And the Frustrating Paper Mario Interviews Continue...
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2020
- The interviews for Paper Mario's modern direction don't stop. One "new" interview from a month ago touching The Origami King is making rounds on Twitter and it answers and touches some topics & questions from my previous video, Why Paper Mario Refuses to Change ( • Why Paper Mario Refuse... ). So as if it were an original part of that video, this new interview is getting it's own discussion & video after the fact. But it doesn't help or alleviate any tension the series and it's fandom's going through...
Sources:
- Eurogamer Interview of why Paper Mario doesn't have RPG roots w/ Tanabe & Nagaya - www.eurogamer.de/articles/das...
- Miyamoto's Involvement in Super Mario Odyssey - www.siliconera.com/super-mari...
- Miyamoto on Mario becomign the next Mickey Mouse & being less restrictive - asia.nikkei.com/Business/Medi...
Follow my Twitter: / supermariot_yt
Join my Discord: / discord
Music:
The Tile Pool - Super Paper Mario
Blue Streamer Battle - Paper Mario: The Origami King
Riverside Station - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Boggly Woods - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Battle at Bowser's Castle - Paper Mario: The Origami King
Sunglow Ridge - Paper Mario: Color Splash
Pennington's Mystery - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Flipside - Super Paper Mario - Hry
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You like Castlevania, don't you?
@@Legoluigi26 I'm interested in Castlevania at least
When I played TOK it did nothing but piss me off with everything wrong about this game and I seriously want Tanabe to be fired and replaced by someone else become he is a failure as a producer and already killed the franchise.
“If we keep using the same game system the fans want, we wouldn’t be able to surprise them or offer new gaming experiences.”
This guy is talking about M A R I O. Mario has been doing the same thing for 35 goddamn years, and continuously has surprised us and delivered new gaming experiences. This is the 9th highest grossing media franchise of all time!!! How can a developer think that what the fans want won’t be innovative or successful? That’s like saying people won’t buy new ice cream flavors because it’s still just milk and ice!!
9th media franchise? What're the other 10 that isn't Pokemon being #1?
SuperMarioT Hello Kitty, Star Wars, Mickey Mouse, Harry Potter and the Marvel Cinematic Universe are all in the top 10.
Tanabe is the king of justification for his own stupidity
If only there was a way to surprise people with "innovative and unique" things while still retaining the base formula of the IP and not tampering with that too much. I can't seem to think of any games that've done this before... oh wait...
Odyssey did this with the Capture gimmick to complement the returning platforming techniques from 64 to Galaxy with a few new moves thrown in.
*fun fact:* Miyamoto initially wanted Nintendo Land's "frozen dairy treats" to be made from birdseed and gum
Here’s the thing with Intelligent Systems: Three Houses is much more experimental than previous installments of the series. I think it’s just Tanabe’s outdated mindset that is holding Paper Mario back.
Exactly. It also seemed to take criticism from what most fans had about Fates and made 3 Houses better and most people consider it the better of the two whereas here, he’s ignoring the fans of what they want. I can say 3 Houses wouldn’t have sold as well if they didn’t listen and just had it basically as Fates 2.
The main thing is they kept the core gameplay the same- turn based combat with random stat boost upon levelling and did something unique with almost everything outside of the core. Paper Mario tends to tear down and rebuild from the start.
I personally really like games with card-based mechanics. Color Splash just did it poorly enough to make me hate it more than I would have if they didn't even try.
Since they had a "new mechanic" in Color Splash, they didn't even bother to try and improve anything about Sticker Star's take on turn-based combat, despite Color Splash being a functional sequel except for that one "new mechanic".
The most infuriating thing? That "new mechanic" was literally the one thing they carried over between CS and OK. I would have preferred them trying to copy and iterate on literally any other design aspect CS offered, but instead they opt to recycle the *one* design aspect that had zero potential for any sort of growth or added novelty whatsoever.
The handwringing over "not wanting to come off stale or repetitive" only continues to rub salt into that wound.
Tanabe sounds like a loyal Miyamoto guard dog. And what's this about doing the same thing over again offering no surprises? That's a total LIE!!! You mean to tell me, there is absolutely NO way you could ever surprise us fans by making a game with the same design structure as the first two games? That's insane. He has been developing 3 games that are VERY similar to each other for 8 years! How on earth is constant Paper puns, fighting with inanimate objects, having a single party companion that does nothing but talk, a tool with you to effect the world in some papery way, and seeing Toads with no real differences between each other NOT THE SAME THING?!!?
With the old games you had the option to create new worlds and races in the Mario Universe. You had the freedom to be flexible with the world and its characters in SO MANY WAYS. You had the opportunity to even bring in new RPG mechanics to spice up the combat. But no. Apparently they only felt held back simply BECAUSE it was an RPG at all?! My God I cant believe my ears. That makes no sense. In fact it makes Anti-sense, all of it. Tanabe is literally trying to explain to us, that limiting the creativity and depth of the Paper Mario world is what makes a game MORE surprising, unique and fun for people! Come again Tanabe what was that again?!
The ironic thing is that making a classic-styled RPG for the next entry would be infinitely more surprising than any new gimmick they came up with
@@unnamed7485 Yeah It actually would. No joke
@@unnamed7485 maybe if we begged them for another tok they'll give us a new ttyd lmao
Glad people aren’t scared to have negative opinions on the new games, it seems like everyone hates it if you prefer the older playstyle.
@@VampLovr54 As far as I'm concerned Positivity is the most overrated thing on social media. Back in the day people complained about stuff all the time with things they cared about. It was considered normal back then and treated as such, not today with all these "toxic" labels today. Negativity, in any form, even if you have a good point, is so hated and despised by the mob today they will shame and dismiss it as if it's the black plague out of fear it will infect them. Now people just put on a face to keep positivity up. Nobody makes their honest feelings heard about anything. You see this with Paper Mario fans who like the new games. It's this "you're just entitled" mindset and its ironically the most toxic behavior we see sweeping the fanbase.
I want this to be as crystal clear as possible to the fans of the newer games. You CAN like them and we NEVER intend to attack you or Tanabe directly as people. We also don't hate Tanabe's philosophy JUST because it brought the series in a bad direction. We hate it because it outright makes no sense. His entire idea of the series surrounds info that is outdated, shady, or completely hypocritical. Whether or not you like the new games, it should NEVER be the designers intent to ignore the criticism that comes from most of the fanbase and just think that it's fine to envision the series completely in their own head. Even the character modification excuse isn't valid. Paper Jam showed me that even with limitations, a fun game can still be made while staying true to the formula. As bad as Sonic also struggles with this problem, at least I can say that each formula had at least a couple games that I found to be great. I genuinely don't think I'll ever really enjoy a new Paper Mario again if it keeps doing this. My interest in Mario in general is at an all time low now. Frankly, the only good thing I've taken from this change is the fact that I found this channel.
Tanabe and his team are probably some of the most close minded, egotistical video game developers I've ever seen. They just don't seem to understand the fans at all. Its really unfortunate things have gotten to this
I’m not even mad anymore. I’ve given up hope for a return to form long ago.
Lets get Beenox in here and remove intelligent systems from this cause beenox listens to fans 100% of the way and made crash team racing nitro fueled and crash 4 a big sucsess
StarShine 9 I think it’s just Tanabe being the detriment honestly. I’m going to take a guess & say that Tanabe has a huge influence over the whole team. The team knows what we want, they just have to give the closest thing they have because of Tanabe.
Every second of his existence makes my life hell.
@@gintokisakata514 While Paper Mario may never have a return to form, at least the spirit is still alive in the form of spiritual successors such as Bug Fables.
It scares me how Tanabe seems avoid as much as possible to say the words "the thousand year door".
He doesn’t want new fans to discover that game.
@@user-gk4jp6lt2b and i don't want him to exist.
@@ericwijaya2119 °_°
Thousands of Doors
Tanabe keeps saying the words "new" and "unique", but the 3 last Paper Mario are kinda similar..
I mean they have differences sure, but so did the first two games.
It's just excuses as this point.
It feels like he just doesn't like the old style, and wants to make whatever he wants and doesn't care what anyone else says.
And the new Paper Mario games aren't as new and unique as the OG Paper Mario series either. If anything, it's step backwards.
There is a reason TOK is my least favorite. It's just a reskinned SS/CS with somehow even worse combat despite fixing one of the flaws of SS, it added so many more. The combat is now drastically easier, has less strategic options, and has less creativity in the attack options/animations. It's just SS 3 with decent level design and upscaled graphics.
Comments keep saying the sentences "Paper Mario should be (words)" and "Tanabe should be (words)".
@@Cerebrum123 Exactly why I didn't trust Origami King at all. The only 3 Paper Mario games I'll ever touch are the First 3 and that's it. because those are the only good ones.
I feel like he just took the phrase "never give up!" too seriously.
At this point, Kensuke Tanabe is outright trolling the Paper Mario community; he doesn't care what the fans want. In fact, he's pretty much the reason the series has degraded as much as it has, not Miyamoto.
@@HatInLime tldr a point Super-T already made in "Why PM refuses to change;" They put out three nearly identical games across 8 years and are just now jury-rigging a formula that could at best be considered barely passable. That *is NOT,* by any means, a point of _optimism._
Well he did put one of the big criticisms in the game as the main motivation for the villain in the game.
Cerebrum And it sucks.
@@bunsmasterbunny Yes, yes it does. If he's willing to troll us by making us into the villain, then he is willing to do so in an interview.
Nunya Bizness origami king is leagues better then cs and sticker star and it did things that ss and cs would not do like killing bobby the bomb who felt like a real partner so dont compare those games
Sigh... it's like talking to a brick wall now. Simply saying that Kawade PM and M&L are both RPGs so therefore one needs to die not only contradicts the identities of many of Nintendo's IPs but is consciously trying to divide to player base by pitting the old fans against the new players. Nintendo has never remastered the classic PM games, so as more time passes there are more people who only have experience with the new games and are fighting the classic fans because they are blissfully unaware of why the classic PM games are beloved by those that have the ability to play them.
They attack us because they think we are just nostalgic whiners, not because we can analyze the past with the present and compare the appeal of the two. If current gen gamers had modern access to the classics with a remaster the vast majority would understand the plight of the old fans and at least empathize with us or even join us. Either way, the fanbase as a whole would finally be able compromise on common ground, so to prevent any unified backlash Nintendo is likely refusing to redistribute the old games to protect the new philosophy.
Those who scoff at a conspiracy need to first ask why not a single PM game of any generation has ever been truly remastered and updated despite other games half their age often receiving this treatment (PM64 on Wii and Wii U VC doesn't count as games on general classic compilation platforms by default don't garner nearly the amount of attention as dedicated software releases and don't reflect on the individual performance of one game specifically), as well as if they as consumers would be personally interested in buying and playing a remastered classic PM game if one were ever released. New gen players would not turn their nose away if that opportunity happened simply because they are different from the recent games (unless they're hypocrites that just want to pick an ignorant fight) and Nintendo would have tangible evidence of how the modern gaming landscape reacts and responds to the old style. That Nintendo doesn't seem even vaguely curious about such an experiment, or the money that it is certain to generate, shows this is not a business or creative decision: it's a executive decision fueled by nothing but arrogant pride.
Arrogant old fuckers who can't look outside
well technically that’s exactly what happened with the seories called atelier there was a release that had introduced Thousands of people including me into the atelier seories the game was called atelier ryza 2 but then the next game in the seories completely changed everything about the privious entry in the seories becoming an rpg instead of a jrpg like atelier ryza 2 and it turned out that the rpg style came first and they were returning to that style but let me just say that i was Absolutely Livid and had No interest in that older rpg style simply because it was a fundamentally different game compared to the privious entry in the atelier seories hell i started sh..ting on the older atelier games simply because they weren’t like ryza 2 and i even tried the new atelier game which was called sophe 2 game and Hated it and that’s exactly what would happen to the paper mario seories if they ever re released the older rpg style the newer fans would just be pissed that it’s not like the action adventure style even if those rpg games technically came first it wouldn’t matter because it’s not why the newer fans got into the seories in the first place just like what happened with me and the atelier seories it doesn’t matter if the rpg genre came first i’ll always see atelier as a jrpg no matter what Anyone says and paper mario would be No Different and i’m saying this as a classic paper mario fan that’s just how these things work
IT. NEVER. STOPS.
Great content as always. Honestly, I still don't know why this channel doesn't have 100k subs already.
There's people out there who don't like him because of how irritated he occasionally sounds.
I mean God forbid you show ANY type of distress talking about the series nowadays, or you're nostalgia-blind, can't accept change, the works.
I love how these interviews have basically turned into interrogations. It’s really letting us see the true colours of the development team. I barely knew Tanabe before this, but he hasn’t earned any support points from me regardless.
Luckily he probably doesn’t even know you exist and doesn’t give a shit about ur opinion
@@naturalnova69 stfu Nova😂
Paper Mario really is just the new Sonic isn't it?
Might as well be.
Sadly, yes
Joao Castro but there is a difference is that sonic has over paper Mario and I want you to find out smt
Shit Sonic is still the new Sonic, unfortunately! Lmao
SweaterSwagg well each decade will be change since the staff cares for the fans
I feel there's two conflicting things here: not being able to modify old characters, but then not having new characters stray too far from the Mario world. I wonder if he's implying Super Paper Mario's designs, but just like the Luigi's Mansion ghosts, they are unique characters and aren't modifications of new things. Even then what does "Mario universe" character means? Technically Clefts and Doogans are now part of the Mario universe, if they like it or not, aren't modifications of old characters, so why aren't they there again?
Thank you I raised this point last video, but all I got was being attacked instead.
@@mechashadow "how DARE you not praise the new games?! And don't even mention those old games you insolent mut!! Praise the 60 dollar game from the multi billion dollar company"
There's also nothing in that with using old partner characters in some fashion. Imagine if, instead of *some random bob-omb that doesn't have a name despite every other bob-omb in Paper Mario having a name* you got Admiral Bobbery as your companion in the game. Drop the lost wick thing, drop all that, you could even have him explain why he doesn't blow himself up with his attacks anymore as being because he's old, he doesn't have the strength he once does, and doing so again would surely mean meeting Scarlett once more. And then Bobbery pulls Bobby's sacrifice.
PEOPLE WOULD GO NUTS.
well unfortunately those original characters from the first 3 games technically “aren’t allowed” to come back as they supposedly added in a rule after super paper mario that original characters from the first 3 games can’t come back in the newer games so unfortunately for some dumb reason those original characters and partners can’t come back in the newer games because of this dumb rule that came in after super paper mario
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare but still, the Mario universe is very rich in character species, all they needed was going a little below the surface really, but they barely scratched it at all, instead of having Piantas at the beach, let’s have Toads in their normal outfits dancing as if they’re wearing hula skirts, on what’s supposed to be an island far away from the Mushroom Kingdom…
Origami King did very good by letting Bowser’s minions be more than just enemies, that’s a start, it was so absurd how they were so obsessed with Toads as only friendly NPCs, that even Yoshis were enemies in Color Splash
This is really frustrating and sad; I've recently became a PM fan last year when I played TTYD. I grew up with M&L, but I could tell right away that the games were almost NOTHING alike; the combat, the partners, humor, etc were very different and I was shocked that I never knew another Mario RPG existed. I just want to experience a brand new modern PM game along with the fanbase... :/
and the thing was when they said mario and luigi was to be the only mario rpg the series was starting to decline.
I just gotta get this off my chest, because I'm genuinely starting to think Tanabe already is or is in the process of becoming a huge detriment to IS.
As someone who's working towards being a game designer, I'd be lying if I said I don't have dagger eyes pointed at Tanabe, because he is probably the most incredulous, obstinate, and all around close-minded developer I've ever come across.
If you're going to be a game developer in any capacity, you cannot, under ANY circumstances, ignore what at LEAST half of your fans are saying about your games. You can still hold on to your philosphies, sure, but it is your responsibility to fix what's making people unhappy, either by adjusting it or doing anything to no longer make it "broken," *especially when you're the one who "broke" it to begin with.*
Yes, I have to agree. Tanabe is raising some serious red flags here. I am gonna be finishing College for game development this year, and if I were to ever work under someone like him, I would feel very uncomfortable and worried, both for the fans, and my job.
@Muse Suse Tanabe helped direct and design Mario 2, and he was only the writer for Link to the Past. He never was the producer. That role goes to Miyamoto for both projects. Producers are the ones in charge of the project, and are often considered the "managers". What they say, goes. Directors may have the ideas for the project, but they are not in charge. They themselves are under the supervision of the producer.
Tanabe is the producer of Origami King, so he has control over the game.
Speaking as someone whose dream is to one day be a game designer, the lack of original characters and the unwillingness to listen to the fans (THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR POPULARITY) is utterly insane, to put it lightly.
Edit: I enjoy Origami king just fine, and the creative team is clearly trying their hardest under the restrictions. The fact that the restrictions are THERE is what's making me rage.
I mean Origami King was pretty good ngl
The game has certainly got the fanbase split. Some love it, some hate it, most are somewhere in the middle. I myself liked it, but it had a fair share of lows, so it's around a 7.5/10 for me. Regardless of how much we like the game, its mostly Tanabe's philosophy on game design that we really don't like, and how he is being very close minded. That is the main point of discussion here.
Innovating and using the classic Paper Mario formula aren't mutually exclusive. Bro Odyssey innovates and surprises the player, all while being based on the great formula established in 64 and refined throughout the years. I hope Paper Mario is placed in the care of a new development team.
Edit: I made this comment a little before halfway through the video RIGHT before you yourself mentioned Odyssey lol! Okay, well I'm glad I'm not the only one who understands. And if not a true return to form here's hoping for at least ports of the classic titles.
Well, Fire Emblem Cipher is going to be discontinued and Ryota Kawade used to work on that card game. After Fire Emblem Cipher is done for, Ryota Kawade really needs to come back to Paper Mario and fix all the mistakes that Tanabe has placed on the franchise. Tanabe tought on that players didn't like the story in Super Paper Mario and he began to base all of his ideologies on Shigeru Miyamoto, mainly in the part of its fine without a story, so why do we one. Its time for Ryota Kawade to fix the mistakes of Tanabe and make Paper Mario good again.
@@juanbautistagonzalezrodrig9715 Bruh between being a big Sonic and Paper Mario fan I'm down bad as hell right now lmao. Man I hope things change for the better.
The thing is, is that the newer Paper Mario games don’t use the original formula, they threw it out of the window with Sticker Star, in place is a constantly changing system which literally no one asked for, the only game in this entire series to innovate on the original formula is TTYD, and I know I’m beating a dead horse with that statement but everyone doesn’t hold TTYD as the golden standard for no reason, sure TTYD has got its fair share of problems, problems that have never been addressed since the series has been struggling to find its footing on what it wants to be for nearly a decade now, that’s the problem, if they just stuck to something everyone one was okay with instead of changing a system and making it either worse or extremely controversial then everyone would be okay with some changes here and there, it’s that every new game in this series is completely unrecognisable from its predecessors, hence why many people like to split the series into two, sorry, I really had to get that off of my chest
@@SweaterSwagg i agree with you i hope they change for the better too at least with sonic they did as they satisfied both 2d and 3d sonic fans unfortunately paper mario is a different story 😔
It is soooooo frustrating being a paper Mario fan these days.....
Not for me!I like all games in the series!(Besides Super.)
@@almondjoy4938
Cool
Yeah... Super was my favorite because of the deepest plot and tbe most unique gameplay (that worked). It's a shame I won't be able to experience anything like the first 3 games again
Its like being a Waluigi or Daisy fan.
Its 2020. Everything is frustrating. Soooo i relate to your pain.
This whole IP team thing reeks of BS! They let other modern Mario games get away with modifying established character designs, but won’t with Paper Mario?! Give me an effing break! This so-called "brand consistency" has only done the opposite for the Paper Mario series. Instead, the newer games are INCONSISTENT with what’s been established about the first three! Why do all Toads have to appear the same age and gender when didn’t in older games?! What ever happened to all those other unique characters we had from the first two games?! What about enemies like Clubbas, Crazee Dazees, Duplighosts, and Koopatrols?! Seems pretty hypocritical if you ask me! 😡
It's most likely because Mario platformer games are developed in-house, while Paper Mario is developed by Intelligent Systems, which is a second party. Nintendo themselves own the copyright to Goomba, but not to for example Goomba with horns, so if Intelligent Systems were to put the original character of Goomba with horns in their game, the copyright would be in Intelligent Systems' hands, and Nintendo wouldn't like those complications to come from a minor side game, so probably nowadays Nintendo doesn't want to risk it and don't allow Intelligent Systems to make original characters like that.
Super paper Mario had many unique characters as well.
Hat people should strive to change times for the BETTER, not for the worst.
Lord Natu screw them! This IP team should learn to take a ####ing hint from the MANY fans complaining about these idiotic policies and lighten up!
Hat from what I’ve seen of a playthrough and many reviews of Origami King, yes I do think it has merit. But this asinine restriction on character design variety is just not good for the series to continue. The more this trend continues in Paper Mario sequels, the more it’s going to get stale, and the more it will frustrate longtime fans who know that these games could be SO MUCH better without these unfair restrictions.
I feel like Tanabe killed all the original staff of the first games and will stop it nothing until Miyamoto says he’s proud of him and legally adopts him.
Edit: SMT where is my heart man? I don’t put this on for nothing
Miyamoto doesn't even like Sticker Star.
@@GeoshiTheRed People thinking that Miyamoto wanted some sort of reinvention when It came to the battle system.
@@felipe_drawmania1604 Miyamoto wanted it to be a spiced off from TTYD, not get rid of it entirely.
He's literally simping on Miyamoto.
@@GeoshiTheRed That is probably why Tanabe is so obsessed with making it again and again until he can make a SS like game that Miyamoto likes.
Hearing that the current art style is what they were always aiming for is really upsetting to me, because I vastly prefer the original art style (simplistic with a hint of a paper theme, but not to the point where EVERYTHING is some kind of papercraft element) over the modern one
Skirdus It wasn’t what they were always going for. Yoshi’s Story in N64 has the cardboard environments and much more papery sprites. They always had the ability to make the games look like this, they chose not to because that’s not what they wanted them to look like.
Tanabe is just lying.
Like, he’s literally objectively wrong by saying the tech was unable to do it since Yoshi’s Story did it. They clearly never wanted it to look like papercraft. He’s just lying to try and diffuse criticism.
You know what I also miss? When jokes were cleverly written and actual jokes! Not some stupid variation of "LOL! PAPER!"!
>.
"Pokemon almost never gets ridiculed for following the same formula." You sure about that?
Games are still super sellers & successful because of it, and even then they add new mechanics and tweaks and whatnot to differentiate each generation mechanically beyond the new Pokemon.
Black and white, Sun and Moon are completely different from regular Pokemon in the way the games are handled
@@SuperMarioT Fair enough. I just feel as though there's been a vocal minority in the pokemon fanbase that's grown tired of the games not substantially changing, especially since SWSH came out.
Star Warrior Even with controversy an all, whether some may hate them, SwSh can’t be denied that they ARE a mainline Pokémon games, the core formula is still the one everyone knows since Red and Blue, Paper Mario on the other hand it’s as if from Gen 6 to 8 the games played like early Pokémon Go, with Gamefreak refusing to change it back or do some majorly demanded improvements because it doesn’t feel like doing them, and TPC not minding a bit
@@starwarrior360 Pokemon fans are asking the series to evolve but usually still wants them to keep the core pillar of turn-based battles and captures. The demands of change are more interesting Pokemon, maybe more ways to use the Pokemon, more unique types of characters, maybe a more open journey like visiting any gym you want. I'm more about evolution than innovation for Pokemon
Toadsworth...where is Toadsworth?
The fact he’s saying this is how they always wanted it to look but couldn’t due to tech is a bold faced lie. Yoshi’s Story on N64 has a papercraft cardboard environment level (among other styles) They always had the ability to make the games look like this but CHOSE not to because it isn’t what they wanted it to look like.
Watch the fanboy apologist shills still try using this to support their paper good look argument.
Well if fanboys lie and act like grinding for exp was always needed to beat the previous games which was always a lie.
God damn the comment section in
Mayro's video defending exp being removed is infuriating and I hate how that little bitch of a coward disabled the comments in that video.
I didn't know Yoshi Story looked like that since I never played it. I've always been indifferent to the current artstyle, it's impossible for me to have a problem with it when I can't even look at someone straight in the face due to my low vision.
@@PipeGuy64Bit Considering how hostile some old and new Paper Mario fans are I can't blame him for doing so. While I do like TOK xp really should've been there. the grinding excuse fans made up was so stupid, the first 2 games were designed as rpgs for beginners. the only time I had to grind in a Mario rpg was Mario and Luigi.
Jeremy Knight They didn’t like the idea of beginners grinding... though it is very hard to appeal to bad & good gamers alike. Pretty bs though.
@@PipeGuy64Bit Bro.... Paper Mario 64 and TTYD doesn't *require* grinding. Sure, you *could* grind but, it isn't needed.
I mean... There's a reason why I've been sharing and linking different Paper Toad NPC artwork and even a unique world design map in the case of one of those characters for the past few days now on your Discord and even on PapaGeno's Discord. Not for nothin' but... That's honestly been a huge part of why I love Paper Mario.
It's unfortunate that for as well animated the Toads in the modern games can be that we can't have distinguishable traits like age, gender, hair, Toad _cap_ designs, etc. Like before. Even for as simple as they were in Paper Mario 64, they still helped make the world rich and alive.
Also what happened to like... The Koopatrols, the armoured elite Koopa troops of Bowser himself? Guess because they're not traditional Mario characters and/or are too "liberal" in design, they're not allowed to reappear or be reintroduced to Paper Mario.
This idea that they'd ruin the Mario brand when they weren't an issue until THEY chose to make it an issue... That kinda just annoys me more than anything else.
I can't relate to anyone who has played The Origami King as their first Paper Mario nor will I pretend to do so, but just know that... This... Divide has been around for years and unfortunately, the interviews just kinda confirm what us older fans were afraid of back then. That... Their current thought process is basically: Using the older Paper Mario style and creativity and surprises are mutually exclusive and cannot exist together.
_insert Sad Mario here_ 💔
EDIT: ADDED SOME LINKS TO THE TOAD NPC FANART!! Please check them out. ^_^
www.deviantart.com/zieghost/art/PM-TAB-Tour-T-and-Sweet-T-547709266
www.deviantart.com/the-papernes-guy/art/PM14-Maitre-T-265061849
www.deviantart.com/the-papernes-guy/art/PM14-Sacher-T-370159314
www.deviantart.com/the-papernes-guy/art/Paper-Mario-CoHC-Halcyon-Kingdom-Map-543187450
Bowser aligned baddies unique to paper mario like koopatrolls, ruff puffs, clubabs, or koopa strikers never showed up in the main games so Unfortunately yeah they're basically dead
Original Gameteer Koopatrols are in Mario Pinball Land and Super Princess Peach.
@@bunsmasterbunny Yep, which proves that the OG Paper Mario series take place in the main Mario universe.
Always looking forward to more content from you, man.
This Paper Mario ordeal is just exhausting.
Honestly, even as a person who grew up with the “new Paper Mario” and thoroughly enjoyed them, I was very disappointed with these interviews. I have played all the old games as well as the new games, and what really makes me like the new games less isn’t because of any lack of RPG elements or paper gimmicks (although I do like RPG gameplay more, as JRPG is my favorite video game genre). What I really liked about the first 3 games was the sense of immersion they provided. They really provided a colorful world based on the Mario universe with interesting characters and reasons to want to see the story through. I honestly feel like the whole “tattle system” of the first three games was what made them special. The developers made a conscience choice to write a piece of text for almost every character which provided lots of depth and really made you feel like part of a universe. While the new games certainly have funny dialogue and unique locations, I can’t help but feel that the worlds are just a little more bland and it really gives me less of a reason to complete the story or truly become immersed in the universe. Knowing that Paper Mario will probably not return to that level of detail for vague, nondescript, and fake sounding reasons really makes me sad
TL;DR
While I like all Paper Mario games, I like the old ones more than the new ones because of the world building and unique flavor they provide. Hearing weak and wimpy reasons for not creating worlds like that again is really disappointing to me.
Not based on. IN the Mario Universe.
I think that someone should tell Miyamoto about this, if Tanabe loves Miyamoto this much, going as far as to use Miyamoto’s simple fun philosophy THAT MIYAMOTO DOESN’T EVEN FOLLOW ANYMORE, than Miyamoto should be the one to put Tanabe In his place and tell him that his stubborn philosophy has changed in the past few years.
Tanabe’s insistence on making games that are for nobody is just....baffling....I know this is a bit extreme but these quotes make me want to knock Tanabe’s teeth out, in these interviews he’s basically just saying ‘Oh yeah the 70% of the fan base that have been complaining about the same few things for the past decade, yeah I don’t care, imma continue to make games that are either controversial or bad while looking at my picture of Miyamoto in a heart frame on my bedside table’.
I know it’s extreme but can you blame me for thinking this about someone who has ruined one of my favourite franchises and has acknowledged the decade old criticism and has blatantly ignored them? The answer probably varies depending on if you agree with me or not but, every one of these interviews just infuriates me even more to the point of near-combustion.
It’s just a sad thing to talk about, one of this franchises’ main guys doesn’t care about the criticism the vast majority of his game’s fan base give his games, and as stated in this video, this is ignoring one of the simplest relationships between a company and its consumers, developers with a brain bigger than a sand grain (anyone except Tanabe) would listen to criticism and base the next games off of improving what the last game got wrong, but with Tanabe, his philosophy goes something like this: ‘Imma keep doing what I’m doing, regardless if no one asked for it or wanted it, cool with that? Your answer doesn’t matter, your criticism is all paper thin’
INFERNO95 Like I said, he’s changed his philosophy since then, if he’s involved in a Mario game again, it’ll probably be a lot more creative than the last few games
Nope, he's just the same as Tanabe. He hates story in Mario games, I mean why do you think Mario galaxy 2's story got so dumbed down conpared to the first? Plus it was actually Yoshiaki Koizumi who snuck in a Mario story in Mario galaxy 1 *without Miyamoto's permission.*
@@time2e636 Also do you have proof of that? I've literally heard that Miyamoto doesn't want New donk city in Super Mario Odyssey because he said that it doesn't fit in a Mario game.
Go Weegee Yes, I do have proof, in this very video I’m pretty sure there are statements by Miyamoto saying he doesn’t want Mario to die with him so he’s giving more creative freedom to younger devs so Mario can live on
@@Noname-fb1mm actually well your half right appearently that’s what most people say but i’ve actually heard that myomoto actually Aproved the deeper rosalina backstory in mario galixy 1 and it’s made more believable when he allowed mario + rabbids to become its own game seories that’s a crossover plus with mario luigi bowsers inside story and it’s deep plot and let’s not forget about super paper mario it’s plot was the best in the entire franchise the only reason why tenobay thinks paper mario shouldn’t have a story is because myomoto “recommended” that it doesn’t need one he was just recommending that i’m sure he was ok with them having a deep story in paper mario after super that theory is backed up by dream team still having a deep story as well you don’t have to believe the whole myomoto doesn’t hate stories argument but it does make sense as my examples with super paper mario dream team and mario + rabbids are used to back up the theory ohh and let’s not forget about the big elephant in the room at this point mario + rabbids sparks of hope looks like it might be on the same level as dream team and paper mario ttyd so there’s that as well
Thank you for going over how Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi never had any discourse between them. I hate how people made up this narrative that Paper Mario fans were supposedly "jealous" ever since Sticker Star and Dream Team were the most recent games in their respective franchises. The infamous Color Splash intervew did cause some arguements but these were in very low numbers and only had a vocal minority to them. People started to cherrypick way too much and now pretend that Paper Mario fans "celebrated" Alpha Dream's bankruptcy.
Man, Tanabe has to be one of the most flawed developers I have seen. Each interview just keeps revealing how ignorant and close-minded this wack-job is. Honestly, I don't think PM is the only thing he needs to be removed from. This guy needs to be removed from game design in general. His philosophy is just not healthy in this profession. If he made his own series or got a hold of other Nintendo IPs (Zelda, Kirby, Animal Crossing, etc), can you imagine the amount of drastic changes he would do for each game and how ignorant he would be at their fans?
If he was able to make his own series, I think everyone would be much happier. He'd be able to do what he wanted, this series could be varied and interesting, without having preconceptions of what it *should* be. And maybe it'd let Paper Mario return to it's roots at the same time with someone else taking it up.
@@SuicidalImpulse You're not wrong about that. I can think of a few idiotic movie directors that would have benefited from using their own ideas rather than play in someone else's sandbox.
@@timothywoods8089 Uwe Boll would have more than just Rampage under his belt as a good film if he didn't slap video game titles on everything.
Hahaha what? Have you looked him up? He's made some amazing games, and he's a godly game developer. The only one he should stop developing is Paper Mario, because he doesn't understand it.
Ok I’m gonna stop u right there. He has made some great games. Just because you hate him for changing your favourite series doesn’t mean he has ruined others.
Tanabe and his team may be the most frustrating developers to listen to in the industry.
But can we do anything about it? The best we can do to them is pelt objects at them like Hurlhammers.
@@ericwijaya2119No, don't...but seriously, maybe it's time to push for a new Mario RPG IP that is like the Classic Paper Mario trilogy.
@@ericwijaya2119 Complaining to Tanabe and his development team doesn't seem to work, so perhaps complaining to his bosses might not be a bad idea?
@@matthewmuir8884 oh yeah. I would do that, but comparing the distance from where I currently am living to Intelligent Systems HQ, yeahhhh maybe one day.
@@ericwijaya2119 otis from back at the barnyard: “let’s go with the sledgehammer”and to that i say YES
Man, I was hoping that there wasn't an IP team. Either way, they can still use Piantas, Whittles, Bob Omb Buddies, Gearmos, Penguins, and more.
I love how all of those appeared in Mario Galaxy 2. It really shows how bullshit Tanabe’s argument is
I miss the pinatas and bob omb buddies.
@@jess648 Speaking of Mario Galaxy 2....
Rendum Guy mario 3d all stars is a ripoff imo. It should’ve also had Galaxy 2, 3D Land and maybe 64 DS imo
@@jess648 It kind of is.
Tanabe needs to be sacked... he’s going to kill a lot of Nintendo IP’s with his insane logic related to consumer experience and what he believes. He will do it to Metroid prime 4 like he did with federation force. It’s just not good. I’m waiting for a paper Mario game produced by koizumi san. One day maybe. Where the innovation and creativity can roam free, but still present the players with an experience that is complete, well thought through, meaningful and surprising for reasons that aren’t negative.
Actually he's already been removed from Metroid Prime 4, thank god, from what I've heard.
Yoshikai Nintendragon this is the best news I’ve heard all day. Every time I see his name on something or his photo somewhere I think... what will he ruin next.
Odds are he was trying to do to Prime 4 what happened with Paper Mario. He saw Other M bomb, decide "People don't want story or atmosphere in Metroid" and take it upon himself to make a generic shoot-em-up run and gun or something along those lines. Gone would be the hidden collectibles that actually *impact* the game, replaced with Samus starting with all her abilities. We'd probably also get a partner AI or the like to be our floating exposition dump. What's the dumbest idea I could think of... Ah, got it. A (new, different, but looks the same) metroid baby mixed with human dna so it can speak or something. The rest of the game would then be shooting Space Pirates to get to Shadow/Metal/Hyper/Paper/Phazon/Inkling Ridley at the end for the final boss battle.
Honestly I don't even care for new Paper Mario games. Nintendo will NEVER be able to top the first 3 games or even get remotely close to them. When gamecube games start getting ports to the Switch, if TTYD isn't there I riot.
Simon McLoughlin Federation Force wasn’t a bad game, and it definitely wasn’t comparable to Color Splash or Origami King. I’d sooner compare it conceptually to Four Swords Adventures, which in and of itself is a pretty amazing game. It ended up being a game ten times better than Tri Force Heroes, low a bar as that may be, and at least made sure to include the majority of iconic metroid set pieces including what ended up being one of the best escape sequences in the franchise, escaping with the metroid egg. Federation Force is pretty much precisely analogous to FSA, a pretty damn good metroid prime game which keeps the familiar mechanics but is structured in a stage format. And both kept enough of the spirit of the franchise’s story and mechanics to work, as opposed to Tri Force Heroes which is just a slogging chore to sit through all around. Blast Ball is just a fun bonus mode for Next Level to scratch their Mario Strikers itch and a callback to the Prime 3 minigame on the Olympus that doesn’t really get in the way of the game as a whole, like shadow battle in FSA.
How much of that was due to Sakamoto’s approach to metroid (almost completely antithetical to Miyamoto’s backwards philosophies about things like story and character diversity), and how much was due to Tanebe I can’t speak to, though.
As I said before, even with the restriction that they can't do anything with the characters that mainline Mario hasn't already, that doesn't stop them from not limiting NPCs and characters to only toads and using the most generic Mario enemies as enemies.
yea like the chain chomp partner that was supposed to be in sticker star it’s a shame that an indie studio made a game that i can at least still call a paper mario game that evolved ttyd’s gameplay over the actual sequels of paper mario freaking Love Bug Fables
Hey you! Yeah, you! The fan of Sticker Star, Color Splash and The Origami King! How much do you like these games? Are they some of your favorite games ever? Do you want more of them to come out in the future? Do you want Tanabe to know how much you've enjoyed them and hope he improves on what you liked about them specifically?
Guess what? HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU. He wants to make every single future entry in the series "different" for the sake of "variety" regardless of what is good game design and actually fun to play. Like the older games? He doesn't care about you. Like the newer games? He doesn't care about you. Like ALL of the games? That's not going to last forever.
HE NEEDS TO GO.
Nahuel Melis This fanbase has done nothing wrong.
@@tigrerojo9685 Elaborate
@@bunsmasterbunny Oh yea, the few bratty diehard TTYD fans harrassing people did nothing wrong! :D
Minty 64 They didn’t do that till the toxic positivity Nintendo fanbase harassed them.
@@bunsmasterbunny Don't listen to him. He's tried to get a rise out of people who like TTYD on several comments
i swear these interviews are finding new ways to piss me off as a fan of the first 3 games
2:06 Wait hold on, So they always wanted Paper Mario to look how it does now they just couldn't do it earlier due to hardware limitations? I can kinda see where they're coming from. There's a lot of things you can do with paper so for the first 2 they did a pop up book and comic book style.
4:12 ...I seriously thought we could finally let that whole "Paper Mario changed because of Mario and Luigi" thing die. I understand wanting to try new things but to change it because there was another Mario RPG series is so dumb. This excuse wasn't brought up until Color Splash, did they have this in mind with Super and Sticker Star?
9:47 like I said on the previous Paper Mario video they didn't have to scrap the original battle system. They could've found ways to add the 3D Flip, Stickers, Cards/Paint and the battle rings. Tanabe really should pay attention to what Miyamoto is doing now. Miyamoto's old mindset was so conservative in the worst way.
15:04 So they've had creative control this whole time but the IP team is what's causing these restrictions? well at least we know Miyamoto isn't really involved. That IP team really needs to lighten up, them not being allowed to make female Mushroom Kingdom characters to even old people is absolutely insane. But I still wonder why this is a restriction *specifically* with Paper Mario and not Luigi's Mansion or any other Mario spinoff series.
Despite me liking Modern Paper Mario it really sucks that it's in such a ridiculous position with gameplay and creativeness.
Jeremy Knight That’s a bold faced lie on his part. Yoshi’s Story has cardboard environments and much more papery looking sprites than Paper Mario does and that was also on the N64.
@@bunsmasterbunny Exactly. Also, the OG Paper Mario series has never been about Paper. The storybook aesthetic is just an artstyle if anything. The story doesn't have anything to do with paper. The characters are all made of flesh, and the world and universe take place in the main Mario universe.
@@retrofan4963 Exactly.
@@retrofan4963 Well, it has A THING to do with paper: It's told via an ilustrated storybook with pages made of paper. That's what the franchise was about, a series of storybooks about Mario. The characters never acted like they were made of paper because that was just saying "you are inside a storybook in the mario world."
@@N12015 The stories are told through a storybook about the adventures about Mario in the main Mario universe. Not about the characters being literally made out of paper. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I just want to know WHY these restrictions even exist because we know miyamoto has nothing to do with this change in direction (he didn’t even like SS) and it’s just Tanabe who’s degraded the series so much. Don’t understand why Tanabe just chooses to ignore all of the fans who want the old gameplay back
They don’t want to confuse people who don’t know much about Mario so they keep everyone in a default form at all times? Like if they made a Back to the Future film where Marty wears that one red jacket in every scene
@@conorburke1999 But it's kinda confusing as spin-offs usually cater to those who played the main series games -- it's kinda expected they know stuff from those first before getting into the spin-offs. Also it's freaking Mario, it's likely gonna sell even if they modify it a bit.
@@conorburke1999 yeah but having the spin offs being like the main games makes them feel very stale. back then the spin off tried to be different from the main line games. so if you wanted something different you always had the mario rpgs when you got burnt out by the normal mario style.
but ever since nsmb everything needs to be the same Mario wise even the spin offs.
yea thank god for bug fables it’s what modern paper mario should be yknow an actual rpg with original characters deep story and rpg elements so i’ll be playing bug fables instead as tenobay has myomotos words from 2010 too far up his ass to care about the complaints
I wouldnt want Paper Mario in Smash if it’s just the newer trio than the old trio
He's just making the games look like they're nothing else but an ego-stroke for himself, he just doesn't get that he has to make the games for the fans of the series, but no, all Tanabe thinks is "me, me, me and me"
It seems he has listened to a certain extent given TOK has fixed many problems from sticker star and colour splash and given a large amount of fans just demand tyyd 2 it’s ok if he doesn’t listen to a few.
@@ToadTheBuilder He doesn't listen to anyone, the way he added "Partners" only without letting us control them and having them be temporary feels like he only did it out of spite.
It's been 16 years, at this point it'd be more unique and innovative to make Paper Mario an RPG rather than whatever it is now.
@@Yoshiinite To be fair I did say to a certain extent. And its pretty obvious that Paper Mario is a puzzle game now and I see little-no reason why it needs to be an RPG to be innovated given a lot of good ideas were put in this game so it wouldn't be as bad as sticker-star and colour splash. I dont think TOK is a perfect game but to judge his listening as he didn't fully fix the partners is a bit irrational given they'd have pretty similiar attack patterns to mario since it'd make the ring battle system a bit more complicated if they didn't.
ToadTheBuilder It’s not okay to abandon your fans, change genre’s/roots.
@@ToadTheBuilder Sticker Star was fucking boring, I 100% the game and it still sucked.
Paper Mario should return to its roots at some point, honestly they really should do one RPG and one adventure game, then RPG again, so the fans aren't as alienated as they are right now.
I'm not saying Origami King was awful or anything, I also played that game and I can say it's the best of the modern Paper Mario trilogy, but you know what?
Tanabe already got rid of everything he did in Origami King, he said so already, the ring system is gone and god knows whatever he'll come up with since he thinks change for the sake of change is better than improving on whatever he has.
It's frustrating.
Part of what Aonuma and the Zelda team did when making BOTW was to to make sure the game still felt like Zelda. To analyze and determine what elements are important and need to stay, and many consider BOTW one of the most innovative Zelda games, despite it still, for the most part feeling like Zelda.
Paper Mario can innovate and also still be derivative of what the series should be.
I've said this a million times, but many Zelda fans always wanted what BotW was.
AkameGaKillfan777 All of the 3D games are loved by the majority of people. Even if some have greater hatebases than others, each still has many more people that like them than don’t. All 3D Zelda games are the correct way to have Zelda in 3D. They each have variations on the three core foundations of Zelda (Exploration, Combat, and Puzzle Solving) some focus on one aspect more than the others, but each game is clearly a high quality product and each are still Zelda games. BOTW is great and beloved by most people, but the previous games are still great and beloved by most people as well.
@@bunsmasterbunny Actually, Twilight Princess many people found to be disappointing and Skyward Sword is DESPISED by people who don't like it.
Back before BotW was revealed, everywhere I went people were saying they wanted a big open-world for the next game. Several of my real-life friends have said the same thing.
@@AkameGaKillfan777 Mostly because many players have an unnatural hatred of anything called "linear". Especially after the open-world boom in gaming. Even though some linearity is needed in order to create some form of progression, which in term creates a reward system for players to engage in, which usually are still in said nonlinear games.
Also, as a massive Zelda fan, there's a huge hypocrisy in the argument of the Love BotW but Hate SS/TP group, because BotW is praised for being exploration focused and non-linear, but SS and TP are hated for "boring" tear collecting quests, which are the least linear sections in both games.
@@amandaslough125 SS is also hated because Fi is Navi 2.0, the motion controls aren't optimized as well as they should be, you revisit areas for story progression, the Imprisoned and the ending is dragged out more than it should be.
Honestly, it's time for some new blood in Nintendo. Tanabe keeps smothering Paper Mario. If I'm not mistaken, he was part of Metroid Prime Federation Force dev team too so... ugh. I've said it's been dead since SS but my god... it's just parading a corpse around acting like its alive at this point.
Mario in general has gotten pretty stale to me at this point. Oddesy was a wonderful surprise but before that? Nothing really grabbed me since Galaxy 1 and the M&L games.
We've been getting that at Nintendo, hence Odyssey, Tennis & Super Mario Party. The problem is specifically Intelligent Systems w/ Paper Mario.
What about Mario Maker 1 and 2? Or Mario Rabbis Kingdom battle?
@@crfstewarje4597 Eh i see the appeal but just not for me. Played alot of the 2D ones growing up and i know the whole point is playing other peoples levels but i just can't get into it like i used to.
With Rabbids it was a neat crossover and Rabbid Peach is amazing but it's kinda babies first tactical turn based. I don't hate it or mean to say it's worse than, I'd just rather play Xcom instead.
@@ViewtifulBeau babies' first tactical turn based huh?
I heard it was pretty hard bro.
@@SuperMarioT unfortunately that’s true as almost every other nentendo seories has gotten out of the quote nsmb phase it’s paper mario that’s not getting out of it which is insanely hypocritical at this point 😒
Thank you so much for making these videos. Seriously I cant thank you enough for you taking this time to point everything out. It's so heartbreaking and disappointing to see one of my most favorite series turn out like this. I'm so tired of this.
I just love Paper Mario too much probably.
@@SuperMarioT There's a reason for that. Thank you so much for liking and replying to my comment. Your videos on this topic need to be seen by more people. I subscribed. Thanks again and keep up the good work. 👍
@@SuperMarioT You aren't alone, and the fact the first three Paper Mario games were able to get people to enjoy them to this level of passion shows they did something right.
@@Cerebrum123 agreed
I'm pretty sure Nintendo's PR department shut down. Who keeps greenlighting these interviews? I'm glad we're understanding what's going on but this does not make Nintendo look good.
Yeah.
I like your channel :)
I'd argue that we're better off knowing these interviews
@@bk7064 Thank you!
@@AkameGaKillfan777 Oh for sure! It's just shocking the word is getting out there.
With all due respect to Tanabe, he needs to step down. Look I wanna be nice, but I don't think I can to someone who blatantly doesn't care what fans want.
The unfortunate thing is that as long as the games sell well, Nintendo and Intelligent Systems won't care. Color Splash may of sold abysmally, but I think the primary reason for that was because it was on a failed console. Meanwhile both Sticker Star and Origami King sold really well.
@@MrTherandomguy42 Sticker Star did not sell well. It only sold about 200k more than TTYD despite being on a system with over FIFTY MILLION MORE UNITS sold. Also they started development of CS IMMEDIATELY after SS released so they were NEVER going to listen to criticism. Iwata himself even said the rest of the series should follow the SS formula.
He needs to be fired
He is the reason paper mario games is starting to get worse and worse
@@AkameGaKillfan777and to add insult to injury most people were deceived by the beta version of sticker star where it looked like a sequel to ttyd if that trailer was never shown most people would have known it wasn’t a sequel to ttyd and would have boycotted the game entirely like most did with coler splash including myself
Innovation for its own sake is not inherently a good thing.
Mario Party changed it’s core fundamentals for the sake of it and the games became less fun to play as a result.
Mario & Luigi used the same core gameplay for five games and nobody complained.
i disagree with mario party i hated the old system from before mario party 9 as your forced to wait your turn with the other characters in the first 8 games and doesn’t even try to fix the issue of maps taking Way too long almost an hour like wth at least in mario party 9 10 and star rush they fixed the issue completely by having everyone move at once don’t get me wrong i hate mario party 10 too but for completely different reasons than it not being like the first 8 if anything that would have made me hate 10 more no offense at least with modern mario party it evolved the older format and made it better can’t say the same for paper mario and my favorites would have to be star rush and island tour because at least they evolved the horse crap formula from the first 8 games and fixed it
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare Ever hear of punctuation?
@@conorburke1999 yea i didn’t really think to use it at the moment
I just feel bad for Intelligent Systems(Paper Mario's developers), they are allowed to go nuts for games like Three Houses and WarioWare Gold with WarioWare even having voice acting and a ton of new characters but gets creatively shackled when it comes to Paper Mario. Previously Paper Mario's stories have things like fighting bird Hulk Hogan, going to a toybox to fight a Shy Guy military commander, and the death of the universe but now it is just generic done to death enemies and tropes with an emphasis on the paper part in Paper Mario when that was supposed to be just a set dressing for the storyboard set up of Paper Mario. Peach can't even have a character in Paper Mario now since Paper Mario just reverted to the same tired, sexist, and overplayed kidnapped damsel in distress trope used in the mainlined games.
It's even more frustrating when looking at early screenshots of sticker star with the monty mole king boss, the card maze and the chain chomp partner
@@callmeninaiced i agree with you the only reason paper mario is the way it is now is strictly Because myamoto looked at the sticker star beta version of sticker star and commented on it being just a port of ttyd if he wouldn’t have said anything paper mario today might still be an rpg and because it’s not i’m boycotting it for bug fables especially after these frustrating interviews 😢
i agree with you unfortunately they were originally making a game like ttyd with original characters as we saw in the early development of sticker star but the higher ups came in and stopped them and told them to not use any original characters or to create original characters that are based on the mario universe so unfortunately it’s just not possible to have original characters from the first 3 games because the higher ups at nentendo Just Won’t Let Them Do It
If Mario can hang out with realistically proportioned humans and fight a Dark Souls Dragon in Odyssey, I don't think a Goomba with a hat is going to break the Mario universe
Heck, in Odyssey, there are also Goombas with hats and the Mario universe is still intact, so now there's literally no excuse!
^-^
@@Majokodomo Exactly!
@Jillth The Chinchilla makes me want to shred his limbs with a shredder.
@@Majokodomo yep
@@Majokodomo i agree with you back in the supposed nsmb wii era i can see why they’d not make new characters it’s because they were being restricted in almost every way but after oddisy released and luigies mansion 3 introduced the original portrait ghosts there’s no excuse to not create brand new characters in the mario universe hell you fight a freaking dark souls dragon in oddisy and absolutely No One said why’s this dragon in mario it doesn’t belong there why because as soon as you added that character it becomes part of the mario universe so they can definitely create new characters and tenobay is just being hypocritical to other mario games like oddisy and luigies mansion 3 that have original characters and it’s pretty stupid if you ask me
“If we kept using the same game system that the fans want, we wouldn’t be able to surprise them or offer them new gaming experiences.”
Mario and Luigi games: “Hello There”
Also unrelated note, I FINALLY started TTYD today, hopefully it’s as good as people say it is because it is the only PM game I haven’t played up until now.
Because your direct partner dying at the end of the game for the THIRD time is totally unexpected, right?
@@AkameGaKillfan777 Oh but this time we have two partners die, and one of them is a direct retcon of the first two games. That's twice the amount of unnecessary death, so it's twice as good. /sarcasm
Cerebrum No such thing as a retcon. Fan trope. It’s just non canon.
to be fair after bis mario and luigi hit a brick wall.
@@megamike15 Mostly because they didn't give enough twists to use that same story structure they have had since Superstar Saga.
Kensuke Tanabe: Video Game's Stubborn Lolcow
more like,
Kensuke Tanabe: Video Game's Biggest Ego
@@PaperAiden more like,
Kensuke Tanabe, can go rot in eternal flame for all i care.
Oh Tanabe Tanabe Tanabe... wasn't enough for him to ruin Chibi Robo?
Guess not
And don't forget Metroid Prime: Federation Force. Tanabe also made that one and nearly ruined Metroid Prime in the process.
nope as well as metroid prime fedoration force and paper mario too he sucks as a game producer
Why? Just why? I'm just done with this series. Tanabe has to be the worst, most tone deaf game dev ever. He's directly stated he doesn't care about fan feedback, thinks innovation is removing every good part of a series, and he's STILL working for Nintendo? And Paper Mario isn't the only series he's ruined, he also ruined Chibi Robo and Metroid. The worst paet about this though, at least to me, is the fact that people STILL defend these actions! LIke, seriously! Nintendo isn't your mom/dad! If they're screwing up, especially as badly as Paper Mario, we have the right to criticize them!
Exactly. Seems to me that Nintendo does not understand this series or its audience. It's disappointing and frustrating.
I don't think the newer fans deserve to defend him. If they took a step back and took Paper Mario out of the discussion, I think they'd see that this is factually a bad mentality for a game designer. Hell, I know plenty of people and a few friends who greatly enjoy the newer games and are still pissed off.
@@brantchristy3490 Exactly.
"Nintendo isn't your mom/dad!"
YES!!! THANK YOU!!!
Even if we are mad about this, the best we can do is throw objects at him.
I have too many words. Most of my thoughts are rehashing your points, but I think two big ones I can add to discussion.
Miyamoto's Advice
Tanabe misunderstood Miyamoto's original game philosophy, and rolled overboard with it. Yes, Miyamoto always prefered a focus on gameplay over story, and always praised creativity and innovation. However, his thought process, shown within the games, was to focus on making the core gameplay solid, and then innovating the flavor around that core. Mario is a platformer, and his main gimmick was jumping, so most enemies were created to be defeated via the ability to jump. After creating the basic concept of jump, you can then add in wall jumps, spin jumps, long jumps etc as the games progress. Nintendo was always known by that gameplay first mentality. Which is fine, the company makes some solid games everyone likes to play. But getting that basic game structure down first gives the game it's proper foundation, and most game analyses identify that as a strength of many solid games even outside of Nintendo.
However, Tanabe isn't fully thinking through the game structure he keeps recreating in the paper gimmicks. He actually keeps repeating the same game structure issues, leaving the gameplay system unrewarding. So the games have to rely on the story to keep players engaged into to finish. That's what happened SPM, players stayed more so for the story. But the modern games can't fully carry the gamer experience all the way through since they went back to generic Bowser stories and with heavy pun filled dialog. You can write a story for any game. You can write a reason to have any gameplay justified. But the gameplay needs to be worth justifying, and the stories don't even try hard enough.
Plus, the first game wasn't even Mario Story. Paper Mario was originally supposed to be a sequel to Super Mario RPG (with Geno). Even M&L took inspiration from that game. So in it's inception, the series really was rpg first. That paper theme from the beginning concept is so wrong.
The character restrictions.
I can see the basic branding. Even in Luigi's Mansion 3, and Odyssey, the original cast technically doesn't change. The boos, toads, goombas etc; all stick to the generic character designs. It's brand new characters outside of the Mushroom Kingdom that are new and creative. Why can't we, say, visit the BeanBean Kingdom again (I know, AlphaTeam creation)? Or another land, to have new races? Or one of those other islands surrounding the waters of Isle Delfino? Heck, why can't Piantas, and Nokis, and more Lumas, and Cataquacks come back? Why does every enemy have to be from a pre-2000s game sans King Boo and Petey? Sonic at least tries to acknowledge the games the franchise won't completely return to, even while pandering to the classics and Boost decade creations.
And even with that, why does the 'art style' not really change with each game? Even to better match the new themes. I mean mostly the characters. I know the 'white outline' is a common fanbase debate, but it should have been only there in Sticker Star, because that was the sticker game. SPM didn't get the art style change because the Mario party needed to be the same as TTYD to differentiate from the digital angle of dimension hopping (Plus it was originally a GC title ported to the Wii, so TTYD engine). Color Splash was paint focused. Why couldn't the game have textures that looked more like acryllic paint? Why couldn't the characters look like they were painted and then cut out, instead of being flat stickers again? Doesn't even need to be something dramatic like palette knife oil painting. Imagine a Paper Mario game with a water color design over everything like how Okami incorporated sumi-e painting into the look. That would be beautiful. If they actually made a new art style each game, it wouldn't matter if there were thousands of toads of the same normal design, because they'd have completely new textures and visually would look 'new and interesting'. Push the whole 2D on 3D further with referencing animation for something. Make one classic cartoon, Cuphead style. Why can't we get a game with a vector art style like Shantae Half-Genie Hero? Or one with the same art style as the opening for Sonic Riders? Like, have some fun here. We're stuck in diorama visuals. Because paper.
Also, office supplies. Inanimate objects aren't fun, and also really boring to properly animate. Sure, take the office supply concept, but make actually creative characters from it. Why couldn't the colored pencils be a squad of multicolored soldiers? Those can be brainless enough to follow orders. Incorporate an Arms-like character into the wire monster thing, the thing coming down the stairs in the trailer. I know of a how-to-draw manga book that uses three art supply characters as tip giving mascots throughout the book. There's a paint palette based priestess who guards colors and a fountain ink pen based rookie knight, led by a paint brush based magical girl sorcerer. Shoo, I want the blade-leg lady from League of Legends, Camille, to get a voodoo doll-esque Sewn Chaos skin incorporating scissor blades as her legs with the handles used to create her hips; and needle on thread spools for her Attack on Titan-esque hookshot ability. I need to finish drawing that skin concept out! There are ways to do what they're 'stuck' doing, and still be more creative.
Tanabe doesn't want to return PM to it's roots because it would be admitting that the what's-his-name producer of the first two and a half games did a better job.
Ok, now i actually REALLY, no joke, want this guy DEAD.
So it's almost the same as the current state of the Sonic franchise. Wow
Just that in this case, even with the limitations, the games that are being made have a quality standart
With Sonic, Sega just panics whenever a new gameplay formula isn't received well right away instead of refining it in a new game. The only exception was the Adventure games and that was because of them going multi platform.
@gama, Not even close to a comparison. Paper Mario has odd design choice in terms of character limitations, and the battle system is controversial. But at the end of the day, the game still has a sense of polish, clever writing, and good level design. The same *cannot* be said for a game like Sonic Forces.
At least with Sonic it’s not 100% obvious what the series should do next
@@PipeGuy64Bit True even if the gameplay style is good. Get rid of it.
It honestly , after going thru all this information, that Tanabe and the higher ups in charge of Paper Mario are just too prideful.
It's like why when making a game, a Nintendo first party no less, would you be like hmm OK mediocre sounds good. Like why shoot for that? The colorsplash/sticker star system doesn't grab people like the old style did.
Then they want to be like oh let's take a tip toe in the OG Paper Mario direction but not fully commit and again it misses the mark. They could be pushing out CLASSICS but instead push out future shovel ware that will be overshadowed by it's peers. Just baffling. There is no excuse, Nintendo is one of the most successful companies in the history of the Earth , they have the resources. Fucking use them. Listen to the people who pay your bills and cause your shares to have any made up value in the first place.
hood ee That’s Tanabe dude. Did you even watch the video? Intelligent Games is in almost full control over Paper Mario, not Nintendo. I mean, the direction the series is going in could be good, it’s just that the guy is super close-minded because he is unable to figure out that you can make changes to the old formula. He literally makes no sense at all, that’s why all the old & new fans hate him, he thought that removing the things that allow creativity would make more creativity, he just sounds stupid.
@@emmamora7 I agree I'm not sure what you mean in the beginning of your reply I mention Tanabe.
One thing i've never understood is if they wanted to make an action/adventure game, WHY DON'T THEY FULLY COMMIT TO IT!!! Having a battle system is one of the key elements to an rpg, and yet, the past 3 paper mario games aren't classified as an rpg, depite all 3 of them having battle systems. EXP and a battle system complement eachother very well. That's why people liked the old paper marios and the mario and luigi games. But if you throw one of those aspects out the window, it just doesn't work. Don't get me wrong, there are a bunch of games that perform very well with only having EXP and no battle system, but it just doesn't work if you try to do it the other way around. Because without EXP, the battle system becomes tedious, time-consuming, and pointless. Right now, the best thing they can do for paper mario is actually pick a side, perferably the rpg side. If they decide to go with the action-adventure side, it would be a little dissapointing, but at least they made their choice. Cause right now, they have the worst of both sides. A battle system from the rpg side, and getting nothing from the battle system from the action/adventure side(cause if you actually got something meaningful, like level ups, the game would also be considered an rpg, along with it being an action adventure). One more thing. I don't understand what's so hard about giving fans what they want. Lets say you were a game designer or director. Sticker star came out a few months ago. Your job is to make another paper mario game. Now, which paper mario game do you make a sequal to: the first two, which everyone loved, spm (the one everyone had mixed feelings over, but was positive overall), or the game that everyone hated (sticker star)? It should of been a no-brainer. Make a sequal to the game that everyone loved,and get alot of money because the fans loved the game, right? But for some reason, that never happened. Instead, they made a sequal to the game everyone hated(sticker star). AND on top of that, color splash was a flop when it came to sales, so I still don't understand why they don't get the message that we want a sequal to the originals. Btw sorry if this was long to read, I had to get this off my chest
Tons of game genres have real-time combat. I haven't seen a single game with turn-based combat that is NOT an RPG.
This video is great man! This shed a lot of light on the situation. The limitations are stupid to say the least.
They say they want to surprise us...yet since sticker star it looks and sounds like the same game. No reason to even fight. Collecting things such as stickers, paint or confetti that's scattered across the world, partner that dies at the end, no original characters, a ludicrous amount of toads, need I go on?
Tanabe and his team might as well not bother making any attempts in appealing both new, and old fans. They should just stick with the "modern" fans, as Tanabe continues feinting ignorance of what fans truly want. As I said before, that interview is nothing more but hypocrisy and contradictory. Sadly regardless the mount of criticisms and counterpoints Tanabe receives, he'll continue shaping Paper Mario in his way.
This won't change until Tanabe and his team are no longer in charge.
The frustrating thing about all of this is how EASY it is to fix this dilemma. Just. Give. The. People. What. They. Want. Which is the series to go back to its roots along with the traditional combat.
I wish Tanabe can just understand that a series can still be innovative while still keeping the core fundamentals & unique aspects of PM1&2. Why can’t he just take notes on Mario & Luigi? They never needed to change their battle system & they were still able to keep things fresh.
He knows, it is how he made 3 Sticker Stars.
@@Cerebrum123 😂
@@Cerebrum123 i finished The Origami King and i dont see it as Sticker Star 3.
Its an amazing game, but that doesnt mean i dont want Tanabe to be scorched for his hubris.
@@ericwijaya2119 It's got everything I hated about Sticker Star and more to hate. Higher resolution graphics and competent level design don't make up for the fact it's a slightly streamlined Sticker Star continuation. It's got the same obsession with paper, an actually less creative and less fun battle system, even worse boss design, and even mocks fans of the classic games by putting their criticism into the mouth of the main villain.
@@Cerebrum123 your tastes are different i can tell.
I just wish Tanabe would watch this. Someone needs to call him out already!
@Jillth The Chinchilla if there's one thing i wanna take away from him cause of this, it is everything.
EVERYTHING HE VALUES MOST.
Seems like the criticism we give falls on deaf ears. These limits seem kind of self-imposed rather than because of Nintendo's IP, and it feels as if that's an excuse to not be a little more bold with the creativity of this series.
All of this information gives me a bad taste about Tanabe and his philosophy of game design. As someone who is working towards that same goal, one thing I know I should NEVER do, in the profession of business in general, is to outright ignore feedback and criticism of the fans and critics. Those people basically pay your bills. And to add on to all this, the gameplay style that nearly everyone is basically screaming for to not be brought back...might not even be used in favor of something that may be completely different rather than sticking to your guns and keep what you said was going to be "the new standard".
I think Mr. Tanabe might need to take a big backseat for a while.
This is really making me sad now to see paper Mario go down like that
I dont understand why they cant just listen to their fans. It's not that hard
Because they don't want to.
It's as simple as that.
They simply believe they know what'll work best
Whether they right or wrong... is a whole nother story
@@almondjoy4938
Which is stupid and wrong:/
@@almondjoy4938 yeah.. but they could be making more money
@@joyconboyasmr6499 Oh, ok, I can hear the meetings right now!
Worker 1: Let's see what the fans say... TTYD Remaster... TTYD sequel... more remaster!
Worker 2: Wow, great options!
Worker 3: Some of them sound like bratty fanbo-
**dead**
Perfect!
I’m still proud of myself for not shelling $60 for origami king
For my own sanity, from now on I will be waiting for Bug Fables 2 instead of a new Paper Mario.
I really, really want to scream right now. Buuuut I have neighbors.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
@@NitwitsWorld that helped. 😄
@@cliffturbo2146 :)
*Do it*
I just wish Moonsprout Games developed a new Paper Mario game with some key OG PM designers...
I said it before and I'll say it again. Paper Mario needs a new director.
agreed
I am really enjoying Origami King, but I do agree that the one thing holding it back is its not re-rooting itself in its RPG traditions. You can innovate your battle systems while still remaining rooted.
That's literally what innovation is. It's not supposed to be the same thing as originality
@@AkameGaKillfan777 yep
This is just frustrating honestly
(Color Splash)
Tanabe: Go play Mario and Luigi if you're looking for an RPG game.
(Origami King, after AlphaDream went bankrupt)
Tanabe: There's another Mario RPG series with Mario in it ...
(Meanwhile, at the Kirby studio)
Shinya Kumazaki: You guys like Kirby Triple Deluxe? Here's Kirby on a robot!
🤣
I think still holding onto hope for a return to form after these interviews is just masochism. And like you said, I have no idea why they keep the turn-based battles if they really want to move away from all the rpg elements.
On a not-entirely-related note, if you enjoy PM64 and haven't checked out the Paper Mario: Master Quest (Jr) mod then I highly recommend it.
Tanabe infuriates me.
You think "infuriated" is bad? Bro, i have compiled so much rage over this guy that i want him to die.
yea you and me both
Eurogamer was very unforgiven with those key questions kudos for that
"I am not against the opinions of fans"
Don't fucking tease us, bro, just say you don't care what we have to say so we know for sure that you're only interested in making what you want to make.
“If we keep using the same game system the fans want, we wouldn’t be able to surprise them or offer new gaming experiences.”
Actually, you can; you just have to be actually good at designing games >.>
I think the Paper Mario series as a whole is a very rare case of the consumers being completely in the know about which creative liberties are being sacrificed, and which ones are being prioritized; the sacrificed ones being the extremely, /extremely/ well done RPG elements, far-reaching plots and stakes, and some of the most interesting and unique characters that Nintendo's ever produced imo, and the prioritized ones being this over-done, tongue-in-cheek focus on the paper theme, laughable plots and stakes, and a group of Toads bigger than my future in the place of any truly interesting characters.
Now, we may never know how much this modern era of creative liberties had to do with the disappearance of the design philosophies of PM64, TTYD, or even SPM; for all we know, they had no intention on revisiting those elements anyway. But, since we have little reason to believe that these modern designs didn't completely erase these beloved RPG styles, I think fans of the old series, such as myself, are absolutely, positively allowed to be furious at the direction the series has taken.
If you enjoy the modern era of games, power to you; people should be allowed to enjoy things. But if you dig deep into what's going on behind the scenes, I think it's incredibly naive to think that a lot of the design philosophy that led to this modern era is not disturbing at worst, and ignorant at best. Tanabe has to go.
What do I make of TOK? It's fine. It is a perfectly fine game. Worth $80? Definitely not. It feels incredibly half-assed to me, and I'm just really sick of seeing a fantastic RPG series be melted down into Tanabe's silly little playground.
Top-class coverage all around SuperMarioT (y)
I just thought of this: if Paper Mario turned into a strategy RPG in the same vein as Fire Emblem, it would be a big departure, but if it had the story and characters you've come to expect in Paper Mario and TTYD and a battle system, while not turn based was still deep and meaningful, it'd at the very least be received better because its still an RPG, but it's a different RPG.
Also small thing but I'd say Dragon Quest never departs from its formula and still manages to succeed. Final Fantasy has taken gambles before like the weapon proficiency system in FFII and the Junction system in FFVIII and, while they have their fans, people dislike them compared to the standard turn based gameplay or dislike it because of the dramatic departure from the norm (see FFXIII). OVERALL good vid as always but damn this is getting ridiculous lol
Dragon of Kansai The FF7 remake battle style has gained popularity among its fans where some fans love getting into boss battles on purpose.
@@mechashadow I don't doubt that as it seems well designed, and the heart of FFVII is still there despite the liberties that were made. Just remember that Yoshinori Kitase wanted the story to move far away from the roots of the original while Nomura was the one who wanted to pay a proper homage.
Dragon of Kansai That’s interesting, from a creator perspective I can understand where both sides are coming from.
We know that because that's what happened with Super. A radical change in subgenre BUT it still has some of the hearth of the original.
@@N12015 yea which is why super paper mario wasn’t panned by the fans “most of the fans” obviously some hate super paper mario to this day for being different from ttyd and 64 but at least it still felt like a true paper mario game at heart hell it’s honestly one of my favorites in the seories with ttyd coming at a close 2nd place
Damn. Even as someone who loves all the new paper Mario games, even sticker star a little, this makes me pissed. I haven’t played any of the older paper Mario games, but boy oh boy if they can make a game like that than everyone would be happy. Well, at least paper Mario to me is still good, but it could be better if they made a rpg like the older paper games.
Don't forget to get the original on Wii U Virtual Console before it shuts down.
I'd reccomend you install the homebrew channel on the Wii U's Wii mode (or on an actual Wii if you have one) and then use Nintendont to load up TTYD cause it's too expensive second hand.
As long as you have a USB Key formatted to FAT32 that's set to 32KB, it's actually not too hard with a decent tutorial.
Stonetown3487 huh, Unfortunately I sold my WiiU a few years ago, but I can try the homebrew on my Wii. Thanks for that!
@@vilk1754
Step 1: Download the Homebrew Channel
czcams.com/video/Y3jq8dVe2ug/video.html
Step 2: Download and sort the files of the Homebrew Browser
czcams.com/video/Kx31xQKvcwM/video.html
Step 3: Download Nintendont (the Gamecube Loader) on the Homebrew browser.
Step 4: Download the game's file to your computer on a ROM site.
Step 5: Sort the files/folders of Nintendont and the game itself:
czcams.com/video/heuz_YmnyrM/video.html
Install Bootmii and/or Hackmii to ensure you don't brick your system.
If you live in the PAL region and have component cables, you can turn on progressive scan in the Nintendont settings (which is normally only possible in the NTSC version for some bullshit reason)
It's not emualtion, so the game will run flawlessly
You can Homebrew the first game with Not64, but it sounds like it has problems from this description:
"Turn on FB Textures and the game will work fine, other wise you will have small-big graphics glitches, save for minor graphical glitches that do not affect gameplay. Turn FB Textures off during boss battles. There is a high chance of getting a code dump error during boss battles. Playable from start to finish.wii64 1.2 rice also seems to play fine besides some flahsing on some scenes , choose what you think its better."
Stonetown3487 Damn, thank you for all of this information. I will probably come back in a while
Sigh... I just wish they would listen. I'm so tired of this.
Dude, I have a headache over this.
@@SuperMarioT it's so sad knowing this is the only Mario RPG Spinoff left, and Nintendo is milking the hell out of it. I shouldn't have to explain the problems with modern, it's like writing a book.
Devin S. Well not really
Oh they hear and know, they just don't care. That's fine, I'll just spend my money elsewhere.
@@SweaterSwagg They don't give a fuck about Paper Mario like they don't give a fuck about Waluigi. It's Iifurauting and grows toxicity.
I feel like Paper Mario is going down the path of Pokémon since no matter what fans have to say about what they want out of the series, the criticism will be deflected as “you’re just mad it sold well therefore, your opinion is invalid.” Both games are now catered to a casual crowd who will just pick up the game for brand recognition vs the legacy that the game leaves behind which ironically damages the brand’s quality in the long run. The more interviews I hear about this series, the more depressing it is for a person who grew up with the series and just wanted them to stop experimenting just because they can and refusing to listen to criticism. I’d even take a Super Paper Mario 2 at this point because at least that game still felt like Paper Mario. It’s sad when you have to rely on indie/fan games to satisfy the urge to play games developers don’t want to make anymore.
Why is Tanabe always the one taking these interviews? Isnt he only a producer? Can we hear what the director thinks? Shouldn’t the director be the one with the most vision and influence on the project? Is this really supposed to be something the players are meant to enjoy or is it all just Tanabe’s personal vanity project?
I would also like to see the director's side of the story.It would be interesting to see his perspective on the Paper Mario series.
I hope good ol' Shiggy Miayadiggy interjects at some point.
I didn’t end up buying PMtOK once these interviews surfaced. I thought they might of learned something about fan feedback after Color Splash’s abysmal sales, but apparently they didn’t. After learning they didn’t listen to fan feedback I was like: “I’m not supporting this.”
Honestly, Tanabe is downright hypocritical. This guy needs to be fired... RIGHT... NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
As much as we want that to happen, none of us have as much as authority as Miyamoto to do so. Best we can do is throw stuff or something at him to express our hatred of him. Other than that, there is nothing else to be done.
i agree with you his supposed philosophies are just hypocritical to all the other nentendo games that feature original characters and follow the current direction of the seories
"I am not against the opinions of the fans. However, I consider my game development philosophy to be independent of that"
This is why you should be fired.
"If we kept using the same game system that the fans want, we wouldn't be able to surprise them or offer them new gaming experiences."
And this is why you should find a new career. You obviously don't have the chops to be a game designer if you can't think of ANY innovation in an RPG, Tanabe.
this is hilarious because Paper Mario 64 was building on Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars battle mechanics while spinning it into their own thing and TTYD improved upon it even more while being unique and original which is the opposite of Tanabe
@@jess648 Honestly, I've half a mind to add 'Which is the opposite of Tanabe' to any review that ends with 'Unique and original'.
@@Firellius Oh you want me to innovate a Paper Mario TTYD like game huh? heheh. Paper Mario: The Pages of Existence, a mix between Paper Mario TTYD and Super Mario 64, where you collect pages, the more you collect the more chapters you unlock, and Paper Mario TTYD for the Partners, Story, and Battle System. A clever mix of genres.
And Tanabe cant do that!
I don't know why they have limits when making Paper Mario, because I'm not a game designer but I'm pretty sure that if you are making a game you are allow to do or make what you want for that game, and if people have requests that can make the game better than you do it if you want, but if you are annoying people that have been asking for a game to return to form for 8 years and you still annoy what they want is kind selfish, I'm not saying their selfish because I know that they want to make a game for people to enjoy, but lot of people think their being selfish for not listening to them, lets take Sakurai for example when is thinking of characters to put in Smash he's been looking at what the fans want to having, characters like Sonic, Mega Man, Ridley,Simon, K Rool, and Banjo those are some of the characters that people have to be in Smash and what did he do, he added them in, now sure you can say that he added characters like Corrin and Byleth to Smash that people didn't want (which I don't mind because I like them but he added characters people wanted in Smash since Melee, so why can't Tanabe and his team do that, I love Paper Mario the Origami King but they really need to start listening to us
Like a wise Ant said:
"Man, he needs to shut his mouth"
"It's not that bad" needs to stop being the acceptable standard for the series
@@AkameGaKillfan777 agreed. it needs to be "its DAMN good."
what i mean of course is that we should get DAMN good games.
@@PaperAiden i agree with you on that
"If we kept using the same game system that the fans want, we wouldn't be able to surpirse them or offer them new gaming experiences." Bullshit. You can add new gameplay mechanics that innovate upon the formula of those games. Add the 2D to 3D mechanic to TTYD. THERE! INNOVATION! "I am not against the opinions of the fans. However, I consider my game development philosophy to be independent of that." So you are just going to ignore their criticisms because it doesn't they are different from your ideals? That is just stupid.
And yet people are still trying to defend him and the series. We're not allowed to criticize things anymore, huh?
@@HollowLeif I know right? It's stupid. Tanabe actively ignores fan feedback and criticism and just tries to experiement for the sake of it. He even said it is a "neccessity" to change the battle system. He claims it's Miyamoto's philosophy, yet Miyamoto himself doesn't even have that philosophy anymore. People really need to stop defending him. I don't hate Tanabe, but his philosophy is just tone deaf and ridiculous.
@@Dragular yea i agree with you it’s not even myomotos philosophy anymore and yea i honestly agree with you my friend i don’t hate tenobay i just don’t like what he’s doing with one of my first rpg seories
So basically, his mindset is that every game has to be like going from zelda 1 to 2, no matter what, which completely defeats the purpose of a SERIES, and not just making a new IP or spinoff. Riiiiiiiiight. Remind me why this man is so respected in Nintendo again?
It's because he was co-producer for some of their better games, like Link's Awakening. The thing is that then, he was actually being a producer. It seems like ever since he became sole producer for different series, he's become more authoritative on what each game is supposed to be, and, I'm sorry, but isn't that the job of a game's director, not it's producer?
@@matthewmuir8884 yea it’s supposed to be the directer that says what a game is supposed to be not the producer if tenobay is telling them what the game should be then he’s one insane producer
All they had to do was add partners and bring back the old battle system, they at the very least could of made it that you could choose which battle system you want and use that instead of being forced to do puzzles.
So Tanabe says he doesn't want to keep doing the same thing over and over again (Paper Mario's original turn based mechanics)... yet he keeps doing the same thing over and over again (re-inventing the battle system)? That's a paradox and a half. Also blatant hypocrisy. Shame on him.
"yet he keeps doing the same thing over and over again (re-inventing the battle system)?"
He's not reinventing anything. He's just giving us Sticker Star with a new coat of paint, sometimes literally.
@@espurrseyes42 Exactly my point. His own argument contradicts itself.
@@charlescaulkins8306 someone get me a blowtorch, i feel like sending Tanabe to hellfire!
@@espurrseyes42 yea that’s true
This sounds kind of rude but I honestly want Tanabe and the people that put all these dumb character restrictions on Paper Mario to be fired from Intelligent Systems. They are so stubborn and egotistical and don’t care about their consumers at all. They say they want to make Paper Mario new and unique but Color Splash and Origami King are very similar to Sticker Star and they know how much hate Sticker Star got but they still continue to push the series with arts and crafts, generic toads everywhere, worthless battles, and lacking a good interesting story that mostly all the Paper Mario fans hate. It would be a miracle if they just went back to what made Paper Mario great but I just accepted that it will never go back to it’s original form. I can’t wait for Paper Mario Crayon Chaos and Paper Mario Tape Trouble to come out!(sarcasm)
Thinking about this more I think I finally understand what Tanabe's deal is. He holds Shigeru Miyamoto in such high esteem, and took his "advice" which resulted in Sticker Star. Miyamoto thought Sticker Star was boring, so now he's trying to prove that Sticker Star can be made fun with just some minor adjustments to try and "redeem" himself.
Insane if true, like he really wants to validate his view on how Paper Mario should be done -- it kinda seems to be working for some people, but it is insane if this is really just a passion project that only his way is done.
@@zjzr08 I went back and read an old Iwata Asks interview, and the guy is actually afraid to upset Miyamoto. He also stated that Sticker Star was the standard going forward. If I had seen that part of the interview I would never have even given TOK a chance. Probably would have been better off for it too.
The Paper Mario situation aside, I wonder if 4:12 was a hint at a new Mario & Luigi game and that the series isn't completely dead.
Maybe, that could be another potential interpretation of it? I personally don't see it.
I doubt it since he's never been involved with any M&L game other than being a Supervisor for Paper Jam.
i doubt it i think tenobay is just using the mario and luigi seories still as an excuse to not make paper mario an rpg again which is definitely outdated advice at this point as he’s still using it as an excuse i swear if he says there’s another mario rpg seories with the next paper mario game 4 years from now people are gonna riot if they haven’t already
I love every Paper Mario Game. I get your points and hope the fans get what they want. Either way it goes I'll love it! Great points you made!🤙🏾
Very amazing video.
Smash uses same formula and sometimes screw up somethings compared to each other I enjoy them. That's why I think they aren't really innovative.
The thing is, Origami King shows they have the CAPACITY to create an amazing game, but they hold themselves back with these bizarre philosophies. If Origami King just had more varied characters it would have been an even better game than it already is.
but that’s the problem it’s not just bizarre restrictions it’s the higher ups putting these restrictions on the paper mario games i don’t know why it’s so hard to understand that it’s physically Impossible to get original characters anymore because they just don’t want them to paper mario isn’t the only series that suffered from this rule 2d mario luigies mansion dark moon 3d land and world and even mario party and mario and luigi suffered from the restrictions put on from the higher ups at nentendo if those first 3 games didn’t have original characters i bet people wouldn’t even be complaining about these restrictions and it’s just sad that these games get hate on them just because of the higher ups putting these restrictions onto most of the mario franchises when it’s not the end of mario because of it