Pushing a roundabout BEYOND its limits - In Cities Skylines
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- ➤ "Just one more lane bro. I can fix traffic!" Let's break the roundabout!
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➤ Map: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
➤Assets Used:
Eight Lane Oneway Road:
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Vanilla+ Roads:
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BIG Urban Roads:
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➤Mods Used:
Fine Road Tool/Anarchy steamcommunity.com/sharedfile... steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Node Controller: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Intersection Marking Tool: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Traffic Manager: President Edition
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➤Mods Collection: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
0:00 Intro
1:26 Roundabout Evolution
3:50 Turbo Roundabout
6:29 Three Lane Turbo
8:50 Four Lane
11:44 Five Lane
14:44 Traffic Light Roundabout
22:17 Seven Lane
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Reality: Engineers use roundabouts because they're a fairly safe junction
Yumbl: Drive in to the 5 lane roundabout at full speed without stopping, it'll be fine.
Roundabouts are also pretty good for traffic as long as both roads have similar traffic and enough people are turning. If there's lots of through traffic then they're not efficient in terms of how big they need to be.
19:50 and that folks is why in the UK they eventually upgrade previously working roundabouts on reasonably quite roads to become traffic circles with traffic lights on now busier roads 😀
Oh yes. The initial designs are quite plausible. Even 4+ lanes with lights! Then we leave reality entirely 😅
And then we also have traffic circles on motorway junctions when a stack interchange would be better, because apparently cheaper is better!
@@ThatRandomBeast Yeah, stack interchanges are much better system interchanges than three-level roundabout interchanges.
the really good thing is it's safer because you're avoiding left turns!
*Tea sipping intensifies*
For the lighted roundabout, you can actually go one further: The lights are forbidding the right-hand slip since the game thinks it's the same movement as the general right-hand turn onto the main roundabout. But, if you add a separated slip lane as an actual separated road on a different node, it can be controlled independently and made to always flow. Also, you can fork the approach roads to improve your entry/exit angles.
A dedicated slip lane only helps that particular traffic though, it has no effect on any of the other traffic flow of the intersection.
But yes, it can help if you have extra heavy flow on right-turn traffic. You could even do it for just one side of the roundabout where it's needed.
I do agree on forking (splitting) the junctions, while increasing the junction sizes like he did does make for smoother turns and better flow it also moves the stop line back, which makes it take longer for traffic to enter. It can make managing traffic and lights a bit funky, since you're essentially going from 4 to 8 (12) junctions, but it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Both your suggestions do increase the size of the roundabout and size constraint is often the reason a roundabout is used over a different interchange.
In real life an 80 meter roundabout is quite normal. In my town in the Netherlands we have a roundabout of 90 meters, and one of 85 meters. A city further away has a 200 meter roundabout, or actually, since it has traffic lights it would be considered a traffic circle.
Within the realm of normal, yes, but it has to be larger than the average roundabout.
I agree, in the UK I wouldn't say this is unusual. Where I live in stockport, there are two roundabouts that are about 150m in diameter within a mile of each other. I can think of one at old trafford too thats way over 100m and about 5 lanes wide at one point.
I think YUMBLE's point was that in CS, the 80m roundabout is a pretty standard to use anywhere (mostly because closeness of nodes causes problems), but in reality it isn't. I'm sure your 80+ meter roundabouts are on larger, high density roads, yes? You wouldn't find something like that in a quite neighborhood, right?
Had to check my home city, most roundabouts are about 50 m, give or take 10 m (doing a quick look up in Google maps isn't that accurate). Some are smaller, and a few are 100 m or larger.
In São Paulo has a 225m 4 lane roundabout
-23.514295766880483, -46.62945962736576
it's nice to see that yumble is actually having fun with his new camera😅
Its a few years old. I’ve been streaming for a long time :)
@@YUMBL Welp...🤐
But it's still new for us!
he looks like a psycopath tho
but a nice one 🥲
The fact that yumble managed to take such a medium traffic setup and make it into a traffic black hole is insane to me.
He is proving us every time that he is one of THE greatest traffic solvers of all times in the Cities: SkyLines community!
This channel is changing my perception of roundabouts. Traffic lights are not that bad after all
These types of roundabouts aren’t that crazy. The roundabouts at 55.868502,-4.367730 formed part of my driving test.
You sank my battleship!
@@paulchilders9969 what was your battleship doing in a roundabout
Speaking about realism, you should see the Arc de Triomphe roundabout. That is insane!
I found that allowing traffic to enter blocked junctions, especially for smaller roundabouts, really helps the traffic flow. I believe it is because of the way the game dictates what a junction is and when it is considered blocked. In the game when it is not allowed, each vehicle has to wait until the junction is completely empty before it will enter, but when it is allowed, each vehicle just waits for adequate space for it to enter. It would work better if the yield worked more like a yield than a full on stop sign though. If there is any vehicle in between 2 nodes, that whole section can be considered occupied so the entering traffic stops.
Hi Yumble, do you ever seen the “Rond-point de l’Étoile” in Paris. This is a gigantic roundabout around the Arc de Triomphe. There are no lanes and you have “normally” to give wait to the incoming traffic.
This would be something amazing to try to represent in Cities Skylines. Specially if Yumble try to do it.
Yeah, that's one of the most infamous roundabouts in the world. My sister's lived in France for 25 years outside of Paris and she didn't dare try that thing until she had lived there for more than five. The Rond-point de l’Étoile is basically France's full contact sport.
You could do it with the blank roads collection in Cities, too!
If you mesure it by size, there's between 10 and 12 lanes on there, plus there's 12 street coming in the roundabout (and they are not small streets, they are typically 2+2 and can go up to 4+4 )
@@Mythriak_ Tried it and it worked pretty well as long as u have a massive roundabout (at least 120 - 150m with precision engineering) with at least 6 lanes and u use the lane connector to make sure that they can exit from more than 2 lanes (I did it with approximately 4). This only makes sense with more than 6 exits though.
@@Tyranastrasza A french colleague took we there in the car. His remark: just drive forward, except there is a taxi comming from the left. Then yield to the taxi.
Yay! Cities Skylines can’t cope with lanes that are multi-directional so you need the seven lanes. In real life you would be fine with four which were multipurpose. It was nice to see the traffic circle implemented. I’ve used it within my cities recently and as you discovered it can cope with a lot.
Ps lovely to see you messing about before you got going 🤣
On the traffic circles, if you allowed the arm clockwise from the arm currently going to enter the circle and proceed to the first traffic light that would increase speed and capacity by some.
Also, if you made two 3 way roundabouts, each handling two directions with one additional road connecting them that'd also be a way to get additional capacity.
I would love to see your take on the magic roundabout. You make such beautiful intersections with intersection marking tool and have a mastery of node controller and Lane connectors. It would be fascinating to see what you could make try to do it.
The problem with all the roundabouts is that theres never an option to go back on yourself or go around it again in case you're in the wrong lane.
Thankfully, though. The AI doesn't make "mistakes" so a u-turn isn't really necessary
Only turbo ones not all ones
There is a huge traffic circle type situation in Dubai. It's called the Trade Centre Roundabout. I believe 8 points of entry. Huge traffic circle. 4 lanes. You can have a fun time looking at that situation if you like. Works ok, for the traffic it gets hurt with.
You can further optimize it by allowing right turn all the time. This is acceptable since U-turn is not allowed in your roundabout.
You could add an additional lane in the very inside where it goes closest to the center island for u-turns and because it's the inner most lane vs. the outer most for right turn traffic, they could still go as well.
Can't wait for Biffa to weigh in... 😈😆
I really think you've found your niche, Yumbl. Your intersections and roundabouts are a marvel of clever design, and a few of them have quietly been introduced into Storm City. They are indeed traffic black holes, and while Storm City doesn't have many cars (I'm trying HARD to move away from them since the book series' settings had none) it has a ton of local cargo trucks and needs all the help it can get.
One of the monster roundabouts at the end WILL be making an appearance in SC, too. This sort of engineering insanity is *exactly* in character for the "builders" and it does indeed eat enough traffic to handle the central intersection of the city.
I think you would need to color-code those roads in the 8-lane round about so people dont get lost in it. Also indicate where does it lead to and add normal round abouts further in each direction so people can actually go back the same way they came from.
Great info, YUMBL! Love how the very last roundabout design fixes traffic UNBELIEVABLY WELL in that map you're using! Always love your videos! I don't particularly like roundabouts, but I always love your videos! I'm actually subscribed to your channel, so keep making Cities: Skylines videos like these!
CPP really needs a refresher course from you on round-abouts lol and great seeing your face (Applause) Another great vid
Hey Yumbl, after a long break, I've returned to your channel and enjoyed re-watching a lot of videos.
What you've done at 20:15 with the lights-controlled roundabout, made me think of a real-life scenario, and maybe you wanted to check it out with safety in mind. At least, past the realm of CS1, with its non-lethal car-pedestrian accidents at every crosswalk
- Coordinates: 51°22'01.7"N 6°10'00.4"E
Edit: Imagine making the 8/7-lane roundabout (24:40) but you don't know that IMT exists. 💀
Every time you said "leaving the realm of reality" I just had to laugh, as those 'unreal' roundabouts absolutely exist in Tijuana and I drive them regularly. Basically they are a complete free-for-all at all times, although there are some that are traffic signal controlled also.. Some are 3 lanes, some are 4 or even 5, but in reality people just go wherever the hell they want to.
I bet there are a lot of collision repair centres nearby?
@@renakunisaki Surprisingly few accidents here. Since everyone drives crazy all the time everyone is expecting the other guy to do crazy stuff and pays attention much better than I typically see in the US.
I really appreciate all these compact intersection designs (these roundabouts, traffic light setups, vanilla overpass, the junctions on your last video) because you can upgrade to them as necessary with minimal rebuilding. Interchanges are nice but you generally want to build them in an empty spot, this stuff is highly practical because you can upgrade your busiest intersections without leveling a few blocks. And as a result this has allowed me at least to build with more freedom and not stressing over future traffic knowing I can handle whatever comes.
Specifically for roundabouts I like the look but have avoided them so far because they have been disappointing in terms of traffic flow compared to lights, but with these upgrade options in mind I may have judged them too harshly!
I applied these lights to my busy roundabout and it's now, as you say, "eating traffic." I wonder what Biffa will make of this.
In one of his city fixes he took one look at the 5 lane, and immediately deleted it lol
You should allow the intersection clockwise into the roundabout to wait in the roundabout for the cycle. They advance a bit to start and allow free flowing right turns during the previous cycle without creating any conflicts (except for rare U turn events, which I'm not sure this configuration allows).
I saw this too, since you can't u-turn there's an entire quarter of the roundabout unused on every cycle.
I usually make a 1 second signal stage between each of the main stages to give the next direction a head start to make it around the first quarter of the roundabout. You get the same capacity boost that danbert87 describes, and you avoid having traffic stop twice.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Didn't you say something about Toronto's red clearance times that can be shorter without reducing safety?
@@5blocksmc979 Yes. In this case the 1 second signal phase represents the "entry time" of the next movement
My first thought about the last round-about was that it could be 'juced' still more by just adding a node-seperated right turn only lane for every roading entering, so right turns never have to stop or even technically use the round-about.
This roundabout has saved my new city. Went from 70% traffic flow to 84%. Thanks much!
Awesome :)
Really fascinating and breath-taking, once again ...
12:11 These two lanes (the one with the connectors) are actually doing the same thing. And with four lanes (later more) going into the roundabout you go further down that path of multiple lanes with a similar/equal* function.
*) Within the area of the roundabout experiment I'd say equal. But looking at the test map setup of 1:39 it might be smart to be either in the right or the left lane for the highway interchanges- and therefore to [12:11 again] travel the red or the blue lane connector. This is why the lanes are only similar but not equal - and this is actually part of why it is working. In reality there would be other intersections closer to the roundabout, and blue lane would attract people who turn left at the following junction, red lane those who turn right there ...
I've had skylines for about 6-7 years and never have I wanted to play it more than when I'm watching your channel.
The end was so satisfying! i love seeing the traffic flow idk if that's just me 😅
Take a look at the Roundabout "Siegessäule" in Berlin "Straße des 17. Juni" it has dedicated right turn and the uncoming traffic from the roundabout beforehand junction is never supposed to merge with the right turn but actually has its own turning lane,
but then you dont want to look at Paris or Rome with their Triumph Arches Roundabouts :D
22:20 in the seven lane
it still can be optimized.
when the car move,
it only go to the left, straight & right. never go back (u turn)
thus, the left lane of it, can do the right turn without disturbing the flow.
The right lane can’t be controlled separately from the others.
In Manta Ecuador there is a 4 lane round about but there are no lane markings or signs, its total chaos but it seems to work there. I remember being on a bus and taking a few laps around till the driver was able to escape. Good times. Great video man, keep it up.
That roundabout gives me nightmares. Five lane roundabouts are unsafe, meanwhile the Eiffel Tower is a traffic pain in the ass
1:19 Now that's what I'm talking about.
I wonder what Clark Griswold would think about this roundabout.
Traffic light roundabouts are very common in Spain and they work good. They are just much bigger radius and usually 5-6 lanes
I feel like I'm on the M25.
Though the limit on roundabouts is often 40mph, not that you can always get that speed with the cars in front, but if it's clear you can head on through.
Great video!! With the traffic roundabout, you can block the left turns and do only a 2 cycle light to increase the flow (north and south allowing the front and right traffic, and west and east allowing the front a right traffic)
You can try, but the lefts overwhelm the roundabout. It would need to be huge
I click on these videos faster than Yumbl forgets about pipes and powerlines!
omg. that opening cut of the roundabouts is so beautiful
One of your best videos, I enjoyed watching it.
If you've ever seen some intersections in foreign countries its really not unrealistic for this to be tried somewhere. Great video!
Nice to put a face with the voice. You Biffa and imperatur are my faves.
I actually like the "some people are not obeying the rules at times".. I know it can be frustrating when trying to get traffic just right, but I believe it adds to the realism, as people often don't obey the rules at times on the road.
My favorite use of roundabouts is for grade-separated highway junctions. Let the highways cross each other at different elevations, with uninterrupted straight through traffic, and then between them (in the vertical sense) place a roundabout for turning left/right, with entry/exit ramps.
I love the light controlled intersection pretending to be a roundabout
I said it’s a traffic circle. No pretending.
One thing you can do to improve the flow is adding short "overlapping" phases.
So basically, the next phase can enter the roundabout just before the current one gets a red light.
Example of green light phases:
1. North 10 seconds
2. East 10 sec
3. South 10 sec
4. West 10 sec
Instead:
1. North 8 sec
2. N+E 2 sec
3. East 8 sec
4. E+S 2 sec
5. South 8 sec
6. S+W 2 sec
7. West 8 sec
8. W+N 2 sec
This makes the entire cycle take the same amount of time but each phase gets 2 extra seconds.
It may take some fiddling to get the timing just right, but it allows the vehicles of the next phase to start entering the part of the roundabout that is clear of traffic anyway.
Maybe there is a more elegant way of doing this, i don't know, but this is also how most traffic lights work in the Netherlands, the lights turn green before the other direction's turn red to compensate for the time it takes to enter the junction.
YUMBL, you should look at a similar solution in the city of Canberra, Australia (known to Australians everywhere as being full of roundabouts, like that’s a bad thing, and winner of international roundabout of the year in 2020). The roundabout at the intersection of Gubdaroo Drive and the Barton Highway is similar to the one here, but traffic turning right (left for you) actually stops on the roundabout - this allows traffic from opposing entrances to enter at the same time, where most of the traffic is through traffic.
this is mind blowing! i am glad to have watched this
U sir are a C:S traffic god !😁 Well done on the maximum efficiency of a roundabout/traffic circle. The aesthetics look amazing!
imo the biggest benefit of a marked traffic circle is that it shows you where to go and you don't leave your lane, removing the risk of looking over your shoulder while going through a circle to see if it's safe to merge into a different lane
BRO, i didn't regret subscribing you for a second, great teacher, funny men
The traffic light pattern is very similar to what Wisconsin DOT puts on standard diamond interchanges between roads and highways.
In NZ we have lots of light-controlled roundabouts that work almost like the final one, but with fewer lanes.
I think it's a result of squeezing capacity out of our many existing roundabouts as they grew 10x busier
26:28 When all our cars become self driven and sufficient in terms of safety without human intervention, these are the types of intersections I would expect to see lol
Oh this video is gonna be a treat😂😂
With that volume I would usually do a British roundabout interchange on the junction. No lights. The reason I opt for that setup is because it's scalable in the long run. The busier road gets a straight-through at ground level (the roundabout is above ground). When the intersecting road gets busy enough I put that into a tunnel straight-through. And then when the volume starts to overwhelm that setup, I put in slip lanes for left turns (left side driving). So at the very end, the roundabout becomes a right-turn only mechanism. Usually when the junction reaches this state, the traffic can sort itself out no matter what is thrown at it.
My experience with bypass roundabouts has not been so good in CS: czcams.com/video/3dDHJZ1AWVY/video.html
@@YUMBL The really busy interchanges usually evolve into what you have at the 7 minute mark. At which point, it's as good as it gets. The difference between my setup and what you have in your video, is I prefer the roundabout to be elevated. So when I need to scale up, by making the intersecting highway straight-through, I don't have to fiddle with the roundabout.
This is great! I would love to see how you built the last roundabout with the filled lanes. Or even better if you can create this an asset in the Steam workshop.
This is actually pretty good.
Now I want to see the most overkill intersection for a city (not a roundabout) but seems like it wouldn't work but works way too much
In the last iteration, there are 8 lanes, by you are using 7. The inner lane has the buffer, if you shift all the outer lanes over one, then it frees up the outside line to be used exclusively for turning right. It essentially produces a bypass, so even with a traffic light, the outside lane would never have to wait.
The traffic light is all or nothing. The right lane can’t be controlled independently.
Please make more content like this, the cities skylines fandom is so big!
Coming from Holland and seeying what this man did with his last roundabout...
Brilliant, just absolutely... brilliant 👌
There's a roundabout near me which is about the same radius as this one (it's not perfectly circular, but it's comparable in size). It could theoretically be a T-junction of an arterial (one which desparately wants to be a highway) from which another arterial emerges, but it also joins to four collector roads of varying sizes. It has three lanes, traffic lights at some (but not all) of the junctions, and is absolutely horrible.
Have you considered a magic roundabout like the ones in Swindon and Hemel Hempstead in England?
Essentially, your roundabout has traffic going in both directions around it, and you have roundabouts at each of the entrances with three exits - two for going round the main roundabout in each direction, and one for the actual road that connects to it.
In real life you get an insane amount of traffic flow with zero delay, though it is very scary to drive round if you are not used to it.
You should really upload these to the workshop. Your detail is insane and would be appreciated :) although you give such great detail sometimes they can be replicated nearly the same 😊
How about using asymmetrical roads to create a magic roundabout? It'll reduce a bit footprint of left turn traffic.
I think with traffic lights it's pretty safe and doable.
That round-a-bout is a work of art
Beyond 3 lanes a roundabout is no longer really a suitable intersection. You can remove the right turn (on RHD roads) to its own lane to keep 3 lanes on the actual roundabout itself. But beyond that the Roundabout needs to be turned back to traffic lights with just crazy amounts of lanes. Or start to grade separate.
Damn that's a crazy roundabout 🤣
nice hat right on brand ! well done dude keep up the great work
The rediculous round about in the end of the video is actually pretty close to what we have here in the Netherlands since a few years. Take a second to get used to, but actually quite nice.
this is just awesome my friend
In real life, what benefit would this seven lane circle have besides safety? Would it allow a higher volume of traffic through vs. a regular intersection?
When you realise that myself Eight Line Oneway rode appears here
Cool, thanks👍
Near Baltimore, MD there's a cool yet terrible roundabout in Towson. It's like a horrible oval. I love it.
I know towson! I’m just down the road in NOVA
The 6 (5) lane roundabout with traffic light is sooo satisfying to see for my OCD 🥰
Holy moly, this one is insane, Biffa will love it XD
Reminds me a bit about the Verkeersplein Kooimeer infront of Alkmaar in the Netherlands. only with more lanes and higher traffic from some directions.
This video should be titled "what if the city of LA designed a roundabout?" Though, the final product looks very satsifying. I'm wondering if the devs thought it'd be possible when they first released CSL.
I could watch that thing eat traffic all day! Guess I know what I'll be doing this evening...
I absolutely adore this! I wonder if there is some way to allow the right-turners to go at the same time that the road just clockwise of it is going. That's a pretty big dead space, and even the people turning left won't interfere. Gotta get this set up on my system and see if it's possible! Such cool ideas!
It would work but they run the light at this segment size
@@YUMBL : Aha, great to know! Thanks!
This guy is a wizard with traffic! 😜
Arizona is covered in roundabouts. The Arizona DOT even produces a guide for people on how to use roundabouts. I live in a small town and within 2 miles of my house there are 5 roundabouts.
Ridiculousville Roundabout would be the perfect name if you were going to put this in the workshop (hint, hint, hint) !!!
Super cool video!
That round-a-bout is both beautiful and positively terrifying.
With the traffic lights you can speed it up slightly by allowing traffic to enter the roundabout one step earlier, and having them wait on the traffic circle. Right now a quarter of the roundabout is empty at all times.
I wish it worked well. They frequently run the light once in the roundabout, slowing entering traffic.
7:52 this is the moment you start making turbo roundabouts.
What makes a roundabout turbo is the shifting lanes. You never have to weave and the inner circle never has to yield to an outer circle. I don't think real real multi-lane roundabouts allow for that, yet your 2-lane straight priority roundabout does.
No, the two lane one is a real turbo as well. You just dont see the lanes shift as obviously without markings.
Shifting lanes is a spiralled lane marking, not a turbo
Having lanes properly shift is how you should design multi-lane roundabouts in reality
This video earned you a sub. Great content!
The Seven lanes roundabout is amazing 😍
Yumbl has perfected the Art of Turning Right to go Left
You truly are amazing thank you for information
I think Yumbl needs to take a look at the magic roundabout in Swindon. He'd have fun trying to make that in Cities Skylines
@YUMBLtv I 'm curious if you could increase capacity yet more (24:49). For example, when the a road is green for entering the roundabout (at 'south node' for example), the entering lanes in the next road anti-clockwise ('west node') could be moving up to the 'south node' and waiting, since there are no u-turns allowed there is no risk of cars getting in the way within the 'south-west segment' of the circle.
Maybe I'm missing something, idk
BUT yes. fabulous exploration of roundabouts/traffic circles. Very satisfying to watch!
I tried. They often run the roundabout light which messes it up
They have a similar traffic light controlled roundabout in Graz, Austria (47°01'58"N 15°24'42"E) but instead of 5 lanes it has 4 and it has painted lines instead of raised curbs.
I really like the new style of the intro!
The cities skylines turbo one is like every roundabout in the UK haha.
Also, I see a ton of roundabouts with traffic lights at each intersection so you have to stop while on the roundabout. I don't know if you've ever tried those in CS, but it oculd be interesting
If that thing start to spin at one point I would get hypnotized!
This traffic light roundabout has given me horror flashbacks to a nasty piece of modern engineering next to London Heathrow airport (M4 junction 4). It’s a bad roundabout in practice due to a large number of drivers entering in the wrong lane (the signage and lane markings are poor and contradicting to make matters worse).
The designers of yesteryear didn’t have hindsight for things like this sadly.
Junction 4 + Cherry Lane Roundabout just to the north has got to be one of the most insane road junctions ever made. The bypassed roundabout is actually fully under motorway regulations too since the M4 spurs to the south and a little bit north to the Cherry Lane Roundabout (which is a hamburger/throughabout because of the straight connector from the M4 to the 408). There is also the interesting scenario that traffic can actually enter the straight through section which leads to the motorway regulations but with no legal escape (since the road through the roundabout bans all turns), which is why there are signs warning of the motorway 75 yards ahead. Cherry Lane Roundabout used to be a 'hot cross bun' which is literally a roundabout with a crossroads within it, as can be seen if you go back in time on google street view.