What Happened? - Interview with the Historical Advisor for Napoleon
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- In this interview we discuss the making of Ridley Scott's Napoleon with the film's historical advisor, Dr. Lorris Chevalier. While there is certainly much to criticize when it comes to the movie's depiction of history, we will moreso be focused on the behind the scenes process for how history becomes adapted to cinema. Below are our conversation timestamps:
00:00:00 Intro
00:02:03 Being a Historical Advisor
00:15:29 Creating the Napoleon Movie
00:28:58 A Typical Day
00:40:24 Napoleon
00:59:11 The Marshals
01:04:30 Josephine
01:11:59 Battle of the Pyramids
01:16:40 Austerlitz
01:25:23 Russia
01:27:29 Missing Battles
01:30:25 Waterloo
01:34:31 Sniper
01:44:51 Depiction of Combat
01:56:04 St. Helena
A huge thank you to Dr. Lorris Chevalier for having this discussion with us!
#history
#napoleon
#documentary
Thanks for Dr. Lorris Chevalier for joining us to discuss how the sausage was made. I'm really hoping that our True Size series can eventually help inform more historically accurate depictions of military history
Great to get him on. But he hardly covers himself in glory. No experience of the industry, no evidence of expertise in the era, I'm amazed he took the job as he was not qualified (it should not have been offered to him in fairness).
He sold integrity for money, not the first nor the last.
If you ever feel unappreciated, remember that this film had a historic advisor.
Listen to him, and you will find out why that didn't mean much.
@@KaiHonsou That's exactly his point
It escapes me, how Medieval Ph.D. gets You appointment on era of 18-th19th century. Why not top notch scholar like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mikaberidze or if You want to play cool for kids choose still somebody knowledgeable like czcams.com/video/mPPYPljxQ68/video.html Movie was miserable from historical point of view and mainly bad, because military practice of these day was really very different... The movie is a bad English propaganda, evil Napoleon, while the real motive was power struggle between England and France over Europe. Even without Napoleon those wars would happened... It's called long history long durée try to look it up even if You don't know French.
If the Braveheart one is still around, I'd love to see them comparing notes.
Over bottles of vodka (the true drink for depressed people)
@@bobs_toys I want to see a picture of the 2 of them standing in the cold looking in a window where the guy who did Greyhound is enjoying a warm meal with his loving family lol. Like 2 unloved mutts sitting in a shed while the Shiba Inu gets to snuggle on a doggy bed inside :)
-"Napoleon was 27 in Toulon, and Josephine was 6 years older than him"
-"Got ya, 47 and his wife was like half his age. Couldn't it without you man."
🤣🤣🤣👍
um actually that was historically accurate, he divorced Josephine due to a lack of an heir when he was 40 before aiming for younger wives so he could get children
@Warriornoob615 I guess reading comprehension isnt your strong suit huh
@@Warriornoob615 bruh
@@Warriornoob615 Come again?
The film is widely ridiculed here in France as wildly anti-historical and Anglo-centric.
Not surprised, Hollywood should be embarrassed
I'm British, and I love history, if your going to make a biopic of a historical figure, do it right. Napoleon is without question one of the greatest military minds in history. as well as being massively influential on the development of Europe. Bloody yanks. their short history is the only thing they put any effort into
As it is everywhere...
@PershingOfficial no Ridley Scott should be
It’s not great even for us, completely ignoring Trafalgar, the entire Peninsular war and somehow making Waterloo boring.
Damn. The film ignored this poor dude more than my wife ignores me when her boyfriend comes over
Lol. I'm single so can't relate
bruh
I wish my wife had a bf it would save me a job
Oof, should have become religious and gotten a religious marriage.
@@crashtestdummy2337 like this is not happening to even religious people.
was moved when Lorris said "I'm involved in Egyptology, and Napoleon created Egyptology. To shoot the Pyramids was painful".
Should’ve been the point he walked off the set for good. Presumably really needed the money.
@@collectivesartori honestly, I wouldn't blame him for staying. It's Ridley after all.
@@YiannissB. some people say “everyone has their price”. I’m not completely convinced.
@@collectivesartori He may have also been under contract. Just up and leaving could have opened him up to something. And everyone needs to make a living. I doubt the guy makes a fortune every other month of the year.
@@collectivesartoriwhy should he have walked off the set tho, its not like Joaquin has any principles or anything...
He's friends with ridley, ridley have him one of his biggest roles ever in one of the most successful movies ever made.
Joaquin knows nothing about Napoleon, he didint even know how to portray him in the first place, as far as he was concerned he didint give two flying ducks about it, easy paycheck and a chance to hang out with an old senile friend while doing kinky stuff with a woman 15yrs his junior, he probably had a blast doing it.
But yeah the movie is probably the worst ridley film in yrs and that's saying alot.
This is eerily similar to the historical advisor for Mel Gibson's The Patriot. At one point, Jason Isaacs even asked why they bothered to bring the advisor there, and the guy said that he thought so that Mel Gibson could say that they have a historical advisor for his movie.
It's similiar case here, for sure...
It's so they can go on press junkets and say things like 'Oh our advisor Rick helped us on the fight scenes and he was just amazing' and then you talk to Rick and he's like 'They asked me one question and I don't think they even listened to my reply' lol.
Except The Patriot was actually a good movie despite its inaccuracies. Ridley Scott literally didn't even try to make a cohesive story.
@@texas_rubyranger9304 Agree the big fail with this movie is it wasn't fun like his other epics or Gibson's. He just made a dour movie about a guy who he paints as eternally dour (he wasn't) and there's no wit or memorable highs contrasted with lows.
I would've been just fine if Josephine was a character in this that was only ever mentioned by name. So things like the Battle of the Pyramids doesn't get truncated so he can go back and have awkward coitus and make us all watch and hate it.
I can't believe he wanted to call this movie 'Kitbag' at one point like it was all about the rise and fall of this lowly officer to greatness but I can see why he saw that as a bit of a tall ask.
Only the Patriot is a good movie, Napoleon is absolute garbage
So, in other words, Ridley Scott hired a bunch of people who wouldn't disagree with him (no offense, Dr. Chevalier-- it's part of the job), who didn't specialize in the field (though I'm sure Dr. Chevalier did an exceptional job with his research), got him to focus on the relationship rather than the character or events, and said "don't tell me when I'm doing something inaccurate." Yep, I think we can see why the film ended up the way it did.
I’m at 11:29 and that’s exactly what I heard. He said he is a mediaevalist and Napoleon wasn’t his specialty and he just understood the relationships and mindset of a person. That is wild to go with that over the events. Made Napoleon the opposite of what he was. That’s like making Joe Biden the personality of Trump lmao 🤣
Ridley Scott sounds like an asshole
the fact that Ridley Scott has fired a number of Historical Advisors for correcting him and "slowing" down the movie making process is WILD
@@AniTube-ds8uz remember when the credits roll for any movie it takes two songs. That’s money that was spent. They need to trim the fat because all the extra didn’t help. Hired about 20 HA and the movie ended up not even being close to historic. Just the name a land names of battles.
"(no offense, Dr. Chevalier-- it's part of the job)"
It really fucking isn't.
The fact that they hired someone focusing on Medieval history instead of Napoleon points to how much they cared about historical accuracy.
Agreed. Well said.
Yeah he was working with Ridley on Last duel and was hired again, yet he's pretty well informed about Napoleon. Check the part were he gave tips Phoenix during the coronation scene. He knows stuff.
While I kind of a agree, I think my take from this interview is, that this wasn't by far the main problem of this film, and having had a "genuine" Napoleon scholar in that advisor position would likely not have managed to make it any less bad.
@@domsjuk absolutely. Lorris could've a good enough job, or a great one even. But a ship runs on the Captain's commands; If Riddley says "Give Ney a beard" you do it.
He basically hired him because he knew the guy from the last movie.
I don’t envy the position this guy was put in.
He got paid for basically doing nothing, though
@@derrickstorm6976 for taking the fall and being ignored aggressively by the director, that is still deserving of pity
So as I. Historical accuracy vs Directors Vision, where vision wins.
I do. He got paid
He put himself in it.
Hearing Lorris Chevalier's perspective both impressed me and made me sad, because he's obviously very knowledgeable and enthusiastic about Napoleonic history [even though it wasn't his subject originally], but he's also, at least in my opinion a GIANT yesman.
The way he talks about his personal relationship with Ridley Scott and the importance of "working your elbows" [rubbing elbows], the way he mostly refuses to criticize a film that was OBVIOUSLY, in hindsight, a disaster in terms of historicity and deflects, whenever criticism is offered, towards [shoddy] narrative framing, the way he pumps up the film and the little moments where individual actors and production designers demonstrated interest in the history despite the fact that none of that is reflected in the film itself... he acts like he's still in denial about how this film turned out.
Like... the film overall was a disaster, but the color of Josephine's dog was right, and he's just so happy about that! He reminds us, at the beginning, that Ridley Scott fired tons of historical advisors before settling Chevalier, who he has stuck with ever since and... it's not hard to see why. He's a YESMAN. He was so proud to talk about how Ridley Scott wanted to give him a Christmas gift, like any of that matters, and it makes me sad because it demonstrates the kind of historian that Hollywood wants.
I'm not blaming Chevalier. He's clearly a very competent historian, but he was steamrolled by Hollywood, and transformed into something a prop himself, it would seem.
Ridley Scott isn't really Hollywood, he's always done his own thing his own way he just started a "trend" so to say that others have been tyring to imitate he himself included, so don't blame Hollywood on this one
Strong and competent people get rolled by Hollywood, not spineless yesmen
But what could he do? Nothing. This is the real role of historical advisor in Hollywood, unfortunately.
Historians barely get payed, they often take these jobs knowing they are purely PR so they can keep the lights on. When I was looking into university every archaeology department pretty much said that, they get so little university money they usually have to compete to get archaeology contracts for public works
How did you interpret the first 15 minutes of the interview? He, I think pretty clearly, explained how historical advisors will just lose control of the authenticity of the movie completely if they insist on fighting the director/crew on everything.
Maybe he could have done a better job, but the “job”, unsurprisingly, is to gently nudge the film in the right direction, and be easy to work with. There is not a job on earth that does not require some type of “yes man” behavior. I don’t see how anyone can blame this guy.
Ya his defense of stuff in the movie is incorrect and bullshit. He’s a yes man trying to get hired for another gig
I loved his comment about if a painter wants to stick a space snip in the middle of his painting he will. I think that summarizes everything perfectly.
What happened is people insanely believed that the guy who made Gladiator and Kingdom of Heaven was even slightly interested in telling historical biopics. He makes movies that he thinks are going to be blockbusters and he's not even right about what works half the time. This is the movie where I lost the last bit of respect I had for him as a filmmaker. Guy think's he's so smart and all of his historical changes suit his blockbuster-first mentality and this time it finally blew up in his face. And THANK GOD it did. Surely this will prevent him from telling a WW2 documentary that spends 2/3 of the runtime on Eva Braun.
Yea he thinks he is a genius director
@@fellington2398 In one sense he is a genius; shot composition and execution. Guy never makes ugly or poorly made films. But the stories were never the strong suit. IMO he's a poor judge of what a compelling story is and he's just sort of rolled the dice correctly on it a few times.
Better delete this before he sees it 😭
Ridley is a perfect director, in the sense that he is precisely as good as his scripts. He is a clear pane of glass onto the script. Blade Runner and Napoleon are perfect expressions of the Blade Runner and Napoleon scripts. The caveat is the director can often control\accept
eject the script. The inaccuracy of Napoleon is inherent in the script. Even Phoenix's acting as an uncharismatic leader, takes its cue from what's in the script. Still Ridley's fault, but his faults as a director are that limited.
Still don't know why he hired a scriptwriter with some lukewarm movies. Were they pals or something? Do you really think Napoleon would say "You think you are so great because you have boats". Just sounds like a cringey joke. Sometimes I think the movie is more of a comedy while I was watching.
I am working on a relatively serious board game about Napoleonics. i.e. I am obsessed with Napoleon and read surely 3000 pages of research to make the boardgame what I envisioned (on top of whatever else I read on Napoleonics in the first 50 years of my life). I was SURE I would go see this movie. Since its release and discovering the crazy interpretation and inaccuracies, I have refused to see it and have told my father and brother to avoid it as well. When I saw Napoleon leading a cavalry charge, skewering Allied soldiers, and heard someone yelling "Over the top!" in the Waterloo scene, I was DONE even considering whether I should see the movie. Seems to me that the 1981 Time Bandits movie representation of Napoleon was entirely more rewarding than this Ridley Scott version would be. XD
Had an interest in Napoleon since I was a kid. I will never watch this stupid movie. Every success with the board game, my friend.
What board game?
I was looking forward to seeing Napoleon in theaters but decided not to after the awful reviews. I subscribe to Apple TV+, mostly to watch the very good Masters OF The Air. Since the theatrical version of Napoleon will be available without paying extra on March 1, I will probably watch it then from the comfort of my home. Maybe I will make fun of it like an episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000.
Tell the name of the board game :) ?
As a big fan of Napoleon I’d recommend reading it cause I audibly gasped and laughed out loud at some of the dialogue
My takes:
+ They chose an advisor only for the relationship with Josephine.
+ The script was fully created in advance without the advisor's input, who influenced only details during shooting and actors' prep. (You can find online an interview with the writer scarpa where he "details" how much he "documented" himself.)
+ The historical topics in which Scott has knowledge show that his perspective is British ethnocentrism; and as any kind of ethnocentrism, it's compatible only with immature, shallow and preconceived interpretations of history.
I think what happened is they hired the historical advisor, locked him in a cleaning closet for those 2 years, and then let him out after they wrapped filming
The "Battle for Austerlitz" part makes me wonder if the director is a "Total War" player, because IRL battles in the age with no Electrical communications, you can't command a whole army in a battlefield from a distance with just shouting.
It looked like an anime fight
No he’s just (at this point) an idiot with too much power and too much money.
Depending on the time and place in history the were many systems such as flags or musical instruments
@@masonclark531 Hannibal would station himself not far behind the frontline and have messengers on horses constantly going back and forth between the battlefield
Dr. Chevalier, thank you for being so upright and honest to present yourself in this forum. It’s especially courageous of you because the movie is so historical as it is. How totally and utterly unnecessary this is seems to me best represented by your anecdote of the sniper and the sniperscope at the Waterloo sequence. Director Scott seems to have insisted on this for just sensational reasons. Same goes for the bombardment of the pyramids. If you wanted to represent Napoleon’s skill as an artillerist, do so with the Siege of Toulon! 🤔
It's the Hollywood equivalent of an anime in an historical setting. They'll painstakingly draw the architecture and clothes to be period correct; but then have wacky shit happen that defies logic and/or physics to make the main characters look cool.
He essentially says ‘the first thing I had into do was sell out, and once I did that for Mr Ridley, everything went fine’.
Well, if the film is going be a trash fire, you might as well get paid for standing next to it.
This movie was S H I T E, and about as factually accurate as Braveheart
And yet Braveheart was at least fun to watch [edit] as an action comedy film
Mel Gibson was never good with historical accuracy. Regardless,
The Patriot and Braveheart are old favorites of mine, for all their flaws.
They got me interested in the time periods at least.
@CocoAsticot a huge amount of that film is focused on badly done romance and its not exactly what I'd call a good comedy film. There's like maybe fifteen minutes of action in the whole thing
@@hugovandyk9918 Gibson actually did some great historic films. We were soldiers is almost perfect
At least Braveheart didn't feel like it was mocking its subject matter. Fiction yes. Mockery, no. Napoleon was several times worse than Braveheart
"If history is deprived of the truth you are left with nothing but a lie"
Ridley Scott has now made millions of people remember the battle of Austrrelitz as a lie
This is why it’s so hard for Hollywood to get historical advisors, most experts in a particular field wouldn’t even entertain an offer from a guy like Scott. They know better than to get pulled into that world of cultivating relationships over telling the truth in the first place. For historians, the only way to win Hollywood’s game, is to not play.
What the advisor's job was on the set: "well I was the only historian that wasn't fired, so I shuttled a celebrity around Paris, I did some spell checking, and the rest of the time I was just sitting there being ignored". yeah, no wonder the film turned out the way it did
And (probably) drinking a lot of coffee and enjoying the sun.
Ive never seen such a well prepared and structured Interview on YT! Well done.
Ridley Scott happened. There, saved you 2 hours😂
Hey now. You weren't at Waterloo. Ridley Scott was.
OH YEAH
@@Zhohan- Hey Kool-Aid!
I think the part that bothers me most is that the history was more interesting than what was fictionalized in the movie. If Scott was going to exercise artistic license, at least make the story more interesting than the real one. Which leads me to believe the movie was about painting Napoleon as an archetype for toxic masculinity, serving as a straw man rather than saying something meaningful about the character. Anyone watching this film without historical knowledge will walk away thinking, "wow, that's all Napoleon was? What was the big deal about this loser?" And that's a tragedy given he was one of the most important figures of the millennium.
This. I don't mind inaccurate movies if they're entertaining. I don't mind irreverent portrayals of so-called Great Men, but this was just character assassination. It's impossible to believe that Scott had any interest in Napoleon at all. Good movies can be made about bad people. This wasn't one of them.
@@Oxtocoatl13 Downfall painted a more sympathetic and humanized portrait of Hitler than Ridly Scott's film did of Napoleon. Think of that!
When you've somehow managed to make a character less sympathetic than Adolf Hitler (when they were objectively a better person), you've really screwed the pooch. This outcome shouldn't be a surprise to anyone however when you have Scott grouping Napolean into the same league as people like Hitler, Stalin, and Mao in interviews prior to the film's release.
@@DovahFett That's true. This film is so laser focused on not ever portraying Napoleon in any kind of positive light that he comes across as a complete caricature. It's like Downfall where Hitler is the one from Inglorious Basterds. Everyone else behaves like they're in a serious historical epic and then there's this one dude who spends his time being cuckolded by his wife and yelling to the British in impotent rage. What baffles me most is that they also never show any of Napoleon's many crimes. The only villanous things he does in the movie is how he treats his wife.
Like Kubrick once said, "There's never been a great movie about Napoleon" - sadly 50 years later, we are stuck with this Ridley's version of the film
We have Waterloo
not a great movie, entertaining, but it only covers his exile and waterloo@@hermanoguimaraes6343
The movie Waterloo is amazing
Also Napoleon (1927)
Yeah.....what the fuck happened, I almost walked out at the Waterloo scene
I did walk out
Before he ever charged lol
i allegedly piated it
I love Napoleon. When Ridley dropped him dead in the end on that chair outside on St. Helena, I burst out laughing in the cinema. Fuck you Ridley Scott.
I felt a pang of sadness as I left the theatre. The history was being defiled and twisted before my eyes.
12:54 "Don't bother me with shit." The ego of that man...
Final quote of the Dr.Chevalier was "The more you know about Napoleon the less you love the movie" (c) - Great Job mr. Spilberg!
I can't imagine having to explain to someone that I was the historical advisor on Napoleon. Ouch.
That being said, excellent video!
There needs to be a post end credit scene where Joachim Phoenix plays a patient in a mental hospital who awakens, revealing that everything the audience just witnessed was his fevered but lucid dream of himself imagining he was Napoleon. At least it would explain the historical inaccuracies, weird time jumps, and other anomalies.
Great prequel to the Joker.
The only accurate period pieces Scott ever made were Blake Hawk Down bc the Army wouldn't supply the props and training without it respecting the actual events, and to some degree the Deulists simply bc a few props and dates are hard to ruin. It isn't 2000 anymore, people have access to information like never before and "Gladiator" won't fly anymore.
Remember in black hawk down the enemy is completly dehumanized and fails to show the immense casualties of civilians and rebels in comparison to the miniscule loss of life by the NATO troops
@@reeyees50 Black hawk Down also consistently portrays the Americans as more professional, surgical and efficient than they really were. Which, considering the film came out just as the USA was discussing whether to invade Iraq, can be seen as pure government propaganda.
@Oxtocoatl13 no its pretty spot on.
@@CMP-st5wh In many respects, yes, but there also inaccuracies and omissions. For one, in the beginning of the film, when the Americans arrest a Somali financier, they make a big deal of stopping his car with a single bullet through the engine, fired by a sniper. In real life, they riddled the car with bullets, killing and wounding several people.
For another example, towards the end of the film, as the Americans are hunkered down in a house surrounded by enemies, one of them heroically goes out and throws a strobe light to the enemy position, allowing for helicopters to destroy it with accuracy. In real life, the Americans lit their own positions with strobe lights and the helicopters destroyed whatever wasn't marked as a friendly position.
The film also completely leaves out the Abdi House Raid, which is the reason why everyone in Mogadishu hated the UN forces, despite them being ostensibly there to help them. Not to mention the film mostly leaves out the Pakistani and Malaysian troops who, according to survivors, were critical to the extraction of American troops and also suffered casualties in the heavy fighting.
All of these are fairly small inaccuracies, but they're consistent in presenting the American military as more elite and surgical, and the war in Somalia as cleaner and more morally black-and-white than it really was.
@@Oxtocoatl13 I've never walked away from that film with the thought that the conflict in Somalia was "elite and surgical". It was a complete mess in reality, and it comes off as a complete mess in the film. The changes you point out do nothing to alter that tone.
This is what happens when The Joker becomes Emperor of France
When did Heath Ledger become Napoleon?
And I'm tired of pretending like it's not.
All the historical misrepresentation of the movie wasn‘t Joaquin Phoenix‘s fault. He’s great and versatile actor! It all seemed to have happened at the whim of the director and a bad script by an inexperienced, ill-informed writer 🤨
@@marcusmohr9827 No argument there he's an excellent actor even if he's in a few movies I don't like. Signs, before you ask. I hate Signs lol.
@@marcusmohr9827 don't forget ridley Scott drinks a lot
France is angry and disappointed but I can tell you Italy didn't like this film either. All the wars, politics, and history Napoleon went through in the Italian territories were entirely cut and summed up in a sentence that went like "...and then Italy surrendered" (as if the unified country of Italy existed at the time). It's a pity because Napoleon's relationship with his Italian roots would have been interesting to explore, and the Italian campaigns are when he really went from being an unknown general to an established figure and where his myth really started.
Merci Julien et l'equipe d'Invicta pour ce superbe format. Peu importe notre opinion sur le film, c'est toujours fascinant de découvrir ce qu'il s'est passé dans la tête des gens qui font ces films. J'espère qu'un jour ils feront appel à vous pour une production historique!
Ridley Scott is known for going off the historical rails with his own opinions and 'artistic vision', Kingdom of heaven had similar problems.
He also doesn't like French people
Gladiator is a story written by someone who got an A+ in creative writing class but failed history. That's his thing.
I suppose we should also thank Mel Gibson for proofing the formula for industry use.
I love Gladiator and I love the director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven. In both movies, I didn't mind the "artistic vision" diverting from History, sometimes a lot, because it was done for the sake of telling a good story. In Napoleon, there is no artistic vision, it's just a mess.
@@karljohan3989 At least in those movies it's about a protagonist hero.
There's no heroics or great words of wisdom in this film it's just an exercise in making Napoleon look difficult and unready and subdued by everything in his path.
It's almost miraculous that he wins the battles he's supposed to win in this movie. Or that they even showed his wins or his rise to power at all. Because it sure didn't look like they were interested in any of his upsides.
Everything about this production tells me the film should have started in Borodino and been about nothing but his downfall and the 100 days. Especially casting Joaquin. If you want to sour the audience and make them sad about that part of history you only need to tell that part; no need to waste half the film on Josephine and an Indiana Jones conquering montage.
@@karljohan3989 Ancient History and the medieval era had limited sources so he’s got more room to have more artistic creativity and a bit more acceptable. But this, with more sources….. what’s the point of having a advisor if going the opposite direction.
Thank you for the great interview, it explained a lot.
Thank you Julien and Dr. Chevalier for doing this concise and substantive overview of the movie and its historicity!
That you for doing this I was really interested in hearing this
Really well prepared presentation. Kudos.
I am quite struck that the advisor thinks he was depicted as the Great Man. Most people saw it as a hit piece and this being Tolstoys Napoleon.
Definitely. This version of Napoleon could have been a serviceable villain for a movie about someone more interesting. The fact that there were basically no other characters just put him under a spotlight and gave him far too much screen time.
It was like Napoleon had debilitating autism
I've been waiting for an interview like this on the film. What did he think of the sword fight at the end between Boney and Welly? Ridley Scott at his finest!
I am not surprised Scott fires historical advisors when they point out issues. His movies are less historically accurate then game of thrones. Scott is someone I consider a true enemy of public history.
Your restraint shown here, Mr Invicta, is beyond impressive. The movie is pure travesty. But it looks nice.
excellent interview, well done
Great interview!
Seems to me that the 1981 Time Bandits movie representation of Napoleon was entirely more rewarding than this Ridley Scott version would be. XD
sounds like this movie directly competes with Napoleon from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.
As another guy who has worked as a historical advisor for a (domestic) major production, it's quite funny to hear about the exact same things from a more global production.
I spent 4 years working in the project and I can't even imagine trying to squeeze all that experience and all the stories in 2 hours of interview.
"Painting a space ship" story does sound VERY familiar as an experience.... :)
Great interview, these two hours felt two short.
Damn, I know he doesn’t have any effect on the movie made he can just advise but could you imagine how embarrassing it would be to admit that you worked on Napoleon lol
I'll stand up for Lorris on one point. Having a PhD in history means you know how to resesrch history- not just the topic you did your thesis on. So it was good to hear him explain. Ridley gave him one year to research the relationship. Not anything else! Ridley didn't care about anything else. Lorris was just following the brief.
Exactly. The study of history, especially on this level, is the study of research skills, not memorization of facts. I wager that given a year of dedicated, paid time, most people with a Master's or a PhD in history could acquire the knowledge necessary for this kind of project. Of course an expert will have an easier time and get even better results, but still.
This guy is actually French, and this is the Napoleon we got? Incredibly hard to believe.
How much would you have to be paid to watch the longer version?
$200+
I mean, if you're seriously offering, I can give a number...
If it's just hypothetical, then no amount
Imagine the despair of armor historical advisor when he saw the half helmets in The Duel.
Amazing interview
guy is clearly smart as hell but he is a massive yes man so no wonder the movie came out the way it did
What software are you using to lay up that outline?
It's a really helpful software called Miro
@@InvictaHistory Visual project Management component?
@@InvictaHistory Looks great. Great episode, btw. We don't often get to hear a long one on one with a historical advisor and how that flows. Two thumbs up!
I haven't seen this movie. So I don't know what happened. But, I happened to watch the 1970 Waterloo film before the Scotts version was released. Does anyone have input on how both films differ? I can't imagine the movie was that bad. Also , I think people from the 70s were alot more patient and involved than people these days.
Just watch yourself the Scotts version and compare them lol
The 70s version used several thousand Soviet soldiers to physically reenact the battles in fields in Ukraine. And they stayed focused purely on Napoleon returning from Elba, the Coalition reacting and everyone gearing up for Waterloo. They put a lot more effort and skill into it
@@Radovid_V_the_Stern And pay to go see a bad movie? Are you nuts?😜
@@themobileprepper5730 Well, you can wait and watch extended version, when it will be released in internet)
Well, you can glance over wrong dates and year, and the timeline of things, but when the battle of Austerlitz is all concentratet in one valley, and a single forward Attack Mode and the strategic part of that battle abscent. Then you know.. and offcourse Napolen leading a charge in the battle for Waterloo... It was a major let down, especially compared to Waterloo (1970)
When Chevalier says he would not have put Napoleon barraging the pyramids he's trying to have his cake and eat it. His name is on movie, this is the only Napoleon movie he's worked on. By not threatening to resign or literally throwing himself in front of the camera, Chevalier approved of putting it in the movie.
I mean, would you risk getting fired over a bad creative choice by your boss, who gets to make those choices anyway? This was his job and livelihood, not some high-minded matter of honor. He was the historical advisor, his role is to give advise. He is not responsible if that advice is ignored or never asked for.
That's literally what an ADVISOR does, they give ADVICE. His job was to advise the director, it's not his job to make the decisions. If he quit right there the movie would still have been made, but even less historically accurate. He would have lost his job, still had his name in the credits as an advisor, and someone else would have gotten the job of being ignored instead. The mere fact that he chose to do this interview and make his existence known is telling because he didn't have to come out and interact with the people who were ripping the historical accuracy. What he's saying is that Scott is notorious for firing advisors that get in his way, and that he did the best he could because getting fired would mean he couldn't have had any positive impact on the movie at all.
@@restitvtororbis5330 I don't know, 11% accurate vs. 8%accurate isn't a big leap, and they really could have put his salary towards a better screenwriter to clean up the dogshit script.
The Napoleon movie aside, should really be mentioned that Chevalier's expertise really shines through on The Last Duel. The best part of that movie is that the characters' morals and beliefs feel truly rooted in a medieval mindset, which is much more important for historical representation than sets, costumes, and specific events.
I know the feeling I was one of the historical advisors on the Mel Gibson film set in Vietnam. The production team basically ignored everything we submitted
Being a historical advisor on any Hollywood production must be mildly frustrating a lot of the time. The rest of the time it must be really frustrating.
This guy seems quintessentially french.
doesn't sound like one though. he puts an effort
Doesn't act like one either... The movie got roasted in France for its obvious pro-British propaganda biais.
If so why did he betray French history?
Seriously Napoleons own brother in law, Murat, didn't even get screen time.
This is amazing that you've been able to get an interview with the historical advisor of a mainstream big-budget historical blockbuster, i know we're all frustrated with this film but you've really set yourself apart from almost all other videos on the subject by being able to ask people involved with the film itself. Of course we know that someone like Ridley Scott will never interview anyone who isn't smitten by him and brown-nosing him like most online interviews are nowadays with these robotic studio-puppet interviewers ahead of a film's promotional run.
24:47 “You think you’re better because you have boats!” was actually exactly what Napoleon said back then.
Boaty McBoatface was the flagship!
While I think this guy was a decent enough pick for historical advisor, I however think Ridley didn't switch to a more period advisor, because he already knew this guy wouldn't push back to hard about inaccuracies! I think using the obviously wrong equipment, places, characters and other inaccuracies simply for easy of filming or to push an idea is a little bit of a cop out, I have seen many productions that try to keep as much accuracy as possible and we're good films, historical pieces should have real history in them!
13:15 I love lindybeige’s vidoes to death but this story seems very believable, he is what’s you would call a very unique character
I have a hard time understanding his pronounciation. At first I thought he was talking about lindybeige being an advisor on Troy. But I don't think that's what he meant rather that lindybeige told this story before.
This is hearsay, so maybe it wasn't related exactly as it happened, but it was telling when Scott said he wanted to depict "the first sniper in history" in that scene. I don't have an issue with the scene as an homage to Waterloo or as a way of showing that the coalition was at war not with France but with an individual. And maybe I'm reading too much into it, but if Scott's motivation was also to depict "the first sniper in history," it shows the completely different conception of history that a powerful director with an unrestrained vision has compared to a historian or lover of history.
For many of us, "the first sniper in history" would be a specific historical figure, whether we actually know who he is or not. History is the actual record of human events, and this is part of it. We might be interested in finding out who that was, and when and where, and what technological developments made it possible, etc. And if we said, "you know, I would like to make a film, or even a little scene in a film about the first sniper in history," we would probably mean that in the sense of depicting, honoring, making note of that person in his context and with those interesting historical contingencies that surrounded it. Or we might compromise as Chevalier wanted to with the Plunkett, who was arguably a first sniper in history, say. And we would be interested in the details of that--the recumbant stance, the skill involved, whatever.
But for Ridley Scott, "the first sniper in history" is the guy he inserts into his "historical" film to be the first sniper in history. "History" means people wearing costumes; Scott's not particularly interested in what actually happened before he was born. What the sniper looks like and uses and does reflects Scott's steampunk fantasy of what that ought to look like, and the purpose is "because I want to because that would be cool and funny." And even though to us getting it right would be cool, and actual historical coincidences can be funny, for him what makes it cool is that he did it and what makes it funny is that he thought "wouldn't it be funny if..." So the sense in which he can depict "the first sniper in history" is ultimately hollow, because tomorrow Steven Spielberg can make a movie about Alexander and staple a rifle scope to a Tyrian archer's bow and depict the new "first sniper in history" at the siege of Tyre.
When Ridley Scott makes a "historical" film, his self-recognized accomplishments as a relator of history are the same as when a dictator creates a new medal to award himself for service to the revolution. He can have the first sniper and be the first to show Napoleon bombarding the pyramids and be the first to show how Napoleon was an incel, to tell the true story, and he can sit in his chair with his chest covered in medals and people can clap for him as long as they're forced to until they aren't anymore and then we can laugh at him like we laugh at some tinpot dictator's ridiculous uniform studded with bottle caps and plastic stars.
1:51:20 This was far from the norm for battles of the era. Most encounters where one unit tried to close with another would result in one side withdrawing before they got to bayonet range... a mosh-pit of soldiers is nearly impossible to command, as well. A formation disintegrating into a chaotic melee is a disaster for a commander.
Before I watched the movie, I had friends, who consider themselves to be history buffs, tell me after they watched it that the movie should have been called "Josephine" rather than Napoleon. After watching it, I kind of agree. Napoleon didn't feel like the main character.
The tragedy is, a really good movie could be made about Josephine, with Napoleon as the abusive husband/antagonist. But that film wouldn't be a grand historical epic with large battles, but more of an indoor costume drama. Scott wanted the big battles but had no interest in Napoleon the man.
A movie originally called Napoleon and Josephine, with a plot centered around Napoleon and Josephine's failed marriage, in which historically Josephine being significantly older was a massive factor - and no one really cares that they cast not just one but two actresses who both look almost half the age of Joaquin Phoenix? That should have been the first thing in the list of things the movie got egregiously wrong.
And yeah, we don't need all the Marshals. But not having Lannes and Murat in a story about Napoleon is unforgivable. Along with his divorce from Josephine, Lannes' death was another factor that coincided with, and possibly contributed to the dramatic change in Napoleon's career .
I think if Josephine was the main character it’d be more interesting
Know how this is going to go before I even watch.
Soo I told them all this stuff and they then ignored me and done there own thing instead 🤦🏻♂️
1:54:33 - Invicta going to Hollywood being foreshadowed.
Thumbs up, this is the most important part of the 2 hour video.
I do feel like your choice of video title contradicts the constraints you introduce in the beginning of the video.
The movie was painful to watch but in any case, this historical advisor has a family name "Chevalier" (Knight) and has a phD in medieval history, it is an incredible conjunction. I wonder if he was influenced by this when he chose his major.
As a Napoleon buff and student of history I tried removing the bias I had towards unhistorical events but some things weren’t acceptable.
1. Napoleon divorces Josephine before Tilsit in 1807 and not after like historically.
2. The underrepresentation of the marshals
3. Borodino scène is Napoleon charging in a Republican uniform against Austrians?!?! [possibly scenes made for Marengo]
4. Napoleon dying
5. As a Belgian I was astonished they used “La muette de Portici” which was the song that mythologically inspired the Belgian revolution of 1830.
The best scene of the movie imo was Toulon when you forget that napoleons horse wasn’t blown up.
Vive l’Empereur!
I suppose it’s more of a structure point than historical accuracy, exactly, but I hate how poorly the movie portrays the passage of time. It makes all of the Coalition Wars feel like a single nonstop event, rather than being quite different conflicts.
It’s almost fun to watch as a historical inaccuracy issue-spotter though.
About Number 3 I was also very confused when I watched the movie. Marengo is also mentioned when they list the battles and casualties in the movie. So it's very likely that Marengo will be part of the 4h long director's cut and seeing that scene in the theater version is a proof that the movie was butchered for the sake of being shown in theaters.
I will not praise a dictator.
Also the argument that Napoleon was the last fighting king is a joke. It’s not because Napoleon as emperor was in command doesn’t need to be shown as him fighting in the thick of battle.
Movie before this one never showed this, look at Waterloo 1970, Austerlitz 1960 and Napoleon 2002 these were historically accurate
@@rick7424 An elected and appointed dictator who was loved by the people and got attacked from all of Europe
In 1815 he even established the liberal empire which was a constitutional monarchy so the best emperor ever
haven't seen Napoleon but remembering too late that in Robin Hood, Ridley Scott "artistically" envisioned the French invasion as some kind of WWII landing operation I probably could've saved 2hrs of this interview :-/
Okay i just can't. Good lord, nothing against this guy personally but, as a Phd in history myself, how in the WORLD did he get hired on this movie?
From his own description he is a MEDIEVAL historian who spent 7 years writing in what sounds like the now largely defunct field of psych-history from the 1990's. So he focused his whole doctoral program trying to understand the mind and worldview of 12th century knights. And then gets hired to advise on a 200 million dollar movie about 18th and 19th century france.
I specialize in late nineteenth and early twentieth century america, i now cannot wait to be hired as an advisor on Hannibal movie coming out in a few years.
Lord almighty, they must have just grabbed the nearest french historian at random for the sole reason of having "historical advisor" in the credits to give the impression they cared at all about history. And if this dude advised on the "mentality" of napoleonic soldiers and the man himself, then he did it wrong.
Ladies and gentlemen, there are thousands of experts in the exact field of revolutionary and napoleonic france, they didn't bother to find one for this movie. What do you think they thought about the importance of history in a historical movie by that fact alone.
You just think your tough because you have boats!
I love History!
“Go along to get along”
So basically the music was accurate/good and nothing else.
I'm suprised the vikings didn't turn up in the film led by Henry the Eigth
They had a historical advisor, I am shocked I just thought they made it up as they went along.
12:37 the directors mentality summarized into one encounter.
Same Bs as Ubisoft though. Why not make a new ip or fictional series rather than pump out the same Hollywood erotica that try’s to use real people.
Anyone who saw Gladiator or Kingdom of Heaven could have no hopes that this film would have next to zero historical merit.
The movie taught me that half of the french generals and nobility were actually dark black. Who would have thought, aside from the google AI.
Strikes me like very intelligent person.
I think a more historically accurate trilogy about Napoleon could have been pretty great.
People have said it in multiple ways in many comments but what I get out of this interview is that Ridley Scott doesn't want a Historical Advisor, and that Chevalier isn't really a historical advisor. He's a "historical yesman" who just gives Scott what he wants to hear and then gives pointers to people working on stuff that Ridley doesn't care about/notice.
When a production wants real in-depth advise, they hire experts specific to the topic/time period and have them working with the writers ewven before they start writing the script.
I hope that Scott stays far away from historical movies and that the doctor ends up working for a project whose leads actually value his expertise and willingness to work hard.
in short Ridley doesnt care, other than get his vision on the screen.. Well, we all knew this after his previous movies, but this time it was so obvious shortcuts and just for the picture moments.. that it became ridicilous.
Nice
speaking of story over history, I see parallels between this poor man and alec guinnes' character in bridge on the river kwai.
Thank you for the inside, and for the content. But it was an horrible job of bringing such historic character to life. Cheers
My biggest grievance was it felt more like a love story than the life of one of the best military minds of history, completely glossed over years of campaigns and he difficult life on the march would have been and the numerous times he won when he should not have. If the run time of the movie was the issue make it a trilogy
Really anticipating the 4 hour cut, perhaps that version will make everyone happier.
Hiring a medieval historian to be an advisor explains the battle sequences lol
*What happened was that people forgot what **_Kingdom of Heaven_** and **_Gladiator_** were: sub-par historical epics directed by a guy who has no business making historical epics.*
The difference is that those two films are entertaining to people who aren't that into history. Both are still beloved epics 20 years later. Napoleon was just a snooze-fest character assassination.
@@Oxtocoatl13 I don't doubt that _King of Heaven_ and _Gladiator_ had their entertaining moments, so long as in each case one kept their brain turned-off until the end of the movie and didn't think too hard about it afterwards.
Sounds like the movie should have been about those marshals if they were the ones who actually cared about historical accuracy