The Basics of Trinitarian Theology
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2023
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This is a discussion of Trinitarian theology which includes talk of the eternal generation of Christ, the procession of the Holy Spirit, and basic terms used by theologians to speak about the Trinity.
Can I just say that I love the PowerPoint presentation style. It's incredibly helpful to keep track of my thoughts during the show.
Just over 200 likes is an injustice to this hard work, thank you for this video. Your explanations and knowledge is impeccable. God Bless you for your efforts.
This is a great lesson for people who need a reminder of what we beleive and why we bereive it. Thanks some much for posting this!
Yes, regarding your query about offering PowerPoint when you have the time to do them. I found them helpful. And yes, you should consider offering copies of the PP presentation to donors or should charge for them.
Always lovely to see "the basics" as the title of an hour long video. Valiant work sir.
Well, for a topic like God Himself, that is a very brief span of time!
@@HurtsKelce-yq2udi'd like to see a thousand year long video next time. God would be like, "that was just a day-long seminar."
@@SonOfThineHandmaid ashish there’s no way you’d finish that you greedy Gus
Excellent video Pastor
Probably the best intro to the Trinity iv seen and iv seen quite a bit. Clear understandable. Pro PowerPoints
I've been dialoging with my pastor recently on this issue, he's more of a Rahnerian/Jensonite social trinitarian whereas I am going at it from Gerhard (+ Neoplatonism). "Back to the Fathers" is a tricky game, because retrieval does often come with culture-philosophy import in the actual execution of reconstruction.
It's very interesting to see where our presuppositions diverge (despite using much of the same terminology). Benedict XVI I think had a balanced understanding that imanence and economics are indeed united, but getting the order right is important.
In any case, looking forward to giving this a listen!
too many -isms.... one mroe reason why I am dubious of our "theologians"
@@zoomer9686 there is only one ism in the comment
0ххххх00хх0х
It would be better to mention the references related books, articles, etc in the description box to learn more detail.
Excellent. Regarding PP, the points could be a little larger in size
the basics? only an hour long? my brother in Christ, you have barely tickled the clown here!
I like the power point format. Also you should consider collaborating with the Lutheran Scholastics channel. Not to many Lutherans talk about Doctrine of God these days and it's definitely made our theology alot weaker.
What is the name of the song in the intro?
“A Mighty Fortress” 🎵
What does “derived” aseity even mean? Seems contradictory to me.
it is. Augustine and Calvin were heretics and morons
Thank you for this lecture!
I've been a believer for over 13 years but didn't understand God's word until He taught me Systematic Theology
And through SYSTEMATIC theology I realized I am a "Trinitarian"!
THIS IS SO COOL!
GOD GAVE ME A FAITH AND A COLLEGE LEVEL SCIENCE TO MASTER! ✊😆😚😁🥹💞✝️
Does the word 'unity' necessarily denote a group of things or entities? In my view a solitary one is in of itself undivided, which implies a natural state of unity.
With reference to your point that the Fatherhood is not shared, the one God is the Father of eternity as well as the Father of his creation. If this one God is a trinity of divine persons and he is the Father of his creation, it would appear to be that some kind of sharing of the Fatherhood of the one God, does exist. For example, in the Athanasian Creed, it says the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord, yet there are not three Lords but one Lord, which implies a shared Lordship in the trinity. I am applying that same principle to the one Fatherhood of the one God, if God is in fact a trinity of divine persons. Therefore, can I get some more clarity on this concept of the non-sharing of the Fatherhood of the Father?
God does not share His glory with another. Whatever can be called God (in the true sense) must be called God Himself. To say God shares anything violates Scripture.
If we call Jesus Christ the Son of God, as the Bible does, then this is not to imply that Jesus shares in nature with God as though he were a distinct being, but that Jesus is God Himself. Moreover, we cannot call the Holy Ghost something which also shares in God’s nature, but must be God Himself.
So in the clear language of the Bible we come to understand that God is SEEN through his visible image - Jesus Christ (Col 1:9, 2 Cor 4:6, Heb 1:3) and FELT through His Spirit - the Holy Ghost (2 Pet 1:21, John 3:8, Acts 1:2, 8).
That any distinction is made in Scripture between the Spirit of God and the Holy Ghost, is because the Holy Ghost is that same Spirit of God which moves on the inside of a man. Outside of man, the Spirit of God exists everywhere, filling up all of time and space across eternity because God is omnipresent.
Dr. Cooper “they don’t have distinct experiences”
Patripassionist heresy alert.
33:31 If it's not always the case, then it's not the case at all.
PowerPoint is helpful
The historian Dr. Needham points to the "trinity" resting on the shoulders of the Ante-Nicene Fathers. They were the ones that introduced the "trinity" into the Church. They were not popular, nor were they accepted. The majority of Christians were "Monarchian" according to Tertullian. They believed in only one God, who could not be divided. That is why Constantine's participation turned the world upside down with the New State Law and State Religion. All non-Trinitarians were persecuted from that point on. So, it was not the early Church that taught the Trinity!
PowerPoint is great
You claim there can only be three hypostases. From where do we know that? What if there are more, that are not for us to know at the moment? Could it not potentially be?
Ok. Where in the scriptures?
You said that the Trinity is biblical, yet history states that it was a formulated doctrine from Greek philosophy. Would you care to address this?
All of the components and building blocks for the Trinity are found throughout the Bible. Greek philosophical terms were used to explain this. Judaism provided the religion, Greece provided the words to explain it.
@@Dave_OGG
Nonsense. All the components and building blocks for the Trinity are found in the falsely called "Athanasian Creed."
The bible condemns the use of Greek philosophy. Study your bible carefully.
@@r.e.jr.1152 John appeals to Greek philosophy in John 1:1.
All the authors of the NT spoke Greek.
All of the Apostolic Fathers (men who KNEW the Apostles personally) believed Jesus and the Holy Spirit were God.
The vast majority of the Church Fathers spoke Greek and used Greek philosophy in their theology.
Paul alludes to Plato and Aristotle in his epistles.
The Reformers were able to prove the Trinity only using the Bible, so were the Puritans.
But I guess you're the only person who is right after 2,000 years! Why would we trust the men who compiled the Bible to be correct about what it says!
@@Dave_OGG
NO, you are wrong. The apostles were not Greek philosophers. That is a lie.
@@r.e.jr.1152 I didn't say they were
31:00 If Christ is the image of the Father, how do you see another image of the Father? How do you see another image of the Holy Ghost? It is clear from passages like Colossians 1:15 and Hebrews 1:3, that Jesus is the only image of the only person of God, and you cannot conceive of any more than him. What's more, all the fulness of the Godhead is described as being in the body of Jesus (Col 2:9). So where are these other persons??? How can I mentally picture the Father and the Holy Ghost outside of the image of Christ? How do I know the Father and the Holy Ghost even exist if I don't have the image of Jesus Christ to prove it?
You can twist the words like "of" all you want ("of-ness" that isn't even a word lol), but that's such a violation of Scripture and of language and grammar. No wonder so many new kinds of words and phrases had to be invented by the church fathers. The traditional rules of language were too restrictive for their false doctrine.
Another perspective on Jordan…
czcams.com/video/izEtzVHiIyQ/video.html
God is never a what but a who.
Trinitarianism is polytheism in denial. It’s like saying there are three men in one human.
👉And this is eternal life, that they may know YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 17:3
👉yet for us there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
1 Corinthians 8:6
👉 For there is ONE GOD, and ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
1 Timothy 2:5-6
👉and ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.
1 Corinthians 3:23 ASV
👉Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.'" John 20:17
👉 the same came unto him by night, and said to him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that thou doest, except God be with him.
John 3:2 ASV
👉 And Jesus advanced in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
Luke 2:52 ASV
👉 and walk in love, even as Christ also loved you, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for an odor of a sweet smell.
Ephesians 5:2 ASV
👉 For Christ entered not into a holy place made with hands, like in pattern to the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear before the face of God for us:
Hebrews 9:24 ASV
👉 “to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory for ever. Amen.”
Romans 16:27 ASV
👉and has made us to be a kingdom and priests TO SERVE HIS GOD AND FATHER--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Rev 1:6
👉Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--EXCEPT GOD ALONE.
Luke 18:19
👉For just as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
John 5:26
How is God granted to have life in himself?
"And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, 👉Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,👈hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exodus 3:15
👉The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus👈; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.
Acts 3:13 ASV
👉 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory for ever. Amen.
Romans 16:27 ASV
👉to the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and power, before all time, and now, and for evermore. Amen.
Jude 1:25
👉one Lord, one faith, one baptism, ONE GOD AND FATHER of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.
Ephesians 4:5-6 ASV
👉For they themselves report concerning us what manner of entering in we had unto you; and how ye turned unto God from idols, to serve a living and TRUE GOD, and to wait for HIS SON from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, who delivereth us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 ASV
👉 that THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, the Father of glory, may give unto you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him;
Ephesians 1:17 ASV
Loo
👉 "Let not your heart be troubled: BELIEVE IN GOD, BELIEVE ALSO IN ME.
John 14:1
👉He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of MY GOD, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD, and mine own new name.
Revelation 3:12 ASV
👉 And one of the scribes came, and heard them questioning together, and knowing that he had answered them well, asked him, What commandment is the first of all? Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. The second is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Of a truth, Teacher, thou hast well said that HE is one; and there is none other but HE: and to love HIM with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is much more than all whole burnt-offerings and sacrifices.
Mark 12:28-33 ASV
👉 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God the Almighty, and the Lamb, are the temple thereof.
Revelation 21:22 ASV
👉 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know; him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay: whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 2:22-24 ASV
👉that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him; having the eyes of your heart enlightened, that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to that working of the strength of his might which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and made him to sit at his right hand in the heavenly places,
Ephesians 1:17-20 ASV
👉Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified.
Acts 2:36 ASV
👉Now when Jesus came into the parts of Cæsarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Who do men say that the Son of man is? And they said, Some say John the Baptist; some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But who say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 16:13-17 ASV
⁸👉 (Speaking about Yahweh): “And now the LORD says, he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him - for I [the Messiah] am honored in the eyes of the LORD [Yahweh], and my God has become my strength - he says: ‘It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.'”
👉 Micah 5:4 - And he [the Messiah] shall stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD [Yahweh] his God. And they shall dwell secure, for now he shall be great to the ends of the earth.
👉even Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Acts 10:38 ASV
👉 For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:4 ASV
👉to all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed throughout the whole world.
Romans 1:7-8 ASV
👉 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, who receive glory one of another, and the glory that cometh from the only God ye seek not?
John 5:43-44 ASV
👉 For they themselves report concerning us what manner of entering in we had unto you; and how ye turned unto God from idols, to serve a living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, who delivereth us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 ASV
Eternal begetting? That makes zero sense. That’s like forever procreating.
My I request a debate between Jordan Cooper (Lutheran) versus Beau Brenson (Orthodox) with Joshua Sijuwade (Roman Catholic) on monoousia (Lutheran view) versus homoousia (Catholic and Orthodox view)? Because as an Eastern Catholic we profess Nicene Creed that the one God is the person of the Father alone not three members of Godkind species which imply tritheism. His Mind and His Spirit are consubstantial with God because they're not creatures. The two are God by predication. But only the Father alone is God by identity. The one God is not impersonal oneness of essence but rather the one person of the Father alone. Who eternally generated the Son and eternally spirated the Holy Spirit through the Son quod essentia.
Seems like a distinction without a difference and Lutherans don't think God is some abstract concept leading to tritheism. This is from the Smalcald Articles written by Martin Luther.
I. That Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three distinct persons in one divine essence and nature, are one God, who has created heaven and earth.
II. That the Father is begotten of no one; the Son of the Father; the Holy Ghost proceeds from Father and Son.
@@chemnitzfan654 "is of predication" and "is of identity" are not "a distinction without a difference." Because the Trinity is a category not a subject. A pronoun He can't be applied to Trinity. Trinity doesn't have existence, its three members exist. The three have pronouns He. Because each of them are subject. St Basil when asked why there is no three gods defended because there's only one Father. The patristic defense is never about monotheism of essence, mono ousia. But rather defended on the monarchy of the Father, monotheism of hypostasis. The subject that is God by identity is one not three. The other two caused divine persons Mind and Life, belong to the one God eternally. The one God eternally begat His own Mind and grant His Mind to have Life as God Himself has Life. Philo of Alexandria according to holy tradition was one among Greeks who asked St Phillip in the Gospel of John to meet with Jesus outside the Temple in Jerusalem. He later met with St Dionysius the Areopagus, St Paul, and St Mark.
I am confident by inviting Beau Brenson and Joshua Sijuwade, Jordan Cooper will get a lot of interest among Eastern Orthodox, Catholics, and Muslims. Particularly Jake Brancatella who has been using monoousia line of thoughts to show that if the one God refer to Trinity then Protestantism profess tritheism. Because Trinity to its individual members are analogous to human species to its individual members. When the oneness of God is of impersonal essence participated by its individual members then Trinity according to Muslims is no different than Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades participate in Greek pantheon. Patristic testimony including St Athanasius profess the one God by identity is the Father alone. The Son is fully God not by identity but because He is consubstantial with His Father. Monotheism is maintained by monarchianism. In Islam, Allah is never without Kalimatullah. The later is not a creature because without, Allah would be mindless. Yet, co-eternal with Allah is not introducing associates as another God because Kalimatullah is God not by identity but by consubstantiality with Allah.
@Adithia Kusno Once again, you don't seem to understand the Lutheran view of God very well. I don't see a fundamental difference between most of what you are saying and what Luther wrote in the Smalcald Articles.
Some of what you are saying sounds like heresy because you aren't really defining terms. Do you think God is only one hypostasis (person)?
Saying that Christ is caused is also kind of sketchy, depending on how you mean it.
Finally, the Nicene Creed says homoousia, which is what Lutherans believe. Saying only the Father is God by identity violates homoousious and is heresy.
"Trinitarian theology" is a phrase that is used to describe the views of Thomas Torrence and related theologians, rather than simply describing the Trinity.
I was hoping that this video would cover "Trinitarian theology" in this context.
I belonged to a cultic group, Armstrongism, which adopted "Trinitarian theology" after leaving the belief system of Herbert Armstrong.
I am now a Particular Baptist and agree with the Trinity and evangelical Christianity. However, my understanding is that Torrance and others like him adopted a different worldview called "Trinitarian Theology" which uses the Trinity as a lens for viewing all of Scripture.
I understand that it involves something pretty close to universalism.
If you understand "Trinitarian theology" in the T.F. Torrence sense, I would like to see a video on this belief system. From what I understand about it, I would not agree with it.
All the arguments for the Trinity sound to me like a philosophical idea that tries to fuse together mutually exclusive states of being and it never works as far as I am concerned. Three of anything (like persons) are separate and individual. The Christian Trinity doctrine seems a desperate attempt to avoid supporting the idea of three gods in one, which its very wording suggests. If God is an Omni everything spirit being, how can such a being be divided into parts or persons that have limits to their nature. How can the three persons of the trinity be distinct persons and only one being at the same time. Perhaps God can manifest in various modes of being but can a mode be everything that God is?
The trinity doctrine was formulated by "Christian" philosophers who adopted the doctrine from Hellenism. The reason why the "Christian" trinity sounds like a philosophical idea is because it _is_ a philosophical idea. It definitely never came from the Bible, because Jhn 1:1 describes only _2_ individual Beings called "God" that have existed for eternity.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 Yes there are also statements like 1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." and we could no doubt go around in circles slinging verses and interpretations. I tend to think that various authors in various quarters had ideas they penned and later on thinkers realized there were issues with those ideas but by that point it was too late to do anything about it but try to reconcile those ideas once the cannon was established.
If anything can be predicated of the Father, which cannot be predicated of the Son and Spirit, there is a clear division in the godhead and simplicity is false.
You all really need to choose between monism and tri-theism.
The basics of the Trinity according to Nicea: “We believe *in one God, the Father almighty,*
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible;
*And in one Lord, Jesus Christ,”*
Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν Πατέρα παντοκράτορα
ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων·
καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν
So the most basic truth is there is One God, and He is the Father. Not Jesus, who is only God from the God (theos from Theon).
So polytheism?
Or maybe an Arianism of sorts?
Would you say that the Father is not Lord?
You stop quoting just before disproving yourself. The Nicene Creed goes on to make clear that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all equally God from eternity.
Try the Athenasian Creed written by students of Athenasius, one of the authors of the Nicene Creed. It makes the doctrine of the Trinity very clear.
Not understandable, we are human, but clear.
@@dave1370
Your definition of polytheism is of no concern with regards to what Scriptures teach and what the 325 Nicene Creed says. It says the One God is the Father just as Jesus taught (John 17:3) and Scriptures state plainly (1 Corinthians 8:6), and Jesus Christ is theos (ie predicate “divine”) because He is born of the sane substance/nature as His Father. That’s not Arianism. I’m literally teaching homoousion with the Father.