Confused European Sailor Describes The Great Christian Kingdom of India (1499) // Vasco Da Gama
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Extracts from "A Journal of the First Voyage of Vasco da Gama 1497-1499" translated by E. G. RAVENSTEIN, F.R.G.S.
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Portuguese: hey are you Muslim.
India: no.
Portuguese: Christian it is, then.
Well, if you've been instructed to find the Christian king of India or you'll get beheaded, you're gonna "find" that Christian king of India
India had a large Christian population before the muslims and Portuguese.
Actually Southern Indian state of Kerala had a nestorian christian population centered around the city of cochin.
The interesting point is that south india had a indigenous Christian king. It was from the Villarvattom dynasty
@@alangervasis they were not nestorian
Portuguese looking at the Hindu temple
"Look at this huge church !!!"
Lol They must be calling Padmanabh Swamy as the father of chesus.
They don't fight anyone stronger than their fleet can afford they just assume them to be Christian and move along, catholicisation was a just an excuse to placate ppl off colonisation's atrocities, either church or corporatism (in this case east india company) their 'policies' were just cope for stealing from others what they didn't have, spice in itself was just masquerade
Look all this beautiful carvings of the saints 🤣
@@andrij3078 what will happen if they visit Khajuraho temples 🤣 saints doing reproduction
@@pkgpk5564 You do know that Christianity came to India and Flourished In kerala in 1st century itself. Your idea of India as Just a hindu country is appalling.
He's not confused, lol. He just didn't want to be executed for not finding the Christian king in India.
🤣imagine if the king of Portugal told him we are going back to the Christian king you found in India 😂🥲
I have respect for Portugese exploring Shii but they are funny they even thought our Ethiopian chritsian king was Preston John 😂but they helped defeated musilms ottomans Somalis arebia muskutteers at Battle of Wayna Daga which important part of Ethiopia history
@@aradat9671 😁
No one cares.
No, christians for long time thought that indians were descendants of Ham or something, son of noah.
@@ankithooda1536 That is true that there was a European racial theory that some of the darker races including some Indians were descendants of ham. This later developed into the theory of Hamites which was used to explain why the "Negriod" race did not construct ruins in Africa and other colonized areas (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamites). Disgusting. However, What does this theory have to do with them believing that this specific kingdom of Indians were Christians? In the biblical flood myth, Noah and his family were the only humans to survive the flood. All of humanity was, supposedly, descendants of Noah, but not all of humanity was Christian. They were aware that pagans existed after all they are in the bible. Why is the Son of Ham theory relevant here?
"Hare Krish- what? You mean Christus? Amen brother."
There have been churches in india for 2000 years
@@jknott1509 But it certainly doesn't sound like this is a church. He mentions "saints" with many arms. Sounds like they just wanted to believe they were Christians.
Nice
Not actually as funny as it seems. Look in to the parallels of Jesus' youth and that of Krishna's.
You clearly are speaking of the Church rather than Christianity. You are parroting popular dogma and fears and seemingly understand nothing of the underlying mysteries. I assure you the Hindu mysteries and the Christian are the same, as they both have the same root, namely Abraham. Don't believe it? Do the research, starting with the ancient rabbis.
'We're looking for Christians. And spices. And spicy Christians."
czcams.com/video/E9hqBYN-OK4/video.html
Da Gama going back to his king: "Indians Sir? Yeah they're a bunch of spicy Christians"
Lmao
@@kakalimukherjee3297 yeah boy at last😀🤣🤣
@@byron-ih2ge the lord hath caught me at last🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Portuguese guy: guys, just say you're Christian. my life depends on it.
Indians: okayyy....
"These Portuguese are dangerous, what shall we do my King?"
"Just tell them we're Christian and send them along."
Unfortunately that Jedi mind trick didn't work on the British.
Its always the first guy that means well that has his goals twisted and corrupted by the evil Sith lords.
@@helium-379 Because the Portuguese were more easy-going. The British just killed everything in sight.
@@Nutty151 Actually, Da Gama kidnapped like 15 people after negotiations broke down, and left. Most of his men starved or died of scurvy because he left India during the wrong season and couldn't catch any wind.
@@Nutty151 portuguese easy going HAHAHAHAH ok
"Not to return to Portugal until he had discovered the king of the Christians, on pain of having his head cut off".
Well, that explains why he insisted in them being "Christians".
Smart deduction. Portuguese culture is pretty cunning, that's why the Indians were skeptical of their rich lands yet no gold gifts
He made the right call.
He led, lied and to himself and his crew untill it was lie no more
Syrian Christians and their descendants/converts have existed in Kerala since the 1st century AD.
@@rejectionistmanifesto8836 but no Christian king.
There were Christians in India when he arrived in India but the people he actually saw were not Christian they were indeed Hindu and the king of Calicut was no way Christian he was Hindu...
And they definitely didn't speak Portuguese lol.
There were Christians in india though.
@@jknott1509 well i I specially mentioned there were, so I don't know what you wanna point out
@@bapo224 yeah definitely and the various saint in the so called Christian church were another demigods of Hinduism it is very common in south indian architecture to carve out demigods on walls and he also mentioned the white powder which they apply on their forehead which the Christians in India never do only the South Indian Hindus have this tradition
Yes, he lied so he wouldn't have his head cut off. Funny enough though, there were christians and he just couldn't find them lol.
"May the devil take thee, what brought you here"
This is how I shall greet people who knock on my door now
Should have told that to the East India company, Dutch EIC, Portuguese etc
I can assure you portuguese grandparents still use that phrase a lot.
"Que o diabo te leve, quem te trouxe cá"
My housemate flirted with some mormon missionaries the first time they came around and now they won't stop coming around asking for him.
This is how I shall greet them next time.
Portuguese to the Hindus - "Good day, fellow Christians!"
Actual native Indian Christians living in southern India for the last 1400 yrs - "bruh"
I thought Nestorians lived more in the north? Near Gujarat?
@@the11382 there were Christians in South too.
@@the11382 There are the Saint Thomas Christians in the South.
The st Thomas Christians are the 8th wonder of the world. Theyre an oasis
@@johnnotrealname8168 ig oldest Indian Christians are Syrian Christians afaik
"They threw Holy water on us then charged us 100 Rupees"
I understood that reference.
I think...
@@Kretek I don't think is has anything to do with the legend of Zelda lol.
@@shanecarubbi7864 Hahaha that's what i was thinking xD
Nothing has changed.
@@shanecarubbi7864 I was thinking about Bald to be honest :P
Later when the Portuguese met the actual Christians living in Southern India
Portuguese - "Praise the Lord! Let us celebrate together"
St Thomas Christians - "Yes, let us praise the Lord indeed"
Portuguese - "Ain't the Pope in Rome awesome?"
St Thomas Christians - "Who?"
Portuguese pointing fingers, wide eyed in horror - "INFIDELS!!!"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoma_of_Villarvattom
They knew who the pope was, Pope eugene IV sent a letter to the king of Villarvattom about the council of florence.
@@Sharcos1498 lol.. yeah, I knew they were aware of the Pope in Rome.
Just being silly.
It took a few years before relations between the Portuguese and Nasranis deteriorated
I mean Kannaya (St.Thomas) christians are litterlay catholic. Or atleast one sect is, the others one isn't..
@@luxinvictus9018 Which was the second? Do you mean Pope of Alexandria?
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc well benedict is still alive
Tall bronze mast with a bird is the Garuda Stamba. The bird is an Eagle. This is clearly a Vishnu Temple. The people with the thread across their body are Bhrahmins.
its a devi temple, our lady.....may be lakshmi.
5:57 This four arm warrior-christian-saint is really cool
Level max
Not too weird for them.
In the middle ages, some newly converted Christians in Europe were carving or painting the Holy Trinity as a "three headed one body figure" and you can still see some of them around in the some old old churches in mainland Europe.
Obviously, the higher ups in the Church were not too happy with this description as it also went against basic Christian theology.
So you can see why the Portuguese would have just seen multi-headed and multi armed drawings as just a different artistic style and not thought too much about it
🤣🤣
Yup Father of Jesus, the God himself 😚😉
Max Character in a p2w game
I love how the Indian King was not very impressed with his gifts.
Offcourse , indeed we Indians are especially Keralites are so much obsessed with gold . Even today they are the largest consumers of gold in India.
@@sreejithsiva7885 ya that's show is airports 😅😂
@@dkbros1592 😂😂
@@dkbros1592 Gold Case😂
He be like:what the hell
"8 arms? An elephant head? Yeah the old testament was wild where's your gold"
Your joke was my favorite good job
@@hobodave4655 czcams.com/video/E9hqBYN-OK4/video.html
That's a deity in India called Lord ganesha
@@aayushtiwari4357 Of course. My joke is that the Dutch sailor confused their statues of Lord Ganesha with scenes from the old testament depicting men with the heads of elephants and lions.
@A genuine Atheist yeah a deity we worship we believe he'll bring good luck 🍀🤞 ,😊 and may God bless you too buddy
As another awkward westerner who went to India, I identify with de gama being given the face paint and going “uh, thanks I’ll put it on later...”
You have as much similarity to Da Gama as to the Ancient Indians.
@@gersakkun your point is well taken, but it doesn’t change the fact I had a similar experience in India. Just a lightweight self deprecating observation
@@russellwest8767 yeah I didn't want the facepaint either...
@@gersakkun see i spent most of my life in prison. I go in and when i get out again everything is a little bigger, a little faster, little crazier. Thats been going on. nowadays you got about 50000 Napoleons and 10000 jesus christs all running around at once - Charles Manson
Guess we found one of the modern de gamas
@@gersakkun be real, if Russel west had been in de gamas shoes the story would have been twice as epic
“So, are you Muslim or Christian”?
“We’re Hindu. Hinduism is a diverse system of thought marked by a range of philosophies and shared concepts, rituals, cosmological systems, pilgrimage sites and shared textual sources”
“Right… So, are you Muslim or Christian”?
“…”
They would not say , we are hindus. They would say their cast (Jatthi) name . That is what denotes them. According to philosophy, they say their specific. E.g.Vaishnava, smartha, theravada,etc or locals say their kuladevata. ..like "followers of particular deity"
@@vishnuvardhan3047 bs they would say to a foreigner that theybare 'Arya' meaning a Indian of noble origins. Throught the history high society people were called Arya.
"Sir, for the last time, we are neither!"
"I see... So you are..."
*"WE ARE NOT JEWS EITHER!"*
@@pkgpk5564 no they would not say voluntarily . If someone calls then arya they feel proud because they are called as Noble in their mothertounge.
We didn't call ourselves Hindu back then.
Its my state kerala... And this quote of calling our women ugly is well known as it was the opening statement of the famous movie Urumi about vascos attrocities in calicut...
I heard there was a christian tale in kerala, people used to call the Flamboyant(Poinciana) tree as the Tree of the Cross, as they atributed the red color of its flowers to Jesus blood, who drifted to its leaves.
Did the Keralites return the favour by calling the Portuguese women ugly too?
@@watcher4127 Why should anyone take the words of an illeterate criminal 500 years ago seriously.
@@44krishnan79 People with complexes
@Merit Ocrassie Well, he did return to Callicut and proceed to bomb the shit out of the place and impose his will on the Indian coast through violence and oppression. But I really don't think that's the kind of "greatness that all men seek."
"You are Christians?"
"Krishna....yes!"
You have missed out on the best parts of the tale. The encounters on the East African Coast, the meeting with the Gujrati pilot in Mombasa and the Radhanite Jew that helped the Portuguese sail back. I think you should make videos on these parts of the tale.
These type of comments are so funny. Watches a whole video, reading a source … and Ayush wants him to add this in lol.
Probably because it includes Africans. You know how people are when talking about black history
Never give them credit
@@Strawhalo or because he's reading a direct source and that source doesn't mention anything about an African. Not everything is racist and you don't have to make assumptions without doing any research.
@@Strawhalo are you one of those 'we wuz kangz' people? You guys are nuts man .
I always wonder how gujarati and Tamils crossed the sea in ancient and medieval times ? Wansnt it considered unholy In hinduism to cross the sea?
The Portuguese entry into India is utterly fascinating also because of how early they arrived there and were the last ones to leave.
Heck, the Portuguese arrived and were already running Goa for over 2 decades before the Mughuls had even invaded India.
By the time Akbar the Great was ruling India, the Portuguese had become a mainstay in the region and the Portuguese were even present at his court.
Ever thought a fleet of Ottoman ships would be waging a war in the Arabian Sea off the coast of Gujarat?
Yup, that's cos they were there to fight the Portuguese after the Sultan of Gujarat asked for their assistance.
Da Gama was even buried in India for years before his remains were sent back to Portugal.
And Da Gama's son, Christobal, would go on to fight and die on a Crusade in Africa, commanding a battalion of Portuguese soldiers fighting on the side of the Ethiopian Christian King and his Army - his actions pretty much helped ensure that the Ethiopian Christian kingdom would remain in existence as it would have pretty much been wiped out by their Islamic neighbors otherwise, who had invaded it
Holy fuck. I never thought about the timeline
Thank you greatly for sharing your historical knowledge, that sure is an impressive thou forgotten history.
Though no one took much notice of the Portuguese who remained relatively irrelevant in the court of the Mughals 😂😂😂
@@haideraliibnakhlaq8823 this is because the Portuguese never really made any inroads into mainland India, choosing rather multiple port cities, which they controlled. This is also probably the reason why the Mughuls didn't think the English were much of a threat - just a bunch of traders on the periphery.
The Mughuls had bigger threats across the subcontinent.
The Portuguese were really OP at one point before they got patched
Damn the King kind of roasted them and he was just being honest lol
After some time Portuguese use bribe and assassinated king
@@warlandpaint no never, Calicut was never conquered by Portuguese
@@nambudiripad6452 Shhh stick with european accounts else you will have a swarm of white supremacists attacking you here
@@warlandpaint damn
@@nambudiripad6452 i don't claim Portuguese conquered calicut but ..... Assassination happened.
After this Vasco da Gama became (obviously) rich and powerful but also his brother, Pedro da Gama, became the foremost shipbuilder in Portugal for a time, they bought a lot of land and to be fair, that real estate kept the family very wealthy for centuries
They were good footballers too those brothers.
LMAO they confused a Hindu temple with a Christian monastery!!!
If you look at Cathedrals build in the Gothic style in medieval Europe, with the thousands of statuettes of saints on the outside and inside, it makes perfect sense they would think they are looking at an Indian version of a Gothic church
@@savioblanc Yeah I get that, but I'm pretty sure it would only take a few hours at most to figure it out and not write a damn chronicle about it
@@nonomnismoriar9051 I doubt he truly thought they were Christians. I think he simply lied and constructed this narrative so the Portugese king wouldn't freak the fuck out lol
@@DavidAMarin Yea could be.
It would take only a few hours to figure it out ? You mean with Google on your cell phone? I wonder how you would manage to not do the same confusion, not knowing the land, the language, etc.. Not knowing half of the planet actually. Now it seems easy...
I learnt in school that Gama arrived at Kozhikode and the following events that sparked years of political turmoil. But, the perspective of a sailor aboard the ship was refreshing.
@@luxinvictus9018 See, I think differently. The history taught in school often clean, like they say the Brits came to India looking for spices, and they happened to establish capital in Calcutta. Spice trade was along the western coast.
In reality, India was a major producer of opium in the Bengal Bihar Orissa region, this opium was smuggled into China. The EICs Robert Clive and Warren Hastings became very rich and accumulated a great personal wealth from this drug trade. We are not taught that, we are taught to believe that Brits got rich off of tea and pepper. There was a seedy history of filth that people forget when it comes to colonialism from slave trade to drug smuggling.
Also they don't give a clear picture, they say India as if it existed all along. When infact there were empires that united indian states but they were shortlived. They forget about the collaborative efforts of the native kings and paint them as innocent by standers. They downplay the participation of other organisations in Independence movement other than the ones that are Congress or Congress allied.
thats why India's education system is worst and useless why we need to learn about de gama in history?what the use of this
Ur history books is written by Britisher
@@NationalistBhartiyagama wasn't a " Britisher" .
Dumba**.
8:44 i like how the Indian keralites laughed at their gifts for the king..
White earth = Vibhuti(ash)
Thread from shoulder =janivar (wore by hindu priests)
As an Indian I'm really amused by his description and parallels that he draws with his own culture .
We(Indians) welcomed them(Europeans) with at most respect and ended up being subjects to them. What mistake we did?
Weak mindedness, jealousy amongst indians, superstitious beliefs. Did you know that the most sophisticated technology in India is found in Indus Valley in 2000 BCE? Since that ancient time India has not advanced much. Meanwhile Europe is not as old as India but in a matter of 400 years they have far exceeded Indian culture in accomplishments.
@@historyandculture562 Though, after Islamic invasions, one can see decline in Indian culture. Especially during the later mughals.
@@srikrishnak196 taj mahal
@@meroqero1476 what?are we telling the wonders of the world?Oki......
.
.
.
.
Great wall of china
@@meroqero1476 taj mahal? Thats nothing infront of our ancient hindu temples
There were Christians in India way before Missionaries got there though. They are the St Thomas Christians since 52 AD. Actual later missionaries were shocked and I mean shocked when they met them.
Ig Syrian Christians are the oldest Indian Christians afaik
It's not technically right. St Thomas never came to India and the so called st. Thomas Christian at that time were foreginers living in India whom came as traders and settled here. The modern Christians in Kerala are not the descendants of those christians, like they claim. It's a false assertion, present christians are converts from local people.
@@samuelroot6045 I’m among one of the ancient Christian families, and the churches of Kerala which are thousands of years old proves it
@@samuelroot6045 The converts wants to believe that they are somehow connected with St Thomas and then there are facts
St Thomas, the disciple of Jesus died in India. Maybe thats why st Thomas christian.
man this channel is such a gem
The Roman Empire was very familiar with India and conducted extensive trade with the kingdoms there. There have been great hoards of Roman silver coins found in India. However, after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, the Dark Ages, Muslims blocking off access to the routes to the East, and over a 1000 years passing, the Portuguese hadn't a clue.
No. They knew of it as all Medieval Europeans did. This is attested. Probably didn't really know anything about it though but that's typical of any distance place.
@@skyworm8006 Well, that's what I meant: it's one think to know OF something but entirely something else to be knowledgeable about it.
@@julianhermanubis6800 It was probably because with the fall of the Roman empire, the knowledge about the Indian Monsoon winds that made the long voyage possible, was lost. Vasvo De Gama barely made it with luck, most of his crew had died by the time he reached the shores.
They did trade with India though there's commentary by an elder in the Senate mentioned in Dr Tharoor s speech at Oxford that they where concerned of the amount of gold that got sent to india for textiles because roman women loved them. They are quoted as being as light as woven air
@@Daredevil311-g9l I know that quote from the Roman writer (although I forget which one at the moment, but maybe it was Seneca). Yes, the upper-class Romans had an appetite for luxury goods, and India either produced them or was a conduit for goods from further east in Asia. Despite the cranky Roman writer's complaints, I think the trade was generally beneficial for both Rome and India, or it wouldn't have continued for so long. It's a shame this ended.
So the captain was ordered to find the Christian king of India on pain of death, and they found him almost instantly 🤔 I wonder...
"In this church I saw a painting of many teeth and 4 or 5 arms." Christian guy: Looks right to me!
czcams.com/video/E9hqBYN-OK4/video.html
Tbf every Christian group adapted their traditional cultural iconography to their depictions of the tales of the faith. I mean you can't tell the difference between Jesus and the pagan gods of greece and rome for hundreds of years. Jesus looked essentially like a buddhavista in east asia.
My favorite is wizard jesus tho with the magic wand casting spells
@@TheEvolver311 I believe they were in a hindu temple by the description but were not smart enough to realize it.
@@TheEvolver311 buddhavista? Surely you mean Bodhisattva?
@@honest_bishop5905👍people who are pedantic in CZcams chat as if I don't have better things to do then give a fuck a spell checking a comment to you
There was a Jewish principality in Kerala , India also by Joseph Rabban . We Christians call ourselves saint Thomas Christians and until Portuguese incidents every Christians here lived like Jews .
Maybe they encountered Saint Thomas' Christians? They're mostly in the West Coast of India, right?
Yes they did in Kochi later. In Calicut there were no Christians back then.
Yes... But they were also under the impression that Hindus were really misguided Christians... They only realized that the Hindus were not in fact Christians when the came across and interacted with real Saints Thomas' Christians
@@zamor_da - Same thing.
@@zamor_da so what?
@@LuisAldamiz not really
Recently watched a lecture by Sanjay Subrahmanyam on Vasco da Gama. Vasco's Jewish translator, Gaspar da India, seemed to provide him some weird information, such as how the port-kingdoms east of Calicut were all Christian (including Bengal, Ceylon, Melaka, Sumatra, and Cambodia).
Could have been a way to ensure all of these areas did not get cannons to the face?
That's Jews for you.
@@joer9156 - No. There were also Jews but there were many Christians since Antiquity. Remember that Rome's almost only foreign venture was to trade with India, via Egypt and that brought some Roman art influences and certainly Christianity (Syriac branch).
@@LuisAldamiz Saint Thomas converted a lot of Indians even before the conversion of Constantine . This guy is ignorant
@@joaoribeiro5938 - St. Thomas is legendary AFAIK but there was in any case some expansion of Christianity to India in Roman times, that we can agree to.
Ancient Christians existed in Kerala but they weren’t the people Gama is describing (the King and places/peoples he described were Hindu, specifically the Kingdom of Kozhikode). The Syrian Christians also called Nasrani or St. Thomas Christians had lived in Kerala, India for centuries before the Portuguese arrived. According to tradition they are the descendants of the converts of St. Thomas the Apostle, Syrian Merchants, and later local converts. They were a powerful minority due to the fact that Syrian Merchant magnates such as Knai Thoma (4th-8th century) and Sabrisho (9th Century) who arrived to the port cities of Kodungallur and Kollam respectively, received copper plate grants of socio-economic and religious rights (one of these plate-sets is still extant today). The Nasrani were major spice traders and also held positions such as ministers, tax collectors, and warriors in the Hindu Kingdoms they inhabited such as the Kingdom of Kochi, the Kingdom of Kodungallur, the Kingdom of Vadakkumkur/Thekkumkur, etc. They are in fact one of the oldest Christian communities still in existence today. Colonial officials such as Antonio De Gouvea (1602), Francis Ros (1604), Diogo Do Couto (1611), and many others would write heavily about them.
Yes. Yet, fools in India say Christians had existed only after the British arrival.
@@musicstaroffl That is true for most of India. Kerala is an exception.
Warriors? Lol, no. Religious and caste segregation has always been a thing in India. While xtians definitely had influence due to trade, they were not warriors. Because most hindu soldier castes would have refused to serve under them. The only proper non hindu kingdom in Kerala were the Arakkals who were served by the mappilas. Christians never had that sort of population.
@@multiversetraveller3118 That’s not true, there are records from the Portuguese era that note of Nasrani’s serving as soldiers under the Hindu Kingdoms. Not only that, Syrian Christians have the surname Panicker which is shared with the Nairs. The surname was only given to warrior families who served, taught, and propagated the Kalari, essentially the historic martial arts institute of Kerala which created warriors.
@@multiversetraveller3118 What you don't know is Syrian Christians were considered just below Brahmins.They were equivalent to Nairs(Nairs are the Kerala equivalent of Kshatriyas in Northern India). Syrian Christians are not given and will never be given reservation owing to this.
When Portugal realized that hindus are not Christian what they have done to us after that is totally horrible
I'm so glad that my Gaud Saraswat Brahmin ancestors converted to Christianity ❤
The Portuguese abolished sati, gender inequality, caste discrimination, gaumutra drinking and other social evils.
@@aldrintoscano probably rped your great great grand mom and then you came
@@aldrintoscano 😂😂😂 ok then
@@aldrintoscano Christians literally burned women for witchcraft aligations and thought earth is flat lmao.
@@aldrintoscano they probably plucked the breastz of some of your women too.
"What the hell are you doing here, so far from home?" As a travelling portuguese myself, I can tell you this still happens.
Thank you for posting this episode, I am Luso-Indian (of Portuguese descent) my ancestor probably landed in Calicut.
Muitos portugueses de agora têm saudades de todos os portugueses de ontem... enfim, esse Portugal já não existe.
Probably a later wave but who kows?
or was just a convert who took up a portuguese name?
@@anonymouslyopinionated656 look up the Portuguese who landed in Cochin. My surname is listed there. Most of my family still lives in Cochin, Kerala.
Lol, you're just another dravidian.
Another great video guys!
Some Notes:
There were definitely Christians in India at the time, and they formed a sizeable minority in the general region where da Gama first arrived. They just didn't rule any empire, and they certainly weren't everywhere in Calicut (or Kozhikode as it is now called), which was ruled by a Hindu kingdom at the time, with a largely Muslim trading class.
That description of a 'church' sounds more like a temple than anything else lol. It's possibly the Thali Temple, an ancient and significant temple in that city.
The 'Melon' sounds like a Jackfruit.
Finally, any Religion can be Christianity if you have to worry about your head being cut off if it isn't
Yeah I think it’s pretty clear to everyone including the narrator that these are Hindus, he’s just reading out the original source.
@@bobmcbob9856 oh I know! I was adding some further background. My family hails from a nearby city
_'Any Religion can be Christianity if you have to worry about your head being cut off it isn't.'_ Bingo.
No, Christians were extremely low in numbers. Only Syrian Christians existed that time and in numbers comparable to Parsees. That would make a miniscule minority.
While the other Christians in Kerala now were converted only recently during the time of British colonization.
@@asmirann3636 actually no, the british were protestants and if they even converted they wouldn't be catholic as the british hates Catholicism, southern kerala already had a sizeable minority of Christians but northern kerala didn't have this. Christians in Kerala can be called Syrian or latin the Syrian Christians are the oldest while the Latin Catholics are the people who were mainly converted by the portugese
There was a Christian kingdom that was located in the South of India, called as Villaravattom, which is the only Christian kingdom in the entire history of Indian subcontinent.
Europeans had heard about it and even taught that he was the emperor of entire India, but the dynasty was just a ruler of small kingdom located somewhere in the corner of the subcontinent.
One of the reasons why Gama came to India was to find that Indian Christian dynasty. But by the time he had arrived, Villaravattom dynasty ended due to the last king having no male heir.
Did the kingdom survive
@@jdlc903 No it collapsed, due to its last king having no male heir. Technically, it was a vassal state of a neighbouring kingdom, so when it's last king died of old age, neighbouring kingdom just took direct control of the area they indirectly controlled.
The story is that the merchants of this kingdom traveled far to Europe to trade. It was only then that the merchants gave a word that there was a huge Christian country in India. Only then, Europeans sent expedition in Search of that Indian Kingdom and Vascodagama arrived to Kolkata.
The intention was to go to Christian kingdom on India and greet those people because , after the Roman suppression of Christians (after crucifixion of Christ), Christians fled to India and stayed there. After the Romans fell down from power, Christians from India went back to Syria and Israel and from there they started to spread Christianity.
@@vishnuvardhan3047 U r wrong here, Vasco da Gama didn't went to Kolkata he went to Calicut, which is present day Kozhikode, Kerala.
What you said about Syrian Christians are also wrong, Syrian Christians were in India since the beginning of Christianity, even long before the advent of Christianity in Roman Empire.
@@apogeelord7013 Syrian Christians are there ...... When?
Put facts not your opinion
Thank you! Please, you have to do the letter of Pêro Vaz de Caminha to King D. Manuel I, after the official discovery of Brazil.
Vas o: who are you
Indians: Krishna Chand swamy
Vasco oh: Christians army
Vasco Da Gama: Hey... Why is Jesus painted blue?
Don't mind that its just cultural differences nothing to pay too much attention to
The interesting point is that south india had a indigenous Christian king. It was from the Villarvattom dynasty
St Thomas Christians?
There is still 6 million christians there
@@Discotekh_Dynasty No, eastern Nestorians. St Thomas is a myth, they are descended from the Syriac church.
@@bogdanbogdanoff5164 saying st thomas is a myth is like saying columbus is a myth. How can someone be a myth when the community that he supposedly started still exist to this day?
@@icarus6492 in the same way prestor jon was a myth likely based on ethiopia or emperor Jimmu
Excellent video, nicely done and professionally presented. Thank you.
Vasco Da Gama: “The women were ugly.” Te us how you really feel!
The irony of him describing the Indians he met as seeming “covetous and ignorant” is transcendent.
Also.. kindly mention the cold blooded atrocities committed by" the great " Vasco da Gama and his successors in Calicut while establishing their so called "Cordial relationships".
Christianity of That time was no different to ISIS ideology of today,it was about conquering other ppl and forcing them to accept it.
@@luxinvictus9018 invading other lands in the name of Jesus by European Christian countries,calling the natives of those places backward and calling there religions fake then trying to force them into Christianity or brainwashing their kids to hate their own native faiths even numerous rapes by pastors which is still rampant wasn't some fringe part of Christianity of that time rather it was the norm.
@@luxinvictus9018 wherever these Christian from Europe went they were brutal to the ppl there be it in india or USA or Canada or even in Europe where jews were seen as enemies of Christianity and often targeted and tortured unlike sati which was in reaction to the native locals of india to crimes carried out by Islamic outsiders.
@@rajkishorebehera7489 wow stop lying dude. Sati is a Hindu practice dating before even Muslim invasions occurred. It is mentioned in epics ! Dont tell me mahabharata was written by Muslims too ! Do you think this is whatsapp group with fellow Hindu nationalists where you can get away making bs up ?
@@codenamevisage No you stop lying
Do the letter to the king of Portugal by Pero Vaz de Caminha, on the discovery of Brazil.
Edit: btw today marks 521 years his letter was written
And also the accounts of Hans Staden with cannibal natives, please
Great work, thanks.
Thank you so much for these lovely videos blessings
Would love to see you do more videos on Portugal and their history in general.
It was hairry christians. The guys with the orange robes singing in the airports.
Wrong spellin' bruh! I'm so triggered.
Its Hairy Krishtians 😄
Lmao the king laughed at the gifts. What a roast
I absolutely love these vids. Ill scroll all day, but your vids hold me captive until the end every time!
Actually native Christians were located mostly in Cochin or Muzhiris , Trivandrum region at that time. More over king of calicut Samoorin had good relationship with Arabs.
Later Vasco de gama came and conquered much territory of Kerala. There was a strong enemity existed between the local Christians and the Portuguese
In which language did they communicate in? How does a group land on the shores of unknown people and just start talking?
Yeah lol same question
@@jatin2866 The people who represented Portugal and sailed the world were chosen precisely because they were highly intelligent, adaptable and cunning. Vasco da Gama likely was a charismatic man who probably learned very quickly, acquired interpreters (perhaps an Arab interpreter).
@@historyandculture562 possibly 👍
Generally there are people between two groups or other foreigners who have already been there. Arab is good suggestion given their presence there and accessibility to Europeans. It's never really a big issue though. If needed, within a couple of weeks you should know enough words to communicate very basically. Within a couple of months you should have a useable grasp on the language. This is the power of immersion and needing to communicate. But for sensitive things that require local knowledge, someone who speaks the language and knows what they're doing is obviously preferable. In this case it seems like they were well familiar with the culture and people beforehand. So likely through other foreigners who also taught them how things work.
Vasco da Gama sailed across Africa on his voyage to India. I'm sure the facts are documented somewhere, but I asume he had interpreters from east Africa/trader of the region that could speak the Indian language of the land alongside a more universal language, like Arabic
This man flamed the entire female population of India lmao😂😂😂
Maybe he was just jealous he didn't have any luck because it doesn't seem very Christian to talk about a women appearance
@@pinkyfinger9851 jealous?
@Rakshita Singh I'm sorry honey but is that straightup sarcasm?
@@maahishukla3331 obviously
India is very diverse tho. Keralites are dravidians and look quite different compared to North Indians or East/Western Indians. I'm Indian too and as pale as some of my caucasian friends 🤷🏻♀️
Really enjoy these little snippets of the past. Excellent listening
Syrian christians were called "nasrani's"(still in use)before vasco da gama arrived in kerala.
Can a Catholic be called Nasrani in Kerala.
@@dograkhalsa1098 yes syrian catholics
Bro I though I've seen everything in Voices of the Past XD then that title "I was like Whoa! What?" AWESOME BRO XD
To be fair the Gospel was brought to India before it reached Europe by Saint Thomas one of the twelve disciples. And unlike other disciples who at first recieved a hostile reception he was warmly welcomed and was allowed to establish a church. If through research is done the Church in India might have been the earliest Church in the world that survives as it did without much changes since there were no schisms as far as I know.
The Syrian and Coptic churches are also very old. Also the Ethiopian church. The Roman church was founded by Apostles as well. St. Peter, first pope.
The Orthodox Christian Church is original unchanged Christian Church of the time of Christ. The oldest Christian Church is the Orthodox Christian Patriarchate of Jerusalem established first by Christ then St James the brother of the Lord in 33 A. D.
St Thomas evangelized The areas of Western India, parts of Syria and Iraq in 52 A.D.
Lol, it's one of those petty myths people believe. St Thomas never came to India, it's a story you can only find in Kerala and TN and no where else. Even the Catholic church don't agree with the story, the official accepted version is that he went to Iran not India.
@@rbeck3200tb40 False, history lol. St Thomas never came to India instead he went to Iran. Ask any theologian or historian outside Kerala. It's a myth limited to parts of Kerala and TN.
@@samuelroot6045
"even the catholic church dont agree" ???
well so what ? The catholics know nothing about Christianity especially about Christian history. The cathoilcs are a heretical group in italy that was anathemized from Christianity in 1054 AD .The cathoilcs didnt even exist until 1054 AD and have nothing to do with evangelizing India in the 1st century .The Orthodox Christian Church and its saints evangelized this area of the world in the 1st century. This is historical fact.
Magellan's trip started the whole ball rolling . Still today we are facing it .
Indian : Welcome
Vasco de Gama : Free Real Estate
Indian girls aren't ugly ;)
He was a European in mediaeval ages. Anyone non whote was ugly to them
What does he mean by "our language"? My best guess is that it could not be Portuguese but surely some form of Italian or the so-called "West Mediterranean lingua franca" a pidgin mix of Italian, Catalan, Spanish and indeed Portuguese, which was used by sailors and merchants in that era. I can imagine that they had some contact with Italy (Venice) if anything. Alternatively it could be some form of Latin?
@@tpower1912 - Soon after these events Venice, the Ottomans and the Mamluks formed a coalition to drive the Portuguese off the Indian region, although Portugal won (battle of Diu, 1509). So it seems to me that at that time Venice was still in good terms with the Ottomans and their Mamluk vassals (while Genoa was not and that's why they were first strangled in th Eastern trade and went westwards in cooperation with Portugal and the Spanish Crown.
The worsening of Venetian-Ottoman relationships would only come later probably. Lepanto is many decades after these events:
· VdG reached India in 1499
· Battle of Diu in 1509
· Battle of Lepanto in 1571 (Ottoman-Venetian War 15070-73)
I'm not any expert in this period but what we can read in Wikipedia, for example, suggests that the Venetians were trying to manage the Ottomans by payments of tribute, etc. in this era.
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman%E2%80%93Venetian_War_(1570%E2%80%931573)
Only since 1568 the Ottomans began focusing on Cyprus and the other Venetian colonies in the Eastern Mediterranean, arguably incited by a Sephardite Jew who was angry at the Christians.
@@tpower1912 - Persian would not be know by the Portuguese, although they surely had people who spoke good Arabic, as they had been trying to conquer Morocco. But "our language" must necessarily refer to some form of Latin/Romance. National Romances were already quite formed by those days but they were just then beginning to be recognized as such distinctive languages and not just as "sermo vulgaris" (popular speech). It may have felt a similar situation to modern Arabic speakers, whose dialects differ wildly but tend to consider each other speakers of the same language nevertheless.
@@tpower1912 - This was no Venezian trader but Portuguese explorer. I'm pretty sure someone like Vasco da Gama would only speak Romance, some Latin, some Arabic maybe but not Persian, which had very limited currency in the Mediterranean, let alone Atlantic Europe. Also he would not call it "our language".
I'm as intrigued as you are but I can only conclude that by "our language" he means some variant of Latin/Romance, which one exactly? That's what I'd like clarified. My best guess is that it was the Mediterranean Lingua Franca, which as I read now was also used in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Barbary Coast. >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca
@@LuisAldamiz Most likely answer is he's probably lying. No one spoke Latin in India back then.
@@GrigRP - Why would he lie? I make much better sense of the Mediterranean Lingua Franca, which as a Romance pidgin (Latin only in a very loose sense), which was initially used in the Eastern Mediterranean, largely in the context of the Crusades (crusaders who were at times semi-allied to the Mongols) and later also in the Western Mediterranean under the leadership of the Italian merchant republics, one of which, Venice was in good terms with the Ottomans and Mamluks, being the answer. I can't say this is the definitive answer but seems the most plausible one.
Fascinating, thankyou for this video.
5:06 "A small image which they said represented our lady" Video shows statue of Ganesha
Why would these Portuguese declare that they were sent by a rich King from a rich country,"much richer than any country in these parts"- then be surprised that you can't establish cordial relationship with these people.
it was like saying, hey we dont want your riches, we are very rich, and then colonize the land.
They were trying to make themselves important so they were taken seriously by the king and recogised. But it was an exploration voyage so they didn't bring gold that might get lost. They would've been totally ignored if they didn't because why would he care about some far off land if it were of no consequence? The point was to establish relations with a Christian king, at threat of beheading by his own king. There was no Christian king so he pretended there was one and tried to establish relations but he needed gold to be taken seriously. He was very sad/desperate because of the danger to his life lol.
Why would you want to trade with a poor country? India had always been rich in its spices. Portugal had the goal of controlling this trade, it had to present itself as a reputable partner.
You're a mighty Raj, a odd looking man that smells awful for not bathing in months of voyage meets you in an audience and says "I come from a poor country, let's trade your spices", you're gonna hear him?
Well there is a history of Long established Christian communities in Kerala, India even before the acceptance of christianity in Rome.
I am from calicut. There is a king named "Samudhiry" from hindu. His Navey captian Called as "Kunchali Marakkar". It is big and famous force in the arabin sea. When Gama footed Kappad near Calicut in 1498 May 27 with 170 Companiyens.
I wish his boat had synced , really panooti 😂😂
"Well I guess they weren't impressed. You, you and you are coming with us so we can get a better idea of what to do when we return."
Good planning
In Ancient india, perl, Ruby, Gold, Silver were traded in market for buying vegetables and cloth products.
This are not ancient times, just few hundred years old.
Christianity arrived in India at a very early time, brought to India by the Apostle Thomas who is believed to have preached the gospel and founded the first churches in Kerala,
Very well done.
Actually we were Christians long before Portuguese arrived in Kerala, India.
At that time, we Christians are Actually against all foreign rules and believes in our country.
Our forefathers are converted to Christians by st Thomas himself.( St Thomas came here in 52AD, also he was killed in Thamilnadu, later his remains are shifted)
There are old texts of Aramaic in scrolls and walls , well preserved here.
Best channels on CZcams
Thanks for the vid, btw. Nigel Cliff has a great book that covers Vasco's voyages.
It's interesting how he didn't discover the Nestorian Christians I spite of being so close.
They did.At the first arrival itself,Gama was presented with the Royal scepter of the last Christian king,by the Nestorians. (the kingdom he ruled over was absorbed into a larger kingdom,a few years earlier owing to having no male heir.).So,while he was a little late to find a Christian kingdom as it had been dissolved some years prior,he did find out the Nestorians pretty soon.And Gama arrived in Calicut,not Calcutta as the narrator states,(These are 2 diametrically opposite places on the Indian map)
Syriac Christians already had a burgeoning community in Kerala that at least goes back to 400 AD in the archeological record, although tradition puts it to Saint Thomas in the first century. It's possible he encountered them and not Hindus.
but every aspect of "christians" and "church" that they describe is identical of today hindus, for example the Tilaka (the dirt in the forehead and arms) and the sikha (the tuff of hair) and deities with a lot of arms (problably they adored Lakshmi) and so on, for me it's clear that it was hindus and not christians.
@@nitairiello1534 they mistaken hindus for Christians.. They thought there are only two religion in whole world islam and Christianity
@@kanekirana9530 They must have known Judaism.
@@kanekirana9530 And then they found out that in India, there are more Gods than people 😝. I joke my friend, I could not help myself.
@@ariyoiansky291 not really
He absolutely just lied and said they were Christians because he didn't want his head cut off by the Portuguese king. He totally knew that was not a church but a heathen temple, he just didn't want to record that.
Church and temples are place of worship so both are same.
Seems like he just assumed they were Christians
Either they believed so strongly in the legend of Prester John that they saw what they wanted to see, or the captain pretended like he did in order to avoid having his head cut off.
Amazing! Simply amazing!
The truth is that before the advent of modern technologies and firearms, there was nothing Europeans could have offered to Indians. India had everything one needs and some more to export. Before industrial revolution Indian trade with the world was pretty much one way .
@Pojka Southern Hemisphere is full of most metal . The world relied on Afghanistan for copper production because of its tin mines, since antiquity. Fur was never in demand in hot country and India and south Asia leads the world in leather production even to this day. And Arabic horses from middle east had been used for wars and riding in Europe also from the times of antiquity since European horses were too large and fat and were only good for ploughing the fields. As far as textile is concerned , subcontinent of India has been the biggest exporter of of cotton and linen since civilisation began. There are ancient Roman records where Roman officials were worried about Roman women taste for Indian linen. It was so bad that they were concerned for Rome running out of gold reserve because so much of it was shipped to India in exchange for textile. So I guess you got a point there for precious metals. Even to this day one quarter of all the gold in the world is owned by Indian housewives.
As a indian I don't know whether to laugh or be sad watching hindu temples as church's
"and then we traded with them, the prices seemed off, they kept saying it was normal to charge over the MRP."
"Oh hey... nice trinkets. Not thrilling... but nice. Put them over there with the rest of those trinkets. Yrs, yes... far away land. What else is on my agenda today? What's for lunch?"
Alexander the Great: Am I a joke to you?
0:05 "by sea"
Vasco da gama
Went into a drama
Without a pyjama
With a banana
Vasco De Gama wanted to sail West and find a llama
Instead he went east and found indians, bungalows and pyjamas
Your poem needs punctuation. Try adding a comma.
This documentation was hilarious but so much innocent.
Excellent
How many of you know that when Vasco came for second time he besieged the calicut for 2 weeks and even captured an unarmed pilgrimage ship returning from Mecca with women and children. When the local king sent an messenger of peace, he cut the ears of the messenger and his dog and stitched the dog ears to the messenger and bombarded the pilgrimage ship killing more than 300. Vasco was a devil but for westerners he is a pioneer who discovered sea route to India i.e. wealth
Funny how you chose to ignore the fact that it was a response to a massacre of dozens of Portuguese by local Muslims, aided by the king's soldiers, despite the treaties made between him and the Portuguese.
Not to say that the Portuguese were angels, but their actions were driven primarily by the desire to outcompete the Muslim world, as Christendom at the time was threatened by the powerful Ottoman Empire, which was also blocking Christian trade with the Far East. That was the reason for great discoveries in the first place.
On a general note, every nation has heroes that would be considered villains by another nation, especially if the two waged wars against each other. Nothing special here.
@@Diofill37 theres a huge difference. Muslim guilds with help of local soldiers killed portuguese soldiers. But Vasco burned a whole ship of piligrims which includes women, children and the old. Complete innocents
For everyone positing they might have actually met Christians, my mans over here witnessed Tilaka and thought it was communion... so...
"Excuse me, just one picture"
There was a story in Europe that king called prestor John who is a priest and king of Indian Christian empire. But there is no record for this. Only Christian king ruler is villaravattom kings in udaymperoor near Cochin. When Vasco da Gama came here dynasty ended and representative of dynasty submitted royal emblom to Gama as gifts to Portugal king.