Lecture - Fred Sanders (The Triune God of the Bible: Seeing the Trinity in Scripture)
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Lecture by Fred Sanders - October 20, 2018
"The Triune God of the Bible: Seeing the Trinity in Scripture"
The doctrine of the Trinity is a classic, ancient, and central piece of Christian theology. When the church fathers and councils honed this doctrine, they did so in the firm conviction that it was biblical. They believed that God had revealed himself as the Trinity in Scripture. In this lecture, Fred Sanders presents the biblical case for affirming that the one God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, showing the lines of biblical reasoning that developed into the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. Often the biblical evidence for Trinitarianism is presented bit by bit, from one verse to another. This lecture instead emphasizes the big picture, especially the way the Old and New Testaments work together to bring out the doctrine.
Lecture by Fred Sanders
Professor of Systemic Theology
Biola University, La Mirada, CA
It is part of the Lanier Library Lecture Series. A series devoted to bringing world class lectures to benefit the community of all those who might be interested.
I am indebted to the generosity of the library to allow me to share these videos of theirs. Please support them by visiting their website for more information and resources:
www.laniertheologicallibrary.org/
Bio info:
Fred Sanders is a systematic theologian interested in the entire range of Christian doctrine, but with a special focus on the doctrine of the Trinity. He is a Professor of Theology in the Torrey Honors Institute at Biola (Biblical Institute of Los Angeles) University, where he has taught since 1999. He earned his B.A. degree at Murray State University in 1990 and his M.Div. degree at Asbury Theological Seminary in 1995. He completed his Ph.D. in Systematic Theology at Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California, in 2001.
He is the author of many articles and several books, including Dr. Doctrine’s Christian Comix (1999), The Image of the Immanent Trinity: Rahner’s Rule and the Theological Interpretation of Scripture (2005), Jesus in Trinitarian Perspective: An Introductory Christology (2007), The Deep Things of God: How the Trinity Changes Everything (2010), John Wesley on the Christian Life: The Heart Renewed in Love (2013), How God Used R. A. Torrey: A Short Biography as Told Through His Sermons (2015), The Triune God (2016), Theology in Seven Sentences: A Small Introduction to a Vast Topic (forthcoming), and Blessed Trinity: An Approach to the Doctrine of God and Salvation (forthcoming). In addition, he has coedited 7 volumes, the most recent being Retrieving Eternal Generation (2017), with Scott Swain. He also serves as contributing editor for Cultural Encounters: A Journal for the Theology of Culture and Journal of Spiritual Formation and Soul Care
.
Fred is a member of Grace Evangelical Free Church of La Mirada, and lives in La Mirada with his wife Susan and their two children.
Shortest response: Listen to Jesus: ´ Do not be anxious, but trust in God and in me.´ (John 14:1) (How many persons are that?)
2 people Jesus sits on the right hand side of God. Therefore Jesus is not God.
came here from one of the audiobooks he participated to voice.
I hope you find other things to interest you on my Channel. Here is an interview of Fred done in the Biblical Literacy class that weekend czcams.com/video/8vWWiBx6W0M/video.html Another video Fred participated in was a Scholars Panel discussion on the Holy Spirit czcams.com/video/_l8lOgr21A0/video.html
Thanks for sharing! Good Christological typology helps us to understand the Trinity relation between Father and Son, albeit incompletely. The Son is the radiance of God's glory while God is the Sun of righteousness. There is distinction between radiance and sun but there cannot be a division. You either have three persons of the Godhead or three gods. No prizes for guessing which is more sound!
If the nature of the Father is spirit and the father is holy, how is it so hard to deduce that the Father is the Holy Spirit? One person, and Jesus is the express image of that one person
The HOLY SPIRIT IS THE FATHER YAHWEH'S SPIRIT!!!🕊️🌝✨JUST LIKE YOUR SPIRIT IS IN YOU!!!🌝🕊️✨
A very important point is made in Matthew 28, which he passed over.
In the 18th verse it says "All authority is given to me." GIVEN by ????
Exactly.
So does Dr. Sanders refute the filioque clause with this double procession from the Father?
I confess... before seeing this video I always thought of "God" in the Old Testament as being the Father. Then we see a few glimpses of Son and Spirit in the OT, but for the most part they are hiding. Sanders teaches that the Trinity is by definition "the Father sending the Son and Spirit". It dawned on me when he said that he reserved for showing the Father last because you can't have a clear representation of the Father until you have the Son... and prior to that you just see "God". Sooo... would it be fair to say that when we see "God" in the garden, in His manifestations on Sinai.
That idea certainly supports a reading John 12:41 where the author is commenting on Isaiah 6 and says "Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him." I've read this in the past and thought, "Hmmm, although it seems like the Father in Isaiah 6, John is actually telling us this is Jesus." But no, John 12 is actually clarify that Isaiah 6 is "God" in His triunity. Am I on the right track?
you might benefit from seeing a multiday lecture given by David Capes in 2014 he also has since written a inexpensive book on the same issue. I have the playlist here for you.
czcams.com/video/zJHXMNn3PKI/video.html
This is awful...painful use of words to try and support a total joke of a doctrine.
What program is Sanders using to project? Is it prezi?
not sure
If you want to see the trinity in the Bible, I'm sure you could do it. If you don't want to see it, I'm sure you will learn a lot about God and his Son, and the Holy Spirit, also, and not see it. People tend to see whatever they want to.
If Jesus and God the Father are one, therefore equal, why does Jesus say that God is greater than Him. John 20:17
If I say president Barack Obama (example) is greater than i am, it is true in terms of the office but in being he is a human exactly like me and he is not greater than me in being .Jesus is God in being, but when He came to this world, He took a human flesh making Himself a servant. Thats why when He was ask when is the last day, he doesn't know because Jesus has 2 beings : human & God at the same time and human doesn't have the right to know when is the last day and He limit himself in term of His God being. I hope you understand me cause I'm an Indonesian. God bless.
…Philippians 2:6- 8 Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death-even death on a cross. Jesus, the one who empty himself and became a servant, said... the Father is greater than me...
…
Since Mr Sanders will admit that 'the word trinity' & the creed 'One Father, Son & Holy ghost' & 'these three are one' are found nowhere in any text in the NT, he like other advocates rely on retrospective bible references since nothing was said or written about the concept of the trinity until at least 280AD. Every greeting of Paul fails to mention the 'trinity' only 'blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus christ' e.t.c. Just check every Pauline letter! No trinity! Even John never mentions it!
The word Trinity is not used but this does not mean what you might think. if you want to learn try this playlist of lectures. if you don't that is fine your salvation may not depend upon you agreeing. czcams.com/play/PLMXYWl2o35j8wEbBDLzEB6brfKnnpR8ZP.html
🌅Let me share a testimony of the vision of God I saw that reveals a Light on the Wisdom of God in a mystery concerning God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. 📖 1 Corinthians 2:7 | Acts 2:17 | Numbers 12:6
📜 Within few days after I received the justification of God and the New Birth, the LORD gave me a vision of Himself. While praying in the middle of the morning in that certain day, suddenly I was caught in a trance, and being in the spirit, I saw myself in Heaven kneeling before God. A typical picture of a man kneeling on his knees with his hands on his breast and bowing down his head. Above in front of me were God the Father and the Lord Jesus who was on His right hand side. There was One at the left of the Father, but I cannot tell you at this momemt. Let it be for an appointed time. All three of them were sitting on their pure white Thrones side by side. They were pure white all together and have shining pure white diamond crowns on their heads. They were in their "shekinah glory" of excellent and majestic purity. Their faces were as the sun shining on its might at noontime of a perfect day, that what I could see only on their faces were a line of their chins. But, it was so obvious that as they looked at me, they were smiling in a great delight. They were in dazzling pure white clothing from neck down to their feet. Then I saw just below them and in between us, the Holy Spirit in the shape of a dove formed out of a shining pure white light spreading its wings just above me. Rays of white light emanates from Him towards me and all around Him. I am also in pure white all the way from head to feet and in pure white clothing. The whole scenario was in pure white that shines. There was a pure white angel who was steadily flying horizontally, rejoicing and blowing a trumpet on the middle right side.
📜 Then God the Father, the One on the left of the Father, and the Lord Jesus raised their right hands one by one towards me and said something, which I cannot tell you at this time.
📜 The place, the Heaven, was so glorious, white and full of peace and harmony. I could feel happiness and joy everywhere. I did not see a tint or spot of any color in the whole scenario of shining pure white.
🕊 I hope this testimony may give light of understanding concerning our God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit being God as "One", but of "separate" persons.
📖 You may refer to the following scriptures that support this revelation and testimony, though there are a lot more in the Bible:
💎 The Lord Jesus Christ "Sitting" on the "Right Hand" of God His Father
📖 Colossians 3:1 | Hebrews 1:1-4, 13 | Hebrews 10:12 | Hebrews 12:2 | Matthew 26:63-64 | Ephesians 1:20 | Hebrews 8:1 | Hebrews 10:10-12 Hebrews 12:2
💎 The LORD God as the "Father" of the Lord Jesus Christ
📖 Ephesians 1:3, 17 | Ephesians 3:14 | Hebrews 1:5, 8 | Hebrews 5:5, 8 | Colossians 1:3
💎 The Lord Jesus Christ "Calling" the "LORD God" His "Father"
📖 Matthew 11:25-27 | Matthew 16:16-17, 27 | Matthew 18:19, 35 | Matthew 24:36 | Matthew 26:29, 39, 42
💎 The LORD God "Calling" the Lord Jesus Christ "His Son"
📖 Matthew 3:17, 17:5 | Hebrews 1:5
💎 The Lord Jesus Christ as the "Son of God"
📖 Matthew 26:63-64 | Matthew 27:54 | Colossians 1:12-19 | Hebrews 1:8 | Hebrews 4:14 | Hebrews 5:5, 8
💎 God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ Being "Two Distinct Persons"
📖 Ephesians 6:23 | Philippians 1:2 | Philippians 2:11 | Colossians 1:2 | 1 Thessalonians 1:1-3 | 1 Thessalonians 3:11 | 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 | 2 Thessalonians 2:16 | 1 Timothy 1:1-2 | 1 Timothy 5:21 | 1 Timothy 6:13 | 2 Timothy 1:2 | 2 Timothy 4:1 | Titus 1:4 | Titus 2:13 | Philemon 1:3
💎 The Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God being a "Separate Person of God"
📖 Matthew 3:16-17 | Mark 1:10-12 | John 1:32 | Luke 1:35 | John 14:26, 15:26 | Acts 2:4 | 1 John 5:7 | Genesis 1:2
☝To God be the Glory and Honor alone. May the Blessings, Graces and Peace of the LORD our God be to all who read this testimony. In the Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen. 🙏📖👑🏅🎺✨🕊
the trinity is true, but God said not to make pagan images, especially of Jesus......Willie
I have read the NT in many translations and mostly any text that trinitarians focus on is either a questionable translation ( by a trinitarian scholar!) or an 'interpolation' ( added centuries after the original) Ie; 1 John 5:7. 1 Tim 3:16 'He was made manifest' greek 'Ho' changed by later scribe with two dots and a line to read 'theos'. God. ( Von- Tishendorff. in 19th century) And so we could go on. So many times the trinity camp has been cheating truth seekers. Nowhere in God's word is the trinity!
The word Trinity is not used but this does not mean what you might think. if you want to learn try this playlist of lectures. if you don't that is fine your salvation may not depend upon you agreeing. czcams.com/play/PLMXYWl2o35j8wEbBDLzEB6brfKnnpR8ZP.html
I am very surprised that Ephesians 2:18 was used as a Trinity text. Sanders knows better than this. “For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.”
The context of this passage is directed to Jews and Gentiles. Both of these groups have access to the Father by having the same spirit which was revealed in Jesus Christ. The word “spirit” here is a common spirit of unity and character, and has nothing to do with a Holy Spirit person.
And they got their access without being trinitarians.
@@raybrensike42 Good point!
Jesus is a NON-OMNIPOTENT God: of course an omnipotent person doesn't NEED HELP and be led into the wilderness (see Jesus after being baptized) (see "the Son is not able to do anything of Himself..."). Jesus is God because HE HAD BEEN the almighty God in a very distant past. He then got rid of his omnipotence to become like a normal man. This means that at a time He is DIFFERENT from the almighty God since He is like a normal man now, but He is NOT DISTINCT from God either, since He had been that almighty God. The almighty God thus only dwells in a very distant past ("the world has not known you"). However - due to his omnipotence - from that past God is able to reach to us now with his words and actions. Since NOBODY is here to speak those words and to take those actions, we say that the presence of God here corresponds to the presence of a spirit. He is the Spirit of God aka Holy Spirit ("God is a spirit"). Only a RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD is available, GOD IS NOT. Only Jesus and the POWER of God (it's a thing) are here, they figuratively sit in heaven next to each other. No triune God exists.
Hello
Jesus is the Messiah
The Son of God
The Son of David
The Son of man
The man God has chosen to be his anointed king
The man God will judge the world through
Jesus has a God
There is no triune god in scripture
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
you might want to consider this set of Lectures by David Capes
czcams.com/video/zJHXMNn3PKI/video.html
come let us reason together says the LORD
50:50 Poor "defense" of the Trinity. You ought to have given the presentation going point by point without conflating man with God.
Jesus is God's Son, not God the Son. The trinity is a man made doctrine. The 1st Adam was a man, the 2nd Adam was a man.
A.D. 325, the Roman trinity was born.
Not really, the story the trinitarians are selling is not historically accurate.
You could argue for 381 or a few decades before that, but nobody in 325 believed in a triune God.
@@DanJan09 Ignorant on point
Biggest lie that Fred is telling is that the Ante-Nicene Fathers got their idea of the Trinity from the bible. That is hogwash! These Catholic Fathers got their doctrine from philosophy, mysticism, and a first century Jewish philosopher by the name of Philo.
Fred can point to the bible all he wants to, but the truth remains. The Trinity doctrine has some scripture to give it some validity, but its origin is not biblical.
When will Trinitarians tell the truth of the Catholic Trinity? They point to the bible alone to cover up its true history. It cannot be biblical and philosophical at the same time.
Let's stop deceiving poor Christians who trust their leaders.
Came across a website called www.theresurrectiondecree.com looks at the Resurrection and Trinity with reason and logic. If anyone's interested its worth a look, from Old and New Testaments.
John 1 does not teach Trinity. The passage needs to be read within the context of Scripture, not within the context of theological speculations. In John 14:26 “...the word [logos] which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.” Compare this to: Deut. 18:18-19 “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
The “logos” in John 1 is identified with the Father as his (the Father’s) message, as well as the Father himself. I suppose there is a technical name for this because it is the same with us. We are our words in a certain sense because we are held accountable for our words. If I lie under oath, are my words sent to jail for perjury, or am I personally sent to jail? My words are me, and not me, at the same time, but in different senses.
The Father’s words are his message and his commandments (“Your word have I hid in my heart...Your word is a lamp to my feet...etc.). They are God in a certain sense, but not in a full metaphysical sense, just as our words are not metaphysically ourselves. Jesus is his Father’s message, or commandments, materialized in flesh, as an example of what God would have us be if we were totally committed to embracing and obeying his message.
Jesus is not literally his Father’s words, for then the Father would be mute, yet he speaks at the baptism and the transfiguration. Jesus is a reflection of his Father’s words, as an image in a mirror, so in a certain sense he is the word of God, just as I can say my image in my mirror is me, even though it is not literally me.
God, the Father of Jesus, speaks creation into existence, and also gave his message, or instructions, to mankind. Jesus is exactly what that message is supposed to be, and he was obedient until the end. All who personally believe in this message become the sons of God (John 1:12).
So, we should not confuse God’s words commanding creation into existence with Jesus as also being God’s literal word. They are related to God, but in different ways. I think the author, John, assumed this was obvious. But some people don’t want it to be obvious, but prefer obfuscation and equivocation.
Furthermore, the Greek can properly be translated with the word as “that”, or “it”. You see this in the Tyndale and Geneva Bibles.
God is One. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ. Jesus was Son of God by His Father and Son of Man by virgin birth. God is not 3 but One. The trinity is a doctrine of men
Just as man and wife are one God is One. Created in His image Male and Female created He them. The Oneness of God is a Oneness of plurality not of singularity. NT writers indicate Jesus was worshiped at various instances. Revelation makes clear that worship is to be given God alone. The Lamb shares the Throne of God. The Name Jesus (Greek rendering) Is sometimes equated by Paul with passages of Scripture referring to YHWH. But the Son never takes the place of the Father. Paul also uses YHWH passages in relation to the Father. The Trinty is not a biblical word but it is based on a biblical conception of God. His Oneness is that of Plurality otherwise the Jewish Disciples including Paul could never have written what they did. Paul even writes the Shema including The Names of Jesus and God the Father. Those who think of God's oneness as singularity simply miss the biblical nuance. the doctrine of Trinity is biblical while the word is not.
@@fleetwd1 husband and wife becoming one speaks of offspring. Jesus was both God by the Spirit and Man by the flesh. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ Romans 8:9. The Lamb of God was given the right to be seated on the Throne as He and the Father are One by the Spirit John 17:21 and all authority was given to Him Matthew 28:18
@@youngsamuel1 our completeness is found not in ourselves nor our understanding but in him who is our righteousness. God knows your heart's desire to be pleasing to him. blessings to you.
TrinityExamined.com the same Hebrew word 'echad is used in Gen 2:24 and Deut 6:4 translated in English as "One". Gen 1:27 reveals the image of God that man is created into is both male and female. the oneness of marriage in Gen 2:24 is a reflection of the oneness of YHWH referred to in Duet. 6:4.
Also in 1 Cor 8:5-6 Paul contrasts the believing community who recognize but "one God" with those who live in idolatry serving multiple gods. His understanding of the shema recorded here includes both Father and Son a Divine plurality. Further in the undisputed letters written by Paul there are 13 YHWH texts roughly half of those refer to God the rest refer to Christ. By "YHWH text" I mean Paul's quotation or illusion to an OT text that contains the divine name.
YHWH text quoted with God as referent
Rom. 4:7-8 (Ps. 32:1-2)
Rom. 9:27,29 (Isa. 28:22; 1:9)
Rom. 11:34 (Isa. 40:13)
Rom. 15:9, 11 (Pss. 18:49, 117:1)
1 Cor. 3:20 (Ps. 94:11)
2 Cor. 6:17-18 (Isa. 52:11; 2 Sam. 7:14)
YHWH text quoted with Christ as referent
Rom. 10:13 (Joel 2:32)
Rom. 14:11 (Isa. 45:23)
1 Cor. 1:31 (Jer. 9:23-24)
1 Cor. 2:16 (Isa. 40:13)
1 Cor. 10:26 (ps. 24:1)
2 Cor. 10:17 (Jer. 9:23-24)
Allusions to YHWH texts with Christ as referent
2 Cor. 3:16 (Exod. 34:34)
Phil. 2:10-11 (Isa. 45:23)
1 Thess. 3:13 (Zech. 14:5)
if Paul, an Observant Jew, can include Christ in the divine name texts and list him with the Father in a restatement of the "Shema" found in 1 Cor 8:6 those who claim singleness of God based upon the Shema in Deut.6:4 need to rethink their position if they want to claim scripture as the basis for their position.
God is indeed ONE person, and is a "He" and is The Father, according to scripture. God SENT His Son.