Roger, I gave this video a big thumbs up and a mention to your YT channel for inspiring z-cam E2 - F6 videos in my latest video which I won't post a link here as I realise is not YT etiquette, but, again, thanks for this.
I won this and these crops are HUGE. Thanks so much for the video it looks like C5K 60 or 1080 120 is the way to go - most of the others are such a massive crop. I'll have to rest it myself to take a look at noise and other factors, but using as much of the sensor as possible - at least in my experience - usually gives the best look regardless of 'resolution'. Thanks for putting in this effort though, it's very well laid out and I know it takes a lot of work so very much appreciated
Appreciate the comment and the support! I believe that the E2-M4 is a better choice if high frame rates are important. For me it's always 25fps (or 24 in rare occasions), so I prefer the bigger sensor from the S6.
@@RogerinFinland yes i had some typo's - I own the S6 and am happy with it. I also shoot 24fps 95% of the time - but There are times I shoot slow motion (and used to do it a LOT more) and prefer 120fps - 60 is ok too. I have a feeling the next evolution of z cam's will do better in this dept. I'd also want variable physical ND but that's a separate topic. Like you, I also think 2.8k is a great option and I use it, but looking at the crop on that resolution is SHOCKING! lol... so if I were to do another project in that resolution and needed high FR I'd switch resolution to C5k or 1080 - now If I needed slow motion on a project of a higher resolution THAT I need to test because I've shot so far in open gate and C4k - enjoying both but I'd worry about sacrificing too much quality shooting HFR in those modes.... if of course delivery is in 4k - if not and it's HD then it doesn't really matter.
@@RogerinFinland yes, although my crop comparison is against 6K, not full gate. I did notice however an intermediary step at 2.8 K 50, where the crop is 1.5 ~, not 2.2~.
super super handy info to be put together - cheers Roger - I'm not sure if I love the S6 after almost a year now. Just haven't been able to get out and about and film alot due to needing to set the camera up alot and I don't have a car so it's just a bit difficult sometimes. I'm trying to find a bag I can use so that I can have it all rigged up while I'm outside.
Súpervisual la comparativa! I si, unes imatges valen tant com mil paraules! Molt interessant, i pràctic pels que utilitzeu aquests artilugis! 👌🏻🤩🔝😎👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
On another video, you used the hdmi out to the Ninja V, and according to your chart, was able to get 5k 6:5 to output as UHD 60. Is there a crop there or does it look the same as 23.98?
I don't quite remember the use case, and I didn't calculate the crop factors of the HDMI output. Keep in mind that if it is 5K 6:5 internally, UHD into the Ninja is pretty different aspect ratio. I suppose it outputs black bars (can't remember + no longer own the Ninja V). With all this said, I think that whatever is output via HDMI has the same crop than internally (albeit different resolution).
Great video! thanks so much ive been looking for this specific info for like a week and its nice to finally find it all in one place. one question i had thought, in 4K UHD the charts states that it starts to crop at 60FPS, does that include 59.94 NTSC? and what is the crop factor at 59.94 / 60fps? that would be the most useful data for me as it is the frame rate that i use the most day to day
I think the answer to that question is likely a small novel. Do you mean recording ProRes Raw? Or "normal output" to the external monitor? If it's the latter, the output resolution of the camera depends on the internal recording resolution and frame rate (due to processing power limitation). I might do such investigations, but I haven't quite started.
I did take a quick look, without precise calculations. I hope it's good enough for you 👍🏻😊 - 4K UHD, with VFR at 72p and 75p has a crop of 2.5 - 4K UHD, with VFR at 60p has a bit of a crop compared to 25p. Eyeballing it, I'd say that if 25p is 1.6ish, 60p is maybe 1.8ish - 4K UHD, without VFR, project settings at 59.94 does have the same crop than 60p and VFR (a bit more than 25p, but much less than 72 and 75p)
@@RogerinFinland wow thanks so much for looking into this! the Info regarding 60P crops will be very useful as I prepare to purchase this camera. As for recording externally to the atomos, I was just hoping that maybe recording externally, in simple proress 10 bit, UHD 60P would somehow allow for a full width sensor redout if the cam doesnt have to record internally. This is enough info to help me make an informed decision though thank yo uvery much!
Happy to help! I sure that if you set up the camera at 4k UHD 60p, the HDMI will be at best the same crop, and could even be 720p output resolution! The camera kind of expects recording internally unless you use ProRes Raw, and it saves its processing power sacrificing the HDMI output.
What’s the field of view crop (horizontally) of the 5k 6:5 anamorphic? I know it must be around 1.6 as it’s view of crop is wider than 6k 16:9 (1.67) I’m mainly asking because I like shooting anamorphic
It's 1.54 👍🏻 I made another video about the crops with normal frame rates so if I didn't show the full table in this one, for sure it's in the other one 😊
My guess is processing power. The full sensor has a certain native resolution. If you use the full sensor but a smaller resolution, the camera needs to down- or oversample which does take processing power. When cropping, specifically in the S6, the pixel ratio is 1-to-1, so the camera doesn't need to do the down- or oversample and therefore less processing power. If it would have more processing power, it would likely be also more expensive and so on. I'm sure that for some other cameras overheating is another concern, and using less of the sensor real estate does help on that at the cost of the crop. But these are just my guesses, I suppose some manufacturer would tell you a better story :D
Roger, I gave this video a big thumbs up and a mention to your YT channel for inspiring z-cam E2 - F6 videos in my latest video which I won't post a link here as I realise is not YT etiquette, but, again, thanks for this.
Much appreciated!!! 👍🏼😊
I won this and these crops are HUGE. Thanks so much for the video it looks like C5K 60 or 1080 120 is the way to go - most of the others are such a massive crop. I'll have to rest it myself to take a look at noise and other factors, but using as much of the sensor as possible - at least in my experience - usually gives the best look regardless of 'resolution'. Thanks for putting in this effort though, it's very well laid out and I know it takes a lot of work so very much appreciated
Appreciate the comment and the support!
I believe that the E2-M4 is a better choice if high frame rates are important. For me it's always 25fps (or 24 in rare occasions), so I prefer the bigger sensor from the S6.
@@RogerinFinland yes i had some typo's - I own the S6 and am happy with it. I also shoot 24fps 95% of the time - but There are times I shoot slow motion (and used to do it a LOT more) and prefer 120fps - 60 is ok too. I have a feeling the next evolution of z cam's will do better in this dept. I'd also want variable physical ND but that's a separate topic. Like you, I also think 2.8k is a great option and I use it, but looking at the crop on that resolution is SHOCKING! lol... so if I were to do another project in that resolution and needed high FR I'd switch resolution to C5k or 1080 - now If I needed slow motion on a project of a higher resolution THAT I need to test because I've shot so far in open gate and C4k - enjoying both but I'd worry about sacrificing too much quality shooting HFR in those modes.... if of course delivery is in 4k - if not and it's HD then it doesn't really matter.
Nice, did the same test myself a couple of weeks ago, as Im shooting the S6 through a microscope and wanted to calculate correct scale bars.
Did you get the same results?
@@RogerinFinland yes, although my crop comparison is against 6K, not full gate. I did notice however an intermediary step at 2.8 K 50, where the crop is 1.5 ~, not 2.2~.
Another very informative quality video of yours! Thanks so much for this.🙏👍
Thanks for the support! 👍🏻😊
Wow thank you for the hard work.
Thank you for the comment!!
Man You're Clever!
Much appreciated! Hopefully the video was helpful as well 😊
super super handy info to be put together - cheers Roger - I'm not sure if I love the S6 after almost a year now. Just haven't been able to get out and about and film alot due to needing to set the camera up alot and I don't have a car so it's just a bit difficult sometimes. I'm trying to find a bag I can use so that I can have it all rigged up while I'm outside.
Yeah, I use a Tenba Cinelux 16 and I keep the camera fully rigged always insider.
@@RogerinFinland awesome advice mate, thanks that bag looks big enough for it for sure
Súpervisual la comparativa!
I si, unes imatges valen tant com mil paraules!
Molt interessant, i pràctic pels que utilitzeu aquests artilugis!
👌🏻🤩🔝😎👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Gràcies!
Thank you for this video
Happy to help 👍🏼😊
On another video, you used the hdmi out to the Ninja V, and according to your chart, was able to get 5k 6:5 to output as UHD 60. Is there a crop there or does it look the same as 23.98?
I don't quite remember the use case, and I didn't calculate the crop factors of the HDMI output.
Keep in mind that if it is 5K 6:5 internally, UHD into the Ninja is pretty different aspect ratio. I suppose it outputs black bars (can't remember + no longer own the Ninja V).
With all this said, I think that whatever is output via HDMI has the same crop than internally (albeit different resolution).
Great video! thanks so much ive been looking for this specific info for like a week and its nice to finally find it all in one place.
one question i had thought, in 4K UHD the charts states that it starts to crop at 60FPS, does that include 59.94 NTSC? and what is the crop factor at 59.94 / 60fps? that would be the most useful data for me as it is the frame rate that i use the most day to day
also would anyone happen to know if the crop is still present in 4k while recording externally to an atomos ninja v?
I think the answer to that question is likely a small novel.
Do you mean recording ProRes Raw? Or "normal output" to the external monitor?
If it's the latter, the output resolution of the camera depends on the internal recording resolution and frame rate (due to processing power limitation). I might do such investigations, but I haven't quite started.
I did take a quick look, without precise calculations. I hope it's good enough for you 👍🏻😊
- 4K UHD, with VFR at 72p and 75p has a crop of 2.5
- 4K UHD, with VFR at 60p has a bit of a crop compared to 25p. Eyeballing it, I'd say that if 25p is 1.6ish, 60p is maybe 1.8ish
- 4K UHD, without VFR, project settings at 59.94 does have the same crop than 60p and VFR (a bit more than 25p, but much less than 72 and 75p)
@@RogerinFinland wow thanks so much for looking into this! the Info regarding 60P crops will be very useful as I prepare to purchase this camera.
As for recording externally to the atomos, I was just hoping that maybe recording externally, in simple proress 10 bit, UHD 60P would somehow allow for a full width sensor redout if the cam doesnt have to record internally.
This is enough info to help me make an informed decision though thank yo uvery much!
Happy to help!
I sure that if you set up the camera at 4k UHD 60p, the HDMI will be at best the same crop, and could even be 720p output resolution! The camera kind of expects recording internally unless you use ProRes Raw, and it saves its processing power sacrificing the HDMI output.
What’s the field of view crop (horizontally) of the 5k 6:5 anamorphic? I know it must be around 1.6 as it’s view of crop is wider than 6k 16:9 (1.67) I’m mainly asking because I like shooting anamorphic
It's 1.54 👍🏻
I made another video about the crops with normal frame rates so if I didn't show the full table in this one, for sure it's in the other one 😊
i dont know why any camera crop its really ridiculous.
My guess is processing power. The full sensor has a certain native resolution. If you use the full sensor but a smaller resolution, the camera needs to down- or oversample which does take processing power. When cropping, specifically in the S6, the pixel ratio is 1-to-1, so the camera doesn't need to do the down- or oversample and therefore less processing power. If it would have more processing power, it would likely be also more expensive and so on.
I'm sure that for some other cameras overheating is another concern, and using less of the sensor real estate does help on that at the cost of the crop.
But these are just my guesses, I suppose some manufacturer would tell you a better story :D