How Danny Phantom Wasted Our Time
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2022
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Insert Sam Hot Take Here.
As a kid, I loved it. I could relate to Sam with the whole emotion, no emotion or love thing. I got that. I was also in boarding school so I missed a lot of episodes, so it was when I got back that I continued so it wasn't sickening. I have good memories about the shipping forever.
I can't believe you praised miraculous... It was so sickening as a kid.
Acting like him made me a bully magnet
She was MID bro, never let the homie hit, EVEN THO he saved her mofo ass like a bajillion times. That's why he & Tucker boys 4 lyfe, even Tucker knew Danny deserved some play LMAO
Starfire makes a better love interest when compared to "basic not like other girls preachy activist stereotype" there
Honestly, Sam from a writing perspective is TERRIBLE. I am all about the activist non-conformist who does mistakes from time to time but my main issue with Sam is that she almost always never gets repercussions for her mistakes the same way Danny did. If she had SOME level of development as a character, I would root for her more. Otherwise, like you mentioned, incredibly passive and unchanging. The only episode she did get a lesson is that one with Freakshow appeared for the first time, and that's it. Review all the past episodes and you can see Sam is Butch's "can never be wrong" girl. If you know what happened in the writing room when Butch fired Steve Marmel for writing Valerie and Danny to begin with, you would simmer in anger or disgust.
Its funny how most shows go downhill when the creator leaves. 'Danny Phantom' went downhill when the creator tried getting involved more.
those were the signs of the foreshadowing of Butch Hartman's reputation going to shit and we didn't even notice.
I’m honestly glad it got cancelled on its 3rd season. It could have turned out to be like the fairly oddparents if it continued.
Miraculous ladybug be like:
@@okjeffy6581Fairly odd parents had a stable foundation, Danny phantom is an action cartoon wich we're abbundant but flexible in a rigid industry with people asking for it!
@@wiwitutsu2175interesting because it's creator is touted to be the next butch hartman!
I am so sick of writers thinking that if couples get together, then that's the end of the series. The trick to make this work is to have the couples go on and mature, working together as a team on adventures or later have a future series that shows us how their lives turned out.
It's not that hard.
Same here. It is very annoying that writers think this.
That's what has me enjoy Lumity and Rubphire- Their relationships either are developed as the show goes on, or the start of their relationship began pre-show and they're still developing.
Update. Raeda is also a good example of "started before the show, will they fully rekindle?" dynamic.
Lately I'm seeing shows are actually going for making a couple first BEFORE the finale, which it's a saving grace.
Yeah this happens to other series like Regular Show and Legend of Korra with Mako not choosing who to be with Korra or Asami.
Percy jackson does this well
I remember even as a kid I never cared for Danny x Sam. I was more invested in Valerie and Danny’s relationship: how she loved Danny’s human self but was unknowingly arch enemies with his ghost self. It was a good contrast to his first crush on Paulina who loved Danny Phantom but didn’t give Danny Fenton the time of day
I ship DannyxEmber.
I ALWAYS shipped Danny and Valerie and it sucks that she was reduced to another disposable black love interest.
Thank you!! Ofc Danny was gonna end up with Sam but him and Valerie would've been MUCH better!
If you love the "love their human self but unknowingly is their arch enemy" trope and want to see it actually explored you need to watch American Dragon Jake Long.
@@mellyq92 That show did a brilliant job with that trope 👏👏
Having the love interest break up with the hero because she doesn't want to endanger him with her hero life is a level of subversive writing I did not expect.
And it just made her seem like more of a perfect love interest as a result from how admirably selfless it was! 🥺
Valerie is such a great character.
So good that Butch Hartman wrote her out of the series because he couldn't handle her girlbossing.
@@Sanakudou ¿and what does sam do while her best friend has heartbreak? She takes the stupid ass ring, has the audacity to SMILE, and walk away while calling him clueless, instead of , i don't know, try to be a good friend and confort him.
ikrr
And there is some delicious irony due to the fact she is breaking up with him to protect him...from _himself_
One thing I really appreciate about the show is Danny and Jazz's relationship. Superheroes rarely -- if ever -- have siblings, so Jazz's mere existence is noteworthy, but what's more, she finds out Danny is a superhero...and doesn't confront him about it. She supports him behind his back. She covers for him and runs interference all without him knowing.
And eventually, he finds out she knows after some time travel shenanigans. They had a great dynamic that's hardly ever explored.
It was nice, her biggest flaw was being overbearing when it came to wanting to help Danny when he learns she knows.
Ikr she was the best TV sister ever
@@thomasraines1396 i think that in that episode she was trying too hard to show Danny that she could help. The fact that she messed up was more because of being nervious rather than not knowing what she was doing, since previous episodes showed she manage herself well against ghosts. IT was a great episode that one
@@julianmartinez4719 oh no that’s what she was doing and I don’t think it was nervousness (she seemed pretty confident) but just inexperience combined with a desire to help.
@@thomasraines1396 you're goddamn right
I'm not sure why showrunners think that a show will be ruined if the leads get into a stable relationship. Season 4 of Kim Possible has its fair share of problems, but at least it demonstrated that you can have your endgame couple get together and still have a show.
It gets lampshaded between Kim and Ron in an earlier episode when they’re watching a teen soap. It’s remarked the leads of the soap won’t get together because the show will end. Season 4 of Kim Possible wasn’t on the cards when they were written to get together in the So the Drama movie, it was meant to be the conclusion to the show, as demonstrated through the school sign as the film’s final shot saying “End”. It was renewed against expectations, but at least explored following a relationship as a relationship and not a shiptease.
It's an easy way to get forced drama. I think it's kinda dumb.
It says more about the writing ability of these people when they think they can't make a stable relationship interesting.
And also their dynamic didn’t change because they got together.
The way kim possible reminded me of Danny
Danny really was better chemistry wise with Valerie. They did feel like equals with a really interesting dynamic
I wanted them to be together so much. 😭 They were actually really cute.
God I felt so robbed rewatching the show to that point.
I didn't even watch the show since I wasn't a nick toon person at that time but I feel so mad because these two could've been the endgame but the show decided to praise Danny and Sam instead.
We didn’t even get closure on Valerie reacting to the fact her ex and her enemy are one and the same person.
I always thought Valerie and Danny made a better couple. Sam should have remained as his best friend. He had more chemistry with Valerie than Sam and they would have made a great power couple. Sure Valerie would have been angry initially when she found out about Danny's secret, but they could have talked it out. They could have started over and worked together to keep the town and each other safe. This show missed out on a golden opportunity.
The writing team wanted to make Danny and Sam a power couple from the start. Even the fact when Danny did commit his love to Valerie after she mentioned about the two of them, she thought that Sam was his girlfriend at first but it turns out it was hidden surprise twist. But the problem with the writers is that they accidentally gave one friend zone couple more chemistry than the endgame rival couple.
Honestly the main writer of the show said they loved Danny x Valerie than Danny x Sam, so that's why Butch insisted more that'll be a ship than Danny x Valerie
Creative differences happened
Even though it’s a very old superhero or double life cliche in that two people who are enemies in their alternate identities are dating, Danny and Valerie did have and could have had more interesting episodes exploring them as a couple than Danny and Sam ever did such as the flour baby episode where they where cuffed together and stalked by Skulker.
@@jbcatz5 Danny never gets old just like Avatar because they’re both endless icons
So many shows do this, where the short-term couple they write ends up having more chemistry than the main couple they wanted you to root for instead.
I sometimes wonder if they’re more conscious of story structure/obligatory scenes for the romance genre when writing those episodes and when it comes to series spanning couples, they have no structure in mind and just arbitrarily add ship teasers here and there as if that’s enough.
I find they often make the setup for the temporary couple very compelling but they don’t find an equally compelling reason for them to break up, it usually is so last minute and wasn’t hinted at from the start so the suspension of belief gets broken because of how jarring and often unbelievable the breakup is.
For Danny and Val it honestly was a cop out, and by not having a permanent reason to not date each other, such as incompatible personalities, it actually made you want to root for then more because the potential for their relationship that the episode set up didn’t go away, the episode still ended with you thinking they’d be great together.
They needed to make the audience satisfied they weren’t truly compatible after all, as well as add in something to hint why Danny and Sam WERE more compatible. Sam was a jealous downer the whole episode who did nothing to make us root for her, where as the obstacle between Danny and Val seemed very possible to overcome.
frrr
I was always on team Valarie. They would’ve made such an amazing ghost hunting duo. Plus she deserved better than the show treated her
even if she wasn't gonna be dannys gf they still should of done more with valerie if only there weren't 13 eps on season 3 because distablised or whatever the eps was called was promising for valerie and we wanted to see what happens next but in phantom planet she didn't do much
@Bla Bla They should have made Valerie Grey the mother of Jackson and Misty Fenton instead of Sam. If that happens, what would Jackson and Misty look like if they are Valerie Grey was the mother instead of Sam.
Well first she’s needs to lose weight….😂
It really is annoying when tv shows have two characters having a strong dynamic and a lotnof chemistry.....only for one of them to end up with the more generic option without any kind of reason or logic besides the stupid "he/she is the one" Danny and Valerie were perfec for each other
@@ironmaster6496. I always looked on that whole faith thing as love at first sight, giving you a push to explore the partner!
I honestly liked the short lived relationship between Danny and Valerie but i woul have been okay with Sam and Danny if they didn't turned the relationship into "blushing and denying the feelings" and nothing else in the last season, the previous at least played a solid friendship dynamic
But that is high school. You realize you crush on your best friend but never want to make a move and try to play it off until you graduate and either make the move because you are older and not as dumb, or you miss out and stay friends for as long as possible.
Yeah, I dont actually mind the "We are just friends" dymanic when it is both parties that just can't see it despite everyone else clearly seeing it.
Like, them both having a crush on eachother but either not being aware or fearing it would ruin their friendship. That, isn't nessesarily a bad relationship.
It can be cute, fun and slightly annoying for the viewers but also somewhat believeable because sometimes people don't realise their own emotions or fear change that might make an otherwise amazing friendship awkward.
They need to stay acting as friends though! Otherwise it does not work! They need to continuesly support eachother, want to be around eachother and be happy for eachothers happiness. If you want to throw in some "Yeah, I support you being with this other girl/guy!....oh shit...no I dont...why am I so frustrated by this?!" then that is fine but they need to make it very obvious....also, they need to stop being coward...give them relationships...have them be heartbroken...make them act out on their emotions for fuck sakes! Make them seem human! We can all be selfish little assholes...show it!
It really is ridiculous how Valerie learns the bane of her existence and boy she almost got into a relationship with are one and the same, and we never see her reaction to it.
i mean ashe probably suspected it
@@xlectraheart. Then why was she trying to kill him? It feels like whenever police officers are competent in superhero stuff, but their going after the heroes themselves!
@@erikbihari3625In the episode right before when she learns Danny’s secret, Valeria finds out: A human can also be half-ghost, and that Vlad Masters is Vlad Plasmius, so it isn’t entirely out of the question that she could’ve potentially found out, or was on the way to finding out Danny’s secret, especially since it’s the episode RIGHT before the episode where she actually does find it out.
@@Im2lazy4thisCrit. I need some specific, season and episode numbers, minutes in, ect.
@@erikbihari3625 Idk about specific minutes, but it’s the episode right before Phantom Planet, S3E011. So her suspecting Danny was Danny Phantom wasn’t entirely out of the question
I always did like Danny and Valerie together as a couple rather then with Sam due to the fact that Danny’s romance with Sam feels more like a “obligation” then actual romantic chemistry since early 00’s writing just loves to have two childhood friends becoming a literal romance even though every other cartoon and they’re mom at the time did the exact same thing (and it’s just a really tired out romantic trope at this point)😒
Finally! I thought I was the only one who was sick and tired of the friend/childhood friend to lover relationship stories. They are done to dead and I don't think it should end, but writers and directors just need to mix up the love stories and come up with new different ones. 😒
idk as a demisexual/romantic myself, I appreciate the childhood friends to lovers. There's so much history and connection there. What I dislike is that there can't seem to be PLATONIC childhood male/female friends.
@@TDLBallistic Wtf does demisexual mean
@@galaxyknight7309 It means you aren't attracted to someone until you develop strong emotions for that person. For example, I felt nothing when I was being intimate with someone physically (younger naive dating years) but when I start to like them as a person, the attraction emerges and now I can feel things for them (emotionally , physically, etc). Basically we literally have to get to know you first before we feel anything lol Doesn't matter if the other person is the most attractive person in the world, we feel nada unless we know you.
@@griseldaflores6362 No offense but that's kind of dumb. If you like girls as a dude your straight if you like guys as a dude your gay if you like both your bi. like we really don't need 50 sexualities.
tucker literally is just the token black kid from "not another teen movie"
Damn, that's wack.
All I really remember from his character is claiming that he was “only in this song because I’m a black guy”.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Tucker should dated sam.
@@dontwatchmyvideoace1383 He did kiss her once
Valerie started off as a one note character and then became one of the greatest characters in the entire show. She had such depth and subtlety to her character as well as moments of genuine fright because of her anger and addiction to ghost hunting. But seeing her grow and evolve with Danny and seeing them go from hating each other to genuinely loving each other was cool to witness. It felt like it was going somewhere, as opposed to Sam and Danny which as you stated, never went anywhere. And eventually I got really bored of them pushing it in my face.
And the fact that we never see Valerie even react to Danny's real identity was a MASSIVE letdown.
Steve Marmel was right. Danny and Valerie should have been endgame.
If Valerie and Danny should have been the endgame, then what would Jackson Fenton and Misty Fenton would look like if Valerie was the mother of the fraternal twins.
@@michaelsarmiento3057 ????
Wait, as in yin yang yo, Steve Marmel? No wonder that show's shipping is sublime!
@@erikbihari3625 Yeah because the man gets it.
@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343. What do you mean by that?
There's a very specific reason why Sam and Danny couldn't get together before the series finale. There are no interesting stories to be had with them as a couple. What would an episode with them together even look like? What would they do together that'd be so different from what they did through the whole show except now they kiss and we're done with the smug shipping? They could ONLY ever get together at the very end. With DannyXValerie I can think of a lot of story potential with their dynamic. Off the top of my head:
- An episode with that old cliche "Oh no, being a superhero is going to make me late for my date" Except with a twist on that That they're BOTH worrying they're going to be late for their date because Valerie won't stop chasing Phantom.
- An episode where they have an argument because Danny let's slip something sympathetic about ghosts. They both go through a really tough week ghost fighting and by the end of it, they give up on being mad and just want to be comforted by their girlfriend/boyfriend.
- An episode where Danny's invited to dinner at the Grey household and both Valerie and Danny keep excusing themselves from the dinner all night to fight ghosts.
- An episode where Sam, Tucker and Valerie have to team up and Sam comes to terms with Valerie as Danny's boyfriend.
- An episode where Danny gets bruised from a ghost fight and Valerie goes on the rampage trying to figure out who hurt her guy.
- And of course, an episode where Valerie finally discovers Danny's secret.
Right!!
You can literally say the same thing about other Nick shows 😭
Korrasami
Kaatang
Helga/Arnold (in the 2nd movie)
All of them got together in the series finale
And writers were able to come up with interesting stories for them afterwards in comic form
It's bold to assume that Danny × Sam would not be able to tell good stories as they haven't even been given a chance to
Hopefully the upcoming comic will prove that
@@Falafelosophicalothing interesting happened with Korrasami besides now the fire lord is also homophobic for no reason. All they do with korrasami is throw in homophobia and claim other characters are also gay. It’s only based around their sexuality
Katara and Aang made sense because they were in a war. But LOK ruined Aang and Katara as characters
@@BabyGirlTiny In addition to what you said, Aang and Katara made mostly consistent progress throughout ATLA. So those two finally getting together when the world was saved makes it feel like they earned their happy ending.
Those are good ideas for that ship
In my opinion, the main problem with Danny and Sam as a couple is that the writers of Danny Phantom broke the first rule of storytelling: show, don’t tell. They spent WAY more time talking about how they were inevitably going to end up together than they did actually establishing any romantic chemistry between them.
Compare this to Kim Possible, where Kim and Ron were always meant to be the endgame, but we actually SEE that slow burn as they go from “it would be weird because we’ve been best friends since childhood” to “you are the love of my life and I don’t even want to think about what I’d do without you”. It’s the little moments: Ron bailing on his job as assistant manager of Bueno Nacho to save Kim after she gets captured, the Christmas episode where Kim gives Ron a digital scrapbook of the two of them together and Ron goes off to fight Dr. Drakken on his own so Kim could spend the holiday with her family, the entirety of Emotion Sickness, etc. Three seasons worth of build-up, culminating in the made-for-TV movie So The Drama, where Ron finally lays his cards on the table and Kim finally realizes that “Mr. Right” was right in front of her all along.
Danny and Sam didn’t even have a FRACTION of that. It was just individual episodes focusing on their relationship but never making any real advances in it after Season 1 and the rest of the show was spent acting all smug about how obvious it was that they were the endgame without giving any reasons as to why they SHOULD be. And it’s made even worse by the fact that they even bothered to set Valerie as a romantic false lead at all. Because it shows that they COULD have written the pair of them as having genuine romantic chemistry. They just seemingly chose NOT to. Simply put, the longer the “will they or won’t they” went on for, the less I wanted to see them do.
When Kim and Ron kissed at the end of So The Drama, I felt rewarded for my time. Everything had been building up to the moment when they got together, we were given plenty of moments in between that gave us ample reason to WANT to see them get together, and then they do get together and it makes you look back at everything that led up to this and and you can’t help but smile as you watch the payoff. When Danny and Sam kissed at the end of Phantom Planet, I felt completely apathetic. They didn’t earn this like Kim and Ron did. They didn’t make nearly as many steps forward towards that endgame. It just… happens. And because of that, the only thing I could think was “Well now I KNOW the show is ending if they’re actually resolving this.”
Also, I find it hilarious that the writers of Danny Phantom set up the slow burn expecting the show to go on for much longer, only to have to rush through it when they got the notice from Nickelodeon that Season 3 would be the last, while the writers of Kim Possible plotted out THEIR romance arc in advance with the idea that Disney would cancel the show once they hit 65 episodes as per usual with them, only to get unexpectedly renewed due to mass fan campaigning.
*100% AGREE!*
Couldn’t have said it better
It is like the relationship between Danny and Sam is a very forced canon shipping. They didn't do any development with romantic chemistry or no real build up and they didn't mind the development to make it worked.
@@justjoannak agreed
Completely agree with you. I loved the relationship between Kim and Ron. Sam and Danny though, I could have lived without.
I loved Kim and Ron so much.
Since you asked if I hated Sam for a reason that wasn't bad writing, to me the sticking point of her character is the 'I'm not like the other girls' mindset that so thoroughly defines her. As you said, it's not unrealistic for a girl growing in the 2000s to develop this mindset, and it would have been cool to see her out grow that attitude, but she doesn't because the show agrees with her. All of the other girls' save for Danny's mom and sister are presented as shallow bullies that aren't worth the time, and Sam talks a lot about how they aren't worth the time. She has no female friends, which is definitely a by product of being written by men, and actively antagonizes all the other girls she interacts with, including Jazz who by all logic she should be good friends with. It makes sense for the bullies, but your best friend's smart and mature sister? Let's not even get into her joining a beauty pageant to protest when all the girls just want to enjoy themselves and being a nag the whole time, and then she wins because the judge is crushing on her when all the girls actually worked for it and wanted it. That was literally just an animated version of a 'Not like other girls' meme. She's also just a huge try hard when it comes to Goth stuff. I'm not a Goth myself, but it really feels like she picked it up, not necessarily because she likes it, but because she wanted to be unique and no one else at school was doing it. Just listen to her talk about uniqueness and being her own person, just look at how her fashion is more punk than true Goth, and tell me that doesn't sound right. Again, this isn't unusual for a teenager, but the show never calls her out on this attitude and just validates it. And that really gets annoying and obvious. I grew up with this show, and when it really hit me what Sam's character actually represented, I just couldn't like her anymore.
I like to imagine a reboot of this show where Sam isn't treated like she's right all the time, is allowed to be immature and kind of dumb and to grow from that. A story where she actually does outgrow those ingrained misogynistic views of other women and actually forms real friendships with the other girls in her life. That would be so cool.
That would be cool. Hell a lot of the characters could actually be allowed to grow and change as a lot of them are pretty one note, Valerie is the only character who feels like she changes.
For real. If they ever reboot it, I would love to see them flesh out Sam more as a character. Make her more likable. I do like the idea of her and Danny ending up together but it would’ve played out a lot better if the writers gave us a reason to side with her. She needed some character development for sure.
Sam always felt like a ‘just a phase’ goth where she’ll definitely grow out of it in a few years, I think even Butch admitted she wasn’t a true goth.
Another good reason is Sam gets special treatment from the writers a lot like Mabel Pines did where the show calls out their poor decisions but lets them get away with it even though it gives the character a chance to grow and change but they’re too attached to them as they currently are (at least I assume that’s why it happens)
Yeah, honestly I'd love for Sam to not only have female friends but to actually grow into herself instead of trying so desperately to be unique to escape her parents' expectations and standards she becomes a typical rich rebellious child. If the show ever got remade I'd want to see her grow from Trying WAY too Hard Goth and Ultra Recylo blah blah vegetarian into an actual Vegan Witchy aesthetic. She loves plants and saving wildlife and fighting for social rights, so making her a Jewish-Wicca vegan girl with punk aesthetics would make perfect since for her development instead of her loudly proclaiming her indivuality and forcing it down others' throats
I’d be down to see Sam’s character get a rewrite if the series ever got a reboot or a continuation. It was hard to go back to the show a few years ago and see a lot of things I didn’t notice before. I had fun but now want to see more done since a lot of people know better than before!
Sam wasn’t likable enough to make me want to see Danny end up with her. I’m just a very short while I loved Valerie more cause she was kind of exciting and wasn’t your typical “Not Like Other Girls” trope that was everywhere when Sam was created. Literally being an NLOG was 90% of Sam’s thing even more than her being goth.
The first episode is her changing the entire lunch menu of the school because she didn’t like how things were done.
You put it into words so much better than I’ve been able to. Like she’s 14 and I get it, but it’s so off-putting to watch. I kept asking myself if I was wrong for always feeling like I couldn’t stand her, but this so succinctly sums up why. I love goth characters, friends to lovers can still be done well, but Sam just makes my skin crawl with how holier than thou she is.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
the fact that you posted this before i post my valerie video lmaoooooo this show really put her through THE RINGER bbygirl would not catch a break
lmao tis the season for halloween content and we are cursed to overlap in what we release.
I will never forgive the show for leaving her story arc unfinished.
Danny Phantom is one of those rare shows that would be really improved with an (ANIMATED) reboot.
Also, the older I get, the more interested I am in how romance is portrayed in these stories after just a couple episodes of blushing/flirting
I’m having second thoughts about a reboot. What if that show does far worse than Fairly Odder?
@@okjeffy6581 animated. Preferably as a Hulu or Netflix original.
Ah, I'd like to see that. Like... It'll be so cool to see how they'll do dark danny and expend of those ideas from the first and second season. What do you think they should expand on or change up?
@@Glofishes not make Tucker a sex offender for one thing. Less homophobia.
Have Sam grow from her NLOG phase (nothing wrong with going through this as a teen. The early 2000’s were really rough for teen girls. But she eventually needs to start supporting other women) into someone who is goth because that’s what she likes, not because she’s choosing to be an outcast. Putting Valerie and Danny’s relationship before Danny and Sam realize they have feelings for each other and have Sam’s concern for Danny dating Valerie be from a place of love and not jealousy.
Maybe put the love confession in the beginning of the second season and have them be a teenage couple. There’s a lot to work off of with their personalities and their different positions in life. And have the love story grow organically and not “boy lead + girl lead”
@@nervousbreakdown711 Yeah fixing the homophobia and tucker's questionable behavior I assume will be given , I'd like to see more female friendships too, like Sam become friends with Valerie and Star + making them part of the main cast. I think maybe having Jazz help Sam grow out of that phase would be nice.
I feel like giving the more more depth into the secondary characaters would be nice, and I would like to add more foreshadowing to events to come.
The Valerie arc was the best story and all I wanted was for all the shipping to end at no one dating and have Valerie join the team. We were robbed of a better story.
You know, I could never name why I didn't like Sam and Danny getting together in the finale as a kid. I always wanted them together and when it happened, it just felt...empty? You have explained it clearly to my little child brain and my adult brain as well. I hate whenever I see wasted potential in a show, especially when it was a series I loved as a child.
The finale felt empty in general to be honest.
@@violettshy also honestly weird as hell like Tucker becoming mayor of Amity Park.. for reasons.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
@@jamesmayle3787 the bible is filled with lies
this is similar to how a lot of Starco shippers felt when Star Vs the Forces of Evil ended. They got their ship, but at what cost (bad writing. that's the cost.)
Man I wish they had just stayed friends, the childhood friends to lovers thing has always been a trope that bothered me. I think it speaks even more deeply if they find relationships with other people and still remain best friends through it all. But that’s 100% personal taste lol. I just want more deep friendships in media that aren’t immediately pushed as eventually becoming romantic
As someone who had been 'shipped' with my best friend for years, despite the complete lack of romantic feelings between us, I agree. Give me more friendships! They are important too!
@@Bia-mp6mi dude, a classmate once tried to tease us that me and my best friend were a couple, and the moment i lied to him, with a straight face telling him "dumbass, she's my cousin" he stopped.
At the end, me and her ended up calling eachother cousins affectionally to this day.
@@julianmartinez4719 Nice one!
The only time the "childhood friends to lovers" trope felt believable was with Cloud x Tifa. Every other pairing that falls into that trope just feels like it has the mentality of "they're childhood friends, they HAVE to get together."
That type of thing actively ruined a friendship of mine. People teased us every day because we had good chemistry. That made our friendship inevitably very awkward, and he has since left my life. I have no idea if we would have ever done what are classmates were telling us to do. I honestly think it's none of their business. I just wanted a friend... They put to much pressure on us for a friendship to thrive...
I honestly feel cheated. I liked the guy a lot! But if was middle school man, I had NO intention of what, pegging him??? like wtf. Needless to say the pressure was pretty severe.
One of the more sad things is that I had two good male friends, they only shipped me with the one because he was "more attractive." I say that because the other friend was overweight... That's what I'm talking about when I say sad. They didn't think the overweight friend would be in a romantic relationship with anyone.
overall a horrible situation. Shit sucks man.
I don't really agree that Danny was *not* suffering in the series. For while he was framed as being a menace and even his own parents wanted him dead(er). If they had focused on those elements in the finale then maybe Danny giving up his powers works better.
The problem with Sam and the others reaction is more like they are unhappy with the fact that he wants to be human in general. They didnt know at the time there was a looming threat, so Danny is not actively avoiding responsibility. And Sam hyping up Danny being unique by being a hero can come off like she was more interested in him when has powers.
My thoughts exactly. Danny just wanted a normal life all things considered, and that pissed Sam off. Tf?
@@alysssabear Hard agree. When Tucker is being more responsible and a better friend, you know Sam messed up
The whole reason Danny got his powers to begin with was at Sam’s interest in him going into the portal. Walker purposefully sank Danny’s ghost persona with negative press by overshadowing the mayor during the Wulf sting. When Vlad became mayor many of the new rules he put in were to frustrate Team Phantom first and foremost(Danny did help aggravate Vlad by giving tit for tat). The whole Dark Danny thing. Danny definitely suffered. Phantom Planet presented a team who could do what he did but better, so him choosing to give up his powers was far from selfish.
@@jbcatz5
Danny suffered, but I believe the selfish part was him giving up his powers because it seemed more like he was jealous of Vlad's team rather than because he genuinely thought they were better protectors, hell he clearly knew something was up with them
@@mikemorro140 He was at the end of his rope and a teenage boy. It’s not inconceivable he’d choose to retire as a superhero. The last time a ghost hunting force was out in Amity Park it was the Not Scooby Gang, the Guys in White and Jack, Masters Blasters being far more competent than all three combined.
I remember as a kid, I'd always just be bored out of my mind whenever it came to the "romantic" scenes between Danny and Sam. It just felt like the show tried so hard to make it as obvious as possible that they were going to get together. At least the arc with Valerie was actually interesting.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
@@jamesmayle3787 ... What does that have to do with anything I've said? Also, did you just assume that I have a bad relationship with my parents? I don't need to forgive anyone, I don't hold anything against anyone. Did you reply to the wrong comment or something? You know nothing of me, and yet you have assumed that it is your job to tell me to be a forgiving person and to believe in Jesus? Who do you think you are? Some disciple of God spreading self-proclaimed truth? Do you think you are better than everyone around you?
@@blackheart.multiverse6728 it's probably a bot
@@lilrobodoge6749 I don't care.
@@blackheart.multiverse6728 understandable, but why are you salty though.
In comparison to this, we have Kim and Ron, who have legitimately the best "Will they, won't they?" romance that really has been built up and worked so well. Kim and Ron legit worked so well with either being best friends or as a couple, so the audience was able to love then either way.
Something that does bother me about the show in general is how it feels like Danny, Jazz, and Valerie are the only characters who change. Everyone else stays the same and it’s such a missed opportunity for the supporting characters to grow and change as much as Danny does.
Doesn’t Dash grow up a little bit after the episode where he and Danny are shrunk to the size of ants? Or does he just go back to being a bully even after we see his closet full of teddy bears? I haven’t watched the show since I was a teenager so I don’t recall if that was a serious through line or not.
@eileensnow6153 Dash unfortunately reverts back to the same one note bully, and it's honestly a shame as well.
The theme song is literally the premise, the Origin Story, which is Really Fucking Cool. Tells you everything you need to know in the first minute.
And I love how the Phandom (the fandom’s nickname) just said “he half-died” and “no beta we die like Danny” and “this are the clothes I died in🤨” XD
Isn't that just a super hero trope? Ppg kinda do that too
Also BEN 10 OG and JAKE LONG: AMERICAN DRAGON theme song did it too
@@SuperEasywalker Might've been a late 2000's thing. Most other superhero shows before and after that era either had theme songs with little to no lyrics, and what lyrics are there are nonsense (I'm looking at you, 90's Spider-Man). In fact, I think during that time those three were the only ones doing that.
@@roxycauldwell544 - I'm not sure if it counts if its just narration. And I'm fairly positive the opening is just narration and then a theme tune.
Now if only the Phandom would stop treating Danny as if he's trans just because Danielle exists. No one calls Logan trans because of X-23, so why the hell does Danny get this treatment?
I actually loved Danny and Valerie's relationship and was pissed when they could've done more but didn't. They could've been the show's main power couple that no one expected. Especially the fact that, as a mixed race person(Black+Puerto Rican), I liked seeing a mixed race couple ( a very well written couple at that) in an early/late 2000s cartoon. Their story had so much potential that got thrown away.
I'm sure there are plenty of fanfics where Danny and Val team up against Vlad and Val finally learns Danny's secret and then we see whether or not Val joins the team.
this could just be speculation but have you noticed how nickelodeon doesn’t like mixed race black couples? 😭 that could be why it didn’t happen. its just a trend ive noticed
Sam was always on Danny's side, but only superficially. Re-watched a few months ago and, episode one, she dismisses his concerns outright with "yOuR PoWeRs MaKe YoU UnIqUe!" which then devolves into a rant about her own situation. In that conversation, he's actively worried because he can't control his powers, medical uniqueness is a bad thing and his concerns about his parents may be extreme, but reasonable. And Sam shuts down the conversation. And that's where the writing on Sam stayed; she was on Danny's side, but aLrEaDy KnEw what was up with him, so when things like "the only adult who actually knows what I'm going through cannot be trusted; is this just puberty or am I in serious trouble" came up, she wasn't someone he could talk to. Great writing for a teenage flameout that should have happened early on.
Meanwhile, Valerie had a built in blowup coming that was absolutely full of story and could have been mended because of the best under used character; Danni.
Danni is awesome (reminder if you forgot like the writers; Vlad, accepting that he'll never have Danny as a son, works to create a brainwashed Danny clone to be his kid, and his closest success is Danni. Instead of going "Oh, I have a clone of my enemy who can be my beloved child, just happened to be a girl" Vlad doubles down on the Danny clone idea and tries to use Danni to make it happen. He even calls her Danielle. Chick just...does not get an identity of her own out of the mess.) In Valarie's last real appearance, she bonds with Danni, reluctantly teams up with Danny to save her, and learns the truth about Vlad...which never goes anywhere cause the show ends a few episodes later. Now, imagine if Valarie and Danny got the blowup over their identities and saving Danni had become a first step in their reconciliation; they have to talk, and have a meaningful conversation. Suddenly, Danny has someone who he not only can talk to about his medical concerns, but someone he HAS to talk to about everything. How he can't really talk to his parents, or even his sister, how the only adult he's ever even heard of might have the medical expertise to help him but is absolutely untrustworthy, how his limited control and lack of a ghostly support/information network led to him often making mistakes
Danny Phantom as a show often leads me to pining about how many potential greatnesses they just dropped, (Tucker and Sam's shallow relationships with their identities, the Fenton parents dabbling in totally experimental tech that somehow always worked, Mr. Lancer's beautiful exclamations that just solidified his identity as an English teacher at every oportunity.) But maybe those missed potential moments are places other stories could pick up.
I agree so much potential, I'm of the (Maybe) popular opinon that if Danny Phantom get's a reboot it should be aimed at older audiences and it should have Danny x Valerie because that was just an interesting plot point and dynamic wasted, and if I was a writer I would've just dropped all Danny x Sam centric anything and have Danny and Valerie be end game
@@masked_undead539 i would invite the two of you for a drink for spitting facts like bosses... but there's not enough bars to quantify how much i agree.
@@masked_undead539, @julian martinez now think about this; Valerie wasn't just the perfect romantic character for Danny, she was also the perfect character to check Sam's privilege.
Sam's rich, and while the aggressive "Everyone should go vegan" calmed down after the first season and a half, she never really gets corrected for that behavior. It's easy to forget, but dietary difficulties like that weren't really supportable in the 2000's. But Sam, who didn't have a part-time job, who had a family with a staff and, at least once, was shown to have her own greenhouse to be able to grow some of her food (probably not a sizeable percentage, but hey) was acting like everyone should go vegan.
Now, look at Valerie. Valerie has two jobs (Vlad could have been even more insidious by paying her, but he had a lot of dropped potential as a villain just like everyone else), so she doesn't have time, she has to save for college/help the family out, so she doesn't have money and she lives in an apartment.
Sam rails against her parents at a few weird things, but that's always over the goth thing, they're never shown trying to convince her to stop being vegan. Sam can be whoever she wants because of their money, and spouts a lot of eco fascist stuff without ever taking a broader picture of the thing. Her relationships with her identities are shallow (which, story-wise, isn't a bad thing as a character's starting point) but Valerie would have been the perfect character to make her think and commit.
@@meghanhenderson6682 Honestly they should just rename the show wasted potential
@@masked_undead539 This show has a tendency to drive me a bit feral. All sorts of great characters (or, like Sam and Tucker, psuedo characters who really needed the writers to take another draft) are just...hanging around, waiting for the plot to get around to them. AND IT NEVER DOES!!!
Sam aged like milk while Valerie aged like wine. While in the 00s her character would have at least been considered progressive because she was nonconformist and sharp witted (and like in the early 00s every network needed at least 1 sharp-witted sassy goth girl) it definitely comes off like she was a NLOG stereotype, because she gets along with NO other woman in this show and 99% of the other women are shallow teenagers. There's no depth to her nonconformist interests besides being a talking piece that was ignored. She remained stagnant at best but there were scenes where she absolutely comes off as terrible of a person as a 15-year old teenage girl can be, and it just hurts nowadays to watch.
Meanwhile Valerie won our hearts by, well, growing one. She takes up a part-time job she obviously doesn't like to help her dad out (and it really feels like she didn't HAVE to do so to make rent but did so because he works long hours in the night) , she makes up for overbearing Danny with her schoolwork, she is very protective of Danny, etc. She starts as just another shallow popular girl and ends the show having a big heart. She has a more depth and a more unique role than female characters coming out TODAY and that's both impressive and depressing.
But honestly the most overlooked part of these 2 ships, is that Danny. Fucking. Tries. He shows her more attention in 1 episode than he does with Sam in practically every episode, and I get that's just to sell the ship to make the heartbreak harder to swallow, but it really hurts Sam in the long run when Danny doesn't get to, say, stay up all night DMing each other.
Valerie deserved better.
I think a big part of why Danny/Valerie works where Danny/Sam doesn't is that Valerie was given a fully fleshed out personality, goals, and desires outside of Danny. Sam was simply never given that kind of love and care by the writing team. They went with 'not like other girls' and 'Goth poser' and didn't dig deeper into her. Which is a shame, because Sam has a lot of potential - why does she hide her wealth? Was she used by someone for it in the past? How did she get into being goth? What's her relationship with her parents like beyond their clashing; do they support her career aspirations or her hobbies? What *are* her career aspirations or hobbies? She could have been fleshed out a lot more and made into a character we would have wanted to see with Danny. But they just didn't try. And to me, that's worse than trying and failing.
The theme song still slaps till now
This right here is why pre-determined romances are poisonous to a show. Pair that with the last-minute hookup, and you've a recipe for a serialized disaster.
pre determined romances are fine as long you can give them the proper set up and pay off the problem is when you drag it out constantly
There is nothing wrong with predetermined romances. Especially with animated shows. It literally comes down to the writing.
Yes, when it comes to live action, actors have chemistry. However the casting director is supposed to do their job and cast actors with chemistry. But ultimately the writing needs to support it. This was case of shit writing. They had a stale ship that was doing absolutely nothing at all, except reminding us every five seconds that they are endgame. Instead of making us want them to be endgame. They just told us that they were which takes out most of the fun of shipping. Then wrote an amazing character who had great chemistry and story potential. The writers just had massive egos about their endgame couple and vastly overestimated how much folks even cared about them together. But even without Valerie, Sam and Danny were still stale. It was an incredibly poorly done will they/won't they. I've had ships that took longer to get together. But it was written way better than this crap. Doesn't help that the show didn't realize how unlikable they made Sam. This was not about pre determined romances. It was just shit writing.
Never thought I'd hear a good compliment about miraculous shipping
I'll take an intentional Trainwreck of a ship over an accidental one any day of the week.
PLEASE tell me you've seen American Dragon: Jake Long! Based on what you've said in this video, that show's own romance arc is almost exactly the kind you like to see.
That show is amazing! Love it as a kid!
Jake and Roes"s relationship felt the most realistic to me because they were just two strangers who slowly started to fall for each other from the surface level. They were also enemies to lovers too when you think about it, maybe. Like their romance was more effective in the show in my opinion. Like, by the the series from start to finish you can say " yeah, these two really cared about each other." 😄
Oh yeah now that is my fav story. They did a great job with it.
I hate what they did with the artstyle tho... Jake went from looking like an actual dragon to a human head on a dragon body.
The memories... i loved that show as a kid
Valerie had the best relationship dynamic let’s be real
They’re literally opposites
Popular kid and non popular
Ghost hunter and no ghost hunter
Dating your nemesis trope
Danny and Valerie’s chemistry was much less forced, ironically enough considering they got together faster. With Sam and Danny it was so much “she’s not my girlfriend” and dancing around the attraction that it got old when they don’t have THAT much in common in terms of interests and temperaments.
Yes the dynamic was the best, but that is why Valerie ended it before it became a big thing was good. Because most of those tropes never end well when you actually get them going. IMO
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Agreed, these games are piss me off... This is why Kim Possible was such a breath of fresh air back in the day.
Yet I am still mad that it happened. It's not that the ship is bad, I just hate the fact that a boy and a girl can't be friends in cartoons.
Really, as I remember, them getting together didn't change that much. Which means it was either unnecessary or just proof of how natural it was, depending on how you look at it.
@@valentinkambushev4968 Right. I was not happy with Kim and Ron. I didn't hate it, but was annoyed. I didn't ship them at all.
"The show blew its load too early"
This is how I feel about Star vs the Forces of Evil.
They TRIED to Pretend that Star+Marco wasn't end game, but they made it obvious that it WAS by episode 3(?). Meanwhile we got a LOT of needless fan service drama!
sam & danny's conversation in phantom planet always pissed me off. as you said, the idea was there but what she was spewing out was nothing but garbage. it made it seem like she only hung around danny because of his ghost powers- but then its like, why were you friends with him in the first place? she didnt seem to have a problem with him not being half-dead when they started hanging out so, what changed now ?
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Actually despite that speech making me want to punch her in the face if you looked at the show as a whole it actually showed Sam in character. I mean it wasn't the first time Sam disregarded Danny's feelings especially when it was for something she wanted as well as emotionally abuse him.
In even though many of us could see the red flags when it came down to Sam and Danny being an item this was the biggest one.
It's not actually Sam/Danny, it's Sam/Phantom. Every time she shows any romantic feelings towards him it was because of a ghost or it's abilities affecting someone. All of the jealous moments are more because Danny's not fighting/investigating. Every time he loses his powers Sam's the one that talks him into getting them back. And the moments away from the ghosts are the overused blushing scenes, nothing to show or imply Sam would like him without his powers. You could take Valerie breaking up with him and say that's the reason Danny was with Sam, she already knew about it.
she literally admitted it in the episode where he got rid of his powers and she was like i thought u were special but now ur just like everyone else
I would counter and say that Sam *_was_* interested in Regular Danny, see:
Danny in his anxiety over talking to Paulina saying, “I can't help it get... I get weak-kneed when I try to talk to cute girls!” with Sam replying in an accusatory tone, “OH, and yet you have no problem talking to me?!” (Taking offense at the idea that no, Danny does _not_ find her attractive.)
Steve Marmel was one of the main writers and developed seasons 1 and 2 but then left which is why season 3 under Butch Hartman wasn't that good. So Danny Phantom was clearly good because of Marmel
Marmel also apparently wanted Danny and Valerie to be together as the endgame romance.
He also created Sonny With a Chance and Mech X4, which I haven't seen yet. I've read the rest of his filmography and his range is really impressive!
@@Bullet731108 Yes, I agree.
@@AJ-xc4qe He also did So random. And he also worked on the Smosh movie.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
I was rooting for Valerie but Butch could NOT let a strong black character overrule his goth queen 🤧
This part 🤦🏿♀️
Or maybe the writers should have had second thoughts on how to make the romance between Danny and Sam actually be good with build up. It’s like they came up with an idea that wasn’t that great but nobody had any objections to go back to the drawing board.
@@solidSnake4580 butch had a hard on for Sam as she was his favorite character and it showed especially in the later episodes
Nah, not you bringing up race over a cartoon. That's fucking crazy, bro.
@@solidSnake4580 Yeah but they never did that either. Sam and Danny don't develop together as a pairing. It's just the same dynamic from start to finish.
I feel like the vast majority of shows I knew from when I was a teenager had these pairs. Characters that were clearly a pair but either never got together or didn’t get together until the very end of the show.
You know it was really bad when even AVATAR was guilty of this... Kind of. It was never really explicit until The Fortuneteller, and there was a good reason why they didn't get together until the end, i.e. a little thing I call M.I.S.H. (More Important Sh*t Happening), but it's still kinda there.
@@FlyingFocs To be frank, Avatar did a lot of things right, but never really the romance.
The love story in Danny Phantom will haunt me forever. It's not that Danny and Sam couldn't have worked, it's that they didn't do it right. Had Sam gotten some character development through the series, and had Danny not been pushed left and right (from the characters on the show to the creative team behind the show) to date Sam, it could have been good.
As it stands, Valerie would have been a far better endgame. I still don't understand how people could ship Danny and Sam.
I know this video is about Danny Phantom, but hearing the statement that Miraculous' romance story is "Moving at a microscopic pace" is an absolutely priceless.
I was told that Danny’s ghost actually possessed his corpse, because he did die, but he’s like a Shrodingers cat situation
That is a phandom headcanon/ AU. For those into the more horror part of show its definitely a cool idea rhat ups the creep factor so its fairly popular.
Dang that'd be intense 😐 And dark.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
@@jamesmayle3787 based Jesus posting
@@holmanthehorror6127 not it’s not, it’s a trash bot comment, if you want real Jesus teachings got to a poor church, they are the real thing.
I will always be a Danny x Valerie fan. Sam and Danny felt like they were just pushing hard, especially in season 3, but not actually doing anything until the last episode.
I always found Sam to be as shallow as Paulina; just in a different way. They're both privleged, annoying rich girls but at at least Paulina seems to accept it, to a degree.
It's crazy how there can get to be this attitude where you don't have to try with the main character, because they're the main character. To the point where side characters shine brighter.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Whadda ya mean?
there’s a known formula for love stories, with specific obligatory scenes, and one of them is showing the audience how two people are perfect together but reveal an obstacle that’s keeping them apart that has to be overcome. They took these characters partway through a love story arc but stopped at the midpoint.
They didn’t actually prove these characters shouldn’t be together, they showed they WERE perfect for each other instead, so much so we rooted for Val to get with Danny eventually.
That episode in particular, tho it was very much a series wide problem, failed to show how Sam was the more compatible one for Danny, for that episode to work we should have had a B plot with Sam that made us root for her to eventually get with Danny, so we’d be happy by the end that Danny was still single and that Sam would still have a chance.
Likewise the reasons Danny and Val don’t get together needed to be from true character incompatibility, to satisfy the audience with that outcome, not a small complication that would be solved by an honest conversation to clear up a few misunderstandings. It just wasn’t relationship ending at all.
Val wanting to focus on ghost hunting actually made her MORE perfect for him, so Danny revealing his secret identity and Val getting the context to overcome her issues with his ghost self would have resulted in a perfect healthy power couple even better than the dynamic they already had in the episode.
Also, having Sam imply on several occasions she wouldn’t like Danny if he wasn’t a unique hero definitely doesn’t give you unconditional love perfect couple vibes that are required to make you root for a ship, so it’s no wonders why some people feel so strongly against the ship, as apposed to just passive disinterest.
I thought I was the only one who wanted Danny & Valerie to be/stay together because they were the superior couple ❤
Relationships don't exist solely to happen, be checked off a checklist and have people move on from the series in question, though. They can be good and fun and serve to give more dimensions to characters and their mutual relationships to one another and to others, as long as you're not named Rumiko Takahashi, who seems to think romantic relationships exist in a constant state of pre-existantial flux, where someone is usually just about to confess their feelings before being stopped by plot, over and over again for the entire series, only for ALL of the actual romantic stuff getting to happen COMPLETELY OFFSCREEN.
Thank you. I love her work and I love how much others love her work, but no one ever brings up the status quo limbo
@@nellewoodruff6337 It's weird too. Not a single onscreen kiss even in all of Inuyasha for the main romantic leads, as far as I have been informed. I think the anime added some accidental ones in filler, and it's sad they had to do that.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
@@jamesmayle3787 Not only is it demonstrably not, be it failed prophecies, internal inconsistencies or unverifiable claims not at all different from the same sort of claims of every other religion....but why are you posting about this in the comments of a cartoon video ?
@@WeirdWonderful I think its the best you report as spam (as I have been doing) and move on. Don't feed the bot and all that.
It's okay we have fanfiction to fix it
I'm glad you pointed out the whole "everyone in the series drawing attention to the ship" thing being very irritating because its one of my biggest pet peeves in these kinda romances.
Characters teasing a ship, is fine , but it has to sound natural. When everyone in the show draws attention to the ship, or goes on about how perfect they would be together, and so on and so forth it stops feeling natural and starts feeling like the writers are trying to convince the audience of something they couldn't do visually and through story.
Star vs did this too with starco and it was so frustrating hearing the side love interests, especially, tell marco to get with star because of how perfect they are together.
It doesn't work.
If you wanna tell the audience these two are a good match, show that, stop having other characters push it down our throats by telling us to like it.
is worse sense you bring up star vs. when writers are just pushing, forcing two characters together. on top of those two characters out of no where like each other romantically. like this dude said. star and marco liked each other as friends no hints of anything more. even seem like a sibling build going on. than out of no where they're characters been changed for romance rather about fighting evil. the show's not even about the title anymore. there other shows that done this to two characters that acted as really best friends. than randomly want them to have romance with no history hints that they did had a thing before one of them makes a move. like come on writers. make up your minds.
Valerie was easily the best character in the show. She deserved way better.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Even as a kid I was pretty peeved with what they did with Sam and Danny. I hardcore shipped it, but I was so fed up with how they dragged things along.
Sameee, love the ship, but i hate the wasted potential it had, it could be a lot better.
Also joined Team Val as actual chemistry was shown with build up and pay off, even felt part of it when they did the whole future thing too like she was so hurt by what Danny became.
Also, the Val and Danny ship was kinda like the main ship in American Dragon Jake Long in a way and given the timing, I compare them a lot
Except the writers actually knew what they were doing with Rose and Jake and made it feel deeper and more real than anything with Danny and Sam.
THANK YOU for this! Val and Danny’s relationship was so callously tossed aside. it’s the reason Shades of Gray is my favorite episode, because it at least gave some closure. we respect Valerie Gray in this house ✨🫡
You rekindled my love for this ship, ironically. I wanted to hate this ship so bad but it's really the small moments I watch as a child that made me love the ship so much to begin with. I hated it because I realize, as a kid, they tricked me into the small moments and the journey towards the end is a massive disaster that I hated falling for that.
I feel kinda the same, i love them together for some reason, while i understand why people hate it, i just can't, and i don't understand why, i just don't feel nothing when Danny and Valerie are on screen, sorry, i respect it, and i know very well why is so liked, i just don't, i wish the series had better writting in a lot of aspects tho, it just makes me sad that it wasn't made better.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
@@jamesmayle3787 what.
It's less about "a middle age man writing a teenager" and more of just bad writing as a whole to me. You don't need to become something to understand and write for it, you just need to understand it alone and be a good writer to make what you want accurately. If that weren't the case then most fantastical stories would be considered "bad writing". That aside, yeah you make a great point: they aren't a good match or rather, the best match.
Ngl I think it is somewhat relevant since...middle age men don't exactly know how it feels to be a teenager. I don't think he was saying they can never write good stories about teenagers, but of course there's going to be thing they're gonna fall flat on. I think it's somewhat of an issue with some anime as well.
"You don't need to become something to understand and write for it" You don't but it certainly helps a lot. For example, during the making of Soul they hired several black people to be consultants on the film. Most of Pixar's staff is white. They did this so they wouldn't accidentally put in anything offensive.
Example of white people writing black characters. It's not males writing females but my point still stands. In Game Shakers there was a gag where Double G pulled a cop's pants down. No black guy would ever get away with that.
A lot of people like to pick 1 thing and make that their entire identity. When In reality being a certain demographic doesn’t change some things like if you’re adventurous or manipulative, ect. I think it all does come down to broadening your experiences and doing research on things before you write them. It’s not impossible just takes extra work, and the ability to get some feed back from someone who proof reads the work. I mean look at anime the majority of the characters don’t even act human in the slightest.
@@bobtheball5384 ... Think carefully about what you said. How do you think someone goes to being a middle aged man without being a teenager who did the exact same things we did, the exact same mistakes?
I'm surprised that you didn't mention D-Stabilized in all of this. IMO it was the best episode of s3 by far, because it quite literally made Val have to reevaluate everything she thought she knew. Every day I think about how there weren't episodes after that and every day I wish we'd had more, I wake up in the morning, I think about how Valerie's character and plot were destroyed and that anger fuels me for the rest of the day.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Valerie is literally such a good character I really wish they did more with her and involved her better in the last season
Valarie deserved better, and so did liz. it's insane how the same exact mistake could be repeated in a completely unrelated show.
As a goth myself as a kid I felt like I had to back Sam even though sometimes I found her embarrassing( I rarely like how Goths are written(honestly 99% of goth character are written like posers)) but I liked (and still do) Valerie and her ship *so much better*
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
That's sadly true and the only cool goth girls are mostly villains/side characters :/
@@mittag983
What now?
"I rarely like how Goths are written(honestly 99% of goth character are written like posers"
Huh?
@@dylansharp8471 ?
I've been noticing how the "will they won't they" trope has been a easy target to gaslight people to be invested for main couples that takes them like THREE SEASONS to be a thing.
and I hate it.
Danny and Sam is beautiful compared to the ultimate Will They Or Won’t They of the modern age, Ross and Rachel. Ten seasons of off and on, showing more why they don’t work as a couple, and yet they still see out the show as a couple despite being two very incompatible people (with many seasons worth of footage as evidence).
@@jbcatz5 I heard about how sitcoms treat their main couples, which they never go well, 10 seasons is never a good sign for a writing standpoint.
This is literally the only thing keeping RWBY going. They want to see the forced ship get together even though other shops got together during that time, and also one half of the ship for better development with another character
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Always remember, Butch didn't create shows. He created premises. Most of which didn't get picked up.
"The real problems start with this episode"
*Plays "Remember" by Ember McLain*
I don't know if that was intentional or not, but anyone who knows the Randy Stair story agrees with you on multiple levels.
was it the guy who was shooting people at a grocery store because he loved ember or something i forgot the story
@@humanzombieninjayep a guy shooted three people then killed himself as a way to revenge from the builling he received and neglect from his parents and because he wanted to be a girl ( cuz he's a girl in a boy's body) , a ghost girl just like ember mcclain
Can you imagine if Dani and Sam actually started dating in the middle of the first or second season of the show but broke up and we got to see how that afected their friendship instead.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
That would’ve been *WAY* better than what we actually got
Dani? As in Danielle The 12-Year Old (according to Danny but dosen't really make sense) semi-clone girl Vlad Made?
????
It's sort of similar to like Phinbella from Phineas and Ferb, with the whole would they won't they situation. But I personally think what makes it better than Danny and Sam is that it didn't release the party cannon early.
They built it from the ground up, they gave the two characters relationship development and conflict which makes you want to root for Isabella. They make the audience understand their chemistry and justify how great they are as a couple. Well, the cutest couple I ever witnessed. It makes the second to last finale "Act Your Age" warranted the fanservice it deserves. The feeling of satisfaction that was rewarded after seeing the two work off each other without it wasting any time.
With all the other running gags that go on within the show, Phinbella gets glossed over by a lot of people.
Unlike Danny and Sam, Phinabella was a ship that did those two lovebirds justice.😃😃😃😃😃❤❤❤❤
Hmm....should Sarcastic do an episode on Phinbella? 🤔
,@@Penguinmanereikel You, my man, are a GENIUS
I feel like Dan and Swampy do generally nail it with these romances. Milo and Ananda from Milo Murphy's Law is one of my favorite ships.
Candace and Jeremy is also pretty fun
@@Nulthazor in retrospect, Candace got her man within the summer. Isabella? TEN YEARS. Shows that she's really committed to the crush. Respect. The girl has patience.
It always fascinates me to remember that Butch Hartman actively wanted Vlad to die just because Vlad had such good chemistry with Danny to the point that people made comments and Butch threw a tantrum and just wanted to delete the character instead of having the character continue his motivations and be a villain. And now whenever Vlad is brought up to Butch he throws a massive tantrum and basically says he doesn't know him. I know technically this video is about Sam but a lot of this character development and the terrible writing is all on Butch Hartman and boy does it show when it comes to Vlad. Season 3 was awful.
Vlad wouldn't be stucked in space, get hit by the asteroid, and get captured by aliens if we just go with Steve Marmel's original plans for Season 3 of Danny Phantom.
@@michaelsarmiento3057 If only Butch never touched his own stuff, it would have been good.
I never really had a problem with Sam, but I never felt the intense chemistry that Butch Hartman desperately wanted me to feel between her and Danny. Episodes like Fanning the Flames just never landed for me because it just never felt like an endgame love. And I do agree with Steve Marmel that Danny and Valerie had more chemistry, development, history and buildup than Sam and Danny ever did. Valerie was easily one of the most interesting characters on the show and the dynamic she had with Danny was cool to watch because of how they do end up falling for one another. And the fact that we NEVER get to see Valerie's reaction to him being a ghost is just criminal. That could have made for really compelling drama.
Steve Marmel had the right idea with where to take Danny Phantom after season 2 and was really the reason why it had such a spark in the first two seasons. Combined with Butch's direction, they made for a great team. But Butch made it very clear in season 3 that he did not understand what made Danny Phantom such a great show and it ruined it by taking away the dark tone, not actually showing us stuff we wanted to see (IE Dan Phantom coming back for revenge) putting Danny and Sam together, and completely erasing Valerie Gray from the narrative.
It's ironic that by the creator of the show getting more involved, he ruined it.
I HAVENT WATCHED THIS YET BUT DANNY PHANTOM WAS MY ENTIRE CHILDHOOD NO KIDDING
that one comic of val and danny being laser eyed by a giant butch hartman, who then feels the need to correct us the viewer on the opening words to the theme song somehow sums all of this up in an image.
I feel like in shows with a "will they won't they" thing, they should play around with that for like a third of the show's runtime, the rest of the show they should be together.
The relationship starting isn't the end of the development, they can develop DURING their relationship, likely even more than they do during the will they won't they.
Not cartoon related, but what I love about the comedy show The Nanny was they resolved the Maxwell/Fran relationship and still kept the show going after they got together. Most shows would end it there because the writers run out of ideas.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Didn't expect one of childhood's favourite live-action shows to be brought up here but I agree 100%. Their dynamic was just as funny after they actually got married (I still remember their wedding episode to this day, with their banter when she fell off the boat)
If danny and valerie had been endgame, it actually would have been a nice subversion and make perfect sense for their characters. Butch Fartman just wouldn't know a healthy relationship if it beat him over the brain with a frying pan
Great video as always! I've never thought about this before but while watching you talk about Danny and Valerie I realized how simular their dynamic is to Jake Long and Rose from American Dragon. I would really love your take on them as well because I feel like they are what Danny and Valerie could have been. Jake and Rose are one of my favourite animated couples, along with Robin and Starfire from Teen Titans.
Because the writers of American Dragon actually took the time to build Jake and Rose's relationship and make it feel like we were watching a genuine love story with stakes, chemistry, connection and sacrifice.
What Jake and Rose have...that's love.
What Sam and Danny have is really nothing more than hormones. Yeah they have a good friendship and connection which while necessary for a good foundation to your relationship it never felt deeper than that. It could have been but it wasn't.
I was thinking the same thing.
Honestly, I have more memories playing with a Mario Kart Double Dash toy as a child than the moments with Danny & Sam.
When I was in high school, I ended up dating my best friend since elementary school. We'd had people ship us for years and it kinda just made sense. It felt like the endgame. Only, I didn't have feelings for them. I just saw so much media where your childhood best friend is your true love that I thought that was just how it was supposed to be. So we dated, and it went horribly because it felt forced. And our friendship was never the same afterwards. So yeah, it's a bit of a tired trope.
The Danny and Sam relationship might be one of the biggest examples of why the whole trend of "main couple can't get together until the end of the series" that happened so often for the longest time was such a bad idea. They made it clear by like the midpoint of Season 1 that the two of them absolutely had a thing for each other, then did basically nothing with it until Season 3 where even my child self who loved the ship thought they were way too heavy handed. And it might not have been as bad if they'd just gotten together a lot sooner? Or at the very least, given a reason why they didn't act on their feelings?
I remember watching Danny phantom in my teens and even back then ,Sam and Danny getting together felt boring or kinda half-a$$. Danny and Valerie was just so clean cut and straight forward.
I was never a fan of childhood friends to lovers, just because you’ve known each other for many years doesn’t mean you should have a romantic relationship with each other. Some relationships are just meant to be platonic.
unless they happened to actually like each other romantically at the start of there childhood. than SOMEONE have to make a move soon as teens or adults. because alot of people are not waiting.
@@rickydiscord7671 true, but at some point one of the two would realize that the wait isn’t worth and probably finds someone better.
“I’m slut for villain hero romances “ best line of the video
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID WHAT WE WERE ALL THINKING😩
Danny Phantom is everything to me. I adore this show and it's fandom. Hell I'm one the many ppl who loves the most popular and most shippy episode in the series "Fanning The Flames"
I always found it odd how s2 and most of s3 stopped ship stuff so early on. I wanted it to happen but it didn't feel right
I completely agree with you. That's what has bothered me about this series from the beginning.
Besides, I don't think Danny and Sam make a good couple at all in the first place.
I could have even tolerated all the issues listed here if Danny had ended up with Valerie instead. Not only would it have been a surprising twist, but it would also send a good message to the audience that life doesn't always go as expected/planned.
Ha! Joke's on you! That theme song lives rent-free in my head and replays almost every day 😊
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
danny and valerie was the best relationship in the show. I hope the danny phantom graphic novel improves the relationship with danny and sam
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
This was such a fun show back in the day. I loved hearing your take on the ship! I was wondering if you had ever considered doing a breakdown of the ships in Codename: Kids Next Door. There's so many and all of them give different vibes and mature at different rates imo. Just an idea. :)
I had never realized as a kid how little fleshing out Danny/Sam had! I think, because I was young, it was just kind of cute to see them blush and whatnot, but I also knew that Valerie was a much better option :/ So sad how that turned out lol
This was honestly my ship as a kid 😅. Fanning the flames was one of my favorite episodes
Same, i mean, i still do, just that i wish it was written better. 🥲
@@violettshy absolutely
THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING HOW MUCH OF A BETTER MATCH VAL WAS
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
It wouldn't surprise at all if Maddie came from a rich family(Jack likely didn't because he was born and raised in a log cabin) and she inherited their money after they died so it would explain why she and Jack didn't need real jobs.
I wish Val and Danny could work but I'm still happy that they had at least a small time for happiness. Also she had some of the best reactions like when she got unmasked and was so damn flustered mwah~ chefs kiss that is definitely a rational reaction from someone in her age group to have with this double life stuff.
"This is the best worst example of will they won't they BS."
*me a warrior cats fan:* heh heh heh heh ah ha ha ha ha AH HA HA HA HA HAAHAHAHAHA AHHHHHHHH.
ohhhhhh.
H O N E Y Danny/Sam is TAME compared to THAT realm. But in all seriousness, yeah Danny/Sam I never really liked, cause I saw it was SUPER obvious. Just straight from the get go. I was like "oh they're best friends? Have been through a lot together? Yeah they're gonna get together by the end." And I do think Valerie might be better for Danny, but in all honesty, Danny has some THINGS to work on with himself before he could ever be in a relationship let's be honest. His self esteem for one, his hero complex for two, and stubbornness and lack of communication skills. I just never really BOUGHT Danny himself being able to be in a relationship, and NOT just because of the whole "he's a hero they can never have a happy ending" thing, but because him being a hero, THAT'S what makes him happy. Kind of a "they're married to the job" thing. Not "they're suffering because of the job" thing.
Are you talking about Firestar and sandstorm?
@@newthejsterjacob408 that's actually one of the better Warrior Cat ships.
I'm talking about Squirrelflight and Bramblestar. That's straight toxic.
@@TheRibottoStudios honestly it’s been so long since I’ve read those books I barely remember thatc
I hope he does Jake Long X Rose shipping video since the dynamic is similar to Danny Fenton X Valerie ship. Also Fred X Daphne for another Halloween shipping video.
I never shipped them literally at all, it felt like they were two friends who everyone else thought were dating because apparently why else would you have a guuuuurrll in the show I guess until finally the rhetoric got to them too. Like, none of their “chemistry” felt remotely organic, which considering just how crunchy Sam is feels like an issue.
I know I’m a broken record at this point but THANK DANA FOR LUMITY. Actual character and relationship progression, you understand what, why and how the characters mean to each other and most important they don’t cock-a-doodle tease us for 3 seasons for an off screen kiss. Praise Dana, Praise the Titan, Praise Lumity
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember as you do that putting Jesus Christ’s lessons into practice in your own life is what makes it all click. Forgiveness is the key. Genuinely meaning it from within your heart. Start with your parents, they’ve loved you, they’re easiest. Also, there’s spiritual significance there that is really important. You must look inside, process your emotions, and forgive. That combined with the reading is what makes it all click.
Amity is Dana's self-insert and Lumity was lesbians for the sake of having lesbians.
@@Ability-King-KK I think Luz would be Dana’s self insert as both are Bi and have a dead father. And them being gay isn’t the point I made, I’m saying that I love they actually showed them being a genuine couple and not waste our time with will they won’t they trash
@@casualfanatic4217 eh I’m not interested in that show but lumity is interesting, honestly thought they would pull “random event caused girlfriend to die trope” they usually do those for shock value. Heh nice to know that has not been a shitshow like other cartoon relationships.
@@casualfanatic4217 as good as Lumity is, I honestly have a few issues with it. One is Luz's tendency to lie and hide things from Amity. And the show doesn't address that at all. I know that they don't have much time, but I feel like tge show DOES'T want to address it. Another one is that they never fight, even when Luz almost abandoned Amity. I am just waiting for a problem that they can't solve with talking. Also this might be just me, but they are too sweet.
I kinda wish they went into the “Hermione and Ron” direction with Sam and Tucker….
Agreed! That would’ve been *WAY* more interesting