How GOOD was Ledley King? ● Tactical Analysis
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- In-depth analysis of one of the most underrated English defenders in history.. Ledley King
#ledleyking #thfc #Ledleykingskills
ATHLETICISM: 06:16
BLOCKS: 06:36
ANTICIPATION: 06:59
TACKLING: 07:24
HEADING: 07:55
MARKING: 08:42
PLAYING OUT: 09: 27
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The best defender of his era, no one came near him. He was a freak of nature.
Biggest argument against King in midfield was always "why play one of the best defenders around in his weakest position"
Like putting Kane at RW because he can cross a ball. You lose your best striker and have an average RW in one move
Henry didn't praise King because he was too nice, he praised him because he could take the ball from you without fouling you which he said no other CB could do. Big difference
Thierry Henry described him as the best defender he ever played against.
He was a calm head at the back, he didn’t play with much aggression as his game reading and sheer athleticism meant he got to the ball or the man quick enough to either win possession or hold up the striker. He didn’t need to smash strikers, they had to beat him which most couldn’t.
Had it not been for that knee injury I see no reason why he wouldn’t be in the conversation for greatest English CB ever.
He wasn’t able to train during the week but would keep his cardio up to play at the weekend and be the best player on the field week in week out. Ridiculous athlete and it’s such a shame injuries robbed him of more.
Agreed. Only thing I would say is that at youth level Terry captained their youth side and King admitted that Terry was considered the bigger talent - so I’m not saying King couldn’t have been better than Terry without injury but just that even without injury it’s not a shoe in that he would be considered second to Bobby Moore. But yes he certainly would have been in the conversation 👍
There is a positive spin on the injury he had, it's proof of an iron will and unmatched commitment to club and country. 5 years of nothing but rehab and training alone in a gym instead of a pitch just to play games is something that would have broken most players completely. That must have been hell for him to deal with, it must have raised the game of his teammates seeing what he was going through every day just to play and help the team.
When the medical staff say you're crippled and you've barely played all year but the manager plays both legs of the semi-final and 120minutes in the final because you say you can do it. That says pretty much everything you need to know about the player.
Good man,@@pulleyfm8585
Great video but I still think you're underselling him a bit. End of the day he played his entire senior career basically injured and was still mentioned in the same breath as Campbell, Terry, Ferdinand all day. If King doesn't get fucked by Delap you arguably have the greatest centre-half of the modern game. In this regard it seems unfair to compare peak contemporaries with something who played through injury their entire career. Also think that the comment at the end about his personality is honestly below the belt, you should ask anyone who played with him what he was like, his mentality was without peer, John Terry would have retired 5 years earlier than him
Exactly. Ledley was a complete centre back but his career was set back by injuries. He had it all, physicality, could read the game and tackle as good as anyone. He was like Campbell but with better concentration, if it wasn't for his bad knees he'd be held in very high regard now.
I don't like this report. You're marking him down for his style and not his ability. clean defending is what you want at top level because it stops you giving away cheap goals and goal scoring opportunities. Maldini (arguably the best CB of all time) admitted this. Ferdinand and Terry Played with far better defenders than King. So that weakness wasnt exposed until they played in Europe and international tournaments where you needed to be composed. Look at Barcalona against ferdinand and you'll see the impact it wouldve had if Ferdinand was a clean tackler of the ball and was better on his feet and england looked very weak defensively in tournaments for the exact things you were diissing king for being. They were far too engaged with attackers and were alot more aggresive in nature in how they played considering they werent as good a athlete and they werent as good in their feet it made england far more susceptible to concede against top attacking teams. marking him down for that is silly, also his consistency was affected by the fact that he had injury and you could see he couldnt run around all the time and engage in duels all the time. That's Clever CB play it looks ineffective because of the system and the team hes in, Personality has no effect on how aggressive you are as a defender aggression comes down to style and your strengths as a CB they were more aggressive because they werent as polished in tackles and defending one on ones (henry mentioned that king never fouled him) Also I wouldnt put terry above him cause I think other than concentration and aerial ability terry was inferior at everything else. Terry was slower less agile across the ground and his recovery wasnt as good you look at terry at club level he always had mobile CDMs (Makalele Essien Ballack Mikel Ramires) that's to protect his weakness this is not included in your report of king and comparing him not to mention he played in a better defensive system this helped terry to be consistent. Terry's passing and ball playing isnt as good at all he was very conservative and never carried the ball out of defence like king or Ferdinand. Carvalho was better than Terry. Vidic was very aggressive but sloppy and rash and got isolated and targeted alot in games. And pacey dribblers would run towards Ferdinand because they knew he his feet were susceptible to getting tangled (Type up Henry vs Ferdinand or when Ronaldinho took Ferdinand on 1 on 1 you'll see his feet and body gets muddled up, further evidence was when messi came up against him and Vidic and they struggled because of their overly aggressive and rough approach and lack of confidence in their 1 on 1 ability). Again he had Top players around him to nullify these things king didnt and that meant that king was having to engage in defending on areas of the pitch he didnt want to be defending in More frequent than Terry and Rio. Example you look at Henry who in actual 1 to 1 Attacking struggled alot with ledley unless it was aerially. he had to stand off him because henry liked to go wide and beat the CB out wide, Rio and terry wouldve got sent off or conceded goals on a regular if they were given that task. Terry and Rio never had the pace and mobility to stop him so they had to defend far more reckless to stop him. King was essentially better than all the ones you mentioned Technically other than Carvalho who's hes superior too as an athlete.
Thank you for your post, some quality arguments put forward but respond as follows:
1) Clean Defending - Maldini is not the best CB of all time, that would be Beckenbauer, Baresi, Scirea, Moore, Figueroa just to name but a few. Now clean defending is important and is indeed a characteristic attributed to the higher IQ CB's but whenever these guys had to get their hands dirty, they would do it albeit in a very subtle way and very rarely done. Point being that you don't need to tackle 'dirty' but let the opponent know they are in for a tough game by putting a bit of extra force in the challenge.. look at Maldini's slide tackles, they weren't all nicey nice interceptions but full blooded slide tackles albeit well executed.
2)Ferdinand and Terry excelled at World Cup 2006 as a pairing, they were let down by the midfield and attack.. defence was never an issue for the Golden Generation. Furthermore both were consistent at European level and Ferdinand's display v Barcelona in 2008 semi was exceptional. In 08/09 it was Vidic who struggled with Eto'o for the first goal which opened the game up for Barca.
3) I agree King was the better 1 v 1 defender, and he was truly exceptional in this regard but that isn't the only aspect to a top defender.
4) Terry's passing was better than King. He pinged passes with either foot with unerring accuracy, he would show more impetus in his passing and in goalscoring and leadership skills he was superior to King. King was more talented than Vidic.
5) Extra support the other players received. There is no doubt that these players had better systems, support players and managers than King. But in order to get into clubs which have superior support set ups, you have to show your talent and prove yourself when things are not in your favour. So whilst I am not saying King didn't do this - injuries clearly halted his progress, to say that Rio and Terry only became what they are due to the players around them is doing them a great disservice. They were 'spine' players for their side.
@@PythagorasinBoots I said arguably and beckenbauer played in a much easier less technical era of football, Maldini also done that because he knew it was one of the only ways they could stop the best dribblers also Thuram is ahead of alot of the names you said for Best defenders . They also struggled in 04 02 and didnt qualify for 08. They needed a CDM in front of them because of their weaknesses that's why they failed the midfield was very imbalanced and weak but because they didn't have absolute worldis in defence it got picked up on more spain won a euros with Alonso Xavi Iniesta put that midfield with England's backline theyd have got destroyed . At no point did I say 1on 1 is the only aspect of defending. I mentioned recovery athleticism mobility agility on feet and gave examples of him using IQ and ball playing. "Passing with both feet" 1st of all that's not actually true king was the better passer he could play into spaces alot more and could change the direction of his body and his feet when passing. second of all show me terry comfortably passing the ball under pressure and carrying it into midfield and playing passes on the turn. You won't cause he cant do Any of those things that's comfortable ball playing traits. King carried the ball out more cause hes more comfortable on the ball. It's why king would play in midfield and terry Couldn't. You misquoted me I merely said having better support was what made them so consistent and what made them stand out above ledley which if you look into as soon as they didnt have the top notch CDMs at their disposal they looked very susceptible to conceding goals most top defenders need a CDM to play ahead of them because theirs always a mistake or an area of weakness in defence to be exploited. Ledley suffered injuries from his 1st game. He also didnt want to leave teams were interested in him but between his injuries and his loyalty he didn't want to leave.
Firell Parker Firell Parker yes but it’s not arguable his body of work as a CB doesn’t come close to Baresi and Beckenbauer. Majority of career was as a left back.
Reason why King was tried out at CDM was he was more nimble and quicker, which meant he could cover ground better in that role - his limited passing range in that role meant he was exposed as being out of his depth in that position. His ball carrying was superior to Terry and arguably Rio but not his passing which was average compared to most top tier ball playing CBs.
This criticism of having good CDMs in front of them, it’s to a degree irrelevant because Baresi had Frank Rijkaard ahead of him, Nesta had likes of Gattuso, all Rio had was Carrick whose good but not an all time great level CDM and for England they had Lampard and Gerrard so didn’t have any real protection apart from 2006 when Hargreaves played. Most top CBs will need that protection - that shouldn’t really take away from their overall rating as players.
For me there are certain aspects of Kings play which even withstanding the injury issue weren’t top tier and others which were exceptional even with the injuries. Hence why I wanted to do a video on him because he was a special player but just not Bobby Moore level special. At his best could have rivalled Rio
and Terry but it wasn’t a certainty to happen - mentality and personality comes into it as to whether players reach their potential or not.
So Rio wasnt quick and Terry wasnt a brilliant CB passer .... nonsense. The vid makers seeing of whats there is well above your own you apear to be just filling in the blanks to fit a pre defined narrative.
@@PermanentMerka They were, I wouldn't say King was better but comparable to them, he wouldn't look out of place playing with them, King was always injured that was his problem.
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Ledley was the best. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves because of his knew injury but he was hands down the best!
King vs France in 2004 if you look at their players and his level of experience, was one of the great performances. He was a better player than Ferdinand and Terry hands down. Also unbelievably quick
King shits over Terry/Sol/Rio all day every day, you must not of watched him live.
I have actually and I think that is a very biased opinion to say he shits on three of the greatest CB’s in English history. He was very close to them at his best and had performances which surpassed them but in terms of consistency - didn’t come close
@@PythagorasinBoots he would of been up there with them however that knee never could...
@@benardboateng1501 ? Bobby Moore is the greatest English CB of all time by a large distance.
One stat that really illustrates how clean his tackling was is that he only got 8 yellow cards in 268 Premier League games. About 1 yellow card per season. That is something I adore in defenders, as it means less fouls, free kicks and so on, but it does mean you still have to be VERY, VERY good to make attackers fear coming up against you, as you're sacrificing the "physical fear" element. He's was not relying on dirty tackles and rough physicality to get in their heads. I would have loved to see a fully fit King and would have given my right knee to him if I could have. Unfortunately I'd completely done my ACL twice, so maybe that wouldn't have helped much. I'm a Spurs fan (since about 1997) and I remember when Henry spoke about King. Big words! It's a lot of "what if's". but to not train much (usually just in a pool to stay fit) and then perform at that level? Crazy.
Henry:
“I don’t like defenders who hold the shirts of other players. The only defender [in England] who doesn’t do that and sometimes still gets the ball off my feet easily is Ledley King,” he said.
“He is the only guy who doesn’t hold players. He will get the ball off you without you even noticing. For me, that is a good defender.”
“He plays without any contact yet is somehow still strong and gets the ball without doing any fouls,” Henry added.
Yep I would agree with all that.. illustrates his effortless reading of the game and effortless athleticism which allowed him to operate at the highest level without needing to overly exert himself.
@@PythagorasinBoots I wonder if his injuries actually prevented him from exerting more of a physical "dirty" presence, as that might have taken a bigger toll on his knee and he then ended up developing a cleaner style due to that. The first injury obviously happened early on in his career, having only just turned 19, if I remember correctly. Never really thought about that, but it might have made him focus more on the clean part of the defender's job, as he might not have been able to keep up in the same way if he had overdone it time and again with a more physical "dirty" presence, which perhaps require a different kinda force and style. Not sure, just kind of a train of thought here. I don't know enough about his style from his youth years, so it's difficult to tell what effect it has had on his style development.
That is actually an excellent point and not something I had considered. Certainly something to ponder on.
@Storm Linnebjerg (CloudburzT) absolutely, clean defending is Smart defending
Great video, really well done.
Thank you very much! Let me know if you have any other recommendations.
I feel there is a lot of analysis based on being played out of position in one game for his country in 2004 but I guess that the availability of footage is going to be an issue in a retrospective analysis like this.
You know he reminds me a lot of fikayo Tomori incredible athleticism fastest cb I’ve probably seen. Tomori is shorter tho and is a lesser talent definitely
Decent shout but yeah King in a league of his own!
What about Sol Campbell?
Better than Campbell, just too injury prone unfortunately.
Really enjoy your work. LK was a stunning CB.
Best English Defender in history
Better than Moore?
@@PythagorasinBoots I wasn’t around when Moore played but going on old clips and videos on the internet King was a better defender in my humble opinion.
Best CB since Moore. Englands best 2
If he didn’t have his injuries Terry Campbell and Ferdinand would have had a lot less England caps
He would have been well suited to take over from them after 2006/2008. Could have had an era to himself but never got the opportunity.
Best defender this league has ever seen. Amazing when he was fit. ##COYS
He was brilliant when fit... I wouldn't quite go as far as he was the best defender we have seen but he could potentially have been, certainly of the EPL era.
@@user-hm5fq9ip8h great list, a few others I'd consider: Vidic, Carvalho, Campbell, Stam, Adams, McGrath, Hansen, Mackay
@@possessedslig I think Stam is the best one, I'm not a Utd fan but I think he's the best I've seen in the Premier league, his presence was just awesome.
Amazing video
Just found this channel. Liking the content.
Thanks Anon, is there any future content you would like to see?
@@PythagorasinBoots An analysis on Gareth Barry would be cool, I have never made up my mind on how good he was.
Anon Interesting choice. Must admit having watched him live a number of times, he was one of the most impressive English midfielders I saw (and I’ve seen likes of Scholes, Gerrard and co). Always used the ball well and provided good tactical balance. Will look into doing this.
Id be very interested to see an analysis done on Woodgate since he did actually perform at very high levels at both Leeds and to a lesser extent Madrid.
Another very talented centre back. The incident with Bowyer changed his life and he was never quite the same after that.
@@PythagorasinBoots Yea I wanna see Woodgate too, many say he could be England's best ever CB if not for injuries
Im a utd fan and no one did to RVN what Woodgate did it wasnt even close. I remember how frustrated he would get playing against him.
Arguably he was better than both of them, but the "golden generation" did not include anyone who played for Spurs. Sadly his knee injury finished off what would have been a much more proactive England career otherwise for good.
everybody says it, and theyre right, he was the best we had along with Terry and Ferdinand. At his best he was the best of both. An incredible player.
Imagine him in the current squad - he be a legend and first on team sheet.
Videos comparing and contrasting: Campbell, Rio, Terry, King as well as Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick would be great
I appreciate the effort that goes into making these videos, i would like to know how old you are. Because retrospectively watching back highlights of these players and trying to summarise there style of play is very tough. Some of the points you made i find very hard to agree with. For example, you said Rio and Ledley showed way less character and initiative on the ball compared to John Terry. Now I have many times defended John Terry ability on the ball, he is very underrated technically, but compared to the ability of Ledley King or Rio, he is nowhere near. They are 2 of the finest technical CBs ive seen in the premier league, they could pick out all types of passes and only watching them week in and week out would you see that. I agree with the lack of aggression in Ledleys play but i wouldnt class that as a negative either, a perfect CB combination always has a mix of calmness partnered with the no nonesense aggressive type. See Rio and Vidic, the best CB partnership the premier league has ever seen. The truth is, if Ledley didnt have bad knees, he would of most likely left spurs for a greater team and won many trophies. Lastly, you said riquelme wasnt world class when he is widely regarded as one of the greatest playmakers.
I just want to know your age to understand if you are retrospectively watching these players or whether you actually saw them week in week out.
I started watching football in 1993, so I saw the entirety of these guys career and disagree on Terry's technical ability being inferior. I also saw many games of these 3 players live in person.
I would say King was naturally the best technically in that he was nimble with the ball, best footwork and natural IQ in terms of passing but Terry passing IQ was excellent and his long passing the best out of the 3, but arguably the most immobile but his runs from defence were pretty effective, he could slalom through - more so than a Rio.
@PythagorasinBoots just because someone can hit 60 yarders across the pitch don't mean they are better at passing. I'd much rather have a player who moves the ball quickly over short spaces than someone who switches play. Many British players have been great at crossfield passes, look tarkowski and Ben mee, they do it all the time, I wouldn't describe them as great technical players or great passers of the ball. Rio and Ledley were way more varied in their passing ability, were able to move the ball at quicker speeds. Terry is very underrated technically and gets a lot of undue criticism, so it's good to speak to someone who atleast acknowledges he was good technically. But he still does not compare to rio or ledley, they could do all types of passes, because they are capable of all types they didn't just rely on long cross field passes when given loads of time. They are able to pass and dribble out of the most precarious of situations, they were both very intelligent and press resistant
If he had been fit I think he would have displaced Terry at international level, he was better on the ball, clean, great positioning and dominant, him and Ferdinand would have been a great pair. I get your point about personality however. Not the intensity of Terry and Ferdinand. But also probably talks a lot less shit than Rio, and dont think he would bang his mates mr's like Terry.
😂 last point was class.
Also wouldn't lie about not joining arsenal like sol Campbell
Also he didn’t have the body shaping and scanning skills to be a DM however a top top CB
Would love to see Sol
So this was a video about John Terry then 😉
The beatles were the best band there ever was!! They did it all, all genres, they were only around for 8 years. Try I want you ( she's so heavy) or helter-skelter. Why not do both?
Great defender. If fit then he would be better than Terry and almost as good as Ferdinand.
Can you please do one video on Tony Adams?
Will add to the list.
@@PythagorasinBoots thank you very much!
You love John Terry don’t you fella? Haha
Yes he was anyone with a football brain could see that he was a rolls Royce
Don't think anyone disagrees.
Riquelme was elite
Can u do analysis on Ravel Morrison and the potential he had???
Sure, that would be a very interesting topic to do - great shout👍
Im obsessed with Ravel seen every minute of him available (i think)
Strengths
Very powerful shot there is one clip for Atlas where he hits a side foot free kick and hits the bar i"ve barely seen anything hit so hard so effortlessly.
He has/had brilliant ability to play the ball into players paths takes great care on passes.
Is two footed. Zidane esk volley with weaker foot infront of Kop in FA youth cup injury time showing his 'Roy of the Rovers' traits too.
Had a great touch. Somewhat overrated though I feel.
His best attribute is something Foden has, he doesn't need to look at the ball when he dribbles. This leads to the 'ghosting past people' thing. He watches the players body and goes round them via how they are positioned often avoiding even attempted tackle. If you watch him playing in mexico when very sadly he slowed down seemingly giving up somewhat. Look at a trick he simply does better than any player. He passes the ball around players and collects it himself. He does this as he reads the angle and the way they approach.
He had very good vision too although never used it as much as he could (we get to his major floor here) as he never understood the Bruno thing or I guess you could call it the Klopp thing too - Playing the ball early when defenders are on the move. He was very much Juan Reqelme style. Always running up to players asking for ball to feet. Loving the touches. These players develop good game control. Especially slowing it down when under pressure but these players also often negate effective systems that open teams up. Foden is a simular but superior version of Ravel he will when not hampered by that Robotic rule filled if effective system at city. Give and go but pull onto players and loose them with his first touch. The game goes from slow to fast in seconds. Ravel has the ability to do this but would always play to slow. From my watching of him it is this trait that has hampered him as much as attitude. He is actually well liked by team mates when you hear comments. A young vulnerable lad who I think, like Pogba all to often has a strange combination of natural game intelligence and also a naviety as to how best to use his skills and vision. With Ravel the better he played the more the game became about him. I think thats to old school now. If you want ball that much you gotta put in the work on the ball like your out of posssesion like a Xavi. Wasnt jay jay a bit the same. Hit a pass to show you could rather than what was best for the team.
Morrison can tackle as well so I wonder if like a Tarrat he might be a flare player that could convert to a Xavi Alonso type CDM. I dont doubt he could do that role, then his others talents could come off the back of that deeper role with more forward players to hit. Like Gazza he has that hint of '6' to his midfield should he choose to use it. Played there for Birmingham couple of games...i think??
Id loved this vid by the way. You obviously have a great eye.
Id like to see these topics above all else:
True game tempo controllers vs just good passers
The difference ways CDM's do there job. Positioners like Carrick vs pass readers like Blind.
PermanentMerka Do u think ravel Morrison deserved the hype to be compared better to many great at the club???
Terry’s best was a captain to win at all costs but that was it Rio good on the ball but wasn’t as good in the tackle or his reading of the game
I think Terry's ability on the ball is very underrated. Also Ledley King said himself that in their youth days that Terry was the best player at their youth team so he must have been a very talented youngster.
How much of Ledley King and the other defenders of that era did you actually watch? Because comparing individual attributes between players, especially things like 'blocking ability', doesn't ring true to me as someone who watched all those players throughout their careers. King was technically and physically the equal of Sol, Rio and Terry (and all 4 were magnificent players). He was as good as any of those players in any aspect of their games. The only thing that let him down was his body.
Such a shame injuries ruined King
Ledley King is the best CB ever and the greatest of all time in that position. The only problem he had is (1) He is injury prone (2) He did not play in big clubs with top world class players. Yet,He still stands out. Those you compared him with are not injury prone and played for big clubs with top world class players that made their jobs easier. Had most of these players you compared Ledley King with finds themselves in the same situations and circumstances with ledley king,i assure you they would've amounted to nothing in football history. And that's was why Ledley King was a Gaint among dwarves and that made him the best of all time.
Hardly a fair comparison. Swap him and Terry and King smashes Terry.
I don’t think King would agree.
@@PythagorasinBoots are you his agent? A close friend? What gives you authority to say what he thinks? Very bold of you.
Rio better ngl
He was a quality defender but it is a shame he was at a small club. 😒
Talking shit.