handy information to have should I come across a Tesla owner with LV battery issues.
The video is explained very well
Interesting as usuall. There will be also a new jump in voltage from 16 to 48V on some model like the cybertruck which is in my opining excellent. this was anounced in the investors day recently from TESLA. This will also be compatible to the popular 48V DC supply on many "powerwall" or off the grid systems for home in case of emergency etc... even phone lines work on 48Vdc... 48V win! . Also The 99Wh on the label of the 16V battery is I guess limited to 99Wh rating to make easy the shipment of these as they dont enter to the "over 99Wh" CLASS 9 Hazardous goods transportation regulations.
Thank you. Great point about the shipping.
European manufacturers already have 48v systems in many of their cars too! I'll like to see a teardown and analysis of that thanks!
Isn't 48v pretty dangerous? 4 times the Standard voltage
@@meki___6881 No, 60V DC and above is considered dangerous according to the NHTSA FMVSS 305.
@@WeberAuto didnt know that ty very much
Hey Kelly, welcome back!
Kind of surprised they "only" went for 16 volts- 24 volts would have had further improvements in efficiency but would share parts with milspec and semis, so I'm wondering why.
Also of note- I've seen some owners find that the Teslas really hammer their 12v lead acids, or at least used to in the old S's. Mine was replaced recently, so I guess i'm gonna see.
16V was probably chosen because it is sufficiently compatible with 12V... which upper range is just 1-2V lower than 16V.
The whole purpose of moving to a 16V Li-Ion battery is to improve the reliability of the low voltage system. This battery and a late 2019 change in the power conversion system with a "Standby Power Supply," will keep the low voltage battery maintained with the contactors off.
They will be moving to 48V systems shortly with all modules of their own design according to their latest open house day. Refer to a Munro interview on Autoline this week.
@@WeberAuto With the contactors off!? How do they manage that?
@@oznerol256 Through a special DC-DC converter connected directly to two sections of the HV battery. I hope to show it in a future video.
Great content. I was waiting for more information on the 16V battery. Thx for sharing
Glad it was helpful!
Sir, you are a unique person.
Sincere love and respect from Turkey.
So nice of you
Great video as always. You have a very nice way of explaining things.
I wonder why Tesla didn't go along the LFP route for the low voltage system? I guess there must be reason!
I could be wrong, but I read that LFP voltages do not change very much as the state of charge decreases. That makes it difficult to determine state of charge and state of health.
@@WeberAuto That's true, LFT have a very particular SOC curve which make the BMS algorithm to work harder on both end to determine the SOC, however, a 4s LFP cells is EXACTLY the same voltage range LVC and HVC as a lead acid which is also excellent and also the discharge curve as also very flat on both... it is like that 4s LFP and 6s Lead acis have been made to coexist together...
@@WeberAuto that certainly makes sense and one of the reasons Tesla recommend 100% charging on their LFP cars.
I run LFP batteries for my 4WD fridge etc and they certainly run a very flat curve from about 95% down to 20% or so.
I assume the 85% charging limit is Tesla's way of extending the life of the cells.
LFP unable to handle large current discharge something like 10c
@wenhaowong5549 I guess especially in a 4S1P setup.
So Tesla brings a 16 volt system into a 12 volt world and does not tell anybody or even label the power receptacles correctly. I foresee no possibility of anything going wrong with this at any time under any circumstances.
I find this really puzzling as well. And not being able to jump start another vehicle from it. It seems like an odd stopgap between 12v and 48v.
Thanks for your feedback! The information is on the owner’s manual, but how many people
read that?
Great video, super informative. Hope you do more of these on Teslas!
More to come!
Thank you so much for sharing your information, I do have Tesla model y good to know 👍👍
What a great video, I learned so much, and I am very grateful
Thank you so much from Japan.
So good to see you back!
Thank you very much!
Very Clear and helpful as usual! As a mechanic teacher myself you are my better technical source here in France, as we are very late about EV vehicles in our student cursus! Here there is so less sources of technical information you are very helpful, thank you for all your videos.
About this small Lion battery, I notice that this component seems to be replaced very often nowadays, Are there technical issues known? Or this battery is often replace because an improper use of the vehicle?
Awesome. A few years back, I watched you breakdown a Prius hybird system. I had a Prius and now a Tesla. Just coincidence, I came across your video on the model Y.