Doug Gottlieb Disputes Nick Wright's 'Case Against Michael Jordan' Rant
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- čas přidán 12. 10. 2020
- DOUG GOTTLIEB - Doug Gottlieb reacts to Nick Wright's rant that makes a strong case against the legacy of Michael Jordan. After the Lakers won an NBA Championship with LeBron James at the helm, Nick took it upon himself to showcase what he feels the media doesn't want fans to hear. Doug disputes this and provides the context Nick Wright left out.
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Listening to Nick Wright is like listening to a 3rd grader talk. You are right on point Mr. Doug keep up the good work. Jordan is the GOAT.
He has the voice of a 3rd grader too lmao
I was just saying that same sentiment in regards to Nick Wright...a whole 🤡
lebron couldn't even get into the playoffs his first years that's being a winner
So true
The arguments they come up with are outright silly.
Greatness is not defined by stats or rings. It's defined by the legacy you leave behind. Nobody's legacy will ever pass Michael Jordan's period. MJ is the goat
LEGACY MEANS NOTHING IF U PLAY VS UNDERDOGS
U CANT HAVE 4 HOF AND KNICKS ONLY EWING. JORDAN IS NOBODY IN HISTORY. WILT IS GOD !!
Well it just so happens that Jordan has the stats and rings as well 🤣
@@PIP...33 God is the Father of Jesus Christ.
@@John6-40
WHAT STATS ??? WHAT RINGS ?? HORRY 7 RINGS AND MOST DAGGERS IN HISTORY. TOO BAD JORDAN HAS NO 7 RINGS AND NEED KERR PAXSON KUKOC DAGGERS. HORRY WINNING RINGS WITH HIS SHOOTS, JORDAN CRY FROM OTHERS TO SAVE HIS RINGS.
Bill Russel has a better legacy and Kareem does too.
MJ was amazing he's the best player I have ever seen.
Me tooooo best ive ever seen!!!!
Sorry you lost your TV privileges.
Easily. That’s the thing. It’s not even close.
I wish I got to watch him
@@roselelouch3038 If you seen Kobe play you seen Jordan. Only thing is, Kobe was a better defender of great players. Jordan could not defend great players, not saying that he did not try, but it was brutal.
“Everyone ate on Jordan’s watch”?🙄 I guess Hall of Famers like Charles Barkley, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, and Reggie Miller don’t count. Nick Wrong needs to read “Basketball for Dummies” because his basketball IQ is 40 below
Don't forget Dominique Wilkins
When Hakeem and Clyde got his he was retired. Kobe and Shaq and the Spurs got theirs MJs wizards yrs. It’s hilarious how Nick Wrong can be on tv spewing lies and bullshit
but he said only 1. mj own team. ahahahahahaha! funny as hell nick wrong.
@@gabeyoung4907 good point. He’s another one
@@HardWorkENT23 it’s so easy to see through his hot garbage takes
Michael Jordan had non-sports fans watching basketball..ppl who didn't watch before or since..every kid of every color wanted to be "like Mike"..you didn't watch basketball..you watched the Bulls..like Doug said..had to be there 🏀🏀🏀
True that last game against the jazz had 39 million views!
well said. This is where people miss what constitutes greatness. Skill, achievements is one thing. But when you literally re contextualize the game for people before you and after you, that is greatness! When you make documentaries a thing to do (watch the number of documentaries done now), when you are the first to do shoe lines, the first to popularize a number, etc. You literally create a path for others to follow. That is greatness. It doesn't mean others aren't great, but paving the path for others makes the path easier for others!
@@maczed31 ok Allen iverson did all that that doesn’t make him a goat lol
Expand
@@bighomiedot4729 Iverson also didn't even win once and only made it even to the Finals once. All the extra mystique matters a ton, but it only matters at all if you meet the first requirement of a GOAT, which is to win.
The Scottie Pipen argument always bothered me because just like he said Scottie grew into being a hall of famer as Michel carried the team. Scottie was not a star on another team who came and played with Jordan. Then they say, well he also had Dennis Rodman. Well Rodman was not a scorer, plus he was being moved around the league at the time because of his antics and the Bulls brought him in because Michel could tame him some and keep him focused.
Those who make that foolish Jordan didn't win anything without Pippen argument are grasping at straws in desperation. Jordan played exactly three seasons with the Bulls before Pippen arrived and one of those seasons, MJ was injured most of the season and played in only 18 regular season games. And you're absolutely right about Pippen developing alongside Jordan. Pippen was drafted as an unknown after playing college ball at the garbage NAIA level and only averaged slightly under 8 ppg as a rookie. Can any of those Jordan detractors name a player that developed into a HOF while playing alongside Lebron, starting out as someone coming off the bench averaging less than double figure ppg, after coming into the league as someone nobody had ever heard of?
I honestly feel it was more important for mj that he had phil than scottie. Playing with mj and in the triangle under arguably the greatest coach ever is a role many different players could fill. No one could do mj's job as well as he did
@@demontiakpinkney5881 When did Pippen win more games with the Bulls without MJ? After taking off the entire 93-94 season, MJ returned for the last 17 regular season games of the 94-95 season and the team won 14 of those games after being one game over .500 prior to that.
MJ had just completed a three peat with the Bulls before taking off most of those two seasons before Rodman ever arrived there. And Lebron also played with two guys who finished third in MVP voting in DWade and ADavis.
Also Lebron and his Miami Heat team with three all stars lost in the finals to the Mavericks in 2011 with only one all star on their roster... do you like that or not? Can you name another time in NBA history when that happened?
@@demontiakpinkney5881 The 1993-94 Eastern Conference was severely weakened, not just with Michael Jordan's retirement. Atlanta had the best record in the East despite trading Dominique Wilkins for Danny Manning after the All-Star Game break. Cleveland made the playoffs despite losing Brad Daugherty and Larry Nance to career-ending injuries. Boston lost Kevin McHale to retirement and Reggie Lewis died before the start of the season. Detroit's Isiah Thomas suffered his career-ending Achilles injury that season. Charlotte's Larry Johnson and Alonzo Mourning suffered a series of injuries that kept the Hornets out of the playoffs.
That is a lot of perennial All-Stars and future hall of famers to remove from the chessboard at once. The Bulls were able to survive because they still had most of the roster and the entire coaching staff from a team that won three straight championships, plus added Toni Kukoc to the mix. And yet the Bulls lost in the second round of a weakened East because their 1993-94 numbers were down from the previous season and it was because Jordan was gone.
@@demontiakpinkney5881 Michael Jordan basically played two seasons and missed most of a third season before Chicago drafted Scottie Pippen. You're acting like Pippen was an All-NBA player when he came to Chicago. He sat behind Brad Sellers as a rookie, and it took him several years to develop into an All-Star-caliber player.
And you keep going on about Chicago's record in the playoffs in Jordan's first three playoff appearances. Two of the series losses came to one of the greatest teams in NBA history (the Larry Bird-led Celtics) and the third series loss came to a veteran, deep Milwaukee team (essentially the 1980s equivalent of the current Miami Heat roster -- a team made up of switchable 6-foot-4 to 6-8 defensive-oriented, mentally tough, battle-tested players).
Meanwhile, LeBron James' teams didn't make the playoffs in his first two seasons. And I certainly would keep quiet after we just saw a LeBron-led team with him, Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook -- which was favored to win the NBA title -- fail to make the playoffs and nearly lost 50 games this season.
People talk about Pippen like LBJ never played with D-Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, AD and even Kevin Love. LBJ won them chips alone... ridiculous!!
Well Said!
@@demontiakpinkney5881 what you mean help? None of the first three peat had been on a championship team, but LeBron went to Miami where D.Wade had won
LeBron did not win a rain till he got Kyrie Irving Kevin Love Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, Ray Allen. And the bubble that they create it after he laid off of 4 months before he played.
How many rings does kyrie,Bosh,ad,and love have without bron? Same as me
@@noahpassmore6452 same amount pip got without mike!!!!
Finally! Doug did a great job laying out the whole Pippen thing because folks have no real idea that Pippen was drafted by the Bulls and came off the bench early in his career. Nick Wright and Shannon Sharpe want everyone to believe that Pippen came to the Bulls as a HOF talent when the truth is that he grew into a HOF player playing with MJ. There is no denying that Lebron’s 8 yr title was based solely on him using free agency joining and forming title contending teams with already established All-Star level talent. You can’t use the cheat code and then have a losing Finals record, but still be called the GOAT against a player with 6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs, and dominant stats.
Pippen wasn't drafted by the bulls he was traded to the bulls by the sonics
@@michaelkawell5861 - There is a difference between getting selected and drafted. Pippen left the draft as a Bull which I view it as actually being drafted. If a team selects you and then give you away 3 picks later, they didn't draft you. Pippen was only selected by the Sonics, but was actually drafted by the Bulls. Pippen was NEVER a Sonic and they gave away their draft rights to the Bulls for a player and picks.
@@michaelkawell5861
you are correct that on paper, Pippen was drafted by the Sonics just like Kobe was drafted by Charlotte.
Pippen was used as draft bait so it doesn’t change the fact that the Bulls wanted him bad enough to give up more draft capital to acquire him.
It’s kinda like trying to point out who is the real mother. If she raised you from birth, you are the mother regardless of coming out of someone else’s womb.
Doug Thanks for having the fortitude to speak the truth. One guy stayed with his team and became the foundation of a dynasty. The other guy picks a new location, recruits new teammates and starts over every 3-4 years.
@arronnov nothing wrong go to the another team but by deciding teamup with this superstars and have the power to fire coach and trade players u suppose to win 10chips in ur career . Imagine jordan have that power in this softest era ,trading teamates,firing coash and avrg 40-50pts a game . Lebron is the greatest player in this era and i put lebron over kobe i think kobe is overreted but the GOAT? NO! ther are only 3 player u can debate whos the GOAT thats Mj/kareem and bill Russell .
@@dtechzsama Thank you. LeBron is free to do whatever he wants. But people are trying to compare accomplishments when LeBron has taken a different route than any other superstar in history. He has moved THREE times! He has never been the foundation of a team that went from nothing to championship like almost every other superstar. And he leaves (quits) the minute he feels the team is no longer on top of the mountain.
I think this says it all... LeBron, even after getting AD, still tried to recruit Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler. SMH. He loves the deck stacked in his favor but he wants full credit for everything he does.
@@TayGee-mh8eo Shows you that He just really want to be like mike and want to surpass him as the GOAT . All this GOAT talks are just for entertainment all this liberal sports media wants to stay relevant and confuse this new generation fans about ther bullsh**t
@@dtechzsama Preach
@@dtechzsama There are parallels. The liberal sports media is accustomed to directing how we view sports. They frame things in a way that manipulate us into thinking what they want us to think.
Except it's not working with LeBron James. They have spent years trying to convince us that LeBron is the GOAT. Every season is a referendum on LeBron's status as GOAT. Nothing else matters. The NBA is so desperate to fill that massive black hole of popularity that MJ left that they need to convince the world there is someone better to bring the fans back.
But we are not stupid. This is like trying to convince us that Usher is a better entertainer than Michael Jackson in his prime. Those that actually watched know better. And there are plenty of videos posted that educate the others.
The media's inability to change the narrative pisses off them off because it exposes how they aren't omnipotent. No one is talking about Anthony Davis, who was the true matchup nightmare for every team the Lakers played. AD may as well be BJ Armstrong.
The 2020 NBA Finals was the least watched NBA Finals on record. We are not stupid.
And LeBron has played 17 seasons. He's won 4. So those 13 seasons don't exist for LeBron? 🤣 Nick stupid af.
He was calling out a double standard dummy. He never says those things in his argument. He is pointing out what mj lovers do.
At least he went to the finals in those years. 9 years of MJ's career was irrelevant.
He’s saying MJ played more then 6 years
6 finals 6playoffs loses.. LBJ 17 years 10 finals 4 wins 6losses...
Well I'm ok losing in the finals than the playoffs especially losing in first round
And Lebron succeeded far more in those non championship years than Jordan did is his non championship years, but no one mentions that.
See the thing is Nick is 36 and I'm 34. I remember vividly the second 3 peat. So I know for a fact Nick was too much of a square to watch sports back then cuz there is no way in hell, he'll pick Lebron over MJ. You have to actually have seen MJ live on TV during the Championship years to have an opinion on who's the greatest lol
i make this argument every time with lebron fanatics. if you saw jordan during the mid 90s there is no way you can say lebron is on the same tier as mj.
I've watched MJ, the problem is have YOU watched LBJ? I will one up you - tell me one time where Mj had a better finals game than LBJ's May 31 2018 game 1 of the finals. Against 4 HOF, 73-9 team plus KD and he goes 51 pts/8 reb/8 ass, 59% FG and 33% 3pt. Away from home. Or the year before the 3-1 comeback against 4 HOF again...
When did MJ play vs anything even remotely close to this type of competition? The norm for LBJ is to play vs 3-4 HOF stacked teams...first breather in 10 years was 2020.
All you MJ worshipers have as arguments is 6-0 and 2011...like MJ played only 6 years and LBJ played only in 2011. It doesn't work like that.
@@harrybg998 the norm for LeBron is to play 3-5 HOF teams. That is so funn
@@harrybg998 been watching basketball since the mid 80s...never seen anything like MJ...
To be honest that ring against the Warriors made me change my view on Bron and he entered my all time top 5 but I am not impressed with a forward having 8 rebounds in a finals game in a time where point guards average triple doubles cos there are so many rebounds to grab in this trigger happy, high scoring league. Teams attempt almost 3 times as many 3s compared to the 90s...so how many rebounds would Bron average in times where games ended 70 to 78 ?
6.4 and chubby Charles Barkley averaged more rebounds , blocks and steals than Bron.
Bron is awesome but he has some major weaknesses:
Free throws and especially late in the game...it means he will shy away from driving to the basket to avoid going to the line.
He averages way to few rebounds as an all time great...he is a 6.8 powerhouse at forward with freaky athletic gifts ...
His blocks and steals are too low as well...just all defensive stats.
Bron is unfortunately not even Top 25 defensively and I mean at forward, even though he has shown that he has the IQ to be a defensive force...we've seen him do that but he sometimes takes complete games off on D. Just sad.
You know I have mad respect for Bron but he is just not on MJs level.
MJ was arguably the best defensive SG of all time...he averaged more blocks per game than Bron...as a matter of fact, 40 yr old MJ on the Wizards averaged more blocks than Bron in his last year in Cleveland. Actually even Dwayne Wade averaged more blocks than Bron...
@@thedudeunchained7583 these Bronsexuals are delusional
So lets see here, Bron is his first 7 seasons made the playoffs 5 times and DNQ in his first 2, made the Finals once (amazing but lost). MJ made the playoffs all 7 seasons and made the Finals once also, but won his first Finals.
The Heat underachieved with A Prime LeBron DWade Bosh
DWade was only good in the first two years. In the third year, he was deteriorating and in the fourth year, he was not the same anymore. Just look at his Finals performance. Bosh was also not playing to his level in the Finals in 2014. Cannot put that on LBJ
@@EntertainmentGuru101 stop with the excuses, tim duncan was 40 at the time
@@EntertainmentGuru101 ... Wade didn't deteriorate. He had to learn how to play off the ball so Lebron could control the ball more because he can't play off the ball. And guess who Wade watched tapes of in order to learn how???? MICHAEL JORDAN!!!
@@riccolewis7399 thank you
@@ericjordan6059 Wade had health problems... whether he learned from whomever does not change his health
MJ got 3 straight finals MVPs... TWICE!
MJ never beat a team in the Finals that eventually won a ring. LBJ beat the Spurs dynasty( or Duncan would be 6-0 in finals) and he beat the warrior dynasty.
@JERMAINE FISHER which of those teams had three hall of famers in their primes or at all. The lakers were good but old. LeBron played the warriors, Spurs, thunder with three plus hofers each. He beat them all once and lost as well. Jordan’s competition was weak. He was on the only super team in the league. LeBron has played two dynasties at their peaks.
Jordan played the pistons before IT got hurt and the Celtics dynasties and was 0fer.
@JERMAINE FISHER didn’t he win the MVP ? They had klay steph with, green and Iggy vs LeBron and delavadova. That team is better than any team Jordan beat.
@JERMAINE FISHER what r u talking about? Parker and ginobli and Kawhi were not going to the hof if they don’t win in 2014? One series result changes how good of a player they are? That’s nonsense. Nobody is in the hof until they retire and get voted in.
Jordan had 2 hof teammates and the goat coach and never beat a team that had more than he did. When he was outnumbered he didn’t even make the finals.
Couldn’t beat the pistons until they got old. Never beat the Celtics.
At least LeBron beat the Spurs and warriors when they had the hof number advantage.
Nick wright, Brandon marshals and Kendrick Perkins are the worst people on tv talking sports
^ true story
The bucks were really really good in the 80s left that out
But the p problem is that nobody cares how dominant the teams are during LeBron era. Everyone just poo poos on this modern era.
I thought he would’ve mention the bucks
The bucks have the most wins for an eastern Conf team in the 80s. They were always in the top 3 in standings
They held the #2 seed from 80-86... won 60 games in 80 and over 50 for the next 8 years. They had no super stars but were in a stacked East going against the dynasty Celtics bad boy pistons and 76ers when they were great. Also bulls were up and coming. Just because you are like 15-16 doesn’t mean you know everything about basketball. Just because you haven’t heard of a lot of players before your time doesn’t mean they were bad. You just know what u seen during your generation. They went to the Conf finals 4 times but couldn’t beat pistons celts or 76ers who were HOF teams...
@Me Too but Lebron got hoed by lil ass j j barea and Jason terry who never made an all star team and will never be HOF. Jordan won 6/6 no matter how u slice it bron lost 6. I love bron but I can’t make someone who lost 6 times the goat. Also Jordan dominated people bigger than him during his run and lebron dominates the people smaller than him which he is supposed to do...
A hall of fame career still separates MJ from LBJ:
1 MVP
2 Rings
2 FMVP
1DPOY
4 first team all defense
9 scoring titles
3 steals titles
2 slam dunk titles
NICK WRONG was never Right.
LeBron was robbed of DPOY 2012-2013. He was in MVP running this year, and had other years he should have likely won MVP. He's got a shot at 2-3 more rings. Jordan doesn't have an assists title. LeBron just got 1 and could get another (and perhaps more). So we'll see how it goes for LeBron over the next 4 or 5 years.
Uk the arguement is weak when they put dunk titles up there 😂🤣
@@ByWhatDesign should of would of could of, like sayin bulls would of won not 1 not 2,3,4,5,6,7,8🤣🤣🤣🤣 truth is, lebron is lazy and sucks at defense otherwise he would of been to contest like with Jordan!!!
@@bighomiedot4729 that's cuz bron is a puss who didnt want any smoke from dunk contests 😂😂
@@darylboyd14 how he was dominant with defense this year
Nick is delusional tell him to name all the people that LeBron had with him when he did win a title and Jordan taught his teammates how to rock and roll LeBron went and picked all the superstars just for him to get a ring so cut it out Nick, Shannon this is crazy do the math Jordan work extra harder to get his championships not including training all the other guys he had to work with him, not like LeBron going picking superstars to play with, give me a break that's why Michael Jordan is the greatest if you going to be true to yourself be for real think about it
Poppa Hoggg “all the superstars”. Tell me what Bosh/Love/Kyrie did before and after playing with LeBron other then miss the playoffs 18/25 total years without playing with LeBron in a league where 16/30 make it!
Poppa Hoggg So bc MJ had a HOF coach and more importantly GM who acquired talent (Pippen and Grant in 87) and Cavs first 7 years were horrid LeBron should of just stayed in awful situation where they drafted or acquired no legit talent? 🤣
He's an idiot he said jordan never beat a super team then says there were three super teams the celtics magic and pistons and his record against them was 2-6 in order for his record to be 2-6 against those super teams it implies that he beat them therefore he contradicts his own so called point he's a sophomore (wise fool)
GmsStreetSharks the only SUPER TEAM he played was 85/86 celtics in playoffs and swept twice
Mj had 2 Hall of Famers and a hof coach
Pippen averaged 7.9 ppg, 6rpg, 5 apg in his rookie year. Pippen did not make that 87-88 team above .500. Give me a break Wright.
@Rob L I wasn’t talking about 1994 when Jordan didn’t play. They made it sound as if when Pippen arrived in 87-88 he was the difference maker in making the bulls above .500 that year. I’m saying his stats for his rookie year show otherwise. Also Pippen didn’t become the player we know him today to be until the 91-93 seasons.
@Rob L
MJ made Pippen. If Pippen was not traded to the Bulls on draft day he would have been just another guy. No one knew who Pippen was when he was drafted. It took Pippen four years before he was ready for championship basketball. I grew up on the southside of Chicago in the 80's & 90's and saw MJ and Pippen whole career.
@@adamcarpenter1869 That is irrelevant because once Pippen became reliable, he ended up being one of the best players ever and arguably the best defender in the 90s (you can even make the case ever). Pippen started to show his potential starting from the 89-90 season.
@@djbhe This whole 'MJ made Pippen' is being overstated. Pippen already had the potential because by that same logic why was Pippen the only player that was 'made' by MJ? MJ played with many good players not just Pippen (certainly if you look at Pippen's rookie season).
Furthermore, look at how Kobe started? It took him a couple of years also. Who 'made' him? Some basketball players take longer to become great and some are great from the start (i.e. LBJ).
@@EntertainmentGuru101 not irrelevant. I was disagreeing with the assertion that Pippen was the reason the bulls went above .500 when Pippen got there his rookie season. I’m saying that wasn’t entirely true based on his stats his rookie season.
I imagine how much he is paid for saying all this non sense. 😅 talk to me when lebron won a 3peat. Jordan just did it 2x. Take note the 2nd one was after 1st retirement. 🤣🤣🤣
You gotta point with that one💯
@@calvinmack151 I'm willing to bet if there was an audit of Klutch Sports, you will find an odd account or entry that masks payments to Shannon Sharpe and Nick Wright. They are LeBron James propagandists! I stand on the fact that several in sports media are paid bt Klutch. Some are not monetary, they receive perks like invitations to events and parties, free merch etc. Nick is the nerd who knows nothing about basketball's intricacies, just number crunching and thinks that makes him an authority. Then it's his duty to manipulate and spin interpretation of those numbers in LBJ and his sorry attempt to declare LeBron James the goat.
PREACH!!👏👏👏
@@seanswinton6242 Not sure if you're being serious or not but I'm with you. Dude got Michele Beadle fired from his network ESPN and their is this thing about LeBron that he needs to control the narrative about his image.
Why are we making a fuss about what Nick wrong said? He's one of the most biased takes out there. Klutch sports employee of the year since 2012
Definitely on the payroll
😂😂😂
@Robert Crocker Nick lies by omitting context. He does it all the time. That entire list of all players who won on MJ's watch (LOL) were in either MJ's rookie or second season or when he was a Wizard! Except for Magic in 87, 88 and Isiah in 89 and 90 and Hakeem in 95. Any idea how long the list is who won on Lebron's watch... you got time because that list's twice as long
Oh and complete loser without Pippen is such nonsense. So the season MJ was DPOY and MVP and he was an absolute freak at both ends. That was Scotties rookie season. Scottie and Horace were both 7ppg rookies, Scottie did not start a single game that season. But yeah MJ only won that year because of Scottie.
The only time's MJ faced Larry was Larry's peak prime and he had 5 HOF on his team! So yes Nick did not lie, Larry swept MJ twice when MJ had pretty terrible teams. Ask yourself this, would Lebron not get swept by the 86 Celtics in his 2nd or 3rd season? Of course he would. Lebron was swept by the 07 Spurs his 4th season, the 07 Spurs were a really good team, maybe 35th best all time. The 86 Celtics are top 5 best team in history.
@@bobbyd1632 wow look at that long list of excuses you typed up. great job.
@@The_Notorious_CRG Come on Bro if adding context and clarity to correct a really misleading statement are excuses then you're brainwashed AF
Oh yeah I forgot Jordan even took a break whatever you want to call it retirement from basketball came back and won championships he didn't come back and say well I need magic Johnson I need Kareem Abdul-Jabbar none of that mess
@dfrinsco facts....they lost on a bad call too.
Hmmm...but when the Bulls refused to re-sign Phil and Pippen after the 1998 Championship when MJ was still in his prime, he realized he was gonna be without his superpowers so he quit the game all together. But he didn't need a superteam... gotcha 😉
@@mobetta2092
Lebrons played with 40 all stars compared to Jordans 2.
This year alone he had AD, Howard and Rondo.
@@MichaelP-ke1tm Rondo and Dwight? Really? How many teams were pursuing these two this year?
@@mobetta2092
My point stands. 40 all stars and like 20 hall of famers for 4-6.
I love that Doug is going after his counterparts, and that his takes are spot on.
He thinks if you shout loud enough, that makes it true
There’s an excellent book on Nicks “condition” called “Losing Reality. On cults, cultism and the mindset of political and religious zealotry”. He and his ilk have really gone down the rabbit hole of irrational conflated arguments, gaslighting techniques and cultism to defend this very flawed narrative. And worst of all, there’s all this vitriol and hyperbole about it. Like anyone that would prefer a six time, dual three-peat champion is somehow completely crazy.
Hey Nick, it’s just hoops. And, it’s just your pencil neck non hoopin, OPINION editorial on hoops. Relax little fella.
There is a good argument that Lebron is better than Jordan except that his own argument went off the deep end
@@bearholdensharkslux4791 I’m not sure if it’s a “good” argument, but I agree that I’d definitely be more open to discussing that argument if he hadn’t narcissistically inserted himself into the conversation and called himself “the goat”. Not sure it would change my mind about his path to his championships or his losses, but I’d at least be able discuss his career without considering his own arrogance about the subject.
Two honest questions, no shade intended:
1) Did you watch the context of Nick Wright's entire conversation with Chris Broussard? Because while Doug painted this as Nick popping off at the mouth, this was actually him responding to a list of reasons that Chris provided for why he felt Jordan was the goat. It wasn't just him spinning a narrative for clicks, he was responding to points with counter points in the middle of a back and forth, not just publishing an anti-Jordan manifesto. Ironic how Doug claimed that context was important while taking Nick's comments completely out of context...
2) Do you hold calling themselves the greatest against other elite athletes like Ali, Floyd, Dion... Etc? Again no shade just curious. I think this debate captivates people because as much as the two sides insist it ain't close, it actually is closer empirically than it is emotionally which makes it fascinating. Personally I think LeBron ultimately has more utility as far as what you can call on him to do in a game or a series, but in the dictionary next to "basketball player" there should be a picture of Michael Jordan because they way he played the game was more beautiful than anyone will ever see again. He was a clinician on the court, and the fact that he did what he did during the toughest defensive era of basketball is remarkable. Wherever you fall though, I think it should definitely be between these two guys.
@@phantomcyrano I watched Nick’s breakdown and then came across Doug’s response. Nick made some interesting points, although as always simultaneously managing to be the master of conflation and disingenuous talking points.
The irony is that people like Nick are exactly why Lebron is disliked and often eliminate him from the GOAT discussion. It also ties into your question about Ali and Floyd.
Let’s start with I’m 55 and have been watching and playing sports since I was 10 years old.
I’ve watched all the men you mentioned and idolized Ali growing up. In terms of the idea of anyone saying that they are “The Greatest”, what I consider is the why, the way, The Who and the context. Boxing is an individual sport and Ali is best known for it, but braggadocio and open trash talk of that manner is part of “The Way” of things. Like say, early Hip Hop. As a kid I always loved Ali’s braggadocio because it was a natural and authentic part of his genuine character and made a one on one fight with another man interesting. Same thing in the WWF back when they pretended it was real wrestling.
In terms of Lebron and the greatest ever conversation, I wanted to like him from the moment I started hearing all this stories about him while he was in high school. However, it VERY rapidly turned into a kind of overkill by pundits of Nick’s ilk. The pundits and frankly the NBA itself began to just force feed me this narrative at a nauseating pace and volume. Eventually he turned around and even fed it to me himself!
I watched his game early on and I thought he can really grow into something special after he takes his lumps, goes through the gauntlet a bit and gets some better coaching and a really good supplemental player playing next to him. I thought he was poised to make a breakthrough on the heels of his first finals loss. We both know what happened next. He started a career long musical chairs movement to make it easier on himself. Look, he has every right to choose “The Way” goes about his career-especially in this hyper free agency era. He also has to realize it’s a very unorthodox “way” and is a very recent phenomenon to the sport.
The first attempt an “etiquette” change always risks the kickback. Sometimes it catches on quickly, e.g. long baggy shorts or the shot clock, and sometimes it takes a while to accept, e.g. dunking-which traditionalists frowned on for quite a while before accepting it was a good thing. Zero team allegiance, constant team hopping, super-team collusion, social justice sports and the players being more important than the fans and hometown/team identity may eventually become the thing. Right now it seems to be still rubbing the post-merger generation a bit wrong. And the ratings are starting to show it.
All this to say without really being able to get detailed on CZcams response...
“The Way” or the Tao of things matters.
Oh and... Sorry. I can’t take people like Nick and Shannon and Kendrick but so seriously anyway. Just sayin, can’t talk logically with someone who’s that in love with another man.
Lebron is playing inna totally different era which is soft where everyone is whining about fouls back then you had to overcome the physical plays
Yo guys for sure complained about fouls like a lot back then too. It is definitely softer now, but don’t act like people didn’t complain.
I’m tired of this argument it was physical cuz the level of talent is not even comparable in today’s game...if u play basketball u know 9/10 the most physical players on the court can’t really play so they compensate for physicality cuz they lack the overall talent if u look at all the physical teams back then how many of those physical guys where really elite players charles Barkley is not coming down pulling threes Patrick Ewing is not dribbling the ball down the court the talent in the nba now compared to then is unmatched
LeBron could play and shine in that ara too.
@@BullishArms the best defensive players are always physical. Also centers were coached to post up all game instead of shooting 3s which was usually left for the weaker players in those days. Being elite at one skill rather than being better all around as a player. Todays game is different you cant honestly say embiid is better than olajuwon or shaq cause he can shoot 3s.
Stupid argument. Basketball was never football. The constant talk about the league being better 20 years ago, is just a stupid premise. Players today are bigger, faster, stronger, and more skilled. Jordan didn’t play any teams in the finals that had more than 1.5 stars.
The feeling when Nick says the MJ is complete looser. damn dude.
Nick wrong is the real looser
Nick Wright is a zero in life so he's in no position to call anyone else a loser.
Nick making more of a case for Jordan saying he competed against 3 super teams. Tougher to make the finals lebron easier path but chokes
Jordan lost to all time great teams before he got help in Chicago.
but he didnt go to another team to win ..not like lebron
Did you know when they won in 91 and 98 Scottie Pippen wasn’t even an all star? And Rodman wasn’t even an all star when he played with the Bulls.
@@adamcarpenter1869 1990 pippen was. By 98 rodman was a two time all-star, defensive player of the year and rebound leader. Pippen several all stars all nba
@@miminoran8948 89/90 Pippen was an all star but not 90/91 season when they won the chip. Pippen missed a good chunk of the 97/98 season and wasn’t an all star. And Rodman wasn’t an all star while he was on the bulls. So Jordan was the only all star on the 91 championship bulls and the 98 championship bulls.
False nerratives mj haters
why does nick wright say list the magic as a team jordan didnt beat, when he swept them in 1996......
Need to look at ALL the players he claim ate in Jordan's era, even though he either wasn't playing when they won or wasn't even competing for titles anymore.
Olajuwon and Drexler got their 2 while Jordan was out the league, Tim Duncan and David Robinson was also after Jordan retired, Shaq and Kobe didn't win until Jordan had retired.
Bird, Magic, and Isiah all won in the 80s while Jordan's era was in the 90s.
Nick Wrong's entire list of players that ate in the Jordan Era is defunct.
@@Mr10before9 Facts! Nick Wrong dumb as hell
@@Mr10before9 nobody asked jordan to retire son.
@@wh3resmycar what does that have to do with anything? Him being asked or not asked doesn't alter that it can't be said players won during his era, if he wasn't even playing when that happened.
@@Mr10before9 why are we talking about eras? its too many excuses in your entire argument. his career started in the 80’s yes or no? so that counts lol you cant pick and choose the decade you want and quitting is essentially ceding the title as he even admitted he was exhausted.
This Lebron Mj Debate was over the second LeBron took his Talents to South Beach he had to form a Super Team with 4 of the top Players in the East in a Eastern Conference that was Dog 💩 Weak to become King its a Joke.
4 or 5 hall of famers on that Miami heat super team you meant yeah that’s all labron do is cheat his way to the top with his arrogance behavior
@@kingpete3160 So what was lebron supposed to do? Stay in Cleveland and keep losing bc Cleveland wasn't building around him.
@@djthakid91 that’s no excuse other players did it who wasn’t jealous of others they made role players better
@@djthakid91 staying in Cleveland who couldn’t accomplish much because he doesn’t bring a impact to Lebron is like every other big player power house dude that loves to score 28,000 points by dunks or 3 ft away from the rim because he’s not a very good mid range shooter
@@djthakid91 how many great players made the team they had and stuck with them win 🏆 plenty it’s easy for jordan to have shaq ,pippen /steph / and wade and form a super team and win dub because all of them can score 20 points by their selves lol 😂 and win numerous of championships that’s easy
Can you imagine a team of Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman being favored to win the NBA Finals and MISSING THE PLAYOFFS, like how a team of LeBron James, Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook did this past season? Not only did the 2021-22 Lakers miss the playoffs, they nearly lost 50 games and looked horrible for most of the season.
This Michael Jordan-LeBron James conversation ended when a team featuring Bron James, Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook literally were getting their asses kicked every night, and commonly were losing by 20-plus points to even bad teams.
Doug is doing the exact same thing Nick is talking about: he's spinning narrative and ignoring facts. When lebron beats Raptors year after year and beat 60 win Hawks, people say those were cupcake teams. But when Jordan beat Cavs or Hawks, Doug says they were really good.
That cavalier team with Ron Harper Craig ehlo would beat that raptors team but okay we splitting hairs
Are you saying they were bad?
Sorry but everyone knew that Hawks team was fraudulent.
@@christopherbrown1391 that's narrative spin, not factual. The weakest team Jordan beat is 10 times tougher than anybody Lebron's faced.
@@achoo9165 So Portland Trailblazers are 10 times tougher than SAS, OKC with 3 future MVPs or 73 win Warriors?
I think that's part of the point though. Doug just contextualized everything for Jordan. With Lebron people dont contextualize anything.
Lmao which was Nick's entire point. And people miss that because they choose to do it. I have never once seen nick say any of those things aside from the pippen thing a few times. And it's because he tries to be subjective.
Well let's contextualize for lebron: if durant doesn't go to the warriors, or kyrie and Kevin don't get injured, he has 7 rings
Lol what’s ya point? Nick makes his naratives to suit lebron
@@JahleelX-xx9wd are you using subscribe correctly? I think people who like Lebron line the hype, the tweets etc. He may very well be the most talented player of all time, but here is the thing when jordans team was good enough to compete with elite teams they didn't lose. This is a Peyton Manning vs Brady debate but no one feels like it's the other way in the other sport
@@brentt8940 the only narrative for Jordan is 6-0. Nobody ever mentions on the court proficiency. He was a great scorer in an era where great guard scoring wasn't really the norm. In his era, you also couldn't guard spaces to cut him off due to "illegal defense," so it was one-on-one every time. That's a murder. Nobody can guard Mj.
Larry bird called him Jesus Christ in sneakers I think he earned Larry's respect
Larry Bird beat his ass, not the other way around. Also more Muslims & Buddhist walk the earth than Christians so Jesus can walk back into the pool he walked on.
Yeah he call him that after he beat Mj common knowledge as for the Jesus bit all you telling me is heavens gate is better than Jones town lol. Food for thought
Doug, you cannot explain facts to a delusional parade and expect them to acknowledge genuine goat status... leave them to their soft fairytales, those of us who witnessed the “rare air” unanimously know who the goat is!😉
Do you guys understand Bird made that comment talking about Michael Jordan as a player aka an individual or you guys are just going to pretend you do not understand English.
@@grichkatayou7558 dude are you slow? I was merely pointing out bird respected mj even if mj didn't beat him. Good day
The flipside of Nick's argument is to show the pictures of all the great players who never got a ring because of the Bulls.
Jordan never lost in the finals lebum lost 6 times Kobe only lost 2 times
that means MJ lost before finals, it is better than lost in finals?
No he just got swept in the first round
@elliotx preach it baby
@elliotx Bron didn’t sniff the playoffs until his third year. Matter of fact, Melo deserved ROY
Kobe had Shaq. Shaq was FMVP on their 3 titles and league MVP once. Says a lot about who was the man. Kobe doesnt even belong in GOAT discussion. That needs to stop
This is the same guy that said Kawhi was better than Lebron. You need to address that first bruh
Nick always forgets to mention Jordan against those great Celtic teams in multiple first rounds and LeBron against those barely or just under .500 Washington Wizard teams.
I just had this same argument with Lebronsters on Nick Wright’s IG account. Those people are highly delusional and just flat out stubbornly ignorant
Nicks argument is much better than this bald guys argument
No it’s not. Lol
Lebron is bald
MJ never consistently shrank and folded in big championships moments like Lebron lololol Are you ppl serious?? The 2011 finals alone disqualifies him....4 straight 4th quarters literally avoiding the ball in the crunch ....With a super team t hff at includes the 3rd greatest shooting guard of all time...Like I said GTFOH....The second Jordan played with another all star (pippen) he never then didnt when the title in under 7 games with two separate three-peats in 8yrs and all 6 finals MVPs not to mention the other two yrs out of those 8 he didn't win... he was retired....Jeezus you fucks are delusional
Both arguments are weak.. Biggest mistake analysts make when debating the goat is bringing up team accomplishments.. Too many variables at play that make it impossible.. Difference in eras and way the game was called back then compared to now is a main one.. When we're talking about who the better player is.. It should be OK... What can this guy do better than that guy when it comes to basketball... That being said.. I can think of a significant amount of things Jordan can do better than lebron, not much that lebron can do better than Jordan.. The eye test is how you decide who the best is.. Team accomplishments is not how you decide this.. It's dumb.
Ya if you're a biased bronsexual with a tunnel vision. 😂😂😂 nick is the biggest bronsexuals and his arguments make no fuken sense.
Nothing Lebron has done matters. The NBA died after the Lakers 3-peat. The NBA no longer plays defense, has no grit, is full of divas and selfish punks who form super teams and cheat their way to a ring. Put Lebron on the Cavs in the early 90s and let's see how he does. Sad.
preach! this is so true
Why are you here then?
The only defense you ever played is on CZcams.
AnObviousUsername I didn’t bother to read your comment because I know I’m right and you’re wrong... have a nice day
Daddy P.H.A.T. Saxxx NBA is a sellout to the communist Chinese... wake up
Even if you are a lebron fan its hard to argue with what he said. Well put.🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
Can’t be mad at nick, he’s just a Inexperienced kid.
Nick doesn't have anyone to keep him in check, since CCd departure. CCs huge ego was the only thing that kept Nick in his little corner.
Dude in late 30s 40 no kid
Nick's a prick. That's just his personality.
He still talk a fact with data 😂😂😂
@@idlanier752 Data or bullet points? Lol!
It’s funny how they forget to talk about the fact that there was the big 3 in Boston that’s why he had to go to Miami
I kno right and it’s funny how mj was knocked out playoffs first round 7 years straight
He’s also acting like the Cavs wasn’t the bulls when they were a joke lol
They were old bro.. Lasted 1or2 more years he was 26..lol. Stop it
Big 4** rondo was like the most important player he’s the PG for crying out loud.
Youngest person of that big 3 was I believe 31. It was people at the end of thier primes knowing how to play together that’s why they only had 1 title, bodies couldn’t keep up. The first modern day superteam was Miami. 1 top guy in the East teamed with 2 of the top 6 in the East as well
But u don’t want to contextualize LeBron’s finals circumstances when bringing up his numbers lol ahahaha ...
🤣
What's to comtexualize about getting sweaped in finals series with 2 all stars on your team?
Jared Jones You really don’t know basketball dude the Cavs did not get swept(you can’t spell either) when kyrie was there
@@jaredjones4804 Want to bring up the Warriors or not really?
@@jaredjones4804 Hey, here is a challenge for you...Other than Lebron, Name the players that were on the 2016 All-Stars Team that were also on the 2016 Cleveland Championship team????? I'll wait!
Nick’s ego is bigger then his head. Lol 😂 every fact or statement he said was when Michael was not in his prime.
Doug you are right my friend. Michael is the goat. Lebron is an all time amazing player. Top 3 of all time. But MJ is unique no one compared to him period.
MJ won though. You can’t have it both ways. Nick actually has a few good points.
So anything outside of the 6 years doesn't count? Funny...is MJs career a buffet? You pick what you like...and leave the rest out? Yet on the other side ppl still count LBJ losing the finals in 07 at age 22 with 4 bums vs 3 or so HoF team, or vs 4-5 HoF players GSW, with injured costars.
Ive been watching the NBA since 87. Jordan is the best player Ive ever seen and I'm not a Jordan fan. Im a Lakers fan and Magic is my favorite player. It is what it is. 99% of the people that say Lebron is the goat never saw Jordan play including Nick Wright.
Nick says after the pistons, Doug proceeds to name all teams prior to the pistons 😂. Then try’s to diminish the East when lebron was there with no context after saying nick did that
Right he started talking about 80s teams and I'm like you mean when Jordan couldn't win and was concidered a loser??. Talks about the great 57 wins cavs team jordan beat but nothing about the 60 win hawks in 2015. Those all time cetics team jordan got swept by. How about the spurs dynasty with 4 HOF players the heat battled against. Or the thunder with 3 future mvps 💀💀💀
@@93niggaplease right Doug was all about context Till he had to make his points Lmaoo
@@93niggaplease the 57 cavs were better than the bulls reg season though and were favorites the 2015 hawks didn't have any great players. Think about it cavs swept the hawks but lost to the 60 win warrior team with nearly the same roster lineup teams in the east are generally not as good as the western teams
Dude he was talking about the 76ers with Barkley which was post pistons back to back
@@93niggaplease that Hawks squad was only great for ONE season. I would know because I'm from Atlanta (despite being a Lakers fan for 30 years).
The Hawks were trash in 2014 and mediocre in 2016 which not only proves how weak the East had been, but also that the 2015 season for the Hawks was an anomaly.
The Cavs were playoff contenders during that decade and had some very good years.
You tell them Gottlieb, I'm tired of ignorant people comparing lebron to MJ, just blasphemy
You wasn’t old enough to see Jordan
Nick is proof positive that you can make an argument for absolutely anything. This is the same logic that people used to say the world is flat…
He spoke facts
@@dadillonful 6 Finals losses. LeChoked in 2011. No rings until he sold out to Miami. All facts.
Thank you Doug. I appreciate that you operate in reality. Nick Wright is either an employee of Lebron or his significant other.
Speak the truth! I'm 25 and even I have to give it to jordon.
Same here
You're a smart guy unlike annoying Nick Wrong
That's a lie im 40 everybody knows LeBron better then mj.
@@realasitget3552 I’m 25 n that’s not true
That a lie i watch mj play and lebron play mj always had problems tryin to check bigger and taller players then him. Magic dominated him in games they played even game 1 of the Finals. Can tell America what the Bulls coach did took mj off magic and put Pippen on him why cause mj was shorter and not long enough to guard magic. Lebron is the same height as magic so what you think he'll do. Yall need understand basketball. Mj was great in his time cause he was more athletic then other players now these players are more athletic and skilled then the past. People back then fouling hard is not a skill yall think Charles Oakley on K.D level hell nall. Go look back then it was alot of white guys who were not athletic like that. And back then it was lot more white starters now that has reverse they mainly come off the bench in todays NBA. Why cause black players are more skill then ever now. Just look at Olympic teams now that represent USA mostly are black players. Where as in 70s and 80s it was alot white college players playing in Olympics.
LeBron James wears who's number again? LeBron James Remix who's movie again? The only thing he can do is keep playing BAll until his hair falls out so he can be bold like mike
Hahahahaha
You sound like you in the 1st grade
@Me Too you’re in denial about Lebron’s lack of mental toughness and unwillingness to play his size. It’s not all about physical specs.
Haha well said. Lebrons been chasing the goat all his life
And he could invest in prison like Jordan. To incarcerate more black men
PIPPEN WASNT A STARTER FOR THE BULLS UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF HIS SECOND SEASON GOODBYE BRAD SELLERS
Brad got 1 ring and was gone
Brad didn't get a ring because he wasn't on the roster when they won the first championship.
@@djbhe you’re right he was traded before that I last remember seeing him when Jordan hit that shot against Cleveland
@@bobbymarsh1
Exactly and Pippen wasn't ready yet as a championship ball player. I grew up on the southside of Chicago and I know my stuff.
@@djbhe south side is the best side! I too am from the south side dirty 130 and the wild 100’s
"Everybody ate on Jordan's watch" --
- Lists Bird, Kareem and Magic who won their rings on HOF-filled rosters while MJ was a solo act on the Bulls (forgot the likes of Mchale, Worthy, etc.).
- Lists Kobe and Shaq, and Duncan and Robinson (I'm a Spurs fan) who won their rings after MJ's second retirement.
- Lists Hakeem and Drexler who won in the lost baseball years.
- Forgot about Isiah's teammates.
It's almost like he was making the case FOR Jordan.
Thank you Doug! Bravo!
Does he ever address the points? LMAO
MJ never consistently shrank and folded in big championships moments like Lebron lololol Are you ppl serious?? The 2011 finals alone disqualifies him....4 straight 4th quarters literally avoiding the ball in the crunch ....With a super team t hff at includes the 3rd greatest shooting guard of all time...Like I said GTFOH....The second Jordan played with another all star (pippen) he never then didnt when the title in under 7 games with two separate three-peats in 8yrs and all 6 finals MVPs not to mention the other two yrs out of those 8 he didn't win... he was retired....Jeezus you fucks are delusional
@@drewnichols1685 when Jordan didnt play in 1994, the Bulls won 50+ games and made the playoffs lol. He had a squad.
IF Lebron wins 6 rings, his 6 losses will be a dumbass argument because those are 6 more Finals than Jordan ever made it to 😂
@@23jakesmith23 i mean yeah but he hasnt done that, if he does you have an argument tho
Jordans team that won 54 games with out him also won three chips in a row with him and when he came back they won another 3 so basically they were unbeatable with him
@@drewnichols1685 Jordan is the luckiest scorer ever. Jordan, pippen, and jackson are the greatest player ever!!! Jordan by himself is a superb scorer. His game's not big enough for lebron. When his team's great, he's worth 2 playoff rounds. Lebrons worth 4 playoff rounds. Btw, jordan played 15 years, not 6😂😂😂😂😂. If all you can highlight is 6 years out of 15, thatsa problem
For me, it really just comes down to shooting ability (and of course, you can argue a whole bunch other metrics; data, play style, level of comp, ability of players, PER, eras, etc etc etc..) but I think, if you're going to do this goat debate and compare the two- it really comes down to which guy could shoot better, because that's the most fundamental thing about this game: shooting.
So who can shoot better between the two? The answer is obvious. Let's reduce it down even further; if you switched out a prime James for a prime Jordan and put Jordan on the 2011 and 2014 Heat teams, are the heat losing those series? Keep in mind, in this thought experiment that EVERYTHING else is the same... Are you really going to tell me Jordan is losing those finals??
I think we all know what the answer is. Obviously Jordan is winning those finals because he could SHOOT. And it's really as simple as that.
The one thing is that literally every point he brought up is comparing Jordan against absolute perfection and not LeBron. In everything he brought up jordan is better. LeBron didn't even make the playoffs the first two years, LeBron never beat Dirk in a playoff series, LeBron couldn't beat multiple super teams while forming super teams himself, EVERYBODY ATE IN LEBRONS ERA.
Context is only applied for Jordan, that's the issue with these debates. There's a context for Lebron's "knocks" too but that doesn't matter because Doug thinks MJ is the GOAT.
Nick is SO DAMN TRASH and people actually believe this guy.
Nick: "I'm not even including the years Michael retired."
Um yes you did and you're also being disingenuous. Hakeem won his first title AFTER MJ retired. He won the second (with Clyde) AFTER MJ returned the final 17 games of the seasons. Jordan was RETIRED in 1999 and was 38-40 when Duncan/Robinson won again in 2003 and when Shaq/Kobe won in 2002.
I hope Broussard and the crew corrected that guy for speaking such garbage. It's one thing to make an argument for LBJ as the GOAT, however, it's another to LIE or bend the facts to do so. This is why I will NEVER respect Nick Wright's opinion when it comes to LeBron. He has absolutely no objectivity and LIES a lot to make his points!
MJ is the GOAT
tell us what is the context for lebron who had to first build a super team to win yall kill KD but dont want to do the same for lebron Yall funny
Ps: lebron is amazing but he just can never be G.O.A.T. MJ is the only one
@@atlien1988 did he play those years or not? The only Jordan argument is his "dominance", and if you remove the wizards years, and even the season he broke his foot, there's 12 years left. Won half of that. Not very dominant if your peak is a 6 season run, and you need a vacation in the middle to sustain... Lebron been killing. At the same age, Mike only has 3 rings to Brons 4. Let Lebron play till hes 41, then we can know for real,But as of right now, Bron is ahead imo. If it end today, mike would be ahead. AD resigns, its Goat James lol🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@bolovr4014 um, mike didnt win any rings, until he had a super team....
I believe when you’re such a shameless fanboy, you can’t expect anyone to take anything you say seriously and you completely take yourself out of a realistic, objective debate.
Lmao and Nick Wright isn’t a huge Lebron fanboy? You’re a joke
@@josephmitchell6932 ? I was referring to Nick Wright. I thought it was obvious since the video title is about Nick Wright.
@@bretviola6871 my bad, thought you were talking about Gottlieb lol I mean he’s not much better, none of them on tv are very objective
@@josephmitchell6932 All good! Yeah, you’re right about that. Nick Wright and Shannon Sharpe think LeBron could take a dump on school children and it’d be the most glorious turd that was ever shat! Lol!
Scottie lost with Jordan in the line up. He was regarded as soft. He wasn’t an allstar until his fifth season. He only averaged about 7 points a game his first year
Thank you for posting this. It's so frustrating hearing Nick Wrong go off about anything, worse is seeing all the nonsense posted on social media off the back of it. Nick takes a few numbers, strips any and all context that doesn't suit his narrative, and then acts as if what he's saying is the only thing something can be, and all the other fanboys follow along as if they know what they're talking about. It's maddening for anyone who cares about NBA history, or just recording history accurately in general.
Yep. Generation Metrics. 🤦🏽
Calling lbj the goat feels like sympathy imo.
Or he just the GOAT
@@mrsmiw sympathy
Overrated MJ!!!
@@multyz1 😅🤣 sure
@@mrsmiw MJ never consistently shrank and folded in big championships moments like Lebron lololol Are you ppl serious?? The 2011 finals alone disqualifies him....4 straight 4th quarters literally avoiding the ball in the crunch ....With a super team t hff at includes the 3rd greatest shooting guard of all time...Like I said GTFOH....The second Jordan played with another all star (pippen) he never then didnt when the title in under 7 games with two separate three-peats in 8yrs and all 6 finals MVPs not to mention the other two yrs out of those 8 he didn't win... he was retired....Jeezus you fucks are delusional
He’s making Nick Wright’s point. “Jordan always lost because the team wasn’t good but if lebron loses, it’s because he wasn’t good enough” is basically the Jordan Stan argument
Yes L3-6-1on lost to the Mavs because he wasn't good enough
jordan is not a ring chaser.
@@genaldgalicia5834 Jordan didn’t have to, he was drafted by a good organization with a HOF GM who hired a HOF coach. The Cavs, on the other hand, didn’t trade for prime Amare to keep JJ Hickson. I hope you’re smarter than making this lazy argument.
@@zobe70why make a dumb comment? There’a a million good arguments to make for Jordan being the 🐐 but you went the Skip Bayless route. I don’t know you but I feel like your better than this.
@@jihadjoe90 Phil wasn't a HOF coach when he was hire. Just a fyi.
I don't remember anyone ever having to stump this hard to convince everyone that MJ was the GOAT. They didn't need to.
Expecting nick wrong to be honest or use context is like expecting to see pigs fly... it'll never happen.
Doug is absolutely right. Nick should be taken off the air, he sells narratives not facts
Thought you were that intelligent. What narrative do MJfreaks put out there. My daughter asked me if MJ only played in the NBA for only 6 years. Lol
They also present FACTS just in their own way and leave out other stuff. Yeah it's just Nick. Lol boi you stupid
@@multyz1 your daughter? 🤦🏽♂️
Doug preach on bro. He spit straight facts
MJfreaks always want someone taken off the air because they don't see him as the GOAT. I like MJ, LeBron and Kobe but I don't see MJ as the GOAT and it's okay. Some folks take it too serious as if we all should have the same opinion. MJ is the second greatest on my list.
If LeBron had run away from the NBA for 2 years, MJfreaks would've said he was weak mentally.
MJ would have cracked if he had to deal with what Bron had to deal with in a single year.
Yall sound dumb, jordan was getting beat up, the league hanged so why would lebron take a year off in this soft ass league. Still only 4 chips in 17 years gtfo
The man’s father died and Bron fans are using that against him. Absurd.
PETEY HE CRACKED!!
@@Bannedconfidential MJ didn't walk off because of that, so no extra excuses. I lost my dad two months ago unexpectedly so I know how it feels.
I used to take the time and try to explain these same points to lebron fans, but the major problem with lebron fans especially Nick Wright is they know they lose their argument if you actually use context. So they don't want to hear it!!! A lot of them already know what the context is and are just hoping nobody takes the time to point out the context and even if they do, my voice is louder than yours, we can be dismissive to your context and still keep our argument, that's what they are holding on to.
Nicks “Won Title Under Jordan’s Watch” picture is hilarious🤣! Shaq, Kobe, Robinson, Duncan, Hakeem and Drexler all won titles when Michael was retired. Either the first retirement or the second one. Bird, Kareem, Magic and Isaiah all won titles when Jordan was still a child in the league and didn’t have a squad yet. Bird, Kareem, Magic and Isaiah’s teams were fully loaded championship caliber teams🤣. Totally different story once Jordan got his own squad.
Indeed
Did he say anything that wasnt a true fact tho?Be real.
Jordan still the GOAT but 99% of these people get there talking points from Skip Bayless. They lack any objectivity when discussing Jordan and critque Lebron down to his socks.
Let me repeat JORDAN IS STILL THE GOAT but lets be honest about his career with the same energy we have for Lebron.
@@jasonu3741 To me it's a opinion never ending story.Just like my uncle says the big o is the best player he ever seen.He seen earl the pear n college but loves big o.I could care less.Its just funny when lj beat gs.The day of the parade he finally released ok for doc.Then friday thru sunday he had a deal with IMAX to rerelease a 20 year doc.During finals. 2 times his last 2 finals wins.?
@@jasonu3741 and why he is the goat? 6 rings? So when i say McGee is better than Hakeem then u should accepted it right? Nick was saying this after Broussard said mike game has no weaknesses and thats bullshit. He cant shoot 3s. He doesnt have that drive to the rim and get foul calls like Lebron freight train charge. He cant defend Magic or Hakeem while Lebron could guard all 5 positions. Why when Nick put up some objective facts, then he is a clown but when guy like Broussard put up subjective cases about mike then he aint a clown?
Mike DPOY should be Hakeem. Hakeem got robbed. And Lebron 2013 should be a DPOY but he got robbed by Marc Gasol who only a 2nd defensive team.
Lebron should have got like 7 MVPs at least right now and Kobe should have gotten like 4 or 5.
Its okay if mike is ur goat but when u keep using subjective things to ur liking then u are just nitpicking
No but context matters half of those players that won on Jordan’s watch... was when he was 39 and 40 years old unretired for the second time just trying to get ownership in the league. Duncan, Shaq Kobe never won while he was actually Jordan. That Jordan was old let’s see how many players get titles when Lebron is 39/40 years old. I suspect plenty will.
Jordan bested a 60 win Shaq and Penny team. Hakeem one the title when Jordan played less than 30 regular season games coming from baseball and his body wasn’t ready. But give him that L the same way Lebron doesn’t get to wave off 07 Spurs or any of KD GST title teams that swept him or gentlemen swept him.
Pippen averaged 7 pts in the playoffs wow he really needed that to get out of the first round. Jordan needed Pippen yet only Jordan won a title between him and Lebron being the only all star on the team (98). Jordan won every other title with ONLY one other all star when Lebron always needed two. (Except 2020).
Those one HOF teams was during a watered down league with stars spread out. He still beat more 50 win teams and 60 win teams then Lebron and has played LESS years. The east was simply better with higher caliber teams that had ONE HOF. He also beat Detroit when IT was 29, Dumars was 27 and Rodman was DPOY. That team was essentially GST with several players being former all stars and he took them 7 games their last title win. (Didn’t have Pippen for game 7=migraine game).
Just like 4-6 deserves context so does Nick’s stupid stats. Wade, literally carried a team to the title before Lebron and Pippen couldn’t get out of the West or East when he didn’t have Jordan even with loaded teams (HOU/POR).
@@artiekusumawidya2545 Jordan is the GOAT because
1x Defensive Player of the Year
5x Regular season MvPs
6x Finals MvPs
6x Championships
10x Scoring titles
14x All Star
3x All Star MvP
11x All NBA
9x All NBA First Team Defense
2x Dunk Champ
Highest PER in NBA history
The list goes on for Jordan and its why hes currently the GOAT while Lebron is a close second
There is Plenty of reason for Jordan to be the GOAT, whats stupid is that people use Lebron having 6 Finals loses as a black mark as if somehow its better to miss the playoffs or lose in the first round than it is to lose in the finals... This is what Stupid Jordan fans do.
Like when Nick said Giannis now has a better playoff career than Jimmy Butler since Jimmy is 0-1 in the finals and Giannis has 0 finals loses (pointing out the stupidity of the Lebron 3-6 mafia critics) and what you said about Lebron Guarding, Jordan was a better on ball defender for his position, lebron is a better Zone defender because of his blocks don't start arguing like the Jordan fans you disagree with try objectivity. I myself am a Lebron fan and think he still has time to solidify himself as the GOAT however he is not there yet... its called being obejctive you should try it.
He had kyle Macy and dave corzine. How could mj win with that?!? People who didnt watch, dont know jack.
And Cocaine addicts as Teammates. Lol
@@primetimecollective they were lol..and they were aweful players. Oakley was garbage in Chicago...also took pip 4 years to be decent.
Right but people who don’t know basketball don’t know that...they even act like Phil Jackson was a hall of fame coach b4 he even coached the bulls 😂
LeBron carried worse to 2 Finals. Stop it. The media awarded MJ as “GOAT” before he even won a chip! Go rewatch those old 1989-1990 NBA dvds on Jordan. They were sucking him off back then also.
@@kingshabazz1310 Worse then a team full of cocaine addicts? Yeah okay
Thats one of the best breakdowns I've heard so far
By Nick Wrights logic. Look at all the people who won championship while Lebron played. 2003 Spurs, 2004 Pistons, 2005 Spurs, 2006 Heat with D-wade and Shaq, 2007 spurs, 2008 Celtics, 2009 Lakers, 2010 Lakers, 2011 Mavericks beat Lebrons super tram, 2012 Heat, 2013 Heat, 2014 Spurs, 2015 Warriors, 2016 Cavaliers, 2017 warriors, 2018 warriors, 2019 raptors, and 2020 Lakers. You've got Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginóbili, Kobe and Shaq, Dirk and Jason kid, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Kevin Durant, Dwayne Wade and Shaq before Lebron joined the heat, Kawhi Leonard. How can Nick Wright sit there and make this argument. Taking out of context that the early Celtics team Jordan lost to in the playoffs was loaded with 4 Hall of Famers, Detroit Pistons were bullying the entire league. Larry Bird even said that wasnt Michael Jordan out there. That was God Disguised as Michael Jordan. Nick Wright has lost all credibility after making this argument.
He said nick is not old enough but he is reading what he is about to say 😂😂😂😂😂😂
that’s because he’s reading his notes most podcasters do this
Why don't you challenge nick face to face instead of debating him talking to yourself when he's not there to defend himself. Weak!
What Nick's intentionally leaving out about those whom he says won 🏆 on MJ's watch were winners before MJ started winning and after he'd won 🏆 and moved on!
What I love is how LBs opponents are propped up to excuse losses and teammates are lowered to raise the volume of pressure. His opponents were tougher than Jazz, Trailblazers, Magic, Pistons, etc. His teams were riddled with injuries, other excuses.
In the very next breath, your arguing how much better the talent is presently. Guys in the past we journeymen at best. Arguing about HOF status of teammates as if that coincides with one particular season, and not the entirety of one's career.
MJ is the best to play it. His style, grace, skills, movements, etc have been imitated since his retirement. MJ has been quality control standard by which EVERY player has ascribed to. MJ is the "Ghost" that LBJ won't catch. MJ is the reason that man wears #23.
MJ doesn't just have 6 rings, he went 3x twice!! Not 2-4 here, 1-3 there, get 1 more here, oh gotta figure the next ones out. MJ didn't show up to press conference with a cast on his hand or other props for excuses after losses. He was shooting in the gym. Y'all weren't with him shooting in the gym.
I could entertain a conversation, not debate, if someone can take simple ownership of the underachievement in Miami. Just own that. Cause your boy LBJ was convinced that was his easy ride to greatness. "Not 1, not 2, not 3,....." I can remember him saying to hype everyone about his impending success. But what happened?
Doubt anyone will admit to failure because that would be automatic elimination from GOAT talk. Y'all gotta include the 2 wins to be relevant. You want credit for making it to the job site, but not finishing your work. Imagine that. Say you can make it with trash for help, but shouldn't expect you to finish. Your mere presence should be a testament to your greatness? Nah fam, getting it done with those odds is the precedent.
If, out of 17 years - you dragged trash to the finals only 4 times and won this 4 chips, I'll be arguing with you. That's because MJ fans have prayed for someone to pick up the mantle. It's good for the game. But nobody is going to stand by and watch it be handed over to the undeserving. Context and narratives isn't going to change the lack of merit and overwhelming amount of failures.
Stuffing stats and analytics don't change performance results. By that standard Westbrook should have participation rings for those 3 "goat" seasons avg a 3dub, right? Foh.
the 2020 heat were tough?
lebron choked in the finals 2011
how does a trash team win 50 games?
So... Doug is making Nick’s argument for him? I’m confused.
Nah he saying east was weak with lebron and strong with Jordan
Only a low iq bum would say that.
You might wanna get your ears checked my man
We didn’t watch the same video pal
Skip bayless 2.0
Nick didn’t lie once....I still have Jordan as the Goat but I remember in the 90s they were my favorite team because they were far and away the best team in the league.....they were like the warriors of 15-17 except every single year and with the goat on their team and a HOF coach. People who say Lebron is the goat can absolutely make the case.
Tim hardaway a hof player so is zo. Mullen mark jackson reggie hof. No nick lied. On jordans watch is after his first championship. Intellectual manipulation. Btw im over 32
He starts whining everytime his points are proven wrong. U cant b below 500 in da finals b da goat period
@@laurencewilliams6676 you’re gonna have to translate that unreadable garbage into English if you want a response
U understood exactly what i was saying. U hav no response bc ur lying. To being a prisoner of the moment. Riding nick and lebron.
Phil Jackson is obviously a HOF coach but is he REALLY a great mastermind? He never had to prove ANYTHING. He took over the Bulls when they were about to break through and then took over another dynasty team with Shaq and Kobe. I mean I need to see the guy coach a team with a 5-8 seed talent level and see what he can draw out of a group like that. But that's a debate for another day.
Nick's arguments have never made sense though. As just one example, he makes a focal point out of the fact Jordan never beat Bird in the playoffs. This is just silly. First of all, he only faced him twice. Once, as Doug mentioned when he averaged 44 ppg and nearly single handedly beat the 86 Celtics which had 4 HOFers in their prime along with a HOFer in Bill Walton off the bench. NOBODY was beating that team. But just to show how impressive Jordan was during the series, Bird said he was God disguised as Michael Jordan. Then a year later he lost to essentially the same Celtics team but this time he only avg'd 36.
Jordan's fellow starters during those two series were Charles Oakley, Orlando Woolridge, Gene Banks, Dave Corzine, and John Paxson. NOBODY, not Jordan, not Magic, not Kareem, not Lebron, not Wilt Chamberlain could've beaten those Celtics with the 4 HOFers with that Bulls roster. For Nick to make this a knock against Jordan is just asinine on it's face. Hard to take that guy seriously.
Can someone point out how many three seeds That MJ lost to? I think MJ beat every lower seed the team that he ever played. And he's beating number one seeds in the finals on more than one occasion
MJ never lost to any team that didn't have a better regular season record than the Bulls. Bulls have home court advantage, they won!!!
cant say.. but heres a stat that differentiates the two in terms of winning against quality opponents:
Lebron played 7 60-win teams with a record of 3-4 and played 19 50-win teams with a record of 10-9. MJ played 9 60-win teams and won 7-2. Played 27 50-win teams and won 20-7
@@rossejera1661 I was being sarcastic but never Was the answer. Mj played more good teams in the playoffs and in the finals always played against them number 1 seed I think except the Lakers in his first run. All the finals years the others team had the mvp or runner up(bec he was mvp) every year except the sonics year where gp was like 6th in mvp voting
Imagine if Lebron was faithful, never gave up and worked hard for 9 years to finally win a Championship for the Cavs then won a 3 peat. Mom gets murdered, goes to an entirely different SPORT, comes back and wins ANOTHER 3 peat. All 6 Finals MVP. One team, one jersey. Never allowed a game 7. No losses. Never froze. 10 scoring titles. 9 time defensives. Hit the highest peak in the history of the game. Vast majority of the world acknowledges him as the GOAT. Then a new kid comes along, loses 6 finals. Hops around team to team to barely win 4. Has played longer than the other guy so he stacks stats, but since he's relevant now, people mention him in the GOAT conversation. Yea... exactly. MJ is GOAT.
🔥 🔥 🔥 Yes. Exactly.
You get an F for this rebuttal. Doug has been scrambling since Kawhi lost.
Thank u DOUG GOTTLIEB for teaching shannon sharpe,nick wright, Kendrick Perkins and Chris brussard how to tell the truth.
And nick wasn't?
Lol the east in the 90's was terrible... right the Knicks ,pacers ,magic , cavs, and the heat were terrible right 😂😂 please
Those teams would run roughshod over today's NBA, save for about 3 teams.
Always makes me laugh that lebron depletes the east and gets credit for having the courage to team up with other great players to win.... yet kd does the exact same thing but does it better and he all of a sudden is soft and sensitive lebron has glaring weaknesses in his game anything lebron can kd can you can't say the same in reverse
LeBron lovers love to say Michael never faced a team as good as Warriors in his career. In his second year MJ with no all stars on his team(Just like LeBron in 2018) got swept by the Celtics. LeBron also got swept in the finals in 2018 by Golden state team. Boston team was as good as Golden state .LeBron fans are truly blind lol🤣🤣🤣🤣
What are you talking about?
Bron was swept in the finals... MJ was mopped while still in the infant stages of the playoffs.
@@mobetta2092
Jordan never had another all star until Pippen. Lebrons played with 40 all stars in his career lmao.
And Jordan still won 6 in a row with less talent.
@@MichaelP-ke1tm MJ also won 6 on a row against less talent (let's see, in 1991 Magic was defended by Scottie... 1992 Drexler who was essentially PG13 of his day was defended by MJ...1993 Barkley was defended by Pippen and Horace...1996 Shawn Kemp was defended by Pippen and Rodman...1997 & 1998 Karl Malone was defended by Rodman with help from Pippen. This left Jordan with Byron Scott, Dan Majrle, Johnny Hawkins, and twice with Jeff Hornacek.
This 2020 finals was played at one of the lowest level I've remember seen. This Miami team would be a first round exit in the 90s or 80s. People keep saying players now are more talented than ever but...outside of Butler, if you replaced any 2020 Miami player with stars like Barkley, Malone, Payton, Drexler, Olajuwon, etc, Miami would beat that Lakers team.
Even players like Alex English, Dr. J, are far more talented than almost anybody in todays league.
Of course, if you drop Jordan today, there's no contest on who would be the best player of the league.
Nick loves stats beat 6-0 compared to lebrons 4-8 😂
4-6*.. you bron haters are legit idiots
That’s one stat compared to dozens. It’s important but it’s not everything
Nick called jordan a loser lol wow him and perkins should be ban from talking.
Doug been checking Nick Wrong for the past 3 years! I’m so happy about that!
Am I the only one that skip past Nick Wright's nonsense? He was born the same year MJ played as a rookie...he never saw prime MJ...if he did he would realize when Pip arrived with the bulls...he wasn't a starter...hell he was just another guy (him and Horace Grant) coming off the bench averaging 8 points...I'm not hating on Pip..this is just the facts...I'm pretty sure the bulls would have won the 1st round that year without him.....
Why Fox decided to give him a show is beyond me
Pippen didn’t average 20 points till year 4
Seems like he has some kind of secret grudge against MJ and Kobe.
God I hate Doug on every show and now he has a radio show smh
Thats because he speak FACTS . not a fan of lebron nor MJ . Lebron is the greatest player in this era but the GOAT . No. Only 3 players who can u debate whos the goat thats Mj/kareem and bill Russell .
@@dtechzsama you started good then, shyt yourself bro.what happened? 😂😂
He left out the 80's Bucks. Sidney Moncreif, Jr Bridgeman, Marques Johnson, Paul Pressey, Fred Brown, Terry Cummings. They were tough.
Nicknis a clown and has Klitch sports as his agents. A guy who never played a quartet or any sport at any level. Calculator pen pocket guy.
This take by Doug is one of the best breakdowns of this discussion I’ve heard. Well done
Pippen averaged 7.9 points a game his first year and 10 in the playoffs. Jordan averaged 36 ppg on 53% from the field that year in the playoffs . Yeah, Nick if was all Scottie that got him that first playoff series win.
Lebron’s first year in the league he had Carlos Boozer and Big Z who averaged 15 a game each. Boozer left and became a multiple All Star. Big Z was an All Star the year before Lebron got there. So I guess by Nick Wrights Jordan standards Lebron should have been able to go the finals with 2 guys that much better than young Scottie. Use an ounce of context for once, Nick
I didn't know offence alone win championships but ok
And Lebron got finals with that bullshit team, MJ dont, and without pipen no even pass first round. Thanks for your point that elevetes Lebron
@@cl503cammy exactly they discredit Scottie like he wasn’t making plays and he
Don’t have defensive ability.
@@capoc2320 No one discredits Scottie the way Lebron fans discredit every teammate Lebron has ever had. Even AD this year. This post was to show how ridiculous Nick sounds saying stuff out of context. Get a clue dude
@@cl503cammy So Scottie’s defense was the reason Jordan won his first playoff series? You know Jordan the guy who won DPOY that year? This post was talking about how ridiculous Nick’s take is. Thanks for showing us you know nothing about basketball
He actually used Jordan's Wizard years to make his case. GTFO
that don't count? was jordan a water boy with the Wizards?
That was part of his career tho. I’m mean we still give Kareem credit for 6th ring and he was 42. So when u play all ur stats should be considered.
Even with the Wizards years, he has the highest player productivity rating aka player efficiency rating of all time. They can factor it in, and Jordan is still the GOAT.
@@lionstigersbearsohmyanimal6741 lol kareem also has magic and other great players kareem trust me if kareem would had been kareem during that chip he would be looked at a lot differently
He played those years didnt he
Nick Wright doesn’t believe his own weak case. He simply likes the sound of his voice.
Thank you Doug. That's what u call putting proper perspective on things. I hate how this generation glorifies what they see without research or historical context.
Plus these soft rules. Everything a flagrant.