Contradiction vs. Mystery: The Mystery of the Trinity with R.C. Sproul
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2019
- The doctrine of the Trinity is not without difficulty, but it is both biblical and logical. Try as we may to fully understand God’s triune nature, there are limits to what we can grasp with our minds. Does that make God’s nature beyond or against reason? Is our doctrine of the Trinity a contradiction? Dr. Sproul examines this as he teaches us the difference in this message entitled “Contradiction vs. Mystery.”
This is the 5th in a series of messages by Dr. Sproul on the Trinity. See other videos in the series: • The Mystery of the Tri...
Clarity is r.c. Sproul’s talent In explaining difficult doctrines.
Though he is living elsewhere supernaturally, his human teaching speaks loudly.
The church of Christ on earth miss you. But we shall see you in heaven in the presence of Jesus Christ our great God and saviour.
A Watchman Amen to that. He is definitely missed on this side of glory.
God is your creator and your judgement no middle ground there he gives you life and he takes your life
The number of know all theologians in every comment section is just 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
For now we know in part but then we will see face to face, clearly! We see through a glass darkly. We will know even as we are known. We will have to wait until the return of our Lord Jesus Christ to have perfect knowledge and we will find out we had some doctrines wrong.
Great man of God who rightly divide the word of God. The Church in India really needs you. Our Evangelical leaders are struggling to teach the doctrine & truth of Trinity to the believers. Many of our leaders are mocked in public debates with the Muslims as well as heretics. May our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ strengthen you.
He died in 2017.
That's because the Trinity is an abomination, a lie from Satan he used the Catholic Church to promulgate the lie and the Protestants didn't reform it.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
@@dwashington1333 pretty much nothing you just said is true. PURE and simple. Either you;
1) You don’t understand the doctrine.
Or
2) You do not understand or reject the BIBLICAL doctrine.
If you think that’s wrong listen to some debates on CZcams involving Michael Brown (now a Jesus believing Jew) and those who reject the Trinity. (James White has some good debates in that as well.) Else try *actually* listening with a *open* mind and heart to some of the various lectures on the topic by RC Sproul, William Lane Craig, or ex-Muslim Nabeel Qureshi and others who defend the doctrine.
@@brockgeorge777 I was a Trinitarian for 23 years I grew up believing that lie. You said, nothing I said was true, I was quoting scripture.
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
@@dwashington1333 go back and read. I said *pretty much* nothing you said.. But simply stating Scripture that calls condemns *false* doctrine only works *if* the doctrine is false. My (VERY NON CATHOLIC) study of the *whole* of Scripture has convinced me that the doctrine-at least in its CENTRAL CONCLUSIONS-is dead on *biblically* correct.
Please pardon the length of this, but I would kindly request you humor me and read it thoroughly as you are clearly earnest to know and proclaim God’s truth:
The full issue is far too involved to do justice in CZcams comments, but I would highly recommend you listen to some debates on CZcams involving Michael Brown and/or James White on the pro-Trinitarian side and various others on the other side. I believe you may find the stronger *Scriptural* evidence is decidedly in its favor.
Also, let me make a point. You’ll never convince me anyone in their *right* mind woke up one day and said’ “Hey, let’s create a mind challengingly complex doctrine like the Trinity!” Rather, they did so *despite* every manifestly *human likelihood* of proposing a monotheistic religion comprised of a single, uncomplicated solitary monad-just like you and me and EVERY other *finite* material being we know. But let’s be intellectually honest here for a second. What’s more likely? An infinite, immaterial (spiritual) Being would be *just* like us or that a *detailed* understanding of such a Being would more *likely* turn out to “blow your mind a bit” and be *manifestly* unique? I think to ask those question makes the answer-at least based on raw probabilities-self apparent.
Studied ambiguity: man's decision in co operation to achieve Christ's righteousness vs. Christ's sole sovereignty to impart his righteousness by imputation on whom He wills. Ty, RC Sproul.
Great teacher
This is goood
I love you Daddy!!! Dr. R.C Sproul
Sproul's God was an it, as he says, "one essence". The biblical God is one person, יהוה, and His human Messiah is Jesus of Nazareth. The Messiah Jesus of Nazareth was put to death, but raised from the dead by the one God of the Scriptures, and exalted to the One God's right hand. It's not confusing, and it's not a contradiction.
What was Jesus before HE became A Human Being?
@@P.H.888To claim that Jesus literally existed before he was a human being, is to deny that Jesus is a human person.
If he was a pre-existent person, than he is not a human person, or else you would have two Jesus persons.
So "deity of Christ" belief denies that Jesus was a human person. But the Bible says that the mediator between God and men is "a man", the man Christ Jesus.
"Diety of Christ" attempts to eliminate the one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.
What a giant lolcow you are, just like the ones on the KiwiFarms.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
@@billschlegel1 Jesus said "Before Abraham was 'I AM' "
The illogicalness and contradition of the 'trinity' has so often been 'justified by the sweeping statement "Oh its just a mystery! we cant expect to know everything about God...et.c." This is false reasoning! the word 'mystery' is from the Greek MYSTERON' which actually means that which IS revealed! ( not the opposite! )Thus Paul says at Rom 16:25,26 "...the revelation of the MYSTERY which was kept secret since the world began BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST". ( this word MYSTERON is used elsewhere in the NT in exactly the same way! Thus if the 'trinity' is true ,surely it would have been CLEARLY TAUGHT throughout the NT. Howevert NOT ONCE does either the word, or the creed inclusion "There are three persons in one God" occur anywhere in the NT
The concept of G-d being three persons is a rather simple concept and does not require an advanced degree in theology. Consider a unique human being name John. John is a individual who works at a factory. John is also married and has a child. Therefore, John, the individual being, is an employee to his employer, a husband to his wife, and a father to his child. Thus, it is the same with G-d. G-d is a unique singular being simultaneously coexisting as three persons…Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Modalism ! Simple enough for a heretical belief.
I love Ligonier, Sproul, and the rest of the big hitters
But can they PLEASE mute out the chalk sounds! I’d rather listen to a million people say the word moist then hear a second of chalk on the board!! It’s killing me! 😆
Aw, c'mon. I want them to *amplify* the chalk sounds. I want it to sound like someone is using a jackhammer on my roof.
Jesus names explicitly who the Holy Spirit is, there is no debate.
- Pentecost - Jesus receives His Father's Holy Spirit, and distributes it:
(Acts 1:4) … *_wait for the promise of the Father,_* …
(Acts 2:33)... *_having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this,_*_ which ye now see and hear._
(Acts 2:3) And *there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.*
- Jesus said He and His Father will come and live in those who love and obey Him - a third person does NOT live in the Believer:
(John 14:23) Jesus answered ..., *_If a man love me,_*_ he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, _*_and WE WILL come unto him, and make OUR abode with him._*
- Jesus used third person speech to refer to Himself all through Gospels. The Spirit of Christ lives in us, NOT a third spirit person.
(John 16:7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, *_I will send him unto you._*
(John 14:16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, ...
(John 14:17) Even *_the Spirit of truth;_* ... _for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you._
(John 14:18) … *_I WILL COME TO YOU._*
(Gal 4:6) _And because you are sons, God has sent out _*_the Spirit of his Son_*_ into our hearts, saying, Abba, Father._
The Spirit of Christ is the Comforter, the Advocate, the Spirit of Truth, the Counselor, the Helper. NO ONE comes to the Father by way of a third person, the Spirit of Christ is the ONLY way.
(John 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, *I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.*
The easiest way to defend the trinity is to compare it with what the Bible says about God. If the two agree 100%, then that should confirm that the trinity is based squarely on Scripture. But is that the case? Well, judge for yourself:
1a. THE BIBLE says the Father-a single person-is the “only true God.” (John 17:3).
1b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “every Person [of the trinity] BY HIMSELF [is] God.” That’s THREE GODS!
2a. THE BIBLE says that “for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6)
2b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “we worship one God IN TRINITY.”
3a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John 14:28)
3b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “In this trinity, NONE is greater…”
4a. THE BIBLE says Jesus is the Son of God. (John 20:31)
4b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “Jesus IS God,” which makes him a different God from the “one God in trinity."
5a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John 14:28)
5b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE say that “the whole three persons [of the trinity] are “co-equal.”
6a. THE BIBLE says the holy spirit is not God, but a possession of God and that he gives it to deserving ones. As 1 Thess. 4:8 says: “Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives HIS holy Spirit to you.”
6b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “the holy spirit IS God.” However, A Catholic Dictionary says: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” It adds: “The majority of New Testament texts reveal God’s spirit as someTHING, not someONE.”
7a. THE BIBLE says that the Father is the ONLY person that “the true worshipers” (Christians) should worship. (John 4:23)
7b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “The trinity in unity is to be worshiped.”
So, is the trinity doctrine a Biblical teaching? Answer: absolutely not.
Exactly. It's sad these trinity teachers and scholars are taking people away from the truth
@@AstariahJW Yes, it is sad. Clearly, the truth is not for everyone.
What about when Jesus says, “I and the father are one” and “before Abraham was, ‘I AM’.”? You have to take the whole counsel of God’s Word into account.
@@zpax2700 when reading bible you need to look at context and what jesus said to the Jews who charged him of making himself equal to God when he said the father and I are one
John 10:31 Once again the Jews picked up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’?*+ 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came-and yet the scripture cannot be nullified- 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
Notice jesus even called them gods cause its written that anyone can be a god who has power and authority over someone .god is a title . Scripture say satan is god of this system cause he has power to mislead people from truth. And when jesus said he and father is one means one purpose. One mindset and unity they have . Notice the prayer jesus said at John 17:11
I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one.
So early century Christians were one in knowledge. Purpose and mindset just as jesus and father are .
Also when jesus said before abraham I was . He was telling them he existed in heaven before his human life and that he was the messiah. John 6:38 for I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
@@zpax2700 The word "trinity" means, "a unity of three [persons]." At John 8:58, do you see three persons that are said to make up a single deity? If you do, will you please count them out to me?
Also, at John 10:30, do you see three persons that are said to make up one deity? If you see them, will you please count them out to me?
With the Trinity Christians claim that its a mystery and that we are not able to fully understand it, so how than did they create a doctrine describing it? when its not actually found within the bible itself. We can not explain that which we can not understand, no matter how long one thinks about it.
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
This man is teaching a man made doctrine despite the simple words of Jesus to serve himself as privileged keeper of the mysteries. The self appointed conduit of the mystery of God. The Pharisees were the warning for all of us that these corruptors will always be with us.
Luke 10:21
I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
Luke 18:16-17
16 “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.
17 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”
Why does he try so hard to get us to conceptualize a man made doctrine a child could never understand?
Mat 15:7-9
You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:
“‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
There will not be a more profound warning.
At least he's not an actual demon - unlike you !
Sorry, Jesus isn’t God, nor equal to God. He called our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17.
The Mystery of the Trinity is how did Trinitarians become so deceived?
*but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, THE SON OF GOD,* and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31.
*Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living GOD.* Matthew 16:16. And that by believing, you may have life, in his name. John 20:31.
Heretic. Obviously you weren't listening. Justification of Christ alone. Galatians 3 22 KJV.
Where is the deception?
@@rockycomet4587 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand! Matthew 11:15.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the
SON of God?
1 John 5:5.
NOT GOD OR A TRINITY, but as St john has said: but he that believeth that Jesus is the SON of God? 1 John 5:5.
And as Jesus has said: ETERNAL LIFE is believing His Father GOD is the only ONE TRUE GOD alone. John 17:3. Which is the FIRST commandment one MUST believe. Mark 12:29.
The Hebrew text of Deuteronomy 6:4 says: Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is ONE: (PERSON).
Hezekiah prayed before Yahweh, and said, "Yahweh, the God of Israel, who sit [above] the cherubim, YOU ARE THE GOD, EVEN YOU ALONE, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth. 2 Kings 19:15. World English Bible.
Job 23:13: BUT HE ALONE IS GOD, and who can oppose him? God does as he pleases. The HEBREW text actually says GOD IS :בְ֭אֶחָד ḇə-’e-ḥāḏ [UNIQUELY] ONE.
If the concept of the Trinity is in the Bible, why didn't R.C. just open up the Bible to teachings of Moses, Isaiah, Jesus, or an apostle that explains, "God is three persons in one essence"? Answer: Because such a description of God is never given in the Bible. Instead, R.C. just waxed on about how one has to say "Trinity" to pass the test. So, if you want to stay in this Roman-Byzantine period cult that has Egyptian and Greek origins, go ahead, say "god is a Trinity". There was not tri-personal Christian god until the late 4th century after Jesus.
But the God of the Bible is one, the Father (Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 45:5-6, John 17:3, Gal. 3:20, 1 Cor. 8:6, Eph. 4:4-6).
He just stated that the word "trinity" does not exist in the Bible. It is a name for a concept.
@@sayloltothetroll6806 If you are a Catholic, OK.
If you are a Protestant:
Do you see in the Bible where Jesus describes the concept of the Trinity?
Do you see in the Bible where the apostles describe the concept of the Trinity?
..the trinity is obviously a contradiction.......that is why no one can explain it and why it is so difficult to comprehend..
This guy is a lie and the Trinity is the lie
A master class in spin doctoring. The problem is if you believe any of this you have fallen into Satan’s trap.
“How the doctrine developed in terms of Church history in the early centuries of Christian reflection.”
If something is developed it means initially it wasn’t there or at the very least it was unknown. Therefore the apostles did not know of it. In Jesus himself did not know of it.
Talking about contradictions the Bible states that Jesus was born. We all know what that means - we celebrate it every Christmas - you claim he wasn’t because he was eternally begotten. You can’t have it both ways. The Trinity is the biggest con ever pulled on humanity.
The trinity is a false pagan doctrine, a terrible deception. In the Scriptures we ONLY find two divine beings, and not three, that's the God, the Father, and His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
Jesus said, I quote,
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)
"... ye believe in God, believe also in me." (John 14:1)
And Paul had this to say, I quote,
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (1 Corinthians 8:6)
With regards to the Holy Spirit, the Scriptures tell us that it is the 'Spirit of God' (Gen. 1:2; 41:38; Ex. 31:3; 35:31; Num. 24:2; 1 Sam. 10:10; 19:20, 23; 2 Chron. 24:20; Job 27:3; Ezek. 11:24; Mat. 3:16; 12:28; etc.) or the 'Spirit of the Lord God' (Isa. 21:1) and Spirit of Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19; 1 Pet. 1:11), and not a separate divine being from the Father and the Son, as it never refers to as the 'Lord' or 'God' the Holy Spirit.
In 1 John 2:22 I read, I quote,
"... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."
I know..I find it so hard to believe that the Spirit is a person. Do you believe Jesus was eternally pre existent?
@@joolspools777 No, I don't believe Jesus was eternally pre-existent. The Scripture says that God, the Father, 'only hath immortality' and 'hath life himself' which He, the Father, gave to His only begotten Son to have 'life in himself', which is immortality.
"
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." (1 Timothy 6:16)
"For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;" (John 5:26)
And, since He is the Son of God, (begotten of the Father ― or born of God ― sometime in eternity), He can't be of the same age as the Father. When and how He was begotten, or born of God, (not created), has not been revealed to us as that belongs to God and not to man. If, as per the trinity doctrine, He were co-eternal and co-equal with the Father, then He couldn't be called His Son.
For example in Hebrews 1:6 and 1 John 4:9 we read that God the Father 'bringeth in the firstbegotten', (Hebrews 1:6), or 'sent his only begotten Son' into the world. God, the Father, had to have a Son to send 'into the world', or else He couldn't have done that.
"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
" (Hebrews 1:6)
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." (1 John 4:9)
And in 1 John 2:22 we read I quote,
"... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."
So the Scriptures are clear that Jesus is the Son of God and God is His God and Father.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
" (Ephesians 1:3; also Revelation 3:12.)
(Also, please read Proverbs 8.)
@@rudolfberki8683 Thanks that's very interesting. If Jesus is the Son of God that makes him God as well don't you think..if the angels worship him and worship him. And he wasn't created.
@@joolspools777 Yes, the Son of God is God because His Father is God, but He isn't God, the Father, or else He couldn't be His Son. In Hebrews 1:8 God, the Father, '... when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.'
I am human because my father and mother were human. I couldn't be human from a monkey father and a donkey mother. (I am only illustrating.) So, again, the Son of God is God because His Father is God, begotten, or born, of God.
And in John 5:23 we read, I quote,
"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
"
So the Son is honoured and worshipped as the Father for the Father commanded that. But in the same time, the Son honours His Father because He is His God (Revelation 3:12) and Father, but not the other way around. Ultimately God, the Father, is the Almighty God, the Creator of all through His Son (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 1:2)
Apostle Paul said, I quote,
"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son [of God] also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
" (1 Corinthians 15:28) (Added words for emphasis are mine.)
It is also interesting to note that in Revelation 1:1 the beloved disciple said, I quote,
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"
Here we see that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, revealed to his servants things which must come to pass, WHICH His Father GAVE Him; again, 'which God gave unto him'. So, if God 'gave unto him' those revelations, then it must mean that He didn't know those before. And this ties in quiet well with what Jesus said, I quote,
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)
So, again, according to Scripture, there are things that the Son doesn't know. But, if He were co-eternal and co-equal, with the Father, He would know everything without being revealed to Him by the Father.
@@rudolfberki8683 My, this is very interesting but I still don't understand and it's something I've been wanting to understand for some time. I have friends who think that Jesus is Yahweh. Isn't it true that the Father was IN Christ reconciling the world to himself?
Also, it means that there is only ONE God. Of course this is something that the Muslims cannot understand. They are not the only ones because most Christians don't understand either! Hiw can we have an answer for them if we don't even know ourselves?
How can God the Father, who is Creator, need Jesus to help him create?
blah blah blah ...
The word "God" occurs some 1315 times in the New Testament. Yes, one thousand, three hundred and fifteen. Not once does the word "God" mean the Trinity. In the Bible, God is the Father.
Who was Thomas speaking to? My Lord and my God! ??
What a giant lolcow you are, just like the ones on the KiwiFarms.
@@sayloltothetroll6806
If you are a Catholic, OK. If you are a Protestant:
Do you see in the Bible where Jesus describes the concept of the Trinity?
Do you see in the Bible where the apostles describe that concept of the Trinity?
@@billschlegel1 Yes, the Trinity is used throughout the Bible.
@@sayloltothetroll6806 Where is one place that Jesus explained that the one God is three?
Sounds like a bunch of philosophical rubbish.
Too Deep!
To an unlearned mind.