Electrolytic Production of Chlorates Using MMO Anodes
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- Building an electrolytic cell for the production of
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That's cool! I'll do that.
Happy new year to you too ✨
You should do salt and cook the hell out of it to make naclo4 then do a double displacement reaction with a solution of hot potassium chloride to yield kclo4 instead of the method you're doing that is more likely to only produce only kclo3
@@ziggyc3004 , you could also spend a few bucks and buy a kilo of NaClO3 and react it with KCl in a saturated, boiling aqueous solution to produce it. Though it's a bit faster, it's not anywhere near as efficient as this method.
To my knowledge if you start with naclo3 and displace with kcl. You get mainly kclo3. I'm talking about doing electrolysis of nac to produce naclo4 then doing the displacement to yield mainly kclo4. There is many reasons why it's a better option than kclo3. But as mentioned in the video kclo3 tends to be.... well unstable.
You are one hell of a slop bucket chemist. In 76' I took my master's in organic chem and went to work for Dow....enjoy your vids. Love your dog.
The slop bucket is the only way to go!
@@edgeeffect Amen!!
I found this funny, someone once told me that pictures of my lab were stolen from the DEA website :D . Slop Bucket is great.
@@seditt5146 Well, I kinda think the DEA is getting more "slop bucket" all the time.....along with the FDA.....thanks for the chuckle. We slop bucket chemists gotta stick together......... P.S. I spent time doing drug analysis for the police and highway patrol in my misspent youth!
@@tomnekuda3818 Hey man, they have to because the meth cooks they are chasing are about as slop bucket as it gets so they are never going to make advancements until they get into the mindset of the people they are after that's for sure.
It's all a long winded waste of time cat and mouse game at this point, no ones gonna win because chemistry is to diverse and you simply can not stop them all when the target compounds are so simple in structure.
If AvE and Codyslab had a baby, we get you. Not at all complaining. You have the voice and camera skills of AvE and the dry laugh of Cody. Something to be proud of.
I don't know what I'm more impressed with... You saying the breaking bad comment as I'm typing it, or your skills as a chemist! Both right up there!
Gotta say, what I'm sure many others have. Your videos are Excellent!! Useful, detailed, informative, helpful, and repeatable for the DIY'er.
A happy, healthy, prosperous 2020 to you and yours, EM. Thanks for all the work you put into your posts.
btw, I find you to be one funny dude.
I'm watching this again and have just noticed the Beautiful old blow torch in the background , Brilliant!! Keep up the good work Sir Robert of PA. x.
Happy New Year, keep the great content coming
Carbon arc gouging rods!! Oh the painful memories!
I've used a fuel tank repair putty to block the bottom of a MMO pipe and it worked perfectly within my chlorate cell with no discolouration and almost nill contamination. Used for weeks on end.
Hey ElementalMaker, thanks for the great video & especially for showing how you dried the end product. I've watched tonnes of videos and none of them showed that. I've made a few batches, I always use my oven, however I have a new method of using the oven on a low heat of about 150 degrees for 10-15 minutes and then leaving the product in an open container in a zip bag and another container with caustic soda in it, over a few days it dries the crystals up.
see ya in 2020 man... keep up the good work... lets finish the next year with at least 1M subs ;) happy new year
Gave you a shout out to this video on my first chlorate cell build and video. Great work!
Actually, I ended up putting your link in the description of two of my videos. Hope that's okay.
Neat! All the best for the new year.
Dood. I love your videos! You have a great sense of humor!
Great video!
Happy new year to you!
Watched a few of your vids. I have no frikkin' clue what you're doing. I just come for your laughter. A tonic.
Thank you!
That was great brother, looking forward to the next episode.👍👍
Well that was pretty sweet. That made a lot of crystals.
It's definitely a viable way to manufacture oxidizers for pretty low cost 👍
This was pretty cool. Thanks for sharing and HNY.
I'm loving your videos, you remind me of a red elvis loving, cannon firing friend I lost track of somewhere in the Cascades. Think he was headed for New Rock Vegas or something. Keep it up Bob.
I just discovered your channel and I love your work, I've always been absoulty fascinated with Chemistry and your video was really well put together, entertaining and truly informative, thank you so much and keep up the great work.
Totally agree. How many other channels begin with an enthusiastic intro: "TOOOODAY"? Some of the other DIY science/chemistry channels are so dull (in terms of bland presentation and apparent lack of enthusiasm of the 'presenter') that you'll either fall asleep or click elsewhere. I'll have entertaining and engaging personalities over 'sterile' and dull ones any day. I get a lot of laughs from Extractions and Ire, too.
Thank you both I'm glad your enjoying the videos 👍
Yet again, another great video Mr E MentalMaker. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your more Loud and very noisy videos
that have inspired many of us underlings in the past.
Stay Safe my dear American Cousins.
Super! Thank you very much!
Very cool! Love your videos
Thank you!
Potassium Chlorate mixed with red phosphor is known as Armstrong's mixture and if done with the right care, it can make a pretty good impact powder. Less sensitive than touch powder.
Really nice video.
I would suggest that you switch cathodes every 12 hrs, this way any KNO4 stuck to the - pole will fall off, other than that, pretty neat.
Might mention that this stuff is great for small scale flashes... but it's very untamed, reacts with stuff you wouldn't think it would, at times spontaneously.
But this is a viable option for those who want to have some on hand for perhaps the family picnic, or even at camp, easy to mix into a powerful flash powder, if not contained, almost everyone loves to see it "flash". Contained and half will love it, the other will hate it. Lol
God bless all free men who use common sense before action.
You could use the PC power supply if you care to use longer wires (especially CCA wire) the slight extra resistance drops some voltage and reduces the current flowing.
theres usualy a cpl 5v outs on a pc pwr supply and i believe most people stick with the 5v 2amp leads , Nice video .I bought 25lbs of kclo3 10 yrs ago at a fantastic price before i even knew you could build cells
Damn Tony your stocked up!
Great Job
One hour to early here in Austria, but happy new year😃
Hope it will stay long here on youtube.
One hour later a stranger from the states wishes you a Happy New Year. 🎊
Dude you are awesome
What a cute fluffball you got there :D
Why thank you! He is the goodest of doggos 😁
I have to say after running my cells and having made both chlorate and perchlorate, it really looks like you made perchlorate here. The length of time you ran that cell would also suggest that too.
If the crystals are more square in shape, that’s a good indication of perchlorate. However, it’s likely to have a certain percentage of chlorate as well so still wise to treat it as a chlorate regardless.
nope its almost impossible to make perchlorate by electrolysis of K chlorate unless the temperature is let to run at 80C and MMO is incapable of producing perchlorate.
Really enjoy your work. What is the difference between the crystal version and throwing the KCL pellets in a ball mill? Thanks!
1. Match heads also contain sulfur
2. Your filter paper probably turned brown because of either dehydration or oxydation of the cellulose
And dextrin binder (which also acts as a fuel). Dextrin is also a common binder in many star formulas.
@Rasmus never heard of sulfur free matches, but i could be wrong ofcourse. Wikipedia lists sulphur and antimony sulfide as common reducing agents for match heads
@Rasmus im from switzerland (or as the americans say, sweden). Hardly a developing country :D. Sulfur + potassium chlorate should be safe, its the phosphorus on the matchbox that allows for ignition by friction
However, phosphorus+potassium chlorate+sulfur is such a potent explosive that youll quickly get to know the police intimately if you produce any significant amount of it
Could also be manganese contamination from the degradation f the MMO electrodes.
That's some cool noises the reed valves (I assume it's the reed valves) in your vacuum pump make when it goes from near vacuum to normal pressure... little "par.... puurp!" sounds like a kids toy trumpet I used to have when........ I was a kid. Reminds me a bit of a massively scaled-down English diesel locomotive.....
With just a little more effort you can synthesise useful natrium perhalate by electrochemical means. The electrolytic cell conditions are just a little more exacting. For example, if using Pt anode you have to start from pure halate free from halide. Halide presence corrodes Pt electrodes. If you can obtain (or make yourself) PbO2 anodes, then you can start from halide. I have read that if a porous diaphragm (unglazed clay flower pot?) is used (as in a diaphragm electrolytic cell) is used, then one can synthesise perhalates using graphite anodes (not possible in a non-diaphragm cell). Oh, Happy New Year!
Never heard of the 'screaming gummy bear' test, but am looking forward to it! =)
that will be a fun episode.
@@canaan5337 I come from the future, it was.
To make potassium or ammonium perchlorate i think you have to electrolyze sodium into perchlorate and then do the double displacement
Yes, potassium chlorate is insoluble in water, so it crystallizes out before it can be electrolyzed into the perchlorate. Sodium and ammonium chlorate are much more soluble, so it stays in solution.
According to Wikipedia, heating potassium chlorate in the absence of a catalyst produces some perchlorate: 4 KClO3 → 3 KClO4 + KCl. I don't know how viable the method is in getting the desired reaction product, or how far it can be taken to the right in the reaction above. At best some cl is being reduced (disproportionation reaction) so you are not getting a complete conversion from all chlorate to perchlorate like in an ideal cell. I've seen this being done with sodium chlorate, and I actually did a little test by heating some in a test tube for a few minutes and it appeared to work, although my yield was horribly low. However, that was just heating to a melt with no real controlling of variables. It's not going to be as simple as that.
@@Clipster15 dont use potassium chlorate for this reaction its yield is bad!.
I use NaCl + NaClO3 mixture
the NaCl prevents reduction of chlorate.
yields with NaCl added is around 60%.
theres no real set temperature but usually when it starts foaming slightly is where I run then once it dies down and becomes this liquid soup that doesnt bubble all too much even raising the temp.
then I just simply break up the cake and mix in HCl to destroy any remaining chlorate and then mix in some KCl to precipitate any product or boil it down and fractionally crystalize to remove NaCl.
Bro you are my fkn hero! I just found you. Thank you for knowing your shit!
Just when I find out I need to stockpile some potassium chlorate for an experiment. Good timing
Great stuff! When do we get to see the perchlorate experiment?
Happy New Year!!! Can u make video how to make/get KClO4?? I didnt found it on your chanel so if u can make it in futur I will be thankfull!
would you happen to know the air permeability of latex tubing your using? it's seems safe for applications like this but I'd like to be sure.
I miss ur more frequent uploads
Gracias por este video una pregunta la saturación del cloruro de potasio se hace en agua y la electrolisis
For that red residue left over on your mmo anodes / cathodes you can buy off the shelf cheap muriatic acid which will take off any of the residue within a 30 minute soak. The usual coating on MMO anodes (Iridium / Ruthenium oxide) is not affected by HCL and is made to withstand highly corrosive enviroments.
Great to know. I think a few years ago for one of my other cells I used hcl to clean it, but it's been so long I forgot what I used and didn't want to harm the mmo. Will definitely use it in the future
@@ElementalMaker Did you try thermal decomposition that you said? Or not yet? Because we wait you know 😂 haha!
Hey man another awesome video :D By the way I'm having some trouble finding those hose adapters, could you link me to where you bought them? Thanks!
cute dog
All the best to you and yours fellow commenters.
Thanks man! You too!
Is there room inside the bench-top power supply to add a case fan? Don’t need anything fancy.
Jesse - let's cook! Nice crystals
If you do this with sodium chloride, you hardly get any crystals forming. You just evaporate solution to half its volume then top off with fresh sodium chloride and do a second run. Crystals form at the bottom and more form when you reduce remaining solution to half. Add more sodium chloride rinse and repeat! In one month you’ll get one kilo of relatively pure sodium chlorate crystals. I used gravity filtration with coffee filters. I purposely let them dry out and I lit them with a torch and the results were frightening and exciting!
Great technique for sodium chlorate. I've never actually tried the sodium salt, as the lower solubility deterred me, but that's a great process you described here, and I'll have to give it a try! Thank you for the tip!
You can use lead battery electrodes to go all the way to perchlorate. Use a dry battery's positive electrode plate if you salvage from a junked battery you will need to soak in NaOH or KOH first to remove sulfate.
Have you done this before Chris? And did you get perchlorate
@@Michael-bn2nlbattery electrodes fall apart fast, usually before making any perchlorate
Where did you source the mesh? I'm setting up some cells and having some issues with the Anodes
How can we mqke Perchlorate of it from KClO3 to KClO4 ?
And same for sodium ?
great for making primers
Another fun project to try with this is colored smoke screens. I forget the ratios but a mix of this stuff with lactose as a fuel, sodium carbonate as a moderator and an organic azo dye is what's commonly used by the military
I always wanted to try colored smoke compositions. Many years back when I was in high school I bought some dye at a local gun show, but I'm not sure that it was the correct type of dye, as it didn't work when mixed with the proper amounts of chlorate, lactose, and carbonate... but it sure as hell stained my parents garage floor when I dropped the bottle LOL. Any ideas of where to purchase the good stuff?
@@ElementalMaker as far as I know they're all organic, fat-soluble azo dyes, I remember seeing them listed in a research paper (I'll see if I can share a link to that). As far as I know they are all commonly used for industries such as for plastic dying, there must be vendors for them online. Unfortunately since I live in Europe getting my hands on such things is virtually impossible without having some sort of business license or just outright making the stuff myself, haha
@@ElementalMaker www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK224722/
@@ElementalMaker I'm pretty sure that dye based smoke needs to burn under a bit of pressure to work right...sort of like a rocket motor. A good friend has a friend who is a pyro hobbiest and professional EOD type for a 3 letter agency. They have worked up some impressive white smoke generators, but they have stayed away from colored smoke as it is too easy to end up exploding. (like rocket motor fails).
On the garage floor: In my younger days of flying hang gliders, some of us would carry distress smoke bombs when flying cross country...to be dropped in landing field to indicate wind direction. One guy had an orange one break open in his (stored) helmet and didn't notice. Put it on and went for a long flight on a hot day...sweat picked up the dye and ran down his face, ears, and neck....his nickname became "stain"
How much distance did you place between the anode/cathode? 2 inches?
Amazing video bro
I also want build a cell, what the size of the anode n cathode?
Hi buddy, thanks for video, i need advice please, I have Voltcraft hps 11530 fully adjustable power supply from 1- 15V and 1 to 30A 450w, the problem is when I adjust it to 5v-20A and connect to the MMO anode the Amperage showing around 3,4 A, when I close Kathode to the Anode the Amperage begin rising up to the 6A.. I had no idea why its not stay on the 20A, just voltage stay correct without changing..if you have any knowledge about it please let me know it, thanks a lot
Yes your power supply is working fine, what your seeing is simply physics in action. The conductivity of your solution isn't high enough to allow the full 20A at the given voltage. 20A seems way high anyways and will probably rapidly destroy your anode.
I have a titanium anode and a stainless steel cathode can serve me for the potassium chlorate cell, it would help me a lot your answer is for the university thanks
Nice one. Now please teach us, how to make MMO-electrodes on our own, cause they are hard to get and expensive like hell.
Hello what do you add like additiv in your epoxy? Thanks
Happy New Year to you and yours Hope that 2020 is the Best year to Date. Be Well and Be Safe....................................Bill
Happy New Year to you and yours as well Bill!
How much did you used of KCl and how much KClO3 did you get?
Can the platinum anode be replaced by a titanium anode and a stainless steel cathode? help please thanks
Hello , when you are pouring an old électrolyte in your cell : your electrolyte is at room température or you Warm it at a range between 50-65 degrés celcius? Thanks
Great looking crystals, though I doubt they're much good for any healing.
@9:15 you switch back to the Sorenson power supply, running at 3.9V and 4.84A. If you measure the PC PSU 5V output it might be a little high as the other output rails is not loaded/regulated correctly. Fortunately it can easily be lowered by putting high powered diodes in series, freeing up your lab PSU. Depending on the diode type and applied current, they usually have a voltage drop of 0.4-0.6V across Anode_Cathode. You could mix'n'match, or just put 3 in series. Should work out great, though later you might have to remove one - use the DMM to determine the correct voltage on the cells terminals. Best of luck - looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Another thing - @2:54 the ends of the MMO seems to be very shiny. That could be another reason why the filter paper was discolored, if they're being eaten up from the inside.
Happy New Year - from a Sørensen :ø)
The crystals have mystical powers. They heal by the therapeutic effects of oxygen.
@@garycard1456 Garlic, Orange Juice, Chamomile tea with honey just might more effective against the cold I'm experiencing at the moment ;')
Can't dispute Oxygen power though, venturing outside a moment ago I got some huge gasps - and remembered it might be possible to adjust the PC PSU internally, to output a lower voltage without using diodes.
I am looking forward to seeing how to make ammonium perchlorate :D
Hey bud, , , 19 was pretty neat and so is this. All the best for 20. Keep em coming eh !
nice video ,,, but what u put in solution ?? u say chlorates but ??
Hey! Do you have to dissolve the potassium chloride if you got as powder and what do you dissolve it in? Also, can the bought product have any contamination like cake agent?
Damn, you have added a sh*tload of subs since I was here last.
2 tips: Heat the cell to make chlorate production faster and prevent crystallization. Adjust ph occasionally to about 6.5 with HCL to avoid excess chlorine gas production, if it becomes a problem...
10:41 but without heating the Kcl solution it will split k and cl gas instead of makinv Kclo3 So how ?
Can you make a divided cell to be able to use hydrogen and oxygen separately while producing the chlorate?
EM. Have you seen what you can do with Meanwell or meanwell clone supplies? I take em and put a POT across R33 (They all call em R33) I run the pot to the front of the supply and you get current and voltage control. The 40v Supplies can go down to 0v and you can fine tune the current with whatever POT you put in there. I put a fine pitch 1k as the replacement to R33. Also. Re-Ammonium Perchlorate. That's copper PCB echant no? Does this act as a stronger oxidizer to sugar rockets? Why does it produce a stronger impulse?
Does anyone know where I can get platinum electrodes or platinized titanium in the Uk
If you want to go for perchlorate I would take some of that now, run a basic recrystal and then use the biggest one and grow a big single crystal kinda like rock candy or the borax crystal people with a string and a cup with a long wait time
Sir, to make kclo3 by electrolysis, is only KCL added
Hello brother, please. I have a question. Is it possible to use iodized salt, because I do not have any other salt?
This is completely off the topic of the vid, but oxidizer relevant. Would it be possible to extract the H2O2 from Sodium Percarbonate, aka OxiClean powder, and if so, how would one go about doing so?
I take it your wife doesn’t watch your videos then.... Sod’s law the one and only one she decides to see will be this one and then she will use the diamond saw on your love spuds!
Happy new year by the way I can’t wait to see what madness you dream up for 2020!
where did you buy the mmo anodes?
How much yeild you get. And how much potassium chloride you used how much water.please tell i have to make it help me.
You need to get a seperate oven for chemicals, mate. Nice vid tho. Didn't expect 7 amps to go through there
After two successful kclo3 runs, i will now try to run strontium chloride in the cell to get some nice strontium chlorate.
what i use platinize titenium anode for chloret production
Could you use silver electrodes, Just asking?
what was saturated solution? just water and pc?
in your experience is it safer to store KClo3 wet in H2o or dry
It's not reactive by itself as it's just an oxidizer, so it's fine to store dry as long as it's in a safe container, away from any possible fuels and heat.
Where did you buy those MMO strips from and what size is it?
I found big sheets of the stuff on ebay years ago. There are mmo anodes for sale on there now
What's the difference between potassium chloride and potassium biplorate? I don't know if that's a stupid question or not just reaching back into my brain into what I used to use to build firecrackers
Might crack that power supply open. Redo all the heatsink compound. You might even be able to add auxiliary heatsinks.
Now what do you use it for ?
can I use lead acid battery anode?
Can i use gold electrolysis of kclo3 please help me
Been using mixed metal oxide is the reason why you're filters turn the pinkish color