How Much Power Does My Supercharged Honda S2000 Make?
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2018
- Dyno Testing/Tuning A Supercharged Honda S2000 - Stage 1 SOS Kit
Supercharger Install Honda S2000 - • Supercharging My Honda...
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Before stomping the throttle in my newly supercharged S2000, it's important to make sure that the tune is working appropriately, and that the vehicle is getting the correct amount of air and fuel when needed. To do this, I headed to Throttle Works to put the S2000 on a dyno and measure air/fuel ratios, and to adjust as needed.
Ideally, the supercharged engine will maintain an AFR in the range of 11.5:1 to 12:1 when on boost. The car ran 4 full throttle runs to verify the kit maps were working appropriately, and to accurately measure horsepower and torque. How much power did it make? Were any adjustments needed? What tweaks could allow for more horsepower? Is it safe to drive hard? All of these questions answered in the video!
Throttle Works - Tuning Shop In Boise, ID
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She's supercharged!!! A couple comments to address many of the common questions below. First, engine horsepower vs wheel horsepower. S2000's are 240HP at the crank from the factory, probably around 190-200ish at the wheels (my stock car measured in the 180's). Explained more here: czcams.com/video/BOFVnkrkQ6k/video.html. Second, saying "other kits get you more HP reliably" is just regurgitating marketing talk. A kit's purpose is to provide packaging assistance, and ultimately boost. Any kit can do this. It's how fuel, air, and ignition timing are controlled that ultimately dictate reliability (doesn't matter if the kits home-made or $20,000). And comparing kits at different PSI is silly. With any of these supercharger kits (regardless of who makes it), additional power is easy to achieve by swapping supercharger pulleys. If I put on a 9 psi pulley, it has 9 psi at the top end. It would need standalone ECU and new injectors, but from there you're really just choosing a pulley size and picking the amount of boost you feel comfortable throwing at the engine. Hope everyone's having an awesome day!! Loving the supercharge kit, and a video driving coming soon! Instagram is a great place for intermediary content: instagram.com/engineeringexplained/
Engineering Explained this isn't a criticism, but I was wondering why you chose a supercharger over a turbocharger?
Are you going to get a tune?
Engineering Explained These engines handle 750whp reliably. Get a bigger pulley and increase boost. Go with e85 conversion if that makes you sleep better. E85 resist detonation and you get even more power but at cost of using more fuel. 700whp should easy unless your supercharger and fuel holds you back. It probably will. Get the biggest injectors and highest flowing fuel pump/pumps possible.
Those f series engine are forged so internals don't break even at 1000whp. If something happens it's due to a bad tune. A bad tune can even break any engine. Replace the supercharger with a turbo kit when you get bored of the power. Should be a fun car regardless.
What year is this?
Get another BUNG!!! ;) I bet she is a blast to drive WOT!
HumbleMechanic thank you for helping another youtuber
or spray the surface with h20
I wasnt talking about N20, i meant just water for evaporative cooling. There is also this other thing, MeOH/H2O injection into the intake (after the intercooler)
You don't need another bung, all you need is a wideband that has a narrow band output. Take the narrow band output splice it into the positive for the O2 sensor, then put two 10 ohms 10 watt resistors inline for the heater circuit. Then you have one bung in your exhaust for the lambda O2 sensor and your ECU still gets the info it needs and you will not get a CEL. I used an old O2 sensor harness for this so it is reversible.
Maybe this bung is referencing for valvecover port to reduce more crankcase pressure/blowby
Dude, you are such a smart guy and your videos are super interesting. What a truly great service you’re doing for the community! You just break it down so well and make things so easy to understand. You also pick the perfect topics.
DJ-TRAXX really appreciate the kind words, glad you enjoy it and thank you so much for watching!
Well I'll break it down a little further ... A wideband is a must. Period. Equally as important is being able to do data logs. You have no way of seeing the timing or ST/LT knock. That spot where it's going rich could be the ecu sensing knock and pulling timing (probably not in the case). It's basically running the car blind. The tuning setup on that car right now is primitive. How do you know your car isn't knocking at 12.0 AFR at that altitude/temperature and with the fuel your using? I'm sure that tune has safety's built in and is running mild timing to make it plug and play and safe..but still. Having the ability to see what the car is doing and being able to make fuel and timing adjustments is a very very powerful tool. Not just for performance but for diagnostics aswell... I never dabbled with Hondas but with alot of other vehicles you don't need an expensive standalone either. Diablosport for srt4s is a good example of a much less expensive and less complicated alternative. Either way it's a nice setup you got and a nice car but you there's no reason to be using that tune when you can afford something much better. Then get some injectors and a fuel pump, a smaller pulley and whatever else you need for e85 lol
@@KrustyQuad Geez he has explained what he is doing and why, don't be so keen to spout your knowledge. You mention Diablosport but don't elaborate which may have been useful.
If you put enough stickers on it, you can get it to 300 hp
POWARD BY VTECH
Great analysis of the dyno charts.
Mine with same kit, Mustang Dyno, 191 baseline, 306 after. I have an exhaust, though, and testing was at sea level at 95F. I would expect your torque to be climbing more than it is after 6000; check for belt slippage. I definitely recommend a wideband, as I bet you're running a bit rich (I bet right at 10:1). Welding the bung on was an easy thing, took an exhaust shop about 15 minutes. My kit ran super rich out of the box, probably to compensate for dirty injectors. I'm actually considering raising my boost level to 7PSI as I believe clean injectors have the capacity for it.
Your AFR spike in the mid-range is a common enough issue; SOS has an "alternate" tune for the FVM controller specifically for this issue. I've had this kit for 6 years, and it's very reliable and easy to maintain. It also passes emissions checks easily.
nice info.
Thanks for sharing! Boost has a nice curve, so no indication of slipping belt. Measured 6 psi around 8500ish.
Great. You're probably running 10:1 (possibly less) at the top end. I think when you get that right you'll be really close to 300, possibly more! I got an AEM wideband with gauge; you'll find you need to do a "twice a year" tweak to fuel pressure as the seasons change, but it's not a big deal. You're basically building my car (MY02, blue with blue top), which is fun to watch. Great series. Have fun with it all, as the S2000 turned into the hypothetical S3000 is a really great car to own!
Have you changed internals?
Your dyno graph really amazing .
Keep going master.
Damn, the humble mechanic really hooked you up proper!
I walked out of my court hearing for this
I live in California. There is no god here.
God is there, he's just waiting for all the good to evacuate so he can set it on fire.
MavHunter20XX How Christian of you.
Derek B lmao!
MavHunter20XX
What a father
Hello Everyone and Welcome
Its been like 3 years since i first watch your vids
Good job sir!
Just got a 02 s2000 and ur videos have been helping me with building plans for her. Thank you:)
I’ve seen all your videos since you first reviewed your STI. It’s been really cool to learn more about cars and see the progress in your S2k. I’m really stoked for you.
As someone with an AP2 and having seriously looked at the SOS Stage 1 Supercharger kit, THANK YOU for taking the time to show how in depth the install is and how complete the kit is and what sort of realistic gains to expect.
jeepilot just go stage 2 with 1200 novi
Unfortunately I live in an area that is emissions tested (OBDII only, no sniffer), and the stand-alone engine management that is required for Stage 2 wouldn't work so well. That, and I'm not looking for an insane increase, something just just give a little more grunt.
jeepilot where? Cali?
Jason I cant belive youre making us wait for the next video to hear that amazing supercharger noise. I thought you were nice...
I've learning all of what your doing to the s2000! Great job!
Awesome! I've done a lot of these dyno comparisons for my BRZ & FRS with various mods. Always cool to see the before / after overlays. Next step, real engine management 😁
It's great how easy it has become to get more power with aftermarket kits. (With good ones) :D Nice
They had these 20 years ago lol.
the fact engine dyno's make or record different hp outputs is amazing to me. its out put or its not.
Really enjoying watching the build and of course the way you explain it!
As always, beautifully explained. Great video! Congratulations, Jason.
Awesome results, quick insight, sometimes 11.5 air fuel down low will make more torque, leaning it out to a 12.5 till more boost comes in would probably make more horsepower but less torque, you might be surprised a lot of motors will make the same power 11.5-12.5 air fuel, just food for thought
Sloppy Mechanics 👍
Makes sense, more fuel does make the air/fuel mix more dense. But at the end of the day, every car is different.
have you found your next car to LS swap now ;)
Nice gain! You're gonna feel that in the seat of the pants! The numbers don't look like a huge gain, but considering the weight of the car, it should make quite a difference!
rigormortis08 I shudder to think of what absolute monster you must drive to say 80 HP looks like a small gain
Joshua Barkey Lol. I was saying that looking at strictly the numbers, many people don't see 80hp as a big gain. Especially for people used tp driving 4000lb cars. With the lighter weight of the s2000, that 80hp will feel like a much larger gain than just the numbers show.
rigormortis08 Fair enough. I just drive a 90HP 2,200 pound civic, so 80 HP is pretty big to me
rigormortis08 gotta look at more of how much a percentage it is, which is 40%. Which is huge lol like adding 200hp to a 500hp car.. big difference.
Stefan Rose that's exactly what I was saying. It's a big gain for a small engine and a light car, comparable to a larger gain in a heavier car. I was pointing out that many people will just see 80hp and roll their eyes, when in reality the gain is something Jason is definitely going to notice!
Awesome work! And also very interesting that u don't go crazy like hell at the beginning, it's way more fun to see this beautiful peace of car getting more and more power step by step 😁
Great video as always Jason! As an owner of a supercharged Audi S4, I approve. Superchargers are rare these days and I can't believe the new S4 ditched it (and dual clutch) for a turbo!
Hondata... and a pulley change
all the boost
Don’t believe Hondata is compatible with the AP1.
Should be able to switch to an AP2 ECU and convert to electric throttle though.
I really like the F-series engine that comes in the S2000. I think it's one of the only engines in production that comes with aluminum rods. Only thing I would be concerned with is the transmission they're kind of a weak link once you start making a lot of torque.
You can get a Hondata, but it's an ECU replacement that uses the RSX-S ECU. It's about $2K and 6 hours of labor to replace various sensors, including the crank sensor.
Stephen Baker or u can use ballade sports hondata kpro conversion so u dont need to change any sensors with rsx-s ecu.
Cool now to another few years until he does the ECU
Hahaha, most likely case!
Jason, as per your normal.. the information and delivery is spot on. Thank you for sharing your awesomeness.
As always very clear explanations like all your videos and congrats on a boosted s2000 now, thats awsome keep it up thank you for sharing
Instead of using an exhaust probe to measure fuel trims after the catalytic converter, why not use the short term fuel trim from OBD2 data? It’s got to be a lot more accurate than estimating after the converters.
These cars don't have a wideband O2 sensor. They'll measure stoich/not stoich well enough, but a wideband at the tail is more accurate. A wideband before the cat is more accurate still.
Whoda Hellru
"Too soon junior"
Awesome video, I really like your methodology to get measurements after every modification. Looking forward to the next one!
I love your vids. Science backed real data! Congratulations on all EE's success and keep up the content.
3" straight pipe next ;) like a true Honda owner
Hood exit upside down header.
better than the $2500 Titanium exhaust for sure
my friend had that setup.... I rode with 'em on an all day cruise with the s2k club, lets just say I lost hearing for a few days after, but it sounded INSANE going through tunnels!
3.5”
nahh, just weld some 6" tin can on the rear
with an engine reving to 8800 you wouldnt even bother fine tuning at the 3k rpm level...any racing you would do you wouldnt even let it go below that
SuperJlonergan good point
SuperJlonergan for launching maybe? And daily driving
It's a street car too..
For racing yes, I agree.. But, I think Jason was going for a comfortable and reliable daily driver with weekend racing performance included too.. So, tuning it across the RPM range is a good idea.
IDK, my rotary engine (9500 rpm max stock) feels really sluggish at 3k rpm. I get left in the dust in any launch. Usually I can't make up the distance fast enough so they can see the beautiful jets of flames when I shift into second.
The other option is smoking my clutch at 6k rpm launch, but I can smell it miles later, so I don't really like that option... Low end power would be nice to have too sometimes.
Thanks for taking the time to upgrade to different stages. I totally agree with the fact that that makes it even more interesting to see
Thank you so much for showing us your journey into tuning ! That's super interesting, imho.
Honda SVTEC!!!
Hi I have a S2000 myself. Been watching your journey quite a while. Recently I found a aftermarket manufacturer making carbon fibre drive shaft for S2000. Does that makes a actual difference in performance for the S2000? Those marketing materials seems astonishing but i am in doubt. Hope you have time to make a video explaining that. 😁
I don't think there's a need to buy new driveshafts unless you've messed with everything else.
What the top comment said
A reduction in drive line mass will improve acceleration (a tiny bit) but won't change how much horsepower gets to the wheels. It would be very expensive (I assume) for very little gain.
You usually only see gains from that part if you've really gone all out everywhere else, and it also depends on how fast the gearing has the shaft spinning. You really need to accelerate quite rapidly for the original driveshaft to be holding you back.
It will make a tiny bit of difference, which is critical for racing but for a street car no more then bragging rights.
Man really you’re in my area never knew that. Glad to see someone local on here doing good in the car community
its good that you acknowledge the difference between dynos. a lot of people think everything reads like a dynojet
Still waiting for that whine🎵🎵🎵🎵
No whine with centrifugal superchargers. They sound more like a turbo charger since its like turbocharging in design.
V8Flexin aww damn 😢😢😕
Ha! You missed out on the glory days of side mount superchargers with straight cut gears. Damn did they sound tough... I mean my 347 stroker had twin 2.5" pipes with one cat and a straight through muffler either side, a straight cut gear noise *and* a blow off valve. The Saturday night boys knew when I was coming, that's for sure
Didn't read enough CZcams comments?
Skippy they still make centrifugal superchargers with straight cut gears like the procharger F1 & F1A. Was planning on putting one on my 2000 gt with Mach 1 swap before I got my Shelby. But those F1A prochargers are hella loud and I don't know if I could handle that noise every time I drive. However under boost they sound like a jet engine.
That HP curve is curious. I thought the supercharger would help as much or more at low RPM as at high, in contrast to a turbo which has a slight spool-up lag. This curve looks like a turbo-charged curve, rather than a supercharged curve.
alliejr it's a centrifugal supercharger. Not a roots style blower.
Thanks for clarification.
CZcams Connected was not aware of that! Cool
My car has a roots supercharger, can confirm I can get full boost at 2500-3k rpm. Lots of torque, BUT lots of load on the engine when you do that.
Its a centrifugal supercharger, thus its not positive displacement compressor. The curve is like in-between turbocharger and roots type supercharger.
Thank you for doing it in steps, and sharing with us 😊
I have really enjoyed this series and I am looking forward to more from this build.
Honestly I was expecting way more but I mean 6 psi of boost is literally nothing, you definitely should have at least 10 psi of boost. You might also want to throw a Hondata ECU there.
He'll be around 300 when he tunes it right. A Hondata is $2K plus a lot of labor.
80HP gains, literally nothing!
Stephen Baker I don’t know where you got that number from but a Hondata for an AP1 S2000 costs about $695 which isn’t that expensive for an ECU that increases performance.
get a used plug and play haltech goes for around 900 to 1000
Please route that Air Filter to the front so your not using Hot Air
IIGrayfoxII There should be enough cool air coming in for it not to matter much except when stationary, besides it has a air to water charge cooler anyway. You're putting a bit more load on the cooler, but not much compared to the heat from compressing the air.
Same +1
Fantastic! Thank you for your step-by-step approach and testing.
I really enjoy your videos, pure facts and results with proven explanations. Thank you for the high quality content.
Happy to hear it, thanks for watching!
would it be faster if it was black?
No, it'd just stop working
Not only that, but it would look bigger too
grandmasterii no coz compare it to a normal sc it has just a single layer the material of the sc if it was black it will be harder coz the paint will not help it cooldown (based on the black intercoolers video)
not black but red duh
Max Power i was saying "if it were black"
But will it beat my honda?!... oh wait 🤔🤔🤔
3:15 look at the smooth VTEC engagement with the boost. Nice!
Love this channel, you really get what the label says. Phenomenal job at explaining things
1 atm = 14.7 psi
Cole Robbins at sea level
Yeah, he said about 15. 15 is fine for "back of the envelope" calculations. Like acceleration due to gravity. 10m/s²
AlanS10 he said 15 at sea level, which to me is too innacurate of an approximation.
Temperature, humidity, regional pressure shifts, altitude... With that much variance, 15 is pretty good. I live in Oklahoma (Tornado Alley), and the pressure swings we have here daily are insane. Its like going to the 3.14159 on pi when really, 3 is close enough for a lot of things.
265, eh? Nice! Ready to race my 05 GTO yet?
I think you just saved me 10 mins thank you!
Cars Simplified hahahahaha he actually bought a pontiac.
my Granny has that same old car!... we call it the Vista cruiser cause its so big
Down a straight line? All you. Course with corners? That heavy boat is getting crushed. All the while consuming a third amount of fuel, cruising with the top down. But hey, you'll be a lot louder!
I'm in the middle of upgrading the suspension, so we are both making videos about fixing the weak points of our cars. I feel like a road course would be a fun close match.
Again. Love the video. From start to finish, very informative. You actually answered a few questions I had about this kit. Definitely think a standalone ECU would be the way to go with this kit. Now go tear up some canyon roads and if your ever in the Pacific northwest come to a few S2K meetings. Might I recommend the Mt. Baker run
Hey there Engineering Explained good to see the progress of your S2000 i personally have fallen in love with the color i.e. Yellow because yah its anyway my favorite color in person....Best Of Luck for Future Mods and Upcoming CZcams videos 😊
moooooooooooooooooooooooore poooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooower
methanol injection wouldn't hurt since your running the stock high compression.
great results for the stage 1 kit. that is a nice gain! Enjoy the gainz and rev it out on the track !
I like that you emphasize the power curve so much over the peak power numbers. People only look at the peak numbers and neglect the power curve as the advantage.
"A bit more conservative and a bit more realistic."
Political stance revealed
Well, he does live in Idaho. It adds up.
Except that seems oxymoronic. Oh don't teach them about sex education except don't have sex and they wont have sex. Give only the wealthy huge tax cuts and it will trickle down. The death penalty is a good deterrent. I am a stable genius.
We weren't making a political statement, just a joke. Chill dude.
Conservative and liberal are used a lot when comparing fuel use.
+DaSovietPotato Which is ironic since Conservatives love to use liberal amounts of fuel and Liberals want to use fuel conservatively.
10 psi or take it off lol
CZcams Connected I have a turbocharged vehicle and I wouldn't dare live at 6psi. 10psi is where life begins lol
Nah 14.7 is too much , it's rougly 1 bar .
I’m running 16lbs in my sos kit.. 423whp
He's probably high compression that's why he's running 6. 10 psi should still be well within its parameters.
I am running stock 11:1 compression too.. you can run alot more boost than that on these engines
Well that settles it. Was gonna do an NA build on my '98 aerodeck, but ill chuck in a supercharger instead! Looks surprisingly easy to do. (thats after ive stopped it burning oil of course haha)
Your vids are epic BTW, thanks
As I posted on your last video: You don't need another bung, all you need is a wideband that has a narrow band output. Take the narrow band output splice it into the positive for the O2 sensor, then put two 10 ohms 10 watt resistors inline for the heater circuit. Then you have one bung in your exhaust for the lambda O2 sensor and your ECU still gets the info it needs and you will not get a CEL. I used an old O2 sensor harness for this so it is reversible.
I used the Innovate kit, it has the wideband output 5v-1.1v, narrowband 1.1v-0.1v and a datalogger port. Doing what I am posting about makes it so you do not need to permanently modify your exhaust or wire harness.
This fools runnin a honda 2000..
So V-TEC needs a supercharger for its full potential.
*ricer goes out and buys fake supercharger looking fan thing*
Ajmal Najath vtec should really have a turbo because you can run lots of psi at high rpms
cole s | That was a joke.
I love cars but dont have the knowledge. Thanks for giving me some.
Very helpful! I'm tuning my 1936 motorcycle carb with a wideband O2 sensor atm. Good to know you can make good power in the fairly rich 11.4 - 12.2 AFR range.
Thank you Jason, for sharing your learning experiences with us! It's quite entertaining and educational. :)
"does that make sense?" turning a glorious naturally aspirated car into a boosted cougher... and gaining "only" 80hp, uhm no.
why? whats the drawback other than a bit higher fuel consumption?
Adding boost to a glorious naturally aspirated engine , just makes it more glorious .
It'll should still have most of the original character, it's just turned up to 11. No turbo lag and little boost at lower RPMs. It loses the VTEC kick, but only because it's already making more power. The only problem is that I've found big power road cars to be more fun for the occasional blip, but less rewarding, cause to get it anywhere near the limit you're going at going to jail speeds. Whereas a sweet handling low power car can be more rewarding as you extract it's best at far saner speeds.
He’s adding conservative, reliable, power. He explained this in another video that he wants to continue to have reliability so it can be a regular driver. He also touched on it at the end of the video
What's funny is my average MPG went up after the SC install. Highway MPG is over 30 easily now, too. At lower RPMs with less throttle, it seems to be more efficient.
That thing must be ridiculously fun to drive! Totally jealous!!
This s the proper way of boosting an s2000, as it keep it's high revving nature, awesome result Jason.
Great video on detailing the graphs. Keep up the good vids :)
So cool, i am glad everything works as it should!
The Brian coxs of cars and engineering 👍👍
Happy holidays I'll bet we will see some testing from this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great choice of car, love the colour and superchargering is a master stroke.
Gotta love the 5252 HP/TQ crossover point. Nice gains brother!! I bet the car is a blast to drive now.
Super sweet👍🏼. You are definitely deserving of that amazing Honda machine. A bit jealous lol but so happy your sharing your fun, learning and journey. 🤘🏻👊🏼👊🏼 have always loved all your content. Thank you
Thank you for getting right into the numbers
This car stock was already a blast to drive, I bet it's ear-ear non-stop grinning now (or more accurately again).
Love your videos thank you for all the informative helps...you always get really in-depth🙌🙌🙌✊✊😊
Love your videos and it totally look like that supercharger smooths out the vtec which is nice. If you want to get another large increase in power just do a port and polish.
Outstanding Video Dude!
Love it, can’t wait to drive my s2000 again.
Nice gain! Well done!
Hey Jason, Great vid. Will you be upgrading to a fully customizable ECU anytime soon to fix the A/R ratio and fine tune it? what ecu do you plan to go with ? just curious
Methodical 👍 and well done. Future upgrades a must..
VTEC ftw! Great vid!
Awesome bro! Your going to enjoy this! Lol you even looked happy talking about it 😂😂👌🏾
Will be a very fun car to drive now. It's around the same power as my s2000 with the hks supercharger kit.
Have fun with it now.
This is awesome, keep up the work!
Some day, could you investigate the proper and improper application of dielectric grease? I've always been under the impression it's fine to apply in and around connectors as the wiping force is going to wipe away the dielectric grease between the two pieces of metal (and the grease surrounding the contact will prevent air/corrosion from affecting the contact). My 80's Japanese cars (with poor connector designs) have dielectric grease in their connectors while my late model vehicles dont. You always hear people chiming in that dielectric grease between contacts adds resistance, on the other hand, so does oxidation. Cheers!
Can’t wait to see the Stage 2 install video XD
Good troubleshooting- make one change at a time. Have fun!
Can't wait for stage 2!
That body shop did a great job painting the front bumper. Looks good when the car is on the dyno
Couldn’t wait for that video 👍🏼👍🏼
Great gains!
Love these videos, keep 'm coming!
Test pipe will help that rich spot when vtec kicks in! Exhaust flow/bottle neck has been documented.
A header will be an easy way to add that exhaust port you're looking for.. Great vids!