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The CRAZIEST QUARTERBACK CONTROVERSY in 49ers HISTORY
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- čas přidán 29. 07. 2021
- The starting quarterback got hurt. The backup quarterback switched to defensive back... twice. The two quarterbacks that the team acquired in a trade or on waivers outright refused to play for the team. The other backup quarterback got cut. The head coach resigned. In the 1963 NFL season, that's the bizarre quarterback controversy that the San Francisco 49ers found themselves dealing with after John Brodie got hurt. This is the story behind the madness
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#nfl #49ers #nflthrowback
Quarterbacks involved in the controversy:
John Brodie
Sam Etcheverry
Lamar McHan
Bob Waters
Ralph Guglielmi
Members of the 1963 49ers:
Bob Waters
John Brodie
Lamar McHan
JD Smith
Kay McFarland
Howie Williams
Dale Messer
Bernie Casey
Lloyd Winston
Jim Vollenweider
Joe Perry
Bill Cooper
Tommy Davis
Jimmy Johnson
Mike Lind
Kermit Alexander
Abe Woodson
Don Lisbon
Eddie Dove
Elbert Kimbrough
Karl Rubke
Mike Dowdle
Ed Pine
Matt Hazeltine
Roland Lakes
Mike Magac
Chuck Sieminski
Roy Williams
Walt Rock
Charlie Krueger
Leon Donohue
Leo Nomellini
Clark Miller
Clyde Brock
Len Rohde
Bruce Bosley
John Thomas
Bob St. Clair
Gary Knafelc
Monty Stickles
Daniel Colchico
Clyde Conner
Red Hickey (head coach)
Jack Christiansen (interim head coach)
Back when players made more in the off season than they did playing football.
And owners became extremely wealthy off the blood of those players…
" . . . which is worse than if you spiked the ball on every play." Whew! I was getting worried -- we haven't heard that for a while!
While watching these (awesome, I'll admit) videos, I tried a "spike the ball on every play" drinking game. It ended when I awakened in an alley with no pants. Also, my hangover was significantly worse than if I had spiked every beverage I drank that day...
Hah! Excellent. If the OP put the phrase "spiked the ball on every down" on a 20-oz. coffee mug, I would buy several. And yes -- awesome videos: hear hear!
Just when I try to sit down at my computer, I see JaguarGator9 has a new video...and I'm completely useless for 20 minutes
This has to be the craziest quarterback controversy in NFL history. Number two might be what happened to the giants in 1971. Official Jaguar Gator 9 made a video about that quarterback controversy as well.
He made another video about the 1971 Giants in which Rich Houston went between offense and the secondary like Bob Waters did.
"Context" comes in at 1:20 - seems a bit early but "spike the ball" comes in at 6:59 which is rather late. Keeping us watching, not too bad.
This might be the greatest research you have ever done on an unbelievable story. Never heard of this one before....and those facts truly were unreal. This was a fun one to follow along. Many moving parts, for sure. Great job. Awesome channel! Keep up the great videos/stories.
Seriously. CBC video from, what, the late 50s/early 60s? Great stuff.
What aggravated the situation is that QB/RB/WR, BILL KILMER had been in a carwreck two years or so, before, so they had no in the pinch qb scenario to fall back on.
Eventually, KILMER rose like LAZARUS, and resurrected his career in NEW ORLEANS, and then later in WASHINGTON..
Maybe if Billy Kilmer hadn't fell asleep and drove off the Bayshore Freeway into the San Francisco Bay in Dec 1962, he wouldn't have missed the entire 1963 season with a broken leg and the former first round pick could have started some games at QB for the 49ers
Another small QB controversy to a degree was in 1991 when third string QB Steve Bono replaced Steve Young due to injury and went 5-1 as a starter finishing 4th in QB rating in the league. Steve wasn't really a proven commodity until 1992. Fortunately Steve Young returned in the 1991 season finale and destroyed Chicago on MNF.
It's insane the 49ers had Montana, Young, and Bono all on the same team.
Never again in pro football will you see a QB wear number 92.
That was surprising. Those films are from his days with the Montreal Alouettes. The narrator is a nice guy who means well but he doesn't really understand the old days and he can't being a young kid.
And a wide receiver in number 75
Nor will you ever see that number in Montreal. That is 1 of 7 numbers retired by the Alouettes franchise.
At least their fortunes changed the next year when they got George Mira and Billy Kilmer who, incidentally, was a part of one of the most infamous plays in NFL history in 1964. Against the Vikings, Kilmer caught a pass from Mira and was stripped. Jim Marshall picked up the fumble and ran 66 yards the wrong way for a safety.
Kilmer was already there but was recovering from a near-fatal car accident and missed that entire season
You glossed over how, instead of giving up an equal star for four-time Pro Bowler and future Hall of Fame QB Y.A. Tittle, the Giants parted with guard Lou Cordileone, a second-year player from Clemson who had been a first-round selection in 1960.
Lou himself - in history of the 49ers video - said his reaction was, "They gave up Tittle for me?!?"
I was watching this video going where's Billy Kilmer in all this? It turns out he was out with a leg injury that season.
JG9 your a freaking workhorse bro. Another great video.
They should have just kept Billy KIlmer and let the other stiffs go.
Kilmer over Brodie ?
@@eddiekulp1241 I meant Kilmer as a back-up to Brodie.
Brodie’s daughter married NFL quarterback Chris Chandler.
Wow!
Do you remember another QB Jim Druckenmiller? believe
lol. The league is trying to forget him.
I do.
How about Giovanni Carmazzi, the QB the 49ers drafted ahead of Tom Brady in 2000? Tom Brady was meant to play with San Francisco, but they blew it!
@@misterresister8271 Giovanni never played aa down, for the 49ers. He never got a chance. Gino Toretta was a Heisman Trophy winner, but never much played much.
Love your posts......they are a real treasure of history and the formative, good old days of this great sport.
John Brodie would go on to be a great player on the PGA Senior tour.
How about other 49er QB controversies like when Steve Spurrier went 6-2-1 in replacing an injured John Brodie in 1972, only to have Brodie come off the bench in the season finale to throw 2 TDs in a 4th quarter comeback must win against the Vikings, leading to Brodie starting the 1972 NFC divisional playoff game against Dallas, which they lost in miraculous fashion thanks to Roger Staubach. Or when Steve BeBerg and Joe Montana were battling it out in 1980? Or when WR Freddie Solomon played QB extensively against the Lions in 1978, going 5-9-85-0-1, rushing for 42 yards and a TD, and even catching a 50 yard pass?
This channel is so fantastic!!!
1. At1:38, that looks like an A-11 snap to Y.A. Tittle.
2. Gugliemi retired, but didn’t come back? This ain’t a true JG9 video unless he comes back.
Nah, it’s not a true JG9 video unless he came back from retirement and had a passer rating of less than 39.6, which would be his passer rating if he just spiked the ball into the ground on every play.
Why was the 49ers old logo a guy shooting at his own farts?
Maybe drunk 19th century folks shot and danced at the same time,. Or the logo maker was an idiot.
Bob Waters actually was the first starter in the shotgun position and was the key to their undefeated start in 1961. The Bears stopped that and a severely broken arm is the reason Waters didn’t take over the position for good after 1961. The plate placed in his arm caused grip issues. Waters was faster and had a stronger arm than both Kilmer and Brodie but the the injuries took their toll.
Depending on what happens, the 49ers may have another QB controversy on their hands soon…
Not really. Jimmy will be an unrestricted free agent for 2023. This year will be his chance to show the rest of the NFL if he can stay healthy and what he can do after another season ending injury.
Teams tend to make trades on the final year of a deal, which is what 2022 will be for him.
I cannot imagine a scenario - that doesn't involve something catastrophic for Lance - where Trey is not the starting QB for the 49ers in 2022.
Even if Jimmy wins MVP and the super bowl (which, seriously, do MVPs even win super bowls? Seems like a curse), the 49ers will just use that as a way to flip him to get draft picks back they spent to get Lance. The G in Jimmy G now stands for gone.
@@PaulGaither The last MVP to win a Super Bowl in the same season was Kurt Warner in 1999…LOL
But I do want Jimmy Garoppolo to start the whole season and do well so he can get traded-the 49ers need some picks back!
As a lifelong 49ers fan, thank you @JaguarGator9 for reminding me that Tim Rattay was actually in the team.
Elvis Garback
Thank you for mentioning Sam "The Rifle" Etcheverry and his Canadian career. He was Eastern MOP (Most Outstanding Player) twice, 6 time All-Star, and once won the MOP for the entire league in Canada in 1954. This was slightly before the CFL days. Though he never won a Grey Cup, he established many passing records, one which still stands being the all time single game Grey Cup passing record. His number 92 is retired by the Alouettes, one of seven to be honoured. His name is on a facade at the Percival Molson Stadium.
He got to the NFL since he signed a no trade clause with Montreal before the 1960 season. The owner then attempted to trade Etcheverry the Hamilton Ti-Cats, which was vetoed by him, causing free agency. He then signed with St. Louis and the rest is NFL history.
That team was Terrible. Worst offense in the NFL out of 14 teams and nearly the worst defense. Only things they had going for them on Offense were Bernie Casey and on Special teams Abe Woodson. John Brodie got hurt. Otherwise he would have started more then 3 games. Both McHan and Waters would be Candidates for the worst 100 Pro QB list. Since like 1950. Sam Etcheverry came to the NFL at the end of his Career playing two years. He ended up in the CFL HOF. An old Gym Teacher I know Actually played in the CFL a little. Gugliemi is another Candidate for the worst QB List. If Brodie was Healthy there would have been no Controversy he would have started.
Fun fact: Lamar Mchan competed with some guy named Bart Starr for the QB job in Green Bay.... I guess we know how that worked out.
McHan was the starter at the beginning of Vince Lombardi's reign, but Lombardi changed to Starr after the team had a mid-season slump.
@@orbyfan Worked out pretty well for GB....
I must admit I recently started seeing these and im amazed by these videos keep them coming. Would love a baseball one if u could
Quality content like always!
Brodie was a great quarterback that came along at the wrong time the 1960s was a pretty heavy quarterback era.
Sam Etcheverry's arm went bad on him near the end of the 1960 season, which is why the Alouettes traded him to Hamilton after the season. He claimed the trade violated and voided his contract, and thus went to the Cardinals, where he confirmed that his arm was gone. I'm surprised that this video didn't make at least some mention of the 49ers' brief success alternating Brodie, Kilmer, and Waters in the shotgun in 1961.
The tackling is horrid in the 60s. Imagine what a todays practice squad pro LB wouldve been like then.
I see better tackling in Women's rugby at the Olympics. That is not meant to be disrespectful to the women, they really go out an hit each other.
@@johnharris6655 i agree. Back then they must not have taught to tackle low.
These guys were head hunters and shoulder tacklers.
The early 1970's might have been their best window but when the offense came around their defense stunk it up in fact there offense was the highest scoring offense for a few years.
Couldn’t beat Dallas. Lost three years in the playoffs to them from 70’ -72’.
@@jdsoultrn you made my point.
Tom Brady: “there’s a wrong side of 30?”
Which is worse than if you spiked the ball into the ground on every single play.
You really have to do a video of quarterbacks spiking the ball and just doing a play by play call. We would all like that.
It's wild because Steve Young was switched to DB at BYU because his QB coach "didn't coach lefties," but then someone new came in, saw him throwing the ball between practice and asked Young why he was playing DB. Young answered him, and the new coach told him to immediately switch back.
Brodie should be in the Hall of Fame.
Lamar McHan was in a QB controversy with Bart Starr. McHan was a starter in ‘59 but was replaced by Starr halfway they the season. In ‘60, Lombardi alternated QB’s until mid season when Lombardi settled on Starr as the permanent starter, McHan was let go at seasons end. He went to Baltimore then Frisco, then to the CFL for a brief stop with the Argonauts I think.
Hickey and McCann bother played college ball at Arkansas, although about 12 or more years apart.
Love your videos bro awesome work as always bring the olds days of Football back to life. The only complaint I have is the spiking the ball the for the entire game and you'll have a better QB rating lol. I know its true but its kinda getting annoying. But anyway bro keep up the good work.
I know Bill Kilmer had finished college, UCLA but was involved in very serious accident & there were doubts if he would play football after that. Funny it wasn't mentioned in the video as to what his status was. Bob Waters would later coach college football at East Carolina and pass away from ALS, like two other 49er teammates, Gary Lewis (RB) & Matt Hazeltine (LB).
I thought Kilmer was still there in 63. Was that the year of his car accident?
Probably the worse logo in NFL history
50s art/design was either really beautiful...or this
Where did third-year quarterback Billy Kilmer figure in this? Red Hickey had him, John Brodie, and Bob Waters alternating roles in his shotgun offense in 1961, and Kilmer committed the fumble (after catching a Brodie pass) infamously returned by the Vikings' Jim Marshall for a 49ers safety in 1964. Did the events described in the video coincide with Kilmer's absence from action following a near career-ending auto accident?
This is one of the best football history vids I've seen in forever! I love your channel and the amazing research and footage you find. I had no idea of this controversy, and it's the craziest one I've ever heard of! You could only imagine how it would've played out had their been the internet, sports talk tv/radio, etc back then
Oh and I'm a big fan of Brodie being voted into the HOF. He and Y.A. Tittle were the original great Niners QBs
A word about Y.A. Tittle: He was the 2nd best QB in the NFL at the time. Only John Unitas was better. There were just 12 teams in the NFL at the time so the level of quarterback play was very high. For example the 1958 Packers had four QB's in camp; Bart Starr, Lamar McCann, Babe Perelli and Len Dawson. They were a last place team. They cut Dawson. Red Hickey traded Y.A. because he wanted to run the Shotgun full-time and needed running QB's and Tittle couldn't run, so they traded him. It was Hickey who invented the term "shotgun" but it took him some time to realize that the shotgun couldn't prioritize the run as NFL defensive players are too big and fast and began to rack-up his QB's. The shotgun faded until reintroduced by Tom Landry as a passing offense.
Niners dysfunction in the early oughts: so bad that sometime in (I believe) 2004 someone on their staff produced a video featuring a guy of Asian descent talking about Tim Rattay, Andre Carter and I think a couple of others using double entendres. It was a demeaning production in so many ways. I don't know of it can be dug up and tbh I'm fine if it never can be.
what WOULD the QBR be if you spiked the ball to the ground every single play?
I was looking forward to this being about the Niners taking Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers. My fellow Packers fans thank you.
Coaches name was *Red Hickey*
The best advice to these young athletes, STAY OUT OF NIGHT CLUBS!!!!!
I liked that old 49ers logo in spite of some if the haters in this section.
John Brody wasn’t a bad golfer either he played 12 or so years on the senior tour after he retired from football!
I'm surprised the team didn't consider Billy Kilmer an option. Kilmer was already on their roster as a QB/WR during this time.
Are we going to discuss the dead body on the field? 6:52
Brodie should be in the Hall along with Gene Washington 🏈
Wow
58 Years Ago
Seeing that thumbnail made me think of a cluster fuck.
For the love of god, the wrong side of 30 applies to RBs not QBs. They don't hit the same wall at 30 that RBs typically do. In fact, many play better in their 30s than their 20s.
Dude, they did until about 2000.....or after.
@@johnt.kennedy3856 Bullcrap. The very guy he referenced had his best season at age 37. Many QBs played well past 10 years throughout the history of the NFL.
@@johnt.kennedy3856 he's right. Age really doesn't matter for a QB. However, it should be noted that until recently QBs didn't immediately start instead spending their first couple years as backup.
This was a bit better video because the background noise was not as loud as some of your other videos. So, I'm going to give it a Thumbs up. The next thing you could do is shorten the videos and GET to the Point.
This is a lame story
Jesus Christ