Details Emerge Regarding Recent Qatar Airways Boeing 787 Sudden Descent Incident
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- čas přidán 14. 02. 2023
- In January, a Denmark-bound Qatar Airways Boeing 787 'Dreamliner' was involved in an alarming incident that saw the aircraft suddenly lose altitude shortly after takeoff. The plane dropped below 1,000 feet while flying over the Persian Gulf on its way out of the carrier's Doha hub. The pilots involved managed to safely recover, but concerning details have emerged as to the cause. Let’s examine this in a little more detail in today’s video.
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Not saying anything to passengers after this harrowing ordeal demonstrates a lack of duty of care for passengers. Imagine flying another 6 hours without any reassurance. What a terrible situation to be in.
Brush it under the carpet with no comment from the cockpit. Would have been more appropriate had they apologised rather than try and hide it.
Clearly it was not a matter of hiding it but deferring the consequences, maybe they wanted to get fired in Europe? The PIC should have made an announcement.
The most important thing to come out of this incident is that all pilots learn from this and be better for it.
Some will learn, the vast majority don't!
thank you Cpt Obvious, what would the world do without you?
So what did happen, exactly?
There are hundreds of incidents like this, some we feel them others we don't, but never forget the hard working crews behind the closed doors preventing theses incidents turning to accidents.
Huge respect to crews all around the world 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 🙏🙏🙏👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Irrespective of cause, it's really poor form on behalf of all the crew to not even address it to the cabin. Would have expected better from Qatar
It is poor form and negligent too!
I agree! I personally love Qatar Airways, now little disappointed by this reaction. I understand that they were in shock but silence does not satisfy the passengers.
@@AviationWorld-75 Boeing has huge problems last few years
@@kirilmihaylov1934 Yes, and this is advantageous for Airbus.
@@AviationWorld-75 yes
I passionately hate word salad statements from corporations. I have much more respect for a business (and people) who say things in a way that the population will understand instead of talking gibberish in the hopes of making yourself sound good. For me the statement by Qatar makes them sound weak. I find the "The airline follows the most stringent standards of safety, training and reporting and is working to address any findings in line with industry norms" to be condescending and demeaning. What I hear is "We want to sweep this under the carpet."
"Hi Ron, can we call you Ron?!
Here at BizCorp, as a valued customer your satisfaction is our highest priority! Rest assured your concerns have been escalated to relevant team members and will receive their utmost attention in resolving the issue to your satisfaction. We will reach out to you in no more than 10 business days with a progress update. If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to reach out again. Do have a fantastic day!"🤡
Also, if they really follow all of these safety precautions why would issues like these arise. When has saying you do something, and then something that contradicts it occurs, ever prove or stand as an excuse to anything? Obviously mistakes happen even at airlines with the higher of safety standards, but reiterating your safety policy doesn’t do anything.
@@tsikinite If Qatar's social media team sees this comments I hope they take it to heart.
I too agree with you. It almost seems churlish when they say "follows the most stringent standards of safety" especially when something bad has happened. There are way too many companies who do that. In India when Tata's Nano caught fire they called it a "thermal incident" in a press release using literally the same words used by Qatar.
I agree. It's even more worrying in safety critical industries like aviation, where transparency and accountability is needed to ensure it doesn't happen again. Boeing has demonstrated similar worrying disregard for safety following serious incidents in recent years.
I love how the flight crew played it off like a sudden drop of 850ft was all part of the show & went on like nothing happened while passengers were puking & screaming 😱 😆.
"keep quiet and nobody will notice..." 🤣
And did they still have flaps down and that mandates a return to base to check for damage.
Has to be some sorts of pilot errors that's why they said nothing.
the flight crew is incompetent young people not understanding what they are doing. As an engineer, I would be ashamed of hearing nonsense from a lady with a burgundy hat.
@@gregoryschmitz2131 a flap load relief on the 787 does not require any maintenance action
this should be seen as a very serious incident. the Pilot Flying losing situational awareness shortly after takeoff is no small matter. I hope Qatar and the authorities investigate this incident with the seriousness it deserves.
The same thing happened a few weeks ago - United Airlines flight out of hawaii a few weeks ago.
It is suspected that the altitude in the autopilot was left set to zero. Soon after takeoff the pilot engaged the autopilot and didn't notice that they were now in a steep decent until they were also @ around 800" above the ocean.
This exact thing also happened with emirates back in 2021
@@sns7743 in b777?
@@keyboard407 777 I guess. But it was in different circumstances
No or wasn't was reported the a sudden windshear down draft push the 777 into a dive. Quick thinking by the captain by engaging Toga on thrust levers and initiating an aggressive pitch up attitude recovered from the sudden dive..
@@sns7743 something wrong here
Eerily similar to the United Airlines Hawaii-San Fran flight on a 777-200 a few days ago
The United Airlines occurrence happened in December.
Was that a micro burst or something with control surfaces ?
@@YSLaurens Thanks for the clarification.
@@YSLaurens doesn’t make a difference.
@@tsikinite it does if you're researching it.
So you can't make a standard climbing left turn without the aid of a flight director? They need to start their training in Tiger Moths.
At lest a C-150 as its more advanced and you don't have to worry about the air noise!
That’s scary great video as always
They should share this memo with pilots all around the world keep keen eye on engaging and disengaging auto pilot during take offs.
Thank God everything is fine.
There is a bulletin for the B787 but not sure if its related... One aircraft had one RA failure and the aircraft activated its tailstrike avoidance by pitching down seconds after takeoff. So i think it might've been a similar issue as many similar incidents happened.
So.. he is about to crash a plane, because he needs to turn it manually....
Afterwards - no explanation to the passengers.
What a competent airline :)
Welcome to the Gulf region… where everything looks shiny, but really isn’t.
I did notice on my flight with them to Johannesburg last year in April on the 777-200LR the pilot adjusted the flaps twice during the takeoff at Doha even though the flap settings for takeoff get all sorted after pushback before taxing
You nailed it. Dude (or lady) turned off autopilot, an plane dives.
Unlike road travel, train travel... most airline incidents end up being an 'oops sorry' moment.. for two three people (like those in maintenance, refuellinf, cockpit crew).
I think the First Officer was fatigue on that incident flight after takeoff. Glad the Captain still maintain his situational awareness
because of that u think that?
How does fatigue have u put a climbing aircraft from take-off into a dive?
It's either a malfunction, emergency avoidance, or some kind of gross negligence.
And you’re able to base your opinion on what factors? Unless you know for a fact that this was the case, your statement is nothing more than an opinion.
@@brad9529Because fatigue increases the risk of losing situational awareness
@@brad9529 Well done Einstein.
Looks like a first officer will be looking for a new line of work
2:18 it says that the FO lost situational awareness as he was flying out of CPH. Shouldn’t that be DOH?
What’s DOH?
@@sam3407 Doha airport
@@sam3407 IATA station code for Hamad International Airport.
@@sam3407 DOH is the IATA code for Hamad International Airport. CPH is the IATA code for Copenhagen Airport.
Thanks guys for your input 🙂
Brilliant video
Scary 😳 Either pilot error or malfunction. These internal investigations remain internal.
But it will be thorough. 😶🌫
So much reliance on automation and flight directors can certainly be a good thing, but making a manual turn from 157-degrees to 110-degrees shouldn't be the cause of a loss of situational awareness.
Agreed and in fact its pathetic that the first officer can't fly.
Future Top Gun material
Would you like to try? Go speak with a pilot and ask for their thoughts!
@@reyeslee6115 Sure. Former USAF pilot and CFI. Have seen technology erode actual stick-and-rudder flying skills over the years.
@@kentd4762 8
Relying on automation and lack of situational awareness....oh and let's fly with one pilot....
@T S Your statement hits the nail on the head. With one pilot there is no redundancy and loss of situational awareness will crash planes.
Unprofessional communication via the flight deck.
There’s something missing from this explanation, no flight director guidance is not an adequate explanation for the first officer causing a dive while hand flying. Going from initial climb to a 3000 fpm descent requires a lot of forward force on the yoke and most likely nose down trim.
One of the pilot series on CZcams mentioned a auto pilot malfunction or the pilot not setting the auto pilot correctly.
So what you’re saying is that the fo can’t fly without Flight Directors.? Interesting!
PF did not maintain 15~18 deg pitch after takeoff maybe
It’s also funny when I flew with Qatars 787 there was so much paint pealing off the wing, exposing the carbon but apparently it’s only a problem on the a350 when you want to get a better deal on maintenance
Concerning is what it is.
As an armchair aviation expert, I suspect the pilot failed to verify that autopilot had engaged after pressing it. They may even have called it out. The observing pilot also failed to verify. They were looking outside and adjusting headings and not looking down. Perhaps an alarm went off from one of the flight warning systems and they finally looked down. Luckily they didn't panic and make things worse which has happened in similar situations (Kenya Airlines).
Very likely,But aren't they supposed to engage AP at 5000?
As a non armchair expert. I suspect you no nothing about what you comment upon.
@@riverfrontjerkfestival5579 nope. It depends. VNAV/LNAV can be engaged almost immediately.
@@markwood9755 Why's that? I feel like everyone talks non sense and no one really knows anything. Nonetheless, I think that the gentleman who provided the comment above really knows his craft.
@@ronandelana So what craft would that be then ? The armchair ! I would stick to your original idea about nonsense from unqualified commentators.
If a pilot cant fly a, hopefully, briefed left climbing turn without the flight director, then there is something fundamentally wrong. If a too late engaged flight director during a standard departure is enough for you to completley fall behind the aircraft, then I do not want to be on board the aircraft during a real emergency. Every pilot out there should be able to fly his plane pitch and power only.
Just why would they continue the flight , after getting an over speeding event for the flaps, and realizing that the FO is not fit for duty ? this is what i am wondering about. CB
My thoughts exactly.
Because they obviously did not realise that this occurred. There would have been no notification in the cockpit at all and I would imagine that they were preoccupied with regaining control than monitoring flap issues. At the very least, an ASR should have been filed on landing in CPH. Neither crew mentioned it or reported it, which in itself is appalling.
After flying for 20 years on U.S. Navy patrol aircraft as a flight engineer, I find this to be scary to the point that I might quit flying on commercial aircraft. There are no enough eyes in the cockpit and the airlines want to go to single pilot operation>
well in that case Qatar will become gulf Ryanair, well they are technically ryanair now, all newcomers coming from it. As fellow engineer, I can not understand why they do not have engineers on board. Oh sorry, we are too expensive. Instead of having incompetent cabin ladies.
Who is pushing for single pilot?! I hope not the FAA, TCAA, CASA, or CAA!
@@aletheagallacher4265Airbus and EASA are exploring the concept whist Boeing ruled it out entirely for the NMA or whatever new aircraft eventually comes
considering that there are 10-20k planes in the air daily (and about 1M people at any given moment), flying is statistically still the safest form of travel. That being said, I hope EASA and the FAA is tracking these events to see if cockpits are becoming too automated causing too many pilots to lack the requisite skill if something unexpected happens.
@@steinbockguy well you will not be able to fly if the hardware and software are not working, putting one pilot will lead to have two engineers with him going on board. Pilots are not trained engineers. They just know how to fly the plane
Still no update on this?
They were dodging paint chips from the A350 that took off right before them.
Is this similar to the United Airlines incident?
Qatar has quite a lot of problems some years now, The A350 SAGA, then the staffing problems now this… At least the quality of their service didn’t change… But I think Singapore Airlines or ANA would deserve to be the number 1. If you agree please Like! :)
Here in the UK some reported it as a 777 not a 787…
Thanks, I hope we don't have aircraft design problems, and airline's are covering something.
Because the crew continued the flight tells me this was a poor piloting issue and not an aircraft problem.
You'd hope, if it was a possible aircraft issue, the PIC would have immediately turned around, called an emergency and landed.
Instead, they went on their way.... 😬
Well this is the result of automation flying , nowadays pilot can’t hold the aircraft without automation. 300 feet climb and autopilot on
If this happened in the US, hundreds of FlightRadar watchers would have downloaded the history as all passengers posted the incident on social media (see recent UAL incident in Hawaii). An immediate FAA inquiry would have followed. Why in that Dohar airspace is responsible for watching, reporting, and investigating? Are they in the pocket of the governmental investors in Qatar? This is amazing that we are seeing this so long after the incident.
Yeah?I mean they grounded the A350 for safety reasons meanwhile the aircraft is flying all around the globe safely for more than a year now lolz
qatar is known for being fire hire company. They hide everything. If something goes leaked, they will fire or deport that person or put him into prison. That is how they work. They will shut your mouth with a 1 percent salary increase. That is why You do not see many westeners working there. Just people from the less economically powerful countries that want to help their families and etc. I do not know why people even coming there for work. Pilots are overworked, overpressured by reports of their colleagues especially cabin crews.
We heard of the incident right when it happened, it was reported on the news here in Qatar right away (3 or 4 days after it happened) and the Qatar Aviation Safety Authorities started investigations right away
@@SirEdmundBlack Thanks - that is good to hear. Are there any theories as to cause and any FlightRadar captures of the timeline and telemetry?
the qatar government always tries to cover stuff like this up, recording planes at the airport isn't even allowed in case anything like this happens
This is what happens, when airlines have sops that mandate pilots to connect and disconnect the auto pilot at a very low height. Pilots just don't really know how to fly the airplane anymore, and when a situation occurs to fly the plane without flight directors, they panic.
I agree, airline pilots have become button pushers. There has to be more pilot training to fly the plane not rely o all the automation.
@@richardkrentz7553 well the automation can fly the aircraft far more accurately. Human error is the cause of most aviation incidents these days.
That's exactly his point. Train the pilots to fly again so that they can become more proficient when dealing with situations where the auto pilot is disengaged.
@@TW19567 dont forget mcas. Human error is just a phrase company use to escape. Why not go deep to software as many of these are happening
I wanna fly to japan but the aircraft they are using is B787-9. How safe is it to ride in them now?
It happened to a 777 just a couple of days ago. My brother is a 777 pilot and his thought was that the weather may have played a part....ie..situational awareness!
Which weather..? Dude it was cool night no wind at all..
I would have thought that a pilot would have been relying totally on his instruments after take off not looking out of the window to see where he was.
It happened in December not a couple days ago
@Pissedoff Cow58 the 777 incident was in Maui in December 2022 a huge storm was passing thru the Hawaiian islands the same day as that Hawaiian airlines incident.
You said it was a clear day I was in Hawaii during that storm
@Pissedoff Cow58 apparently YOU DID NOT READ THE PERSONS ORIGINAL COMMENT
Read the original comment before replying dummy
nice!
so they instal MCAS to every plane eh?
alarming !! no comment from cockpit !!
QR recruitment is Bizarre. They reject highly experienced crews with clean career anything between 15-30 years of flying.
Bean counters, bean counters, hr, the people who deserve a very special place in hell.
yeah they rather recruit inexperienced pilots from india cheap labor for QTR cost cutting at its best
So where are the DETAILS?
Same incident happened with qatar in nepal
This report seems contradictory. Did the plane pitch down due to the loud sound or due to pilot error? And what was this loud sound? If it happened after the pitch, it could possibly have been aerodynamic noise from flap overspeed. If before, perhaps it was the cause of the pitch down. More info needed.
I was in something similar to this flight on southwest many years ago. The plane plummeted it felt like a good 20 seconds or so. Same as Qatar, no word from pilots or cabin crew. Pilots even kept doors closed while getting off the plane. Most of the time the doors are open but till this day I have no idea what happened 🤷🏻♂️
@Pissedoff Cow58 cockpit door is often open when passengers departing plane
They didnt want to stand outside the Cockpit and face whoever had any questions while passengers are disembarking... I know myself and I wouldn't keep myself from asking the captain for an explanation.
Flybe had a similar error in 2018. Climbed to 1,500 then down to the ocean recovered at 900 ft. Error was that the autopilot setting was incorrect and the wrong level was put in bringing them to 0ft. I imagine this is what happened in all these cases.
Waiting video on Air India huge order
Captain did a good job of recovering from dive.
Did pilot thought the plane is going to stall so pitched down to get the speed?
Makes you think that maybe he pulled the spoiler lever instead of the flap retraction lever.
So! Where are the details? This is the same airline that ran a 787 into a light pole in Chicago while taxiing.
it once happened by qatar to entebbe
So a modern aircraft can accidently be put into a dive towards zero altitude when its only a few thousand feet up? That sounds like a bad design to me. I hope there was a warning alarm in the cockpit.
Excesive Automation, then when is time to fly the plane by hand no-one remember how to do it.
Similar to recent United flight from Hawaii?
Same incident happened to Qatar Airways fro Doha to Kathmandu flight
No word afterwards?
I've seen planes emergency land for less.
nah if it was due to pilot error and not mechanical issues theres no need to land if there is no reason to suspect it is unsafe to continue flying.
I travelled recently and have to say Qatar Airways has not come out of Covid with the same passion for excellence that they used to subscribe to before .
In the 787 the trim function is automatic so it should be easier to fly than others. Even a Cessna pilot on Day 1 is taught how to read the basic instruments that will tell them how the aircraft is turning. It's a basic manuever. Can't read attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, vertical speed and heading? God...this is bad.
this is obviously speculation, but perhaps the FO is very new to the 787.
Interesting similar incident occurred yesterday. Hmmm
787 dreamliner.... same aircraft
Very similar
Obviously it had something to do with the Navigation system and the Auto-Pilot. Once Auto-Pilot was turned off, the Pilot was able to regain control and do a systems and Flight Navigation check to correct any issues.
...and how do you know this?
@@fahadfaisal7855 If your not a pilot or understand aviation equipment no need to explain
@@Charles53412 The autopilot was disengaged throughout the event according to avherald
@@almac8524 LOL which doesn't make sense ! Which means there had to be a loss of engine power if the it was being flown by the Pilot from take off. Once Climb rate is achieved and the plane is set on it's heading the auto-pilot is switched on. That happens right away after take off. So it doesn't make sense !
@@Charles53412 - I may, or may not be, a pilot, but I'm not sure if you know that engineers will always, always know the (aviation) navigational equipment better than the pilots! Always. But, let's say I'm neither...engage me. Start with PFD and MFD...let's talk a little about FMS and other onboard equipment that caused this in your opinion. When you can't come up with an explanation, don't allow yourself to be a sycophant for the two pilots who almost killed a plane load of pilots.
Just tell the passengers what truly happened and announce it as soon as possible.
The Airline should replace that first officer with somebody competent
I was very recently in that hub in Qatar on my way to Pakistan. This is no explanation at all!
And the added insult of not addressing the passengers after the incident? Why, among all the gibberish could there not at least been "Professional courtesy?" No one is perfect. My profession urges forgiveness, tolerance, patience, healing and many other virtues but it also demands consideration.
Alhamdulillah
A few people have commented on this already, but irrespective of the cause for the loss of altitude, the cabin crew, but especially the flight crew should have briefed the passengers with at least something. Qatar is one of the better airlines in the world but to simply mention nothing after such a terrifying event for passengers is unforgiveable, even if they bend the truth and blame it on something technical or anything to do with the weather. Saying something would have been far more respectable, instead they left the passengers with the possible feeling that something similar could happen in another part of the flight, for all the passengers knew.
This seems like a 737 MAX case.... mmmm very odd....
Too much dependence on automation and instruments that pilots are forgetting how to actually fly the plane by hand
Imagine if a similar incident like this were to occur with a single pilot.
Altitude alert not set. Was probably set to zero.
If the airline did not give a formal explanations, neither there is an investigation report yet, where did the presenter came with the "details emerging" ?
It was kane's penalty that smashed into the cockpit window
Nothing covering what the loud bang was... How come the First Officer managed to loss situation awareness for so long, when pax were vomiting in the back? Something doesn't sound right...
Manual turns from a B787 doesn't sound like good CRM in place. Require more light shed and accurate investigation.
It’s crazy how you can loose SA in a fully functional modern aircraft like this. Isn’t it basic skills to be able to climb and turn without flight directors?
This seems like poor CRM to me. And shame to Qatar! Not telling anything to the passengers are so below good standards 🤬
0159 departure time? Yuck. Sounds fatiguing. I doubt Qatar’s work/rest rules are on par with that of airlines flying under EASA and the FAA. Some flights schedules are worse than others, but I’d be curious to see the roster patterns of the crew leading up to this one.
Profit before safety
I hope the passengers got their money back.
Why should they? They made it to their destination. The only reason passengers would get compensated is if the flight was cancelled or the airline gave them very poor service. The only thing the airline should have given to the passengers was an apology and the reason for the sudden drop.
Why ?
@@PhorzaSky you don't think the sudden death-like drop followed by disrespectful silence was poor service? The passengers quite possibly spent the rest of the flight absolutely terrified with no way of escape. What a nightmare experience!
The negligence shown by the flight crew is astounding.
There were zero "details" in this video, as per the title. Just reporting what was already reported and reading a press release.
Another one?
Don’t they read out loud their FMA on Boeings?
Wow that’s very similar to United in Hawaii
Incompetent pilots all around...but no one will admit what incompetence caused this...remember...there are at least two pilots in the flight deck...and they're both responsible...BOTH!
As an Airline Pilot, I suspect a display fault on Co-Pilot side of created this incident.
I always have warned, that relying on Automation in Cockpit, has created a loss of Skills and unless crew hand fly the Aircraft to at least 15000 ft, so if computer failure happen's, there is a chance that the crew can recover, during my later flying there was a strong , by training to put the autopilot in at 400ft after takeoffs, which I totally disagree with
Why stop there? Why not get rid of RVSM airspace and have the crew manually fly the aircraft all the way to maintain ability? Why not have aircrew complete circuits every week just make sure they can hand fly a circuit proficiently. The automation can fly far more efficiently and accurately.
I think the captain should have returned to Doha and did something about what happened.
If there had been some malfunction with the aircraft equipment then returning would seem the right choice. The fact that they didn’t is almost like a self of human error that they then put right 🤔
@@eckie4679
I am not sure I would be comfortable flying with that copilot. How can you guarantee he would not make another error if you depended on him?
The flight team was not coordinated, the same event occurred with the United Airlines flight after taking off from Maui in the Hawaiian Islands over the ocean. The loss of situational awareness. Retraining so that the airline team fully communicates with each other seems key here. I know I will not fly anywhere anytime soon. It’s just not worth the risk.
I suspect the VNAV profile on the FMC was incorrect. When the AP was engaged the vertical profile was active so the AP followed it. FLCH can fix it by dialing 250kts or higher. My opinion.
Anyone here after the 777 united incident
Watch your KIAS, always ...
2:16
I believe the origin was DOH - not CPH
👍🏻 CPH was the destination.
most of these issues are 99% due to pilot error.
Just like the United flight.
And this was "breaking news" bcuz?