The Very WEIRD Limbo of Mario RPGs
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2021
- Mario + Rabbids has basically become a franchise now and Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope is looking to be a fantastic game and significantly bigger and better expansion on Kingdom Battle. And with that, I couldn't help but ponder the general state of Mario RPGs, between Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, and now Mario + Rabbids since they all make up RPG gameplay in some way shape or form. With what Sparks of Hope is doing and adding, and the current state of both Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario, I couldn't help but wonder where in god's name is this branch going to go...
-Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope Developer Interview:
• Mario + Rabbids Sparks...
-Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle selling over 7.5 million copies: mynintendonews.com/2021/06/13...
Music:
Peach's Castle - Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam
Forest Folly - Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
Blue Streamer Battle - Paper Mario: The Origami King
Beachside Dream - Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
Riverside Station - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Wasp Kingdom - Bug Fables
Thwomp Caverns - Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time - Hry
My Twitter: twitter.com/SuperMarioT_YT
My Discord server: discord.gg/GK7d8QZ
Are you gonna livestream Nintendo E3?
@@cpmc1164 I'm debating it, not gonna lie
@@SuperMarioT Rip Min-Min
@@SuperMarioT The only reason I bought Rabbids Go Home, was because I thought it's gonna be their last game, given the title they put up. But no, they keep showing up, and now they're invading my favorite franchise and that's not a good thing in my honest opinion! WE GOT LUIGI DABBING BECAUSE OF THEM FOR FUCK'S SAKE! I don't ever want to see another Mario+Rabbids crossover again!
Do you guys think Nintendo knows what to do with Mario in the rpg genre at this point?
Tfw the stories of the Mario RPGs are being kept alive by the Rabbids of all things.
With paper Mario's direction and alphadream being bankrupt this is the closest thing to a rpg
I know, these are strange times. Granted, these are also trying days, though they are strange too. So, I suppose we can't really predict the most unpredictable band of Minions we have ever seen.
@@StoryTeller796 When one door closes another opens. Mario RPG's are no different.
@@orangeslash1667 Truly.
it's strange...but if the games keep being this good...
this is the best thing that had happen for Mario RPG's
Honestly, Kingdom Battle selling more than any M&L or PM game proves that those games could sell if they had the grandiose marketing and Nintendo's confidence. TTYD, no joke, could have been as widely iconic as Mario Kart or Super Mario if it was pushed on the same level as those series, that's how good that game is. But Nintendo doesn't want the Mario RPGs to be huge hitters, they want them to be cute little side spinoffs that come and go quickly. Mario + Rabbids on the other hand, was a brand new thing and even then I feel the majority of the hype for it was generated by Ubisoft, not Nintendo. Ubisoft is their own big mainstream company, whereas Intelligent Systems isn't as big and even so seems to put more faith in their Fire Emblem games than Paper Mario, and AlphaDream, well we know the situation with them :'(.
they should've waited just a little longer to make these remakes..
Hit the nail on the head. I didn't know most of the Paper Mario games existed for a long time during my childhood besides TTYD and Super Paper Mario.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, there is borderline 0 chance TTYD would even remotely come close to the status of Mario Kart or Super Mario. Especially Mario Kart, that franchise is on a tier of its own in terms of mass appeal.
@@TheKorenji Maybe they were chucked out of Nintendo because they rebelled against Nintendo because they didn't like Alphadream's desire to make Mario into a story. I mean, it might be a bit of a stretch to make this kind of conspiracy considering it is Nintendo, they are probably the best gaming company right now though it wouldn't be too far since they did curb Intelligent System's individual control over Paper Mario. Who knows what happened behind closed doors. We're not in the room where it happens.
It's hard to not worry about the state of Mario RPGs when PM has been Action-Adventure for a decade, M&L have been MIA, and we get a "sequel" to a tactical RPG crossover with the Rabbids that will expand upon...well everything.
The way I feel is just like how Sonic fans felt after Forces: unsure of where the series is gonna go next
No, most Sonic fans were 100% sure of where the series was going after Forces: back into the trash!
(Slaps knee)
Not funny
But seriously, Forces didn’t make people unsure at all, it made them pessimistic (moreso than usual). It had everything a lot of fans hated: poor writing and characterization, a botched plot, shoehorning classic content where it didn’t belong, playing things too safe, and generally boring levels and gameplay on top of everything else. All things that had been going on for a while, (to the point people call 2010-now the “meta era”) which Forces basically said “yeah, this stuff is gonna continue. sux to be you.”.
So we didn’t feel unsure after Forces, we were more sure than ever. If anything made us feel unsure about the future, it was the film. (And I mean that in a good way).
@@carlclo2988 Sonic fan here. Can confirm
@@carlclo2988 yeah, Sonic Forces was a really low hit for basically everyone of us
Damn i really wanna see new Mario & Luigi game
I would like to see that, too.
But I don't mind Mario and Luigi not coming back if it's replaced by a brand new Mario RPG franchise.
@@almondjoy4938 Yeah but seeing Brothers doing stuff together is much better to see.
@@cemdanil2092
You can have that happen AND include more characters to boot!
@@almondjoy4938 I would rather they don’t, they will only end up losing money if they go off the scales like they’ve done a lot in the past
Me too
It's a bit strange that the spirit of Mario RPGs is carried by the Rabbids of all things. Many people despise the Rabbids for literally taking over the Rayman franchise and then killing it, being the equivalent of the Minions, being annoying, among many things and the only times they are not being hated is when they don't act as they always do. Yet, all these factors in mind and I feel Sparks of Hope can be an excellent game, I don't know how backstories can work for characters that were fused with the items they wore but it can be interesting.
The sad part is, they didn’t even kill Rayman’s franchise. Origins and Legends still showed up afterwards, with what, a 4 year gap between Rayman Rabbids? Rayman’s franchise was killed by the creator and Beyond Good and Evil 2. That game was next for the team after Legends, but since development was a disaster, who knows where either project is now.
@@aidanmonner2225 eh rayman is still somewhat relevant with rayman mini and adventure, just not as much, but still
@@ballownfist3497 Those too. The thing about Rayman is that the series should have continued. There was quite a bit of talk about a true Rayman 4 happening, but it seemed like it was the next project after Beyond Good and Evil 2. Seeing as that title went through development hell, and now lost its director thanks to abuse allegations, who knows what state Rayman is in? His creator was just fired after being exposed as toxic, so who could take up the reigns? If things had been different, maybe we wouldn’t see Rayman as dead.
@@aidanmonner2225 I dunno
Even Crash had a crash, and they came back. For me, I think it's just a matter of time. Rayman coming back is very likely, but not so soon I would believe.
Sparks of Hope shows everything I loved about the Mario spin offs of the late 90s - 2000s. Original characters, settings, tons of originality and weird locations we would never see in a mainline Mario.
I'd rather kill Paper Mario than subjecting it to more mediocre games with terrible gameplay, bland settings and obnoxiously bad paper jokes. I bet the next one will still manage to screw it up.
Mario & Luigi was way more consistent, Paper Jam might have been bland but it was fun to play at the end of the day. But we don't have anyone to blame except Alpha Dream for using their money on 3DS remakes when the system was already dead.
Superstar saga's remake was fine, it was mainly the fact bis' remake came out near the end of the 3ds lifespan and could already be played on the 3ds. Also it came out around the same time as stuff like nsmb deluxe. In general it was a bad idea to release re-releases or remakes when the 3ds was basically dead. Kirby extra epic yarn was another game that sold poorly because of it.
They went with remakes so they could reuse the game engine they made
for the 3DS, as a way to _quickly and cheaply_ make a new product.
They _already_ weren't doing so well around that time,
so that was an easier way to try and build up some cash.
They just didn't have the resources to go to a new system,
build a new engine for it and make a completely new game.
Trying to port most of the series to something else
would have needed quite a bit of reworking as well.
At least on the 3DS they still had the dual screen
to work with, so less would have to be changed there.
They also knew there was a massive audience on the 3DS,
so it should give them the best chance for sales, in that regard.
Those remakes were, unfortunately, a desperate attempt to save themselves.
They didn't really have any other choice and... well... you see what happened.
Yeah, Origami King was lit and all, but if I get to choose where to end Paper Mario's tale, I'd do it in Origami King and pretend Sticker Star and Color Splash never existed.
@@ericwijaya2119 Fair enough
@@ericwijaya2119 I think I would have just ended the Paper Mario series at Super. Origami King still suffers from the the same lack of character diversity that plagued Sticker Star and Color Splash. Toads and other various species can't be distinct by varying ages or genders, no Toadsworth, no Toadette, no Kammy, and no returning characters from any of the first three PM games besides the core cast. Origami King just doesn't feel like it belongs in the same universe as the first three games, because of this. Also, there's the fact the Olly's master plan to fold 1000 cranes to make a genocidal wish would defeat the purpose of how the Star Spirits ignore evil wishes too.
...my lungs are dying from Generic Toad spores
I’m still conflicted on what they meant by the whole “we’re not allowed to” bit when it comes to the original characters aspect.
Like you said in the video if Odyssey and even M+R can add and modify characters, why can’t Paper Mario? Unless they want to make that accessible or simple for kids, but that wouldn’t make sense because Odyssey and the other games are also quite accessible and ... idk I’m just confused with Intelligent Systems.
All the original characters of M+R are Rabbid characters, there's no original Mario characters except the Sparks
@@Quinhala11 There's a literal floating ghost entity in Sparks of Hope that resembles nothing like the Rabbids and they still took the Luma's design and altered it for the Rabbids, not the other way around like everyone else.
I don't remember if SMT describes it in one of his PM videos, I think so, if not him then one from Arlo. But by original characters, they mean the branding of the Mario universe. So like Goombella, she's not a regular goomba (though Odyssey now has a female one) so she's not allowed. Look at all the Mario Party or sports spin off games. They allow you to play various enemies, but it's always a default, plain enemy. Koopa. Shy Guy. Monty Mole. Pow Pow now. etc. It's not "Koopa, but he wears a shirt and has daddy issues". It's the sterile version. Take Origami King. New characters are all from different dimension, they're folded origami/papier-mâché instead of Paper Mario "paper" characters. And if they are, they're sterile versions except for something like a Bob-omb missing its fuse, or basic Toads with a plethora of costumes instead of Bobbery or the Chef, or even just Toadsworth. Toadsworth for whatever reason is not allowed to return. (sorry) Even in Odyssey, all the creative new characters, are creatures from other kingdoms than the Mushroom kingdom, except for a few variants. (Which still confuses me why enemies were redesigned to be plainer in SuperStar Saga since it wasn't in the Mushroom Kingdom to begin with).
So hypothetically, Super Paper Mario is OK because it uses dimension hopping as a means to then make new creative characters and enemies. But because it has the apocalypse storyline, with video game Hell as a location, it's a little too dark and in depth.
Tanabe making excuses and taking things out of context. With the "limits" they are still creative stuff to do with it
Odyssey is overrated, change my mind. Seriously Odyssey felt wrong. I loved Kingdom Battle though. 2000's Mario was the best. I miss Mario Super Sluggers.
It would’ve been cool if they actually started using the ML series’s official artwork as the art style of the series had continued. Like imagine remakes on the switch with that art style.
I get what you mean, the 2D art is so fun and expressive and it’d be cool to see animated. I think they should do the same if they decide to do a new 2D side scroller, but with the Kotabe art style they use for advertisements and stuff.
Tinfoil hat crazy theory: the rpg elements were toned down in this new Mario + Rabbids because Nintendo didnt like them or wanted the comparisons to Paper Mario. I have nothing to back this up, just throwing the idea into the discussion.
You're probably right, even in BotW there are RPG elements. (Fighting enemies gets you invisible Exp which causes stronger enemies to appear and items to start to get bonuses.)
...it is probably the worst element as it makes the game harder the more you fight ironically but it exists.
Kingdom Battles sold so well because that game is always on sale at like 75% off. I got my copy for 14 bucks with the Dk dlc. That is usually like a 100 bucks value. That kind of discount alongside good word of mouth helped a lot.
The one thing about the 7.5M sales number is that it's discounted and sold at like $10-$15 all the time, so those numbers are super super inflated. Not saying they're not great, but still.
Wait, they dropped the tactical RPG elements? That actually saps some of my enthusiasm...
Same. I don't really like how every rpg must become action based. Misses the point of rpg's imo.
You know what my two cents of this situation?
I feel that ever since Fire Emblem been selling well Intelligent System just felt they don't need to try with Paper Mario because their main flagship franchise has been gaining a lot of attention as of late so they assume Paper Mario isn't worth making it into a RPG series again.
Because they'd for Fire Emblem their own RPG series.. but idk
I think the sad irony of that is Fire Emblem Three Houses both added a lot to the series and still kept in line how most expect/want a Fire Emblem game to look, feel & play yet it's hard for Paper Mario to do the same for some reason.
Thanks alot FE first smash and now paper mario /j
@@SonicXtreme99akaCreeperMario RIP
paper mario’s modern formula isn’t really IS’s fault.
@@beeves_6925 Nintendo shares that blame too
Just give me a game that’s either as emotional as Super Paper Mario or as grand as the Thousand Year Door. They were both very memorable.
I need to say this: I'm getting Swap Force vibes from the trailer. With Cursa (the robed Rayman looking thing in the distance) looming above in space and with the gang you have drawing there weapons one by one and preparing to fight. It's awesome.
I looked up Swap Force to see that's a Skylanders game. & yeah, I can probably agree with this comparison.
Wow, I forgot Skylanders existed
Nintendo could either revive Mario & Luigi, or just make a new RPG series entirely. Or, just make Mario + Rabbids the new future for Mario RPGS.
Knowing Nintendo we wont have the rpg elements in the games for long if they continue the franchise
*Without rabbids
@NateNobody thats unnecessary look what happened with mega man it has way too many series and now the series is lost
capcom doesnt know what to do with it anymore so they just make game very similar to the the first ones
Hey, SMT. It's really cool that you decided to cover this topic about the state of Mario RPGs. I've thought a lot about what the future holds for this branch of Mario games. It's really unfortunate that with Paper Mario's shift in direction and the uncertain fate of Mario & Luigi, we've now been at this point for awhile where we don't have an active Mario RPG series.
I hope that Nintendo addresses this sooner or later. Don't get me wrong, Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope looks really fun and unique. But like you said, it isn't exactly a full-on RPG game. For someone like me who grew up with the Mario & Luigi series, I'd hate to see it be neglected and have it fade into obscurity. Hopefully that won't be the case in the near future.
I really enjoyed that video, take care!
The development team for Origami King had a lot freedom actually, the main thing they had to be careful of was the branding of characters. Other Mario Spinoffs like Luigi's Mansion can get away with by not basing their character off of preexisting Mario elements. The reason why they don't do more grandiose plots in Paper Mario is according to feedback they received, a vast majority didn't care or pay attention to them.
If rabbid luma can exist in sparks of hope then the modern paper Mario games should have no reason why they shouldn't make unique characters
@@crichie21 Rabid luma is a rabbid that looks like a luma. Ubisoft wouldn't have nearly the amount of hoops to go through to edit their own character.
And here I am... Just hoping and praying that Super Mario RPG gets rereleased on the Nintendo Switch. ;_; It's been years since the SNES Classic came out.
Anyways, yeah this is a VERY interesting situation... Makes ya wonder about the discrepancies for how Mario and the characters, story, etc. Are allowed to be handled on ONE RPG game as opposed to the other one. Honestly, Paper Mario for me has not been fun to talk about.
I see that Mario + Rabbids and the Sparks of Hope are doing things I WISH Paper Mario would do these days... Like gimme a compelling Paper Rosalina please... If we can't have unique Toad, Goomba, Koopa Troopa, etc. Designs anymore or any unique races anymore...
I never played the original Mario & Rabbids and it's not because of the Rabbids. Lol. I've... Never played an XCom style of game and I dunno if I'd enjoy it or even be overwhelmed at times. But outside of that, I think it has a LOT going for it.
I'm jealous not gonna lie, ladies and gentlemen. Mario & Luigi is currently limbo (really hoping I'm wrong), current Paper Mario just isn't for me anymore, and Super Mario RPG is obviously never getting more than Geno Mii costume in Smash Bros. Lol. Again.. I wanna be wrong about this.
Be hoping you are, tbh i'm very open to Nintendo giving Square the Mario brand for them to try making another Rpg.
So guess what happened?
@@islandko2402 *Insert Fight Against A Stronger Monster remade music*
WE DID IT...!
You know, it really sucks the rabbids are the focus of these games. People don’t wanna try the game cause of the rabbids and it really is a shame cause these games are so much fun.
I feel like tanabe's team and the defenders of the modern paper Mario games are assuming that the fans of the first three paper Mario games want every paper Mario game to be exactly same as ttyd but that's not the case, we just want a sequel to ttyd or spm similar to what the Mario and Luigi rpg's did and now this game is doing having similar combat with a different formula. Up until paper jam the Mario and Luigi games gave us different rpg elements (babies, bowser and the brothers, dreamy Luigi) with sparks of hope they're giving us new types of weapons, new types of movements (you can now use beep-o the glide around the battlefield) and can use bomb-ombs in battle. That's what the paper Mario fans are asking for
Intelligent Systems and Nintendo need to understand that the creativity, interesting stories, characters and gameplay of the earlier games is what made people buy them in first place. Origami king was a small step in the right direction but still suffers from many of the same problems that Sticker Star and Colour Splash had. As for Mario & Luigi, it seems the series is sadly dead for now since AlphaDream got bankruptafter poor business decisions but I’ll always pray for a new game. I hope one day both series return to their former glory but I’ll probably be a dead man by then.
I lowkey want another Mario and Luigi game...
I always wanted to make a mario & luigi partners in time reboot in fact im going to study animation & computer science just to get a chance of making my dream a reality I dont know if I will ever do it but I will try my hardest to achieve my goal
@Liam ArnoldI want to make this official so I will just try to find a job at a studio related to nintendo
@Liam Arnold its too soon to think about this stuff anyway so im not going to bother with it
I really want a mario and luigi partners in time. They could really improve the game if they did
People complain about the rabbids but what if it's actually a blessing in disguise. With the rabbids their, the games are made by Ubisoft and not Nintendo. So we can have a Mario RPG esque series without Nintendo influence to as great an extent. So what are essentially Mario fans can make what they want to make.
it could of been only blessing if they used rayman instead
Except you forgot one detail: The game is still a Mario game so they have to follow their rules.
@@dragondelsur5156 it does but it feels like Kingdom Battle handled it well
The grass level also had a massive block tower and a lagoon, the desert stage is also an ice stage along with having various junk scattered about, the ghost stage had an abandoned town and a swamp, and the lava stage had a ton of variety (war towers, a forge, caves of crystals, a factory, etc)
Rayman and Rabbids are connected to each other to a degree so the chance that Rayman being in the series is possible.
@@damonlam9145 I wouldn't hope much for that, the Rabbids became their own franchise after Rayman stopped appearing in their games and the rest is history.
The Paper Mario restrictions are weird. The only things you need for a "Mario Game" is "Red Man," "Red Man Jump," and "Funny Mushrooms."
Sprinkle in coins, Goombas, Koopas, and Bowser, and you can go crazy with anything else. Even apparently guns and swords.
Loving the videos you been putting out lately. Great stuff!
11:52 Ubisoft is company, Intelligent Systems is a studio. And the remakes were probably a rebellious last ditch effort by Alphadream to tell Nintendo that they can make the Mario and Luigi games with or without their help. They were probably wrong. And that last one was, again, probably a cheap excuse to justify their games new direction. And I mean, they could've come up with something better than just "Well, we have two RPGs, you wouldn't mind us throwing out one of them?" Yes, yes we would and still do. If it is meant to be an adventure platformer game, either add a creatively made progression system, or ditch the turn-based model altogether and do something different.
As not too big of a fan of Tactical RPG’s, I somehow loved Kingdom Battle. It was so zany and fun. And now that they’re trying to go for a good narrative structure and a Tactical Battle System where you can move around freely is really interesting to me. I’m really excited about this game, 2022 is lookin’ stacked.
My pipe dream hope is that Nintendo is killing off it's in house RPGS so that they can collab on larger scale Mario RPGS. Maybe the original Squaresoft Mario Series can make a triumphant return?
@Weston Meyer Aren’t they making like 20 on average? Like the 6 Dragon Quest announcements, Project Triangle Strategy, Octopath, Final Fantasy, like… (20 on avg is a hyperbole)
Oh, you meant the Squaresoft side, I thought u meant Square Enix in general
@Weston Meyer doesn't the Bravely, Octo, Triangle team go by [TOKYO RPG WORKS] now? Almost to definitely say "this ain't your daddy's square"?
@Weston Meyer Then what would Kingdom Hearts qualify as?
Man I 100% agree with you, the double standards Nintendo has over Mario rpgs these days is ridiculous. It rly doesn't make any sense.
Funny thing on Rabbid popularity... had they just started as their own thing, I might've been interested in some of what they were in... but instead, they started in a subpar minigame collection with Rayman, and then seemingly started to _erase_ the Limbless Legacy! Even after Origins brought him back, I was salty about that development. But Kingdom Battle? At first I mocked the idea, then was dumbfounded that it was a thing and had to see what they were doing... and finally... thinking Mario may have tamed the scourge, forcing them to serve as merely a much-desired additional spice to Mario's world?
That last opinion thankfully turned out to be entirely correct, so I'm quite excited for this new game!
I think nothing hurts me more than one of my all time favorite gaming lines (paper mario) only getting one new edition per gaming system and two of which I didn’t even bother to play. Still have only done 1,000 year door, paper Mario 64, and Origami king. Though I like Luigi’s mansion and other Mario games they usually don’t live up to me as much as paper Mario. I’m gonna try this one and see how I feel.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought Kingdom Battle had a lot of dna in common with older Paper Mario games. Which makes sense I guess, in a way Kingdom Battle is a distant relative of Super Mario RPG as a crossover Mario game.
I do still wish for a new Mario & Luigi RPG
My favourite Mario RPG up to this point is Bowser's Inside Story, and while I've never had the privilege of playing it, everything I've seen and heard about Thousand Year Door makes it so tantalising to me. Kingdom Battle, meanwhile, legitimately SHOCKED me with just how GOOD it was. I went back and replayed it last year, and it was even better than I remembered. Seriously.
Well it also had to do with alpha dream literally going bankrupt after the worst selling title in the Nintendo IP franchise since the virtual boy
To answer your question on the apparent hypocrisy regarding original content within Mario spinoffs, there were rumors that the Paper Mario IP specifically is heavily mandated regarding characters and concepts because of how far they strayed from the basic Mario concept with Super Paper Mario.
That’s also the explanation that makes the most sense to me, mostly due to the way Mario&Luigi: Paper Jam played out. Notice how that game is the only one in the entire Mario&Luigi series *including remakes* that had no original characters introduced in it? Why would AlphaDream randomly decide to drop all original characters and story elements, only to immediately get back to it with the remakes? Anything Paper Mario (and only Paper Mario) being heavily mandated is the only good explanation I can think of here.
i hope we get a new a mario and Luigi game in 2022
plus nintendo can just do it themselves
God, I just want another game like the thousand year door. I still replay the entire game every year to relive the perfect game
They don't even have to announce a new mario and luigi game. I just want to know if they're gonna scrap it for good or keep it. I mean just put out a statement saying what happened with alphadreams and their plans moving forward. They can just say we plan to continue the series in the future or we're not sure when there will be another mario and luigi and leave it at that and I'll be happy. I mean just throw us some kind of bone. At least address the elephant in the room since people have so many questions.
I couldn’t agree more, they should say more about the state of the series and stop being quiet for once...
@@wahmaker9505 ikr. I would be much happier knowing it won’t continue rather than always hoping it will but never knowing for sure.
It makes you wonder how long it will be until Nintendo slaps the shackles on.
Kingdom Battle succeeded because Nintendo for once was hands off. If they stay away and let the developers do its thing. This series will last for a long time.
I don’t think Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope will do nearly as well as the original at all unfortunately. I say this because firstly, Mario + Rabbids had this distinct advantage of being the first original Mario game for the very popular Nintendo Switch. Secondly, it was a much more original idea back in 2017 and the novelty has probably wore thin for many now. Thirdly, Sparks of Hope appears is coming near the end of the Switch’s lifespan, almost over 5 years after the Switch came out! Fourthly, the game was constantly receiving sales that were beyond generous when compared to every other Nintendo game for Switch. In fact, that’s how I was persuaded into getting it originally.
I’d kinda like to be proven wrong because these games are some of the most inspired and unique modern “Nintendo” games.
Very excited overall for this new Mario + Rabbids installment.
I think this will definitely be the TTYD of Paper Mario 64, where Kingdom Battle felt straightforward/kinda basic with it's story and movement gameplay and open world, Sparks of Hope is gonna go all out and deliver amazing new gameplay improvements and story elements compared to it's predecessor. Not sure if true or not from the footage but most battles seem to be optional like the previous Mario RPGs instead of forced area battles everywhere? Yes please! Even Cursea kinda reminds me of Shadow Queen (just a lot more C'thulu-ey)
I know Rabbids is not everyone's cup of tea compared to SMRPG, Paper Mario and the M&L franchises but like what choice do we really have?
- SMRPG continues to be re-released with 0 remake/sequel chances ever happening (God I'd love to be wrong) hell they made Geno a Mii Costume again. I just don't think SMRRG is ever getting any sort of revival as much as I'd love for there to be at this point given Pape and M&L's current state.
- Paper Mario being the super stubborn kid that refuses to listen and bring us what we've clamored for roughly 8-13 years. (I loved SPM but yeah we need an actual new return to form)
- And poor M&L that has been buried alongside SMRPG's grave at the Nintendo cemetery that I don't believe has any chance of resurrection? (Would love to be wrong on that one too)
I just don't see a bright future for any of the 3 series that I've loved a lot and grown up with and it still tears me apart but like honestly I see a brighter one with the Rabbids and it should seriously be considered the 4th great series of Mario RPGs (even though it's more strategy than action command but I still find it an RPG all the same!) And to play on words with the title of this newest game, it's literally given me Sparks of Hope for the future of Mario RPGs in general.
If there will be no more Mario & Luigi RPG games, at least I wish there was a spiritual successor with new characters (like Yooka-Laylee and Bug Fables).
I WANT ANOTHER MARIO AND LUIGI RPG!
Mario + Rabbids is like one of those bizarre things you'd see in a Rick & Morty parallel universe.
I will never be interested in Mario+Rabbids. Nothing can replace Mario & Luigi.
I think Sparks of Hope looks unironically good and all, but it depresses the life out of me that the Rabbids are basically carrying Mario RPGs 💀
We live in a sick and cruel timeline.
I personally find it kind of funny tbh (even though I’m still sad about M&L being dead)
@@galvsparks6295 Same!
Hey, we could be living in the universe where Mario actually died on March 31st
Played Kingdom Battle And I Loved It, Made Me Enjoy The Rabbids, So Im Hyped As Can Be For This Next Game
I think Paper Mario just needs a new director. Like genuinely I totally feel like if they had a strong director wanting a good, story driven, RPG Paper Mario they totally could do it. Tanabe just doesn't want that. I liked TOK a lot, but the game would do wonders to have more rpg gameplay, especially in combat
I hope the next Paper Mario would be an Origami King sequel(gameplay-wise),with some improvements(partners that join you all the way through and EXP). Origami King is one of my favorite games of all time,and if they make a sequel they can improve a lot and figure out a stable formula like Alphadream did with the Mario&Luigi series,but yeah they definetely need a new director. I liked CS and SS too but I would like to see more original characters again
Alright, so correct me if I'm wrong, but but we have:
The Mario & Luigi RPG (5 games)
The Paper Mario RPG (6 games, I'm including Super Mario RPG because Paper Mario was written as an unofficial sequel to it)
The Mario & Rabbids RPG (2 games)
And of these three series, one is in a death-defying limbo (M&L), one is still alive but nowhere near their roots [where most fans want them to be] (PM), and one looks promising... but is potentially not ironclad bound to the traditional RPG elements we love (M&R).
Did I miss anything? Send me your two cents. I'd like to discuss this further.
You missed a paper Mario game it has 6 not including Mario rpg which most people don’t count it with paper Mario because while it did start as a sequel it became its own thing
@@bagelgod946 Oh? Wait a minute... Paper 64... TTYD... Super... Colour Splash... Sticker... Origami... oh, yeah, you're right. Wait - does Paper Jam Bros count as a paper RPG or a M&L RPG?
@@popodumman6816it can be a bit confusing. it’s a m&l as it uses the m&l’s world (both in-terms of gameplay and story) and the m&l battle system. It’s also called Mario and Luigi paper jam not paper Mario paper jam.
@@bagelgod946 Hmm.... right, okay. Okay, there are 5 M&L games and, even though they follow the fan-formula (the battle system the fans most want), it's unsure if that series will continue. There are 7 PM games (I'm still counting Super Mario RPG because where else can I pigeonhole it?) and although they'll likely continue as a series, they no longer follow the fan-formula. And there are now 2 M&R games, which are likely to continue as a series, but don't seem to have a set formula that they hold every game too, thus also being unreliable to uphold the fan-formula.
What does this mean? Is the fan-formula doomed to slowly fizzle out with the remains of Alphadream? I demand answers! I'm looking at you, Nintendo!
Man do I still miss the Mario and Luigi series...
If they make the combat too light on RPG features (Sticker Star) or too gimmicky (Color Spash/Origami King), then it'll be another early grave for a Mario RPG franchise
Bowser Jr.s Journey in the Bowsers Inside Story also had unique new characters, who aren't even based on existing races from the Mario Series (On that note, the story of that sub game an the way Jr. and the Koopalings are characterized is amazing. It's a shame the remake sold so pporly, a lot of people missed out on this absolute gem.). I think that, for some reason, having new designs in RPG games is only forbidden in Paper Mario Games. The only Mario and Luigi to not feature Original Designs is the Paper Mario Crossover after all.
New Mario + Rabbids looks amazing btw. Can't wait.
14:06 I think the specific rule is that they are given a fair amount of freedom, but the thing that paper mario specifically used to do a lot (taking iconic things from mario like Toads and Koopas and turn them into a colorful cast of characters with distinct but familiar designs) is not allowed. New characters are only okay when they're visually distinct from the mario brand, so all the rabbid stuff is fine because it's rabbids, not mario. And if it is a recognizable mario character, they have to look exactly like they always do, can't deviate from the design at all except for possibly giving them a new outfit or something.
I'd say the best example to see this rule would be in the Bowser's inside story remake. Obviously they were obligated to keep it the same as the original where no such rule existed, but even then there's a change to the intro that reflects this. In the original you had this mother toad that was given a hair bun and inverted colors to make her stand out, but in the remake they changed it and instead she's literally just a generic toad with an apron and nothing else. When they say they aren't allowed to have original mario characters, I'm pretty sure stuff like that is what they mean.
Here we are days after Nintendo E3
This video has not become obsolete
Mario & Luigi has not been mentioned or even referenced.
Unless it's a game in development that was not said in E3, I think the franchise is knocking on death's door since it hasn't had anything since the Bowser inside story 2018 remake
Also the company making it, alpha dream, has been bankrupt for a good few years now.
Damn that's craaaaazy, anyway play Bug Fables.
Just give square enix Mario and Luigi RPG series they made the 1st one of legend of the seven stars so I feel like they can continue that with more Mario and Luigi RPG series adventures
Yea if they never were in a war against Nintendo.
Also, Yoko Shimomura, the composer of the Mario & Luigi series works to Square Enix.
The games would be completely different though
Square enix has been on a downward spiral recently...
@@mtj8870 What does that mean?
Seriously, what did Ubisoft do that made everyone so mad at them?
Habitual workplace sexual assault and harassment taking place in the company and higher ups doing nothing about it while also trying to cover it up
well. I think we should all have a opened mind ..and see how it goes.
Actually paper mario the origami king is the second Best selling paper mario game and I actually liked both mario and rabbids and paper mario on the switch but i kindof like origami king a bit more because of it s main characters
Speaking of rise, last I checked, it was at 6 million copies sold. That was a month after it's launch. It's about to be 3 months so idk how many its sold now.
As much as I hate the current direction of the last 3 Paper Mario games, it did kinda open my mind to a different side. How could you evolve Paper Mario and M&L outside of Story, Characters and World Building? I’m not saying it should become the final fantasy for Nintendo, but...TTYD formula is probably the best formula of a Mario RPG. Trying to alter that might have repercussions.
So a question: If the original style returns, how would you evolve it without it becoming stale? Outside of the three points, what about gameplay?
Tweak/add new mechanics, change the order of partners, draw inspiration from other Mario games after Sunshine, give Mario extra abilities & new badges, it wouldn't be that complicated or tricky to do, especially when Bug Fables completely took that formula and added new gameplay elements to it Paper Mario's never done before and when there are numerous sequels that do basically most of this, even just Mario sequels only.
@@SuperMarioT True and I guess after all that has happened so far with the Switch era, Nintendo might shake up Mario RPG again.
Actually, a very smart move would be to have the original trilogy remastered as a collection with extras. It could be used as a test to see if people still love the formula. That’s what I would do.
I wouldn't need a big change tbh. Most game franchises I enjoy are usually all the same in gameplay. Mario karts, smash, pokemon gen 1-7, dragonquest, dark souls, mario party 1-8. All same gameplay with little changes but still super enjoyable. So I never understood the people who liked to argue an say " if it stayed the same it would get boring" like umm their was only 2 games with that gameplay..😂. Say that atleast after it had same gameplay for maybe 6 games. Which it probably never will at this point with their little action/adventure thing they got goin on.
Usually you don't need to ask that question for a while if what's there is good. Pokemon didn't have that stale problem until around gen 6.
I'm gonna miss Rabbid Luigi's old shirt tho
I feel like Mario RPG fans are slowly becoming toxic.
That is all I'm going to say on the matter.
How so?
No offense, but they're have been toxic for a long time.
@@kirbytheartist3318 ...how so??
@@SuperMarioT This might be pretty subjective and I don't mean to sound like a downer but I honestly think Arlo said it best, Talking about Paper Mario games is simply not fun anymore. I don't know about you but for the last couple of years I seen arguments upon arguments between fans not unlike the Sonic Fandom and pretty much everyone wants different things (the old style to come back, a sequel to SPM, people who enjoy this new direction, etc). I know we shouldn't just things by a fandom, but the whole things has just become a whole echo chamber to the point that I just want to be done with it all.
@Regression Works I can't even say I like Origami King without at least someone threatening to lightsaber my face off.
Might just have to rely on fan projects for Mario storytelling, bro. SMBZ, among others. Hell, I started writing a dark Sonic fan story myself, utilizing the GOOD stories they used to tell. I've just been disappointed far too many times now.
I loved watching Rabbids Invasion and I love Super Mario games so I'm sure I'll fall in love with this game
Rabbids just work better when they have someone to play off with, we need someone to react to the Rabbids insane antics and someone to balance all the insanity of them, this is why they work well with Rayman and Mario
To be fair, Kingdom Battle goes on sale for dirt cheap all the time which is very likely why that number is so high
I would be more exited for the Game if the rabbids we're not Included, *Or at least replaced with more appealing original characters
While I loved the first Mario + Rabbids game and I even liked to some extent Paper Mario Origami King, I'd really like to see a new Paper Mario game closer to the old ones and/or a new Mario & Luigi game.
Ehh I still prefer Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario over rabbids
Still a hardcore Super Mario RPG fan. I'm so glad my brother let me play it during my high school years
4:05 me too, RabbidMario. Me too.
Mario and rabbids feels more like a strategy game than an RPG anyway
Technically RPGs require quite a bit of strategy in its gameplay but I get what you mean
@@stevenmcburney8167 i understand but this game is more turn based stratedgy with Rpg elements than a strategic RPG
I actually enjoyed how they integrated the Rabbits in this series and some of the slapstick bits were actually kinda funny
I am curious if this mario rabbids game will be like paper mario 64 to the thousand year door evolution. Hopefully this will make sense to people
Mario and Luigi series should be on switch
Hopefully we will get a mario and Luigi sequel at E3. It would be great to have the series on the switch too
It'll be hard to do that when the studio that made Mario & Luigi, Alphadream, is dead...
I wonder how that would work
I've never followed Mario + Rabbids because I have a bias against the Rabbids, but since it did sell that well and has RPG gameplay that's well executed, I may have to try it at some point.
However, I still think I'd prefer the other series coming back more than anything. They're some of my favorite Mario games and it's sad to see them disappear like this. Even if we don't get another M&L game, I would at the very least like to know what Nintendo's stance on the matter is. It's more important for us to know the next step rather than leaving everyone hanging. I've pretty much given up hope for Paper Mario, but as long as M&L returning is still possible as of now, I'll still be waiting.
Honestly, I don't think it's going to happen. The Mario RPGs are pretty much dead. Just like Wario Land... that's another series in limbo right there. Haven't had a game since 2008, and, purely in terms of quality, we haven't had anything as great as the original Wario Land pentalogy since 2001.
Is lava queen from the last game also gonna be in the game?
I dont understand how someone can consider mario + rabbids an RPG but not origami king. I think they're both RPG's but origsmi king has way more RPG elements than kingdom battle did
Man I just wanna see Mario and Luigi see their baby selves again
guess we aren’t getting a mario and luigi collection anytime soon well mario+rabbids is an amazing game
Can I say something? I view Mario + Rabbids NOT as a replacement for Paper Mario and M&L, but as an addition.
I'm fairly sure most people agree with that, or at least want that to be the case.
I dont think that the mario + rabbits series can go on for more than at most 4 games because the gimmick of the rabbits isnt something that can be expanded upon a lot like Mario & Luigi and also the rabbits arnt nearly as iconic as the bros so I cant see this series continuing for too long but maybe the developers will prove their worth to nintendo and get to work on a Mario & Luigi game, I doubt thought but a lad can dream
I mean Toads, Koopas, Goomas... those can't really be expanded on. Heck Bowser has barely changed much if at all. Call of Duty proves you barely need any change as long as the core gameplay loop appeals to who you're selling to.
if Nintendo ever brought the mario & luigi series back they should let square-enix make the games, that way we could possibly see all the characters from the 1st mario rpg return especially geno
Also, Yoko Shimomura, the composer of the Mario & Luigi series works to Square Enix.
@@pokechao0308 no she doesn't, she's a freelance composer, she'll work with anyone who hires her which is the explanation of why she's been involved with smash and other Nintendo games, if was an employee of square-enix she would not have been able to make music for the Nintendo games she made music for
Paper Mario: At least I still got games.
Yeah. Too bad your last three were mediocre.
And with lack of unquie characters too
16:26 That's very unlikely, to say the least.
Look at a staff list from Alpha Dream and compare it to the Credits of Super Mario RPG.
They literally had to leave Square to work on a Mario RPG, so I've sizeable doubts that SquareEnix would have any interest in making a Mario & Luigi Game (or any Mario RPG) as the people originally campaigning for it inside the company had to quit working at Square and set up their own company to make it happen...
I wish Nintendo would make another Mario and Luigi game for the switch in place of alpha dream. Idk why, but I was kinda holding out hope for a new Mario and Luigi to be announced during e3
I feel like paper Mario will sell millions of they return to their roots and make a follow up to the first 2 games, a proper follow up, not only the mechanics, like, actually give a damn and make a great story, great and diverse new characters, races, and world building.
Honestly one of the reasons kingdom battle sold so well s cause the deluxe wersion can usually be found on sale for about 20-15 bucks.
I’m confused at the new Nintendo direct Nintendo made trailers for basically all the franchises people still cared about
But yet no new Mario and Luigi game
They have FULL ownership of all characters and story that was created by alpha dream now too. Nintendo very much has the ability to continue the series. But will they?
no
I never played Kingdom battle but isn't it more turn based strategy than RPG?
Didn’t Nintendo buy the rights to M&L? I hope they don’t pull a Paper Mario with it… or worse, don’t release any new games at all
Given that mario & luigi is probably gone I am guessing there going to pivot the paper mario series into an rpg rather than an adventure game rather than be stuck in an inbetween state.
Nintendo has full rights now they could bring it back
I love how people hated the rabbids and now they love them because of this game but this franchise is good and it was really fun. i hope sparks of hope is fun