💡 Watts vs Lumens: The New Lighting Standard You Need to Know! 💡
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- 🌟 Welcome to another enlightening episode of Electrician U! Today, we're diving into the bright world of lighting, discussing why lumens should be your go-to metric instead of watts. 🌟
00:00 - Intro: You Shouldn't Be Talking About Wattage
00:11 - What are Watts?
01:19 - What are Lumens?
02:14 - Luminous Efficacy
02:38 - NDR ORBIT and RAZOR
04:01 - Comparing Incandescent, CFL's and LED
05:44 - Outro
🔎 First, we break down what watts really mean - they're all about energy transfer, from the utility company to your light bulb. But here's the catch: watts don't tell you how much light you're actually getting. In fact, in an incandescent bulb, a mere 1-2% of wattage is converted into light; the rest? Just heat!
🌞 Then, we shift our focus to lumens - the real deal when it comes to measuring brightness. Whether you're choosing a headlamp or lighting up your kitchen, lumens are what you should be looking at. And with LED lights, the wattage can be deceiving since their lumen output varies significantly.
🔍 We also touch on luminous efficacy and how it's reshaping our understanding of efficient lighting. Plus, a shoutout to our sponsor, NDR Electric, for their innovative products - the ORBIT and the RAZOR. Check them out at ndrelectric.com/.
👉 Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe for more electrical insights! And as always, stay electric! ⚡️
💡SPONSOR - NDR LIGHTING💡
ndrelectric.com/
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#electrician #electrical #electricity #lumens #lightingtips #LEDtechnology #energysaving #electricianlife #brightideas #efficientlighting #modernlighting
I still pay attention to wattage because here in AZ, keeping any heat down in the living space is very important in keeping a cool home during summer.
You’re great teacher of Engineering of Electrical 😊.
For nearly a hundred years we got so use to associating a brightness to a wattage amount. Wattage association will be with us for a little while longer till genx and boomers fade.
What a great explanation! You always translate technical topics into understandable formats. You’re a master at both organizing concepts and selecting tangible, relatable words. 👏👏👏
I Really appreciate your information! It just keeps getting Better! Thanks for all your hard work and time!
I agree. This is gotten even more complicated as some bulbs report "equivalent watts" which is even messier.
Even better (at least for lighting design), we need to think Lux (lumens per square meter) as that is want really affects things. The higher a light is the wider area it will cover and though it is the same Lumens, it will result in a lower Lux.
Thank you for this video!!! for the past 18 years I have been explaining this to homeowners, business owners and yes designers. As LED technology became more main stream it seemed like I was having this conversation more often. I will now just share this video and let you do at the talking. All the best!
Another excellent video, thank you.
Great information. Looking forward to the next video.
Loving the content
loved the fun editing on this video!
Lol when I see all the LED light bulbs trying to compare themselves to incandescent equivalents, I just think of all the toilet paper companies with their advertising "4 mega rolls equals 8 regular rolls!" or "4 jumbo rolls equals 12 regular rolls!" lol ... okay.
Me so happy when video drop! 🤤
Thank you for all the information you provide. Heat is definitely a concern Olight put out a pocket flashlight that was running on a single 18650 battery, and delivered 1000 lumens. There were reports of them producing so much heat they were burning people when accidentally turned on inside of their pockets. Since the flashlight was in such an enclosed space, the heat had nowhere to dissipate, and just got more intense. It was enough to melt the plastic lens.
I myself have a flashlight that's rated for 1000 lumens, and I can attest it does get hot with max power, and extended use. In this case heat is your enemy because it drains the battery faster, and can cause it to become chemically unstable, and off-gas as a result. Batteries can swell, and even explode if they get too hot.
Can you also talk about code requirements for lighting in different spaces or even parking lot lighting?
Since you talked about lighting and LPW (L/W= LPW) Can you address DRIVERS and why some lights are more expensive than other. Specifically dimming drivers with the right dimming switch. I put in the thin wafers in my basement remodel and after three years they are fading badly. Great Channel, keep up the content!
I replaced all of the canned lights in my house with LEDs. They have great retrofit kits for this purpose. The connector just screws into the existing socket. I did find the LED lights to be a bit too bright for routine usage, so I fitted dimmers on those most used lights. (in some cases I had dimmers anyway, just make sure your dimmers can handle LED lights) The full output of the LED lights I bought are great if I'm trying to find something, but usually have the LED lights turned off.
I watch you a lot and I’ve learned a fair amount from you. But, at around 1:20 you said that in an incandescent bulb, wattage “doesn’t have anything to do with the brightness of the light”. I disagree. I get that 98% of the energy is wasted in heat but I grew up with incandescent bulbs and not once, EVER, did I come across a 60 watt bulb that outshone a 100 watt bulb. I never heard the term “lumen” till LED’s came on the scene. Not saying the word was coined for LED’s but the fact is that back in the day, brightness was equated to wattage, every time. Maybe we thought about it all wrong but that was where the rubber met the road. Just saying….. keep up the good work. I enjoy your channel.
great video, so, what about the Lux, a lumen over square meter ??
The next generation of lights could possibly be sulfur bulbs. Only thing is they are not meant for household uses. They are supposed to be for auditoriums and gymnasiums. I read about some museum maybe in DC they used just 3 sulfur bulbs to light up the whole place. It was used in light pipes and that was the only time I have ever heard about them. Why I don’t know.
I am old enough to remember “candlepower”
Love the anology with the car illustrations with the car leaking oil while driving.very informative usual.
We used to call it Candle power,
Another sometimes overlooked item that can be more or less important depending on application now that the days of incandescent and halogen are in the rearview mirror, is color rendering index, this measures how accurately colors appear under artificial light sources, using natural sunlight, or 100, as a reference. Incandescent /halogen have 100 CRI. The extreme opposite would be a low pressure sodium lamp with a CRI of 0, everything has yellow version of black and white appearance. Most LED lamps for general purpose lighting on the market these days has a CRI between 80-90, although some specialty LED's can have CRI as much as 99.
Working in industrial maintenance several years ago the overhead lighting (HID) were not delivering the light (lumens) needed on the floor to get the manufacturing job done safely. No requirement in standards so management was very resistant to change, ($$$). We got a test area done at the end of the budget year and found that the workers in that section were more productive. "We need to do the whole plant." After the change over we realized savings in electrical cost and safety. “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good.
There are actually OSHA standards and they are in foot-candles not lumens. The difference being the height at which the luminaire is installed. The overwhelming majority of light meter use lux. One lux being equal to 0.0929 foot-candles
We use electric resistance heat in the winter here in northern Idaho. Heat pump uses more electricity than space heaters because of low temps, So i like incodesent lights in winter helps warm up things in spots and heater still turns off at temp selcted and runs a little bit less. And us old timers remember how bright a 60 watt bulb compares to a 25 watt, so watts of light is easy for referance. really don't want to learns lumens, candle power , colors anymore. Warm and soft glow in winter is nice. Plus ive never had a led bulb last longer than a filiment bulb. dirty electricity is always blowing out led's and curly compacts. what a waist of money.
I don't like having to learn lumens, candle power& colors either, but it's what we need to know to go bulb shopping now. That said, we inherited 8 cases of Sylvania 60 and 100W standard incandescent bulbs, which are hard to find these days. We light and heat our sheds with them in winter and now have a lifetime supply.
“Heat pump uses more electricity than space heaters because of low temps.”
Please explain
@@QuinnTheVeganHeat pumps are really inefficient when the temperatures drop below freezing because there's just not that much residual heat in the air. My heat pump runs continuously in January and February... Frequently needing the auxiliary heating strips to reach temperature here in Ohio.
I don't know if I would say that space heaters are more efficient but, using only my heat pump, I can easily use 400 kilowatt hours per day in the deep dark bowels of winter.
We generally keep the thermostat low and use heating pads or heated blankets because you can use around four or five of those to one space heater.
The long-term solution on this may just be installing a second propane heater to be our primary heat source during those months.
@@sociopathmercenarythis is only true of certain heat pumps, like the big American made condenser / compressor units that work with air ducts and replace a central air conditioning unit.
It's true that these units don't work well in cold weather, and rely on electrical resistance strips as a backup heating element. These are really only suitable for mild weather.
But ductless mini-splits work differently. These don't have any resistance heating elements, and some models can function well below freezing, and are far more efficient than electric space heaters because you're pulling 'free' heat from the outside air.
There is no difference in central heat pumps or mini splits as far as heat recovery in winter works, they both try to extract what heat can be found in the cold air, and that relative heat is hard to find in lower temperatures. The primary reason Mini splits can be perceived as 'more efficient' has more to do with the SEER rating. Mini-splits are easier to install and upgrade so more efficient units (SEER 23-24) are always available. As far as heat recovery, there is no 'free heat', it takes energy to get it and the colder it is the less there is to extract. Once you get below 40 degrees the energy required to get that heat (Compressor run time) starts going up until it gets to the point where the compressor will need to run full time, usually Teens and below.
Wow
If you are heating your home and have thermostatic control of the temperature it is not true to say the heat generated but an incandescent is wasted. Like most electric heaters it is 100% efficient at heating your room and it also lights it. The heat that the light puts in just means that the thermostat will turn off earlier. Of course, if it is summer and you are using AC to remove heat from a room then it is a waste and a double waste. But in summer we use a lot less lighting unless you live underground.
Excellent! I'm looking forward to your discussion on color temperature. I know a bit about color temperature, with lower (2700K) being less harsh visually than 4000K or 5000K (where 'K' is Kelvin, not the 1000' multiplier, that would be 'k', lower case). But it's so backwards that "warm" white is a lower Kelvin rating than "cool" white. It's like we're used to "red hot" and "cool blue", like on water faucets. And, at 2:07, even the manufacturer is inconsistent, "3500K - 4K - 5 K". In the first one, 'K' means Kelvin, but for the 3 & 4 the K MUST be used as a thousands multiplier, because 3 & 4 Kelvin is pretty damn cold! (The cosmic microwave background (space) is only slightly colder, at 2.7K (K for Kelvin), only a few degrees above absolute zero!)
He did a video on color temps about two weeks ago.
Is the heat from led lights coming from the actual led or from transforming the 120v AC down to 3v (or whatever volt it is) DC? Would running led lights on a secondary DC infrastructure in a home be more efficient? Say 48v DC? (Which could pull straight from a backup batter if it’s part of your solar PV system)
It's a combination of both as far as I can tell. I do run a lot of lights in my house off a 12VDC circuit powered by a solar battery bank. Lots of lights out there designed to run off 12V like MR16s and LED strips, etc. I also run under cabinet lighting off 24VDC. You still get heat loss off of those but not as much as when powered off AC. Think of it as having a 2V wall wart (modern units have switch mode power supplies / SMPS) plugged into the wall powering the 12V light. You get heat off the wall wart and you get heat off the 12V light. Eliminate the wall wart and part of the heat loss goes away. That said, the LEDs themselves are usually mounted on an aluminum core PCB to help dissipate heat from the LED itself. As mentioned in this video, the LED is about 20% efficient at producing visible light, but that other 80% goes to heat.
The other thing to watch for is not going with the highest watt rating. Instead, I find the lower watt rating lights, or running a higher watt light at a somewhat lower voltage helps reduce operating temperatures and increases the lifetime of the bulb. Case in point with the MR16 track lighting I installed about 10 years ago. I used 5.5W Philips lamps (passive cooling) and another person I know went with the 7W Philips lamps, which at the time had a tiny fan built in for cooling. All my 5.5W lamps are still going strong and all the other person's 7W lamps burned out many years ago. If you search for "true low voltage track lighting" on my channel, I have a series of videos on that topic.
Transformers are only for AC
A lot of drivers used SMPS (switched mode power supply) which basically turns the power on and off really fast with a rectification circuit to only take peaks
That's where the good.majority of the heat is coming from.
Most high end LEDs will have a big aluminum heat sink connected to the MOSFETs. Some even have a fan.
In short the heat comes from making the LED run not from the LED itself running
@@alb8158 There's talk of a 48v dc standard in europe not to mention USB-C standard on all electronics (and not coincidentilty, USB-C PD 3.1 goes to 48v) I might implement a 48V DC architecture in my next build.
@@The4Crawler going to check the channel now
One further consideration is the heat load on a light fixture. Some fixtures are rated for up to 60 watt lamps. It has to do with the temperature rating of the fixture as to how long the fixture and the LED lamp will work together. Some LED lamps are not rated for base up use on account of the amount of cooling needed for the power driver. Could you cover the changes in luminaires that NEMA made to accommodate LED lamps and the thermal management of the different lamp types?
As an addition, this is an issue with CFL’s that are in enclosed light fixtures. CFL’s need some amount of air cooling, otherwise they will burn themselves up rather quickly.
Oh that's a good one.
Tried some equivalent led bulbs and they did not seem to light up area as well as regular bulbs..
I added a bunch of chiwanese LED lights to my plow truck. They were listed as so many “Watts”, so I siszed all of the wiring to handle that Wattage. They had listed them by watt equivalence for halogens. Everything was way oversized.
Amperage is the only thing you should size wire off of!
@@chriscordell6973 I did, but since the Wattage rating on the lights was greatly overstated stated, when I divided the Wattage by the Volts, to get Amps, the Amperage was higher than it is in actuality. So, everything sized on the false “Wattage” is oversized. Watts/Volts = Amps. Total Fake Wattage = 500. 500-Watts/10-Volts = 50-Amps. When everything was wired up the whole thing drew just under 30-Amps.
I like Candela cd/m^2, I've used this metric in my job for the last 8 years, but I'm not an electrician or selling lights
What are good licenses and certificates to get when starting your electrical career?
You can become a certified electrician without any special certificates - experience is key.
Not sure if this is your thing or not or if you would consider this, but, I watch a movie the other day called Escape Room: Tournament of Champions and there is a a scene on a subway car that does not seem like it would work. Can you watch it and do a video on how this would or would not actually work?
I would take this a step further. Instead of evaluating wattage or lumens, you should focus on evaluating foot-candles on the workplane. Two fixtures with equal lumen outputs could have completely different outcomes to this better metric.
Lumens are deceptive. Daylight or warm light are higher quality light might be less efficient. But contrast and definition are just as important as brightness. Cool white can be to hazy and creates eye strain. Full spectrum lighting gives better depth perception and make stuff look better.
Honestly I can’t imagine what the next light source would be.
EGO, cuz our "leaders" dont care about solutions unless its a lawsuit, that's what everyone sees the same, no matter what you look at or hear, etc etc etc!!!
L😂L
What about Lux ?
They can make led lights that produce 200 lumens per watt. Which means an 800 lumens bulb would only take 4 watts. But they don’t sell them in the USA yet.
They do sell 1600 lumen wifi bulbs from Wiz through. Normally it’s 14.5watts but if you dim the bulb to 800 lumens it only uses 5watts.
That is a close to 200 lumens per watt that I have found. It is a $16 bulb but I like the fact I can get the extra light when I need it. Plus the electronics barely get hot so it will probably last 50,000 hours.
Wiz has some good stuff.
Since OSHA uses foot-candles, that should be what you use. The overwhelming majority of light meter use lux so just remember one lux = 0.0929 foot-candles. The difference is the height of where the luminaire is installed. 10 lumens a foot away are more foot-candles than 100 lumens 200 feet away.
Inverse square law of light can apply for the distance to foot candles maybe?
@@PillarsOfHeavenYep. The light that lands on an object is decreased by the squared distance. If 10 lumens is perfect at 1 foot away, at 2 feet, you need 2x2, or 4x the light (40). At 10 feet, you need 10x10 (100@10 = 1000).
So, whatever the starting distance, call that "one" unit, and base the new distance off of that (1.5 is 50% farther, and 1.5 squared is 2.25x).
Laser is the next lightning generation
Hope u have enough time patience to read this.
Old commercial sign (1995)
Old T12 ballasts
Old HO bulbs 48,60,64 inch in length.
Is there a way to convert from this HO bulb to something else that easier to buy and uses less power while still using existing bulb sockets and ballasts
depending on the type of sockets in these fixtures you can use LED bulbs. Any fluorescent fixture can be converted to LED by removing the ballast and rewiring the sockets to non-shunted. style. The biggest problem you might have is these LED tubes only come up to 48 inches. I believe those would be around 16 watts instead of 40 watts. 24 inch units will be 8 watts each. Sometimes it's cheaper to replace the entire fixture, which are now available up to 8 ft long. I am involved in a lighting project at a local church where we have 2x4 ft (4 tubes each) fixtures in a suspended ceiling. Replacement fixtures are LED at 50 watts each (instead of 160 watts) and are brighter than the originals. They are adjustable so will probably turn them down to a 30 watt setting. The kickers is they will be subsidized by the power company so only $15 each with another $20 for installation. ($35 each total) For that price it's not worth it for me to climb a ladder. We have a little over 110 fixtures going in and the power company will finance it over a year. Total payback will be less than 2 years in electricity. BTW, for that commercial sign, if it's internally lit, they do sell strips of LED with self-stick on the back. It's similar to those old rope lights but without the plastic tube. They are fairly bright as well.
Wattage is strictly a measure of power, joules is a measure of energy or power (wattage) used over time. Watt-Hours and Joules are identical in meaning and are both valid in the engineering world.
Dustin, you didn't show how to compute for Lumens from the wattage in the video. I'm still confused how 10 watts gets 600 to 800 Lumens you have to compute using formulas. I'm also confused what is Luminous Efficacy and the differences of Luminous Efficacy between LED, CFLs, Incandescent bulbs. You should go over this stuff in a lesson
good day, we are cable manufcaturer in china, our solar dc cables are made of tinned copper with tuv certificate.
Watts÷volts=amps.
How do I figure out how many amps lumens draw?
Thks for your time
The difficulty is that the lumens you get per watt varies depending on the color of the light, some frequencies of light are just plain more visible to the human eye, and so a watt of electricity powering a lightbulb putting out a certain frequency will get more or less lumens than a watt powering a lightbulb which puts out a different frequency, for instance, the most effective frequency is kind of a yellowish-green color, and at that frequency you get approximately 683 lumens per watt, but at any other frequency you will get fewer lumens per watt, there are other complications and things to consider, but they all add up to the fact that there is no single answer available unless you really dive into the weeds and get into the very advanced math behind light and human eyes, which i dont understand well enough to explain.
Edit: I should point out that lumens are a measure of light adapted to how our eyes perceive light, so that's why some frequencies of light get more lumens per watt, it's just that we aren't as sensitive to certain colors as much as others.
In the last4-5 years the chemical company i work for has replaced all (1,000+) of the fixtures/bulbs (metal halide/mercury vapor/incandescent, etc.) and replaced them with very expensive LED explosion proof fixtures. Now we replace the whole 500$ fixture instead of a 50$ bulb. The refineries are lit up a little brighter with the LEDs and I'm sure the power bill is much cheaper, but they don't have the longevity that the sales reps give them. IMHO its a wash at best, and the money thats saved on the power bill is being spent replacing fixtures.
Most people have been hoodwinked by Sales guys. The regulation is 43 lumens per watt. HPS and MH are average of 75 . Sooooo 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
My experience with LED (in my house) has been mostly positive (who doesn't want to spend less $$$$ on electricity for a given amount of light, particularly in this economy 🤷🏼♀️) That being said I've had a handful fail early, sometimes lasting mere months as opposed to the 15 years based on 3 hr/day stated on package and the ones installed base up in my ceiling fixtures seemed to be the ones that failed more frequently than the others, so I suspect heat build up since LED's operate best in a cool environment. For these reasons I'm not a big fan of integrated LED fixtures, when the house I'm in the process of building for myself is complete sometime next year I'm choosing fixtures with edison sockets so I can replace a failed LED instead of the whole fixture, as well as the flexibility to swap out bulbs between fixtures as certain trends come and go.
1 Lumen is equal to 1 lux which is what most light meters measure. There is also another measurement called "foot candles". A foot candle is the amount of light that 1 candle placed on an object 1 foot away produces. A fooot candle is approx 10.76 lux
So an 800 Lumen or Lux LED fixture is the equivalent of 74.35 candles, 1 foot away (800/10.76)
Lol, lux is lumens per square meter
Sorry, 1 lumen is NOT 1 lux except in one specific situation. The conversion depends on the distance from the light source to the illuminated surface where you measure and on the emission beam angle of the light source. There are on-line converters that allow you to easily convert lumens into lux and vice-versa. I recommend using these calculators. Also there is another measurement called "candela per square meter", which relies on the amount of light falling on a surface 1 meter (roughly 39 inches away), which is the metric version of what the foot-candle measures. You can purchase light meters in either metric or traditional units. I have light meters that will measure light emission in candela per square meter and illuminance in lux, as well as foot-candles.
Thats all good information, the point I think is that when selecting lights you need to be aware of the application and what the standards require the space/task to be illuminated to. I am a building services engineer and am still early in my career so there are still alot of things I need to learn. I use a software that lets you use the photometric file that is provided by the light manufacturer to model the average lux in a building/rooms.
Ulimatly it is about selecting good quality manufactured LED lights that use quality conponents to ensure that they last as long as that they have been specified for.
Footcandles, specifically delivered footcandles are the metric professionals use to design a space whether indoor or outdoor. Lumens are the benchmark chip makers used during the LED evolution and lighting fixture and "bulb" (lamp) manufacturers followed suit.
the current method of LED packaging / labelling is so obsolete! They proclaim "60W equivalent" - Equivalent to what? Pretty soon most people wont even know or care what a incandescent light was. Just tell me the Lumens (and the color temperature, of course). most of the light Incandescent bulbs produce is in the invisible part of the spectrum, making them highly inefficient. LEDs still waste some energy as heat, but they are focused on mostly producing visible light only
They do this to help the average person that has no idea about watt vs lumen ease their way into the proper terminology and to educate them on how it should've been advertised in the first place.
Problem with lumens is everyone lies about it when grading there bulbs
watts are work lumens measure illumination
i care about efficiency when i get the bill
i dont buy bright lamps just because they are bright and i pay for wattage
Yes, its a dumb comparison in my view. No relation to each other at all apart from overall efficiency. You sure could rely on an efficiency rating.. I imagine the video ended that way but I didn't bother watching to find out.
The simple fact that the average person was raised out knowing how much light they got by wattage and luminance was never part of that ! They need to come out with a wattage to luminance conversion chart for people and to have them on display at any place selling lights or light bulbs !
I don't understand this. Its like Watts vs magnetic flux density. The candella is an SI base unit. Watts and Lumens are derived. It is just unrelated to the other apart from gaining efficiency figures.
But watts do matter when talking about the power bill... if theres a lot of lights in use at once, it can really matter to a client. So save the watts discussion for when it applies, but know that it does sometimes apply. Usually in commercial or very large homes to be occupied by large families. I've done 14 million dollar homes to be occupied by a retired couple, who won't have lights in every bedroom on at night, every night... only when grand kids visit 2 weekends a year... not every large home or business even needs to worry about watts, but it can be a legit concern for some clients.
I need to replace my Zinsco panel, I need to keep the metal housing, don't want to cut walls and reframe, this one is only 11" wide, any suggestions?
It's 16 circuit breakers inside.
Random junction box ad- larsenselectronics explosion proof junction box. seriously?
This wasn't anything new, but thanks
Electricity in general isn't anything new. What's your point?
@@mikejohnson3873 "The *New* Lighting Standard"
click bait... its all about LUX
It's definitely time for the package labels to lead with Lumens and maybe put the "incandescent equivalent watts" in smaller and smaller print until it is eventually forgotten. I think the smarter people are finally starting to at least remember the easiest reference point of "800 lumens == 60 incandescent watts" and working outward from there.
In my home we have electric resistance heat so in the winter time there is no "waste heat" -- every watthour that is wasted by a lamp or any other appliance is one less watthour that the heaters didn't have to consume. So essentially all non-heat loads are "free".