The Rise and Fall of the Catholic Apostolic Church
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- The Catholic Apostolic Church has declined nearly to non-existence. How did this happen?
Some images provided by Apostolic History Network/Netzwerk Apostolische Geschichte e.V., www.apostolische-geschichte.de
I’m guessing there were many Catholics from out of town that walked into “Catholic Apostolic” churches, thinking they were about to attend Holy Mass.
How many Baptists walked into a church dedicated to St John The Baptist?
@@jeffkardosjr.3825we owned that term for well over a millennia before that form of prots hijacked it
My family was catholic apostolic going back several generations. Im a practicing Christian in the episcopal church. I watched this with a mixture of sadness and hope that we can learn from the past
in what way sadness and hope?
I've never heard of this denomination before! This is especially surprising to me, because I was raised Pentecostal (this was clearly a proto-Pentecostal movement) and I was also a follower of the Convergence Movement (e.g. the Charismatic Episcopal Church) for several years. I remember investigating movements and/or ministers who advocated for incorporating the spiritual gifts into a liturgical + sacramental setting, but I was not aware of this one. You're quite the Historian!!
I never heard of it either but find it very interesting
Just another one of the many "false/mislead" churches out there.
@@johns1834 - The purpose of a church is to satisfy and fulfill the need of it's congregants, no matter what they believe. If God is total and complete than what could possibly God need or require from needy human beings? The church you attend is there to satisfy and fulfill YOUR need and not Gods. As I previously stated, God being total and complete needs nothing from you or me for His fulfillment because He is already fulfilled.
@@ulysse9471 No Sir. Your idea "no matter what you believe" is flawed. The Church teaches the "ONE" path to salvation given to us by our Lord Jesus Christ and NOT from individual interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20
@@johns1834 - I do not follow what's written in any of the "sacred books." I get directly in touch with the Divine Source where I gather my knowledge. Thank you.
It's so weird (and tragic). The church in the thumbnail is by one of the busiest streets in Copenhagen. Thousands of people pass by it every day, thinking it's just another church, not knowing the tragic history. AFAIK, it's closed off to any visitors and the few descendants who still use it have denied giving any information about it's current use... A few years back it was apparently renovated, but nobody knows who paid for it
not exactly what I'd call tragic, as pathetic :/
Were I a Copenhagener, I'd make it a personal mission to get a camera inside there come what may.
Thank you so much for this video. My grandfather was a deeply religious (in his old age) Afrikaans man. He belonged to the New Apostolic Church, and while he talked about Christian doctrines I was familiar with, I always felt I was missing something about his belief system. This lecture has helped a great deal to bridge that gap.
A Pentecostal-type revivalist sect choosing to LARP the traditional high church aesthetic rather than the Congregationalist aesthetic is an interesting outlier.
It's not as much of an outlier as you would think. Its self-destruct mechanism is definitely unique, but I have seen at least a few black Protestant pastors who dress up in stuff that wouldn't look too out of place in a Catholic church.
@@HolyKhaaaaan I think if asked they would say they are imitating the ancient Israelite temple priests and that's their excuse to be fancy.
They would never be caught dead trying to directly immitate the high church liturgy though I'm sure they all secretly wish they could but their target audience wouldn't stand for it.
Yet another wonderful video, Joshua! Thank you!
I am a priest of the Church of England and recently did a month's locum at the Anglican chaplaincy in Utrecht in the Netherlands. Many of the congregation were Catholic Apostolic, who looked to Anglicanism for the sacraments while continuing to meet in their own building nearby for prayer services. The former CA building in London is now let out to a variety of organisations, and Anglican services do take place there, but it is not a Church of England building.
The group Joshua is discussing is a pentecostal protestant organization.
You are talking about the Old Catholic Church - which exists in the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany and Austria. It is officially called the Union of Ultrecht. There is an extensive article about old Catholics on Wikipedia. The Roman Catholic Church considers their orders to be valid, yet obviously not licit. They were the people who held the Catholic Church together during the protestant crackdown period in the Netherlands. They broke away after Jesuits were sent into replace them. They had traditionally been allowed to appoint their bishops without Rome's approval. They also oppose papal infallibility and the Latin mass.
@@Austin8thGenTexan No, I am in fact talking about the Catholic Apostolic Church. I am well aware of the Old Catholics (and have met the Archbishop of Utrecht) with whom Anglicans have been in Communion since 1931, but the Catholic Apostolic Church also has a presence in the Netherlands. They look to Anglicanism for the sacraments since their last priest died in the 1950s; the Old Catholics still have clergy. Apparently the Catholic Apostolics approached the Old Catholics for an arrangement (which would have given them worship in their own language) but were rebuffed.
(To be honest when I was told they were Catholic Apostolic I assumed they were Old Catholics and wondered why they didn't worship in their own churches, given they had their cathedral and primatial see there, and that I thought the Catholic Apostolic Church had died out, but it was all explained to me!)
@@paulfarthing2807 Thanks for explaining that, father Paul. I had never heard of this sect, and hastily jumped to a conclusion.
My ordination as a priest is in the Old Catholic tradition/succession, but the Union of Ultrecht does not exist in the United States. The Polish National Catholic Church however, does - but it does not allow female ordination. There are many autocephalus independent Catholics in the United States who call themselves Old Catholics, but they are not. More bishops than priests, more clergy than communicants. I occasionally serve the host and read the gospel during an Episcopal Eucharist, but do not concelebrate with the priest. Otherwise I assist at Holy Family Catholic Church and minister from my neighborhood oratory. Much of my work is with the unchurched and street people - and many folks who have fallen away from regular Christian community (of any denomination). Texas greetings to you on this first day of April!
🌷🌷🌷
Very interesting. So many cults and strange sects emerged during that 1820s-1830s time period, including JWs, Mormons, SDAs, Church of Christ, Christedelphians, etc. Now we can add the Catholic Apostolic Church to the mix. ✝️🙏🏼📖
I always find it interesting when someone tries to include the C.ofC. in these lists. The very definition of "cult" proves my point,no prophet, no special authority, no exclusive dispensations ,no extra Biblical texts, ect. How could a simple Bible believing Christians be a cult/strange sect. Admittedly our acappella brethren seem a bit excessive, but not UnBiblical .
Frontier culture and revivalism at work.
America had a deep problem with mammon worship from the beginning. It started with the ultra-Reformed people basically allowing people to believe that the way to know if God had predestined them to election was if he was blessing them with material things.
From there it spiralled out of control as people frantically searched for emotional confirmation of their faith any way they could get it. That's why groups of people went out into the woods of Upstate New York to seek personal revelations from God. As the frontier expanded westward, revivalist culture kept getting weider and weider until the fonteir finally closed in the 1910s.
@@tomkraft3931
You have an unorthodox view of “orthodox” 😇. Most doctrinally “orthodox” Christians would say that naming/appointing 12 new apostles and setting a false prophecy date of the 2nd coming of Christ circa 1864, would certainly qualify this group as a cult. In fact, the obsession with prophecy and date setting of Christ’s return seems to be a common thread amongst many of these lunatic fringe groups. That trend continues to this day. ✝️🙏🏼📖
@@RepublicofE The Catholic Apostolic Church wasn't American, let alone "frontier".
@@thursoberwick1948 I know. I watched the video.
They were in the Revivalist tradition though which was an American frontier thing.
Could you consider a video on Catholic Charismatic Renewal? It would be interesting to get a better understanding of what the Holy Spirit is doing in a different church tradition
Charismatic movements are extremely dangerous. Stick to reason and history
It's first mistake was thinking Reformeds would accept any church with "Catholic" in it's name that has a high altar, vestments, the Eucharist and bishops 😂
What's wrong with the Eucharist and Bishops? Aren't both in the bible?
@@haroldgamarra7175 His point is that Presbyterians historically don't like those things and so trying to start such a movement in a Presbyterian church is like trying to be a super pro-life politician in the Democratic Party. It just doesn't make sense for you to try it.
Are you familiar at all with the Mercersburg movement? It was an attempt by Dutch Reformed churches in the USA to realign themselves with what they perceived as the Church of antiquity. Basically, it was the Reformed equivalent of the Oxford/Tractarian Movement that resulted in the rise of Anglo-Catholicism in the 19th century.
"High Church Dutch Reformed" may sound like a contradiction, but Mercersburg theologians like John Nevin and Philip Schaff instituted a formal liturgy with written prayers, replaced the communion table with an altar, deemphasized the role of the sermon, and adopted a pattern of worship much closer to Lutheran or Anglican practice than other Reformed or Presbyterian churches. This may have something to do with the fact that Schaff came from the United Church of Prussia, which featured an amalgamation of Reformed and Lutheran practices. While I can't find any evidence that the Mercersburg churches abandoned elders for bishops, Nevin, in particular, did refer to the Lord's Supper as the "Eucharist," in his book, "The Mystical Presence."
I can't find any information on congregations that still cling to these ideas, so you're most likely correct: Reformed folk probably didn't warm to it in quite the same way as its founders.
@@RhenishHelm I haven't heard that before but I do know that during and after the original German unification movement in the 19th century, the German princes/kings tried for several decades to force the German Lutherans and Calvinists to unite into one super-denominational state church.
Werent they forced to name themselves by the government? thats how this name came about.
It seems like Revivalist sects always had a tradition of just finding as many church office titles as they could find in the Bible and ripping them from their historic context to shoehorn the names in as grades of their LARP group.
Let's have apostles, prophets, priests, rabbis, judges, bishops, deacons, elders, and evangelists all at once and just put them in a rank system according to how important each word seems to be in our English translations. Totally a rational way to govern a church.
I think most churches have priests and elders, many have bishops and deacons too. Don't know of any with rabbis outside messianic Judaism.
@@thursoberwick1948 priest=presbyter=elder
@@michaels4255 These are rarely synonyms in English, and the word "priest" is used to translate several terms in Latin, Greek and Hebrew.
@@thursoberwick1948 elder is a standard English translation of presyteros (although elder also translates geron which admittedly risks some confusion when thinking about the underlying Greek concepts), and priest is just an abbreviated form of presbyteros (which keeps it distinct from elder/geron), so exactly identical. Just look at the etymology: priest
@@michaels4255 I think you're confusing etymology with meaning here. For example, the English words "skirt" and "shirt" have the same root, and one can see that to this day, but they mean something quite different to one another in modern English. The same applies to "priest" and "presbyter".
This is definitely one of the most interesting denominations you've covered
I thought you'd post soon, so I hit it right on the mark :)
Your videos are amazing. I'd be happy to see one on the New Apostolic Church. Thank you for everything you have created so far.
If I remembered correctly, there is a huge church near UCL (University College London) is Catholic Apostolic Church but the building is now used by the Church of England. The interior is very high church and the building is huge. I have visited it in mid-80s while I was studied in London.
Yes you are right .It's a beautiful building, but I don't think it is still in use, at least not as church and not open to the public.
It is today used by a conservative evangelical church attached to the Church of England ; I used to attend bible study there a couple of years ago.
@@valarhelnandor5909 Interesting
I think Irving's movement was preceded by the occurrence of the "charismatic" gifts in the congregation of John MacLeod Campbell in Rhu, formerly Row, Scotland. I understand Campbell, who himself was accused of heresy for teaching Christ's atonement for all mankind, declined to join Irving's church. For those who disdain the church's claiming the titles Catholic and Apostolic, it should be noted that all churches who adhere to the Nicene/ Constantinopolitan Creed and the Apostles' Creed, hold themselves to be part of the one holy, catholic and apostolic church named in those creeds.
This was fascinating. As an Eastern Orthodox Christian there's quite a contrast.
What an irony, this is why the church should never be established on false prophecy. If prophecy is not confirmed, then it is false and will inevitably bring dissolution.
Most churches nowadays are established on no prophecy.
@@thursoberwick1948 Oh no they have prophecy on which they are established.
It's called the Bible.
@@RepublicofE They're not even based on the Bible, a lot of them.
And how do you know what is false? Only one answer, if it hasn’t been validated by the Catholic Church, it is false. The Catholic Church goes back to Christ and His apostles, by the power of the Holy Spirit the Catholic Church chose the biblical canon and defined doctrine such as the Trinity. All others are just people doing their best, often in serious error, to interpret the Bible that the Catholic Church canonized…
@@billmartin3561 The Orthodox Church wrote the Bible
EXCELLENT report! Very good research.
Thank you!
I just bicycled past the New Apostolic Church here in Malmö, Sweden and wondered who they were. I was going to google it later this afternoon, though I just opened CZcams and one of the top vids the algorithms showed me was this
As a past NAC deacon we can talk.
Thanx, Joshua 🌹🌹🌹
What a strange journey from Calvinist to Penetcostal to Catholic.
Absolutely fascinating! There is a beautiful CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH here in MANHATTAN at West 57th Street +11 Ave. But it hasn't been an Edward Irving church for years. I had interest in Pentecostal history for years. Amazing how the CAC incorporated Pentecostal and High church liturgies.!
What kind of church is it now? I should go have a look sometime.
I’m looking this up on Wikipedia, is it Our Saviour New York? That looks like a pretty church.
@@WeibenWang I haven't been there for some time....I have to walk over there!
Hey, Would you be willing to do a deep dive into the history of the Anglican Catholic Church (ACC) and do a compare and contrast between different continuing Anglican movements?
I second that. I've looked into and even been to an Anglo-Catholic service (several times), and still don't understand how it's different from the RCC apart from the papacy.
thank you very much for this.
Can you do a general video on revivalism and the Great Awakenings?
I had an Uncle and his parents who were members of this church. When he married my aunt he became a Southern Baptist, because that is what happened when people married into our family.
A video idea for the future. You should do one for the uniting church in Australia, the rise and decline of the uniting church in Australia and it's complicated future of the congregations.
Edward Irving had some great prophetic insights from the Scriptures around the imminent return of the Lord Jesus Christ for His church. He was closely associated at one time with those who went on to become prominent among the Plymouth Brethren. I believe J.N. Darby was at one time open to the recovery of the apostolic sign gifts but the practical example of their supposed operation within the Catholic Apostolic church convinced him against their continuance and he started to espouse a cessationist position. Irving also adopted sacerdotalist elements and veered off into teaching baptismal regeneration. I think one evangelical commentator at the time who knew him said he had a sanctified heart but a shame his brains weren't sanctified to the same extent. In his early ministry, he had the endorsement too of the great Thomas Chalmers who was instrumental in the formation of the Free Church of Scotland. Chalmers may well have been that very commentator. There are more convincing accounts of supernatural foresights and prophetic utterances in the witness of John Knox and the later Covenanters than what proved the case with the followers of Irving. Irving is often held up as a forerunner to the pentecostal movement and usually to discredit them. That is not altogether fair as pentecostals have generally been much more Biblical in their soteriology (Oneness groups excepted) than what the Catholic Apostolic church took on.
What I find fascinating is how low church the New Apostolic Church is compared to the Catholic Apostolic Church. Its a shame to see it nearly extinct I wonder how much in common thier liturgy is to the New Apostolic Church of today.
these guy were making a "catholic" church and forget to add Apostolic Succession in it. what a bummer. luckily we have a church which has not forgot to implement it, and coincidentally she's also catholic :)
The Roman Catholic church was the pioneer of pretending to be led by latter-day apostles.
@@RepublicofE No one in the catholic Church says they are an apostle. The bishops are the successors of the apostles.
There is a difference.
@@boredpotato2291 I'm aware that they don't literally claim it so maybe that was a low blow.
Even so, the doctrine of papal infallibility makes me see not much of a difference.
@@RepublicofE Well it's still better than having to leave people to understand a complicated set of documents like the Bible by themselves.
There needs to be an authority to ensure unity and orthodoxy, otherwise it all just turns into a heretical hodgepodge.
@@boredpotato2291
Unity
Orthodoxy
Pick one
How is the sacrament of “Sealing” different than the sacrament of Confirmation in the regular Catholic Church (headed today by Pope Francis)? The sacrament of Confirmation includes the words “Be sealed by the Holy Spirit”.
Roman, not "regular", Catholic Church.
I think in this particular context it was put into an apocalyptic expectation, that you were "sealed" with the name of the Lamb (Rev. 14:1). It is comparable to confirmation, but it has more of an apocalyptic connotation when viewed in this manner.
@Michael Fox It's a big difference, because "catholic" means "universal", and the Orthodox are very much part of the catholic (aka universal) church whereas they are very much *NOT* Roman Catholic.
In the NAC the laying on of hands Or Holy Sealing is considered a sacrament where a portion of the Holy Spirit is dispensed to enter the soul. At times I've witnessed Apostles dispensing extra Holy Spirit to during ordination as well.
Can you do a video on Assemblies of God and Christian Missionary & Alliance? I've heard of an event or conflict between Christian Missionary & Alliance boys have gotten in a fist fight with Assemblies of God boys in Springfield, Missouri. I don't know how true that is and I cannot seem to find anything about this.
I go to one of the CAC affiliated churches in South Africa. Indeed the history of the church is very rich. In the South African Family Tree of the Catholic Apostolic Church we also have New Apostolic Church, Old Apostolic Church,Twelve Apostolic Church in Africa, Twelve Apostles Church in Christ, and my denomination is The Twelve Apostles Church in Trinity. My church alone has about 5 million members in Southern Africa.
Almost every 5th person you pass on the streets is somewhat affiliated with apostolic faith with roots from the Catholic Apostolic Church in Germany. So it is very sad to hear that the German branch has closed its doors when the gospel is still moving like big mamma's hot cookies in other regions of the world, though under different church names.
The team of Apostles who brought the gospel to South Africa was made up of Germans and Australians. Three Apostles' names from the late 1800s and early 1900s are still very popular in SA. Apostles Niehaus, Klibbe and Nino are among those CAC members who led the mission of the CAC in South Africa but because of the South African context they had to register the church with a new name. And many more splinter denominations where formed separating themselves from.the orignal denomination. But I am too young to know all the history.
Josh, please do some investigation of the Catholic Apostolic Church in South Africa, it will definitely shed some light why the New Apostolic Church claims to be modern day CAC.
As a member of the New Apostolic Church i can say i love everything about it. Just the fact that no one involved in it gets paid a salary from the church blows peoples minds.
You're right, brother! I am NAC from Athens, Greece.
For all those that thought Pentecostalism began with Azusa street in 1906, this is proof that there has always been Revival.
Fascinating account of a vanishing denomination. I was hoping the video was about the Roman Catholic Church. Some day ...
Intriguing stuff. The Catholic Apostolic Church in Maida Avenue, London, is impressive, huge, dates from 1891 and is immaculately maintained.
I would be interested to know how it ‘s upkeep is paid for.
I did a bit of digging. Apparently its upkeep is accounted for under registered charity № 245205. In 2022 it received £156,700 of which it spent £112,400.
Is "sealing" something like a sacramental view of confirmation?
A lot of more traditional churches have a semi-sacramental view of confirmation so I'd say it goes beyond that.
A lot of revivalist sects/cults were founded on the idea that the church needed to be something akin to the earthly covenant nation of Israel. That's probably what they meant.
Sealing is a way someone can receive the holy spirit. I am part of the new Apostolic church and when I was a baby I got baptized, and then sealed. Confirmation in our denomination is a way to take responsibility of your faith if you were baptized and sealed when you are a baby.
Out of interest, are you going to try and look at Denominations outside of America (Canada, Europe, Africa, China, ect)?
This is a Scottish denomination. Not the first one he's covered either. He has done things on Oriental Orthodox (middle eastern) ones.
It is also pretty common in some parts of Germany. They are mostly looked upon as strange people who believe strange stuff. But this would also be the case with most evangelicals. Because religion is more part of the general culture here than something that people really believe in (people that are younger than 70 mostly only go to church on Christmas).
The catholic Apostolic Church lives on in Africa.The main body is called the Old Apostolic Church (OAC).I would confidently say their presence in the Southern African region (SA,Zimbabwe,Botswana.Etc) is much stronger than that of the New Apostolic Church.Even though apartheid occured in SA,it didnt seem to affect the OAC much as it is well attended and represented in Black,Brown and White communities.Honestly, some of the finest people i have known have been from the OAC.We have had neighbours and good friendsthat attend the OAC and we'jonestly never had any issues with them.
@@evertonbouwer4038 True in that region not so much elsewhere. It's some time in Early 1900s where it was a court that decided that one group would be the OAC and the other would retain the NAC. Later in 1920 another fracture in Australia lled to the NAC and the Apostolic Church of Queensland under Apostle Niemeyer. Both denominations are still active there with the ACOQ recently growing outside of Australia.
How did anyone know they were speaking in tongues instead of just speaking Glaswegian?
The term is called *glossolalia* a tongue twister in its self.😂
But....they aren't Catholic...
Catholic doesn't just mean Roman.
@@thursoberwick1948 right, right, very true, "catholic"means "universal". "Catholic", however, means a denomination of Christianity. I understand that there are different Orthodoxies as well. Roman, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox Catholic churches. But a Protestant church called catholic apostolic isn't a Catholic Church.
@@thursoberwick1948 Catholic (or Katholos in the Greek; kata + holos) means, "according to the whole".
@@floydfan82 Still used in that way, as in "I have catholic tastes in music" (nothing to do with religion).
Since when have minor details like facts or accuracy ever stopped a cult from "borrowing" labels to draw converts? The Christian Scientists (who are neither) come to mind, as do the Mormons, who call themselves "The Church of Jesus Christ" despite being nothing of the sort...
The Apostolic Catholic Church: based in Rome and founded in 33 AD, largest Christian church in the world
Catholic apostolic church: some random stuff.
This is why we need to be able to trademark our name lol
I hear that. One thing I really dislike about the Catholic Church in general is their abject refusal to stand up for themselves, instead they let everyone and every anti-Catholic organization stomp all over them. We need the church militant back, defend the faith, defend the Holy Church.
The first established churches were in Jerusalem, long before the gospel was even preached in rome. This is basic bible knowledge. Read the first 8 chapters of Acts.
@@DominicNJ73 catholic inquisitions and murdering and torture of christians??? No thanks.
Nope the catholic Church was not found 33 ad.
False teaching like maryology.
You may be interested in the Polish National Catholic Church. The only old Catholic movement in the west that’s both stable, and recognized by Rome as having Holy orders.
I think we do still recognize at least some of the Dollingerite ordinations (provided they've been ordained by men and are men, of course)
I like St Stanislaus Cathedral in Scranton.
The "Catholic Apostolic Church" was a fraud. It was neither Catholic nor apostolic. It was protestant.
So - then what is the New Apostolic Church and how did it descend from this?
I'll tell you one thing lately have had to deal with many issues concerning leaders being NAZI party members and leaders who prophesied the return of Christ in their lifetime and forced the minister's to preach that narrative to the congregations. It was called the *Botschaft* by leader Chief Apostle Bischoff and wreaked havoc on many members and ministers resulting in multiple splits in the 50s and 60s and if course Bischoff died in 1960 and Christ didn't return. The explanation given at that time was *God changed his mind* . There was some discussions about reconciliation with NAC and the splinters to perhaps reunite during the 2000s with the NAC appointing a committee from it's own to decide on its explanation of those times. Unfortunately the reconciliation never occurred as the answer given passed blame on leaders of the splits and that we were all to believe what we like😮 about the failed prophecy
before the time of silence, a prophet in the Catholic Apostolic church recognized priest Rudolf Rososchacky (a younger priest) to become an apostle. The rector of thr Hamburg congregation Friedrich Schwartz also recognized it. But the rest of the church did not. So, They split from the Catholic Apostolic church and started to ordain apostles into the NAC.
HMM... Somehow it seems, that no man would raise something like this... Man (false teachers) want power, money, status and keep things to work for themselves... In the bible we read of how the disciples did not understand Jesus our Lord... And the goal was to renew and prepare the church - not to form a denomination... I can't come to the criticism of most other commentaries under this video...
addition: I could find a chapter in a book about them: Kurt Hutten - Seher, Grübler, Enthusiasten - das Buch der Sekten. It is German but expressively explains why it is not a sect.
So I read more and found out: They clearly never meant to build an own denomination. They preached in Europe and even told everybody to stay in their congregation - whether Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian etc - They believed to work for Christ to reunit the Chruch and prepare it for the coming of Jesus. At a later stage people that where cast out, just like Irving, of their own congregation came together to do services and than these developed into the "catholic apostolic" denomination. I read the picking of a name was forced by the government. They needed to have a name so they named themselves, just like the Church of Jesus Christ (regarding the creeds) is - "catholica et apostolica ecclesia". So they have nothing to do with the papacy and catholicism. Very interesting. They see themselves as part of the church and are encouraged to join, if needed, the services of other (state) churches/congregations. I found nothing else that is different to what Joshua is explaining in this video.
Wow never heard of it
Incredible story
What are the doctrines of the Irvingites?
I don't understand why they didn't replace the "apostles" and let their denomination die like that. Where was the logic?
It was not a matter of logic. An Apostle can not be called or ordained by a human. Only the Lord himself can do. So this 12 english apostles also never had been "called" by a prophet - they were just "confirmed" through prophetical speaking. So the "logic" was: as long God does not choose new apostles there is no way to fill the gap of the pasted apstoles.
There was never a felt necessity that this "Work of the Lord" should continue for ever. It was more like a pattern to show all splitted churches the pattern of a restored church to encourage all Christians to restore their forgotten hope of the return of Christ to his Church.
The New Apostolic Church didn't followed this teaching - like all other apostolic sects - they wanna keep the business running.
Why weren't the apostles replaced when they died in the time of Peter? Paul and Barnabas were not of the original 12. So why could they not ordain new ones back then?
How come you don't talk about the LDS Church?
I've mentioned them a few times on my channel, but there are thousands of denominations, so I still have many I have not got to do a detailed video on. (Only been making videos regularly for two years and I work a full time job).
@Ready To Harvest Thanks, I still have a lot of your videos to watch.
@Ready To Harvest do you have a email for a private conversation?
@@Xeromith you can email me joshua@readytoharvest.com
@@ReadyToHarvest ok, thanks
Is this the breakaway church ? Oh they are protestants .. Sounds like Mormons .. This kinda sounds like a blend of catholic and mormons
Nothing much like either.
@@thursoberwick1948 apparently you weren't paying attention
@@xadam2dudex Apparently you are unaware that I knew about this church before this video... it was a significant denomination in Scotland in its day, and I know it well not only from books, but from their buildings. A good pal of mine lives precisely one street away from one of the churches in the thumbnail for this video.
@@thursoberwick1948 How nice
@@xadam2dudex Nice but true. My knowledge doesn't just come off this video. (Good as it is, which I expect from this channel.)
Each [was] assigned. (They were assigned.)
A bit like what happened to the jews after the temple was destroyed and all the priests had died
The jewish priesthood can still be reestablished, the cohens are still here. And also, the jewish priesthood, after the second temple was destroyed, just ceased to make the sacrifices at the temple, but they were still there as members of various jewish denominations, some even joined the pharisees - later rabbis.
@@TwizzElishus You know how a lot of Irish American families have a habit of just making up elite clan heritage?
Pretty sure the modern so-called Cohens fit that bill.
What a sad story of entirely preventable decline.
FIRST COMMENT!!! WOO!!!
I'm a member of the original church Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal our roots go back to the early church of the book of Acts this church had to go underground because of the dominant church of the dark ages the infamous Roman Catholic Church persecuted them killing them because they cling to the truth of the Apostles doctrine Acts 2 38 the exiting religion hated the name of Jesus and hated the bible I know attend a UPCI church in Delhi California
No one has the authority to preach ! ! ! - yeah that is in the Bible . . . .
High church pentecostals? That's different!
Looks like the gates of hell might not have prevailed against them, but the tides of time sure did
too many people looking for evidence? bummer.
At least the Millerites evolved into something else when their founder's end of the world prediction proved untrue.
I don't get choosing to remain loyal to a cult that will not even try to adapt to the failure of its initial prophecy.
Some would argue that Christianity evolved in such a way initially.. I don't agree with that, but it is notable that in the NT Jesus does talk about "this generation".
Sad end of a denomination unable to react with reality.
The gates of hell will not prevail as promised by our Lord. We'll be back stronger than ever in a couple of years.
Wait, are you speaking of the restorstionist churches?
Yeah, prevail against the actual Catholic church.
It's pretty interesting because the Church of Pope it's called the Catholic and apostolic Church. Literally just an "and" of difference😅
Every Church claims to be The Church.
I thought the Catholic church already claimed to be apostolic
Just one more example showing that when you cut yourself off from the early church fathers and tradition, people make $hit up that is just wrong. Study the early church, how they worshiped, and what they believed!!!
Yes, It's written about in the bible! Acts describes the earliest church and the epistles were letters to the churches!
How deceptive to call it that.
They are neither Catholic nor Apostolic
And probably not a Church
Reminds me of the self-titled "Christian Scientists", whose teachings are neither Christian nor scientific...
The Roman Church already beat them to the punch in terms of claiming to be led by latter-day apostles long before.
Now THAT was a weird movement! At least they had a built-in expiration date...
Too bad all premills don't have expiration dates. "Jesus didn't return when you said he would. You lied. You're a false prophet. Goodbye."
This is the church equivalent of click bait.
Catholic means Universal our church UPC. Is a universal church everybody needs to obey Acts 2 38 if you black white brown yellow red blue you must be saved from hell
So its basically Catholicism mixed with penecostalism? Mmm interesting mix
Meanwhile the real Catholic Church was like: O_o
You know its a false Church when men ordain Apostles
I’d never heard of this denomination. As to me there is only One Catholic and Apostolic Church. That is the universal Church under Rome. The oldest and only church founded by Christ Himself so I would recommend we stick to the original. God Bless
Is this what Justice Barrett was a part of?
No, Barrett is a Catholic and a member of People of Praise, a Catholic Charismatic group. I also have a video about them on my channel.
That's nuts!
Jesus Christ established the only true church, called the Catholic Church with it's 1.2 billion members which continues to stand against the gates of hell today. Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
@@sonnygram9457 No other church mentioned in the bible either. The word "catholic" means universal.
The reason the Roman Church has 1.2 billion members is because the three great Catholic empires managed to get first dibs on the New World through military force.
It has nothing to do with being the "default" denomination of Christianity from which all others "split".
@@RepublicofE Not even that's true. Some forms of Asian and African Christianity had little or nothing to do with Rome.
Right on John!!!
@@RepublicofE Which 3 great empires are you talking about?
Imagine having your whole family left at the altar for about five or six generations straight because they continued to choose to follow a group of false prophets even long after those false prophets had died and their prophecies had been proven false.
My mother belonged to the Catholics Apostolic Church and was married in Camberwell. She inflicted her second coming and judgement beliefs on us, as well as taking time to tell God what to believe in. There was no joy in this Christianity, just foreboding and warnings about sin.