Archie Moore was born December 13, 1913. LH champion Moore moved up in weight to fight Marciano at the age of 41. Imagine if Rocky was 41 and moved up in weight to fight 31yr old Archie? The fallacy that Moore, Walcott and Louis were all prime at 37, 38/39 and 41yrs of age is misleading and scientifically impossible.
"Even in his prime, Rocky Marciano had no chance with me. First thing, he is too little. Less than five foot ten to my six foot three inches. I’d overwhelm him. I’d lay on him in the clinches like a big old grizzly bear, and I’d smother his insides out. He was too small to reach me from out- side. I’d jab him twenty to one. Rocky had a face that cut easily. Can you imagine what my stinging jab would do to those weak eyes? How could he beat me? No way, is how." - Muhammad Ali
44 Marciano opponents: We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good *B-LEVEL* resume. Problem is *he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?* Even Marciano's *best 3 opponents Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times.* Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. *Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat?* Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. *Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?* *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *WAY TOO MANY HOMELESS WALK-IN F-LEVEL BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR EASY $$$ OR BEING FORCED TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET OF BOXING DURING THE 1950s* *EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM* *THEY DIDN'T LITERALLY CONTROL HIM BUT THEY DID TAKE 60% OF ALL HIS EARNINGS AND VERY CAREFULLY PADDED HIS RECORD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE* The *entire* eastern seaboard was *Italian,* it was *all Italian.* Even the commissioner of boxing was Italian. Al Weill, Rocky's *mafioso manager* and *matchmaker* at the Garden *took* 50% and *all ticket sales* which pushed it closer to *60%.* Marciano had *no choice* but to *comply* or *no contract.* Enormous criminal empires had been built on the supply of illegal liquor during the Prohibition era. *Italian* Al Capone’s the most infamous among them. When prohibition came to an end in 1933, after more than a decade of lucrative and bloody endeavour for the Mob, *they needed* something *new.* Access to the machinery of *boxing,* a wilfully unfettered anarchy proved remarkably easy to acquire. *Boxing was now fertile ground for the Mafia.* *They controlled it all,* from the *trainers* and *managers* to the reporting *journalists,* with a combination of *intimidation* and financial backing ensuring *everybody* the mob *wanted* was under *their control.* *THE DAY AFTER RETIREMENT HE IMMEDIATELY ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS*
"186 the best weight i ever fought at , small for a heavyweight," and "sometimes having to take 2 or 3 punches to get one in." -- Rocky Marciano @ The Marciano Tapes #1
*When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs. Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two Super Heavyweight warriors stood toe to toe exhibiting exceptional heart and endurance. Both boxers threw bombs and neither took a backward step.* ("The Tuamanator" would have obliterated light heavyweights Charles-n-Moore and "The President" woulda walked through little Marciano and Walcott as if they were invisible.) Marciano was good during his little post war era three generations ago but he would not be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to: Undefeated 263lb Makhmudov Undefeated 248lb Sanchez Undefeated 247lb Hrgovic Undefeated 245lb Anderson Undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few. And then there's so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to: Lewis Bowe Vitali Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Holmes Ali Foreman Liston Tyson Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Parker Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney Wilder *I could "easily" list another Twenty-Five!!!*
Too many Rocky fans *don't do a deep drive into examining his career. That magical 49-0 is the shiny coin so many can not see beyond.* LaStarza was one of Marciano's best opponents, he was 37-0. How many of y'all *actually studied the 37 guys LaStarza fought?* Well *here they are:* We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.* #37) Cesar Brion - 49 wins 11 losses with 36% KOs *C-LEVEL* looks okay until ya *see how many of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians* Walter Hafer - 22 wins 26 losses with 26% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jackie Lyons - 32 wins 24 losses with 23% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Carollo - 36 wins 17 losses with 16% KOs *D-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Weinberg - 44 wins 22 losses with 34% KOs *D-LEVEL* Gene Gosney - 14 wins 5 losses with 42% KOs *C-minus-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Mike Jacobs - 14 wins 16 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Mel McKinney - 8 wins 10 losses with 5% KOs *F-LEVEL* Teddy Georges - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Oscar Goode - 43 wins 23 losses with 20% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tony Gangemi - 21 wins 18 losses with 26% KOs *F-LEVEL* Benny Rusk - 20 wins 17 losses with 27% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred McManus - 18 wins 19 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Holloway - 2 wins 11 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Claude McClintock - 1 win 9 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Steve King - 21 wins 11 losses with 17% KOs *D to F-LEVEL* Jimmy White - 9 wins 17 losses with 11% KOs *F-LEVEL* Frankie Reed - 2 wins 14 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Mike Belluscio - 15 wins 10 losses with 37% KOs *F-LEVEL* Luther McMillan - 13 wins 19 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Ramsey - 8 wins 12 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lorne McCarthy - 2 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Zeke Brown - 0 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jim Johnson - 3 wins 22 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Dodd - 8 wins 12 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Al Zappala - 20 wins 27 losses with 9% KOs *F-LEVEL* Zack Johnson - 3 wins 7 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Dave Glanton - 1 win 13 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* *Lewis Watson, the boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition, saying: “Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition."* *"Promoters lookin for a way to get their prizefighters a big payoff will first invest thousands of dollars in padding his numbers against truly horrendous opponents. A guy who’s undefeated at 37-0, for example, might not be any better than a more seasoned boxer with a lousy record."* -- The Ring Magazine *THE WORST 37-0 EVER.* Roland was well protected and very carefully managed. There are so many names from his era conspicuously missing from his record. LaStarza's only claim to fame was having lost a close decision to Marciano. *End of story.* "His reputation was built on the first Rocky fight. Although he had a long winning streak at the beginning of his career, there are no tough names on his record. After the first Marciano fight he could have forced the issue by meeting top fighters. He refused fights with Charles, Moore, Clarence Henry, Bob Baker etc. Lost and avenged to overstuffed light heavy Dan Bucceroni and to light heavy Rocky Jones and looked terrible against Jones in the rematch. The Jones win and a victory over the faded Rex Layne gave him the credentials to meet Rocky for the title. A fight I am told Rocky was more intent on giving Roland a beating for all of the talk that he "was afraid" to meet LaStarza again. Look at LaStarza's record there are no names on it except for Marciano. I have the complete film of the Jones rematch and believe me LaStarza looked terrible. LaStarza NEVER fought a dangerous opponent except Marciano and thats a fact if you know any of the fighters from his era. I am not saying that LaStarza was a coward but he (or, excuse me, his management) refused matches with Henry, Charles, Baker, and Archie Moore. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much, saying he wouldn't take those matches because he "deserved" a rematch with Marciano and thought he was offered the other matches by the IBC only because they were trying to knock him out of "his rightful shot at Marciano." Boo Hoo Hoo. Real, confident fighters go out and prove they deserve their shot by beating dangerous fighters to force a showdown with a champion." -- *Chuck Hasson Boxing Historian and Philly Boxing Founder* LaStarza was coming off a loss and a win against 14-9-2 Rocky Jones. Layne had lost to the unrated 12-2 Willie James and a light heavyweight contender. The winner of this garbage gets a world title shot against a guy who already beat BOTH of them. *Heavyweight contenders today aren't rated at the top after they lose to unranked journeymen and light heavyweights.* *LaStarza vs. Layne (uploader William Walker)* reminds me of watching two midwest *club fighters* fightin a *4* rounder on an old ESPN card from Muncie, In. *Two guys who were not well schooled, standing in front of each other acting like they were insulted if the other guy missed them with a punch. A lot of right hand leads, a lot of jabs with the rear foot leaving the canvas, little/no counter punching, just two guys willing to get hit but showing little boxing skill.* Look how bad Rex Layne swings and misses. *What an oaf.*
Folks tryin to say Marciano would weigh 220 lbs today is laughable. All the PEDs in the world ain't gonna help his extraordinarily short dwarfism arms grow longer.
@@Samantha_Lavery_Medici Another ridiculous post from you. Look at Michael Spinks. He was the LH champ at 175 lbs. When he fought Mike Tyson he was 212 1/2. That is 37 1/2 lbs. Did all that weight he put on go in his arms?
Granted Marciano and Charles were tuff during their time but that was 70yrs ago when heavyweights were not much bigger than light heavyweights. Little Charles weighed 181 and little Rocky weighed 184 when they won their Heavyweight titles, and anyone who thinks they could compete against today's 250-lb Super Heavyweights is Moronic
Archie Moore went on a 21 fight streak before he faced Rocky Marciano. Moore's numbers may not lie, but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion. So let's examine those *SEVENTEEN* opponents (not in order). Bobo Olson 170 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Clinton Bacon 170 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Harold Johnson 170 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Harold Johnson *TWICE* *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Joey Maxim 174 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Joey Maxim *TWICE* *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Joey Maxim *THRICE* *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Dogomar Martinez 175 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Sonny Andrews 177 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Rinaldo Ansaloni 178 lb *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Jimmy Slade 180 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Bob Dunlap 180 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Clarence Henry 184 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Toxie Hall 188 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Bert Whitehurst 186 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?* Frank Buford 199 lbs had a career 22 wins 32 losses *F-LEVEL* with 2% KOs. Al Spaulding 210 lbs had a career 25 wins 27 losses *F-LEVEL* with an abysmal 24% KOs. Leonard Dugan 209 lbs had a career 6 wins 2 losses *D-LEVEL* with an abysmal 25% KOs. Bob Baker 209 lbs had a career 51 wins 16 losses *D-LEVEL* with an abysmal 29% KOs. Nino Valdes 209 lbs had a career 48 wins 18 losses *C-minus LEVEL* with a low-power 51% KOs. Nino Valdes *TWICE* How can anyone possibly compare Marciano to Moore??? It never was an even playing field.. How many fights did Moore have before he faced Marciano??? *"ONE HUNDRED SEVENTY EIGHT"* ..give little Rocky 178 fights and put him the same age as Moore what happens??? Light heavyweight Moore beats light heavyweight Marciano 10 out of 10 times!!!! Marciano's #1 critique has *ALWAYS* been that Louis, Walcott, Charles and Moore were not prime. Moore was factually born in 1913 and Marciano in 1923. Rocky fans only defence is, "but but Moore was on a 21 fight win streak before he fought Marciano." Well analyze those 17 opponents. The 5 Heavyweights were C-minus to F-LEVEL opposition, and his best opponents were genuine light heavyweights. Correct??? Charles, Moore, Matthews, Cockell, Johnson, Bivins, etc. were all genuine light heavyweights. Correct??? A prime 220lb Mike Tyson or a prime 230lb David Tua or a prime 225lb Riddick Bowe takes out all these light heavyweights in only 1 or 2 rounds. *MARCIANO NEVER FACED AN ELITE FIGHTER IN HIS PRIME. NAME ONE, JUST ONE PRIME ELITE FIGHTER MARCIANO BEAT???* FAILING TO NAME EVEN ONE PROVES MY COMMENT RINGS TRUE... *SHOW ME ANY RESPECTED BOXING PUBLICATION OR ANALYST THAT CLAIMS WALCOTT, CHARLES AND MOORE WERE IN THEIR PRIME WHEN THEY FOUGHT MARCIANO???* TIC-TOC TIC-TOC
I loved Rocky Marciano's response when someone asked him what he was thinking when Walcott knocked him down in their first fight: "Gee, this fellow hits hard. I might have to get up a couple of times before I knock him out."
@@Jabbing_Jack NO EXCUSES! EVERYBODY FOUGHT OLD BUMS< EVERYONE! THAT"S IT< EAT IT! 49-0, 43 knockouts!! They hate him because he's a paisano, goomba, Italiano, WHITE!!!! they can't stand it and no one will admit that!!!!! Ask Muhammad Ali if he would have beaten Rocky!!!!!!! Go to the video!!!
Rocky was always so nice and humble. He never trash talked his opponents and always praised their fighting abilities before he broke them , he let his fist do the talking.
Most if not all were like that. The thing is most of them couldn’t draw flies to the fight game. Then along came clay/Ali You have to understand Liston , Patterson were at the time the premiere heavyweights so why is it that the young and not yet fully established clay/Ali was drawing twenty plus thousand buts to the arenas because he was not just a fighter he was also an entertainer. This ment extra money for all his opponents. You have to admit those fighters needed money. So sir stop insinuating and admit that every once in a while someone special comes along and every one benifits. Ps nuff said. Sir
@@Maria.Isabella.Sanchez that my friend is the truth. Without the sport of boxing Muhammad would not have a forum to ply his trade, that is exactly why he never cheated the sport. No sir like Marciano said he worked hard for what he accumplished
@@Jabbing_Jack Look at you trying to change the definition of the word prime so it fits your Freak Boy agenda Here is the actual definition of the word prime taken directly from the Cambridge dictionary Prime - the period in your life when you are most active or successful.
Marciano fans describe him as being *so fierce* that he practically *killed all 49* of his opponents in the ring. Y'all have these vids *saturated with so much exaggerated nonsense* that it's laughable. *Little Marciano was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , because when he walked the earth shook.* If little Rocky was *so-powerful* why didn't he *ever break any bones???* He never broke *one rib,* *one nose,* *one eye-socket,* *one jaw* or *detached one retina.* Exactly *who's bones did he break???* Waiting,, Tic Toc Tic Toc... *""NOBODY""!!!! ""ZERO""!!!!* Roland LaStarza with all his supposed *"Broken Bones"* and *"Ruptured Blood Vessels"* only had to have *'minor'* surgery. Y'all act as if *both his arms were decapitated.* LaStarza simply had *miniscule bone-chips* removed from his elbow just like David Tua did after his fight with Ibeabuchi. *It is a common boxing injury because everyone blocks punches using their forearms and elbows.* Besides LaStarza said, *"I already had elbow problems before i even fought Marciano."* I have the *article.* When Roland left boxing he went on to a very lucrative TV acting career. Here's the newspaper article about Layne's tooth: *"Rex Layne lost a left upper tooth..the tooth broke at the gums when Marciano caught the Utahn in the mouth with a full right hand. Layne was taken immediately after the fight to a New York dentist to have the teeth X-rayed and also for treatment on a broken tooth." Layne's handlers said, "the tooth went out with the gumshield."* Rex only sustained *"ONE"* broken tooth! He fought Charles exactly 3 months later so what's the big deal??? *Folks break their teeth all the time skateboarding or slippin-n-fallin on the ice.* "He punched out almost every tooth in Rex Lyne's mouth and sent his gum guard into the crowd. It take massive power to do that. If Layne was 6'6 240+ it wouldn't of made any difference." -- *written by a-typical Marciano Fanboy 12 years ago.*
The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. *He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."* Rocky's manager Al Weill said the same thing in Marciano's biography 'Unbeaten', *"Vingo hit his head on the flooring, then he went unconscious."* So after all this time it was the plywood flooring that partially paralyzed Vingo, not Marciano's punch. It's no wonder *Vingo said, "I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin* Nobody knows how that particular ring in 1949 was actually constructed at that particular venue. Regardless of the flooring, Vingo *tooth-pick* Bingo was 6' 4" 189 lbs with an abysmal 38% KO's. A closer look at his eighteen opponents: #1) Vingo 188¼ vs Barney Metten 192¾ lbs CAREER *6 wins 3 losses* with 44% KO's *F-LEVEL* #2) Vingo 187 lbs vs Fred Ramsey 186 lbs CAREER *8 wins 12 losses* with 28% KO's *F-LEVEL* #3) Vingo 190 lbs vs Earl Turner 198 lbs CAREER *2 wins 21 losses* with *0%* KO's *F-LEVEL* Turner's *only purpose* was *Paddin Records.* #4) Vingo 190 lbs vs George Washington 187 lbs CAREER *12 wins 33 losses* with 17% KO's *F-LEVEL* Another *Paid Diver.* #5) Vingo 194½ lbs vs Joe Lindsay 182½ lbs CAREER *28 wins 7 losses* with 29% KO's *C-LEVEL* Vingo *"LOSES"* #6) Vingo 194 lbs vs Freddie McManus 179½ lbs CAREER *18 wins 19 losses* with *7%* KO's *F-LEVEL* #7) Vingo 197 lbs vs Tommy DiGiorgio 183½ lbs CAREER *9 wins 15 losses* with *4%* KO's *F-LEVEL* #8) Vingo 192 lbs vs Jimmy Walls 189½ lbs CAREER *20 wins 41 losses* with *8%* KO's *F-LEVEL* *"Another Diver"* #9) Vingo 189½ lbs vs Tommy DiGiorgio 183½ lbs CAREER *9 wins 15 losses* with *4%* KO's *F-LEVEL* *"SECOND" time* Vingo fights this undercard boxer. *Why???* #10) Vingo 188 lbs vs Johnny Williams 183 lbs CAREER *2 wins 13 losses* with *6%* KO's *F-LEVEL* *This isn't even boxing anymore. It's charity for the homeless.* #11) Vingo 188 lbs vs Don Mogard 191¼ lbs CAREER *20 wins 16 losses* with *15%* KO's *F-LEVEL* #12) Vingo 195 lbs vs Freddie McManus 178 lbs CAREER *18 wins 19 losses* with *7%* KO's *F-LEVEL* *"SECOND" time* Vingo fights this opponent. *Why???* #13) Vingo 195 lbs vs Ernie Conyer 191½ lbs CAREER *5 wins 9 losses* with 21% KO's *F-LEVEL* #14) Vingo 185 lbs vs Ernie Conyer 187½ lbs CAREER *5 wins 9 losses* with 21% KO's *F-LEVEL* *"SECOND" time* Vingo fights this opponent. *Why???* #15) Vingo 188½ lbs vs Joe Modzele 183 lbs CAREER *18 wins 8 losses* with 26% KO's *D to F-LEVEL* *Light* heavyweights *moonlighting as Heavyweights were dime a dozen back then.* #16) Vingo 192½ lbs vs George Washington 189 lbs CAREER *12 wins 33 losses* *F-LEVEL* *"SECOND" time* Vingo fights this *Diver.* Vingo fought *"FOUR"* opponents *"TWICE"* within *16* bouts. *Why?* Even the *majority* of his opponents have *losing* records. *Why???* This is all very reminiscent of Roland LaStarza's first 37 opponents. *This isn't even funny anymore.* It's downright shameful. #17) Vingo 193 lbs vs Al Robinson 193 lbs CAREER *0 wins 5 losses* with *0%* KO's *F-LEVEL* Vingo actually fights a *debuting 0-0-0 amateur just before* he faces little Rocky. *Why???* #18) Vingo 189 lbs vs Rocky Marciano 180¼ lbs CAREER *49 wins 0 losses* with 87.76% KO's *B-LEVEL* Vingo was completely outclassed and never had a chance from the get-go. I saw their Getty Museum pics and Marciano didn't have a single mark on his face, and his eyes were wide open and clear. *What they did to Vingo was a Travesty.* *THE WORST PREDETERMINED 16-2 BOXING RESUME OF ALL TIME* All this time i was mislead into believing that Vingo was this twenty year old superstar being prepped to become the next Heavyweight champ. Instead he was prepped for *SLAUGHTER JUST TO PLEASE A CROWD --Carmine Vingo*
Journeyman Jersey Joe Walcott's 20 losses: *1.* ln 1930 Walcott lost to 159-lb Palmer. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *SEVEN* years old. *2.* In 1930 Walcott lost to 158-lb Carl Mays. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *EIGHT* years old. *3.* In 1933 Walcott lost to 177-lb Henry Taylor. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TEN* years old. *4.* In 1936 Walcott was *KOd* by 191-lb Al Ettore. Marciano was *THIRTEEN* years old. *5.* In 1936 Walcott lost to 179-lb Billy Ketchell. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *THIRTEEN* years old. *6.* In 1937 Walcott was *KOd* by 178-lb Tiger Jack Fox. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *FOURTEEN* years old. *7.* In 1937 Walcott lost to 174-lb George Brothers. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *FOURTEEN* years old. *8.* In 1938 Walcott lost to 184-lb Tiger Jack Fox AGAIN. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *FIFTEEN* years old. *9.* In 1938 Walcott lost to 197-lb Roy Lazer. Marciano was *FIFTEEN* years old. *10.* In 1940 Walcott was *KOd* and sent into *RETIREMENT* for *3-years* by 256-lb Abe Simon. A Super Heavyweight in every sense, he benefitted from a remarkable sixty-two pound weight advantage. Behind in points in the first five rounds, Simon unleashed a tremendous right @ 2:32 into the sixth causing the knockout. Walcott barely moved as he was counted out." -- Wiki* ..Simon was sent into *permanent RETIREMENT* by Joe Louis in 1942. Marciano was *SEVENTEEN* years old. *11.* In 1945 Walcott lost to 204-lb Johnny Allen who had more losses than wins. Marciano was *TWENTY TWO* years old. *12.* In 1946 Walcott lost to 179-lb Joey Maxim. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TWENTY THREE* years old. *13.* In 1946 Walcott lost to 191-lb Elmer Ray. Marciano was *TWENTY THREE* years old. *14.* In 1947 Walcott lost to 212-pound Joe Louis. *JOE LOUIS SAID HE BEAT WALCOTT IN THIS BOUT.. LOUIS ALSO SAID WALCOTT WAS OLDER THAN HE WAS (@ Louis vs. Walcott The Way it Was Part 1 and 2).* Marciano was *TWENTY FOUR* years old. *15.* In 1948 Walcott was *KOd* by 213-lb Joe Louis. Louis barely got through the Journeyman so he announced his retirement March 1, 1949. Louis's once speedy reflexes were gone and it showed. Marciano was *TWENTY FIVE* years old. *16.* In 1949 Walcott lost to 181-lb Ezzard Charles. This fight was for the *"vacant"* Heavyweight title. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TWENTY SIX* years old. *17.* In 1950 Walcott lost to 192-lb Rex Layne. Marciano was *TWENTY SEVEN* years old. *18.* In 1951 Walcott lost to 185-lb Ezzard Charles AGAIN. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TWENTY EIGHT* years old. *19.* In 1952 Walcott was *KOd* by 184-lb Rocky Marciano. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TWENTY NINE* years old. *IT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION THAT WALCOTT WAS IN HIS PRIME vs. MARCIANO BECAUSE IT'S SCIENTIFICALLY AND MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!!! AND JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY HE WAS PRIME DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!!! PUT WALCOTT AT (( 29 )) AND MARCIANO AT (( 38 )) - WHAT HAPPENS???* *20.* In 1953 Walcott was *KOd* by 184-lb Rocky Marciano. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *THIRTY* years old and Walcott was very close to *FORTY!!!* *It was advantageous that Marciano started late because he was fresh while the others were already smashed around lik' bowling pins for (15) years. Also little Rocky did have an extensive amateur career. His uncle hung a heavy bag in the back yard when he was only 10 years old, and he had years of daily sparing while he was in the military.*
@@David_Frost_Stout_Krout Look at you spamming this thread with numerous posts from your stout krout and studentofsweetscience accounts. It is one of your go to moves when you get clowned Move #1 steal the name of the guy who clowned you Move #2 Spam the thread with numerous posts that have little to do with the topic at hand
@@bobbyd1492 And for the umpteenth time why do you NEVER list these polls? Why is that? I have asked you numerous times Fake Bobby D to list them and you never do
Marciano said, "I started quite late as a heavyweight. I fought 16 times in my very first professional year. The following year i fought 14 times. Then when i won the title my following year my fights slacked off." Marciano's total fights per year: 1947 -- 1 1948 -- 11 1949 -- 13 1950 -- 6 1951 -- 7 1952 -- 5 Championship years: 1953 -- 2 1954 -- 2 1955 -- 2 Rocky also said, "Floyd Patterson one year only fought 1 or 2 times." Well Mr. little Rocky you did the same for 3 years!!! And, at least Patterson had 64 total fights, not a measly 49. Towards the end he says, "In my 23rd fight i was on television and made a big hit, in beating Joe Louis." Rocky beat Joe his 38th fight, not 23rd. Marciano also said, "Clay was just fighting anybody" (meaning bums)... Have you ever looked in the mirror Rocky? *Cuz yer entire career consisted of F-LEVEL BUMS*
BoxRec has officially listed these Rocky Marciano opponents as *'middleweights'* and *'light'* heavyweights: Eddie Ross - division *"Middleweight"* Harry Bilazarian - division *"Middleweight"* Archie Moore - division *"Light heavy"* Harry Matthews - division *"Light heavy"* Harry Haft - division *"Light heavy"* Ted Lowry - division *"Light heavy"* Willis Applegate - division *"Light heavy"* Bob Jefferson - division *"Light heavy"* Ezzard Charles - division *"Light heavy"* Apparently after 23 years BoxRec recently *changed Ezzard Charles's division classification to "heavy" several days ago.* It don't matter if they change it to the *"Super-Heavy" division* because he still only weighed *'181-lbs'* when he won his title and there is nothing BoxRec or anyone can do or say to change that Fact. Did the Klitschko brothers and Lennox Lewis have the luxury of fightin middleweights and light heavyweights? Of course not. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?* Marciano's small era was a huge contributing factor towards the *"cruiserweight"* division being created. *There comes a point the size disparity becomes a bridge too far even for outstanding smaller boxers.* Little Rocky was only 31 when he *"QUIT"* during his prime. He only fought a measly 7 years while everyone else fought 20 years. Many Heavyweights could have retired undefeated if they had *"QUIT"* after only 7 years. What Marciano did to his family is *"unforgivable"* During his retirement speech and his appearance on the Ed Sullivan show he said, "I want to spend more time with my family." *That's not True. It was all a lie. He immediately abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands then left them penniless--@ 1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI*
So Fury, Lewis, Vitali and Foreman all would have lost if they fought the hyped-up tomato-cans little Rocky fought? Give me a break. Someone like Roland LaStarza would be obliterated in today's Super Heavyweight world.
Immediately after Bert said that, Bill Gallo chimes in and says, *"Ray Arcel was a good friend of mine and he told me he loved Ezzard Charles like a son."* -- which brings us to whatever happened to the famous Ray Arcel ??? *"After some disputes with president Jim Norris of The International Boxing Club of New York (IBC) in the 1950s, Ray Arcel (trainer for Charles) retired from training after being injured with a lead pipe during an attack in Boston. The case that was never solved by police."* --Wiki *"In the early fifties, Arcel ran afoul of organized crime after arranging fights for the ABC television network. The matches competed with other network television fights run by the IBC, known to have underworld ties. In September 1953, in front of a Boston hotel, Arcel was struck on the head with a lead pipe. Many believed that the assault was related to his work in television. Arcel recovered but dropped out of boxing soon after the incident. Not until the early 1970s did Arcel return. He began an eight-year association with Roberto Duran."* --International Boxing Hall Of Fame *And Sports journalist Bert Sugar was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for his vast amount of boxing knowledge. Mr. Sugar was widely regarded as the “boxing bible." Sugar wrote more than 80 books and was ranked as "The Greatest Boxing Writer of the 20th Century" by the International Veterans Boxing Association. Among his boxing books are Sting like a Bee, Great Fights, Bert Sugar on Boxing, 100 Years of Boxing, The 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time, The Thrill of Victory, The Ageless Warrior and Boxing's Greatest Fighters.*
I'm a huge Marciano fan but he was so lucky a young prime Sonny Liston wasn't around during the early 50s. Rocky will always be one of my favorite fighters but I'm a realist that understands his limitations. To think little dwarfism-arms could beat 'The Big Bear' is utterly ridiculous and complete nonsense.
If racial bigotry was not the order of the day. If white privilege was not the priority, if Rocky Marciano, did not have the complexion for the connection, especially given the fact he never fought ONE SINGLE Black fighter in his Prime, Rocky Marciano WOULD NOT have been heavyweight champion. And consider this: Deontay Wilder, with a 93% KO Record, is doing WAAAAY BETTER as a heavyweight, than Marciano in his day could ever hope to do. AND YET, the racist, most white people call him “a bum.” Imagine that! Rocky Marciano was a mediocre fight knocking out cherry picked mediocre bums to pad his record and satisfy the wishes of white supremacy. Since his retirement 62 years ago, NOT ONE SINGLE white American has won the heavy title...NONE!!! Gee, I wonder why????!
@@Jabbing_Jack "Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis "The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield "Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." -Joe Frazier "Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles "Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott "Hit you so so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa. - Muhammed Ali "Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." -Roland LaStarza "One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." -George Foreman We just witnessed it. That's all the proof anyone needs that Mighty Rocky was indeed, a Superior Power hitter
@@Jabbing_Jack "Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis "The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield "Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." -Joe Frazier "Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles "Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott "Like fighting an airplane propeller." - Archie Moore "Hit you so so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa. - Muhammed Ali "Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." -Roland LaStarza "One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." -George Foreman We just witnessed it. That's all the proof anyone needs to see that you don't know what you are talking about
*ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* *People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.* *In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."* *Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Absolutelyyyy Rocky had heart. Just as Joe Frazier was all heart. But look what Big George did to Frazier's heart, bounced it up and down off the canvas like a basket🏀ball. Little Hearts can only take you so far in the land of Bigger Hearts.
Muhammad Ali is the only boxer to be named The Ring magazine Fighter of the Year six times, and was involved in more Ring "Fight of the Year" bouts than any other fighter. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in its first year and held wins over seven other Hall of Fame inductees. Ali appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated on 38 different occasions, second only to Michael Jordan's 46. He also appeared on the cover of Time Magazine 5 times, the most of any athlete. Ali was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and was named Athlete of the Century by USA Today. He was presented with the Presidential Citizens Medal by Clinton and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Bush. In 2015, Sports Illustrated renamed its Sportsman Legacy Award to the Sports Illustrated's Muhammad Ali Legacy Award. In June 2016, an amendment to the US draft laws were named after Ali, a proposal to eliminate the Selective Service System. The Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act was passed in 2000, to protect the rights and welfare of boxers in the United States. As a world champion boxer and pop culture icon, Muhammad Ali was the subject of numerous creative works including books, films, music, video games, TV shows, and other. Muhammad Ali was often dubbed the world's "most famous" person in the media. Several of his fights were watched by an estimated 2 billion viewers between 1974 and 1980, and his lighting of the torch at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics was watched by an estimated 3.5 billion viewers. He also wrote several bestselling books about his career, including The Greatest: My Own Story and The Soul of a Butterfly. When We Were Kings, a 1996 documentary about the Rumble in the Jungle, won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. The 2001 biopic Ali garnered a Best Actor Oscar nomination for Will Smith for his portrayal of Ali. In 2002, Ali was honored with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame for his contributions to the entertainment industry. His star is the only one to be mounted on a vertical surface, out of deference to his request that the name Muhammad-not be walked upon. Documentary filmmaker Ken Burns created the four-part documentary film Muhammad Ali, spanning over eight hours on Ali's life. Burns worked on the film from early 2016 and it was released in September 2021 on PBS. Dave Zirin, who watched an 8-hour rough cut of this documentary, called it "utterly outstanding" and said "the footage they found will blow minds."
Walcott was 38 and 39 years old when he fought Marciano. Which makes perfect sense when ya study Walcott's facial features and the way his legs started wearing out around the 10th round. That's exactly why Walcott got stuck against the ropes during the unlucky 13th. As Rocky slowly shuffled towards Walcott why didn't he move to his left or right like he was previously doing? Because his Senior citizen legs were washed, that's why. Hey, it happens to us all. Nobody escapes father time! Age 40 in boxing years is Senior citizen, especially if a pro boxer has been training and fightin for 20+ years like Louis, Walcott, and Moore did before they faced little Rocky. Only reason Big George Foreman was able to box from 38 to 48 for his second boxing career is because he suffered very little to no head or body trauma and was able to rest 10 years before his comeback.
One would think since little white Marciano was only 185 that he would at least have faster hands than the true Heavyweights right? But Maricano had the slowest hands I've ever seen on a white boy.
Even Walcott was 38/39 years old when he fought Marciano. Which makes perfect sense when ya study Walcott's facial features and the way his legs started wearing out around the 10th round. That's exactly why Walcott got stuck against the ropes during the unlucky 13th. As Rocky slowly shuffled towards Walcott why didn't he move to his left or right like he was previously doing? Because his Senior citizen legs were washed, that's why. Hey, it happens to us all. Nobody escapes father time! A fighter is in his prime when he has the maturity and experience to go along with undiminished reflexes. Once his reflexes start to slide he's past-prime, simple as that. When his reflexes are gone he's a shot fighter. I can't recall seeing a fighter older than his early 30s that still had his reflexes fully intact. It's clear as day that Moore's reflexes were shot against both Marciano & Patterson. Y'all can clearly see Joe Louis telegraph his punches because his reflexes were non-existent. Walcott's legs and/or endurance ran out after round-10 and Charles was natural light-heavyweight that simply did not have enough power to deal with Marciano.
Moore was born in 1913. Marciano was born in 1923. Light heavyweight Moore moved up in weight to fight Marciano at the age of 41. The fallacy that Moore, Walcott and Louis were all prime at 37, 38/39 and 41yrs of age is a misleading unsound argument and scientifically impossible.
It's interesting how people who experienced watching him in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he quit (Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis, Vitali, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, Wladimir, Ibeabuchi, Frazier, etc). All the professionals, managers, trainers, boxing writers and historians in the 50s, 60s and 70s only rated Rocky #7, #8, #9 and #10 Heavyweight, all-time. Funny how his status rises as fewer people remain who actually covered him when he fought. There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record.
Mayweather was named "Fighter of the Decade" for the 2010s by the Boxing Writers Association of America (BWAA), a two-time winner of The Ring magazine's Fighter of the Year award (1998 and 2007), a three-time winner of the BWAA Fighter of the Year award (2007, 2013, and 2015), and a six-time winner of the Best Fighter ESPY Award (2007-2010, 2012-2014). In 2016, ESPN ranked him the greatest boxer, pound for pound, of the last 25 years. As of May 2021, BoxRec ranks him the greatest boxer of all time, pound for pound. Many sporting news and boxing websites, including The Ring, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, BoxRec, Fox Sports, and Yahoo! Sports, ranked Mayweather as the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world twice in a span of ten years. Since the existence of CompuBox, Mayweather is the most accurate puncher among professional boxers, having the highest plus-minus ratio in recorded boxing history. He has a record of 26 consecutive wins in world title fights (10 by KO), 23 wins (9 KOs) in lineal title fights, 24 wins (7 KOs) against former or current world titlists, 12 wins (3 KOs) against former or current lineal champions, and 5 wins (1 KO) against International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees. He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in the class of 2021. Mayweather is one of the most lucrative pay-per-view attractions of all time, in any sport. He topped the Forbes and Sports Illustrated lists of the 50 highest-paid athletes of 2012 and 2013, and the Forbes list again in both 2014 and 2015, as the highest-paid athlete in the world. In 2006, he founded his own boxing promotional firm, Mayweather Promotions, after leaving Bob Arum's Top Rank. He has generated approximately 24 million PPV buys and $1.67 billion in revenue throughout his career, surpassing the likes of former top PPV attractions including Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis and Oscar De La Hoya. In 2018, he was the highest-paid athlete in the world, with total earnings, including endorsements, of $285 million, according to Forbes. In November, 2021, Sportico released an all-time athlete earnings list, in which Mayweather ranked no. 6 of all time, totaling an inflation-adjusted $1.2 billion in his career.
You can say all you want about Mayweather, Jr. and his victories without loss, titles, opponents beaten, and record money earnings. What you can't deny is that he's a puerile, classless, narcissistic asshole who never met a mirror whose reflection he didn't adore, and a man who -- despite all the accolades he's received for prizefighting -- has never done anything of note for the human race. No matter what he's able to buy with money, he'll never be able to purchase human decency or humility.
In boxing, having an unbeaten record is considered a very significant achievement. Boxers with unbeaten records are highly regarded and seen as the best in the sport. Rocky Marciano's *"0"* meant everything. Without it he wouldn't be ranked top-20. Only *"ONE"* loss would have changed little Rocky's entire boxing legacy. Combined Wilder and Joshua only have 5 losses which is why they're being thrown under the bus. Wins and losses define a boxer. If Fury or Usyk attains a single loss their chances for top-10 will immediately vanish. Since so much emphasis is put on the perfect record and/or losses can someone please explain *why* Rocky's opponents CHARLES, WALCOTT, MOORE, SAVOLD, LOWRY, LAYNE, COCKELL, WILSON, SHKOR, WALLS, HENRI, SIMMONS, EATMAN, MUSCATO AND BESHORE *LOST ((411)) TIMES* AND THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE??? Charles Lost (25) times Walcott Lost (20) times Moore Lost (23) times Savold Lost (45) times Lowry Lost (68) times Layne Lost (17) times Cockell Lost (14) times Wilson Lost (27) times Shkor Lost (19) times Walls Lost (41) times Henri Lost (29) times Simmons (22) times Eatman (21) times Muscato (23) times Beshore (17) times *(and many more with double digit losses,, the list is too long)* WHY DIDN'T ALL MARCIANO OPPONENTS HAVE *""ZERO""* LOSSES IF THEY WERE SO GREAT??? if *"0"* is the only thing that matters then little Marciano's opponents were horrendous.. correct??? *It is worth noting that an unbeaten record does not mean that a boxer is the best, as there are many factors that can impact a fighter's record, such as the level of competition they have faced. There is no way to argue objectively that Marciano is the greatest. And that is due to not only his lackluster competition, but his wars against them.* *Can you imagine what Foreman in his prime would have done to little Charles and little Moore??? Is there anyone that Marciano beat that Ibeabuchi wouldn’t have beaten in a more convincing fashion??? If Foreman or Ibeabuchi fought Marciano the bookmakers would make Foreman and Ibeabuchi at least a -350 favorite.*
There are *few* Heavyweight champions in the history of boxing that are *better known* for *their losses* than *their wins.* Jersey Joe Walcott's *high profile losses* is what *elevated his status* and built up his credentials, *not his wins.* *During his peak championship years, Walcott scored 7 wins with 5 KO's. Only one of those KO's came against a ranked fighter, that being Ezzard Charles. During this time Walcott also lost 7 times and suffered 10 count KO's 3 times and a 9 count once. In total fights during this time Walcott's record was 7-7. In title fights he went 2-6 with 1 KO win and 3 KO losses. He fought 3 different men in his 8 title fights, was defeated by each of them twice, KO'd by two of them and only defeated one of them.* In his overall career Walcott had a *49-20-1* record and was *KO'd 6 times* (BoxRec). Based on these *less than impressive stats* it is difficult to consider him anymore than a *good Journeyman.* Walcott scored 32 KO's in 70 fights. The *'only two'* 'ranked' fighters Walcott ever KO'd was an off the floor 10th round win over Curtis Sheppard and the *lightning in the bottle* KO of Ezzard Charles. Walcott is a prime example of boxing historians rating a fighter *higher than he deserves* based on *impressive losses.* Walcott was *winless* in all *4* of his fights vs. Louis/Marciano and was KO'd *3* times. *The fact that Walcott was granted 6 title attempts in a 6 year span speaks volumes about how weak the Heavyweight division must have been at this time. ""Five"" of these title opportunities came immediately after a Walcott loss.* Had Walcott been fighting in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's, there is *no-way* he would have been granted this many opportunities after losing *so-many* title attempts. Walcott should at best be remembered not as a great Heavyweight champion, but a *good C-LEVEL Journeyman.* *If a fighter today had 20 losses and was KO'd 6 times he'd be considered F-LEVEL all day every day.* Wilder and Joshua *only have 5 losses between them* yet they are already considered *has-beens.* But it's *perfectly fine* for Walcott Charles Moore to have *(68)* losses, *double standard.* *Lennox Lewis was only KO'd 2 times and his top-10 ranking has suffered ever since.* But it's *perfectly fine* for Walcott Charles Moore to have been *KO'd (20)* times, *double standard.*
Jonathan Eig wrote of Sonny in Ali: A Life: “Liston does not merely defeat his opponents. He breaks them, shames them, haunts them, leaves them flinching from his punches in their dreams."
People describes little white Marciano as being so ferocious that he basically killed all 49 of his opponents in the ring. Marciano vids are filled with fan boys exaggerated-hyperbole-comments about Rocky's power. But what people fails to tell everyone is that LaStarza (with all his "Broken Bones" and "Ruptured Blood Vessels") simply had minor surgery and was fightin exactly 6 months later. Layne only had 4 broken teeth and was fightin exactly 3 months later - Wiki. These are all normal boxing injuries. Notice how these Marciano lovers never wanna discuss his injuries? Like 2 confirmed nose surgeries, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used like a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around, here, you hit me 5 times and I'll hit you back one time, Duh.
Rex Layne - 50 wins 17 losses with an abysmal 48% KOs *C-LEVEL* Keep in mind that *C-LEVEL* is an average fighter that's still capable of winning a title. Layne scores an extremely low *15 points* for his top 10 ranked appearances throughout his career. *Who did he beat?* His best win *was against Walcott* but *everybody beat Jersey Joe so no biggie.* Jersey Joe Walcott - 49 wins 20 losses with an abysmal 44% KOs *C-LEVEL* Walcott scores *55 points* for his top 10 positions. Walcott fought for the title *6* times and lost *5* times. *He's more famous for his losses than his wins.* Ali scored *164 points,* Louis scored *138,* Wladimir *136,* Lennox *111,* Holyfield *109,* Holmes *88,* Foreman *86,* Frazier *84,* Tyson *77* and little Marciano only scored *48 points!* Ali is the only Heavyweight with an *A+ LEVEL.* Marciano is *B-LEVEL* for his *weak competition* and *lack of points.* *(I'll ad a comment below thoroughly explaining Walcott's C-LEVEL resume in detail).* Archie Moore - 186 wins 23 losses with a-low-power 60% KOs *A-LEVEL* at light heavyweight and *C-LEVEL* at Heavyweight. Moore accumulated *156 points* at light heavyweight and only *21* at Heavyweight. Moore misses his *A+ LEVEL* at Light heavyweight because *(23)* losses is *too many.* Ali only had *5,* Louis only had *3,* Lennox only had *2,* Wladimir only had *5,* Liston only had *4,* Vitali only had *2,* Bowe only had *1* etc. *BUT BUT Moore had 220 Fights!!!* Well little Rocky only had *49* so *stop whining.* Ezzard Charles - 95 wins 25 losses with the lowest ever 42% KOs *A-LEVEL* at light heavyweight and *B-minus LEVEL* at Heavyweight. Charles only compiled *24 points* at light heavyweight and *59 points* at Heavyweight. *Too many losses* Fight *4* fights lose *1,* fight *4* lose *1,* fight *4* lose *1,* fight *4* lose *1,* fight *4* lose *1.* Y'all act as if *(25)* losses are *Meaningless.* If Fury or Usyk has only *(1)* loss they'd be thrown under the bus for eternity just like undisputed undefeated light heavyweight champion Michael Spinks was. --- *ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* *People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.* *In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."* *Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Archie Moore was 39, and on a 21 fight win streak, the longest of his career, all against younger opposition. He was prime. Joe Walcott was 38 and the Heavyweight Champion. He was also prime. Charles was 33, a year and a half older, and prime. Louis was 37, but had just won 8 straight, with 4 knockouts, and a defeat of a future hall of famer, in Jimmy Bivins. Rocky only had two years under his belt when he faced Joe Louis. Rocky had great wins over great fighters and champions. That is why Louis said, "he was the best."
Jersey Joe was better at the end of his career than at the beginning, or the middle, when he found sponsorship. You can track his improvement from the Louis and Charles bouts that preceeded the Marciano fight. The same hook that flattened Charles cold to win him the belt caught the Rock flatfooted, standing up, and put him down for a four count. Walcott nailed him a half dozen more times with that punch to no effect, as Marciano stayed in his crouch, neutralizing Joe's leverage. Jersey Joe was a formidable opponent, 12lbs heavier than Rocky, with serious KO power, a far more experienced boxer, skillful and crafty in the ring, defending his hard won, long sought crown, trading heavy punches for 12 rounds and by most accounts well ahead on points right until the very end of the most electrifying boxing match ever. You can count the number of boxers who went toe to toe with the Rock for 12 rounds on the fingers of one hand.
Even if little white Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little white Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
Maybe little white Rocky could have beaten that circus clown Jess Willard who was paraded around for 4 years without a single fight. Or maybe he could have even beat that other circus clown Primo Carnera who was daily alcoholic (like Andre the Giant) and 100% mafioso controlled. The ‘ambling alp’ was an awful boxer with gigantism or acromegaly (like Andre the Giant). He was promoted as a monster because of his size, but he was really clumsy and couldn`t punch with his full weight, he was completely exposed by Joe Louis who easily battered Primo into submission.
Y'all white Marciano lovers fail to ever mention Marciano's Forced retirement. Why? Because Marciano couldn't take the pain anymore from two confirmed nose surgeries, hand surgery, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used as a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around,, here,, you hit me five times,, and I'll hit you back one time,, Duh. And all that talk about retiring for his family nonsense was simply a bull•••• publicity stunt because he immediately abandoned his family and left them penniless when he perished.
Rocky's numbers may not lie, *but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion.* So let's examine those 13 opponents *(not in order)* that he supposedly *FORCED INTO RETIREMENT* instantaneously. #1) *Amateur* Lee Epperson - *0 wins 0 losses.* Shameful to even count this as "Forced-Retirement." *Retired from what??* He never even had a career. Epperson was probably *15 years old like Walcott and Moore were* when they first started. #2) *Amateur* Jimmy Weeks - *0 wins 0 losses.* Embarrassing to count this as "Forced-Retirement." *Probably another 15 year old.* #3) *Amateur* John Edwards - *1 win 1 loss.* Y'all gonna count this as *"Forced Retirement"* also??? #4) We factually know that ring-worn-n-washed Joe Louis only came back because the *IRS-FORCED him to.* As soon as IRS took Joe's purse for fightin Rocky he was *finally outta there for good!!!!* #5) Walcott only returned for Marciano-2 for another *easy $250K.* Walcott received the *lions share both fights.* Had Walcott continued fightin he would have only received a *fraction* of that. *$250K back then is $2.6 million today.* Little Rocky never "Forced-Retirement" upon Walcott,, he *"QUIT"!!!!* #6) Lee Savold age was 36 with *153 bouts.* His manager, *Bill Daily, asked referee Pete Tomasso to stop the uneven match at the end of the sixth round. "The will was there but not the body," said Daily. "I'm going to advise Lee to retire Tomorrow."* Lee didn't even throw a punch, he just stood there like a heavy punching bag. *Completely washed* Savold was only there for his last *Big-Paycheck!!!!* #7) 254-lb Humphrey *"The-Bum"* Jackson - *4 wins 2 losses* with 28% KO's *F-LEVEL* Jackson never beat a winning fighter. It only took *0:34** seconds* for Jackson to be KO'd in his first fight, and *1:28* in his last fight. The less said about *"The-Bum"* the better. #8) Jimmy Evans - *18 wins 8 losses* with 50% KO's *F-LEVEL* Evans fought *10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Evans weighed 178 lbs. *Too many light heavyweights.* #9) Harry Haft - *12 wins 8 losses* with 35% KO's *F-LEVEL* Harry was only 5' 9" 174 lbs. *Isn't this supposed to be the Heavyweight division???* #10) Gino Buonvino - *24 wins 15 losses* with *10%* KO's *F-LEVEL* Marciano fights Buonvino *"TWICE"* ..why??? #11) Eldridge Eatman - *22 wins 21 losses* with 22% KO's *F-LEVEL* Marciano fought Eatman who had just lost *8 of his last 9 fights* Rocky's handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone decent after coming so close to losing against LaStarza. *"'Eatman proved no opposition for Marciano,'" according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, "'Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT'"* ..Eatman's profession was *paddin records.* #12) Pete Louthis was 32-13-5 with 35% KO's *F-LEVEL* Pete fought *amateur* Willie James with a *0-0-0 debut* record only 2 fights before facing Marciano. Pete fought *10 amateurs with 0-0-0 debut* records. For Pete's sake he also fought another *20 opponents that had 10 or less fights.* #13) Carmine Vingo -- 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KO's looks okay until you see *ALL 16* wins came against *F-LEVEL* opponents. The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. *He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."* Rocky's manager Al Weill said the same thing in Marciano's biography 'Unbeaten', *"Vingo hit his head on the flooring, then he went unconscious."* So it was the plywood flooring that partially paralyzed Vingo, not Marciano's punch. It's no wonder *Vingo said, "I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin* After all this time i was *mislead* into believing that Vingo was this twenty year old superstar being prepped to become the next Heavyweight champ. Instead he was prepped for *SLAUGHTER JUST TO PLEASE A CROWD --Carmine Vingo* *IT APPEARS LITTLE ROCKY DID NOT FORCE-RETIRE ""ANY"" OF THESE BOXERS*
Speaking of numbers, lets look at the numbers (records) of some of Rockys opponents 1. Joe Walcott 49-20-1 You say he lost 41% of his fights. Not even close 2. Bill Wilson 56-27-3 You say he lost 50 % of his fights. Not even close 3. Johnny Shkor 31-19-2 You say he lost 62% of his fights. Not even close Seriously, how did you come up with these losing percentages? Are you A. outright lying or B. Just real Dum?
Boxing Historian Monte Cox wrote: “Liston was made to be a fighter. His physical attributes bordered on the freakish. At six-foot, one-inch, he had an eighty-four inch reach-longer than that of all other champions with the exception of Primo Carnera. His neck was a massive eighteen inches. But the number that leaps off the page-the statistic that looks initially lik' a typo-is that which corresponds to his hands. When closed into a fist, they measured fifteen inches around, virtually twice the size of an average man’s. To contemplate the impact of a fist that large, delivered over a distance that great, from a man so determined to do damage, would give even the bravest opponent pause."
The great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS
Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Holmes Wladimir Foreman Liston Tyson Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Holyfield Usyk Cooney Tua Morrison Golota Dokes Mercer Povetkin Byrd Haye Bruno Rahman Whyte Ruiz Cleveland Williams etc. are all faster than slow-little Rocky despite being so much Bigger. Marciano fans know that Rocky's not winning any of these fights but will never admit it. Stop living in denial. Rocky is so overrated and definitely doesn't deserve to be ranked within the top 10. Maybe 28th place in top 30
@@blackdavidfrostnDesMoines You state Marciano is overrated. So what are your credentials to be making such a claim? Do you have any or are you just a hater who runs his mouth on youtube?
George said in an interview with Ring Magazine: “Sparring with Liston is the most dangerous thing that I ever did in my entire life. No matter what I tried against him, it was me who had to revert back to boxing. Nobody made me box like Sonny Liston did and that happened every time we worked together. He taught me many things, including the importance of the jab.” A good example of Sonny's sheer strength was an exercise he devised in training camp of loading an industrial sized wheelbarrow full of rocks, and wheeling it up and down a hill. Foreman, 19, and training with "the old man," could only carry one wheelbarrow for every 3 for Sonny: “His strength," said Foreman, "you just can't believe how strong he was!"
Sonny liston gets such a shit wrap because of prison and people think je was just a .onster.. everything I've heard about him is that he wasn't comfortable in public setting but behind the scenes he was am excellent family man. He had to carry that stern look just to make it especially in those Times.
Sonny Liston's arms were like tree trunks and his two 15 inch ham-handed fist were made for destruction. He was able to generate incredible bone breaking teeth shattering leverage with his 84" reach. Nobody goes toe to toe with Sonny, not even Big George. Liston would have KO'd little Rocky in 1-round.
Even if little white Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little white Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
Marciano's first fight vs. LaStarza was *officially called a draw* That is until the mafioso stepped in on Rocky's behalf. We do know factually that Ross and Eatman *Took-A-Dive* ..Was it for $$$ or were they forced to protect themselves and their families from the same folks that protected Marciano? *"'Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day,"'* *(BoxRec)* ...in *less than 24 hours* 170 lb Eddie Ross also fought 160 lb Billy Sparks who had 6 wins 11 losses. *Ross fought 10 amateurs with 0-0-0 debut records.* Eldridge Eatman had 22 wins 20 losses with an abysmal 22% KO's. *"'Eatman proved no opposition for Marciano,'" according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, "'Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT'"* ..That's not all,, the last 9 fights Eatman had leading up to his fight with Marciano he went *1 win 8 losses.* *I understand throwing matches also happened before Rocky's time and after Rocky's time. But the 50s boxing era was the pinnacle for corruption and 100% monopolized. Padding records and taking dives didn't happen once a month, it was the daily norm. It factually happened and cannot ever be swept under the carpet.* *During National Prohibition of alcohol (20s & 30s) many Italian Kingpins similar to Al Capone were able to rack in $100 million each year thanks to the overwhelming business opportunity of illegal booze. The majority of extortion and loansharking gangs were Italian. Lucky Luciano, Johnny Torrio, Al Capone, Vito Genovese, John Gotti, Carlo Gambino, thousands of bosses, underbosses and soldiers, it was all Sicilian.* *Marciano was killed flying to Des Moines to pick up $35K from Lew Farrell, a mob underboss. The meeting place was Dowling Catholic High school. Lew Farrell's son Frankie, 22, also died with Marciano when they slammed into an oak tree. Mr. Greedy Infidel knowingly flew during severe weather with an amateur pilot.* *The day after he retired he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands. He also started his loansharking business--(psychosis and other symptoms he suffered)--@ 1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI*
Since the 80s 'The Ring' always seems to have little Marciano ranked in the top-3. Yet I've seen other polls where he's not ranked in the top-10. Polls and rankings are only opinionated from folks just lik' us. Keep in mind that the 'The Ring' excludes *WEIGHT* as a factor from their results. For seven years little Marciano only averaged 184lbs. How the hell does a little 184lb man rank higher than dozens of genuine 200+lbs Heavyweights and 224+lbs Super Heavyweights?? Perfect example being 6' 7" 250 pound Vitali Klitschko who never hit the canvas and only lost twice due to torn rotator-cuff and severe cut. *Anybody who really understands boxing also understands rankings should always be taken with a grain of salt.* *I could EASILY list 30-top-notch Super Heavyweights from the 1990s to the 2020s who would obliterate tiny dwarfism-arms.*
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. When he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history. Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies." Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Mike Tyson got knocked out FIVE times ha-ha, and Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha. IT'S NOT HOW YOU START IT'S HOW YOU FINISH." 57 year old Lennox is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable. *The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...*[[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]].* Other notable mentions; *Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson* ..Name another Super Heavyweight with a better resume? Only person i can think of is Wladimir Klitschko. How many *"prime"* 200+lb HW Champions did 185-lb dwarfism-arms fight? *""ZERO""!!!!* Imagine little Marciano tryin to fight top-notch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 86" albatross wingspans and 40 to 90-lb weight advantages? Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles was definitely Marciano's toughest opponent and is the only person that took him 15 rounds even *with ALS!!!* *ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* *People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.* *In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."* *Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Anyone who says Rocky beat an old man in Archie Moore that night, remember, Archie Moore held the Light Heavyweight title five (5) more years after being beaten by Marciano ! The point here is despite his age, Archie Moore was far from being past his prime when he fought Rocky !
Bert Sugar and Jimmy Cannon were sports journalist inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for their vast amounts of boxing knowledge. @1:00:00 Bert Sugar said, "It wasn't a great heavyweight division at this time." Then Bert quotes Jimmy Cannon who said, "Because of the mobs influence at the time, Rocky Marciano stands out like a rose in a Garbage Dump." Mr. Sugar was widely regarded as the “boxing bible," and he just said, "Rocky's era was not great." I trust his opinion more than crooked-scammer Don Turner. Sugar wrote more than 80 books and was ranked as "The Greatest Boxing Writer of the 20th Century" by the International Veterans Boxing Association. Among his boxing books are Sting like a Bee, Great Fights, Bert Sugar on Boxing, 100 Years of Boxing, The 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time, The Thrill of Victory, The Ageless Warrior and Boxing's Greatest Fighters. Rocky fans love to use quote after quote after endless quotes to defend their little hero but totally ignore any and all negative quotes. Just sweep em under the carpet. Typical double standard. Same applies with mob influence which controlled every single facet of the 1950's boxing era.
Both Ted Lowry and Roland LaStarza went to their graves saying they beat overrated Rocco Francis Marchegiano first fight, and all the newspaper reporters and fans ringside agreed. The Great authentic Heavyweight Larry Holmes referred to little Rocco padding his record by fighting his brother Peter Marchegiano on at least 3 or 4 occasions so as to boost his record, his brother fought under alias names ..this has also been mentioned in various books. Marchegiano's 49-0 record is FLAWED.
Could you imagine 41 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore busting up King Fury and Big George Foreman or any of the great Super Heavyweights? Yet Marciano had all he could handle and was floored with one glancing shot from the light heavyweight grandfather.
The problem with your statement freak boy is that it is simply not true. Rocky did not have all he could handle with Archie Moore. He beat the daylights out of him. And I noticed you called him a grandfather as to imply he was past his prime. Well, I am still waiting tik tok tik tok, to hear from you when Archie Moore was in his prime. Why do you keep ducking that question? Could it be cowardice?
@@David_Frost_Stout_Krout Hey Freak Boy. His resume does speak for itself. His resume is the reason behind the quotes that you are constantly crying about. Here is something that isn't a quote Ring Magazine HW all time Greatest Heavyweights from 2017 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. Jack Johnson 4.Rocky Marciano 5.Larry Holmes 6. Jack Dempsey 7 George Foreman 8 Joe Frazier 9 Mike Tyson 10 Sonny Liston
@@bobbyd1492 Hey there Fake Bobby D. Why did you change your name? The name on this accunt was Sophia Rossi De Luca John 3:16 when you opened it on Jan. 18, 2022. Why is your name now Bobby D? Why is that Freak Boy
@@bobbyd1492 Hey Freak Boy. Here are some of the new account names you are using now. Lemmon Luke Whitaker. Napolean Barberini. Adam Kingsley, David Beau Jackson, Robert Isaas Cunningham
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop Marciano then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
It wasn't until after Marciano's death in 1969 that his fame really started to grow. Don't get me wrong, he was extremely famous to the Italians on the upper east coast during his very short 7 year boxing career but that was about it. After his death is when all the exaggerated articles begin to appear. 1977 was when his first biography was written. Then it just grew and grew. But before that he was barely on the radar. All the boxing historians and professionals that actually saw him fight never ranked him higher than 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th place.
What about washed-up 40 year old Louis and nobody cares about washed-up light heavyweights Charles Moore and Walcott. Authentic Heavyweights King Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ali Holmes Foreman Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Dokes Grant Povetkin Whyte Ruiz Parker Ortiz Wilder Wladimir Tua Tyson would have OBLITERATED those tiny light heavyweights
After little white Rocky abruptly 'Quit' boxing during his 'Prime' he immediately abandoned his family to sleep with thousands, then left them penniless. What a soab - Classy guy though.
95% of little Marciano's opponents were of dubious quality with lousy records. And considering his has-been on the downward slide ATG opposition, and the fact that he "Quit" during his "Prime", his 49-0 really isn't that good. 🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️ It was commonplace to have 70 fights like Louis and Walcott, or 121 like Charles, or even 219 fights like Moore had during the 30's, 40's and 50's time period. Little Rocky only had 49, which was actually kind of cowardly for that time period.
little white Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
Muhammad Ali said in "The Greatest": "with George I had to let him hit me, with Sonny I had to keep him from hitting me!” Rocky Marciano said of Liston: “He isn't faking his toughness, and his strength is just something you got to see, and that jab, he can knock a man out with the jab!" When asked how he would have fought him, the Rock shook his head and said “I’d have done my best, but Lord God he is strong…” Joe Louis said in Gods of War: "It didn’t matter what stance Sonny fought from, he was the best I ever saw.” Nino Valdes, as he lay dying from cancer, drugged heavily with morphine, was asked by his family if it hurt, and said: “Not as bad as getting hit by Sonny Liston!" Sonny Liston v. Wayne Bethea Aug 1958 -- Referee stops the fight upon discovering many of Bethea's teeth in his mouthpiece. Bethea, a tough journeyman who had never been off his feet, said after being stopped by Liston: “He must have hit me with a horseshoe in his glove!" Liston hit Bethea and knocked out 7 of his teeth, broke 9 more for 16 lost teeth from one blow! Zora Folley, then #1 contender for the heavyweight title, said when Liston hit him: “The lights went out, when I woke up, I asked Sonny, what happened, and he said ‘I hit you." Jonathan Eig wrote of Sonny in Ali: A Life: “Liston does not merely defeat his opponents. He breaks them, shames them, haunts them, leaves them flinching from his punches in their dreams." "When Sonny was forced to throw the Ali rematch, his reputation and legacy went down with him. A predominantly white, racist media always feared and hated Liston, and were only too happy to humiliate him after that bout, and forget about him almost entirely after he died." -- author Paul Gallender The story of Liston winning the title from Patterson, memorizing a thank-you speech to deliver when he arrived back home (memorized because he couldn’t read) and then realizing nobody was waiting for him at the airport, and how crushed he was... fuckin' sad, man. Sonny was born into a family that couldn't afford for him to go to school, and when the family mule died, his mother and sisters claimed Sonny's father hitched his 9 year old son to the plow. Liston was a different breed; what a specimen.
Little Marciano will always be one of my faves but I'm a realist that understands his limitations. Rocky's two best opponents were light heavyweights that simply moved up for the money because the division was completely void of any decent 200+lb 'Heavyweights'. Name ONE prime 200+lb 'Heavyweight' he fought? The answer is ""ZERO""
And why would he care to fight, what you call, a topnotch prime 200+lb Heavyweight? The years Rocky fought, 1947- 1955 it was commonplace for LH's to beat the topnotch prime 200 lb + HW's. During Rocky's era. defeating. who you like to call cruiserweights. Joe Walcott and Ezzard Charles twice each. was considered a much more impressive feat
👍 You know, even the reach of Manny Pacquiaos was more than two inches over that of Marcianos. That's a feat in itself owed to show skill of Marciano. Compact and lethal.
Sonny had a-albatross 84″ reach. Little Rocky had a-stubby 67" reach. A 17″ reach advantage is a tall order to overcome, but when the man with the reach advantage is the most fearsome puncher in history it’s insurmountable. Marciano’s style was tailor made for Liston. Liston’s power and reach would have been too much for the plodding face first Marciano.
And what do you know? You know nothing. Case in point. Here is an earlier post from you and your stolen Louis J. Marciano account Louis J. Marciano 4 weeks ago Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick The problem with your post is it is a big lie. Liston was not 6 ft 2. He was 6 ft. 1. And Liston, in his prime. NEVER weighed 220 lbs. Seriously, where do the lies end with you?
@@Studentofsweetscience Ring Magazine HW all time Greatest Heavyweights from 2017 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. Jack Johnson 4.Rocky Marciano 5.Larry Holmes 6. Jack Dempsey 7 George Foreman 8 Joe Frazier 9 Mike Tyson 10 Sonny Liston
@@Studentofsweetscience And yet you NEVER post any of these so called polls do you? Why is that Freak Boy? And it is pathetic how you try and accuse me of being you Black David. I have one account. How many do you have?
Best conditioned fighter who ever lived...great heart...power...stamina...chin of iron...ridiculous work rate...hurt you no matter where he hit you...never took a backward step...threw punches in bunches...broke bone and blood vessels...pain meant nothing...he feared no man...49-0...43 KO's...put The Rock in with anyone!
After little white Rocky abruptly 'Quit' boxing during his 'Prime' he immediately abandoned his family to sleep with thousands, then left them penniless. What a soab - Classy guy though.
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The great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
@@bobbyd1492 He was 212 verus Cleveland Williams both times. 212 for Foley, 213 when he fought Patterson the first time. He was NEVER 220 in his prime. Never Freak Boy
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
Rocky Marciano was a destroyer of fighters. He overwhelmed his opponents with non-stop aggression and incredible punching power. Most fighters that stepped into the ring with Rocky were ruined or retired. Probably the most destructive fighting force under 190.
The great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
Liston was out of boxing for almost two years between 1956 and 1958 while he was incarcerated again. So he was exiled during his best years when he was just starting to really shine. Most fighters enter their Prime in their late 20’s or early 30's - Sonny was just starting to learn his craft at that age! There is no official record of Sonny Liston's birth date. He was born on a sharecropper’s plot in Arkansas, a state which did not require mandatory birth certificates until 1965. According to his sister and recent research by Paul Gallender in 'Sonny Liston - The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights', Sonny was born in 1919, and was 44 when he fought Ali. His sister, who he was extremely close to, and who remembered his birth - he was much younger than she was - said, "Sonny was born the year after the Great (WW1) War." Which would have made him 44 when he fought Ali and 50 when he inflicted 338 stitches to Chuck Wepner's face. Meantime little Rocky embarrassingly 'up-n-QUIT' at only 31 years of age lmao. How "Pathetic"
Since when did length of career become the defining term for BRAVERY or GREATNESS? When? When did that happen? Never thats when. HW great Joe Frazier retired at the age of 32. He only had 36 professional fights. Jim Brown retired from the NFL at the age of 29. George Mikan, considered the greatest basketball player of the 1st half of the 20th century, also retired at the age of 29. Noone doubts their bravery or greatness. You trying to make length of career a yardstick for measuring bravery or greatness is just another pathetic attempt on your part to belittle Marciano
@@bobbyd1776 WALCOTT LOSSES: 1. In 1930 Walcott was DISQUALIFIED-(loss) vs. KO Palmer. Walcott intentionally hit 159-pound Palmer in the back of his neck while he was draped over the ropes. *Where is the Heavyweights? In 1930 Marciano was "SEVEN" years old. 2. In 1931 163-pound Walcott lost by decision to 158-pound Carl Mays. *Is this the Heavyweight division? Marciano was "EIGHT" years old. 3. In 1933 Walcott lost by decision to 177-pound Henry Taylor. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "TEN" years old. 4. In 1936 Walcott was "KOd" by 191-pound Al Ettore. Marciano was "THIRTEEN" years old. 5. In 1936 Walcott lost by decision to 179-pound Billy Ketchell. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "THIRTEEN" years old. 6. In 1937 Walcott was"KOd" by 178-pound Tiger Jack Fox. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "FOURTEEN" years old. 7. In 1937 Walcott lost by decision to 174-pound George Brothers. *Where is the Heavyweight division? Marciano was "FOURTEEN" years old. 8. In 1938 Walcott lost by decision to 184-pound Tiger Jack Fox "Again". *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "FIFTEEN" years old. 9. In 1938 Walcott lost by decision to 197-pound Roy Lazer. Marciano was "FIFTEEN" years old. 10. In 1940 Walcott was "KOd" AND "retired" for three years by 256-pound Abe Simon. Hey, a-real Super Heavyweight. Simon's best stuff was size and brute strength. Unfortunately he was a poor boxer with terrible defense. Abe retired in 1942. Marciano was "SEVENTEEN" years old. 11. In 1945 Walcott lost by decision to 204-pound Johnny Allen who had more losses than wins. Marciano was "TWENTY TWO" years old. 12. In 1946 Walcott lost by decision to 179-pound Joey Maxim. *Is this the Heavyweight division? Marciano was "TWENTY THREE" years old. 13. In 1946 Walcott lost by decision to 191-pound Elmer Ray. Marciano was "TWENTY THREE" years old. 14. In 1947 Walcott lost by decision to 212-pound Joe Louis. Marciano was "TWENTY FOUR" years old. 15. In 1948 Walcott was KOd by 213-pound Joe Louis. Louis barely got through the C-level cruiserweight Journeyman Walcott so he announced his retirement on March 1, 1949 because his once speedy reflexes were non-existent. Louis was completely washed and it showed. Marciano was "TWENTY FIVE" years old. 16. In 1949 Walcott lost by decision to 181-pound Ezzard Charles. This fight was for the ""vacant"" Heavyweight title. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "TWENTY SIX" years old. 17. In 1950 Walcott lost by decision to 192-pound Rex Layne. Marciano was "TWENTY SEVEN" years old. 18. In 1951 Walcott lost by decision to 185-pound Ezzard Charles. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "TWENTY EIGHT" years old. 19. In 1952 Walcott was KOd by 184-pound Rocky Marciano. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "TWENTY NINE" years old.. IT IS VIRTUALLY IMPRACTICAL THAT WALCOTT WAS IN HIS PRIME vs. MARCIANO BECAUSE IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY AND MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!!!! AND JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY HE WAS PRIME DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!!!! PUT WALCOTT AT (( 29 )) AND MARCIANO AT (( 38 )) WHAT HAPPENS?? 20. In 1953 Walcott was KOd by 184-pound Rocky Marciano. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "THIRTY" years old and Walcott was very close to "FORTY"!!!! ( It was advantages that Marciano started late because he was fresh while the others were already smashed around lik bowling pins for (15) years. Also little Rocky did have an extensive amateur career. His uncle hung a heavy bag in the back yard when he was only 10 years old, and he had years of daily sparing while he was in the military )
@@Jabbing_Jack I do recall you posting numerous times that Walcott weighed up to 197 lbs during his career. Since you are such the Walcott historian now can you tell me how much he weighed for his 1950 fights with Rex Layne and Hein Ten Hoff?
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop little white Rocky then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
Ali fought both Foreman and Liston, and he said that when it came to George he just had to take the hits and wear big George down, in the case of Liston, he simply did not want to get hit at all. So for Ali it was certainly Sonny that hit harder. Foreman trained with Liston after the Olympics, preparing him for pro boxing. George said Sonny was the only man that had ever pushed him backwards with sheer strength alone. He also said that you were always really careful not to make Sonny mad! I think it is pretty safe to say that Sonny Liston hit harder than George Foreman.
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
You white people should know the truth about Rocky, he was homosexual. Sorry if that hurts, but it shouldn't. He had to stay in the closet, it was just the way of the times. Today people like Rocky and me don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed. When I came out it was like taking a huge weight off of my shoulders. But don't wait like I did, I have a wife and kid that I would never had if I had not succumbed to the pressure of trying to act normal. I love Margot, but I'm not in love with her, and she understands, we stay together for our daughter. All three of us share the much of the same clothes, make-up, and interests. We're a pretty happy family.
Rocky was one in a million. Hardest puncher that ever lived according to legendary trainer Don Turner. Little in size ....5'10" 187 lbs. Shorter arms than Manny Pacquiao. Rocky trained 8 months straight for a fight. Insanity. No one ever trained so long. He had a 300 lb custom leather heavy bag made just for him. He hit you anyplace he could find your elbow your biceps your forearm you were in pain. By the third round if you lasted you couldn't lift your arms
Consider that in the Dec. 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano finishing a distant 7th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 7th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Marciano? This is a key point. Boxing historians Herb Goldman and Charley Rose rated Marciano at # 8, "Mr. Boxing, himself," Nat Fleischer rated him at # 10 and John McCallum's Survey of Old Timers (survey of a group of historians and writers) had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Maricano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time Heavyweight and 68 years have passed since Rocky retired. *SO HOW EXACTLY DOES A LITTLE 184 POUND CRUISERWEIGHT WITH DWARFISM ARMS POSSIBLY GO FROM 7TH 8TH 9TH & 10th PLACE DURING THE 60s AND EARLY 70s TO TOP THREE (3) IN 2023???* *Bcus his ranking is now determined by modern computer metric algorithms. Problem is this man-made program was coded to exclude "WEIGHT" from the equation.* That's why little 165lb Heavyweight champion Bob Fitzsimmons from the 1800s is ranked ahead of 240lb Riddick Bowe who only lost "one" time. How's it possible 185lb Marciano ranks higher than Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Vitali, Bowe, Wladimir, Fury etcetera??? *Well now we all know why!!!* Somehow ranking bodies manage to *exclude WEIGHT from their metric* even though they *ACKNOWLEDGE SEVENTEEN (17) DIFFERENT "WEIGHT" CLASSES,,* imagine that. The computer only sees what it's programmed to see. Algorithms only see Marciano fought 4 Hall of Famers and went 49-0, it doesn't see Charles had ALS and 41yr old Moore was a light heavyweight moonlighting at Heavyweight. The algorithms cannot see 37yr old Louis was forced to come out of retirement and 39yr old Journeyman Walcott was given 6 attempts at the title bcus the division was so weak. *THAT'S WHY RANKINGS SHOULD ALWAYS BE LOOKED UPON WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!*
You white people should know the truth about Rocky, he was homosexual. Sorry if that hurts, but it shouldn't. He had to stay in the closet, it was just the way of the times. Today people like Rocky and me don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed. When I came out it was like taking a huge weight off of my shoulders. But don't wait like I did, I have a wife and kid that I would never had if I had not succumbed to the pressure of trying to act normal. I love Margot, but I'm not in love with her, and she understands, we stay together for our daughter. All three of us share the much of the same clothes, make-up, and interests. We're a pretty happy family.
Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
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🔥If anyone was a QUITTER it was Rocky. He-c-o-w-a-r-d-l-y-quit after a measly 7 years during his prime at only 31 while Liston was still fightin at 50. Little lowlife Marciano also "QUIT" on his own kid's and wife!
So Fury, Lewis, Vitali, and Foreman all would have lost if they fought the hyped-up tomato cans little Marciano fought? Give me a break. LaStarza, Savold, Cockell, and Matthews would be humiliated in the real Heavyweight world.
Since when did length of career become the defining term for BRAVERY or GREATNESS? When? When did that happen? Never thats when. HW great Joe Frazier retired at the age of 32. He only had 36 professional fights. Jim Brown retired from the NFL at the age of 29. George Mikan, considered the greatest basketball player of the 1st half of the 20th century, also retired at the age of 29. Noone doubts their bravery or greatness. You trying to make length of career a yardstick for measuring bravery or greatness is just another pathetic attempt on your part to belittle Marciano
Actually the comparison between Brown and Marciano is an excellent one. It is not quite as good as the comparison between Frazier and Rocky but it is an excellent one nonetheless. Football and boxing are 2 extremely violent sports so the comparison is easy to see for anyone with half a brain.
🔥If anyone was a QUITTER it was Rocky. He-c-o-w-a-r-d-l-y-quit after a measly 7 years during his prime at only 31 while Liston was still fightin at 50. Little lowlife Marciano also "QUIT" on his own kid's and wife!
Rocky picks up in the 2nd Walcott fight right where he left off in the 1st, in which he flattens Joe using a left feint followed up by the Suzie Q right for the KO. In the 2nd fight Marciano feints right/left before the right uppercut that knocks him down. The Rock solved the Walcott style in the first fight, and Joe retired after this one, realizing Marciano had his number. Once he found a way in he never forgot how. Rocky was devastation in rematches.
Little Marciano will always be one of my faves but I'm a realist that understands his limitations. Rocky's two best opponents were light heavyweights that simply moved up for the money because the division was completely void of any decent 200+lb 'Heavyweights'. Name ONE prime 200+lb 'Heavyweight' he fought? The answer is ""ZERO""
So Marciano threw 100 punches in a round? Lol give me a break. Number one Marciano only weighed 185. So even if he threw 100 punches in a round what would that prove? Why compare a light heavyweight punch numbers to a true-Heavyweight. Only sik-minded fanboys would even try to compare.
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost *"Time"* tends to give to a fighters ranking. 1962: In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the #1 Heavyweight of all-time, with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th. 1971: In 1971, Nat Fleischer, boxing's most famous historian and also editor and founder of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the all-time 10th greatest Heavyweight champion. 1998: Despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's et al.," in 1998, Ring magazine named Marciano as the 6th greatest Heavyweight champion ever. 2005: We float around to 2005, and in 2005, Marciano was named the 5th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by the International Boxing Research Organization. 2007: In 2007, Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by ESPN behind (in order) Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and Jack Dempsey. 2023: We skip to the modern day, and somehow he's been bumped up to 3rd. Will he one day be greater than Ali??? It's easy to see little Rocky's progression. The key is understanding *why?* Despite his perfect record against the weakest 'Heavyweight' division of all-time, Marciano was never close to being rated towards the top throughout the 60s. So why did he climb from *10th* in 71, *6th* in 98, to *4th* in 07? Becus the greatest boxing historian whoever lived and founder of The Ring Mr. Boxing himself Nat Fleischer died in 72. They all started passing away including Rocky in 69. That's when his fame really started to grow. Don't get me wrong, little Rocky was extremely famous to Italians throughout the upper east coast but that was about it. *After his death is when all the sympathy articles begin to appear. Then it just grew and grew to the point where he could walk on water and beat every Super Heavyweight champion with ease. Little Rocky was so awesome that Don Turner said, "Marciano could KO both Klitschko brothers at the same time in the first round."* *Little Marciano was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , because when he walked the earth shook.*
Foreman, probably the most formidable puncher in boxing history said that Liston is the only man he ever faced that made him back-up and revert to boxing. Much bigger, stronger sluggers like Liston, Foreman and Ibeabuchi would knock little Marciano into tomorrow before he could get close enough to land any shots of his own. Watch footage of Foreman destroying Frazier twice and Liston destroying Patterson twice. That’s exactly what would happen to little Marciano if he met a prime Liston!!!
Marciano simply walked away from boxing and his family to fullfil his wicked desires of sleeping with thousands. He also turned to loansharking and needless to say, left his family penniless!
Facts combined with simple basic boxing knowledge suggest wins for Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Holmes Ali Wladimir Foreman Tyson Joyce Tua Usyk Holyfield Bruno Ruddock Witherspoon Whyte Parker Ruiz Ortiz Dokes Mercer Rahman Shavers Lyle Thomas Weaver Dokes Liston Morrison Grant Cooney Wilder, and twenty more over little 185 lb Marciano.
Could all those guys beat Mike Tyson? Coz Rocky would have. He deserves more respect than you’re giving him. He’s in the top 5 heavyweights of all time, and you talking about him like he’s a little kid.
@@mattcorcoran7082 185 ain't no Heavyweight. Rocky Marciano was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Marciano biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67 inches (1.70 meters)--incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison, today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7 inch reach, longer than Rocky's. There is no question that Marciano was superbly conditioned by the standards of the day; however, at his fighting weight of 184-189lbs (roughly 83-86kg) during his title defences, he was not incredibly lean and he wasn't dehydrated; he was, in other words, a natural light heavyweight or very small cruiserweight by today's standards. "Walking around weight" isn't a useful metric for determining a boxer's ideal weight division or in-the-ring weight unless one knows--at the very least--the boxer's bodyfat percentage at his "walking around weight". Some boxers stay lean between fights, others get quite fat. Marciano always stayed lean. For 7 years his average weight was 184lbs. In other words Marciano never was nor could ever be a natural 200+lb Heavyweight.
Rocky Marciano said of Liston: “He isn't faking his toughness, and his strength is just something you got to see, and that jab, he can knock a man out with the jab!" When asked how he would have fought him, the Rock shook his head and said “I’d have done my best, but Lord God he is strong…”
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
You white people should know the truth about Rocky, he was homosexual. Sorry if that hurts, but it shouldn't. He had to stay in the closet, it was just the way of the times. Today people like Rocky and me don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed. When I came out it was like taking a huge weight off of my shoulders. But don't wait like I did, I have a wife and kid that I would never had if I had not succumbed to the pressure of trying to act normal. I love Margot, but I'm not in love with her, and she understands, we stay together for our daughter. All three of us share the much of the same clothes, make-up, and interests. We're a pretty happy family.
@@blackdavidfrostnDesMoines What kind of garbage are you spewing. Marciano was a light heavyweight and in a different weight class. You cannot compare a different era like that. The Gypsy wins by being massive. He has little boxing skill and is as clumsy as they make them. Foreman, Norton, Frazier, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis, the real Tyson, would have all eatin him for lunch and spit out his damn bones.
@@Studentofsweetscience You know the sport, clearly. I can't dispute one thing you say. I would say that Rock lasts longer than Floyd. He would get some shots in close, but he would absorb too much punishment. Even if he could I see Liston opening up cuts with his smashing jab and blows. I cannot disrespect Rocky though. 49-0.
One would think since Marciano was only 185 that he would at least have faster hands than the true Heavyweights right? But Maricano had the slowest hands I've ever seen on a boxer.
Y'all white Marciano lovers fail to ever mention Marciano's Forced retirement. Why? Because Marciano couldn't take the pain anymore from two confirmed nose surgeries, hand surgery, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used as a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around,, here,, you hit me five times,, and I'll hit you back one time,, Duh. And all that talk about retiring for his family nonsense was simply a bull•••• publicity stunt because he immediately abandoned his family and left them penniless when he perished.
So Marciano threw 100 punches in a round? Lol give me a break. Number one Marciano only weighed 185. So even if he threw 100 punches in a round what would that prove? Why compare a light heavyweight punch numbers to a true-Heavyweight. Only sik-minded fanboys would even try to compare.
In 1962 Ring Magazine polled 40 boxing experts on who was the greatest Heavyweight of all-time. These are historians who were actually there when he reigned as champion and Marciano's highest ranking was 7th place. The overwhelming majority rated him lower like Nat Fleischer had him at # 10, Charley Rose and McCallum's survey of old-timers rated him at # 9. All these people were born in the late 1800s and passed away in the 1960s and 70s. Little 184lb Marciano is regarded by many as the greatest Heavyweight ever, best of the best. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights?? I don't see how his status remotely moves up with the multitude of great Heavyweights that came after him. All the professionals, trainers, managers, experts and historians who actually saw Rocky Marciano fight during the 50s and 60s thoroughly examined his career yet they barely ranked him top-10 Heavyweight, of all-time. *I trust Nat's opinion before y'all's gibberish casual diatribe.* Genius Nat Fleischer (1887-1972) was the founder, president, publisher and editor of The Ring, a monthly magazine devoted to boxing and professional wrestling. Fleischer is called Mr. Boxing, or in the cant of masters of ceremony, "Mr. Boxing, himself," an introduction uniting man and legend. Fleischer’s story in many ways is the story of boxing. His experience is unlike that of anyone else from boxing’s past and certainly no one will ever be able to make his claims in the future. In 1958 Fleischer wrote, “I have been on intimate terms with every heavyweight champion since James J. Corbett. I have seen almost every heavyweight championship bout in the past half century, and most of those in other divisions that reach across a stretch of many exciting years.” Fleischer in fact saw every heavyweight champion from Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier from ringside, most of those from the first row. Possibly no one else in history can make that claim. Fleischer’s unique perspective demands respect from those who are interested in the history of boxing. Nat tended to just report the fights as he saw it from ringside and did not editorialize too much. Nat was well known for his ability to break down and describe the styles of fighters and the action that took place in the ring. Here are some descriptions of fighters there is film on so we can compare what Nat said of them to what we know from the films. We can then know that what he said about fighters whom we have little film on is also accurate. Of Joe Louis he penned, in the April 1939 Ring, “He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests.” In the Mar. 1942 Ring, after Louis' destruction of the 6'6" 250 pound Buddy Baer, Nat Said that “Not even in the second fight with Max Schmeling did the Detroit Destroyer show as much as he did against Buddy. Joe had everything. He was magnificent. He was a whirlwind on attack, a master of defense, a terror with his devastating punches.” In evaluating Rocky Marciano he wrote December 1955 Ring, “Those who believe that he lacks the necessary qualifications for gaining a niche in the fistic hall of fame as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time won’t argue that as a puncher, he takes his place alongside such greats as Jeffries, Louis and Dempsey. They limit his qualifications for greatness to the category of “hitting power”, strength and durability all of which Rocky possesses to a high degree but which are *insufficient to gain for him a place among the greats of the past.”* “Despite his crudeness, he can move about the ring at a pretty fast gate and can toss more punches than any heavyweight of recent years. But misses more frequently than any champion I’ve ever seen.” *“He has faced very few real punchers during his career.* The two best, Walcott and Moore- both thirty-eight at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. *Joe Louis is not included* since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.” Besides putting out the highly regarded Ring-Fleischer has published Nat Fleischer's Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia.The Ring Record Book is the most comprehensive of all annual reference sources on boxing. Mainly in the interests of boxing, Fleischer has made 37 trips to Europe and has gone around the world six times, furiously writing all the while. He has 20 passports. Discounting entertainers, Fleischer is the most widely known U.S. private citizen abroad. He is enshrined in the Helms Hall of Fame in Los Angeles. Fleischer has refereed and judged more than 1,000 fights. All told, Fleischer has published 57 books of history, biography and instruction on boxing. Fleischer has a 268,800-word "bibliography" of boxing. Counting his articles for The Ring and serials and pieces he dashes off in an hour or so for foreign publications, it has been estimated that Fleischer has written 40 million words in his lifetime.
@@loveboxinglucky1716 It was a scripted fraudulent match. It gives no inside how their fight would have played out. Marchegiano was 45 then. He wouldn't have lasted 5 rounds against the GOAT
@@trainhardeatsleeprepeat189 Ali was just being humble. How many times throughout Ali's career did he say, "I am The Greatest of All Time"? Hundreds if not thousands.
The rock had respect everyone deserves respect at that level he said Noone better than anyone were all human not perfect on can hope for perfection. If you have hope your h
236 lb Ike Ibeabuchi holds the Heavyweight record for most punches ever thrown against David Tua. Super Heavyweight Ibeabuchi outworked and showed more heart than little Rocky was ever capable of. No Super Heavyweight of his generation possessed more ability. He was a prodigy. He had amazing power. He had fierce determination and he had no fear of anybody, he believed that nobody could beat him. Ike was a Super Heavyweight with serious power, great speed, chin of iron, a boxer and a brawler, freakish stamina, threw punches in bunches with KO written all over them, and had a ridiculous workrate. It's laughable to even to even think about little 188 lb Marciano vs. 245 lb Ibeabuchi. Ike woulda walked through little Rocky like a hot spoon going through butter.
He was also a “nut case”. Sanity, ring intelligence, and character, are ALSO critical traits of champions. They are used in the ring! Ibeabuchi possessed NONE of these!
@@mariaorsic9763 When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle, and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two warriors stood toe to toe and gave it their all, showing exceptional heart and endurance. I try my best to envision light heavyweights Charles and Moore fightin "The Tuamanator" and always end up laughing. And "The President" would have walked through cruiserweights Marciano and Walcott as if they were invisible. Marciano was the best during his little post war era three generations ago but he wouldn't be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to undefeated 270lb Joyce, undefeated 263lb Makhmudov, undefeated 248lb Sanchez, undefeated 247lb Hrgovic, undefeated 245lb Anderson, and undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few. And then there are so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Holmes Ali Foreman Liston Tyson Tua Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Parker Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney and Wilder. I could "easily" list another 25.
Here we go the usual critique.Never heard of Ike but who was he? Was he a champ? Marciano-49-0,185 lbs of perfect conditioned Italian American excellence.
@@carlrball 44 Marciano opponents: We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using US school grades A, B, C, D, and F. Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level) Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level) Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs (F-level) Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs (F-level) Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs (F-level) James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs (F-level) Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs (F-level) Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs (F-level) Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs (F-level) Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs (F-level) Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs (F-level) Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (F-level) Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs (D-level) Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs (F-level) Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs (F-level) Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs (F-level) Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs (F-level) Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs F-level) Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs F-level) Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (F-level) Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (F-level) Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs (F-level) Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs (F-level) Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs (F-level) Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs (D-level) Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs (D-level) Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs (D-level) Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs (F-level) Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs (D-level) Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck. Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-level resume. Problem is he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion? Even Marciano's best 3 opponents Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times. Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano? *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0.. WAY TOO MANY HOMELESS WALK-IN D AND F-LEVEL BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR EASY $$$.. OR BEING FORCED TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET OF BOXING DURING THE 50s!!! EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM.. THE DAY AFTER HE RETIRED HE IMMEDIATELY ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS.. CRY AND SCREAM ALL YA WANT BECAUSE IT CANNOT EVER SWEEP IT UNDER THE CARPET!!! IT WAS REAL AND VERY WELL DOCUMENTED SO STOP LIVING IN DENIAL
Bert Sugar and Jimmy Cannon were sports journalist inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for their vast amounts of boxing knowledge. @1:00:00 Bert Sugar said, "It wasn't a great heavyweight division at this time." Then Bert quotes Jimmy Cannon who said, "Because of the mobs influence at the time, Rocky Marciano stands out like a rose in a Garbage Dump." Mr. Sugar was widely regarded as the “boxing bible," and he just said, "Rocky's era was not great." I trust his opinion, someone who was actually there. Don Turner wasn't there, he never actually saw Marciano fight in person. Rocky fans love to use positive quote after quote to defend their little hero but totally ignore any and all negative quotes. Just sweep-em under the carpet. Double standard.
Great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS, who was like fodder fed to a pitbull, kinda like when they fed Larry Holmes to an angry Mike Tyson, or allowed Ali to be served up to Holmes.
Society shouldn't care more about person X just because he was a good boxer. Little Marciano was no more important than everyday hard-working people. He only defended his cruiserweight title 6 times against 5 light heavyweights and 1 cruiserweight. That's it? What's the big deal? What's so great about that? For a world Heavyweight champion title holder it don't get any worse than that. And considering his opponents bodyweight it's downright embarrassing.
236 lb Ike Ibeabuchi holds the Heavyweight record for most punches ever thrown against David Tua. Super Heavyweight Ibeabuchi outworked and showed more heart than little Rocky was ever capable of. No Super Heavyweight of his generation possessed more ability. He was a prodigy. He had amazing power. He had fierce determination and he had no fear of anybody, he believed that nobody could beat him. Ike was a Super Heavyweight with serious power, great speed, chin of iron, a boxer and a brawler, freakish stamina, threw punches in bunches with KO written all over them, and had a ridiculous workrate. It's laughable to even to even think about little 188 lb Marciano vs. 245 lb Ibeabuchi. Ike woulda walked through little Rocky like a hot spoon going through butter.
Marciano was beat by 177 pound Ted Lowry and was almost knocked out by him. Lowry could of knocked out Marciano when ever he choose too but held back. Marciano was knocked down by blown up middleweight Archie Moore with one punch. Even though Moore was past his prime and knocked out various times in his prime by guys in his own size. Including being blown away in 1 round by Leonard Morrow a average fighter. It took Marciano 9 or so odd rounds and numerous knock downs to finish him. Ezzard Charles was on a downward slide in his career. He was 2-2 in his previous 4 bouts before he fought Marciano and something like 10-14 in his bouts after Marciano. Charles was a natural 180 or so odd pound fighter yet he was a go the distance with Marciano in their first fight even though Walcott knocked him out with one punch years before. Jersey Joe Walcott was past his physical prime. I believe he was pusing 40. Had been fighting for 20 plus years by the time he fought Marciano. He was knocked out various times and lost to various fighters in his prime. Even poor or average fighters beat him and stopped him. Yet a washed up version was still able to floor Marciano and compleletly outbox him until he was stopped. Which is funny how Marciano fans act like stopping a washed up Walcott proves something when your chin gets worse with age and he was stopped easier in his prime. Joe Louis was a 190 to 200 pound guy in his prime. Known for his class chin and his lack of opponents. When your opponents are called the "bum of the month club" and you are fighting guys who were 3-3 in title fights then we have a problem. Louis was knocked out by Max Schemling a 180 to 90 pound fighter in his prime much easier than Marciano did a washed up version of Louis. Various other guys either hurt or knocked a prime verison of Joe down. Yet to this very day you Marciano fans who live in your fantasy world still believe he can beat a modern sized heavyweight. He never faced one. Which means he never beat on. But we do know he was almost knocked out by fighters his own size. Marciano has to be the most overrated, biggest joke in the history of boxing. But as I said I know what kind of fans he has and why they like him.
What a shame little Rocky had flyweight arm reach. 184 is barely cruiserweight. Never in the history of boxing has a 184-lb man beat an elite Super Heavyweight Champion. The tiny 50s are gone and little man syndrome has left the building. Adieu.
Of the 61 fights that Clay/Ali fought 29 wouldn't be allowed nowadays as heavyweight because one or both opponents were below 200 lbs at the time of the bout. In other words they would run as cruiser fights (or below) and Klitschko wouldn't be allowed to stage them. Of the remaining 32 fights Ali lost 4. I am talking about being a cruiser AT THE TIME OF THE BOUT e.g. Ali vs Jimmy Robinson 177 lbs or Ali vs Alex Miteff (with Ali himself being 188 lbs). If one would additionally delete FORMER cruisers off Ali's record (= those boxers who boxed below 200 lbs at some point in their career) then Clay/Ali's record would be 13-1. Take for example Bob Foster vs Ali. Foster himself (56-7) is a non-bummy boxer. That's good. But a win against Foster is WORTHLESS for a heavyweight record comparison. Foster was 180 lbs at the time of the bout. Foster's worthiness in terms Heavyweight (as it is defined nowadays) is ZERO. Marciano was 184 lbs at the time of the bout. Marciano's worthiness in terms Heavyweight (as it is defined nowadays) is ZERO!!!
*ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* *People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.* *In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."* *Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Cockell was a Brit who’d turned pro in 1946 at age 17, and by 1949 had matured into a light heavyweight. In reality, he was a fat light heavyweight who'd been knocked out 5 times by opponents far less imposing than Marciano. Cockell who now looked like the Pillsbury Doughboy decided a knife and fork could be his meal ticket to a Big-time payday vs. Marciano.
Joe Walcott was 37 years old when he fought Marciano and Archie Moore was 39. Joe Louis was also 37 years old when they fought. Fighters passed their primes.
It's interesting how people who experienced watching Marciano in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he quit (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's, etc.). There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record. But the reality is heart and determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats have. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc. It is also interesting how the same people who want to consider Rocky the greatest Heavyweight because he was undefeated are reluctant to consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound. Why is that? It's just flat lazy to look at 49-0 and conclude that he must be the best ever. Based on that, then you MUST consider Floyd Mayweather the greatest pound for pound fighter of all-time since he's 50-0,, right?
@@beatlejim64 Rocky's numbers may not lie, *but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion.* So let's examine those 13 opponents *(not in order)* that he supposedly *FORCED INTO RETIREMENT* instantaneously. #1) *Amateur* Lee Epperson - *0 wins 0 losses.* Shameful to even count this as "Forced-Retirement." *Retired from what??* He never even had a career. Epperson was probably *15 years old like Walcott and Moore were* when they first started. #2) *Amateur* Jimmy Weeks - *0 wins 0 losses.* Embarrassing to count this as "Forced-Retirement." *Probably another 15 year old.* #3) *Amateur* John Edwards - *1 win 1 loss.* Y'all gonna count this as *"Forced Retirement"* also??? #4) We factually know that ring-worn-n-washed Joe Louis only came back because the *IRS-FORCED him to.* As soon as IRS took Joe's purse for fightin Rocky he was *finally outta there for good!!!!* #5) Walcott only returned for Marciano-2 for another *easy $250K.* Walcott received the *lions share both fights.* Had Walcott continued fightin he would have only received a *fraction* of that. *$250K back then is $2.6 million today.* Little Rocky never "Forced-Retirement" upon Walcott,, he *"QUIT"!!!!* #6) Lee Savold age was 36 with *153 bouts.* His manager, *Bill Daily, asked referee Pete Tomasso to stop the uneven match at the end of the sixth round. "The will was there but not the body," said Daily. "I'm going to advise Lee to retire Tomorrow."* Lee didn't even throw a punch, he just stood there like a heavy punching bag. *Completely washed* Savold was only there for his last *Big-Paycheck!!!!* #7) 254-lb Humphrey *"The-Bum"* Jackson - *4 wins 2 losses* with 28% KO's *F-LEVEL* Jackson never beat a winning fighter. It only took *0:34** seconds* for Jackson to be KO'd in his first fight, and *1:28* in his last fight. The less said about *"The-Bum"* the better. #8) Jimmy Evans - *18 wins 8 losses* with 50% KO's *F-LEVEL* Evans fought *10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Evans weighed 178 lbs. *Too many light heavyweights.* #9) Harry Haft - *12 wins 8 losses* with 35% KO's *F-LEVEL* Harry was only 5' 9" 174 lbs. *Isn't this supposed to be the Heavyweight division???* #10) Gino Buonvino - *24 wins 15 losses* with *10%* KO's *F-LEVEL* Marciano fights Buonvino *"TWICE"* ..why??? #11) Eldridge Eatman - *22 wins 21 losses* with 22% KO's *F-LEVEL* Marciano fought Eatman who had just lost *8 of his last 9 fights* Rocky's handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone decent after coming so close to losing against LaStarza. *"'Eatman proved no opposition for Marciano,'" according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, "'Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT'"* ..Eatman's profession was *paddin records.* #12) Pete Louthis was 32-13-5 with 35% KO's *F-LEVEL* Pete fought *amateur* Willie James with a *0-0-0 debut* record only 2 fights before facing Marciano. Pete fought *10 amateurs with 0-0-0 debut* records. For Pete's sake he also fought another *20 opponents that had 10 or less fights.* #13) Carmine Vingo -- 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KO's looks okay until you see *ALL 16* wins came against *F-LEVEL* opponents. The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. *He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."* Rocky's manager Al Weill said the same thing in Marciano's biography 'Unbeaten', *"Vingo hit his head on the flooring, then he went unconscious."* So it was the plywood flooring that partially paralyzed Vingo, not Marciano's punch. It's no wonder *Vingo said, "I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin* After all this time i was *mislead* into believing that Vingo was this twenty year old superstar being prepped to become the next Heavyweight champ. Instead he was prepped for *SLAUGHTER JUST TO PLEASE A CROWD --Carmine Vingo* *IT APPEARS LITTLE ROCKY DID NOT FORCE-RETIRE ""ANY"" OF THESE BOXERS*
@@beatlejim64 44 Marciano opponents: We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good *B-LEVEL* resume. Problem is *he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?* Even Marciano's *best 3 opponents Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times.* Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. *Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat?* Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. *Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?* *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *WAY TOO MANY HOMELESS WALK-IN F-LEVEL BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR EASY $$$ OR BEING FORCED TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET OF BOXING DURING THE 1950s* *EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM* *THEY DIDN'T LITERALLY CONTROL HIM BUT THEY DID TAKE 60% OF ALL HIS EARNINGS AND VERY CAREFULLY PADDED HIS RECORD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE* The *entire* eastern seaboard was *Italian,* it was *all Italian.* Even the commissioner of boxing was Italian. Al Weill, Rocky's *mafioso manager* and *matchmaker* at the Garden *took* 50% and *all ticket sales* which pushed it closer to *60%.* Marciano had *no choice* but to *comply* or *no contract.* Enormous criminal empires had been built on the supply of illegal liquor during the Prohibition era. *Italian* Al Capone’s the most infamous among them. When prohibition came to an end in 1933, after more than a decade of lucrative and bloody endeavour for the Mob, *they needed* something *new.* Access to the machinery of *boxing,* a wilfully unfettered anarchy proved remarkably easy to acquire. *Boxing was now fertile ground for the Mafia.* *They controlled it all,* from the *trainers* and *managers* to the reporting *journalists,* with a combination of *intimidation* and financial backing ensuring *everybody* the mob *wanted* was under *their control.* *THE DAY AFTER RETIREMENT HE IMMEDIATELY ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS*
@@beatlejim64 Too many Rocky fans *don't do a deep drive into examining his career. That magical 49-0 is the shiny coin so many can not see beyond.* LaStarza was one of Marciano's best opponents, he was 37-0. How many of y'all *actually studied the 37 guys LaStarza fought?* Well *here they are:* We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.* #37) Cesar Brion - 49 wins 11 losses with 36% KOs *C-LEVEL* looks okay until ya *see how many of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians* Walter Hafer - 22 wins 26 losses with 26% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jackie Lyons - 32 wins 24 losses with 23% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Carollo - 36 wins 17 losses with 16% KOs *D-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Weinberg - 44 wins 22 losses with 34% KOs *D-LEVEL* Gene Gosney - 14 wins 5 losses with 42% KOs *C-minus-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Mike Jacobs - 14 wins 16 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Mel McKinney - 8 wins 10 losses with 5% KOs *F-LEVEL* Teddy Georges - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Oscar Goode - 43 wins 23 losses with 20% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tony Gangemi - 21 wins 18 losses with 26% KOs *F-LEVEL* Benny Rusk - 20 wins 17 losses with 27% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred McManus - 18 wins 19 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Holloway - 2 wins 11 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Claude McClintock - 1 win 9 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Steve King - 21 wins 11 losses with 17% KOs *D to F-LEVEL* Jimmy White - 9 wins 17 losses with 11% KOs *F-LEVEL* Frankie Reed - 2 wins 14 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Mike Belluscio - 15 wins 10 losses with 37% KOs *F-LEVEL* Luther McMillan - 13 wins 19 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Ramsey - 8 wins 12 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lorne McCarthy - 2 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Zeke Brown - 0 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jim Johnson - 3 wins 22 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Dodd - 8 wins 12 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Al Zappala - 20 wins 27 losses with 9% KOs *F-LEVEL* Zack Johnson - 3 wins 7 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Dave Glanton - 1 win 13 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* *Lewis Watson, the boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition, saying: “Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition."* *"Promoters lookin for a way to get their prizefighters a big payoff will first invest thousands of dollars in padding his numbers against truly horrendous opponents. A guy who’s undefeated at 37-0, for example, might not be any better than a more seasoned boxer with a lousy record."* -- The Ring Magazine *THE WORST 37-0 EVER.* Roland was well protected and very carefully managed. There are so many names from his era conspicuously missing from his record. LaStarza's only claim to fame was having lost a close decision to Marciano. *End of story.* "His reputation was built on the first Rocky fight. Although he had a long winning streak at the beginning of his career, there are no tough names on his record. After the first Marciano fight he could have forced the issue by meeting top fighters. He refused fights with Charles, Moore, Clarence Henry, Bob Baker etc. Lost and avenged to overstuffed light heavy Dan Bucceroni and to light heavy Rocky Jones and looked terrible against Jones in the rematch. The Jones win and a victory over the faded Rex Layne gave him the credentials to meet Rocky for the title. A fight I am told Rocky was more intent on giving Roland a beating for all of the talk that he "was afraid" to meet LaStarza again. Look at LaStarza's record there are no names on it except for Marciano. I have the complete film of the Jones rematch and believe me LaStarza looked terrible. LaStarza NEVER fought a dangerous opponent except Marciano and thats a fact if you know any of the fighters from his era. I am not saying that LaStarza was a coward but he (or, excuse me, his management) refused matches with Henry, Charles, Baker, and Archie Moore. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much, saying he wouldn't take those matches because he "deserved" a rematch with Marciano and thought he was offered the other matches by the IBC only because they were trying to knock him out of "his rightful shot at Marciano." Boo Hoo Hoo. Real, confident fighters go out and prove they deserve their shot by beating dangerous fighters to force a showdown with a champion." -- *Chuck Hasson Boxing Historian and Philly Boxing Founder* LaStarza was coming off a loss and a win against 14-9-2 Rocky Jones. Layne had lost to the unrated 12-2 Willie James and a light heavyweight contender. The winner of this garbage gets a world title shot against a guy who already beat BOTH of them. *Heavyweight contenders today aren't rated at the top after they lose to unranked journeymen and light heavyweights.* *LaStarza vs. Layne (uploader William Walker)* reminds me of watching two midwest *club fighters* fightin a *4* rounder on an old ESPN card from Muncie, In. *Two guys who were not well schooled, standing in front of each other acting like they were insulted if the other guy missed them with a punch. A lot of right hand leads, a lot of jabs with the rear foot leaving the canvas, little/no counter punching, just two guys willing to get hit but showing little boxing skill.* Look how bad Rex Layne swings and misses. *What an oaf.*
Even if Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
Lou Duva was asked "what do you think about Ezzard Charles" @59:48 he said, "remember he was a Light heavyweight that moved up." Of course he did becuz there were no genuine Heavyweights to stop him. Name ""ONE"" topnotch prime 200+lbs Heavyweight Marciano fought??? The answer would be ""ZERO""!!!!
After little white Rocky abruptly 'Quit' boxing during his 'Prime' he immediately abandoned his family to sleep with thousands, then left them penniless. What a soab - Classy guy though.
Marciano's style will play into Liston’s giant hands, as it will violate one of boxing’s holy grail rules and that is, “never slug with a bigger slugger.” Especially when that slugger’s name is Sonny Liston; simply put Liston does it all better than Marciano and also has height, weight and major reach advantage. I can see Liston’s jab being an even more formidable weapon than usual in this matchup, as he won’t have to go looking for Marciano. To put the concept of reach into perspective, you have Liston with a monster 84” reach compared to little Marciano’s 67” reach- this would be decisive. I would favour Liston in a big way. Rocky gets flattened faster than Floyd Patterson.
After little white Rocky abruptly 'Quit' boxing during his 'Prime' he immediately abandoned his family to sleep with thousands, then left them penniless. What a soab - Classy guy though.
Little Rocky's 184-lb punching power does not come close to a 245-lb to 275-lb Ibeabuchi, Lewis, Vitali, Foreman or Fury type of Heavier Weighted Power which effortlessly produces more torque and leverage. If one had to break-up a large boulder would he use an 8-oz ball peen hammer or an 8-lb sledgehammer??? SIZE MATTERS otherwise boxing wouldn't have 18 different weight classes. Featherweights would be fightin middleweights and cruisers would be fightin Super Heavies. There are no height divisions, age divisions or reach division, because weight at heavyweight boxing is one of the most important factor. Super Heavyweights are increasing because Eastern European fighters are now allowed to fight in USA since around 2000 (Hall of Fame Klitschko brothers dominated Heavyweight boxing for TWENTY years) and international travel is much easier compared to 30 40 50 years ago. Even a new Bridgerweight division between 200 and 224 lbs was recently added because too many 215 lb heavyweights complained. We'll never-ever see tiny-cruiserweights 181-lb Charles or 184-lb Marciano as Heavyweight Champions again! Boxing has evolved , *SIZE MATTERS LIKE IT OR NOT*
What about washed-up 40 year old Louis and nobody cares about washed-up light heavyweights Charles Moore and Walcott. Authentic Heavyweights King Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ali Holmes Foreman Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Dokes Grant Povetkin Whyte Ruiz Parker Ortiz Wilder Wladimir Tua Tyson would have OBLITERATED those tiny light heavyweights.
Regarding cherry picking quotes praising Marciano, you honestly don't think I could find twice as many narratives about the greatness of Ali, Louis, Foreman, Holmes, Lennox, Vitali, Tyson, Frazier, Wladimir, Holyfield, Fury or Ibeabuchi??? I don't have a problem if Marciano is your favorite fighter, but you're heading down a slippery slope if you're trying to make the case for him being the best "Heavyweight" ever especially considering he was barely a cruiserweight with flyweight arm reach. The reality is little Rocky's heart-n-determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats had. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc.
John Durant, author of The Heavyweight Champions, wrote in 1971 (p. 123): "Critics do not rate Rocky with the great ones, like Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney and Louis. He never faced top fighters like they did. It was not Rocky's fault, of course, that there was a lack of talent when he was boxing." *So with all that being said how the heck does a little cruiserweight rank as the 3rd or 4th greatest Super Heavyweight of all-time??? B•••💩 that's how!*
Wow you read in a book that since Marciano trained hard that means he couldn't lose right? Marciano had a strong desire to win? So i guess Frazier wanted Foreman to kick his butt right? Because Frazier had no desire to win....they all wanted to lose. Only Marciano had a desire to win right?
So Fury, Lewis, Vitali, and Foreman all would have lost if they fought the hyped-up tomato cans little Marciano fought? Give me a break. LaStarza, Savold, Cockell, and Matthews would be humiliated in the real Heavyweight world.
You white people should know the truth about Rocky, he was homosexual. Sorry if that hurts, but it shouldn't. He had to stay in the closet, it was just the way of the times. Today people like Rocky and me don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed. When I came out it was like taking a huge weight off of my shoulders. But don't wait like I did, I have a wife and kid that I would never had if I had not succumbed to the pressure of trying to act normal. I love Margot, but I'm not in love with her, and she understands, we stay together for our daughter. All three of us share the much of the same clothes, make-up, and interests. We're a pretty happy family.
Y'all Rocky fan's write a lot of interesting stuff but ya never address the actual issue of bodyweight so your “research” gets you no-where. Are you seriously suggesting Charles and Moore were anywhere near their natural fighting weight? *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?*
People describes little white Marciano as being so ferocious that he basically killed all 49 of his opponents in the ring. Marciano vids are filled with fan boys exaggerated-hyperbole-comments about Rocky's power. But what people fails to tell everyone is that LaStarza (with all his "Broken Bones" and "Ruptured Blood Vessels") simply had minor surgery and was fightin exactly 6 months later. Layne only had 4 broken teeth and was fightin exactly 3 months later - Wiki. These are all normal boxing injuries. Notice how these Marciano lovers never wanna discuss his injuries? Like 2 confirmed nose surgeries, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used like a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around, here, you hit me 5 times and I'll hit you back one time, Duh.
Rocky fans always use his "0" as their main argument to prop him up. I suggest you research Marciano's opponents, analyze their records, review who he beat. For example have you even bothered to look at the guys LaStarza beat and their records before fighting Marciano?
Archie Moore was born December 13, 1913. LH champion Moore moved up in weight to fight Marciano at the age of 41. Imagine if Rocky was 41 and moved up in weight to fight 31yr old Archie? The fallacy that Moore, Walcott and Louis were all prime at 37, 38/39 and 41yrs of age is misleading and scientifically impossible.
"Even in his prime, Rocky Marciano had no chance with me. First thing, he is too little. Less than five foot ten to my six foot three inches. I’d overwhelm him. I’d lay on him in the clinches like a big old grizzly bear, and I’d smother his insides out. He was too small to reach me from out- side. I’d jab him twenty to one. Rocky had a face that cut easily. Can you imagine what my stinging jab would do to those weak eyes? How could he beat me? No way, is how." - Muhammad Ali
44 Marciano opponents: We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good *B-LEVEL* resume. Problem is *he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?*
Even Marciano's *best 3 opponents Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times.* Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. *Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat?* Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. *Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?*
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*WAY TOO MANY HOMELESS WALK-IN F-LEVEL BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR EASY $$$ OR BEING FORCED TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET OF BOXING DURING THE 1950s*
*EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM*
*THEY DIDN'T LITERALLY CONTROL HIM BUT THEY DID TAKE 60% OF ALL HIS EARNINGS AND VERY CAREFULLY PADDED HIS RECORD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE*
The *entire* eastern seaboard was *Italian,* it was *all Italian.* Even the commissioner of boxing was Italian. Al Weill, Rocky's *mafioso manager* and *matchmaker* at the Garden *took* 50% and *all ticket sales* which pushed it closer to *60%.* Marciano had *no choice* but to *comply* or *no contract.*
Enormous criminal empires had been built on the supply of illegal liquor during the Prohibition era. *Italian* Al Capone’s the most infamous among them. When prohibition came to an end in 1933, after more than a decade of lucrative and bloody endeavour for the Mob, *they needed* something *new.* Access to the machinery of *boxing,* a wilfully unfettered anarchy proved remarkably easy to acquire. *Boxing was now fertile ground for the Mafia.*
*They controlled it all,* from the *trainers* and *managers* to the reporting *journalists,* with a combination of *intimidation* and financial backing ensuring *everybody* the mob *wanted* was under *their control.*
*THE DAY AFTER RETIREMENT HE IMMEDIATELY ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS*
"186 the best weight i ever fought at , small for a heavyweight," and "sometimes having to take 2 or 3 punches to get one in." -- Rocky Marciano @ The Marciano Tapes #1
*When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs. Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two Super Heavyweight warriors stood toe to toe exhibiting exceptional heart and endurance. Both boxers threw bombs and neither took a backward step.*
("The Tuamanator" would have obliterated light heavyweights Charles-n-Moore and "The President" woulda walked through little Marciano and Walcott as if they were invisible.)
Marciano was good during his little post war era three generations ago but he would not be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to:
Undefeated 263lb Makhmudov
Undefeated 248lb Sanchez
Undefeated 247lb Hrgovic
Undefeated 245lb Anderson
Undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few.
And then there's so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to:
Lewis
Bowe
Vitali
Ruddock
Witherspoon
Grant
Bruno
Holmes
Ali
Foreman
Liston
Tyson
Usyk
Wladimir
Ruiz
Parker
Ortiz
Dokes
Lyle
Thomas
Weaver
Briggs
Morrison
Cooney
Wilder
*I could "easily" list another Twenty-Five!!!*
Too many Rocky fans *don't do a deep drive into examining his career. That magical 49-0 is the shiny coin so many can not see beyond.* LaStarza was one of Marciano's best opponents, he was 37-0. How many of y'all *actually studied the 37 guys LaStarza fought?* Well *here they are:* We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.*
#37) Cesar Brion - 49 wins 11 losses with 36% KOs *C-LEVEL* looks okay until ya *see how many of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians*
Walter Hafer - 22 wins 26 losses with 26% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jackie Lyons - 32 wins 24 losses with 23% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Carollo - 36 wins 17 losses with 16% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Weinberg - 44 wins 22 losses with 34% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Gene Gosney - 14 wins 5 losses with 42% KOs *C-minus-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Mike Jacobs - 14 wins 16 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Mel McKinney - 8 wins 10 losses with 5% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Teddy Georges - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Oscar Goode - 43 wins 23 losses with 20% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tony Gangemi - 21 wins 18 losses with 26% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Benny Rusk - 20 wins 17 losses with 27% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred McManus - 18 wins 19 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Holloway - 2 wins 11 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Claude McClintock - 1 win 9 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Steve King - 21 wins 11 losses with 17% KOs *D to F-LEVEL*
Jimmy White - 9 wins 17 losses with 11% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Frankie Reed - 2 wins 14 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Mike Belluscio - 15 wins 10 losses with 37% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Luther McMillan - 13 wins 19 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Ramsey - 8 wins 12 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lorne McCarthy - 2 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Zeke Brown - 0 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jim Johnson - 3 wins 22 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Dodd - 8 wins 12 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Al Zappala - 20 wins 27 losses with 9% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Zack Johnson - 3 wins 7 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Dave Glanton - 1 win 13 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
*Lewis Watson, the boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition, saying: “Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition."*
*"Promoters lookin for a way to get their prizefighters a big payoff will first invest thousands of dollars in padding his numbers against truly horrendous opponents. A guy who’s undefeated at 37-0, for example, might not be any better than a more seasoned boxer with a lousy record."* -- The Ring Magazine
*THE WORST 37-0 EVER.* Roland was well protected and very carefully managed. There are so many names from his era conspicuously missing from his record. LaStarza's only claim to fame was having lost a close decision to Marciano. *End of story.*
"His reputation was built on the first Rocky fight. Although he had a long winning streak at the beginning of his career, there are no tough names on his record. After the first Marciano fight he could have forced the issue by meeting top fighters. He refused fights with Charles, Moore, Clarence Henry, Bob Baker etc. Lost and avenged to overstuffed light heavy Dan Bucceroni and to light heavy Rocky Jones and looked terrible against Jones in the rematch. The Jones win and a victory over the faded Rex Layne gave him the credentials to meet Rocky for the title. A fight I am told Rocky was more intent on giving Roland a beating for all of the talk that he "was afraid" to meet LaStarza again. Look at LaStarza's record there are no names on it except for Marciano. I have the complete film of the Jones rematch and believe me LaStarza looked terrible. LaStarza NEVER fought a dangerous opponent except Marciano and thats a fact if you know any of the fighters from his era. I am not saying that LaStarza was a coward but he (or, excuse me, his management) refused matches with Henry, Charles, Baker, and Archie Moore. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much, saying he wouldn't take those matches because he "deserved" a rematch with Marciano and thought he was offered the other matches by the IBC only because they were trying to knock him out of "his rightful shot at Marciano." Boo Hoo Hoo. Real, confident fighters go out and prove they deserve their shot by beating dangerous fighters to force a showdown with a champion." -- *Chuck Hasson Boxing Historian and Philly Boxing Founder*
LaStarza was coming off a loss and a win against 14-9-2 Rocky Jones. Layne had lost to the unrated 12-2 Willie James and a light heavyweight contender. The winner of this garbage gets a world title shot against a guy who already beat BOTH of them. *Heavyweight contenders today aren't rated at the top after they lose to unranked journeymen and light heavyweights.*
*LaStarza vs. Layne (uploader William Walker)* reminds me of watching two midwest *club fighters* fightin a *4* rounder on an old ESPN card from Muncie, In. *Two guys who were not well schooled, standing in front of each other acting like they were insulted if the other guy missed them with a punch. A lot of right hand leads, a lot of jabs with the rear foot leaving the canvas, little/no counter punching, just two guys willing to get hit but showing little boxing skill.* Look how bad Rex Layne swings and misses. *What an oaf.*
Folks tryin to say Marciano would weigh 220 lbs today is laughable. All the PEDs in the world ain't gonna help his extraordinarily short dwarfism arms grow longer.
@@Samantha_Lavery_Medici Another ridiculous post from you. Look at Michael Spinks. He was the LH champ at 175 lbs. When he fought Mike Tyson he was 212 1/2. That is 37 1/2 lbs. Did all that weight he put on go in his arms?
MARCIANO=PERFECTION/INVINCIBILITY
Granted Marciano and Charles were tuff during their time but that was 70yrs ago when heavyweights were not much bigger than light heavyweights. Little Charles weighed 181 and little Rocky weighed 184 when they won their Heavyweight titles, and anyone who thinks they could compete against today's 250-lb Super Heavyweights is Moronic
Archie Moore went on a 21 fight streak before he faced Rocky Marciano. Moore's numbers may not lie, but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion. So let's examine those *SEVENTEEN* opponents (not in order).
Bobo Olson 170 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Clinton Bacon 170 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Harold Johnson 170 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Harold Johnson *TWICE* *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Joey Maxim 174 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Joey Maxim *TWICE* *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Joey Maxim *THRICE* *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Dogomar Martinez 175 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Sonny Andrews 177 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Rinaldo Ansaloni 178 lb *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Jimmy Slade 180 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Bob Dunlap 180 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Clarence Henry 184 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Toxie Hall 188 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Bert Whitehurst 186 lbs *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?*
Frank Buford 199 lbs had a career 22 wins 32 losses *F-LEVEL* with 2% KOs.
Al Spaulding 210 lbs had a career 25 wins 27 losses *F-LEVEL* with an abysmal 24% KOs.
Leonard Dugan 209 lbs had a career 6 wins 2 losses *D-LEVEL* with an abysmal 25% KOs.
Bob Baker 209 lbs had a career 51 wins 16 losses *D-LEVEL* with an abysmal 29% KOs.
Nino Valdes 209 lbs had a career 48 wins 18 losses *C-minus LEVEL*
with a low-power 51% KOs.
Nino Valdes *TWICE*
How can anyone possibly compare Marciano to Moore??? It never was an even playing field.. How many fights did Moore have before he faced Marciano??? *"ONE HUNDRED SEVENTY EIGHT"* ..give little Rocky 178 fights and put him the same age as Moore what happens??? Light heavyweight Moore beats light heavyweight Marciano 10 out of 10 times!!!!
Marciano's #1 critique has *ALWAYS* been that Louis, Walcott, Charles and Moore were not prime. Moore was factually born in 1913 and Marciano in 1923. Rocky fans only defence is, "but but Moore was on a 21 fight win streak before he fought Marciano." Well analyze those 17 opponents. The 5 Heavyweights were C-minus to F-LEVEL opposition, and his best opponents were genuine light heavyweights. Correct??? Charles, Moore, Matthews, Cockell, Johnson, Bivins, etc. were all genuine light heavyweights. Correct??? A prime 220lb Mike Tyson or a prime 230lb David Tua or a prime 225lb Riddick Bowe takes out all these light heavyweights in only 1 or 2 rounds.
*MARCIANO NEVER FACED AN ELITE FIGHTER IN HIS PRIME. NAME ONE, JUST ONE PRIME ELITE FIGHTER MARCIANO BEAT???* FAILING TO NAME EVEN ONE PROVES MY COMMENT RINGS TRUE... *SHOW ME ANY RESPECTED BOXING PUBLICATION OR ANALYST THAT CLAIMS WALCOTT, CHARLES AND MOORE WERE IN THEIR PRIME WHEN THEY FOUGHT MARCIANO???* TIC-TOC TIC-TOC
I loved Rocky Marciano's response when someone asked him what he was thinking when Walcott knocked him down in their first fight: "Gee, this fellow hits hard. I might have to get up a couple of times before I knock him out."
@@Jabbing_Jack NO EXCUSES! EVERYBODY FOUGHT OLD BUMS< EVERYONE! THAT"S IT< EAT IT! 49-0, 43 knockouts!! They hate him because he's a paisano, goomba, Italiano, WHITE!!!! they can't stand it and no one will admit that!!!!! Ask Muhammad Ali if he would have beaten Rocky!!!!!!! Go to the video!!!
Rocky was always so nice and humble. He never trash talked his opponents and always praised their fighting abilities before he broke them , he let his fist do the talking.
Most if not all were like that. The thing is most of them couldn’t draw flies to the fight game. Then along came clay/Ali You have to understand Liston , Patterson were at the time the premiere heavyweights so why is it that the young and not yet fully established clay/Ali was drawing twenty plus thousand buts to the arenas because he was not just a fighter he was also an entertainer. This ment extra money for all his opponents. You have to admit those fighters needed money. So sir stop insinuating and admit that every once in a while someone special comes along and every one benifits. Ps nuff said. Sir
@@Maria.Isabella.Sanchez that my friend is the truth. Without the sport of boxing Muhammad would not have a forum to ply his trade, that is exactly why he never cheated the sport. No sir like Marciano said he worked hard for what he accumplished
@@Jabbing_Jack Look at you trying to change the definition of the word prime so it fits your Freak Boy agenda Here is the actual definition of the word prime taken directly from the Cambridge dictionary
Prime - the period in your life when you are most active or successful.
Marciano fans describe him as being *so fierce* that he practically *killed all 49* of his opponents in the ring. Y'all have these vids *saturated with so much exaggerated nonsense* that it's laughable.
*Little Marciano was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , because when he walked the earth shook.*
If little Rocky was *so-powerful* why didn't he *ever break any bones???* He never broke *one rib,* *one nose,* *one eye-socket,* *one jaw* or *detached one retina.* Exactly *who's bones did he break???* Waiting,, Tic Toc Tic Toc... *""NOBODY""!!!! ""ZERO""!!!!*
Roland LaStarza with all his supposed *"Broken Bones"* and *"Ruptured Blood Vessels"* only had to have *'minor'* surgery. Y'all act as if *both his arms were decapitated.* LaStarza simply had *miniscule bone-chips* removed from his elbow just like David Tua did after his fight with Ibeabuchi. *It is a common boxing injury because everyone blocks punches using their forearms and elbows.* Besides LaStarza said, *"I already had elbow problems before i even fought Marciano."* I have the *article.* When Roland left boxing he went on to a very lucrative TV acting career.
Here's the newspaper article about Layne's tooth: *"Rex Layne lost a left upper tooth..the tooth broke at the gums when Marciano caught the Utahn in the mouth with a full right hand. Layne was taken immediately after the fight to a New York dentist to have the teeth X-rayed and also for treatment on a broken tooth." Layne's handlers said, "the tooth went out with the gumshield."*
Rex only sustained *"ONE"* broken tooth! He fought Charles exactly 3 months later so what's the big deal??? *Folks break their teeth all the time skateboarding or slippin-n-fallin on the ice.*
"He punched out almost every tooth in Rex Lyne's mouth and sent his gum guard into the crowd. It take massive power to do that. If Layne was 6'6 240+ it wouldn't of made any difference." -- *written by a-typical Marciano Fanboy 12 years ago.*
"In his heyday, he may have won, probably would have." - Ali
The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. *He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."* Rocky's manager Al Weill said the same thing in Marciano's biography 'Unbeaten', *"Vingo hit his head on the flooring, then he went unconscious."*
So after all this time it was the plywood flooring that partially paralyzed Vingo, not Marciano's punch. It's no wonder *Vingo said, "I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin*
Nobody knows how that particular ring in 1949 was actually constructed at that particular venue. Regardless of the flooring, Vingo *tooth-pick* Bingo was 6' 4" 189 lbs with an abysmal 38% KO's. A closer look at his eighteen opponents:
#1) Vingo 188¼ vs Barney Metten 192¾ lbs CAREER *6 wins 3 losses* with 44% KO's *F-LEVEL*
#2) Vingo 187 lbs vs Fred Ramsey 186 lbs CAREER *8 wins 12 losses* with 28% KO's *F-LEVEL*
#3) Vingo 190 lbs vs Earl Turner 198 lbs CAREER *2 wins 21 losses* with *0%* KO's *F-LEVEL* Turner's *only purpose* was *Paddin Records.*
#4) Vingo 190 lbs vs George Washington 187 lbs CAREER *12 wins 33 losses* with 17% KO's *F-LEVEL* Another *Paid Diver.*
#5) Vingo 194½ lbs vs Joe Lindsay 182½ lbs CAREER *28 wins 7 losses* with 29% KO's *C-LEVEL* Vingo *"LOSES"*
#6) Vingo 194 lbs vs Freddie McManus 179½ lbs CAREER *18 wins 19 losses* with *7%* KO's *F-LEVEL*
#7) Vingo 197 lbs vs Tommy DiGiorgio 183½ lbs CAREER *9 wins 15 losses* with *4%* KO's *F-LEVEL*
#8) Vingo 192 lbs vs Jimmy Walls 189½ lbs CAREER *20 wins 41 losses* with *8%* KO's *F-LEVEL* *"Another Diver"*
#9) Vingo 189½ lbs vs Tommy DiGiorgio 183½ lbs CAREER *9 wins 15 losses* with *4%* KO's *F-LEVEL* *"SECOND" time* Vingo fights this undercard boxer. *Why???*
#10) Vingo 188 lbs vs Johnny Williams 183 lbs CAREER *2 wins 13 losses* with *6%* KO's *F-LEVEL* *This isn't even boxing anymore. It's charity for the homeless.*
#11) Vingo 188 lbs vs Don Mogard 191¼ lbs CAREER *20 wins 16 losses* with *15%* KO's *F-LEVEL*
#12) Vingo 195 lbs vs Freddie McManus 178 lbs CAREER *18 wins 19 losses* with *7%* KO's *F-LEVEL* *"SECOND" time* Vingo fights this opponent. *Why???*
#13) Vingo 195 lbs vs Ernie Conyer 191½ lbs CAREER *5 wins 9 losses* with 21% KO's *F-LEVEL*
#14) Vingo 185 lbs vs Ernie Conyer 187½ lbs CAREER *5 wins 9 losses* with 21% KO's *F-LEVEL* *"SECOND" time* Vingo fights this opponent. *Why???*
#15) Vingo 188½ lbs vs Joe Modzele 183 lbs CAREER *18 wins 8 losses* with 26% KO's *D to F-LEVEL* *Light* heavyweights *moonlighting as Heavyweights were dime a dozen back then.*
#16) Vingo 192½ lbs vs George Washington 189 lbs CAREER *12 wins 33 losses* *F-LEVEL* *"SECOND" time* Vingo fights this *Diver.* Vingo fought *"FOUR"* opponents *"TWICE"* within *16* bouts. *Why?* Even the *majority* of his opponents have *losing* records. *Why???* This is all very reminiscent of Roland LaStarza's first 37 opponents. *This isn't even funny anymore.* It's downright shameful.
#17) Vingo 193 lbs vs Al Robinson 193 lbs CAREER *0 wins 5 losses* with *0%* KO's *F-LEVEL* Vingo actually fights a *debuting 0-0-0 amateur just before* he faces little Rocky. *Why???*
#18) Vingo 189 lbs vs Rocky Marciano 180¼ lbs CAREER *49 wins 0 losses* with 87.76% KO's *B-LEVEL* Vingo was completely outclassed and never had a chance from the get-go. I saw their Getty Museum pics and Marciano didn't have a single mark on his face, and his eyes were wide open and clear. *What they did to Vingo was a Travesty.*
*THE WORST PREDETERMINED 16-2 BOXING RESUME OF ALL TIME*
All this time i was mislead into believing that Vingo was this twenty year old superstar being prepped to become the next Heavyweight champ. Instead he was prepped for *SLAUGHTER JUST TO PLEASE A CROWD --Carmine Vingo*
Journeyman Jersey Joe Walcott's 20 losses:
*1.* ln 1930 Walcott lost to 159-lb Palmer. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *SEVEN* years old.
*2.* In 1930 Walcott lost to 158-lb Carl Mays. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *EIGHT* years old.
*3.* In 1933 Walcott lost to 177-lb Henry Taylor. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TEN* years old.
*4.* In 1936 Walcott was *KOd* by 191-lb Al Ettore. Marciano was *THIRTEEN* years old.
*5.* In 1936 Walcott lost to 179-lb Billy Ketchell. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *THIRTEEN* years old.
*6.* In 1937 Walcott was *KOd* by 178-lb Tiger Jack Fox. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *FOURTEEN* years old.
*7.* In 1937 Walcott lost to 174-lb George Brothers. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *FOURTEEN* years old.
*8.* In 1938 Walcott lost to 184-lb Tiger Jack Fox AGAIN. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *FIFTEEN* years old.
*9.* In 1938 Walcott lost to 197-lb Roy Lazer. Marciano was *FIFTEEN* years old.
*10.* In 1940 Walcott was *KOd* and sent into *RETIREMENT* for *3-years* by 256-lb Abe Simon. A Super Heavyweight in every sense, he benefitted from a remarkable sixty-two pound weight advantage. Behind in points in the first five rounds, Simon unleashed a tremendous right @ 2:32 into the sixth causing the knockout. Walcott barely moved as he was counted out." -- Wiki* ..Simon was sent into *permanent RETIREMENT* by Joe Louis in 1942. Marciano was *SEVENTEEN* years old.
*11.* In 1945 Walcott lost to 204-lb Johnny Allen who had more losses than wins. Marciano was *TWENTY TWO* years old.
*12.* In 1946 Walcott lost to 179-lb Joey Maxim. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TWENTY THREE* years old.
*13.* In 1946 Walcott lost to 191-lb Elmer Ray. Marciano was *TWENTY THREE* years old.
*14.* In 1947 Walcott lost to 212-pound Joe Louis. *JOE LOUIS SAID HE BEAT WALCOTT IN THIS BOUT.. LOUIS ALSO SAID WALCOTT WAS OLDER THAN HE WAS (@ Louis vs. Walcott The Way it Was Part 1 and 2).* Marciano was *TWENTY FOUR* years old.
*15.* In 1948 Walcott was *KOd* by 213-lb Joe Louis. Louis barely got through the Journeyman so he announced his retirement March 1, 1949. Louis's once speedy reflexes were gone and it showed. Marciano was *TWENTY FIVE* years old.
*16.* In 1949 Walcott lost to 181-lb Ezzard Charles. This fight was for the *"vacant"* Heavyweight title. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TWENTY SIX* years old.
*17.* In 1950 Walcott lost to 192-lb Rex Layne. Marciano was *TWENTY SEVEN* years old.
*18.* In 1951 Walcott lost to 185-lb Ezzard Charles AGAIN. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TWENTY EIGHT* years old.
*19.* In 1952 Walcott was *KOd* by 184-lb Rocky Marciano. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *TWENTY NINE* years old.
*IT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION THAT WALCOTT WAS IN HIS PRIME vs. MARCIANO BECAUSE IT'S SCIENTIFICALLY AND MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!!! AND JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY HE WAS PRIME DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!!! PUT WALCOTT AT (( 29 )) AND MARCIANO AT (( 38 )) - WHAT HAPPENS???*
*20.* In 1953 Walcott was *KOd* by 184-lb Rocky Marciano. *WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS.* Marciano was *THIRTY* years old and Walcott was very close to *FORTY!!!*
*It was advantageous that Marciano started late because he was fresh while the others were already smashed around lik' bowling pins for (15) years. Also little Rocky did have an extensive amateur career. His uncle hung a heavy bag in the back yard when he was only 10 years old, and he had years of daily sparing while he was in the military.*
49 wins, 43 knockouts, 0 defeats. Rocky Marciano, a hero to all those who are told they can't.
Nobody talks about the ass whooping I gave him..👊🏾🥊💯
@@David_Frost_Stout_Krout Look at you spamming this thread with numerous posts from your stout krout and studentofsweetscience accounts. It is one of your go to moves when you get clowned
Move #1 steal the name of the guy who clowned you
Move #2 Spam the thread with numerous posts that have little to do with the topic at hand
@@David_Frost_Stout_Krout I have no need to prove anything. You have clearly established your credentials
@@bobbyd1492 And for the umpteenth time why do you NEVER list these polls? Why is that? I have asked you numerous times Fake Bobby D to list them and you never do
Marciano said, "I started quite late as a heavyweight. I fought 16 times in my very first professional year. The following year i fought 14 times. Then when i won the title my following year my fights slacked off."
Marciano's total fights per year:
1947 -- 1
1948 -- 11
1949 -- 13
1950 -- 6
1951 -- 7
1952 -- 5
Championship years:
1953 -- 2
1954 -- 2
1955 -- 2
Rocky also said, "Floyd Patterson one year only fought 1 or 2 times." Well Mr. little Rocky you did the same for 3 years!!! And, at least Patterson had 64 total fights, not a measly 49.
Towards the end he says, "In my 23rd fight i was on television and made a big hit, in beating Joe Louis." Rocky beat Joe his 38th fight, not 23rd.
Marciano also said, "Clay was just fighting anybody" (meaning bums)... Have you ever looked in the mirror Rocky? *Cuz yer entire career consisted of F-LEVEL BUMS*
BoxRec has officially listed these Rocky Marciano opponents as *'middleweights'* and *'light'* heavyweights:
Eddie Ross - division *"Middleweight"*
Harry Bilazarian - division *"Middleweight"*
Archie Moore - division *"Light heavy"*
Harry Matthews - division *"Light heavy"*
Harry Haft - division *"Light heavy"*
Ted Lowry - division *"Light heavy"*
Willis Applegate - division *"Light heavy"*
Bob Jefferson - division *"Light heavy"*
Ezzard Charles - division *"Light heavy"*
Apparently after 23 years BoxRec recently *changed Ezzard Charles's division classification to "heavy" several days ago.* It don't matter if they change it to the *"Super-Heavy" division* because he still only weighed *'181-lbs'* when he won his title and there is nothing BoxRec or anyone can do or say to change that Fact.
Did the Klitschko brothers and Lennox Lewis have the luxury of fightin middleweights and light heavyweights? Of course not. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?*
Marciano's small era was a huge contributing factor towards the *"cruiserweight"* division being created. *There comes a point the size disparity becomes a bridge too far even for outstanding smaller boxers.*
Little Rocky was only 31 when he *"QUIT"* during his prime. He only fought a measly 7 years while everyone else fought 20 years. Many Heavyweights could have retired undefeated if they had *"QUIT"* after only 7 years.
What Marciano did to his family is *"unforgivable"* During his retirement speech and his appearance on the Ed Sullivan show he said, "I want to spend more time with my family." *That's not True. It was all a lie. He immediately abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands then left them penniless--@ 1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI*
So Fury, Lewis, Vitali and Foreman all would have lost if they fought the hyped-up tomato-cans little Rocky fought? Give me a break. Someone like Roland LaStarza would be obliterated in today's Super Heavyweight world.
Immediately after Bert said that, Bill Gallo chimes in and says, *"Ray Arcel was a good friend of mine and he told me he loved Ezzard Charles like a son."* -- which brings us to whatever happened to the famous Ray Arcel ???
*"After some disputes with president Jim Norris of The International Boxing Club of New York (IBC) in the 1950s, Ray Arcel (trainer for Charles) retired from training after being injured with a lead pipe during an attack in Boston. The case that was never solved by police."* --Wiki
*"In the early fifties, Arcel ran afoul of organized crime after arranging fights for the ABC television network. The matches competed with other network television fights run by the IBC, known to have underworld ties. In September 1953, in front of a Boston hotel, Arcel was struck on the head with a lead pipe. Many believed that the assault was related to his work in television. Arcel recovered but dropped out of boxing soon after the incident. Not until the early 1970s did Arcel return. He began an eight-year association with Roberto Duran."* --International Boxing Hall Of Fame
*And Sports journalist Bert Sugar was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for his vast amount of boxing knowledge. Mr. Sugar was widely regarded as the “boxing bible." Sugar wrote more than 80 books and was ranked as "The Greatest Boxing Writer of the 20th Century" by the International Veterans Boxing Association. Among his boxing books are Sting like a Bee, Great Fights, Bert Sugar on Boxing, 100 Years of Boxing, The 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time, The Thrill of Victory, The Ageless Warrior and Boxing's Greatest Fighters.*
I'm a huge Marciano fan but he was so lucky a young prime Sonny Liston wasn't around during the early 50s. Rocky will always be one of my favorite fighters but I'm a realist that understands his limitations. To think little dwarfism-arms could beat 'The Big Bear' is utterly ridiculous and complete nonsense.
If racial bigotry was not the order of the day. If white privilege was not the priority, if Rocky Marciano, did not have the complexion for the connection, especially given the fact he never fought ONE SINGLE Black fighter in his Prime, Rocky Marciano WOULD NOT have been heavyweight champion.
And consider this: Deontay Wilder, with a 93% KO Record, is doing WAAAAY BETTER as a heavyweight, than Marciano in his day could ever hope to do. AND YET, the racist, most white people call him “a bum.” Imagine that!
Rocky Marciano was a mediocre fight knocking out cherry picked mediocre bums to pad his record and satisfy the wishes of white supremacy.
Since his retirement 62 years ago, NOT ONE SINGLE white American has won the heavy title...NONE!!! Gee, I wonder why????!
"In the ring, i never really knew fear." - Rocky Marciano
@@Jabbing_Jack "Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis
"The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield
"Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." -Joe Frazier
"Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles
"Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott
"Hit you so so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa. - Muhammed Ali
"Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." -Roland LaStarza
"One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." -George Foreman
We just witnessed it. That's all the proof anyone needs that Mighty Rocky was indeed, a Superior Power hitter
@@bobbyd1776 Don Turner also trained the Klitschko brothers and said that Rocky Marciano would have beat both Klitschko's at the same time.
@@Jabbing_Jack "Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis
"The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield
"Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." -Joe Frazier
"Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles
"Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott
"Like fighting an airplane propeller." - Archie Moore
"Hit you so so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa. - Muhammed Ali
"Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." -Roland LaStarza
"One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." -George Foreman
We just witnessed it. That's all the proof anyone needs to see that you don't know what you are talking about
*ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."*
*People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.*
*In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."*
*Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Absolutelyyyy Rocky had heart. Just as Joe Frazier was all heart. But look what Big George did to Frazier's heart, bounced it up and down off the canvas like a basket🏀ball. Little Hearts can only take you so far in the land of Bigger Hearts.
You need help.
Muhammad Ali is the only boxer to be named The Ring magazine Fighter of the Year six times, and was involved in more Ring "Fight of the Year" bouts than any other fighter. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in its first year and held wins over seven other Hall of Fame inductees.
Ali appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated on 38 different occasions, second only to Michael Jordan's 46. He also appeared on the cover of Time Magazine 5 times, the most of any athlete.
Ali was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and was named Athlete of the Century by USA Today. He was presented with the Presidential Citizens Medal by Clinton and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Bush.
In 2015, Sports Illustrated renamed its Sportsman Legacy Award to the Sports Illustrated's Muhammad Ali Legacy Award. In June 2016, an amendment to the US draft laws were named after Ali, a proposal to eliminate the Selective Service System.
The Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act was passed in 2000, to protect the rights and welfare of boxers in the United States.
As a world champion boxer and pop culture icon, Muhammad Ali was the subject of numerous creative works including books, films, music, video games, TV shows, and other.
Muhammad Ali was often dubbed the world's "most famous" person in the media. Several of his fights were watched by an estimated 2 billion viewers between 1974 and 1980, and his lighting of the torch at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics was watched by an estimated 3.5 billion viewers.
He also wrote several bestselling books about his career, including The Greatest: My Own Story and The Soul of a Butterfly.
When We Were Kings, a 1996 documentary about the Rumble in the Jungle, won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. The 2001 biopic Ali garnered a Best Actor Oscar nomination for Will Smith for his portrayal of Ali.
In 2002, Ali was honored with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame for his contributions to the entertainment industry. His star is the only one to be mounted on a vertical surface, out of deference to his request that the name Muhammad-not be walked upon.
Documentary filmmaker Ken Burns created the four-part documentary film Muhammad Ali, spanning over eight hours on Ali's life. Burns worked on the film from early 2016 and it was released in September 2021 on PBS. Dave Zirin, who watched an 8-hour rough cut of this documentary, called it "utterly outstanding" and said "the footage they found will blow minds."
Walcott was 38 and 39 years old when he fought Marciano. Which makes perfect sense when ya study Walcott's facial features and the way his legs started wearing out around the 10th round. That's exactly why Walcott got stuck against the ropes during the unlucky 13th. As Rocky slowly shuffled towards Walcott why didn't he move to his left or right like he was previously doing? Because his Senior citizen legs were washed, that's why. Hey, it happens to us all. Nobody escapes father time!
Age 40 in boxing years is Senior citizen, especially if a pro boxer has been training and fightin for 20+ years like Louis, Walcott, and Moore did before they faced little Rocky.
Only reason Big George Foreman was able to box from 38 to 48 for his second boxing career is because he suffered very little to no head or body trauma and was able to rest 10 years before his comeback.
One would think since little white Marciano was only 185 that he would at least have faster hands than the true Heavyweights right? But Maricano had the slowest hands I've ever seen on a white boy.
Even Walcott was 38/39 years old when he fought Marciano. Which makes perfect sense when ya study Walcott's facial features and the way his legs started wearing out around the 10th round. That's exactly why Walcott got stuck against the ropes during the unlucky 13th. As Rocky slowly shuffled towards Walcott why didn't he move to his left or right like he was previously doing? Because his Senior citizen legs were washed, that's why. Hey, it happens to us all. Nobody escapes father time!
A fighter is in his prime when he has the maturity and experience to go along with undiminished reflexes. Once his reflexes start to slide he's past-prime, simple as that. When his reflexes are gone he's a shot fighter. I can't recall seeing a fighter older than his early 30s that still had his reflexes fully intact.
It's clear as day that Moore's reflexes were shot against both Marciano & Patterson. Y'all can clearly see Joe Louis telegraph his punches because his reflexes were non-existent. Walcott's legs and/or endurance ran out after round-10 and Charles was natural light-heavyweight that simply did not have enough power to deal with Marciano.
Moore was born in 1913. Marciano was born in 1923. Light heavyweight Moore moved up in weight to fight Marciano at the age of 41. The fallacy that Moore, Walcott and Louis were all prime at 37, 38/39 and 41yrs of age is a misleading unsound argument and scientifically impossible.
You mean Archie was 10 years older😂
Yeah but Archie Moore started boxing at 15 and marciano started when he was 24
@@brandonmattingly9392 Then Marciano had an advantage. Less wear and tear.
@dirtyjew1974. yeah but he had significantly less experience and it's way harder to start late than early
Look, it's time you ki... and ni..... stopped bitching, Rocky beat their bla.. as... and some Je.. and Guin... made made money.
It's interesting how people who experienced watching him in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he quit (Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis, Vitali, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, Wladimir, Ibeabuchi, Frazier, etc). All the professionals, managers, trainers, boxing writers and historians in the 50s, 60s and 70s only rated Rocky #7, #8, #9 and #10 Heavyweight, all-time. Funny how his status rises as fewer people remain who actually covered him when he fought. There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record.
Mayweather was named "Fighter of the Decade" for the 2010s by the Boxing Writers Association of America (BWAA), a two-time winner of The Ring magazine's Fighter of the Year award (1998 and 2007), a three-time winner of the BWAA Fighter of the Year award (2007, 2013, and 2015), and a six-time winner of the Best Fighter ESPY Award (2007-2010, 2012-2014). In 2016, ESPN ranked him the greatest boxer, pound for pound, of the last 25 years. As of May 2021, BoxRec ranks him the greatest boxer of all time, pound for pound. Many sporting news and boxing websites, including The Ring, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, BoxRec, Fox Sports, and Yahoo! Sports, ranked Mayweather as the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world twice in a span of ten years.
Since the existence of CompuBox, Mayweather is the most accurate puncher among professional boxers, having the highest plus-minus ratio in recorded boxing history. He has a record of 26 consecutive wins in world title fights (10 by KO), 23 wins (9 KOs) in lineal title fights, 24 wins (7 KOs) against former or current world titlists, 12 wins (3 KOs) against former or current lineal champions, and 5 wins (1 KO) against International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees. He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in the class of 2021.
Mayweather is one of the most lucrative pay-per-view attractions of all time, in any sport. He topped the Forbes and Sports Illustrated lists of the 50 highest-paid athletes of 2012 and 2013, and the Forbes list again in both 2014 and 2015, as the highest-paid athlete in the world. In 2006, he founded his own boxing promotional firm, Mayweather Promotions, after leaving Bob Arum's Top Rank. He has generated approximately 24 million PPV buys and $1.67 billion in revenue throughout his career, surpassing the likes of former top PPV attractions including Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis and Oscar De La Hoya. In 2018, he was the highest-paid athlete in the world, with total earnings, including endorsements, of $285 million, according to Forbes. In November, 2021, Sportico released an all-time athlete earnings list, in which Mayweather ranked no. 6 of all time, totaling an inflation-adjusted $1.2 billion in his career.
You can say all you want about Mayweather, Jr. and his victories without loss, titles, opponents beaten, and record money earnings. What you can't deny is that he's a puerile, classless, narcissistic asshole who never met a mirror whose reflection he didn't adore, and a man who -- despite all the accolades he's received for prizefighting -- has never done anything of note for the human race. No matter what he's able to buy with money, he'll never be able to purchase human decency or humility.
In boxing, having an unbeaten record is considered a very significant achievement. Boxers with unbeaten records are highly regarded and seen as the best in the sport. Rocky Marciano's *"0"* meant everything. Without it he wouldn't be ranked top-20. Only *"ONE"* loss would have changed little Rocky's entire boxing legacy. Combined Wilder and Joshua only have 5 losses which is why they're being thrown under the bus. Wins and losses define a boxer. If Fury or Usyk attains a single loss their chances for top-10 will immediately vanish.
Since so much emphasis is put on the perfect record and/or losses can someone please explain *why* Rocky's opponents CHARLES, WALCOTT, MOORE, SAVOLD, LOWRY, LAYNE, COCKELL, WILSON, SHKOR, WALLS, HENRI, SIMMONS, EATMAN, MUSCATO AND BESHORE *LOST ((411)) TIMES* AND THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE???
Charles Lost (25) times
Walcott Lost (20) times
Moore Lost (23) times
Savold Lost (45) times
Lowry Lost (68) times
Layne Lost (17) times
Cockell Lost (14) times
Wilson Lost (27) times
Shkor Lost (19) times
Walls Lost (41) times
Henri Lost (29) times
Simmons (22) times
Eatman (21) times
Muscato (23) times
Beshore (17) times
*(and many more with double digit losses,, the list is too long)*
WHY DIDN'T ALL MARCIANO OPPONENTS HAVE *""ZERO""* LOSSES IF THEY WERE SO GREAT???
if *"0"* is the only thing that matters then little Marciano's opponents were horrendous.. correct???
*It is worth noting that an unbeaten record does not mean that a boxer is the best, as there are many factors that can impact a fighter's record, such as the level of competition they have faced. There is no way to argue objectively that Marciano is the greatest. And that is due to not only his lackluster competition, but his wars against them.*
*Can you imagine what Foreman in his prime would have done to little Charles and little Moore??? Is there anyone that Marciano beat that Ibeabuchi wouldn’t have beaten in a more convincing fashion??? If Foreman or Ibeabuchi fought Marciano the bookmakers would make Foreman and Ibeabuchi at least a -350 favorite.*
There are *few* Heavyweight champions in the history of boxing that are *better known* for *their losses* than *their wins.* Jersey Joe Walcott's *high profile losses* is what *elevated his status* and built up his credentials, *not his wins.*
*During his peak championship years, Walcott scored 7 wins with 5 KO's. Only one of those KO's came against a ranked fighter, that being Ezzard Charles. During this time Walcott also lost 7 times and suffered 10 count KO's 3 times and a 9 count once. In total fights during this time Walcott's record was 7-7. In title fights he went 2-6 with 1 KO win and 3 KO losses. He fought 3 different men in his 8 title fights, was defeated by each of them twice, KO'd by two of them and only defeated one of them.*
In his overall career Walcott had a *49-20-1* record and was *KO'd 6 times* (BoxRec). Based on these *less than impressive stats* it is difficult to consider him anymore than a *good Journeyman.*
Walcott scored 32 KO's in 70 fights. The *'only two'* 'ranked' fighters Walcott ever KO'd was an off the floor 10th round win over Curtis Sheppard and the *lightning in the bottle* KO of Ezzard Charles.
Walcott is a prime example of boxing historians rating a fighter *higher than he deserves* based on *impressive losses.* Walcott was *winless* in all *4* of his fights vs. Louis/Marciano and was KO'd *3* times.
*The fact that Walcott was granted 6 title attempts in a 6 year span speaks volumes about how weak the Heavyweight division must have been at this time. ""Five"" of these title opportunities came immediately after a Walcott loss.*
Had Walcott been fighting in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's, there is *no-way* he would have been granted this many opportunities after losing *so-many* title attempts.
Walcott should at best be remembered not as a great Heavyweight champion, but a *good C-LEVEL Journeyman.*
*If a fighter today had 20 losses and was KO'd 6 times he'd be considered F-LEVEL all day every day.* Wilder and Joshua *only have 5 losses between them* yet they are already considered *has-beens.* But it's *perfectly fine* for Walcott Charles Moore to have *(68)* losses, *double standard.*
*Lennox Lewis was only KO'd 2 times and his top-10 ranking has suffered ever since.* But it's *perfectly fine* for Walcott Charles Moore to have been *KO'd (20)* times, *double standard.*
Jonathan Eig wrote of Sonny in Ali: A Life: “Liston does not merely defeat his opponents. He breaks them, shames them, haunts them, leaves them flinching from his punches in their dreams."
People describes little white Marciano as being so ferocious that he basically killed all 49 of his opponents in the ring. Marciano vids are filled with fan boys exaggerated-hyperbole-comments about Rocky's power. But what people fails to tell everyone is that LaStarza (with all his "Broken Bones" and "Ruptured Blood Vessels") simply had minor surgery and was fightin exactly 6 months later. Layne only had 4 broken teeth and was fightin exactly 3 months later - Wiki. These are all normal boxing injuries. Notice how these Marciano lovers never wanna discuss his injuries? Like 2 confirmed nose surgeries, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used like a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around, here, you hit me 5 times and I'll hit you back one time, Duh.
Rex Layne - 50 wins 17 losses with an abysmal 48% KOs *C-LEVEL* Keep in mind that *C-LEVEL* is an average fighter that's still capable of winning a title. Layne scores an extremely low *15 points* for his top 10 ranked appearances throughout his career. *Who did he beat?* His best win *was against Walcott* but *everybody beat Jersey Joe so no biggie.*
Jersey Joe Walcott - 49 wins 20 losses with an abysmal 44% KOs *C-LEVEL* Walcott scores *55 points* for his top 10 positions. Walcott fought for the title *6* times and lost *5* times. *He's more famous for his losses than his wins.* Ali scored *164 points,* Louis scored *138,* Wladimir *136,* Lennox *111,* Holyfield *109,* Holmes *88,* Foreman *86,* Frazier *84,* Tyson *77* and little Marciano only scored *48 points!* Ali is the only Heavyweight with an *A+ LEVEL.* Marciano is *B-LEVEL* for his *weak competition* and *lack of points.* *(I'll ad a comment below thoroughly explaining Walcott's C-LEVEL resume in detail).*
Archie Moore - 186 wins 23 losses with a-low-power 60% KOs *A-LEVEL* at light heavyweight and *C-LEVEL* at Heavyweight. Moore accumulated *156 points* at light heavyweight and only *21* at Heavyweight. Moore misses his *A+ LEVEL* at Light heavyweight because *(23)* losses is *too many.* Ali only had *5,* Louis only had *3,* Lennox only had *2,* Wladimir only had *5,* Liston only had *4,* Vitali only had *2,* Bowe only had *1* etc. *BUT BUT Moore had 220 Fights!!!* Well little Rocky only had *49* so *stop whining.*
Ezzard Charles - 95 wins 25 losses with the lowest ever 42% KOs *A-LEVEL* at light heavyweight and *B-minus LEVEL* at Heavyweight. Charles only compiled *24 points* at light heavyweight and *59 points* at Heavyweight. *Too many losses* Fight *4* fights lose *1,* fight *4* lose *1,* fight *4* lose *1,* fight *4* lose *1,* fight *4* lose *1.* Y'all act as if *(25)* losses are *Meaningless.* If Fury or Usyk has only *(1)* loss they'd be thrown under the bus for eternity just like undisputed undefeated light heavyweight champion Michael Spinks was. --- *ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."*
*People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.*
*In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."*
*Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Archie Moore was 39, and on a 21 fight win streak, the longest of his career, all against younger opposition. He was prime. Joe Walcott was 38 and the Heavyweight Champion. He was also prime. Charles was 33, a year and a half older, and prime. Louis was 37, but had just won 8 straight, with 4 knockouts, and a defeat of a future hall of famer, in Jimmy Bivins. Rocky only had two years under his belt when he faced Joe Louis. Rocky had great wins over great fighters and champions. That is why Louis said, "he was the best."
Joe Walcott wasn't in his prime he had a late career surge like George Foreman in Joe prime it was the great depression he couldn't eat he was to poor
Jersey Joe was better at the end of his career than at the beginning, or the middle, when he found sponsorship. You can track his improvement from the Louis and Charles bouts that preceeded the Marciano fight. The same hook that flattened Charles cold to win him the belt caught the Rock flatfooted, standing up, and put him down for a four count. Walcott nailed him a half dozen more times with that punch to no effect, as Marciano stayed in his crouch, neutralizing Joe's leverage. Jersey Joe was a formidable opponent, 12lbs heavier than Rocky, with serious KO power, a far more experienced boxer, skillful and crafty in the ring, defending his hard won, long sought crown, trading heavy punches for 12 rounds and by most accounts well ahead on points right until the very end of the most electrifying boxing match ever. You can count the number of boxers who went toe to toe with the Rock for 12 rounds on the fingers of one hand.
Even if little white Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little white Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
Maybe little white Rocky could have beaten that circus clown Jess Willard who was paraded around for 4 years without a single fight. Or maybe he could have even beat that other circus clown Primo Carnera who was daily alcoholic (like Andre the Giant) and 100% mafioso controlled. The ‘ambling alp’ was an awful boxer with gigantism or acromegaly (like Andre the Giant). He was promoted as a monster because of his size, but he was really clumsy and couldn`t punch with his full weight, he was completely exposed by Joe Louis who easily battered Primo into submission.
Y'all white Marciano lovers fail to ever mention Marciano's Forced retirement. Why? Because Marciano couldn't take the pain anymore from two confirmed nose surgeries, hand surgery, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used as a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around,, here,, you hit me five times,, and I'll hit you back one time,, Duh. And all that talk about retiring for his family nonsense was simply a bull•••• publicity stunt because he immediately abandoned his family and left them penniless when he perished.
Rocky's numbers may not lie, *but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion.* So let's examine those 13 opponents *(not in order)* that he supposedly *FORCED INTO RETIREMENT* instantaneously.
#1) *Amateur* Lee Epperson - *0 wins 0 losses.* Shameful to even count this as "Forced-Retirement." *Retired from what??* He never even had a career. Epperson was probably *15 years old like Walcott and Moore were* when they first started.
#2) *Amateur* Jimmy Weeks - *0 wins 0 losses.* Embarrassing to count this as "Forced-Retirement." *Probably another 15 year old.*
#3) *Amateur* John Edwards - *1 win 1 loss.* Y'all gonna count this as *"Forced Retirement"* also???
#4) We factually know that ring-worn-n-washed Joe Louis only came back because the *IRS-FORCED him to.* As soon as IRS took Joe's purse for fightin Rocky he was *finally outta there for good!!!!*
#5) Walcott only returned for Marciano-2 for another *easy $250K.* Walcott received the *lions share both fights.* Had Walcott continued fightin he would have only received a *fraction* of that. *$250K back then is $2.6 million today.* Little Rocky never "Forced-Retirement" upon Walcott,, he *"QUIT"!!!!*
#6) Lee Savold age was 36 with *153 bouts.* His manager, *Bill Daily, asked referee Pete Tomasso to stop the uneven match at the end of the sixth round. "The will was there but not the body," said Daily. "I'm going to advise Lee to retire Tomorrow."* Lee didn't even throw a punch, he just stood there like a heavy punching bag. *Completely washed* Savold was only there for his last *Big-Paycheck!!!!*
#7) 254-lb Humphrey *"The-Bum"* Jackson - *4 wins 2 losses* with 28% KO's *F-LEVEL* Jackson never beat a winning fighter. It only took *0:34** seconds* for Jackson to be KO'd in his first fight, and *1:28* in his last fight. The less said about *"The-Bum"* the better.
#8) Jimmy Evans - *18 wins 8 losses* with 50% KO's *F-LEVEL* Evans fought *10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Evans weighed 178 lbs. *Too many light heavyweights.*
#9) Harry Haft - *12 wins 8 losses* with 35% KO's *F-LEVEL* Harry was only 5' 9" 174 lbs. *Isn't this supposed to be the Heavyweight division???*
#10) Gino Buonvino - *24 wins 15 losses* with *10%* KO's *F-LEVEL* Marciano fights Buonvino *"TWICE"* ..why???
#11) Eldridge Eatman - *22 wins 21 losses* with 22% KO's *F-LEVEL* Marciano fought Eatman who had just lost *8 of his last 9 fights* Rocky's handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone decent after coming so close to losing against LaStarza. *"'Eatman proved no opposition for Marciano,'" according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, "'Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT'"* ..Eatman's profession was *paddin records.*
#12) Pete Louthis was 32-13-5 with 35% KO's *F-LEVEL* Pete fought *amateur* Willie James with a *0-0-0 debut* record only 2 fights before facing Marciano. Pete fought *10 amateurs with 0-0-0 debut* records. For Pete's sake he also fought another *20 opponents that had 10 or less fights.*
#13) Carmine Vingo -- 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KO's looks okay until you see *ALL 16* wins came against *F-LEVEL* opponents. The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. *He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."* Rocky's manager Al Weill said the same thing in Marciano's biography 'Unbeaten', *"Vingo hit his head on the flooring, then he went unconscious."*
So it was the plywood flooring that partially paralyzed Vingo, not Marciano's punch. It's no wonder *Vingo said, "I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin*
After all this time i was *mislead* into believing that Vingo was this twenty year old superstar being prepped to become the next Heavyweight champ. Instead he was prepped for *SLAUGHTER JUST TO PLEASE A CROWD --Carmine Vingo*
*IT APPEARS LITTLE ROCKY DID NOT FORCE-RETIRE ""ANY"" OF THESE BOXERS*
Speaking of numbers, lets look at the numbers (records) of some of Rockys
opponents
1. Joe Walcott 49-20-1 You say he lost 41% of his fights. Not even close
2. Bill Wilson 56-27-3 You say he lost 50 % of his fights. Not even close
3. Johnny Shkor 31-19-2 You say he lost 62% of his fights. Not even close
Seriously, how did you come up with these losing percentages? Are you
A. outright lying or
B. Just real Dum?
Boxing Historian Monte Cox wrote: “Liston was made to be a fighter. His physical attributes bordered on the freakish. At six-foot, one-inch, he had an eighty-four inch reach-longer than that of all other champions with the exception of Primo Carnera. His neck was a massive eighteen inches. But the number that leaps off the page-the statistic that looks initially lik' a typo-is that which corresponds to his hands. When closed into a fist, they measured fifteen inches around, virtually twice the size of an average man’s. To contemplate the impact of a fist that large, delivered over a distance that great, from a man so determined to do damage, would give even the bravest opponent pause."
The great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS
Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Holmes Wladimir Foreman Liston Tyson Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Holyfield Usyk Cooney Tua Morrison Golota Dokes Mercer Povetkin Byrd Haye Bruno Rahman Whyte Ruiz Cleveland Williams etc. are all faster than slow-little Rocky despite being so much Bigger. Marciano fans know that Rocky's not winning any of these fights but will never admit it. Stop living in denial. Rocky is so overrated and definitely doesn't deserve to be ranked within the top 10. Maybe 28th place in top 30
@@blackdavidfrostnDesMoines You state Marciano is overrated. So what are your credentials to be making such a claim? Do you have any or are you just a hater who runs his mouth on youtube?
George said in an interview with Ring Magazine: “Sparring with Liston is the most dangerous thing that I ever did in my entire life. No matter what I tried against him, it was me who had to revert back to boxing. Nobody made me box like Sonny Liston did and that happened every time we worked together. He taught me many things, including the importance of the jab.”
A good example of Sonny's sheer strength was an exercise he devised in training camp of loading an industrial sized wheelbarrow full of rocks, and wheeling it up and down a hill. Foreman, 19, and training with "the old man," could only carry one wheelbarrow for every 3 for Sonny: “His strength," said Foreman, "you just can't believe how strong he was!"
Sonny liston gets such a shit wrap because of prison and people think je was just a .onster.. everything I've heard about him is that he wasn't comfortable in public setting but behind the scenes he was am excellent family man. He had to carry that stern look just to make it especially in those Times.
@@bobbyd1492 Very impressive use of capital letters.
Sonny Liston's arms were like tree trunks and his two 15 inch ham-handed fist were made for destruction. He was able to generate incredible bone breaking teeth shattering leverage with his 84" reach. Nobody goes toe to toe with Sonny, not even Big George. Liston would have KO'd little Rocky in 1-round.
Even if little white Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little white Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
That LaStarza was a tough cookie. Respect for taking that beating and still standing.
Marciano's first fight vs. LaStarza was *officially called a draw* That is until the mafioso stepped in on Rocky's behalf. We do know factually that Ross and Eatman *Took-A-Dive* ..Was it for $$$ or were they forced to protect themselves and their families from the same folks that protected Marciano?
*"'Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day,"'* *(BoxRec)* ...in *less than 24 hours* 170 lb Eddie Ross also fought 160 lb Billy Sparks who had 6 wins 11 losses. *Ross fought 10 amateurs with 0-0-0 debut records.*
Eldridge Eatman had 22 wins 20 losses with an abysmal 22% KO's. *"'Eatman proved no opposition for Marciano,'" according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, "'Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT'"* ..That's not all,, the last 9 fights Eatman had leading up to his fight with Marciano he went *1 win 8 losses.*
*I understand throwing matches also happened before Rocky's time and after Rocky's time. But the 50s boxing era was the pinnacle for corruption and 100% monopolized. Padding records and taking dives didn't happen once a month, it was the daily norm. It factually happened and cannot ever be swept under the carpet.*
*During National Prohibition of alcohol (20s & 30s) many Italian Kingpins similar to Al Capone were able to rack in $100 million each year thanks to the overwhelming business opportunity of illegal booze. The majority of extortion and loansharking gangs were Italian. Lucky Luciano, Johnny Torrio, Al Capone, Vito Genovese, John Gotti, Carlo Gambino, thousands of bosses, underbosses and soldiers, it was all Sicilian.*
*Marciano was killed flying to Des Moines to pick up $35K from Lew Farrell, a mob underboss. The meeting place was Dowling Catholic High school. Lew Farrell's son Frankie, 22, also died with Marciano when they slammed into an oak tree. Mr. Greedy Infidel knowingly flew during severe weather with an amateur pilot.*
*The day after he retired he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands. He also started his loansharking business--(psychosis and other symptoms he suffered)--@ 1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI*
Since the 80s 'The Ring' always seems to have little Marciano ranked in the top-3. Yet I've seen other polls where he's not ranked in the top-10. Polls and rankings are only opinionated from folks just lik' us. Keep in mind that the 'The Ring' excludes *WEIGHT* as a factor from their results. For seven years little Marciano only averaged 184lbs. How the hell does a little 184lb man rank higher than dozens of genuine 200+lbs Heavyweights and 224+lbs Super Heavyweights?? Perfect example being 6' 7" 250 pound Vitali Klitschko who never hit the canvas and only lost twice due to torn rotator-cuff and severe cut.
*Anybody who really understands boxing also understands rankings should always be taken with a grain of salt.*
*I could EASILY list 30-top-notch Super Heavyweights from the 1990s to the 2020s who would obliterate tiny dwarfism-arms.*
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. When he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history.
Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."
Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Mike Tyson got knocked out FIVE times ha-ha, and Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha. IT'S NOT HOW YOU START IT'S HOW YOU FINISH."
57 year old Lennox is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable.
*The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...*[[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]].* Other notable mentions; *Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson* ..Name another Super Heavyweight with a better resume? Only person i can think of is Wladimir Klitschko.
How many *"prime"* 200+lb HW Champions
did 185-lb dwarfism-arms fight? *""ZERO""!!!!*
Imagine little Marciano tryin to fight
top-notch Super Heavyweights with
80" to 86" albatross wingspans
and 40 to 90-lb weight advantages?
Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles was definitely Marciano's toughest opponent and is the only person that took him 15 rounds even *with ALS!!!*
*ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."*
*People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.*
*In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."*
*Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Anyone who says Rocky beat an old man in Archie Moore that night, remember, Archie Moore held the Light Heavyweight title five (5) more years after being beaten by Marciano ! The point here is despite his age, Archie Moore was far from being past his prime when he fought Rocky !
What is a Heavyweight Champion doing fighting a little light heavyweight?
That entire division was horrendous. Full of little light heavyweights.
Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier both fought Bob Foster, the Light Heavyweight Champion, not uncommon in boxing !@@Bronco_Billy_Jack_Hills
Bert Sugar and Jimmy Cannon were sports journalist inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for their vast amounts of boxing knowledge. @1:00:00 Bert Sugar said, "It wasn't a great heavyweight division at this time." Then Bert quotes Jimmy Cannon who said, "Because of the mobs influence at the time, Rocky Marciano stands out like a rose in a Garbage Dump."
Mr. Sugar was widely regarded as the “boxing bible," and he just said, "Rocky's era was not great." I trust his opinion more than crooked-scammer Don Turner. Sugar wrote more than 80 books and was ranked as "The Greatest Boxing Writer of the 20th Century" by the International Veterans Boxing Association.
Among his boxing books are Sting like a Bee, Great Fights, Bert Sugar on Boxing, 100 Years of Boxing, The 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time, The Thrill of Victory, The Ageless Warrior and Boxing's Greatest Fighters.
Rocky fans love to use quote after quote after endless quotes to defend their little hero but totally ignore any and all negative quotes. Just sweep em under the carpet. Typical double standard. Same applies with mob influence which controlled every single facet of the 1950's boxing era.
Both Ted Lowry and Roland LaStarza went to their graves saying they beat overrated Rocco Francis Marchegiano first fight, and all the newspaper reporters and fans ringside agreed. The Great authentic Heavyweight Larry Holmes referred to little Rocco padding his record by fighting his brother Peter Marchegiano on at least 3 or 4 occasions so as to boost his record, his brother fought under alias names ..this has also been mentioned in various books. Marchegiano's 49-0 record is FLAWED.
Could you imagine 41 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore busting up King Fury and Big George Foreman or any of the great Super Heavyweights? Yet Marciano had all he could handle and was floored with one glancing shot from the light heavyweight grandfather.
The problem with your statement freak boy is that it is simply not true. Rocky did not have all he could handle with Archie Moore. He beat the daylights out of him. And I noticed you called him a grandfather as to imply he was past his prime. Well, I am still waiting tik tok tik tok, to hear from you when Archie Moore was in his prime. Why do you keep ducking that question? Could it be cowardice?
@@David_Frost_Stout_Krout And why did you change the name of this account from Gregory Rochette to Stout Krout?
@@David_Frost_Stout_Krout Hey Freak Boy. His resume does speak for itself. His resume is the reason behind the quotes that you are constantly crying about. Here is something that isn't a quote
Ring Magazine HW all time Greatest Heavyweights from 2017
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4.Rocky Marciano
5.Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7 George Foreman
8 Joe Frazier
9 Mike Tyson
10 Sonny Liston
@@bobbyd1492 Hey there Fake Bobby D. Why did you change your name? The name on this accunt was Sophia Rossi De Luca John 3:16 when you opened it on Jan. 18, 2022. Why is your name now Bobby D? Why is that Freak Boy
@@bobbyd1492 Hey Freak Boy. Here are some of the new account names you are using now.
Lemmon Luke Whitaker. Napolean Barberini. Adam Kingsley, David Beau Jackson, Robert Isaas Cunningham
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop Marciano then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
Bobby D Henry Cooper 185 almost knocked Ali out of Ali didn’t cheat
It wasn't until after Marciano's death in 1969 that his fame really started to grow. Don't get me wrong, he was extremely famous to the Italians on the upper east coast during his very short 7 year boxing career but that was about it. After his death is when all the exaggerated articles begin to appear. 1977 was when his first biography was written. Then it just grew and grew. But before that he was barely on the radar. All the boxing historians and professionals that actually saw him fight never ranked him higher than 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th place.
What about washed-up 40 year old Louis and nobody cares about washed-up light heavyweights Charles Moore and Walcott. Authentic Heavyweights King Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ali Holmes Foreman Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Dokes Grant Povetkin Whyte Ruiz Parker Ortiz Wilder Wladimir Tua Tyson would have OBLITERATED those tiny light heavyweights
--(Acute paranoid psychosis symptoms Marciano suffered)--@ '1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI
After little white Rocky abruptly 'Quit' boxing during his 'Prime' he immediately abandoned his family to sleep with thousands, then left them penniless. What a soab - Classy guy though.
95% of little Marciano's opponents were of dubious quality with lousy records. And considering his has-been on the downward slide ATG opposition, and the fact that he "Quit" during his "Prime", his 49-0 really isn't that good.
🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️
It was commonplace to have 70 fights like Louis and Walcott, or 121 like Charles, or even 219 fights like Moore had during the 30's, 40's and 50's time period. Little Rocky only had 49, which was actually kind of cowardly for that time period.
little white Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
Muhammad Ali said in "The Greatest": "with George I had to let him hit me, with Sonny I had to keep him from hitting me!”
Rocky Marciano said of Liston: “He isn't faking his toughness, and his strength is just something you got to see, and that jab, he can knock a man out with the jab!" When asked how he would have fought him, the Rock shook his head and said “I’d have done my best, but Lord God he is strong…”
Joe Louis said in Gods of War: "It didn’t matter what stance Sonny fought from, he was the best I ever saw.”
Nino Valdes, as he lay dying from cancer, drugged heavily with morphine, was asked by his family if it hurt, and said: “Not as bad as getting hit by Sonny Liston!"
Sonny Liston v. Wayne Bethea Aug 1958 -- Referee stops the fight upon discovering many of Bethea's teeth in his mouthpiece. Bethea, a tough journeyman who had never been off his feet, said after being stopped by Liston: “He must have hit me with a horseshoe in his glove!" Liston hit Bethea and knocked out 7 of his teeth, broke 9 more for 16 lost teeth from one blow!
Zora Folley, then #1 contender for the heavyweight title, said when Liston hit him: “The lights went out, when I woke up, I asked Sonny, what happened, and he said ‘I hit you."
Jonathan Eig wrote of Sonny in Ali: A Life: “Liston does not merely defeat his opponents. He breaks them, shames them, haunts them, leaves them flinching from his punches in their dreams."
"When Sonny was forced to throw the Ali rematch, his reputation and legacy went down with him. A predominantly white, racist media always feared and hated Liston, and were only too happy to humiliate him after that bout, and forget about him almost entirely after he died." -- author Paul Gallender
The story of Liston winning the title from Patterson, memorizing a thank-you speech to deliver when he arrived back home (memorized because he couldn’t read) and then realizing nobody was waiting for him at the airport, and how crushed he was... fuckin' sad, man.
Sonny was born into a family that couldn't afford for him to go to school, and when the family mule died, his mother and sisters claimed Sonny's father hitched his 9 year old son to the plow. Liston was a different breed; what a specimen.
Resilient, relentless, swarming, durable, belief, tough,
powerful,.....Unbeaten.....Rocky Marciano
Little Marciano will always be one of my faves but I'm a realist that understands his limitations. Rocky's two best opponents were light heavyweights that simply moved up for the money because the division was completely void of any decent 200+lb 'Heavyweights'. Name ONE prime 200+lb 'Heavyweight' he fought? The answer is ""ZERO""
And why would he care to fight, what you call, a topnotch prime 200+lb Heavyweight?
The years Rocky fought, 1947- 1955 it was commonplace for LH's to beat the topnotch prime 200 lb + HW's. During Rocky's era. defeating. who you like to call cruiserweights. Joe Walcott and Ezzard Charles twice each. was considered a much more impressive feat
I have to agree with you.
Don't be fooled by his size or awkward style, Marciano was a beast.
👍
You know, even the reach of Manny Pacquiaos was more than two inches over that of Marcianos. That's a feat in itself owed to show skill of Marciano. Compact and lethal.
Gee thanks
@Stout Krout Stout Krout Stout Krout Stout Krout boy...you don't know boxing kid
Sonny had a-albatross 84″ reach. Little Rocky had a-stubby 67" reach. A 17″ reach advantage is a tall order to overcome, but when the man with the reach advantage is the most fearsome puncher in history it’s insurmountable. Marciano’s style was tailor made for Liston. Liston’s power and reach would have been too much for the plodding face first Marciano.
And what do you know? You know nothing. Case in point. Here is an earlier post from you and your stolen Louis J. Marciano account
Louis J. Marciano
4 weeks ago
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick
The problem with your post is it is a big lie. Liston was not 6 ft 2. He was 6 ft. 1. And Liston, in his prime. NEVER weighed 220 lbs.
Seriously, where do the lies end with you?
Bullshit
Marciano would of stay close and backed him up like he did to everyone
@@Studentofsweetscience Ring Magazine HW all time Greatest Heavyweights from 2017
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4.Rocky Marciano
5.Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7 George Foreman
8 Joe Frazier
9 Mike Tyson
10 Sonny Liston
@@Studentofsweetscience And yet you NEVER post any of these so called polls do you? Why is that Freak Boy? And it is pathetic how you try and accuse me of being you Black David. I have one account. How many do you have?
Best conditioned fighter who ever lived...great heart...power...stamina...chin of iron...ridiculous work rate...hurt you no matter where he hit you...never took a backward step...threw punches in bunches...broke bone and blood vessels...pain meant nothing...he feared no man...49-0...43 KO's...put The Rock in with anyone!
100% he was the one and only heavyweight champ!
@@David_Frost_Stout_Krout Good god what a pile of detracting crap.
After little white Rocky abruptly 'Quit' boxing during his 'Prime' he immediately abandoned his family to sleep with thousands, then left them penniless. What a soab - Classy guy though.
Y'all like my new VR1000 !?! It's a water cooled fuel injected v twin with overhead cam and 4 valves per cylinder, it has 13.5 : 1 compression ratio, pumps out a little over 100 ponies and does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. It taks a man to ride this bike, that's why I just sold it. Had to. My Mexican American wife Mexicali Margot made me. She's right because i only weigh a very skinny 137 pounds and have never riden a motorcycle. My nickname is Toothpick My real name is David Frost, I use all these other aliases just to make the white man mad. I also had to sell all my clothes, shoes, and my terrific collection of cigarette butts. But that's what my wife Margot wanted. And I do anything for her. She may be 86 years old, but she's toothless and gives a great bj, I can't really get it up anymore so she just kind of gums around and slobbers on it. It feels pretty good tho.
The great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
Except in his prime Liston NEVER weighed 220 lbs. Never, not one time did he weigh 220 lbs. in his prime
@@bobbyd1492 He was 212 verus Cleveland Williams both times. 212 for Foley, 213 when he fought Patterson the first time. He was NEVER 220 in his prime. Never Freak Boy
@@David_Frost_Stout_Krout And you keep on ducking the question. When was Moore in his prime? When? You have been ducking that question for weeks now
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
@@blackdavidfrostnDesMoines Except he was 6 ft 1 not 6 ft 2. And in his prime Liston NEVER weighed 220. Nice Try Freak Boy
Rocky Marciano was a destroyer of fighters. He overwhelmed his opponents with non-stop aggression and incredible punching power. Most fighters that stepped into the ring with Rocky were ruined or retired. Probably the most destructive fighting force under 190.
The best there ever was, hands down.
The great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
@@David_Frost_Stout_KroutHey Freak Boy. Why did you change the name on this account from Gregory Rochette To Stout Krout?
Incredible punching power against a 37 yr old Walcott a 37 yr old Louis and a 39 yr old Archie Moore. Great power and stamina beating on old fighters
Liston was out of boxing for almost two years between 1956 and 1958 while he was incarcerated again. So he was exiled during his best years when he was just starting to really shine. Most fighters enter their Prime in their late 20’s or early 30's - Sonny was just starting to learn his craft at that age!
There is no official record of Sonny Liston's birth date. He was born on a sharecropper’s plot in Arkansas, a state which did not require mandatory birth certificates until 1965.
According to his sister and recent research by Paul Gallender in 'Sonny Liston - The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights', Sonny was born in 1919, and was 44 when he fought Ali.
His sister, who he was extremely close to, and who remembered his birth - he was much younger than she was - said, "Sonny was born the year after the Great (WW1) War." Which would have made him 44 when he fought Ali and 50 when he inflicted 338 stitches to Chuck Wepner's face.
Meantime little Rocky embarrassingly 'up-n-QUIT' at only 31 years of age lmao. How "Pathetic"
Since when did length of career become the defining term for BRAVERY or GREATNESS? When? When did that happen? Never thats when.
HW great Joe Frazier retired at the age of 32. He only had 36 professional fights.
Jim Brown retired from the NFL at the age of 29. George Mikan, considered the greatest basketball player of the 1st half of the 20th century, also retired at the age of 29. Noone doubts their bravery or greatness.
You trying to make length of career a yardstick for measuring bravery or greatness is just another pathetic attempt on your part to belittle Marciano
@@bobbyd1776 WALCOTT LOSSES:
1. In 1930 Walcott was DISQUALIFIED-(loss) vs. KO Palmer. Walcott intentionally hit 159-pound Palmer in the back of his neck while he was draped over the ropes. *Where is the Heavyweights? In 1930 Marciano was "SEVEN" years old.
2. In 1931 163-pound Walcott lost by decision to 158-pound Carl Mays. *Is this the Heavyweight division? Marciano was "EIGHT" years old.
3. In 1933 Walcott lost by decision to 177-pound Henry Taylor. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "TEN" years old.
4. In 1936 Walcott was "KOd" by 191-pound Al Ettore. Marciano was "THIRTEEN" years old.
5. In 1936 Walcott lost by decision to 179-pound Billy Ketchell. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "THIRTEEN" years old.
6. In 1937 Walcott was"KOd" by 178-pound Tiger Jack Fox. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "FOURTEEN" years old.
7. In 1937 Walcott lost by decision to 174-pound George Brothers. *Where is the Heavyweight division? Marciano was "FOURTEEN" years old.
8. In 1938 Walcott lost by decision to 184-pound Tiger Jack Fox "Again". *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "FIFTEEN" years old.
9. In 1938 Walcott lost by decision to 197-pound Roy Lazer. Marciano was "FIFTEEN" years old.
10. In 1940 Walcott was "KOd" AND "retired" for three years by 256-pound Abe Simon. Hey, a-real Super Heavyweight. Simon's best stuff was size and brute strength. Unfortunately he was a poor boxer with terrible defense. Abe retired in 1942. Marciano was "SEVENTEEN" years old.
11. In 1945 Walcott lost by decision to 204-pound Johnny Allen who had more losses than wins. Marciano was "TWENTY TWO" years old.
12. In 1946 Walcott lost by decision to 179-pound Joey Maxim. *Is this the Heavyweight division? Marciano was "TWENTY THREE" years old.
13. In 1946 Walcott lost by decision to 191-pound Elmer Ray. Marciano was "TWENTY THREE" years old.
14. In 1947 Walcott lost by decision to 212-pound Joe Louis. Marciano was "TWENTY FOUR" years old.
15. In 1948 Walcott was KOd by 213-pound Joe Louis. Louis barely got through the C-level cruiserweight Journeyman Walcott so he announced his retirement on March 1, 1949 because his once speedy reflexes were non-existent. Louis was completely washed and it showed. Marciano was "TWENTY FIVE" years old.
16. In 1949 Walcott lost by decision to 181-pound Ezzard Charles. This fight was for the ""vacant"" Heavyweight title. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "TWENTY SIX" years old.
17. In 1950 Walcott lost by decision to 192-pound Rex Layne. Marciano was "TWENTY SEVEN" years old.
18. In 1951 Walcott lost by decision to 185-pound Ezzard Charles. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "TWENTY EIGHT" years old.
19. In 1952 Walcott was KOd by 184-pound Rocky Marciano. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "TWENTY NINE" years old..
IT IS VIRTUALLY IMPRACTICAL THAT WALCOTT WAS IN HIS PRIME vs. MARCIANO BECAUSE IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY AND MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!!!! AND JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY HE WAS PRIME DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!!!! PUT WALCOTT AT (( 29 )) AND MARCIANO AT (( 38 )) WHAT HAPPENS??
20. In 1953 Walcott was KOd by 184-pound Rocky Marciano. *Where is the Heavyweights? Marciano was "THIRTY" years old and Walcott was very close to "FORTY"!!!!
( It was advantages that Marciano started late because he was fresh while the others were already smashed around lik bowling pins for (15) years. Also little Rocky did have an extensive amateur career. His uncle hung a heavy bag in the back yard when he was only 10 years old, and he had years of daily sparing while he was in the military )
@@Jabbing_Jack I do recall you posting numerous times that Walcott weighed up to 197 lbs during his career. Since you are such the Walcott historian now can you tell me how much he weighed for his 1950 fights with Rex Layne and Hein Ten Hoff?
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop little white Rocky then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
@@blackdavidfrostnDesMoines How did little white Rocky do in these fights? Did he win or did he lose?
Ali fought both Foreman and Liston, and he said that when it came to George he just had to take the hits and wear big George down, in the case of Liston, he simply did not want to get hit at all. So for Ali it was certainly Sonny that hit harder. Foreman trained with Liston after the Olympics, preparing him for pro boxing. George said Sonny was the only man that had ever pushed him backwards with sheer strength alone. He also said that you were always really careful not to make Sonny mad! I think it is pretty safe to say that Sonny Liston hit harder than George Foreman.
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
You white people should know the truth about Rocky, he was homosexual. Sorry if that hurts, but it shouldn't. He had to stay in the closet, it was just the way of the times. Today people like Rocky and me don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed. When I came out it was like taking a huge weight off of my shoulders. But don't wait like I did, I have a wife and kid that I would never had if I had not succumbed to the pressure of trying to act normal. I love Margot, but I'm not in love with her, and she understands, we stay together for our daughter. All three of us share the much of the same clothes, make-up, and interests. We're a pretty happy family.
Rocky was one in a million. Hardest puncher that ever lived according to legendary trainer Don Turner. Little in size ....5'10" 187 lbs. Shorter arms than Manny Pacquiao. Rocky trained 8 months straight for a fight. Insanity. No one ever trained so long. He had a 300 lb custom leather heavy bag made just for him. He hit you anyplace he could find your elbow your biceps your forearm you were in pain. By the third round if you lasted you couldn't lift your arms
Consider that in the Dec. 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano finishing a distant 7th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 7th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Marciano? This is a key point. Boxing historians Herb Goldman and Charley Rose rated Marciano at # 8, "Mr. Boxing, himself," Nat Fleischer rated him at # 10 and John McCallum's Survey of Old Timers (survey of a group of historians and writers) had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Maricano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time Heavyweight and 68 years have passed since Rocky retired.
*SO HOW EXACTLY DOES A LITTLE 184 POUND CRUISERWEIGHT WITH DWARFISM ARMS POSSIBLY GO FROM 7TH 8TH 9TH & 10th PLACE DURING THE 60s AND EARLY 70s TO TOP THREE (3) IN 2023???*
*Bcus his ranking is now determined by modern computer metric algorithms. Problem is this man-made program was coded to exclude "WEIGHT" from the equation.* That's why little 165lb Heavyweight champion Bob Fitzsimmons from the 1800s is ranked ahead of 240lb Riddick Bowe who only lost "one" time. How's it possible 185lb Marciano ranks higher than Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Vitali, Bowe, Wladimir, Fury etcetera??? *Well now we all know why!!!*
Somehow ranking bodies manage to *exclude WEIGHT from their metric* even though they *ACKNOWLEDGE SEVENTEEN (17) DIFFERENT "WEIGHT" CLASSES,,* imagine that.
The computer only sees what it's programmed to see. Algorithms only see Marciano fought 4 Hall of Famers and went 49-0, it doesn't see Charles had ALS and 41yr old Moore was a light heavyweight moonlighting at Heavyweight. The algorithms cannot see 37yr old Louis was forced to come out of retirement and 39yr old Journeyman Walcott was given 6 attempts at the title bcus the division was so weak. *THAT'S WHY RANKINGS SHOULD ALWAYS BE LOOKED UPON WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!*
You white people should know the truth about Rocky, he was homosexual. Sorry if that hurts, but it shouldn't. He had to stay in the closet, it was just the way of the times. Today people like Rocky and me don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed. When I came out it was like taking a huge weight off of my shoulders. But don't wait like I did, I have a wife and kid that I would never had if I had not succumbed to the pressure of trying to act normal. I love Margot, but I'm not in love with her, and she understands, we stay together for our daughter. All three of us share the much of the same clothes, make-up, and interests. We're a pretty happy family.
Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
He’d struggle with Ali too. But he’d probably find a way to knock him out.
Rocky pounded you relentlessly......endless cardio, endless fury, all champion..
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🔥If anyone was a QUITTER it was Rocky. He-c-o-w-a-r-d-l-y-quit after a measly 7 years during his prime at only 31 while Liston was still fightin at 50. Little lowlife Marciano also "QUIT" on his own kid's and wife!
So Fury, Lewis, Vitali, and Foreman all would have lost if they fought the hyped-up tomato cans little Marciano fought? Give me a break. LaStarza, Savold, Cockell, and Matthews would be humiliated in the real Heavyweight world.
Since when did length of career become the defining term for BRAVERY or GREATNESS? When? When did that happen? Never thats when.
HW great Joe Frazier retired at the age of 32. He only had 36 professional fights.
Jim Brown retired from the NFL at the age of 29. George Mikan, considered the greatest basketball player of the 1st half of the 20th century, also retired at the age of 29. Noone doubts their bravery or greatness.
You trying to make length of career a yardstick for measuring bravery or greatness is just another pathetic attempt on your part to belittle Marciano
@@bobbyd1776 yer analogies have the IQ test score of a 3 year old.
Actually the comparison between Brown and Marciano is an excellent one. It is not quite as good as the comparison between Frazier and Rocky but it is an excellent one nonetheless. Football and boxing are 2 extremely violent sports so the comparison is easy to see for anyone with half a brain.
And here you go exaggerating again with your statement Liston was still fighting at 50. Seeing how he died at the age of 40 how is that possible?.
🔥Paranoid psychoses, overly aggressive and violent behavior--(symptoms Marciano suffered)--@ '1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI
🔥If anyone was a QUITTER it was Rocky. He-c-o-w-a-r-d-l-y-quit after a measly 7 years during his prime at only 31 while Liston was still fightin at 50. Little lowlife Marciano also "QUIT" on his own kid's and wife!
Rocky picks up in the 2nd Walcott fight right where he left off in the 1st, in which he flattens Joe using a left feint followed up by the Suzie Q right for the KO. In the 2nd fight Marciano feints right/left before the right uppercut that knocks him down. The Rock solved the Walcott style in the first fight, and Joe retired after this one, realizing Marciano had his number.
Once he found a way in he never forgot how. Rocky was devastation in rematches.
Little Marciano will always be one of my faves but I'm a realist that understands his limitations. Rocky's two best opponents were light heavyweights that simply moved up for the money because the division was completely void of any decent 200+lb 'Heavyweights'. Name ONE prime 200+lb 'Heavyweight' he fought? The answer is ""ZERO""
So Marciano threw 100 punches in a round? Lol give me a break. Number one Marciano only weighed 185. So even if he threw 100 punches in a round what would that prove? Why compare a light heavyweight punch numbers to a true-Heavyweight. Only sik-minded fanboys would even try to compare.
MARCIANO HAD 49 FIGHTS, ALL VICTORIES! KO'D 90%! BEST EVER!
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost *"Time"* tends to give to a fighters ranking.
1962:
In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40
boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the
#1 Heavyweight of all-time, with Joe Louis
2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th.
1971:
In 1971, Nat Fleischer, boxing's most
famous historian and also editor and founder
of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the
all-time 10th greatest Heavyweight champion.
1998:
Despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's et al.," in 1998, Ring magazine named Marciano as the 6th greatest Heavyweight champion ever.
2005:
We float around to 2005, and in 2005,
Marciano was named the 5th greatest
Heavyweight of all-time by the
International Boxing Research Organization.
2007:
In 2007, Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by ESPN behind (in order) Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and Jack Dempsey.
2023:
We skip to the modern day,
and somehow he's been
bumped up to 3rd.
Will he one day be
greater than Ali???
It's easy to see little Rocky's progression. The key is understanding *why?* Despite his perfect record against the weakest 'Heavyweight' division of all-time, Marciano was never close to being rated towards the top throughout the 60s. So why did he climb from *10th* in 71, *6th* in 98, to *4th* in 07? Becus the greatest boxing historian whoever lived and founder of The Ring Mr. Boxing himself Nat Fleischer died in 72. They all started passing away including Rocky in 69. That's when his fame really started to grow. Don't get me wrong, little Rocky was extremely famous to Italians throughout the upper east coast but that was about it.
*After his death is when all the sympathy articles begin to appear. Then it just grew and grew to the point where he could walk on water and beat every Super Heavyweight champion with ease. Little Rocky was so awesome that Don Turner said, "Marciano could KO both Klitschko brothers at the same time in the first round."*
*Little Marciano was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , because when he walked the earth shook.*
Foreman, probably the most formidable puncher in boxing history said that Liston is the only man he ever faced that made him back-up and revert to boxing. Much bigger, stronger sluggers like Liston, Foreman and Ibeabuchi would knock little Marciano into tomorrow before he could get close enough to land any shots of his own. Watch footage of Foreman destroying Frazier twice and Liston destroying Patterson twice. That’s exactly what would happen to little Marciano if he met a prime Liston!!!
Marciano simply walked away from boxing and his family to fullfil his wicked desires of sleeping with thousands. He also turned to loansharking and needless to say, left his family penniless!
How do you know
Facts combined with simple basic boxing knowledge suggest wins for Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Holmes Ali Wladimir Foreman Tyson Joyce Tua Usyk Holyfield Bruno Ruddock Witherspoon Whyte Parker Ruiz Ortiz Dokes Mercer Rahman Shavers Lyle Thomas Weaver Dokes Liston Morrison Grant Cooney Wilder, and twenty more over little 185 lb Marciano.
Could all those guys beat Mike Tyson? Coz Rocky would have. He deserves more respect than you’re giving him. He’s in the top 5 heavyweights of all time, and you talking about him like he’s a little kid.
@@mattcorcoran7082 185 ain't no Heavyweight. Rocky Marciano was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Marciano biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67 inches (1.70 meters)--incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison, today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7 inch reach, longer than Rocky's. There is no question that Marciano was superbly conditioned by the standards of the day; however, at his fighting weight of 184-189lbs (roughly 83-86kg) during his title defences, he was not incredibly lean and he wasn't dehydrated; he was, in other words, a natural light heavyweight or very small cruiserweight by today's standards.
"Walking around weight" isn't a useful metric for determining a boxer's ideal weight division or in-the-ring weight unless one knows--at the very least--the boxer's bodyfat percentage at his "walking around weight". Some boxers stay lean between fights, others get quite fat. Marciano always stayed lean. For 7 years his average weight was 184lbs. In other words Marciano never was nor could ever be a natural 200+lb Heavyweight.
@@mattcorcoran7082 little Rocky WOULDN'T BEAT A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE HEAVYWEIGHTS AND SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS listed above. Fact.
@@mattcorcoran7082 he only fought senior citizens and bums
Rocky Marciano said of Liston: “He isn't faking his toughness, and his strength is just something you got to see, and that jab, he can knock a man out with the jab!" When asked how he would have fought him, the Rock shook his head and said “I’d have done my best, but Lord God he is strong…”
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
You white people should know the truth about Rocky, he was homosexual. Sorry if that hurts, but it shouldn't. He had to stay in the closet, it was just the way of the times. Today people like Rocky and me don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed. When I came out it was like taking a huge weight off of my shoulders. But don't wait like I did, I have a wife and kid that I would never had if I had not succumbed to the pressure of trying to act normal. I love Margot, but I'm not in love with her, and she understands, we stay together for our daughter. All three of us share the much of the same clothes, make-up, and interests. We're a pretty happy family.
That shows you what a champion The Rock was. He gives credit where credit is due. O losses. Scoreboard, to quote Jim Rome.
@@blackdavidfrostnDesMoines What kind of garbage are you spewing. Marciano was a light heavyweight and in a different weight class. You cannot compare a different era like that. The Gypsy wins by being massive. He has little boxing skill and is as clumsy as they make them. Foreman, Norton, Frazier, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis, the real Tyson, would have all eatin him for lunch and spit out his damn bones.
@@Studentofsweetscience You know the sport, clearly. I can't dispute one thing you say. I would say that Rock lasts longer than Floyd. He would get some shots in close, but he would absorb too much punishment. Even if he could I see Liston opening up cuts with his smashing jab and blows. I cannot disrespect Rocky though. 49-0.
One would think since Marciano was only 185 that he would at least have faster hands than the true Heavyweights right? But Maricano had the slowest hands I've ever seen on a boxer.
Y'all white Marciano lovers fail to ever mention Marciano's Forced retirement. Why? Because Marciano couldn't take the pain anymore from two confirmed nose surgeries, hand surgery, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used as a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around,, here,, you hit me five times,, and I'll hit you back one time,, Duh. And all that talk about retiring for his family nonsense was simply a bull•••• publicity stunt because he immediately abandoned his family and left them penniless when he perished.
So Marciano threw 100 punches in a round? Lol give me a break. Number one Marciano only weighed 185. So even if he threw 100 punches in a round what would that prove? Why compare a light heavyweight punch numbers to a true-Heavyweight. Only sik-minded fanboys would even try to compare.
In 1962 Ring Magazine polled 40 boxing experts on who was the greatest Heavyweight of all-time. These are historians who were actually there when he reigned as champion and Marciano's highest ranking was 7th place. The overwhelming majority rated him lower like Nat Fleischer had him at # 10, Charley Rose and McCallum's survey of old-timers rated him at # 9. All these people were born in the late 1800s and passed away in the 1960s and 70s.
Little 184lb Marciano is regarded by many as the greatest Heavyweight ever, best of the best. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights?? I don't see how his status remotely moves up with the multitude of great Heavyweights that came after him. All the professionals, trainers, managers, experts and historians who actually saw Rocky Marciano fight during the 50s and 60s thoroughly examined his career yet they barely ranked him top-10 Heavyweight, of all-time. *I trust Nat's opinion before y'all's gibberish casual diatribe.*
Genius Nat Fleischer (1887-1972) was the founder, president, publisher and editor of The Ring, a monthly magazine devoted to boxing and professional wrestling. Fleischer is called Mr. Boxing, or in the cant of masters of ceremony, "Mr. Boxing, himself," an introduction uniting man and legend. Fleischer’s story in many ways is the story of boxing. His experience is unlike that of anyone else from boxing’s past and certainly no one will ever be able to make his claims in the future.
In 1958 Fleischer wrote, “I have been on intimate terms with every heavyweight champion since James J. Corbett. I have seen almost every heavyweight championship bout in the past half century, and most of those in other divisions that reach across a stretch of many exciting years.” Fleischer in fact saw every heavyweight champion from Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier from ringside, most of those from the first row. Possibly no one else in history can make that claim. Fleischer’s unique perspective demands respect from those who are interested in the history of boxing.
Nat tended to just report the fights as he saw it from ringside and did not editorialize too much. Nat was well known for his ability to break down and describe the styles of fighters and the action that took place in the ring. Here are some descriptions of fighters there is film on so we can compare what Nat said of them to what we know from the films. We can then know that what he said about fighters whom we have little film on is also accurate.
Of Joe Louis he penned, in the April 1939 Ring, “He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests.” In the Mar. 1942 Ring, after Louis' destruction of the 6'6" 250 pound Buddy Baer, Nat Said that “Not even in the second fight with Max Schmeling did the Detroit Destroyer show as much as he did against Buddy. Joe had everything. He was magnificent. He was a whirlwind on attack, a master of defense, a terror with his devastating punches.”
In evaluating Rocky Marciano he wrote December 1955 Ring, “Those who believe that he lacks the necessary qualifications for gaining a niche in the fistic hall of fame as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time won’t argue that as a puncher, he takes his place alongside such greats as Jeffries, Louis and Dempsey. They limit his qualifications for greatness to the category of “hitting power”, strength and durability all of which Rocky possesses to a high degree but which are *insufficient to gain for him a place among the greats of the past.”* “Despite his crudeness, he can move about the ring at a pretty fast gate and can toss more punches than any heavyweight of recent years. But misses more frequently than any champion I’ve ever seen.” *“He has faced very few real punchers during his career.* The two best, Walcott and Moore- both thirty-eight at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. *Joe Louis is not included* since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.”
Besides putting out the highly regarded Ring-Fleischer has published Nat Fleischer's Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia.The Ring Record Book is the most comprehensive of all annual reference sources on boxing. Mainly in the interests of boxing, Fleischer has made 37 trips to Europe and has gone around the world six times, furiously writing all the while. He has 20 passports. Discounting entertainers, Fleischer is the most widely known U.S. private citizen abroad. He is enshrined in the Helms Hall of Fame in Los Angeles. Fleischer has refereed and judged more than 1,000 fights. All told, Fleischer has published 57 books of history, biography and instruction on boxing. Fleischer has a 268,800-word "bibliography" of boxing. Counting his articles for The Ring and serials and pieces he dashes off in an hour or so for foreign publications, it has been estimated that Fleischer has written 40 million words in his lifetime.
Rocky vs Ali would be awesome
Agreed. I'd go with Ali by UD.
Watch there movie fight its great!! Give you some inside how the fight between them could play out!! Its here on CZcams.
@@loveboxinglucky1716 It was a scripted fraudulent match. It gives no inside how their fight would have played out. Marchegiano was 45 then. He wouldn't have lasted 5 rounds against the GOAT
Rocky was only one ali said he would not know would he beat marciano. Ali had alot respect for rocky
@@trainhardeatsleeprepeat189 Ali was just being humble. How many times throughout Ali's career did he say, "I am The Greatest of All Time"? Hundreds if not thousands.
The rock had respect everyone deserves respect at that level he said Noone better than anyone were all human not perfect on can hope for perfection. If you have hope your h
Half way there
236 lb Ike Ibeabuchi holds the Heavyweight record for most punches ever thrown against David Tua. Super Heavyweight Ibeabuchi outworked and showed more heart than little Rocky was ever capable of. No Super Heavyweight of his generation possessed more ability. He was a prodigy. He had amazing power. He had fierce determination and he had no fear of anybody, he believed that nobody could beat him. Ike was a Super Heavyweight with serious power, great speed, chin of iron, a boxer and a brawler, freakish stamina, threw punches in bunches with KO written all over them, and had a ridiculous workrate. It's laughable to even to even think about little 188 lb Marciano vs. 245 lb Ibeabuchi. Ike woulda walked through little Rocky like a hot spoon going through butter.
He was also a “nut case”. Sanity, ring intelligence, and character, are ALSO critical traits of champions. They are used in the ring! Ibeabuchi possessed NONE of these!
@@mariaorsic9763 When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle, and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two warriors stood toe to toe and gave it their all, showing exceptional heart and endurance.
I try my best to envision light heavyweights Charles and Moore fightin "The Tuamanator" and always end up laughing. And "The President" would have walked through cruiserweights Marciano and Walcott as if they were invisible.
Marciano was the best during his little post war era three generations ago but he wouldn't be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to
undefeated 270lb Joyce,
undefeated 263lb Makhmudov,
undefeated 248lb Sanchez,
undefeated 247lb Hrgovic,
undefeated 245lb Anderson,
and undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few.
And then there are so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Holmes Ali Foreman Liston Tyson Tua Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Parker Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney and Wilder.
I could "easily" list another 25.
@@mariaorsic9763 You don't have a clue what Ibeabuchi possessed
Here we go the usual critique.Never heard of Ike but who was he? Was he a champ? Marciano-49-0,185 lbs of perfect conditioned Italian American excellence.
@@carlrball 44 Marciano opponents: We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using US school grades A, B, C, D, and F.
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level)
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level)
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs (F-level)
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs (F-level)
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs (F-level)
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs (F-level)
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs (F-level)
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs (F-level)
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs (F-level)
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs (F-level)
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs (F-level)
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (F-level)
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs (D-level)
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs (F-level)
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs (F-level)
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs (F-level)
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs F-level)
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs F-level)
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (F-level)
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (F-level)
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs (F-level)
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs (F-level)
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs (F-level)
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs (D-level)
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs (D-level)
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs (D-level)
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs (F-level)
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs (D-level)
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-level resume. Problem is he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?
Even Marciano's best 3 opponents Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times. Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0.. WAY TOO MANY HOMELESS WALK-IN D AND F-LEVEL BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR EASY $$$.. OR BEING FORCED TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET OF BOXING DURING THE 50s!!! EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM.. THE DAY AFTER HE RETIRED HE IMMEDIATELY ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS.. CRY AND SCREAM ALL YA WANT BECAUSE IT CANNOT EVER SWEEP IT UNDER THE CARPET!!! IT WAS REAL AND VERY WELL DOCUMENTED SO STOP LIVING IN DENIAL
Bert Sugar and Jimmy Cannon were sports journalist inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for their vast amounts of boxing knowledge. @1:00:00 Bert Sugar said, "It wasn't a great heavyweight division at this time." Then Bert quotes Jimmy Cannon who said, "Because of the mobs influence at the time, Rocky Marciano stands out like a rose in a Garbage Dump."
Mr. Sugar was widely regarded as the “boxing bible," and he just said, "Rocky's era was not great." I trust his opinion, someone who was actually there. Don Turner wasn't there, he never actually saw Marciano fight in person.
Rocky fans love to use positive quote after quote to defend their little hero but totally ignore any and all negative quotes. Just sweep-em under the carpet. Double standard.
Great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS, who was like fodder fed to a pitbull, kinda like when they fed Larry Holmes to an angry Mike Tyson, or allowed Ali to be served up to Holmes.
Society shouldn't care more about person X just because he was a good boxer. Little Marciano was no more important than everyday hard-working people. He only defended his cruiserweight title 6 times against 5 light heavyweights and 1 cruiserweight. That's it? What's the big deal? What's so great about that? For a world Heavyweight champion title holder it don't get any worse than that. And considering his opponents bodyweight it's downright embarrassing.
236 lb Ike Ibeabuchi holds the Heavyweight record for most punches ever thrown against David Tua. Super Heavyweight Ibeabuchi outworked and showed more heart than little Rocky was ever capable of. No Super Heavyweight of his generation possessed more ability. He was a prodigy. He had amazing power. He had fierce determination and he had no fear of anybody, he believed that nobody could beat him. Ike was a Super Heavyweight with serious power, great speed, chin of iron, a boxer and a brawler, freakish stamina, threw punches in bunches with KO written all over them, and had a ridiculous workrate. It's laughable to even to even think about little 188 lb Marciano vs. 245 lb Ibeabuchi. Ike woulda walked through little Rocky like a hot spoon going through butter.
Marciano was beat by 177 pound Ted Lowry and was almost knocked out by him. Lowry could of knocked out Marciano when ever he choose too but held back. Marciano was knocked down by blown up middleweight Archie Moore with one punch. Even though Moore was past his prime and knocked out various times in his prime by guys in his own size. Including being blown away in 1 round by Leonard Morrow a average fighter. It took Marciano 9 or so odd rounds and numerous knock downs to finish him.
Ezzard Charles was on a downward slide in his career. He was 2-2 in his previous 4 bouts before he fought Marciano and something like 10-14 in his bouts after Marciano. Charles was a natural 180 or so odd pound fighter yet he was a go the distance with Marciano in their first fight even though Walcott knocked him out with one punch years before.
Jersey Joe Walcott was past his physical prime. I believe he was pusing 40. Had been fighting for 20 plus years by the time he fought Marciano. He was knocked out various times and lost to various fighters in his prime. Even poor or average fighters beat him and stopped him. Yet a washed up version was still able to floor Marciano and compleletly outbox him until he was stopped. Which is funny how Marciano fans act like stopping a washed up Walcott proves something when your chin gets worse with age and he was stopped easier in his prime.
Joe Louis was a 190 to 200 pound guy in his prime. Known for his class chin and his lack of opponents. When your opponents are called the "bum of the month club" and you are fighting guys who were 3-3 in title fights then we have a problem. Louis was knocked out by Max Schemling a 180 to 90 pound fighter in his prime much easier than Marciano did a washed up version of Louis. Various other guys either hurt or knocked a prime verison of Joe down.
Yet to this very day you Marciano fans who live in your fantasy world still believe he can beat a modern sized heavyweight. He never faced one. Which means he never beat on. But we do know he was almost knocked out by fighters his own size.
Marciano has to be the most overrated, biggest joke in the history of boxing. But as I said I know what kind of fans he has and why they like him.
What a shame little Rocky had flyweight arm reach. 184 is barely cruiserweight. Never in the history of boxing has a 184-lb man beat an elite Super Heavyweight Champion. The tiny 50s are gone and little man syndrome has left the building. Adieu.
Of the 61 fights that Clay/Ali fought 29 wouldn't be allowed nowadays as heavyweight because one or both opponents were below 200 lbs at the time of the bout. In other words they would run as cruiser fights (or below) and Klitschko wouldn't be allowed to stage them. Of the remaining 32 fights Ali lost 4.
I am talking about being a cruiser AT THE TIME OF THE BOUT e.g. Ali vs Jimmy Robinson 177 lbs or Ali vs Alex Miteff (with Ali himself being 188 lbs).
If one would additionally delete FORMER cruisers off Ali's record (= those boxers who boxed below 200 lbs at some point in their career) then Clay/Ali's record would be 13-1.
Take for example Bob Foster vs Ali. Foster himself (56-7) is a non-bummy boxer. That's good. But a win against Foster is WORTHLESS for a heavyweight record comparison. Foster was 180 lbs at the time of the bout. Foster's worthiness in terms Heavyweight (as it is defined nowadays) is ZERO.
Marciano was 184 lbs at the time of the bout. Marciano's worthiness in terms Heavyweight (as it is defined nowadays) is ZERO!!!
Ezzard Charles didn't show a trace of ALS until after he fought Marciano. Bert Sugar is full of it.
*ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."*
*People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.*
*In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."*
*Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Cockell was a Brit who’d turned pro in 1946 at age 17, and by 1949 had matured into a light heavyweight. In reality, he was a fat light heavyweight who'd been knocked out 5 times by opponents far less imposing than Marciano. Cockell who now looked like the Pillsbury Doughboy decided a knife and fork could be his meal ticket to a Big-time payday vs. Marciano.
Joe Walcott was 37 years old when he fought Marciano and Archie Moore was 39. Joe Louis was also 37 years old when they fought. Fighters passed their primes.
It's interesting how people who experienced watching Marciano in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he quit (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's, etc.). There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record.
But the reality is heart and determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats have. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc.
It is also interesting how the same people who want to consider Rocky the greatest Heavyweight because he was undefeated are reluctant to consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound. Why is that? It's just flat lazy to look at 49-0 and conclude that he must be the best ever. Based on that, then you MUST consider Floyd Mayweather the greatest pound for pound fighter of all-time since he's 50-0,, right?
This isn't me folks...someone else is using my name...and I found out who it is....I'll get him!
@@beatlejim64 Cry louder. I can not hear you.
@@beatlejim64 Rocky's numbers may not lie, *but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion.* So let's examine those 13 opponents *(not in order)* that he supposedly *FORCED INTO RETIREMENT* instantaneously.
#1) *Amateur* Lee Epperson - *0 wins 0 losses.* Shameful to even count this as "Forced-Retirement." *Retired from what??* He never even had a career. Epperson was probably *15 years old like Walcott and Moore were* when they first started.
#2) *Amateur* Jimmy Weeks - *0 wins 0 losses.* Embarrassing to count this as "Forced-Retirement." *Probably another 15 year old.*
#3) *Amateur* John Edwards - *1 win 1 loss.* Y'all gonna count this as *"Forced Retirement"* also???
#4) We factually know that ring-worn-n-washed Joe Louis only came back because the *IRS-FORCED him to.* As soon as IRS took Joe's purse for fightin Rocky he was *finally outta there for good!!!!*
#5) Walcott only returned for Marciano-2 for another *easy $250K.* Walcott received the *lions share both fights.* Had Walcott continued fightin he would have only received a *fraction* of that. *$250K back then is $2.6 million today.* Little Rocky never "Forced-Retirement" upon Walcott,, he *"QUIT"!!!!*
#6) Lee Savold age was 36 with *153 bouts.* His manager, *Bill Daily, asked referee Pete Tomasso to stop the uneven match at the end of the sixth round. "The will was there but not the body," said Daily. "I'm going to advise Lee to retire Tomorrow."* Lee didn't even throw a punch, he just stood there like a heavy punching bag. *Completely washed* Savold was only there for his last *Big-Paycheck!!!!*
#7) 254-lb Humphrey *"The-Bum"* Jackson - *4 wins 2 losses* with 28% KO's *F-LEVEL* Jackson never beat a winning fighter. It only took *0:34** seconds* for Jackson to be KO'd in his first fight, and *1:28* in his last fight. The less said about *"The-Bum"* the better.
#8) Jimmy Evans - *18 wins 8 losses* with 50% KO's *F-LEVEL* Evans fought *10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Evans weighed 178 lbs. *Too many light heavyweights.*
#9) Harry Haft - *12 wins 8 losses* with 35% KO's *F-LEVEL* Harry was only 5' 9" 174 lbs. *Isn't this supposed to be the Heavyweight division???*
#10) Gino Buonvino - *24 wins 15 losses* with *10%* KO's *F-LEVEL* Marciano fights Buonvino *"TWICE"* ..why???
#11) Eldridge Eatman - *22 wins 21 losses* with 22% KO's *F-LEVEL* Marciano fought Eatman who had just lost *8 of his last 9 fights* Rocky's handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone decent after coming so close to losing against LaStarza. *"'Eatman proved no opposition for Marciano,'" according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, "'Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT'"* ..Eatman's profession was *paddin records.*
#12) Pete Louthis was 32-13-5 with 35% KO's *F-LEVEL* Pete fought *amateur* Willie James with a *0-0-0 debut* record only 2 fights before facing Marciano. Pete fought *10 amateurs with 0-0-0 debut* records. For Pete's sake he also fought another *20 opponents that had 10 or less fights.*
#13) Carmine Vingo -- 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KO's looks okay until you see *ALL 16* wins came against *F-LEVEL* opponents. The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. *He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."* Rocky's manager Al Weill said the same thing in Marciano's biography 'Unbeaten', *"Vingo hit his head on the flooring, then he went unconscious."*
So it was the plywood flooring that partially paralyzed Vingo, not Marciano's punch. It's no wonder *Vingo said, "I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin*
After all this time i was *mislead* into believing that Vingo was this twenty year old superstar being prepped to become the next Heavyweight champ. Instead he was prepped for *SLAUGHTER JUST TO PLEASE A CROWD --Carmine Vingo*
*IT APPEARS LITTLE ROCKY DID NOT FORCE-RETIRE ""ANY"" OF THESE BOXERS*
@@beatlejim64 44 Marciano opponents: We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good *B-LEVEL* resume. Problem is *he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?*
Even Marciano's *best 3 opponents Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times.* Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. *Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat?* Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. *Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?*
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*WAY TOO MANY HOMELESS WALK-IN F-LEVEL BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR EASY $$$ OR BEING FORCED TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET OF BOXING DURING THE 1950s*
*EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM*
*THEY DIDN'T LITERALLY CONTROL HIM BUT THEY DID TAKE 60% OF ALL HIS EARNINGS AND VERY CAREFULLY PADDED HIS RECORD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE*
The *entire* eastern seaboard was *Italian,* it was *all Italian.* Even the commissioner of boxing was Italian. Al Weill, Rocky's *mafioso manager* and *matchmaker* at the Garden *took* 50% and *all ticket sales* which pushed it closer to *60%.* Marciano had *no choice* but to *comply* or *no contract.*
Enormous criminal empires had been built on the supply of illegal liquor during the Prohibition era. *Italian* Al Capone’s the most infamous among them. When prohibition came to an end in 1933, after more than a decade of lucrative and bloody endeavour for the Mob, *they needed* something *new.* Access to the machinery of *boxing,* a wilfully unfettered anarchy proved remarkably easy to acquire. *Boxing was now fertile ground for the Mafia.*
*They controlled it all,* from the *trainers* and *managers* to the reporting *journalists,* with a combination of *intimidation* and financial backing ensuring *everybody* the mob *wanted* was under *their control.*
*THE DAY AFTER RETIREMENT HE IMMEDIATELY ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS*
@@beatlejim64 Too many Rocky fans *don't do a deep drive into examining his career. That magical 49-0 is the shiny coin so many can not see beyond.* LaStarza was one of Marciano's best opponents, he was 37-0. How many of y'all *actually studied the 37 guys LaStarza fought?* Well *here they are:* We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.*
#37) Cesar Brion - 49 wins 11 losses with 36% KOs *C-LEVEL* looks okay until ya *see how many of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians*
Walter Hafer - 22 wins 26 losses with 26% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jackie Lyons - 32 wins 24 losses with 23% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Carollo - 36 wins 17 losses with 16% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Weinberg - 44 wins 22 losses with 34% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Gene Gosney - 14 wins 5 losses with 42% KOs *C-minus-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Mike Jacobs - 14 wins 16 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Mel McKinney - 8 wins 10 losses with 5% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Teddy Georges - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Oscar Goode - 43 wins 23 losses with 20% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tony Gangemi - 21 wins 18 losses with 26% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Benny Rusk - 20 wins 17 losses with 27% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred McManus - 18 wins 19 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Holloway - 2 wins 11 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Claude McClintock - 1 win 9 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Steve King - 21 wins 11 losses with 17% KOs *D to F-LEVEL*
Jimmy White - 9 wins 17 losses with 11% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Frankie Reed - 2 wins 14 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Mike Belluscio - 15 wins 10 losses with 37% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Luther McMillan - 13 wins 19 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Ramsey - 8 wins 12 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lorne McCarthy - 2 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Zeke Brown - 0 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jim Johnson - 3 wins 22 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Dodd - 8 wins 12 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Al Zappala - 20 wins 27 losses with 9% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Zack Johnson - 3 wins 7 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Dave Glanton - 1 win 13 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
*Lewis Watson, the boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition, saying: “Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition."*
*"Promoters lookin for a way to get their prizefighters a big payoff will first invest thousands of dollars in padding his numbers against truly horrendous opponents. A guy who’s undefeated at 37-0, for example, might not be any better than a more seasoned boxer with a lousy record."* -- The Ring Magazine
*THE WORST 37-0 EVER.* Roland was well protected and very carefully managed. There are so many names from his era conspicuously missing from his record. LaStarza's only claim to fame was having lost a close decision to Marciano. *End of story.*
"His reputation was built on the first Rocky fight. Although he had a long winning streak at the beginning of his career, there are no tough names on his record. After the first Marciano fight he could have forced the issue by meeting top fighters. He refused fights with Charles, Moore, Clarence Henry, Bob Baker etc. Lost and avenged to overstuffed light heavy Dan Bucceroni and to light heavy Rocky Jones and looked terrible against Jones in the rematch. The Jones win and a victory over the faded Rex Layne gave him the credentials to meet Rocky for the title. A fight I am told Rocky was more intent on giving Roland a beating for all of the talk that he "was afraid" to meet LaStarza again. Look at LaStarza's record there are no names on it except for Marciano. I have the complete film of the Jones rematch and believe me LaStarza looked terrible. LaStarza NEVER fought a dangerous opponent except Marciano and thats a fact if you know any of the fighters from his era. I am not saying that LaStarza was a coward but he (or, excuse me, his management) refused matches with Henry, Charles, Baker, and Archie Moore. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much, saying he wouldn't take those matches because he "deserved" a rematch with Marciano and thought he was offered the other matches by the IBC only because they were trying to knock him out of "his rightful shot at Marciano." Boo Hoo Hoo. Real, confident fighters go out and prove they deserve their shot by beating dangerous fighters to force a showdown with a champion." -- *Chuck Hasson Boxing Historian and Philly Boxing Founder*
LaStarza was coming off a loss and a win against 14-9-2 Rocky Jones. Layne had lost to the unrated 12-2 Willie James and a light heavyweight contender. The winner of this garbage gets a world title shot against a guy who already beat BOTH of them. *Heavyweight contenders today aren't rated at the top after they lose to unranked journeymen and light heavyweights.*
*LaStarza vs. Layne (uploader William Walker)* reminds me of watching two midwest *club fighters* fightin a *4* rounder on an old ESPN card from Muncie, In. *Two guys who were not well schooled, standing in front of each other acting like they were insulted if the other guy missed them with a punch. A lot of right hand leads, a lot of jabs with the rear foot leaving the canvas, little/no counter punching, just two guys willing to get hit but showing little boxing skill.* Look how bad Rex Layne swings and misses. *What an oaf.*
Even if Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
This level, that level. This angle, that angle. Marciano 😂 🥊
He knew his craft.
Lou Duva was asked "what do you think about Ezzard Charles" @59:48 he said, "remember he was a Light heavyweight that moved up." Of course he did becuz there were no genuine Heavyweights to stop him. Name ""ONE"" topnotch prime 200+lbs Heavyweight Marciano fought??? The answer would be ""ZERO""!!!!
After little white Rocky abruptly 'Quit' boxing during his 'Prime' he immediately abandoned his family to sleep with thousands, then left them penniless. What a soab - Classy guy though.
Marciano's style will play into Liston’s giant hands, as it will violate one of boxing’s holy grail rules and that is, “never slug with a bigger slugger.” Especially when that slugger’s name is Sonny Liston; simply put Liston does it all better than Marciano and also has height, weight and major reach advantage. I can see Liston’s jab being an even more formidable weapon than usual in this matchup, as he won’t have to go looking for Marciano. To put the concept of reach into perspective, you have Liston with a monster 84” reach compared to little Marciano’s 67” reach- this would be decisive. I would favour Liston in a big way. Rocky gets flattened faster than Floyd Patterson.
After little white Rocky abruptly 'Quit' boxing during his 'Prime' he immediately abandoned his family to sleep with thousands, then left them penniless. What a soab - Classy guy though.
Little Rocky's 184-lb punching power does not come close to a 245-lb to 275-lb Ibeabuchi, Lewis, Vitali, Foreman or Fury type of Heavier Weighted Power which effortlessly produces more torque and leverage. If one had to break-up a large boulder would he use an 8-oz ball peen hammer or an 8-lb sledgehammer???
SIZE MATTERS otherwise boxing wouldn't have 18 different weight classes. Featherweights would be fightin middleweights and cruisers would be fightin Super Heavies. There are no height divisions, age divisions or reach division, because weight at heavyweight boxing is one of the most important factor.
Super Heavyweights are increasing because Eastern European fighters are now allowed to fight in USA since around 2000 (Hall of Fame Klitschko brothers dominated Heavyweight boxing for TWENTY years) and international travel is much easier compared to 30 40 50 years ago.
Even a new Bridgerweight division between 200 and 224 lbs was recently added because too many 215 lb heavyweights complained.
We'll never-ever see tiny-cruiserweights 181-lb Charles or 184-lb Marciano as Heavyweight Champions again!
Boxing has evolved , *SIZE MATTERS LIKE IT OR NOT*
What about washed-up 40 year old Louis and nobody cares about washed-up light heavyweights Charles Moore and Walcott. Authentic Heavyweights King Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ali Holmes Foreman Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Dokes Grant Povetkin Whyte Ruiz Parker Ortiz Wilder Wladimir Tua Tyson would have OBLITERATED those tiny light heavyweights.
Regarding cherry picking quotes praising Marciano, you honestly don't think I could find twice as many narratives about the greatness of Ali, Louis, Foreman, Holmes, Lennox, Vitali, Tyson, Frazier, Wladimir, Holyfield, Fury or Ibeabuchi??? I don't have a problem if Marciano is your favorite fighter, but you're heading down a slippery slope if you're trying to make the case for him being the best "Heavyweight" ever especially considering he was barely a cruiserweight with flyweight arm reach. The reality is little Rocky's heart-n-determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats had. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc.
John Durant, author of The Heavyweight Champions, wrote in 1971 (p. 123): "Critics do not rate Rocky with the great ones, like Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney and Louis. He never faced top fighters like they did. It was not Rocky's fault, of course, that there was a lack of talent when he was boxing." *So with all that being said how the heck does a little cruiserweight rank as the 3rd or 4th greatest Super Heavyweight of all-time??? B•••💩 that's how!*
Wow you read in a book that since Marciano trained hard that means he couldn't lose right? Marciano had a strong desire to win? So i guess Frazier wanted Foreman to kick his butt right? Because Frazier had no desire to win....they all wanted to lose. Only Marciano had a desire to win right?
I wish you would read a book on mathematics so you would be able to calculate winning percentages? Why can't you do that?
So Fury, Lewis, Vitali, and Foreman all would have lost if they fought the hyped-up tomato cans little Marciano fought? Give me a break. LaStarza, Savold, Cockell, and Matthews would be humiliated in the real Heavyweight world.
You white people should know the truth about Rocky, he was homosexual. Sorry if that hurts, but it shouldn't. He had to stay in the closet, it was just the way of the times. Today people like Rocky and me don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed. When I came out it was like taking a huge weight off of my shoulders. But don't wait like I did, I have a wife and kid that I would never had if I had not succumbed to the pressure of trying to act normal. I love Margot, but I'm not in love with her, and she understands, we stay together for our daughter. All three of us share the much of the same clothes, make-up, and interests. We're a pretty happy family.
Y'all Rocky fan's write a lot of interesting stuff but ya never address the actual issue of bodyweight so your “research” gets you no-where. Are you seriously suggesting Charles and Moore were anywhere near their natural fighting weight? *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?*
People describes little white Marciano as being so ferocious that he basically killed all 49 of his opponents in the ring. Marciano vids are filled with fan boys exaggerated-hyperbole-comments about Rocky's power. But what people fails to tell everyone is that LaStarza (with all his "Broken Bones" and "Ruptured Blood Vessels") simply had minor surgery and was fightin exactly 6 months later. Layne only had 4 broken teeth and was fightin exactly 3 months later - Wiki. These are all normal boxing injuries. Notice how these Marciano lovers never wanna discuss his injuries? Like 2 confirmed nose surgeries, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used like a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around, here, you hit me 5 times and I'll hit you back one time, Duh.
"If Marciano hits you on the jaw, flush, you go..........you just go." -- Dr. Ferdie Pacheco
Rocky fans always use his "0" as their main argument to prop him up. I suggest you research Marciano's opponents, analyze their records, review who he beat. For example have you even bothered to look at the guys LaStarza beat and their records before fighting Marciano?